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dhardage
Posts: 4,545
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1/16/2015 2:20:28 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
NDEs involving heaven, dead loved ones, or Jesus are simple fabrications? Seems one young man who supposed went to heaven and came back suddenly decided to tell the truth. See the story at the link below. Gotta wonder how many never make that decision.

http://www.msn.com...
Skepticalone
Posts: 6,125
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1/16/2015 2:28:44 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 1/16/2015 2:20:28 PM, dhardage wrote:
NDEs involving heaven, dead loved ones, or Jesus are simple fabrications? Seems one young man who supposed went to heaven and came back suddenly decided to tell the truth. See the story at the link below. Gotta wonder how many never make that decision.

http://www.msn.com...

I am wondering...
This thread is like eavesdropping on a conversation in a mental asylum. - Bulproof

You can call your invisible friends whatever you like. - Desmac

What the hell kind of coked up sideshow has this thread turned into. - Casten
Benshapiro
Posts: 3,966
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1/16/2015 2:46:24 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
That'd be a pretty big conspiracy considering NDE's involving visions of the afterlife have been documented for thousands of years.
dhardage
Posts: 4,545
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1/16/2015 2:48:26 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 1/16/2015 2:46:24 PM, Benshapiro wrote:
That'd be a pretty big conspiracy considering NDE's involving visions of the afterlife have been documented for thousands of years.

Yep, and not one was anything but the report of a person whose brain if failing due to lack of oxygen, most likely hallucinating. It's purely a subjective thing with no means to reproduce or test it until we can actually somehow record what's going on in some non-physical plane of existence.
Benshapiro
Posts: 3,966
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1/16/2015 2:53:52 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 1/16/2015 2:48:26 PM, dhardage wrote:
At 1/16/2015 2:46:24 PM, Benshapiro wrote:
That'd be a pretty big conspiracy considering NDE's involving visions of the afterlife have been documented for thousands of years.

Yep, and not one was anything but the report of a person whose brain if failing due to lack of oxygen, most likely hallucinating. It's purely a subjective thing with no means to reproduce or test it until we can actually somehow record what's going on in some non-physical plane of existence.

I think we all can agree that NDE's are real experiences. The question is, are they experienced wholly within the brain? There are very good reasons to believe that they aren't. One woman had an NDE while her brainwaves were flatlined.
dhardage
Posts: 4,545
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1/16/2015 3:00:56 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 1/16/2015 2:53:52 PM, Benshapiro wrote:
At 1/16/2015 2:48:26 PM, dhardage wrote:
At 1/16/2015 2:46:24 PM, Benshapiro wrote:
That'd be a pretty big conspiracy considering NDE's involving visions of the afterlife have been documented for thousands of years.

Yep, and not one was anything but the report of a person whose brain if failing due to lack of oxygen, most likely hallucinating. It's purely a subjective thing with no means to reproduce or test it until we can actually somehow record what's going on in some non-physical plane of existence.

I think we all can agree that NDE's are real experiences. The question is, are they experienced wholly within the brain? There are very good reasons to believe that they aren't. One woman had an NDE while her brainwaves were flatlined.

I agree that these people have had their experiences. I agree that they are that real. Since we have no measurement of anything outside the body that corresponds to these experiences and no way to probe outside our reality we must conclude that it does happen in the brain of the individual. Yes, that young lady was in a form of hibernation meant to preserver her brain function despite lack of oxygen. That does not prove anything and is only evidence that our brains still record information when all cognitive functions are shut down.

Show me way to experimentally reproduce the event, a way to record it, test it, and you might have an argument. Until then it remains in the realm of purely subjective and anecdotal information with limited value as evidence.

But that does not really address the post. If this NDE featuring a conversation with Jesus was purely a fabrication, how many more are there that are simply not admitted to?
SNP1
Posts: 2,403
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1/16/2015 3:04:04 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 1/16/2015 2:53:52 PM, Benshapiro wrote:
One woman had an NDE while her brainwaves were flatlined.

How do they know that?
#TheApatheticNihilistPartyofAmerica
#WarOnDDO
dhardage
Posts: 4,545
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1/16/2015 3:07:24 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 1/16/2015 3:04:04 PM, SNP1 wrote:
At 1/16/2015 2:53:52 PM, Benshapiro wrote:
One woman had an NDE while her brainwaves were flatlined.

How do they know that?

There was a book written about it. The young lady had a massive annurism (sorry, forget how to spell that) and the only way to remove it was to lower her body temperature way down, basically shut her body down, and then warm it back up. At one point her EEG was indeed flat lined, if the information from that book is accurate. She apparently had an NDE, more of an OOBE (out of body experience) during the procedure.
dee-em
Posts: 6,474
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1/16/2015 8:22:54 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 1/16/2015 2:20:28 PM, dhardage wrote:
NDEs involving heaven, dead loved ones, or Jesus are simple fabrications? Seems one young man who supposed went to heaven and came back suddenly decided to tell the truth. See the story at the link below. Gotta wonder how many never make that decision.

http://www.msn.com...

Did anyone with even half a brain ever doubt that the story was concocted? His own mother had been telling everyone who would listen for years that it was a childish prank that went too far. The father was just out for a quick buck from the gullible.
bornofgod
Posts: 11,322
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1/16/2015 9:11:04 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 1/16/2015 2:20:28 PM, dhardage wrote:
NDEs involving heaven, dead loved ones, or Jesus are simple fabrications? Seems one young man who supposed went to heaven and came back suddenly decided to tell the truth. See the story at the link below. Gotta wonder how many never make that decision.

http://www.msn.com...

Just like false prophets who claim to get information from our Creator, we don't know they're false prophets until their prophetic claims are known to be false.
TheAnonymousTipster
Posts: 97
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1/16/2015 9:34:32 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 1/16/2015 3:07:24 PM, dhardage wrote:
At 1/16/2015 3:04:04 PM, SNP1 wrote:
At 1/16/2015 2:53:52 PM, Benshapiro wrote:
One woman had an NDE while her brainwaves were flatlined.

How do they know that?

There was a book written about it. The young lady had a massive annurism (sorry, forget how to spell that) and the only way to remove it was to lower her body temperature way down, basically shut her body down, and then warm it back up. At one point her EEG was indeed flat lined, if the information from that book is accurate. She apparently had an NDE, more of an OOBE (out of body experience) during the procedure.

Next most likely conclusion...
When the brain is regaining consciousness after flatlining it goes into an overdrive. Her mind was in a state of panic trying to process what happened.

I also hear of such stories that people who have NDE's report things that happened while they were dying. Again, similar thing. Since your brain is losing control of your body, it suddenly has a huge capacity for doing other things. Just like how people with parts of their brain removed can still function fully, as the brain is organic and can reassign parts of itself in order for survival. Or how a blind person has better hearing, etc.

I also read about this recently, which was interesting:
http://en.wikipedia.org...

Everything is energy which is transmitting in varying frequencies. If certain frequencies transmitted can be picked up by your eyeballs instead of your ears and make you see things (which, is actually the default for say, everything we see), it doesn't seem too hard to imagine these frequencies could be picked up in other ways, which while your brain is in these different states, can actually be recognised and picked up by the brain.

Which would be really exciting, because with some more research in what's annoyingly an almost hopeless field of cognitive science, blind people could see - or better yet, we could all see without our eyesight - and have x-ray vision and all sorts of things... we could see sound and possibly even things really far away. Remember, the reason we see is that energy hits our eyeballs, not the other way around - so the alternative idea of NDE's being the soul somehow escaping and travelling in order to achieve the reported 'sightings' simply seems less likely than our brain changing to catch the energy which is still being transmitted.
Skepticalone
Posts: 6,125
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1/16/2015 9:36:48 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 1/16/2015 2:53:52 PM, Benshapiro wrote:
At 1/16/2015 2:48:26 PM, dhardage wrote:
At 1/16/2015 2:46:24 PM, Benshapiro wrote:
That'd be a pretty big conspiracy considering NDE's involving visions of the afterlife have been documented for thousands of years.

Yep, and not one was anything but the report of a person whose brain if failing due to lack of oxygen, most likely hallucinating. It's purely a subjective thing with no means to reproduce or test it until we can actually somehow record what's going on in some non-physical plane of existence.

I think we all can agree that NDE's are real experiences. The question is, are they experienced wholly within the brain? There are very good reasons to believe that they aren't. One woman had an NDE while her brainwaves were flatlined.

How do you know? Perhaps the experience happened before or after the flatline.
This thread is like eavesdropping on a conversation in a mental asylum. - Bulproof

You can call your invisible friends whatever you like. - Desmac

What the hell kind of coked up sideshow has this thread turned into. - Casten
Skepticalone
Posts: 6,125
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1/16/2015 9:37:28 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 1/16/2015 2:46:24 PM, Benshapiro wrote:
That'd be a pretty big conspiracy considering NDE's involving visions of the afterlife have been documented for thousands of years.

That is true. It is unlikely they were all made up.
This thread is like eavesdropping on a conversation in a mental asylum. - Bulproof

You can call your invisible friends whatever you like. - Desmac

What the hell kind of coked up sideshow has this thread turned into. - Casten
Skepticalone
Posts: 6,125
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1/16/2015 10:00:16 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 1/16/2015 3:07:24 PM, dhardage wrote:
At 1/16/2015 3:04:04 PM, SNP1 wrote:
At 1/16/2015 2:53:52 PM, Benshapiro wrote:
One woman had an NDE while her brainwaves were flatlined.

How do they know that?

There was a book written about it. The young lady had a massive annurism (sorry, forget how to spell that) and the only way to remove it was to lower her body temperature way down, basically shut her body down, and then warm it back up. At one point her EEG was indeed flat lined, if the information from that book is accurate. She apparently had an NDE, more of an OOBE (out of body experience) during the procedure.

How do they know when the NDE/OOBE occurred? It could have happened before or after the flatline.
This thread is like eavesdropping on a conversation in a mental asylum. - Bulproof

You can call your invisible friends whatever you like. - Desmac

What the hell kind of coked up sideshow has this thread turned into. - Casten
Mhykiel
Posts: 5,987
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1/16/2015 10:42:47 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 1/16/2015 2:20:28 PM, dhardage wrote:
NDEs involving heaven, dead loved ones, or Jesus are simple fabrications? Seems one young man who supposed went to heaven and came back suddenly decided to tell the truth. See the story at the link below. Gotta wonder how many never make that decision.

http://www.msn.com...

How many times have heard scientist claim we evolved from primates?

Well in the 29th Century the 40 year fake known as the Piltdown man was exposed.
http://en.wikipedia.org...

Finally scientist came clean.. This was because the faked remains were no longer representing the picture evolutionist wanted. Now what? 100 years from now the fossils they pass off today will be quietly returned tot he junk bin.

See the problem of inducing from one situation to a whole general field?
jodybirdy
Posts: 2,089
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1/16/2015 10:57:45 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 1/16/2015 2:20:28 PM, dhardage wrote:
NDEs involving heaven, dead loved ones, or Jesus are simple fabrications? Seems one young man who supposed went to heaven and came back suddenly decided to tell the truth. See the story at the link below. Gotta wonder how many never make that decision.

http://www.msn.com...

In many cases I think they might honestly believe that hallucinations that accompanied near death were somehow otherworldly, but there is so much that the human mind is capable of. Schizophrenics believe that their hallucinations are real and it has been proven without a shadow of doubt that they are caused by physical malfunction of the brain.

With that being said, some of the other stories might very well be fake. People do strange and sometimes extreme things for attention or to make up excuses for faith based positions.
A rock pile ceases to be a rock pile the moment a single man contemplates it, bearing within him the image of a cathedral."
Idealist
Posts: 2,520
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1/16/2015 10:59:00 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 1/16/2015 2:20:28 PM, dhardage wrote:
NDEs involving heaven, dead loved ones, or Jesus are simple fabrications? Seems one young man who supposed went to heaven and came back suddenly decided to tell the truth. See the story at the link below. Gotta wonder how many never make that decision.

http://www.msn.com...

So the lesson here is . . . what? That people lie? :P

Seriously, if I can find a news story that shows a democrat lied will that mean that being a democrat is bad? Or a republican? Of course people lie, and they do it about all sorts of things. Presidents definitely lie, even when they say, "I will not tell a lie", apparently. :)