Total Posts:23|Showing Posts:1-23
Jump to topic:

Religious experiences

sdavio
Posts: 1,798
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
1/18/2015 3:02:22 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
Some people accept religion based on their parents, or based on abstract theory like the Kalam argument. But how many people on this board have had actual, direct spritual / religious experiences? Hearing God, miracles, the afterlife etc..

Also, which of these methods are a better way of coming to religion? By some theoretical path, or by actually 'feeling' God, or experiencing something like that?
"Logic is the money of the mind." - Karl Marx
uncung
Posts: 3,445
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
1/18/2015 3:07:22 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 1/18/2015 3:02:22 AM, sdavio wrote:
Some people accept religion based on their parents, or based on abstract theory like the Kalam argument. But how many people on this board have had actual, direct spiritual / religious experiences? Hearing God, miracles, the afterlife etc..

Also, which of these methods are a better way of coming to religion? By some theoretical path, or by actually 'feeling' God, or experiencing something like that?

the better way is by examining the religion.
sdavio
Posts: 1,798
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
1/18/2015 3:11:57 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 1/18/2015 3:07:22 AM, uncung wrote:
At 1/18/2015 3:02:22 AM, sdavio wrote:
Some people accept religion based on their parents, or based on abstract theory like the Kalam argument. But how many people on this board have had actual, direct spiritual / religious experiences? Hearing God, miracles, the afterlife etc..

Also, which of these methods are a better way of coming to religion? By some theoretical path, or by actually 'feeling' God, or experiencing something like that?

the better way is by examining the religion.

Better for what?
"Logic is the money of the mind." - Karl Marx
AnDoctuir
Posts: 11,060
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
1/18/2015 3:29:25 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
I've had a bunch of religious experiences; and I mean really profound ones too. Actually, I think they reflect the sheer infiniteness of it all, they act as a certain denial of science. I mean, what of the schizophrenic who hears God talking to him? Is he ever to be tied down to materialism by science? And really it works just the same for everyone, just that a person's schizophrenia might deny them order to a greater degree than the sane person. We are all living in the infinite, it's just religious experiences paint a little personality into that infinity. And hey, maybe it is just the drugs that I'm getting my religious experiences from, but that doesn't really dull them too much. (I've had them besides when I've used drugs too, lol. I was just reminded of that quote from Trainspotting: "I mean heroin's got great f*cking personality".)
sdavio
Posts: 1,798
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
1/18/2015 3:30:27 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 1/18/2015 3:27:01 AM, uncung wrote:

the better way is by examining the religion.

Better for what?
better for belief.

I think actually experiencing something is much better for belief.
"Logic is the money of the mind." - Karl Marx
AnDoctuir
Posts: 11,060
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
1/18/2015 3:32:03 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
Religious experiences, for me, are to live in the heart of coincidence. The whole universe seems to talk to you. (Besides one really f*cking crazy time.)
uncung
Posts: 3,445
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
1/18/2015 3:36:15 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
Better for what?
better for belief.

I think actually experiencing something is much better for belief.

All kind of faiths belong to religious convenient and inconvenient experience.
It. however, can not be used to determine the truth.
Only by deep examination the truth can be found.
frbnsn
Posts: 353
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
1/18/2015 3:42:43 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 1/18/2015 3:02:22 AM, sdavio wrote:
Some people accept religion based on their parents, or based on abstract theory like the Kalam argument. But how many people on this board have had actual, direct spritual / religious experiences? Hearing God, miracles, the afterlife etc..

Also, which of these methods are a better way of coming to religion? By some theoretical path, or by actually 'feeling' God, or experiencing something like that?

I think, the better way is to examine and to try to find answers to the questions you ask to yourself. Like:
How has matter come to being? By itself or created by a supernatural being?...
sdavio
Posts: 1,798
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
1/18/2015 3:43:45 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 1/18/2015 3:29:25 AM, AnDoctuir wrote:
I've had a bunch of religious experiences; and I mean really profound ones too. Actually, I think they reflect the sheer infiniteness of it all, they act as a certain denial of science. I mean, what of the schizophrenic who hears God talking to him? Is he ever to be tied down to materialism by science? And really it works just the same for everyone, just that a person's schizophrenia might deny them order to a greater degree than the sane person. We are all living in the infinite, it's just religious experiences paint a little personality into that infinity. And hey, maybe it is just the drugs that I'm getting my religious experiences from, but that doesn't really dull them too much. (I've had them besides when I've used drugs too, lol. I was just reminded of that quote from Trainspotting: "I mean heroin's got great f*cking personality".)

I've really wanted to have religious experiences on psychadelics etc, but mainly it just makes my internal monologue kind of loop in on itself in a really horrible way. And then I kinda can't escape my own thoughts. That happens every time I've tried it, except MDMA which just made me happy. Maybe drugs just aren't for me lol. Or maybe just not at this point of my life. Generally in normal life I'm pretty quiet, because I'm constantly over-thinking, but I can manage it, and drugs seem to push that overboard, if that makes sense.

Once, when I was part-way between sleeping and waking up, I died, in the dream, and then like, asked the dream to show me the afterlife. And then I saw this goldish-brown horizon, accompanied by this insanely intense emotion, and then woke up after a few minutes of that. That's the closest thing I've had, I think. But describing it doesn't really do justice to it.. oh well.
"Logic is the money of the mind." - Karl Marx
sdavio
Posts: 1,798
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
1/18/2015 3:47:54 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 1/18/2015 3:42:43 AM, frbnsn wrote:
At 1/18/2015 3:02:22 AM, sdavio wrote:
Some people accept religion based on their parents, or based on abstract theory like the Kalam argument. But how many people on this board have had actual, direct spritual / religious experiences? Hearing God, miracles, the afterlife etc..

Also, which of these methods are a better way of coming to religion? By some theoretical path, or by actually 'feeling' God, or experiencing something like that?

I think, the better way is to examine and to try to find answers to the questions you ask to yourself. Like:
How has matter come to being? By itself or created by a supernatural being?...

In my experience this just leads to playing around with the semantics of words like "matter" and "being". At some point we need to actually experience something, especially something which is non-scientific such as God.
"Logic is the money of the mind." - Karl Marx
AnDoctuir
Posts: 11,060
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
1/18/2015 3:52:04 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 1/18/2015 3:43:45 AM, sdavio wrote:
At 1/18/2015 3:29:25 AM, AnDoctuir wrote:
I've had a bunch of religious experiences; and I mean really profound ones too. Actually, I think they reflect the sheer infiniteness of it all, they act as a certain denial of science. I mean, what of the schizophrenic who hears God talking to him? Is he ever to be tied down to materialism by science? And really it works just the same for everyone, just that a person's schizophrenia might deny them order to a greater degree than the sane person. We are all living in the infinite, it's just religious experiences paint a little personality into that infinity. And hey, maybe it is just the drugs that I'm getting my religious experiences from, but that doesn't really dull them too much. (I've had them besides when I've used drugs too, lol. I was just reminded of that quote from Trainspotting: "I mean heroin's got great f*cking personality".)

I've really wanted to have religious experiences on psychadelics etc, but mainly it just makes my internal monologue kind of loop in on itself in a really horrible way. And then I kinda can't escape my own thoughts. That happens every time I've tried it, except MDMA which just made me happy. Maybe drugs just aren't for me lol. Or maybe just not at this point of my life. Generally in normal life I'm pretty quiet, because I'm constantly over-thinking, but I can manage it, and drugs seem to push that overboard, if that makes sense.

Once, when I was part-way between sleeping and waking up, I died, in the dream, and then like, asked the dream to show me the afterlife. And then I saw this goldish-brown horizon, accompanied by this insanely intense emotion, and then woke up after a few minutes of that. That's the closest thing I've had, I think. But describing it doesn't really do justice to it.. oh well.

I know that feeling. You have this crazy experience and then everything just goes back to normal and it was something else. That's actually always the strangest part of it for me. I had it when I was praying once, where I kinda turned out of the prayer looking into my surroundings. I can't describe it, but I came from somewhere else, unaware of having been somewhere else. Actually, I despaired at that feeling then, putting it down to an empty psychological mechanism in prayer, but, looking back on it, it seems more significant than that. I don't know, lol.
celestialtorahteacher
Posts: 1,369
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
1/18/2015 3:55:55 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
I would still be an atheist without going through religious experiences. There is no way to find God without them and that's a fact that all those who believe you can find God through intellectual effort need to reexamine in light of historical facts and common sense. Spirit cannot be confused with anything less and Spirit teaches you about God while man-made religious literature teaches you what the men who wrote them want you to learn. You want to stay within man-made "religion" and be a tool of some ancient dead man or dead men, that's your business but if you want to find your authentic personal relationship with God you have to do the heavy lifting all by yourself, no Scripts handed to you to memorize, cut-n-paste into your brain, only the real stuff, revelation. This is the Gnostic Solitary Path btw, which is the only spiritually authentic one as all others are derivative of other men's ideas.
frbnsn
Posts: 353
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
1/18/2015 3:56:19 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 1/18/2015 3:47:54 AM, sdavio wrote:
At 1/18/2015 3:42:43 AM, frbnsn wrote:
At 1/18/2015 3:02:22 AM, sdavio wrote:
Some people accept religion based on their parents, or based on abstract theory like the Kalam argument. But how many people on this board have had actual, direct spritual / religious experiences? Hearing God, miracles, the afterlife etc..

Also, which of these methods are a better way of coming to religion? By some theoretical path, or by actually 'feeling' God, or experiencing something like that?

I think, the better way is to examine and to try to find answers to the questions you ask to yourself. Like:
How has matter come to being? By itself or created by a supernatural being?...

In my experience this just leads to playing around with the semantics of words like "matter" and "being". At some point we need to actually experience something, especially something which is non-scientific such as God.

But it is impossible to show God to you.
A man can just believe, not to know as if see apparently.
AnDoctuir
Posts: 11,060
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
1/18/2015 3:56:40 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
Religious experiences are a sort of silly thing to be talking about, lol. Mine have definitely inspired in me certain emotions/outlooks though.
AnDoctuir
Posts: 11,060
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
1/18/2015 4:04:34 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 1/18/2015 3:52:04 AM, AnDoctuir wrote:
At 1/18/2015 3:43:45 AM, sdavio wrote:
At 1/18/2015 3:29:25 AM, AnDoctuir wrote:
I've had a bunch of religious experiences; and I mean really profound ones too. Actually, I think they reflect the sheer infiniteness of it all, they act as a certain denial of science. I mean, what of the schizophrenic who hears God talking to him? Is he ever to be tied down to materialism by science? And really it works just the same for everyone, just that a person's schizophrenia might deny them order to a greater degree than the sane person. We are all living in the infinite, it's just religious experiences paint a little personality into that infinity. And hey, maybe it is just the drugs that I'm getting my religious experiences from, but that doesn't really dull them too much. (I've had them besides when I've used drugs too, lol. I was just reminded of that quote from Trainspotting: "I mean heroin's got great f*cking personality".)

I've really wanted to have religious experiences on psychadelics etc, but mainly it just makes my internal monologue kind of loop in on itself in a really horrible way. And then I kinda can't escape my own thoughts. That happens every time I've tried it, except MDMA which just made me happy. Maybe drugs just aren't for me lol. Or maybe just not at this point of my life. Generally in normal life I'm pretty quiet, because I'm constantly over-thinking, but I can manage it, and drugs seem to push that overboard, if that makes sense.

Once, when I was part-way between sleeping and waking up, I died, in the dream, and then like, asked the dream to show me the afterlife. And then I saw this goldish-brown horizon, accompanied by this insanely intense emotion, and then woke up after a few minutes of that. That's the closest thing I've had, I think. But describing it doesn't really do justice to it.. oh well.

I know that feeling. You have this crazy experience and then everything just goes back to normal and it was something else. That's actually always the strangest part of it for me. I had it when I was praying once, where I kinda turned out of the prayer looking into my surroundings. I can't describe it, but I came from somewhere else, unaware of having been somewhere else. Actually, I despaired at that feeling then, putting it down to an empty psychological mechanism in prayer, but, looking back on it, it seems more significant than that. I don't know, lol.

I am also aware of psychological mechanisms which work exactly like that, however, but it doesn't seem to matter. (Ever mixed up the order of some routine by thinking of a later part of it, then finding yourself looking at the next step with a mind to do something which comes later? Strange experience.) And I am aware that a person can feed themselves religious experience by their subconscious, but not mine. Or maybe even mine - by insane mechanics - but the effect is the same. Really, we could put things down to solipsism all day long.
AnDoctuir
Posts: 11,060
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
1/18/2015 4:08:28 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
It's not really impossible to induce a religious experience in someone else, either, by the way. But they do need to have the will to experience one (which can also be put in them). And these experiences can be very specific, too, which might seem to dull the effect; but ... I don't know.
sdavio
Posts: 1,798
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
1/18/2015 4:13:55 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 1/18/2015 3:55:55 AM, celestialtorahteacher wrote:
I would still be an atheist without going through religious experiences. There is no way to find God without them and that's a fact that all those who believe you can find God through intellectual effort need to reexamine in light of historical facts and common sense. Spirit cannot be confused with anything less and Spirit teaches you about God while man-made religious literature teaches you what the men who wrote them want you to learn. You want to stay within man-made "religion" and be a tool of some ancient dead man or dead men, that's your business but if you want to find your authentic personal relationship with God you have to do the heavy lifting all by yourself, no Scripts handed to you to memorize, cut-n-paste into your brain, only the real stuff, revelation. This is the Gnostic Solitary Path btw, which is the only spiritually authentic one as all others are derivative of other men's ideas.

Great post.. thanks :P. Really agree with your sentiment here. However I googled "Gnostic Solitary Path" and there were only like, a couple of relevant results, which left me wondering whether it's a properly real practice lol.
"Logic is the money of the mind." - Karl Marx
AnDoctuir
Posts: 11,060
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
1/18/2015 4:19:12 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
Napoleon thought he was doing some monistic God's work. Felt something steering him. It's definitely hard to sort out truth from religious experience.
AnDoctuir
Posts: 11,060
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
1/18/2015 4:33:45 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
It's like in that Pirates of the Caribbean movie where the dude slaughters the pirate commoners to make them sing the freaky mystical song, lol. I just flicked the channel of the TV and there it was...
12_13
Posts: 1,361
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
1/18/2015 6:40:37 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 1/18/2015 3:02:22 AM, sdavio wrote:
Also, which of these methods are a better way of coming to religion? By some theoretical path, or by actually 'feeling' God, or experiencing something like that?

According to the Bible:

So faith comes by hearing, and hearing by the word of God.
Romans 10:17

People should hear the words that Jesus told, and then they could get faith. Unfortunately words that Jesus told are not well remembered nowadays.
DanneJeRusse
Posts: 12,609
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
1/18/2015 1:42:48 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 1/18/2015 3:29:25 AM, AnDoctuir wrote:
I've had a bunch of religious experiences; and I mean really profound ones too. Actually, I think they reflect the sheer infiniteness of it all, they act as a certain denial of science. I mean, what of the schizophrenic who hears God talking to him? Is he ever to be tied down to materialism by science? And really it works just the same for everyone, just that a person's schizophrenia might deny them order to a greater degree than the sane person. We are all living in the infinite, it's just religious experiences paint a little personality into that infinity. And hey, maybe it is just the drugs that I'm getting my religious experiences from, but that doesn't really dull them too much. (I've had them besides when I've used drugs too, lol. I was just reminded of that quote from Trainspotting: "I mean heroin's got great f*cking personality".)

Yes, I would agree that schizophrenia explains many religious experiences, especially the profound ones.
Marrying a 6 year old and waiting until she reaches puberty and maturity before having consensual sex is better than walking up to
a stranger in a bar and proceeding to have relations with no valid proof of the intent of the person. Muhammad wins. ~ Fatihah
If they don't want to be killed then they have to subdue to the Islamic laws. - Uncung
Without God, you are lower than sh!t. ~ SpiritandTruth
POPOO5560
Posts: 2,487
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
1/18/2015 6:03:56 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 1/18/2015 3:55:55 AM, celestialtorahteacher wrote:
I would still be an atheist without going through religious experiences. There is no way to find God without them and that's a fact that all those who believe you can find God through intellectual effort need to reexamine in light of historical facts and common sense. Spirit cannot be confused with anything less and Spirit teaches you about God while man-made religious literature teaches you what the men who wrote them want you to learn. You want to stay within man-made "religion" and be a tool of some ancient dead man or dead men, that's your business but if you want to find your authentic personal relationship with God you have to do the heavy lifting all by yourself, no Scripts handed to you to memorize, cut-n-paste into your brain, only the real stuff, revelation. This is the Gnostic Solitary Path btw, which is the only spiritually authentic one as all others are derivative of other men's ideas.

dont feeed trollers!!!!!! ahhhhhaaaaaaaahaaaaaaaaaaaaa you hearrr meeeeeee guyssss?!:!
Never fart near dog