Total Posts:69|Showing Posts:1-30|Last Page
Jump to topic:

What Convinces You?

GeoLaureate8
Posts: 12,252
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
6/21/2010 4:26:20 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
For those who have had a change in beliefs, what is it that convinces you?

For me, it is rhetoric. Not logic or reason. (Albeit, rhetoric infused with logic and reason.) If you ever stumbled upon a "teacher," lecturer, or speaker, isn't it their rhetoric that captures you?

I know this has been true for me. When I seen some of my intellectual influences speak for the first time (and many times after), they usually make a hard-hitting point that is said eloquently, powerfully, and rhetorically. This event then resonates with me and changes or refines my views.

So how are you convinced?
"We must raise the standard of the Old, free, decentralized, and strictly limited Republic."
-- Murray Rothbard

"The worst thing that can happen to a good cause is, not to be skillfully attacked, but to be ineptly defended."
-- Frederic Bastiat
Marauder
Posts: 3,271
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
6/21/2010 5:03:26 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
rhetoric is important but I wouldn't say it is in anyway more than reason or logic.

though as much as i avoid arguing about it, or with it, or beat peoples heads over with it; faith really does play a significant role with my resolve in my beliefs.
One act of Rebellion created all the darkness and evil in the world; One life of Total Obedience created a path back to eternity and God.

A Scout is Obedient.
annhasle
Posts: 6,657
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
6/21/2010 9:56:15 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
Well, I was convinced by logic and reason... -_-'

I was raised to be Lutheran, and I had problems with it from the very beginning. When I was 8 I asked the pastor, "If there's a God, why are people praying to a cross. Can't he just come down and say hello?" and the next Sunday, "So a big man up there :points to the sky: is watching me and if I do something wrong, I won't see him when I die? That's all?" Slowly, my ideas started forming and by the time I was 11, I was pretty fed up with the idea. There was no logic and no point in believing in God! So, I talked with a guy my sister knew who was 16 and he said, "Dude, you sound like an atheist. Way to go." From there on, I realized that Atheists seemed to have the logical side and I haven't changed since.

I know that was probably boring as hell for you, but I thought the question expected an experience from your life >.>....

But really, every person is different. Some don't need logic and just need something to believe in. Others want proof or logic and won't settle for anything less. So the rhetorical answers probably won't work on the latter. Whenever the pastor answered rhetorically, I wanted to smack him. I like logic and reason. I don't want to be pushed around and manipulated by some old fiction novel and not live my life the way I want to. I'm not saying I'm planning to murder someone or "covet someone's ox", but I like to have freedom and possibilities and if I have to have limitations; there better be a damn good reason. :D
I'm not back. This idiot just upset me which made me stop lurking.
DATCMOTO
Posts: 6,160
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
6/22/2010 2:54:38 AM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 6/21/2010 4:26:20 PM, GeoLaureate8 wrote:
For those who have had a change in beliefs, what is it that convinces you?

For me, it is rhetoric. Not logic or reason. (Albeit, rhetoric infused with logic and reason.) If you ever stumbled upon a "teacher," lecturer, or speaker, isn't it their rhetoric that captures you?


I know this has been true for me. When I seen some of my intellectual influences speak for the first time (and many times after), they usually make a hard-hitting point that is said eloquently, powerfully, and rhetorically. This event then resonates with me and changes or refines my views.

So how are you convinced?

The Holy Spirit of Jesus Christ (God's ONLY begotten Son) spoke to me clearly, personally.

Pretty convincing I can tell you.
The Cross.. the Cross.
Cerebral_Narcissist
Posts: 10,806
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
6/22/2010 3:00:45 AM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 6/22/2010 2:54:38 AM, DATCMOTO wrote:
At 6/21/2010 4:26:20 PM, GeoLaureate8 wrote:
For those who have had a change in beliefs, what is it that convinces you?

For me, it is rhetoric. Not logic or reason. (Albeit, rhetoric infused with logic and reason.) If you ever stumbled upon a "teacher," lecturer, or speaker, isn't it their rhetoric that captures you?


I know this has been true for me. When I seen some of my intellectual influences speak for the first time (and many times after), they usually make a hard-hitting point that is said eloquently, powerfully, and rhetorically. This event then resonates with me and changes or refines my views.

So how are you convinced?

The Holy Spirit of Jesus Christ (God's ONLY begotten Son) spoke to me clearly, personally.

Pretty convincing I can tell you.

Thinking logically you must realise that some people who hear the voice of God are mentally ill. How can you be certain of the origin of the voice. All humans are capable of hallucination.
I am voting for Innomen because of his intelligence, common sense, humility and the fact that Juggle appears to listen to him. Any other Presidential style would have a large sub-section of the site up in arms. If I was President I would destroy the site though elitism, others would let it run riot. Innomen represents a middle way that works, neither draconian nor anarchic and that is the only way things can work. Plus he does it all without ego trips.
DATCMOTO
Posts: 6,160
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
6/22/2010 3:06:21 AM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 6/22/2010 3:00:45 AM, Cerebral_Narcissist wrote:
At 6/22/2010 2:54:38 AM, DATCMOTO wrote:
At 6/21/2010 4:26:20 PM, GeoLaureate8 wrote:
For those who have had a change in beliefs, what is it that convinces you?

For me, it is rhetoric. Not logic or reason. (Albeit, rhetoric infused with logic and reason.) If you ever stumbled upon a "teacher," lecturer, or speaker, isn't it their rhetoric that captures you?


I know this has been true for me. When I seen some of my intellectual influences speak for the first time (and many times after), they usually make a hard-hitting point that is said eloquently, powerfully, and rhetorically. This event then resonates with me and changes or refines my views.

So how are you convinced?

The Holy Spirit of Jesus Christ (God's ONLY begotten Son) spoke to me clearly, personally.

Pretty convincing I can tell you.

Thinking logically you must realise that some people who hear the voice of God are mentally ill. How can you be certain of the origin of the voice. All humans are capable of hallucination.

Absolutely Tarzan.. But how do we know anything? I KNOW that I know that I know.
The Cross.. the Cross.
Cerebral_Narcissist
Posts: 10,806
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
6/22/2010 3:11:36 AM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 6/22/2010 3:06:21 AM, DATCMOTO wrote:
At 6/22/2010 3:00:45 AM, Cerebral_Narcissist wrote:
At 6/22/2010 2:54:38 AM, DATCMOTO wrote:
At 6/21/2010 4:26:20 PM, GeoLaureate8 wrote:
For those who have had a change in beliefs, what is it that convinces you?

For me, it is rhetoric. Not logic or reason. (Albeit, rhetoric infused with logic and reason.) If you ever stumbled upon a "teacher," lecturer, or speaker, isn't it their rhetoric that captures you?


I know this has been true for me. When I seen some of my intellectual influences speak for the first time (and many times after), they usually make a hard-hitting point that is said eloquently, powerfully, and rhetorically. This event then resonates with me and changes or refines my views.

So how are you convinced?

The Holy Spirit of Jesus Christ (God's ONLY begotten Son) spoke to me clearly, personally.

Pretty convincing I can tell you.

Thinking logically you must realise that some people who hear the voice of God are mentally ill. How can you be certain of the origin of the voice. All humans are capable of hallucination.

Absolutely Tarzan.. But how do we know anything? I KNOW that I know that I know.

But sugar tits, how can you know for sure?

For instance, I saw a friend standing in front of me as clear as day. He was at least a hundred miles away at the time. Logically I know I halluncinated. If the halluncination was of Jesus... how could I have known.

What is your standard of evidence?
I am voting for Innomen because of his intelligence, common sense, humility and the fact that Juggle appears to listen to him. Any other Presidential style would have a large sub-section of the site up in arms. If I was President I would destroy the site though elitism, others would let it run riot. Innomen represents a middle way that works, neither draconian nor anarchic and that is the only way things can work. Plus he does it all without ego trips.
FREEDO
Posts: 21,057
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
6/22/2010 3:11:46 AM
Posted: 6 years ago
Nobody outside of myself has plaid a large part in changing my mind. It tends to happen through much self-reflection. The reason why this is and the reason why I change my mind so much is because I spend the majority of my time thinking about how I could be wrong.
GRAND POOBAH OF DDO

fnord
Cerebral_Narcissist
Posts: 10,806
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
6/22/2010 3:13:19 AM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 6/22/2010 3:11:46 AM, FREEDO wrote:
Nobody outside of myself has plaid a large part in changing my mind. It tends to happen through much self-reflection. The reason why this is and the reason why I change my mind so much is because I spend the majority of my time thinking about how I could be wrong.

Yea me too, but now I dont really change my mind much.
I am voting for Innomen because of his intelligence, common sense, humility and the fact that Juggle appears to listen to him. Any other Presidential style would have a large sub-section of the site up in arms. If I was President I would destroy the site though elitism, others would let it run riot. Innomen represents a middle way that works, neither draconian nor anarchic and that is the only way things can work. Plus he does it all without ego trips.
Puck
Posts: 6,457
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
6/22/2010 3:16:45 AM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 6/22/2010 3:11:36 AM, Cerebral_Narcissist wrote:

What is your standard of evidence?

Circular. Just accept it and move on. :P
Cerebral_Narcissist
Posts: 10,806
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
6/22/2010 3:18:24 AM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 6/22/2010 3:16:45 AM, Puck wrote:
At 6/22/2010 3:11:36 AM, Cerebral_Narcissist wrote:

What is your standard of evidence?

Circular. Just accept it and move on. :P

I can't... I have issues.
I am voting for Innomen because of his intelligence, common sense, humility and the fact that Juggle appears to listen to him. Any other Presidential style would have a large sub-section of the site up in arms. If I was President I would destroy the site though elitism, others would let it run riot. Innomen represents a middle way that works, neither draconian nor anarchic and that is the only way things can work. Plus he does it all without ego trips.
Yvette
Posts: 859
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
6/22/2010 4:41:02 AM
Posted: 6 years ago
Good argument =/= correct argument. Basing beliefs on rhetoric makes little sense.
In the middle of moving to Washington. 8D

"If God does not exist, then chocolate causing cancer is only true for the society that has evidence for that." --GodSands
GeoLaureate8
Posts: 12,252
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
6/22/2010 4:46:13 AM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 6/22/2010 4:41:02 AM, Yvette wrote:
Good argument =/= correct argument. Basing beliefs on rhetoric makes little sense.

That's not what I said. A "good" argument is convincing, not the basis of beliefs. A person can stand up on a podium with perfect logic and reason, but if they're up there sounding like Ben Stein, nobody will care and will convince no one.

I'm saying that an eloquent rhetoric fused with logic and reason certainly convince people more than dry, bland arguments no matter how sound the arguments are.

Like I said though, rhetoric is what may incite a person to think about a certain point, as well as be moved by it or convinced of it.
"We must raise the standard of the Old, free, decentralized, and strictly limited Republic."
-- Murray Rothbard

"The worst thing that can happen to a good cause is, not to be skillfully attacked, but to be ineptly defended."
-- Frederic Bastiat
Cogito-ergo-sum
Posts: 36
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
6/22/2010 5:03:12 AM
Posted: 6 years ago
If you check out Hitchens Vs Wilson debate at Westminster he talks about a man being convinced by a triune frozen waterfall and accepts is a symbol of the trinity, and Hitchens rightly points out what would have happened if it had been a 4 fingered waterfall, would he not have accepted Christ as his saviour?
Yvette
Posts: 859
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
6/22/2010 5:03:19 AM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 6/21/2010 4:26:20 PM, GeoLaureate8 wrote:
For those who have had a change in beliefs, what is it that convinces you?

For me, it is rhetoric. Not logic or reason. (Albeit, rhetoric infused with logic and reason.) If you ever stumbled upon a "teacher," lecturer, or speaker, isn't it their rhetoric that captures you?


I know this has been true for me. When I seen some of my intellectual influences speak for the first time (and many times after), they usually make a hard-hitting point that is said eloquently, powerfully, and rhetorically. This event then resonates with me and changes or refines my views.

So how are you convinced?

The original post really gave the wrong impression, then.

Well-made arguments can certainly open up new perspectives, I agree--I've had my viewpoints opened because of rhetoric, that just doesn't mean it's going to change my views just because it was said well.
In the middle of moving to Washington. 8D

"If God does not exist, then chocolate causing cancer is only true for the society that has evidence for that." --GodSands
Cogito-ergo-sum
Posts: 36
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
6/22/2010 5:05:55 AM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 6/22/2010 5:03:19 AM, Yvette wrote:
At 6/21/2010 4:26:20 PM, GeoLaureate8 wrote:
For those who have had a change in beliefs, what is it that convinces you?

For me, it is rhetoric. Not logic or reason. (Albeit, rhetoric infused with logic and reason.) If you ever stumbled upon a "teacher," lecturer, or speaker, isn't it their rhetoric that captures you?


I know this has been true for me. When I seen some of my intellectual influences speak for the first time (and many times after), they usually make a hard-hitting point that is said eloquently, powerfully, and rhetorically. This event then resonates with me and changes or refines my views.

So how are you convinced?

The original post really gave the wrong impression, then.

Well-made arguments can certainly open up new perspectives, I agree--I've had my viewpoints opened because of rhetoric, that just doesn't mean it's going to change my views just because it was said well.

Very true, someone could argue very well about why slavery of Africans should be re-introduced, doesn't mean we should agree and move forwarded to make it so.
GeoLaureate8
Posts: 12,252
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
6/22/2010 5:15:12 AM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 6/22/2010 5:03:19 AM, Yvette wrote:
The original post really gave the wrong impression, then.

Well-made arguments can certainly open up new perspectives, I agree--I've had my viewpoints opened because of rhetoric,

Which was my point. Basically, we agree here.

that just doesn't mean it's going to change my views just because it was said well.

It may not immediately change views, but definitely will sway them.
"We must raise the standard of the Old, free, decentralized, and strictly limited Republic."
-- Murray Rothbard

"The worst thing that can happen to a good cause is, not to be skillfully attacked, but to be ineptly defended."
-- Frederic Bastiat
Danielle
Posts: 21,330
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
6/22/2010 7:12:36 AM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 6/22/2010 4:46:13 AM, GeoLaureate8 wrote:
At 6/22/2010 4:41:02 AM, Yvette wrote:
I'm saying that an eloquent rhetoric fused with logic and reason certainly convince people more than dry, bland arguments no matter how sound the arguments are. Like I said though, rhetoric is what may incite a person to think about a certain point, as well as be moved by it or convinced of it.

Not for me. I won't dismiss something just because it's the most boring thing ever. Have you ever read Kant? Lulz. That might not be the best example given some things he says BUT the guy wasn't all-wrong and yet reading him makes you want to gauge your eyes out. For me at least. As Yvette said, rhetoric isn't everything as one could be a great speaker but saying a lot of BS (Hitler anyone?). I know Geo you corrected it to say that what they're saying has to be reasonable but that's not the impression you gave in the OP, and also you asked what CONVINCES you and rhetoric my friend is not all that convincing. I have friends that are English majors -- I'll let them spew some BS idea very eloquently and then still rip them apart :P What convinces me is a well thought out and backed up argument ... the short answer, aside from the obvious (reasonability).
President of DDO
vivalayeo
Posts: 142
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
6/22/2010 7:44:44 AM
Posted: 6 years ago
I usually won't concede and change my way of thinking just because someone has given a speech/lecture etc, although I will concede certain point's when I believe the opposite party has a point
innomen
Posts: 10,052
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
6/22/2010 8:39:08 AM
Posted: 6 years ago
Mostly experience(s) and someone who employed logic and reasoning to connect the dots, with some interesting rhetoric mixed in, but experience has been far more a contributor to all of my growth than any learned knowledge.
Marauder
Posts: 3,271
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
6/22/2010 9:27:59 AM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 6/22/2010 3:06:21 AM, DATCMOTO wrote:
At 6/22/2010 3:00:45 AM, Cerebral_Narcissist wrote:
At 6/22/2010 2:54:38 AM, DATCMOTO wrote:
At 6/21/2010 4:26:20 PM, GeoLaureate8 wrote:
For those who have had a change in beliefs, what is it that convinces you?

For me, it is rhetoric. Not logic or reason. (Albeit, rhetoric infused with logic and reason.) If you ever stumbled upon a "teacher," lecturer, or speaker, isn't it their rhetoric that captures you?


I know this has been true for me. When I seen some of my intellectual influences speak for the first time (and many times after), they usually make a hard-hitting point that is said eloquently, powerfully, and rhetorically. This event then resonates with me and changes or refines my views.

So how are you convinced?

The Holy Spirit of Jesus Christ (God's ONLY begotten Son) spoke to me clearly, personally.

Pretty convincing I can tell you.

Thinking logically you must realise that some people who hear the voice of God are mentally ill. How can you be certain of the origin of the voice. All humans are capable of hallucination.

Absolutely Tarzan..

Narcy's nickname is Pedo, not Tarzan you paranoid person
One act of Rebellion created all the darkness and evil in the world; One life of Total Obedience created a path back to eternity and God.

A Scout is Obedient.
Marauder
Posts: 3,271
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
6/22/2010 9:32:50 AM
Posted: 6 years ago
there are for sources for ones beliefs. Reasoning, Scripture, Tradition, and Experience.

Finding balance between those is where I try to take my stand.
One act of Rebellion created all the darkness and evil in the world; One life of Total Obedience created a path back to eternity and God.

A Scout is Obedient.
Cerebral_Narcissist
Posts: 10,806
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
6/22/2010 9:35:23 AM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 6/22/2010 9:32:50 AM, Marauder wrote:
there are for sources for ones beliefs. Reasoning, Scripture, Tradition, and Experience.


Finding balance between those is where I try to take my stand.

You don't find a balance. You adopt whatever matches your preconceived non-religious lifestyle and attitude. You don't have a religion, you have a vague hope in a God that will rubber stamp everything you say, think and do.
I am voting for Innomen because of his intelligence, common sense, humility and the fact that Juggle appears to listen to him. Any other Presidential style would have a large sub-section of the site up in arms. If I was President I would destroy the site though elitism, others would let it run riot. Innomen represents a middle way that works, neither draconian nor anarchic and that is the only way things can work. Plus he does it all without ego trips.
Marauder
Posts: 3,271
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
6/22/2010 9:46:48 AM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 6/22/2010 9:35:23 AM, Cerebral_Narcissist wrote:
At 6/22/2010 9:32:50 AM, Marauder wrote:
there are for sources for ones beliefs. Reasoning, Scripture, Tradition, and Experience.


Finding balance between those is where I try to take my stand.

You don't find a balance. You adopt whatever matches your preconceived non-religious lifestyle and attitude. You don't have a religion, you have a vague hope in a God that will rubber stamp everything you say, think and do.

now you see, Narcy; I can prove at least that wrong. my preconceived religious lifestyle dictates that sinners without a redeemer go to Hell for eternity and never leave. but because I have sought balance between the 4 points of the Wesleyan Quadrilateral I am a Universalist in respect to my beliefs about Hell.

balance not based on my preconceptions.
One act of Rebellion created all the darkness and evil in the world; One life of Total Obedience created a path back to eternity and God.

A Scout is Obedient.
Cerebral_Narcissist
Posts: 10,806
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
6/22/2010 9:48:18 AM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 6/22/2010 9:46:48 AM, Marauder wrote:
At 6/22/2010 9:35:23 AM, Cerebral_Narcissist wrote:
At 6/22/2010 9:32:50 AM, Marauder wrote:
there are for sources for ones beliefs. Reasoning, Scripture, Tradition, and Experience.


Finding balance between those is where I try to take my stand.

You don't find a balance. You adopt whatever matches your preconceived non-religious lifestyle and attitude. You don't have a religion, you have a vague hope in a God that will rubber stamp everything you say, think and do.


now you see, Narcy; I can prove at least that wrong. my preconceived religious lifestyle dictates that sinners without a redeemer go to Hell for eternity and never leave.

I rest my case. That is your opinion, it's not built on solid theology.
I am voting for Innomen because of his intelligence, common sense, humility and the fact that Juggle appears to listen to him. Any other Presidential style would have a large sub-section of the site up in arms. If I was President I would destroy the site though elitism, others would let it run riot. Innomen represents a middle way that works, neither draconian nor anarchic and that is the only way things can work. Plus he does it all without ego trips.
Marauder
Posts: 3,271
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
6/22/2010 10:02:40 AM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 6/22/2010 9:48:18 AM, Cerebral_Narcissist wrote:
At 6/22/2010 9:46:48 AM, Marauder wrote:
At 6/22/2010 9:35:23 AM, Cerebral_Narcissist wrote:
At 6/22/2010 9:32:50 AM, Marauder wrote:
there are for sources for ones beliefs. Reasoning, Scripture, Tradition, and Experience.


Finding balance between those is where I try to take my stand.

You don't find a balance. You adopt whatever matches your preconceived non-religious lifestyle and attitude. You don't have a religion, you have a vague hope in a God that will rubber stamp everything you say, think and do.


now you see, Narcy; I can prove at least that wrong. my preconceived religious lifestyle dictates that sinners without a redeemer go to Hell for eternity and never leave.

I rest my case. That is your opinion, it's not built on solid theology.

just because its not the general view of hell where I live or what I was raised up to think does not mean its not on solid theology.
follow this link and you'll see its quite solid theology, consistent with all the essential doctrines of the christian faith. http://www.preteristarchive.com...
One act of Rebellion created all the darkness and evil in the world; One life of Total Obedience created a path back to eternity and God.

A Scout is Obedient.
Cerebral_Narcissist
Posts: 10,806
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
6/22/2010 10:05:14 AM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 6/22/2010 10:02:40 AM, Marauder wrote:
At 6/22/2010 9:48:18 AM, Cerebral_Narcissist wrote:
At 6/22/2010 9:46:48 AM, Marauder wrote:
At 6/22/2010 9:35:23 AM, Cerebral_Narcissist wrote:
At 6/22/2010 9:32:50 AM, Marauder wrote:
there are for sources for ones beliefs. Reasoning, Scripture, Tradition, and Experience.


Finding balance between those is where I try to take my stand.

You don't find a balance. You adopt whatever matches your preconceived non-religious lifestyle and attitude. You don't have a religion, you have a vague hope in a God that will rubber stamp everything you say, think and do.


now you see, Narcy; I can prove at least that wrong. my preconceived religious lifestyle dictates that sinners without a redeemer go to Hell for eternity and never leave.

I rest my case. That is your opinion, it's not built on solid theology.

just because its not the general view of hell where I live or what I was raised up to think does not mean its not on solid theology.
follow this link and you'll see its quite solid theology, consistent with all the essential doctrines of the christian faith. http://www.preteristarchive.com...

Gehenna, Sheol, Jesus. Case closed.
I am voting for Innomen because of his intelligence, common sense, humility and the fact that Juggle appears to listen to him. Any other Presidential style would have a large sub-section of the site up in arms. If I was President I would destroy the site though elitism, others would let it run riot. Innomen represents a middle way that works, neither draconian nor anarchic and that is the only way things can work. Plus he does it all without ego trips.
Marauder
Posts: 3,271
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
6/22/2010 10:07:48 AM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 6/22/2010 10:05:14 AM, Cerebral_Narcissist wrote:
At 6/22/2010 10:02:40 AM, Marauder wrote:
At 6/22/2010 9:48:18 AM, Cerebral_Narcissist wrote:
At 6/22/2010 9:46:48 AM, Marauder wrote:
At 6/22/2010 9:35:23 AM, Cerebral_Narcissist wrote:
At 6/22/2010 9:32:50 AM, Marauder wrote:
there are for sources for ones beliefs. Reasoning, Scripture, Tradition, and Experience.


Finding balance between those is where I try to take my stand.

You don't find a balance. You adopt whatever matches your preconceived non-religious lifestyle and attitude. You don't have a religion, you have a vague hope in a God that will rubber stamp everything you say, think and do.


now you see, Narcy; I can prove at least that wrong. my preconceived religious lifestyle dictates that sinners without a redeemer go to Hell for eternity and never leave.

I rest my case. That is your opinion, it's not built on solid theology.

just because its not the general view of hell where I live or what I was raised up to think does not mean its not on solid theology.
follow this link and you'll see its quite solid theology, consistent with all the essential doctrines of the christian faith. http://www.preteristarchive.com...

Gehenna, Sheol, Jesus. Case closed.

I know what Gehenna and Sheol are but.... what? how does that close case?
One act of Rebellion created all the darkness and evil in the world; One life of Total Obedience created a path back to eternity and God.

A Scout is Obedient.
GeoLaureate8
Posts: 12,252
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
6/22/2010 12:20:36 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 6/22/2010 7:12:36 AM, theLwerd wrote:
At 6/22/2010 4:46:13 AM, GeoLaureate8 wrote:
At 6/22/2010 4:41:02 AM, Yvette wrote:
I'm saying that an eloquent rhetoric fused with logic and reason certainly convince people more than dry, bland arguments no matter how sound the arguments are. Like I said though, rhetoric is what may incite a person to think about a certain point, as well as be moved by it or convinced of it.

Not for me. I won't dismiss something just because it's the most boring thing ever. Have you ever read Kant? Lulz. That might not be the best example given some things he says BUT the guy wasn't all-wrong and yet reading him makes you want to gauge your eyes out. For me at least. As Yvette said, rhetoric isn't everything as one could be a great speaker but saying a lot of BS (Hitler anyone?). I know Geo you corrected it to say that what they're saying has to be reasonable but that's not the impression you gave in the OP, and also you asked what CONVINCES you and rhetoric my friend is not all that convincing. I have friends that are English majors -- I'll let them spew some BS idea very eloquently and then still rip them apart :P What convinces me is a well thought out and backed up argument ... the short answer, aside from the obvious (reasonability).

If that were truly the only factor for me, I'd be accepting the rhetorical nonsense from Kent Hovind, politicians, and the like.

To be convincing, talking like Ben Stein won't help. Nor will terrible reasoning and logic.
"We must raise the standard of the Old, free, decentralized, and strictly limited Republic."
-- Murray Rothbard

"The worst thing that can happen to a good cause is, not to be skillfully attacked, but to be ineptly defended."
-- Frederic Bastiat
Kinesis
Posts: 3,667
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
6/22/2010 1:02:40 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
Everyone in existence is hopelessly steeped in their own preconceptions. People selectively accept evidence and argumentation based almost entirely on their own indoctrinated world view, as well as whether they prefer the subject at hand to be true.

People believe, on average, that they will live 10 years longer than average. Almost everyone who believes in heaven thinks they are going there. The human race sucks at objectively weighing facts and coming to reasonable conclusions. Atheists, theists and everything in-between alike.