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Religion Debates are Futile

PoeJoe
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9/30/2008 4:56:58 AM
Posted: 8 years ago
(Fifth topic ever; first in this particular board)

I believe that religion debates are futile. It is very rare (more rare than most other issues) that anyone changes their minds, and everyone gets so emotional.

Do you think they are important? And why?
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beem0r
Posts: 1,155
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9/30/2008 8:09:44 AM
Posted: 8 years ago
Maybe it's just my disagreeable nature speaking, but I don't think they're futile. While people may not change their minds, objective judging tends to focus on who made better arguments, not on whose conclusion we agree with. A Christian can vote for someone who claims that Christianity is false, for instance.

Of course, this is assuming objective judging, which is rare. People irrationally vote for what they agree with rather than answering the voting questions honestly, and there's nothing that makes people more irrational than the issue of religion.
Zerosmelt
Posts: 287
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9/30/2008 4:28:14 PM
Posted: 8 years ago
(Sorry but the "first" thing is really annoying.)

I don't believe that religious debates are futile. First of all what is the point of life if you can't get a little emotional. Its fun. =D and believe me i have a very difficult relationship with emotions. Ppl misuse them all the time.

Secondly conversion may be rare but when it happens its like a supernova explosion. And it is definitely worth it.

I also don't think it is as rare as is alleged. Often a good debate will plant a seed in someone. Getting them thinking and questioning about what they believe. It may take a few years before that seed blossoms so ppl online may never see the transformation. Eitherway questioning one's most fundamental belief is important part of being a cognitive agent (even if you don't change your mind.) Many people live their entire lives without ever questioning anything. For this reason alone religious debates are easily one of the best kinds.
Biowza
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9/30/2008 5:49:18 PM
Posted: 8 years ago
They're only futile when people like Casiopia vote bomb you on a debate which is a month old, so he can get 30 votes overnight and win.

I mean, wait what?
Rezzealaux
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9/30/2008 6:20:53 PM
Posted: 8 years ago
At 9/30/2008 5:49:18 PM, Biowza wrote:
They're only futile when people like Casiopia vote bomb you on a debate which is a month old, so he can get 30 votes overnight and win.

I mean, wait what?
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Im_always_right
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9/30/2008 6:33:23 PM
Posted: 8 years ago
Whoa even after all the religious debates I've been in I agree that they sare futile, but most things we debate are. How often do you argue with someone over gay marraige, global warming, George W. Bush, or anything else that someone changed their mind?
Puck
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9/30/2008 6:47:19 PM
Posted: 8 years ago
or anything else that someone changed their mind?

Depends on ones intent. Diminishing returns certainly if you attempt to sway opinion, however it is enjoyable to simply show someone how wrong they are to others. :D
PoeJoe
Posts: 3,822
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9/30/2008 6:53:08 PM
Posted: 8 years ago
At 9/30/2008 6:47:19 PM, Puck wrote:
or anything else that someone changed their mind?

Depends on ones intent. Diminishing returns certainly if you attempt to sway opinion, however it is enjoyable to simply show someone how wrong they are to others. :D

And moreover, the heated emotion that goes into religion debates is rather scary. Friendships are broken; judgments are made; and ridiculously trivial feuds are instigated.
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beem0r
Posts: 1,155
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9/30/2008 7:33:07 PM
Posted: 8 years ago
At 9/30/2008 6:53:08 PM, PoeJoe wrote:
And moreover, the heated emotion that goes into religion debates is rather scary. Friendships are broken; judgments are made; and ridiculously trivial feuds are instigated.

Some friendships those must have been.
Biowza
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9/30/2008 11:46:36 PM
Posted: 8 years ago
Actually, from my experience, it is not about concinving the other side they are wrong. It is about making them look foolish so that other people recognise how flawed their arguments are.
TheSkeptic
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10/1/2008 2:49:01 AM
Posted: 8 years ago
They aren't futile if the person you are debating is open-minded.

I've "de-converted" people before and that's always been awesome.
RoyLatham
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10/1/2008 4:07:57 AM
Posted: 8 years ago
Debating religion is valuable and important because religion is a prime example of an "overarching believe" -- a world view, if you will. Religion is one shorthand way of explaining a large category of things that are difficult to understand. There are numerous "isms" that serve similar functions. Atheism cannot be a religion, but if an atheist uses religion to explain most of the evils in the world, then it is one of those overarching beliefs that serves up short answers to complex questions. Religion has been around so long that most of the harmful interactions with society have been eliminated -- no human sacrifice, etc. (We all know the exceptions.)

Creationism, for example, may be poorly thought out, but it really has no effect on my life. Belief in socialism, however, causes real economic devastation. The chances of talking a socialist out of being a socialist are no greater than talking a Jehovah's Witness out of his beliefs. If you are going to debate, you better get used to it.
brian_eggleston
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10/2/2008 5:30:08 AM
Posted: 8 years ago
"Creationism, for example, may be poorly thought out, but it really has no effect on my life. Belief in socialism, however, causes real economic devastation."

Agreed the creationists' theory is pretty shaky, but wouldn't you call the virtual collapse of the international banking system as a result of unfettered capitalism "real economic devastation"? :)
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scissorhands7
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10/2/2008 8:14:33 AM
Posted: 8 years ago
I would call it Allen Greenspans personal mess.
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LR4N6FTW4EVA
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10/3/2008 3:09:20 AM
Posted: 8 years ago
Religious debates certainly no more futile than a political debate. When I read a religious debate, I don't suddenly become an atheist. When I read a politics debate, I don't suddenly become a socialist. People will keep their views the same, especially on issues like religion, unless they are blown out of the water, and everything they know is shown to be flawed.
PoeJoe
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10/3/2008 5:47:58 AM
Posted: 8 years ago
At 10/3/2008 3:09:20 AM, LR4N6FTW4EVA wrote:
Religious debates certainly no more futile than a political debate. When I read a religious debate, I don't suddenly become an atheist. When I read a politics debate, I don't suddenly become a socialist. People will keep their views the same, especially on issues like religion, unless they are blown out of the water, and everything they know is shown to be flawed.

Then that makes the pure intent of debate void-- to convince and persuade. Much more so than any other topic, people are dogmatic about their (or lack of their) religious beliefs. Not to mention, everything gets overly emotional.
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Zerosmelt
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10/3/2008 7:51:43 AM
Posted: 8 years ago

Then that makes the pure intent of debate void-- to convince and persuade.

You think the intent of debate is to convince and persuade.... lol! Debating in probably the least effective way to convince somone of anything. Perhaps if people listened to reason, but people don't. Debate is all about one side VERSES another side. Its all about competition and people defending their egos. It has little to do with actually discerning truth. If you want to convince and persuade the first thing you must do is get the person your trying to persuade to think he is on your side. That he is part of your group/tribe. The religious people figured this out a long time ago. Mormons don't knock on your door and then start debating you... lol. Once you create an US and THEM attitude its all over. Instead they become buddy buddy with you. They invite to hang out at their little pray parties etc. etc.
my.matryoshka
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10/7/2008 9:44:22 AM
Posted: 8 years ago
I think they're just as futile as any other debate topic. Just another way to flex your muscles and show off the knowledge you have in the area in question.
Ragnar_Rahl
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10/7/2008 11:20:50 AM
Posted: 8 years ago
"
Agreed the creationists' theory is pretty shaky, but wouldn't you call the virtual collapse of the international banking system as a result of unfettered capitalism "real economic devastation"? :)"
I wouldn't call the SOCIALIST policy of printing money with a national bank, making laws that you have to loan it to the poor, and insuring deposits by government fiat "Unfettered capitalism."
It came to be at its height. It was commanded to command. It was a capital before its first stone was laid. It was a monument to the spirit of man.
Ragnar_Rahl
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10/7/2008 11:21:49 AM
Posted: 8 years ago
As for the main topic... you don't have to convert the person you are arguing with, just occasionally convert the audience, some of whom may not have formed an opinion yet, to make it worthwhile :D.
It came to be at its height. It was commanded to command. It was a capital before its first stone was laid. It was a monument to the spirit of man.
DiablosChaosBroker
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12/6/2008 12:31:12 PM
Posted: 8 years ago
Actually I think that religion debates lets people have the chance to defend their faith and belief. It also demonstrates how much does an atheist and believer knows. It may be true that old arguments may be repeated, but there is no irrefutable evidence for either atheist or believers. 6 billion believers would be insane for believing in God if there is irrefutable evidence that God doesn't exist. However, since there is not, and if religion debates are futile, most likely all debates are. Because most debate topics are repeated over and over again. That's what I think.
Comic_Sans
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12/12/2008 11:08:52 PM
Posted: 7 years ago
i agree with DCB, the one benefit of religious debates is that they can expand your faith. they have almost become like bibles for me in really hard times.
comoncents
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9/12/2009 10:06:57 PM
Posted: 7 years ago
At 9/30/2008 4:56:58 AM, PoeJoe wrote:
(Fifth topic ever; first in this particular board)

I believe that religion debates are futile. It is very rare (more rare than most other issues) that anyone changes their minds, and everyone gets so emotional.

Do you think they are important? And why?

they are not futile in the eyes of a believer as they feel it is there job to convert you into there cult.
regebro
Posts: 1,152
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9/13/2009 11:44:45 PM
Posted: 7 years ago
(I know it's an old topic popping up).

At 9/30/2008 4:56:58 AM, PoeJoe wrote:
(Fifth topic ever; first in this particular board)

I believe that religion debates are futile. It is very rare (more rare than most other issues) that anyone changes their minds, and everyone gets so emotional.

You can change that to:

I believe that debates are futile. It is very rare that anyone changes their minds, and everyone gets so emotional.

This in my opinion is because people tend to be delusional and overrate their own intelligence, and at the same time not do a debate with the object of learning anything, but instead they debate so that they can confirm their own position to themselves. They get emotional when this fails, and their self-delusion means that they are unable to admit that they where wrong.

Religious debates are in my experience not any different.
So prove me wrong, then.
comoncents
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9/14/2009 12:22:14 AM
Posted: 7 years ago
At 9/13/2009 11:44:45 PM, regebro wrote:
(I know it's an old topic popping up).

At 9/30/2008 4:56:58 AM, PoeJoe wrote:
(Fifth topic ever; first in this particular board)

I believe that religion debates are futile. It is very rare (more rare than most other issues) that anyone changes their minds, and everyone gets so emotional.

You can change that to:

I believe that debates are futile. It is very rare that anyone changes their minds, and everyone gets so emotional.


This in my opinion is because people tend to be delusional and overrate their own intelligence, and at the same time not do a debate with the object of learning anything, but instead they debate so that they can confirm their own position to themselves. They get emotional when this fails, and their self-delusion means that they are unable to admit that they where wrong.

Religious debates are in my experience not any different.

AMEN!
DATCMOTO
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9/14/2009 4:42:52 AM
Posted: 7 years ago
At 9/30/2008 4:56:58 AM, PoeJoe wrote:
(Fifth topic ever; first in this particular board)

I believe that religion debates are futile. It is very rare (more rare than most other issues) that anyone changes their minds, and everyone gets so emotional.

Do you think they are important? And why?

Sure. Before this debate JCMT was an insufferble bully who thought he knew it all. Now he's an insufferable bully 'with doubts'.
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bossyburrito
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10/16/2012 7:39:51 AM
Posted: 4 years ago
Probably. Depends on the person being argued with.
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DanielChristopherBlowes
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10/16/2012 8:03:26 AM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 9/30/2008 4:56:58 AM, PoeJoe wrote:
(Fifth topic ever; first in this particular board)

I believe that religion debates are futile. It is very rare (more rare than most other issues) that anyone changes their minds, and everyone gets so emotional.

Do you think they are important? And why?

Depends if you love the Truth or not..
Everyone on the side of Truth listens to Me. (Jesus Christ)