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Should Pope Francis Be Arrested

Impartial
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1/15/2015 10:49:13 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
Pope Francis says those who ridicule others' religions should 'expect a punch'

For the leader of a Church to advocate violence against ridicule of his religion, he is essentially giving Catholics worldwide the goahead to retailate against ridicule of their faith. Who else thinks this is irresponsible and worthy of insighting violence (a crime in the UK)?
To believe is to know nothing.
AnDoctuir
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1/15/2015 10:51:59 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
I would imagine he was talking about the Charlie Hebdo incident, and that it was a caution rather than an incitement. Hey, religion is a touchy subject.
johnlubba
Posts: 2,892
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1/15/2015 11:29:07 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 1/15/2015 10:49:13 AM, Impartial wrote:
Pope Francis says those who ridicule others' religions should 'expect a punch'

For the leader of a Church to advocate violence against ridicule of his religion, he is essentially giving Catholics worldwide the goahead to retailate against ridicule of their faith. Who else thinks this is irresponsible and worthy of insighting violence (a crime in the UK)?

Source?
Impartial
Posts: 375
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1/15/2015 11:40:11 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 1/15/2015 11:29:07 AM, johnlubba wrote:
At 1/15/2015 10:49:13 AM, Impartial wrote:
Pope Francis says those who ridicule others' religions should 'expect a punch'

For the leader of a Church to advocate violence against ridicule of his religion, he is essentially giving Catholics worldwide the goahead to retailate against ridicule of their faith. Who else thinks this is irresponsible and worthy of insighting violence (a crime in the UK)?


Source?

Sorry;

http://www.independent.co.uk...
To believe is to know nothing.
johnlubba
Posts: 2,892
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1/15/2015 12:09:01 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 1/15/2015 11:40:11 AM, Impartial wrote:
At 1/15/2015 11:29:07 AM, johnlubba wrote:
At 1/15/2015 10:49:13 AM, Impartial wrote:
Pope Francis says those who ridicule others' religions should 'expect a punch'

For the leader of a Church to advocate violence against ridicule of his religion, he is essentially giving Catholics worldwide the goahead to retailate against ridicule of their faith. Who else thinks this is irresponsible and worthy of insighting violence (a crime in the UK)?


Source?

Sorry;

http://www.independent.co.uk...

Thanks, It's a rather sensitive topic, And I in no way condone the shootings, But if you are prepared to insult somebody's faith, then I can also see how that could be upsetting,

I think the best thing is to keep it to yourself, We wouldn't allow people to openly insult our mother or father. And if we was to do that, then I can see how it can incite hatred.

Conclusion

Both are wrong and the shooters to a higher degree.
Impartial
Posts: 375
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1/15/2015 12:45:10 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 1/15/2015 12:09:01 PM, johnlubba wrote:
At 1/15/2015 11:40:11 AM, Impartial wrote:
At 1/15/2015 11:29:07 AM, johnlubba wrote:
At 1/15/2015 10:49:13 AM, Impartial wrote:
Pope Francis says those who ridicule others' religions should 'expect a punch'

For the leader of a Church to advocate violence against ridicule of his religion, he is essentially giving Catholics worldwide the goahead to retailate against ridicule of their faith. Who else thinks this is irresponsible and worthy of insighting violence (a crime in the UK)?


Source?

Sorry;

http://www.independent.co.uk...


Thanks, It's a rather sensitive topic, And I in no way condone the shootings, But if you are prepared to insult somebody's faith, then I can also see how that could be upsetting,


Simply put, free speech allows us to ridicule someone's religion. It isn't hatred, it isn't inciting violence, it's on opinion. When I get told I'm going to Hell for being an atheist, it annoys me but I brush it off. I am in my rights to offend and be offenced, equally.

I think the best thing is to keep it to yourself, We wouldn't allow people to openly insult our mother or father. And if we was to do that, then I can see how it can incite hatred.


Inciting hatred is a whole new ball game. I can mock someone's beliefs and offend them but that doesn't mean I hate them or condone violence against them.

Conclusion

Both are wrong and the shooters to a higher degree.

I conclude that the Pope was wrong to say such ridiculous comments, especially after what happened in Paris. This is someone who a lot of people look up to and listen to. Whatever happened to turning the other cheek or loving thy neighbour? In the past I would have been burnt at the stake for declaring myself an atheist. We've moved on from that.
To believe is to know nothing.
johnlubba
Posts: 2,892
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1/15/2015 1:06:33 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 1/15/2015 12:45:10 PM, Impartial wrote:
At 1/15/2015 12:09:01 PM, johnlubba wrote:
At 1/15/2015 11:40:11 AM, Impartial wrote:
At 1/15/2015 11:29:07 AM, johnlubba wrote:
At 1/15/2015 10:49:13 AM, Impartial wrote:
Pope Francis says those who ridicule others' religions should 'expect a punch'

For the leader of a Church to advocate violence against ridicule of his religion, he is essentially giving Catholics worldwide the goahead to retailate against ridicule of their faith. Who else thinks this is irresponsible and worthy of insighting violence (a crime in the UK)?


Source?

Sorry;

http://www.independent.co.uk...


Thanks, It's a rather sensitive topic, And I in no way condone the shootings, But if you are prepared to insult somebody's faith, then I can also see how that could be upsetting,


Simply put, free speech allows us to ridicule someone's religion. It isn't hatred, it isn't inciting violence, it's on opinion. When I get told I'm going to Hell for being an atheist, it annoys me but I brush it off. I am in my rights to offend and be offenced, equally.

Well if you choose to openly offend people and their beliefs, then also be prepared to expect consequences, I myself am a neutral, But it doesn't take rocket science to know that people hold their faiths very dearly, and they will retaliate if offended.

I think the best thing is to keep it to yourself, We wouldn't allow people to openly insult our mother or father. And if we was to do that, then I can see how it can incite hatred.


Inciting hatred is a whole new ball game. I can mock someone's beliefs and offend them but that doesn't mean I hate them or condone violence against them.

Conclusion

Both are wrong and the shooters to a higher degree.

I conclude that the Pope was wrong to say such ridiculous comments, especially after what happened in Paris

I agree, That type of response seems childish to me, he could have been more practical.

. This is someone who a lot of people look up to and listen to. Whatever happened to turning the other cheek or loving thy neighbour?

I agree

In the past I would have been burnt at the stake for declaring myself an atheist. We've moved on from that.

Declaring yourself an atheists, is not really offending anybody, it's just your personal belief, I don't think you should be punished or even ridiculed for it, But if you was to be offended or the entire atheist community was, then I expect somewhere someone, would retaliate.

I'm just saying that I think it's best and more mature not to offend anybody, especially about their faith.
Juan_Pablo
Posts: 2,052
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1/15/2015 1:20:14 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 1/15/2015 10:51:59 AM, AnDoctuir wrote:
I would imagine he was talking about the Charlie Hebdo incident, and that it was a caution rather than an incitement. Hey, religion is a touchy subject.

Agreed. Even though I do cherish and support freedom of speech, I'm also a strong proponent of common sense. Going out of your way to rip apart another religion--without being critical of your own beliefs--will at the very least encourage nasty opinions about you. People that are very critical of other religions and that go out of their way to destroy them through public opinion do so at their own risk.

After all, humans are highly volatile creatures.
Juan_Pablo
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1/15/2015 1:21:29 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 1/15/2015 1:20:14 PM, Juan_Pablo wrote:
At 1/15/2015 10:51:59 AM, AnDoctuir wrote:
I would imagine he was talking about the Charlie Hebdo incident, and that it was a caution rather than an incitement. Hey, religion is a touchy subject.

Agreed. Even though I do cherish and support freedom of speech, I'm also a strong proponent of common sense. Going out of your way to rip apart another religion--without being critical of your own beliefs--will at the very least encourage nasty opinions about you. People that are very critical of other religions and that go out of their way to destroy them through public opinion do so at their own risk.

After all, humans are highly volatile creatures.


Correction:

After all, humans are highly emotional volatile creatures.
Impartial
Posts: 375
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1/15/2015 1:27:42 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 1/15/2015 1:06:33 PM, johnlubba wrote:
At 1/15/2015 12:45:10 PM, Impartial wrote:
At 1/15/2015 12:09:01 PM, johnlubba wrote:
At 1/15/2015 11:40:11 AM, Impartial wrote:
At 1/15/2015 11:29:07 AM, johnlubba wrote:
At 1/15/2015 10:49:13 AM, Impartial wrote:
Pope Francis says those who ridicule others' religions should 'expect a punch'

For the leader of a Church to advocate violence against ridicule of his religion, he is essentially giving Catholics worldwide the goahead to retailate against ridicule of their faith. Who else thinks this is irresponsible and worthy of insighting violence (a crime in the UK)?


Source?

Sorry;

http://www.independent.co.uk...


Thanks, It's a rather sensitive topic, And I in no way condone the shootings, But if you are prepared to insult somebody's faith, then I can also see how that could be upsetting,


Simply put, free speech allows us to ridicule someone's religion. It isn't hatred, it isn't inciting violence, it's on opinion. When I get told I'm going to Hell for being an atheist, it annoys me but I brush it off. I am in my rights to offend and be offenced, equally.

Well if you choose to openly offend people and their beliefs, then also be prepared to expect consequences, I myself am a neutral, But it doesn't take rocket science to know that people hold their faiths very dearly, and they will retaliate if offended.

I think the best thing is to keep it to yourself, We wouldn't allow people to openly insult our mother or father. And if we was to do that, then I can see how it can incite hatred.


Inciting hatred is a whole new ball game. I can mock someone's beliefs and offend them but that doesn't mean I hate them or condone violence against them.

Conclusion

Both are wrong and the shooters to a higher degree.

I conclude that the Pope was wrong to say such ridiculous comments, especially after what happened in Paris

I agree, That type of response seems childish to me, he could have been more practical.


I don't think 'childish' is acceptable from someone in his position. A Catholic could quite easily listen to what he said and suddenly think it's alright to use violence against people with opposing views. It could potentially be disastrous.


. This is someone who a lot of people look up to and listen to. Whatever happened to turning the other cheek or loving thy neighbour?

I agree





In the past I would have been burnt at the stake for declaring myself an atheist. We've moved on from that.

Declaring yourself an atheists, is not really offending anybody, it's just your personal belief, I don't think you should be punished or even ridiculed for it,

My friend, that is what used to happen. To be an atheist is to say that you do not believe and that was punishable by death.

But if you was to be offended or the entire atheist community was, then I expect somewhere someone, would retaliate.

Why would you expect that? And if it happened, would it be justified? I assume you agree with me when I say that no it definitely wouldn't.


I'm just saying that I think it's best and more mature not to offend anybody, especially about their faith.

Unfortunately maturity goes out of the window when someone wields an AK-47 and murders people. Sometimes it is necessary to offend. It is not acceptable to use violence in this way and that view is shared by most people. The timing of the Pope's comments imply that Charlie Ebdoe somehow got what they deserved and it was something to be expected.
To believe is to know nothing.
Emilrose
Posts: 2,479
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1/15/2015 1:31:28 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 1/15/2015 12:09:01 PM, johnlubba wrote:
At 1/15/2015 11:40:11 AM, Impartial wrote:
At 1/15/2015 11:29:07 AM, johnlubba wrote:
At 1/15/2015 10:49:13 AM, Impartial wrote:
Pope Francis says those who ridicule others' religions should 'expect a punch'

For the leader of a Church to advocate violence against ridicule of his religion, he is essentially giving Catholics worldwide the goahead to retailate against ridicule of their faith. Who else thinks this is irresponsible and worthy of insighting violence (a crime in the UK)?


Source?

Sorry;

http://www.independent.co.uk...


Thanks, It's a rather sensitive topic, And I in no way condone the shootings, But if you are prepared to insult somebody's faith, then I can also see how that could be upsetting,


What people seem to be misinterpreting is that Charlie Hebdo did not actually "insult" the faith, literally the only thing it did that caused "offense" to these Muslims is print a few satirical pictures. Both Judaism and Christianity have also featured in their publications, as well as the French president who is particularly ridiculed. Would that give him the right to kill 12 people? No. Just because religion is involved, we should not be making excuses.

I think the best thing is to keep it to yourself, We wouldn't allow people to openly insult our mother or father. And if we was to do that, then I can see how it can incite hatred.

Why? There is such a thing as freedom of expression (not sure what the policy is on that in the U.S) so if a newspaper wants to draw cartoons it is perfectly entitled to. France has a rich history of satire and there's no valid reason it should stop that.
As a Jew, I've seen images I could have easily taken offense at (such as cartoons of prophet Moses, Orthodox Jews, etc.) in Charlie Hebdo but I would never take it upon myself to go and shoot innocent people, nor would I state that the artists/writers are "wrong" and try to take away their right to freedom of speech.

Conclusion

Both are wrong and the shooters to a higher degree.

The only people whom are at fault are the terrorists. We live in a civilized society where there is absolutely no excuse for such an attack.
Commentator on a picture with David Cameron and a Cat: 'Amazing what you can achieve with photoshop these days. I'm sure that used to be a pig.'

Commentator on Hillary Clinton: 'If Clinton is now what passes for progressive, maybe this country deserves Trump.'

Commentator on British parliament: 'All that talent in one place, where is Ebola when you need it?'

John Kerry on words: 'These aren't just words, folks.'
Impartial
Posts: 375
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1/15/2015 1:37:02 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 1/15/2015 1:20:14 PM, Juan_Pablo wrote:
At 1/15/2015 10:51:59 AM, AnDoctuir wrote:
I would imagine he was talking about the Charlie Hebdo incident, and that it was a caution rather than an incitement. Hey, religion is a touchy subject.

Agreed. Even though I do cherish and support freedom of speech, I'm also a strong proponent of common sense. Going out of your way to rip apart another religion--without being critical of your own beliefs--will at the very least encourage nasty opinions about you. People that are very critical of other religions and that go out of their way to destroy them through public opinion do so at their own risk.

After all, humans are highly volatile creatures.


This isn't about perceptions of common sense or revenge. It's about standing up to people who use violence to stop others from mocking what they believe. It isn't acceptable. You have the right to offend without being frightened for you life. And if you are offended then my advice is to man up.

It worries me when people make excuses for these murderers and people like them.
To believe is to know nothing.
johnlubba
Posts: 2,892
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1/15/2015 1:37:33 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 1/15/2015 1:27:42 PM, Impartial wrote:
At 1/15/2015 1:06:33 PM, johnlubba wrote:
At 1/15/2015 12:45:10 PM, Impartial wrote:
At 1/15/2015 12:09:01 PM, johnlubba wrote:
At 1/15/2015 11:40:11 AM, Impartial wrote:
At 1/15/2015 11:29:07 AM, johnlubba wrote:
At 1/15/2015 10:49:13 AM, Impartial wrote:
Pope Francis says those who ridicule others' religions should 'expect a punch'

For the leader of a Church to advocate violence against ridicule of his religion, he is essentially giving Catholics worldwide the goahead to retailate against ridicule of their faith. Who else thinks this is irresponsible and worthy of insighting violence (a crime in the UK)?


Source?

Sorry;

http://www.independent.co.uk...


Thanks, It's a rather sensitive topic, And I in no way condone the shootings, But if you are prepared to insult somebody's faith, then I can also see how that could be upsetting,


Simply put, free speech allows us to ridicule someone's religion. It isn't hatred, it isn't inciting violence, it's on opinion. When I get told I'm going to Hell for being an atheist, it annoys me but I brush it off. I am in my rights to offend and be offenced, equally.

Well if you choose to openly offend people and their beliefs, then also be prepared to expect consequences, I myself am a neutral, But it doesn't take rocket science to know that people hold their faiths very dearly, and they will retaliate if offended.

I think the best thing is to keep it to yourself, We wouldn't allow people to openly insult our mother or father. And if we was to do that, then I can see how it can incite hatred.


Inciting hatred is a whole new ball game. I can mock someone's beliefs and offend them but that doesn't mean I hate them or condone violence against them.

Conclusion

Both are wrong and the shooters to a higher degree.

I conclude that the Pope was wrong to say such ridiculous comments, especially after what happened in Paris

I agree, That type of response seems childish to me, he could have been more practical.


I don't think 'childish' is acceptable from someone in his position. A Catholic could quite easily listen to what he said and suddenly think it's alright to use violence against people with opposing views. It could potentially be disastrous.


. This is someone who a lot of people look up to and listen to. Whatever happened to turning the other cheek or loving thy neighbour?

I agree





In the past I would have been burnt at the stake for declaring myself an atheist. We've moved on from that.

Declaring yourself an atheists, is not really offending anybody, it's just your personal belief, I don't think you should be punished or even ridiculed for it,

My friend, that is what used to happen. To be an atheist is to say that you do not believe and that was punishable by death.

I know, I am just saying, I don't agree anybody should be punished or even ridiculed.


But if you was to be offended or the entire atheist community was, then I expect somewhere someone, would retaliate.

Why would you expect that? And if it happened, would it be justified? I assume you agree with me when I say that no it definitely wouldn't.

No I can not say I agree, humans are very emotional creatures and violence can erupt for less offenses than that.


I'm just saying that I think it's best and more mature not to offend anybody, especially about their faith.

Unfortunately maturity goes out of the window when someone wields an AK-47 and murders people. Sometimes it is necessary to offend. It is not acceptable to use violence in this way and that view is shared by most people. The timing of the Pope's comments imply that Charlie Ebdoe somehow got what they deserved and it was something to be expected.

unfortunately we do not live in a perfect moral society and people retaliate for the slightest of offenses, if you are will to mock others, then don't be surprised when they retaliate.

I am not condoning any violence of any sort, I am just stating the way things are, I don't agree that people should be allowed to freely offend others and think they should not expect consequences, why? because human beings are crazy.
AnDoctuir
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1/15/2015 1:42:25 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 1/15/2015 1:31:28 PM, Emilrose wrote:
There is such a thing as freedom of expression

Freedom to defame something someone else holds sacred is a ridiculous thing to vie for. Islam is insane for reasons other than denying freedom of expression. I mean, would you like it if some fellow were allowed to follow you around, no matter what, slandering you at the top of his voice all day every day? No, I doubt it.
Juan_Pablo
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1/15/2015 1:45:56 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 1/15/2015 1:37:02 PM, Impartial wrote:
At 1/15/2015 1:20:14 PM, Juan_Pablo wrote:
At 1/15/2015 10:51:59 AM, AnDoctuir wrote:
I would imagine he was talking about the Charlie Hebdo incident, and that it was a caution rather than an incitement. Hey, religion is a touchy subject.

Agreed. Even though I do cherish and support freedom of speech, I'm also a strong proponent of common sense. Going out of your way to rip apart another religion--without being critical of your own beliefs--will at the very least encourage nasty opinions about you. People that are very critical of other religions and that go out of their way to destroy them through public opinion do so at their own risk.

After all, humans are highly volatile creatures.


This isn't about perceptions of common sense or revenge. It's about standing up to people who use violence to stop others from mocking what they believe. It isn't acceptable. You have the right to offend without being frightened for you life. And if you are offended then my advice is to man up.

It worries me when people make excuses for these murderers and people like them.

Yes, we do have the right to say what we please. But we must also remember that our rights exist as long as people decide respect and defend them. Don't abandon common sense simply because you have a right to do something. You need both in this crazy world.
Impartial
Posts: 375
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1/15/2015 1:46:45 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 1/15/2015 1:37:33 PM, johnlubba wrote:
At 1/15/2015 1:27:42 PM, Impartial wrote:
At 1/15/2015 1:06:33 PM, johnlubba wrote:
At 1/15/2015 12:45:10 PM, Impartial wrote:
At 1/15/2015 12:09:01 PM, johnlubba wrote:
At 1/15/2015 11:40:11 AM, Impartial wrote:
At 1/15/2015 11:29:07 AM, johnlubba wrote:
At 1/15/2015 10:49:13 AM, Impartial wrote:
Pope Francis says those who ridicule others' religions should 'expect a punch'

For the leader of a Church to advocate violence against ridicule of his religion, he is essentially giving Catholics worldwide the goahead to retailate against ridicule of their faith. Who else thinks this is irresponsible and worthy of insighting violence (a crime in the UK)?


Source?

Sorry;

http://www.independent.co.uk...


Thanks, It's a rather sensitive topic, And I in no way condone the shootings, But if you are prepared to insult somebody's faith, then I can also see how that could be upsetting,


Simply put, free speech allows us to ridicule someone's religion. It isn't hatred, it isn't inciting violence, it's on opinion. When I get told I'm going to Hell for being an atheist, it annoys me but I brush it off. I am in my rights to offend and be offenced, equally.

Well if you choose to openly offend people and their beliefs, then also be prepared to expect consequences, I myself am a neutral, But it doesn't take rocket science to know that people hold their faiths very dearly, and they will retaliate if offended.

I think the best thing is to keep it to yourself, We wouldn't allow people to openly insult our mother or father. And if we was to do that, then I can see how it can incite hatred.


Inciting hatred is a whole new ball game. I can mock someone's beliefs and offend them but that doesn't mean I hate them or condone violence against them.

Conclusion

Both are wrong and the shooters to a higher degree.

I conclude that the Pope was wrong to say such ridiculous comments, especially after what happened in Paris

I agree, That type of response seems childish to me, he could have been more practical.


I don't think 'childish' is acceptable from someone in his position. A Catholic could quite easily listen to what he said and suddenly think it's alright to use violence against people with opposing views. It could potentially be disastrous.


. This is someone who a lot of people look up to and listen to. Whatever happened to turning the other cheek or loving thy neighbour?

I agree





In the past I would have been burnt at the stake for declaring myself an atheist. We've moved on from that.

Declaring yourself an atheists, is not really offending anybody, it's just your personal belief, I don't think you should be punished or even ridiculed for it,

My friend, that is what used to happen. To be an atheist is to say that you do not believe and that was punishable by death.

I know, I am just saying, I don't agree anybody should be punished or even ridiculed.



But if you was to be offended or the entire atheist community was, then I expect somewhere someone, would retaliate.

Why would you expect that? And if it happened, would it be justified? I assume you agree with me when I say that no it definitely wouldn't.

No I can not say I agree, humans are very emotional creatures and violence can erupt for less offenses than that.

That doesn't make it right. I'd like to think we are civilised creatures.

I'm just saying that I think it's best and more mature not to offend anybody, especially about their faith.

Unfortunately maturity goes out of the window when someone wields an AK-47 and murders people. Sometimes it is necessary to offend. It is not acceptable to use violence in this way and that view is shared by most people. The timing of the Pope's comments imply that Charlie Ebdoe somehow got what they deserved and it was something to be expected.

unfortunately we do not live in a perfect moral society and people retaliate for the slightest of offenses, if you are will to mock others, then don't be surprised when they retaliate.

That my apply in the school playground but not in the real world. Again, retaliation of the nature we saw in Paris, is not right.

I am not condoning any violence of any sort, I am just stating the way things are, I don't agree that people should be allowed to freely offend others and think they should not expect consequences, why? because human beings are crazy.

What if someone says something absolutely ridiculous, like the Pope did? I'm not allowed to say he's wrong? I can't disagree with him and justify why I think he's talking nonsense?

How on earth would society progress if we weren't allowed to speak our minds, out of fear that we'd get arrested for hurting someone's feelings?
To believe is to know nothing.
Juan_Pablo
Posts: 2,052
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1/15/2015 1:47:10 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 1/15/2015 1:45:56 PM, Juan_Pablo wrote:
At 1/15/2015 1:37:02 PM, Impartial wrote:
At 1/15/2015 1:20:14 PM, Juan_Pablo wrote:
At 1/15/2015 10:51:59 AM, AnDoctuir wrote:
I would imagine he was talking about the Charlie Hebdo incident, and that it was a caution rather than an incitement. Hey, religion is a touchy subject.

Agreed. Even though I do cherish and support freedom of speech, I'm also a strong proponent of common sense. Going out of your way to rip apart another religion--without being critical of your own beliefs--will at the very least encourage nasty opinions about you. People that are very critical of other religions and that go out of their way to destroy them through public opinion do so at their own risk.

After all, humans are highly volatile creatures.


This isn't about perceptions of common sense or revenge. It's about standing up to people who use violence to stop others from mocking what they believe. It isn't acceptable. You have the right to offend without being frightened for you life. And if you are offended then my advice is to man up.

It worries me when people make excuses for these murderers and people like them.

Yes, we do have the right to say what we please. But we must also remember that our rights exist as long as people decide respect and defend them. Don't abandon common sense simply because you have a right to do something. You need both in this crazy world.

Correction:

"But we must also remember that our rights exist as long as people decide to respect and defend them. Don't abandon common sense simply because you have a right to do something. You need both in this crazy world."
AnDoctuir
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1/15/2015 1:47:11 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
These are petty antagonisms, with no need for making, and we're all aware what they get us. I've often fought dudes who said things about my mother. Haven't you? (You probably haven't Emilrose, but still.)
johnlubba
Posts: 2,892
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1/15/2015 1:47:42 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 1/15/2015 1:31:28 PM, Emilrose wrote:
At 1/15/2015 12:09:01 PM, johnlubba wrote:
At 1/15/2015 11:40:11 AM, Impartial wrote:
At 1/15/2015 11:29:07 AM, johnlubba wrote:
At 1/15/2015 10:49:13 AM, Impartial wrote:
Pope Francis says those who ridicule others' religions should 'expect a punch'

For the leader of a Church to advocate violence against ridicule of his religion, he is essentially giving Catholics worldwide the goahead to retailate against ridicule of their faith. Who else thinks this is irresponsible and worthy of insighting violence (a crime in the UK)?


Source?

Sorry;

http://www.independent.co.uk...


Thanks, It's a rather sensitive topic, And I in no way condone the shootings, But if you are prepared to insult somebody's faith, then I can also see how that could be upsetting,


What people seem to be misinterpreting is that Charlie Hebdo did not actually "insult" the faith, literally the only thing it did that caused "offense" to these Muslims is print a few satirical pictures. Both Judaism and Christianity have also featured in their publications, as well as the French president who is particularly ridiculed. Would that give him the right to kill 12 people? No. Just because religion is involved, we should not be making excuses.

Why did you choose to skip past the point where I stated that I am not condoning the violence, All I am stating are some relevant truths, Many comics and comedians openly state that they will not make jokes about Islam or it's prophet, because they are aware that people take serious offense by it. That's all, I myself wouldn't want to either, simply from not wanting to incite any consequence.


I think the best thing is to keep it to yourself, We wouldn't allow people to openly insult our mother or father. And if we was to do that, then I can see how it can incite hatred.

Why? There is such a thing as freedom of expression (not sure what the policy is on that in the U.S) so if a newspaper wants to draw cartoons it is perfectly entitled to. France has a rich history of satire and there's no valid reason it should stop that.
As a Jew, I've seen images I could have easily taken offense at (such as cartoons of prophet Moses, Orthodox Jews, etc.) in Charlie Hebdo but I would never take it upon myself to go and shoot innocent people, nor would I state that the artists/writers are "wrong" and try to take away their right to freedom of speech.

Conclusion

Both are wrong and the shooters to a higher degree.

The only people whom are at fault are the terrorists. We live in a civilized society where there is absolutely no excuse for such an attack.

We live in a civilized society, really? have you had a look at the serious crime rates in the UK, Trust me, many people are not civilized, any why should we draw satirical cartoons anyway, other than to mock? Of what use is it?
johnlubba
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1/15/2015 1:50:18 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 1/15/2015 1:46:45 PM, Impartial wrote:
At 1/15/2015 1:37:33 PM, johnlubba wrote:
At 1/15/2015 1:27:42 PM, Impartial wrote:
At 1/15/2015 1:06:33 PM, johnlubba wrote:
At 1/15/2015 12:45:10 PM, Impartial wrote:
At 1/15/2015 12:09:01 PM, johnlubba wrote:
At 1/15/2015 11:40:11 AM, Impartial wrote:
At 1/15/2015 11:29:07 AM, johnlubba wrote:
At 1/15/2015 10:49:13 AM, Impartial wrote:
Pope Francis says those who ridicule others' religions should 'expect a punch'

For the leader of a Church to advocate violence against ridicule of his religion, he is essentially giving Catholics worldwide the goahead to retailate against ridicule of their faith. Who else thinks this is irresponsible and worthy of insighting violence (a crime in the UK)?


Source?

Sorry;

http://www.independent.co.uk...


Thanks, It's a rather sensitive topic, And I in no way condone the shootings, But if you are prepared to insult somebody's faith, then I can also see how that could be upsetting,


Simply put, free speech allows us to ridicule someone's religion. It isn't hatred, it isn't inciting violence, it's on opinion. When I get told I'm going to Hell for being an atheist, it annoys me but I brush it off. I am in my rights to offend and be offenced, equally.

Well if you choose to openly offend people and their beliefs, then also be prepared to expect consequences, I myself am a neutral, But it doesn't take rocket science to know that people hold their faiths very dearly, and they will retaliate if offended.

I think the best thing is to keep it to yourself, We wouldn't allow people to openly insult our mother or father. And if we was to do that, then I can see how it can incite hatred.


Inciting hatred is a whole new ball game. I can mock someone's beliefs and offend them but that doesn't mean I hate them or condone violence against them.

Conclusion

Both are wrong and the shooters to a higher degree.

I conclude that the Pope was wrong to say such ridiculous comments, especially after what happened in Paris

I agree, That type of response seems childish to me, he could have been more practical.


I don't think 'childish' is acceptable from someone in his position. A Catholic could quite easily listen to what he said and suddenly think it's alright to use violence against people with opposing views. It could potentially be disastrous.


. This is someone who a lot of people look up to and listen to. Whatever happened to turning the other cheek or loving thy neighbour?

I agree





In the past I would have been burnt at the stake for declaring myself an atheist. We've moved on from that.

Declaring yourself an atheists, is not really offending anybody, it's just your personal belief, I don't think you should be punished or even ridiculed for it,

My friend, that is what used to happen. To be an atheist is to say that you do not believe and that was punishable by death.

I know, I am just saying, I don't agree anybody should be punished or even ridiculed.



But if you was to be offended or the entire atheist community was, then I expect somewhere someone, would retaliate.

Why would you expect that? And if it happened, would it be justified? I assume you agree with me when I say that no it definitely wouldn't.

No I can not say I agree, humans are very emotional creatures and violence can erupt for less offenses than that.

That doesn't make it right. I'd like to think we are civilised creatures.

My friend, I am not saying it's right and I am not condoning the retaliation, I am just stating the brutal facts, and that is people will retaliate. weather I like it or not.

So I conclude that it's best not to even go near it as a topic, and with that my shift is over, Take care.

I'm just saying that I think it's best and more mature not to offend anybody, especially about their faith.

Unfortunately maturity goes out of the window when someone wields an AK-47 and murders people. Sometimes it is necessary to offend. It is not acceptable to use violence in this way and that view is shared by most people. The timing of the Pope's comments imply that Charlie Ebdoe somehow got what they deserved and it was something to be expected.

unfortunately we do not live in a perfect moral society and people retaliate for the slightest of offenses, if you are will to mock others, then don't be surprised when they retaliate.

That my apply in the school playground but not in the real world. Again, retaliation of the nature we saw in Paris, is not right.

I am not condoning any violence of any sort, I am just stating the way things are, I don't agree that people should be allowed to freely offend others and think they should not expect consequences, why? because human beings are crazy.

What if someone says something absolutely ridiculous, like the Pope did? I'm not allowed to say he's wrong? I can't disagree with him and justify why I think he's talking nonsense?

How on earth would society progress if we weren't allowed to speak our minds, out of fear that we'd get arrested for hurting someone's feelings?
Impartial
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1/15/2015 1:51:14 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 1/15/2015 1:42:25 PM, AnDoctuir wrote:
At 1/15/2015 1:31:28 PM, Emilrose wrote:
There is such a thing as freedom of expression

Freedom to defame something someone else holds sacred is a ridiculous thing to vie for. Islam is insane for reasons other than denying freedom of expression. I mean, would you like it if some fellow were allowed to follow you around, no matter what, slandering you at the top of his voice all day every day? No, I doubt it.

Gosh. That isn't something you read every day.

No, I wouldn't like it but if I'm being harrassed then there are other laws for that. It offends me that you could even think, let along publicly admit that you don't value freedom of speech. I'm not going to assault you because you offend me!
To believe is to know nothing.
AnDoctuir
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1/15/2015 1:52:36 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 1/15/2015 1:51:14 PM, Impartial wrote:
At 1/15/2015 1:42:25 PM, AnDoctuir wrote:
At 1/15/2015 1:31:28 PM, Emilrose wrote:
There is such a thing as freedom of expression

Freedom to defame something someone else holds sacred is a ridiculous thing to vie for. Islam is insane for reasons other than denying freedom of expression. I mean, would you like it if some fellow were allowed to follow you around, no matter what, slandering you at the top of his voice all day every day? No, I doubt it.

Gosh. That isn't something you read every day.

No, I wouldn't like it but if I'm being harrassed then there are other laws for that. It offends me that you could even think, let along publicly admit that you don't value freedom of speech. I'm not going to assault you because you offend me!

Why shouldn't harassment be protected by freedom of speech? It is, after all, only speech.
Impartial
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1/15/2015 1:53:48 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 1/15/2015 1:45:56 PM, Juan_Pablo wrote:
At 1/15/2015 1:37:02 PM, Impartial wrote:
At 1/15/2015 1:20:14 PM, Juan_Pablo wrote:
At 1/15/2015 10:51:59 AM, AnDoctuir wrote:
I would imagine he was talking about the Charlie Hebdo incident, and that it was a caution rather than an incitement. Hey, religion is a touchy subject.

Agreed. Even though I do cherish and support freedom of speech, I'm also a strong proponent of common sense. Going out of your way to rip apart another religion--without being critical of your own beliefs--will at the very least encourage nasty opinions about you. People that are very critical of other religions and that go out of their way to destroy them through public opinion do so at their own risk.

After all, humans are highly volatile creatures.


This isn't about perceptions of common sense or revenge. It's about standing up to people who use violence to stop others from mocking what they believe. It isn't acceptable. You have the right to offend without being frightened for you life. And if you are offended then my advice is to man up.

It worries me when people make excuses for these murderers and people like them.

Yes, we do have the right to say what we please. But we must also remember that our rights exist as long as people decide respect and defend them. Don't abandon common sense simply because you have a right to do something. You need both in this crazy world.

I agree. But I'll criticise the one holding the gun running around shooting people before I criticise someone drawing pictures of a mythical creature.
To believe is to know nothing.
AnDoctuir
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1/15/2015 1:54:09 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
I don't value freedom of speech. I value equal say. There's a difference. One is very often taken ridiculously. The other is practical.
Impartial
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1/15/2015 1:58:12 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 1/15/2015 1:47:11 PM, AnDoctuir wrote:
These are petty antagonisms, with no need for making, and we're all aware what they get us. I've often fought dudes who said things about my mother. Haven't you? (You probably haven't Emilrose, but still.)

My topic is in response to the Pope's petty antagonisms.

I've stuck up for friends because they were being physically bullied, that's entirely different.
To believe is to know nothing.
AnDoctuir
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1/15/2015 2:00:00 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 1/15/2015 1:58:12 PM, Impartial wrote:
At 1/15/2015 1:47:11 PM, AnDoctuir wrote:
These are petty antagonisms, with no need for making, and we're all aware what they get us. I've often fought dudes who said things about my mother. Haven't you? (You probably haven't Emilrose, but still.)

My topic is in response to the Pope's petty antagonisms.

I've stuck up for friends because they were being physically bullied, that's entirely different.

The pope spoke common sense. You're just being ridiculous.
Impartial
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1/15/2015 2:04:53 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 1/15/2015 1:47:42 PM, johnlubba wrote:
At 1/15/2015 1:31:28 PM, Emilrose wrote:
At 1/15/2015 12:09:01 PM, johnlubba wrote:
At 1/15/2015 11:40:11 AM, Impartial wrote:
At 1/15/2015 11:29:07 AM, johnlubba wrote:
At 1/15/2015 10:49:13 AM, Impartial wrote:
Pope Francis says those who ridicule others' religions should 'expect a punch'

For the leader of a Church to advocate violence against ridicule of his religion, he is essentially giving Catholics worldwide the goahead to retailate against ridicule of their faith. Who else thinks this is irresponsible and worthy of insighting violence (a crime in the UK)?


Source?

Sorry;

http://www.independent.co.uk...


Thanks, It's a rather sensitive topic, And I in no way condone the shootings, But if you are prepared to insult somebody's faith, then I can also see how that could be upsetting,


What people seem to be misinterpreting is that Charlie Hebdo did not actually "insult" the faith, literally the only thing it did that caused "offense" to these Muslims is print a few satirical pictures. Both Judaism and Christianity have also featured in their publications, as well as the French president who is particularly ridiculed. Would that give him the right to kill 12 people? No. Just because religion is involved, we should not be making excuses.

Why did you choose to skip past the point where I stated that I am not condoning the violence, All I am stating are some relevant truths, Many comics and comedians openly state that they will not make jokes about Islam or it's prophet, because they are aware that people take serious offense by it. That's all, I myself wouldn't want to either, simply from not wanting to incite any consequence.

I know you don't condone the violence. I think comics staying away from offending people is a cop out. They should be able to say what they want. Newspapers who are scared to publish the font page of a Charlie Ebdo magazine shows that the extremists are winning. That's the point I'm trying to put across.


I think the best thing is to keep it to yourself, We wouldn't allow people to openly insult our mother or father. And if we was to do that, then I can see how it can incite hatred.

Why? There is such a thing as freedom of expression (not sure what the policy is on that in the U.S) so if a newspaper wants to draw cartoons it is perfectly entitled to. France has a rich history of satire and there's no valid reason it should stop that.
As a Jew, I've seen images I could have easily taken offense at (such as cartoons of prophet Moses, Orthodox Jews, etc.) in Charlie Hebdo but I would never take it upon myself to go and shoot innocent people, nor would I state that the artists/writers are "wrong" and try to take away their right to freedom of speech.

Good.

Conclusion

Both are wrong and the shooters to a higher degree.

The only people whom are at fault are the terrorists. We live in a civilized society where there is absolutely no excuse for such an attack.


We live in a civilized society, really? have you had a look at the serious crime rates in the UK, Trust me, many people are not civilized, any why should we draw satirical cartoons anyway, other than to mock? Of what use is it?

Not entirely but I'm sure you'll agree that is the goal. Religion happens to provide endless material for comics it seems. I refer you to the following website: http://www.jesusandmo.net...
To believe is to know nothing.
Impartial
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1/15/2015 2:07:59 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 1/15/2015 1:50:18 PM, johnlubba wrote:
At 1/15/2015 1:46:45 PM, Impartial wrote:
At 1/15/2015 1:37:33 PM, johnlubba wrote:
At 1/15/2015 1:27:42 PM, Impartial wrote:
At 1/15/2015 1:06:33 PM, johnlubba wrote:
At 1/15/2015 12:45:10 PM, Impartial wrote:
At 1/15/2015 12:09:01 PM, johnlubba wrote:
At 1/15/2015 11:40:11 AM, Impartial wrote:
At 1/15/2015 11:29:07 AM, johnlubba wrote:
At 1/15/2015 10:49:13 AM, Impartial wrote:
Pope Francis says those who ridicule others' religions should 'expect a punch'

For the leader of a Church to advocate violence against ridicule of his religion, he is essentially giving Catholics worldwide the goahead to retailate against ridicule of their faith. Who else thinks this is irresponsible and worthy of insighting violence (a crime in the UK)?


Source?

Sorry;

http://www.independent.co.uk...


Thanks, It's a rather sensitive topic, And I in no way condone the shootings, But if you are prepared to insult somebody's faith, then I can also see how that could be upsetting,


Simply put, free speech allows us to ridicule someone's religion. It isn't hatred, it isn't inciting violence, it's on opinion. When I get told I'm going to Hell for being an atheist, it annoys me but I brush it off. I am in my rights to offend and be offenced, equally.

Well if you choose to openly offend people and their beliefs, then also be prepared to expect consequences, I myself am a neutral, But it doesn't take rocket science to know that people hold their faiths very dearly, and they will retaliate if offended.

I think the best thing is to keep it to yourself, We wouldn't allow people to openly insult our mother or father. And if we was to do that, then I can see how it can incite hatred.


Inciting hatred is a whole new ball game. I can mock someone's beliefs and offend them but that doesn't mean I hate them or condone violence against them.

Conclusion

Both are wrong and the shooters to a higher degree.

I conclude that the Pope was wrong to say such ridiculous comments, especially after what happened in Paris

I agree, That type of response seems childish to me, he could have been more practical.


I don't think 'childish' is acceptable from someone in his position. A Catholic could quite easily listen to what he said and suddenly think it's alright to use violence against people with opposing views. It could potentially be disastrous.


. This is someone who a lot of people look up to and listen to. Whatever happened to turning the other cheek or loving thy neighbour?

I agree





In the past I would have been burnt at the stake for declaring myself an atheist. We've moved on from that.

Declaring yourself an atheists, is not really offending anybody, it's just your personal belief, I don't think you should be punished or even ridiculed for it,

My friend, that is what used to happen. To be an atheist is to say that you do not believe and that was punishable by death.

I know, I am just saying, I don't agree anybody should be punished or even ridiculed.



But if you was to be offended or the entire atheist community was, then I expect somewhere someone, would retaliate.

Why would you expect that? And if it happened, would it be justified? I assume you agree with me when I say that no it definitely wouldn't.

No I can not say I agree, humans are very emotional creatures and violence can erupt for less offenses than that.

That doesn't make it right. I'd like to think we are civilised creatures.


My friend, I am not saying it's right and I am not condoning the retaliation, I am just stating the brutal facts, and that is people will retaliate. weather I like it or not.

I know they do. I'm not denying that it happens.

So I conclude that it's best not to even go near it as a topic, and with that my shift is over, Take care.

I find that absurd, as I've already made clear.

I'm just saying that I think it's best and more mature not to offend anybody, especially about their faith.

Unfortunately maturity goes out of the window when someone wields an AK-47 and murders people. Sometimes it is necessary to offend. It is not acceptable to use violence in this way and that view is shared by most people. The timing of the Pope's comments imply that Charlie Ebdoe somehow got what they deserved and it was something to be expected.

unfortunately we do not live in a perfect moral society and people retaliate for the slightest of offenses, if you are will to mock others, then don't be surprised when they retaliate.

That my apply in the school playground but not in the real world. Again, retaliation of the nature we saw in Paris, is not right.

I am not condoning any violence of any sort, I am just stating the way things are, I don't agree that people should be allowed to freely offend others and think they should not expect consequences, why? because human beings are crazy.

What if someone says something absolutely ridiculous, like the Pope did? I'm not allowed to say he's wrong? I can't disagree with him and justify why I think he's talking nonsense?

How on earth would society progress if we weren't allowed to speak our minds, out of fear that we'd get arrested for hurting someone's feelings?
To believe is to know nothing.