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Unnatural events in the Bible?

Skepticalone
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1/20/2015 9:25:32 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
Matthew 27:45
Now from the sixth hour darkness fell upon all the land until the ninth hour.

I have heard many people explain this as an eclipse, but an eclipse does not last for 3 hours. Is it literal, and if so how do you explain it other than magic (un-falsifiable). Also,why were there no accounts of 3 hours of darkness outside of the Bible between 30-33 AD?

I would very much like to see a discussion on this or any other unusual events in the Bible which defy what we know of nature.
This thread is like eavesdropping on a conversation in a mental asylum. - Bulproof

You can call your invisible friends whatever you like. - Desmac

What the hell kind of coked up sideshow has this thread turned into. - Casten
TheAnonymousTipster
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1/20/2015 9:31:16 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
Unnatural events? Where to begin...

I guess the problem is they didn't understand nature when they authored it.
JJ50
Posts: 2,144
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1/20/2015 9:33:13 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
Biblical writers either exaggerated perfectly normal events, or made things up to make the tale they were telling more interesting, imo.
dhardage
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1/20/2015 9:35:17 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
I'd say a sea being forced to part and the land at the bottom being dry and firm enough to support a population of thousands as they walked across could be considered unnatural. Even if you can accept millions of gallons of water being held back by some force, the sea bed would be covered with all the dirt, dead animals, algae, and anything else that sank into it. It would be a pelagic ooze, not a viable surface for walking or taking carts and wagons on. Clearly this did not happen.
SNP1
Posts: 2,403
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1/20/2015 9:37:26 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 1/20/2015 9:25:32 AM, Skepticalone wrote:
Matthew 27:45
Now from the sixth hour darkness fell upon all the land until the ninth hour.

I have heard many people explain this as an eclipse, but an eclipse does not last for 3 hours. Is it literal, and if so how do you explain it other than magic (un-falsifiable). Also,why were there no accounts of 3 hours of darkness outside of the Bible between 30-33 AD?

I would very much like to see a discussion on this or any other unusual events in the Bible which defy what we know of nature.

The eclipse hypothesis is bull**** since the only type of eclipse that could happen at passover is a lunar eclipse (if I remember correctly).
#TheApatheticNihilistPartyofAmerica
#WarOnDDO
Skepticalone
Posts: 6,095
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1/20/2015 9:45:25 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 1/20/2015 9:37:26 AM, SNP1 wrote:
At 1/20/2015 9:25:32 AM, Skepticalone wrote:
Matthew 27:45
Now from the sixth hour darkness fell upon all the land until the ninth hour.

I have heard many people explain this as an eclipse, but an eclipse does not last for 3 hours. Is it literal, and if so how do you explain it other than magic (un-falsifiable). Also,why were there no accounts of 3 hours of darkness outside of the Bible between 30-33 AD?

I would very much like to see a discussion on this or any other unusual events in the Bible which defy what we know of nature.

The eclipse hypothesis is bull**** since the only type of eclipse that could happen at passover is a lunar eclipse (if I remember correctly).

Yes, that is true also, but since an eclipse only last for about 7.5 minutes, I didn't figure that was worth mentioning. Mainly, I am curious how this type of event is reconciled by believers. Is magic assumed and the event accepted on those grounds? ..or is it just accepted as fact, and an explanation is not necessary because it is in the Bible?
This thread is like eavesdropping on a conversation in a mental asylum. - Bulproof

You can call your invisible friends whatever you like. - Desmac

What the hell kind of coked up sideshow has this thread turned into. - Casten
MadCornishBiker
Posts: 23,302
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1/20/2015 9:55:28 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 1/20/2015 9:25:32 AM, Skepticalone wrote:
Matthew 27:45
Now from the sixth hour darkness fell upon all the land until the ninth hour.

I have heard many people explain this as an eclipse, but an eclipse does not last for 3 hours. Is it literal, and if so how do you explain it other than magic (un-falsifiable). Also,why were there no accounts of 3 hours of darkness outside of the Bible between 30-33 AD?

I would very much like to see a discussion on this or any other unusual events in the Bible which defy what we know of nature.

The trouble is that people who doubt that these things are real, or who try to rationalise away the events are denying the power of God.

He created everything, including the laws of physics etc.

Having created them, do you not think he can control them?

Just because we are incapable of affecting things like Gravity, does not mean that the creator of everything, including gravity cannot do so.

Could the God who caused the moon and the earth to exist not control it so that an eclipse, if such it was, last for exactly as long as he wished it to?

Of course he could, but the real point is that no matter how he did it, he has the power and ability to do that and much more.

The Gibeonites were part of an alliance of 5 powerful nations who were violently opposed to Israel, and determined to destroy it.

However the Gibeonites were smarter than that, and made an alliance with Israel, and were accepted.

As you can imagine, that made the other 4 extremely angry, and they turned on Gibeon, not a particularly large part of the former alliance.

Did God say "you aren"t my people so tough"?

No he didn"t, he accepted that Gibeon had made an alliance with Israel and sent Joshua out, with the fighting men of Israel, to defend them.

Not only that, bu7t in defence of a non-Israelite ally, he performed the greatest miracle he has ever performed, and in answer to the prayer of Joshua at that.

He made the "sun appear to stand still in the sky for almost a whole day".

How he did it, we may never know, but logic says that he either slowed, or stopped the rotation of the earth for a while.

What about Gravity?

Well what about it? God has the power to either reduce it, or to counter the effects of it at will and at need.

There are others

Only a fool underestimates the power and ability of the God and creator of all things.
dhardage
Posts: 4,545
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1/20/2015 10:04:26 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 1/20/2015 9:55:28 AM, MadCornishBiker wrote:
At 1/20/2015 9:25:32 AM, Skepticalone wrote:
Matthew 27:45
Now from the sixth hour darkness fell upon all the land until the ninth hour.

I have heard many people explain this as an eclipse, but an eclipse does not last for 3 hours. Is it literal, and if so how do you explain it other than magic (un-falsifiable). Also,why were there no accounts of 3 hours of darkness outside of the Bible between 30-33 AD?

I would very much like to see a discussion on this or any other unusual events in the Bible which defy what we know of nature.

The trouble is that people who doubt that these things are real, or who try to rationalise away the events are denying the power of God.

He created everything, including the laws of physics etc.

Having created them, do you not think he can control them?

Just because we are incapable of affecting things like Gravity, does not mean that the creator of everything, including gravity cannot do so.

Could the God who caused the moon and the earth to exist not control it so that an eclipse, if such it was, last for exactly as long as he wished it to?

Of course he could, but the real point is that no matter how he did it, he has the power and ability to do that and much more.

The Gibeonites were part of an alliance of 5 powerful nations who were violently opposed to Israel, and determined to destroy it.

However the Gibeonites were smarter than that, and made an alliance with Israel, and were accepted.

As you can imagine, that made the other 4 extremely angry, and they turned on Gibeon, not a particularly large part of the former alliance.

Did God say "you aren"t my people so tough"?

No he didn"t, he accepted that Gibeon had made an alliance with Israel and sent Joshua out, with the fighting men of Israel, to defend them.

Not only that, bu7t in defence of a non-Israelite ally, he performed the greatest miracle he has ever performed, and in answer to the prayer of Joshua at that.

He made the "sun appear to stand still in the sky for almost a whole day".

How he did it, we may never know, but logic says that he either slowed, or stopped the rotation of the earth for a while.

What about Gravity?

Well what about it? God has the power to either reduce it, or to counter the effects of it at will and at need.

There are others

Only a fool underestimates the power and ability of the God and creator of all things.

And you believe what is written in a book, tales told by ignorant primitives who had no idea that the laws of physics existed, that the sun's apparent movement is determined by the rotation of the planet, and stopping it suddenly would kill every living thing on it. You accept it as true despite having no other evidence to support it and knowing it violates the way the world actually works. Who then, is the fool?
MadCornishBiker
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1/20/2015 10:19:08 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 1/20/2015 10:04:26 AM, dhardage wrote:
At 1/20/2015 9:55:28 AM, MadCornishBiker wrote:
At 1/20/2015 9:25:32 AM, Skepticalone wrote:
Matthew 27:45
Now from the sixth hour darkness fell upon all the land until the ninth hour.

I have heard many people explain this as an eclipse, but an eclipse does not last for 3 hours. Is it literal, and if so how do you explain it other than magic (un-falsifiable). Also,why were there no accounts of 3 hours of darkness outside of the Bible between 30-33 AD?

I would very much like to see a discussion on this or any other unusual events in the Bible which defy what we know of nature.

The trouble is that people who doubt that these things are real, or who try to rationalise away the events are denying the power of God.

He created everything, including the laws of physics etc.

Having created them, do you not think he can control them?

Just because we are incapable of affecting things like Gravity, does not mean that the creator of everything, including gravity cannot do so.

Could the God who caused the moon and the earth to exist not control it so that an eclipse, if such it was, last for exactly as long as he wished it to?

Of course he could, but the real point is that no matter how he did it, he has the power and ability to do that and much more.

The Gibeonites were part of an alliance of 5 powerful nations who were violently opposed to Israel, and determined to destroy it.

However the Gibeonites were smarter than that, and made an alliance with Israel, and were accepted.

As you can imagine, that made the other 4 extremely angry, and they turned on Gibeon, not a particularly large part of the former alliance.

Did God say "you aren"t my people so tough"?

No he didn"t, he accepted that Gibeon had made an alliance with Israel and sent Joshua out, with the fighting men of Israel, to defend them.

Not only that, bu7t in defence of a non-Israelite ally, he performed the greatest miracle he has ever performed, and in answer to the prayer of Joshua at that.

He made the "sun appear to stand still in the sky for almost a whole day".

How he did it, we may never know, but logic says that he either slowed, or stopped the rotation of the earth for a while.

What about Gravity?

Well what about it? God has the power to either reduce it, or to counter the effects of it at will and at need.

There are others

Only a fool underestimates the power and ability of the God and creator of all things.

And you believe what is written in a book, tales told by ignorant primitives who had no idea that the laws of physics existed, that the sun's apparent movement is determined by the rotation of the planet, and stopping it suddenly would kill every living thing on it. You accept it as true despite having no other evidence to support it and knowing it violates the way the world actually works. Who then, is the fool?

No, as I said, I accept it because of the evidence that supports it, as do a slowly growing band of scientists.

The fool is the one who ignores or denies the evidence that is plainly there.

I believe it because it has proved to be too accurate and reliable to simply be the word of man.

Do you not think that God could prevent such damage being caused?

Of course he could.

The bible may have been written down by ignorant men who had no knowledge of how things happen, but that is what makes the fact that they can tell us accurately thing that they could not possibly have known.

I know you won"t accept it, simply because you don"t want to, but I do not take the word of the men who wrote the bible, even less those who translated it. I take the word of the God who inspired it, and he knows all there is to know.

All you have done with your reply is help to prove both me, and scriptures, right.
dhardage
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1/20/2015 10:30:06 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 1/20/2015 10:19:08 AM, MadCornishBiker wrote:
At 1/20/2015 10:04:26 AM, dhardage wrote:
At 1/20/2015 9:55:28 AM, MadCornishBiker wrote:
At 1/20/2015 9:25:32 AM, Skepticalone wrote:
Matthew 27:45
Now from the sixth hour darkness fell upon all the land until the ninth hour.

I have heard many people explain this as an eclipse, but an eclipse does not last for 3 hours. Is it literal, and if so how do you explain it other than magic (un-falsifiable). Also,why were there no accounts of 3 hours of darkness outside of the Bible between 30-33 AD?

I would very much like to see a discussion on this or any other unusual events in the Bible which defy what we know of nature.

The trouble is that people who doubt that these things are real, or who try to rationalise away the events are denying the power of God.

He created everything, including the laws of physics etc.

Having created them, do you not think he can control them?

Just because we are incapable of affecting things like Gravity, does not mean that the creator of everything, including gravity cannot do so.

Could the God who caused the moon and the earth to exist not control it so that an eclipse, if such it was, last for exactly as long as he wished it to?

Of course he could, but the real point is that no matter how he did it, he has the power and ability to do that and much more.

The Gibeonites were part of an alliance of 5 powerful nations who were violently opposed to Israel, and determined to destroy it.

However the Gibeonites were smarter than that, and made an alliance with Israel, and were accepted.

As you can imagine, that made the other 4 extremely angry, and they turned on Gibeon, not a particularly large part of the former alliance.

Did God say "you aren"t my people so tough"?

No he didn"t, he accepted that Gibeon had made an alliance with Israel and sent Joshua out, with the fighting men of Israel, to defend them.

Not only that, bu7t in defence of a non-Israelite ally, he performed the greatest miracle he has ever performed, and in answer to the prayer of Joshua at that.

He made the "sun appear to stand still in the sky for almost a whole day".

How he did it, we may never know, but logic says that he either slowed, or stopped the rotation of the earth for a while.

What about Gravity?

Well what about it? God has the power to either reduce it, or to counter the effects of it at will and at need.

There are others

Only a fool underestimates the power and ability of the God and creator of all things.

And you believe what is written in a book, tales told by ignorant primitives who had no idea that the laws of physics existed, that the sun's apparent movement is determined by the rotation of the planet, and stopping it suddenly would kill every living thing on it. You accept it as true despite having no other evidence to support it and knowing it violates the way the world actually works. Who then, is the fool?

No, as I said, I accept it because of the evidence that supports it, as do a slowly growing band of scientists.

The fool is the one who ignores or denies the evidence that is plainly there.

I believe it because it has proved to be too accurate and reliable to simply be the word of man.

Do you not think that God could prevent such damage being caused?

Of course he could.

The bible may have been written down by ignorant men who had no knowledge of how things happen, but that is what makes the fact that they can tell us accurately thing that they could not possibly have known.

I know you won"t accept it, simply because you don"t want to, but I do not take the word of the men who wrote the bible, even less those who translated it. I take the word of the God who inspired it, and he knows all there is to know.

All you have done with your reply is help to prove both me, and scriptures, right.

Name these scientists and give me the studies they have done to support any biblical supernatural occurrence and we can have a discussion. Until you do, you' are but empty words.,
DanneJeRusse
Posts: 12,609
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1/20/2015 10:40:54 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 1/20/2015 9:55:28 AM, MadCornishBiker wrote:
At 1/20/2015 9:25:32 AM, Skepticalone wrote:
Matthew 27:45
Now from the sixth hour darkness fell upon all the land until the ninth hour.

I have heard many people explain this as an eclipse, but an eclipse does not last for 3 hours. Is it literal, and if so how do you explain it other than magic (un-falsifiable). Also,why were there no accounts of 3 hours of darkness outside of the Bible between 30-33 AD?

I would very much like to see a discussion on this or any other unusual events in the Bible which defy what we know of nature.

The trouble is that people who doubt that these things are real, or who try to rationalise away the events are denying the power of God.

He created everything, including the laws of physics etc.

Having created them, do you not think he can control them?

Just because we are incapable of affecting things like Gravity, does not mean that the creator of everything, including gravity cannot do so.

Could the God who caused the moon and the earth to exist not control it so that an eclipse, if such it was, last for exactly as long as he wished it to?

Of course he could, but the real point is that no matter how he did it, he has the power and ability to do that and much more.

The Gibeonites were part of an alliance of 5 powerful nations who were violently opposed to Israel, and determined to destroy it.

However the Gibeonites were smarter than that, and made an alliance with Israel, and were accepted.

As you can imagine, that made the other 4 extremely angry, and they turned on Gibeon, not a particularly large part of the former alliance.

Did God say "you aren"t my people so tough"?

No he didn"t, he accepted that Gibeon had made an alliance with Israel and sent Joshua out, with the fighting men of Israel, to defend them.

Not only that, bu7t in defence of a non-Israelite ally, he performed the greatest miracle he has ever performed, and in answer to the prayer of Joshua at that.

He made the "sun appear to stand still in the sky for almost a whole day".

How he did it, we may never know, but logic says that he either slowed, or stopped the rotation of the earth for a while.

What about Gravity?

Well what about it? God has the power to either reduce it, or to counter the effects of it at will and at need.

There are others

Only a fool underestimates the power and ability of the God and creator of all things.

Only a fool would believe in that stuff. None of it is verifiable and merely shows those who wrote it are as ignorant and deluded as those who believe it.
Marrying a 6 year old and waiting until she reaches puberty and maturity before having consensual sex is better than walking up to
a stranger in a bar and proceeding to have relations with no valid proof of the intent of the person. Muhammad wins. ~ Fatihah
If they don't want to be killed then they have to subdue to the Islamic laws. - Uncung
Without God, you are lower than sh!t. ~ SpiritandTruth
MadCornishBiker
Posts: 23,302
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1/20/2015 10:40:55 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 1/20/2015 10:30:06 AM, dhardage wrote:
At 1/20/2015 10:19:08 AM, MadCornishBiker wrote:
At 1/20/2015 10:04:26 AM, dhardage wrote:
At 1/20/2015 9:55:28 AM, MadCornishBiker wrote:
At 1/20/2015 9:25:32 AM, Skepticalone wrote:
Matthew 27:45
Now from the sixth hour darkness fell upon all the land until the ninth hour.

I have heard many people explain this as an eclipse, but an eclipse does not last for 3 hours. Is it literal, and if so how do you explain it other than magic (un-falsifiable). Also,why were there no accounts of 3 hours of darkness outside of the Bible between 30-33 AD?

I would very much like to see a discussion on this or any other unusual events in the Bible which defy what we know of nature.

The trouble is that people who doubt that these things are real, or who try to rationalise away the events are denying the power of God.

He created everything, including the laws of physics etc.

Having created them, do you not think he can control them?

Just because we are incapable of affecting things like Gravity, does not mean that the creator of everything, including gravity cannot do so.

Could the God who caused the moon and the earth to exist not control it so that an eclipse, if such it was, last for exactly as long as he wished it to?

Of course he could, but the real point is that no matter how he did it, he has the power and ability to do that and much more.

The Gibeonites were part of an alliance of 5 powerful nations who were violently opposed to Israel, and determined to destroy it.

However the Gibeonites were smarter than that, and made an alliance with Israel, and were accepted.

As you can imagine, that made the other 4 extremely angry, and they turned on Gibeon, not a particularly large part of the former alliance.

Did God say "you aren"t my people so tough"?

No he didn"t, he accepted that Gibeon had made an alliance with Israel and sent Joshua out, with the fighting men of Israel, to defend them.

Not only that, bu7t in defence of a non-Israelite ally, he performed the greatest miracle he has ever performed, and in answer to the prayer of Joshua at that.

He made the "sun appear to stand still in the sky for almost a whole day".

How he did it, we may never know, but logic says that he either slowed, or stopped the rotation of the earth for a while.

What about Gravity?

Well what about it? God has the power to either reduce it, or to counter the effects of it at will and at need.

There are others

Only a fool underestimates the power and ability of the God and creator of all things.

And you believe what is written in a book, tales told by ignorant primitives who had no idea that the laws of physics existed, that the sun's apparent movement is determined by the rotation of the planet, and stopping it suddenly would kill every living thing on it. You accept it as true despite having no other evidence to support it and knowing it violates the way the world actually works. Who then, is the fool?

No, as I said, I accept it because of the evidence that supports it, as do a slowly growing band of scientists.

The fool is the one who ignores or denies the evidence that is plainly there.

I believe it because it has proved to be too accurate and reliable to simply be the word of man.

Do you not think that God could prevent such damage being caused?

Of course he could.

The bible may have been written down by ignorant men who had no knowledge of how things happen, but that is what makes the fact that they can tell us accurately thing that they could not possibly have known.

I know you won"t accept it, simply because you don"t want to, but I do not take the word of the men who wrote the bible, even less those who translated it. I take the word of the God who inspired it, and he knows all there is to know.

All you have done with your reply is help to prove both me, and scriptures, right.

Name these scientists and give me the studies they have done to support any biblical supernatural occurrence and we can have a discussion. Until you do, you' are but empty words.

I can give you links to some of their stories, as I have offered many times, but that is the best I can do. Not sure I am inclined to do more.

http://wol.jw.org...

http://wol.jw.org...

http://wol.jw.org...

http://wol.jw.org...

http://wol.jw.org...

http://wol.jw.org...

I doubt it will make any difference to you because you re obviously, from past experience with you, determined to avoid the most obvious evidences of God and the accuracy of scripture, but I guess I got to try.

Where there is life there is hope, but not always much hope.
Geogeer
Posts: 4,244
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1/20/2015 10:41:48 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 1/20/2015 9:25:32 AM, Skepticalone wrote:
Matthew 27:45
Now from the sixth hour darkness fell upon all the land until the ninth hour.

I have heard many people explain this as an eclipse, but an eclipse does not last for 3 hours. Is it literal, and if so how do you explain it other than magic (un-falsifiable). Also,why were there no accounts of 3 hours of darkness outside of the Bible between 30-33 AD?

I would very much like to see a discussion on this or any other unusual events in the Bible which defy what we know of nature.

There are a variety of possibilities, however we'll probably never know.

One possible further explanation is that this darkness was caused by "Earthquake smog", a precursor of an upcoming earthquake. A similar occurrence occurred during the New Madrid Earthquake of 1811"12. The skies turned dark during the earthquakes, so dark that lighted lamps didn"t help. The air smelled bad, and it was hard to breathe. It is speculated that it was smog containing dust particles caused by the eruption of warm water into cold air. This type of event has been witnessed for thousands of years and was once thought to be the cause of Earthquakes. Aristotle describes some of the fog"s properties: "Again, our theory is supported by the facts that the sun appears hazy and is darkened in the absence of clouds, and that there is sometimes calm and sharp frost before earthquakes at sunrise." Today, we know that these events are seen as earthquake precursors by modern science.

http://en.wikipedia.org...
Skepticalone
Posts: 6,095
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1/20/2015 10:50:07 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 1/20/2015 9:55:28 AM, MadCornishBiker wrote:
At 1/20/2015 9:25:32 AM, Skepticalone wrote:
Matthew 27:45
Now from the sixth hour darkness fell upon all the land until the ninth hour.

I have heard many people explain this as an eclipse, but an eclipse does not last for 3 hours. Is it literal, and if so how do you explain it other than magic (un-falsifiable). Also,why were there no accounts of 3 hours of darkness outside of the Bible between 30-33 AD?

I would very much like to see a discussion on this or any other unusual events in the Bible which defy what we know of nature.

The trouble is that people who doubt that these things are real, or who try to rationalise away the events are denying the power of God.

He created everything, including the laws of physics etc.

Having created them, do you not think he can control them?

Just because we are incapable of affecting things like Gravity, does not mean that the creator of everything, including gravity cannot do so.

Could the God who caused the moon and the earth to exist not control it so that an eclipse, if such it was, last for exactly as long as he wished it to?

Of course he could, but the real point is that no matter how he did it, he has the power and ability to do that and much more.

The Gibeonites were part of an alliance of 5 powerful nations who were violently opposed to Israel, and determined to destroy it.

However the Gibeonites were smarter than that, and made an alliance with Israel, and were accepted.

As you can imagine, that made the other 4 extremely angry, and they turned on Gibeon, not a particularly large part of the former alliance.

Did God say "you aren"t my people so tough"?

No he didn"t, he accepted that Gibeon had made an alliance with Israel and sent Joshua out, with the fighting men of Israel, to defend them.

Not only that, bu7t in defence of a non-Israelite ally, he performed the greatest miracle he has ever performed, and in answer to the prayer of Joshua at that.

He made the "sun appear to stand still in the sky for almost a whole day".

How he did it, we may never know, but logic says that he either slowed, or stopped the rotation of the earth for a while.

What about Gravity?

Well what about it? God has the power to either reduce it, or to counter the effects of it at will and at need.

There are others

Only a fool underestimates the power and ability of the God and creator of all things.

You choose not to provide any falsifiable justification. One for unfalsifiable. Thank you for your input.
This thread is like eavesdropping on a conversation in a mental asylum. - Bulproof

You can call your invisible friends whatever you like. - Desmac

What the hell kind of coked up sideshow has this thread turned into. - Casten
Skepticalone
Posts: 6,095
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1/20/2015 10:52:38 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 1/20/2015 10:41:48 AM, Geogeer wrote:
At 1/20/2015 9:25:32 AM, Skepticalone wrote:
Matthew 27:45
Now from the sixth hour darkness fell upon all the land until the ninth hour.

I have heard many people explain this as an eclipse, but an eclipse does not last for 3 hours. Is it literal, and if so how do you explain it other than magic (un-falsifiable). Also,why were there no accounts of 3 hours of darkness outside of the Bible between 30-33 AD?

I would very much like to see a discussion on this or any other unusual events in the Bible which defy what we know of nature.

There are a variety of possibilities, however we'll probably never know.

One possible further explanation is that this darkness was caused by "Earthquake smog", a precursor of an upcoming earthquake. A similar occurrence occurred during the New Madrid Earthquake of 1811"12. The skies turned dark during the earthquakes, so dark that lighted lamps didn"t help. The air smelled bad, and it was hard to breathe. It is speculated that it was smog containing dust particles caused by the eruption of warm water into cold air. This type of event has been witnessed for thousands of years and was once thought to be the cause of Earthquakes. Aristotle describes some of the fog"s properties: "Again, our theory is supported by the facts that the sun appears hazy and is darkened in the absence of clouds, and that there is sometimes calm and sharp frost before earthquakes at sunrise." Today, we know that these events are seen as earthquake precursors by modern science.

http://en.wikipedia.org...

I have seen this explanation and I find it plausible. Do we have any evidence outside of the Bible for an earthquake between 30-33 AD that occurred in Jerusalem?
This thread is like eavesdropping on a conversation in a mental asylum. - Bulproof

You can call your invisible friends whatever you like. - Desmac

What the hell kind of coked up sideshow has this thread turned into. - Casten
dhardage
Posts: 4,545
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1/20/2015 11:20:05 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 1/20/2015 10:40:55 AM, MadCornishBiker wrote:
At 1/20/2015 10:30:06 AM, dhardage wrote:
At 1/20/2015 10:19:08 AM, MadCornishBiker wrote:
At 1/20/2015 10:04:26 AM, dhardage wrote:
At 1/20/2015 9:55:28 AM, MadCornishBiker wrote:
At 1/20/2015 9:25:32 AM, Skepticalone wrote:
Matthew 27:45
Now from the sixth hour darkness fell upon all the land until the ninth hour.

I have heard many people explain this as an eclipse, but an eclipse does not last for 3 hours. Is it literal, and if so how do you explain it other than magic (un-falsifiable). Also,why were there no accounts of 3 hours of darkness outside of the Bible between 30-33 AD?

I would very much like to see a discussion on this or any other unusual events in the Bible which defy what we know of nature.

The trouble is that people who doubt that these things are real, or who try to rationalise away the events are denying the power of God.

He created everything, including the laws of physics etc.

Having created them, do you not think he can control them?

Just because we are incapable of affecting things like Gravity, does not mean that the creator of everything, including gravity cannot do so.

Could the God who caused the moon and the earth to exist not control it so that an eclipse, if such it was, last for exactly as long as he wished it to?

Of course he could, but the real point is that no matter how he did it, he has the power and ability to do that and much more.

The Gibeonites were part of an alliance of 5 powerful nations who were violently opposed to Israel, and determined to destroy it.

However the Gibeonites were smarter than that, and made an alliance with Israel, and were accepted.

As you can imagine, that made the other 4 extremely angry, and they turned on Gibeon, not a particularly large part of the former alliance.

Did God say "you aren"t my people so tough"?

No he didn"t, he accepted that Gibeon had made an alliance with Israel and sent Joshua out, with the fighting men of Israel, to defend them.

Not only that, bu7t in defence of a non-Israelite ally, he performed the greatest miracle he has ever performed, and in answer to the prayer of Joshua at that.

He made the "sun appear to stand still in the sky for almost a whole day".

How he did it, we may never know, but logic says that he either slowed, or stopped the rotation of the earth for a while.

What about Gravity?

Well what about it? God has the power to either reduce it, or to counter the effects of it at will and at need.

There are others

Only a fool underestimates the power and ability of the God and creator of all things.

And you believe what is written in a book, tales told by ignorant primitives who had no idea that the laws of physics existed, that the sun's apparent movement is determined by the rotation of the planet, and stopping it suddenly would kill every living thing on it. You accept it as true despite having no other evidence to support it and knowing it violates the way the world actually works. Who then, is the fool?

No, as I said, I accept it because of the evidence that supports it, as do a slowly growing band of scientists.

The fool is the one who ignores or denies the evidence that is plainly there.

I believe it because it has proved to be too accurate and reliable to simply be the word of man.

Do you not think that God could prevent such damage being caused?

Of course he could.

The bible may have been written down by ignorant men who had no knowledge of how things happen, but that is what makes the fact that they can tell us accurately thing that they could not possibly have known.

I know you won"t accept it, simply because you don"t want to, but I do not take the word of the men who wrote the bible, even less those who translated it. I take the word of the God who inspired it, and he knows all there is to know.

All you have done with your reply is help to prove both me, and scriptures, right.

Name these scientists and give me the studies they have done to support any biblical supernatural occurrence and we can have a discussion. Until you do, you' are but empty words.


I can give you links to some of their stories, as I have offered many times, but that is the best I can do. Not sure I am inclined to do more.

http://wol.jw.org...

http://wol.jw.org...

http://wol.jw.org...

http://wol.jw.org...

http://wol.jw.org...

http://wol.jw.org...

I doubt it will make any difference to you because you re obviously, from past experience with you, determined to avoid the most obvious evidences of God and the accuracy of scripture, but I guess I got to try.

Where there is life there is hope, but not always much hope.

All you have provided is a bunch of links to your Jehova's Witness web site. NONE of this 'evidence' has been peer reviewed, no studies conducted, and no real data presented. All of these people just see 'God' in the world and decided to abandon reason and rationality. That's if any of them were ever anything but Christians and believers in the God of Abraham. This is not any kind of evidence for your assertions and definitely not evidence that any of the miraculous events in the your holy book every occurred.
RoderickSpode
Posts: 2,372
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1/20/2015 11:22:25 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 1/20/2015 9:25:32 AM, Skepticalone wrote:
Matthew 27:45
Now from the sixth hour darkness fell upon all the land until the ninth hour.

I have heard many people explain this as an eclipse, but an eclipse does not last for 3 hours. Is it literal, and if so how do you explain it other than magic (un-falsifiable). Also,why were there no accounts of 3 hours of darkness outside of the Bible between 30-33 AD?

I would very much like to see a discussion on this or any other unusual events in the Bible which defy what we know of nature.
I personally favor Ellicott's commentary. It's actually key that not only is there not any outside reference to the event, the event is independent of the other gospels.

Darkness over all the land."Better so than the "earth" of the Authorised version of Luke 23:44. The degree and nature of the darkness are not defined. The moon was at its full, and therefore there could be no eclipse. St. John does not name it, nor is it recorded by Josephus, Tacitus, or any contemporary writer. On the other hand, its appearance in records in many respects so independent of each other as those of the three Gospels places it, even as the common grounds of historical probability, on a sufficiently firm basis, and early Christian writers, such as Tertullian (Apol. c. 21) and Origen (100 Cels. ii. 33), appeal to it as attested by heathen writers. The narrative does not necessarily involve more than the indescribable yet most oppressive gloom which seems to shroud the whole sky as in mourning (comp. Amos 8:9-10), and which being a not uncommon phenomenon of earthquakes, may have been connected with that described in Matthew 27:51. It is an indirect confirmation of the statement that about this time there is an obvious change in the conduct of the crowd. There is a pause and lull. The gibes and taunts cease, and the life of the Crucified One ends in a silence broken only by His own bitter cry.

http://biblehub.com...

Independent sources validate the Bible. What is seen as contradictions are merely explanations from independent sources giving their own testimony that may slightly differ the other. This is what police officers look for when obtain testimonies from witnesses.

Today the term darkness has different meanings other than literal absence of physical light. And darkness had different connotations then.
JJ50
Posts: 2,144
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1/20/2015 11:34:53 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 1/20/2015 11:22:25 AM, RoderickSpode wrote:
At 1/20/2015 9:25:32 AM, Skepticalone wrote:
Matthew 27:45
Now from the sixth hour darkness fell upon all the land until the ninth hour.

I have heard many people explain this as an eclipse, but an eclipse does not last for 3 hours. Is it literal, and if so how do you explain it other than magic (un-falsifiable). Also,why were there no accounts of 3 hours of darkness outside of the Bible between 30-33 AD?

I would very much like to see a discussion on this or any other unusual events in the Bible which defy what we know of nature.
I personally favor Ellicott's commentary. It's actually key that not only is there not any outside reference to the event, the event is independent of the other gospels.

Darkness over all the land."Better so than the "earth" of the Authorised version of Luke 23:44. The degree and nature of the darkness are not defined. The moon was at its full, and therefore there could be no eclipse. St. John does not name it, nor is it recorded by Josephus, Tacitus, or any contemporary writer. On the other hand, its appearance in records in many respects so independent of each other as those of the three Gospels places it, even as the common grounds of historical probability, on a sufficiently firm basis, and early Christian writers, such as Tertullian (Apol. c. 21) and Origen (100 Cels. ii. 33), appeal to it as attested by heathen writers. The narrative does not necessarily involve more than the indescribable yet most oppressive gloom which seems to shroud the whole sky as in mourning (comp. Amos 8:9-10), and which being a not uncommon phenomenon of earthquakes, may have been connected with that described in Matthew 27:51. It is an indirect confirmation of the statement that about this time there is an obvious change in the conduct of the crowd. There is a pause and lull. The gibes and taunts cease, and the life of the Crucified One ends in a silence broken only by His own bitter cry.

http://biblehub.com...

Independent sources validate the Bible. What is seen as contradictions are merely explanations from independent sources giving their own testimony that may slightly differ the other. This is what police officers look for when obtain testimonies from witnesses.

Today the term darkness has different meanings other than literal absence of physical light. And darkness had different connotations then.

Which independent sources validate the Bible?
MadCornishBiker
Posts: 23,302
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1/20/2015 11:37:42 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 1/20/2015 10:50:07 AM, Skepticalone wrote:
At 1/20/2015 9:55:28 AM, MadCornishBiker wrote:
At 1/20/2015 9:25:32 AM, Skepticalone wrote:
Matthew 27:45
Now from the sixth hour darkness fell upon all the land until the ninth hour.

I have heard many people explain this as an eclipse, but an eclipse does not last for 3 hours. Is it literal, and if so how do you explain it other than magic (un-falsifiable). Also,why were there no accounts of 3 hours of darkness outside of the Bible between 30-33 AD?

I would very much like to see a discussion on this or any other unusual events in the Bible which defy what we know of nature.

The trouble is that people who doubt that these things are real, or who try to rationalise away the events are denying the power of God.

He created everything, including the laws of physics etc.

Having created them, do you not think he can control them?

Just because we are incapable of affecting things like Gravity, does not mean that the creator of everything, including gravity cannot do so.

Could the God who caused the moon and the earth to exist not control it so that an eclipse, if such it was, last for exactly as long as he wished it to?

Of course he could, but the real point is that no matter how he did it, he has the power and ability to do that and much more.

The Gibeonites were part of an alliance of 5 powerful nations who were violently opposed to Israel, and determined to destroy it.

However the Gibeonites were smarter than that, and made an alliance with Israel, and were accepted.

As you can imagine, that made the other 4 extremely angry, and they turned on Gibeon, not a particularly large part of the former alliance.

Did God say "you aren"t my people so tough"?

No he didn"t, he accepted that Gibeon had made an alliance with Israel and sent Joshua out, with the fighting men of Israel, to defend them.

Not only that, bu7t in defence of a non-Israelite ally, he performed the greatest miracle he has ever performed, and in answer to the prayer of Joshua at that.

He made the "sun appear to stand still in the sky for almost a whole day".

How he did it, we may never know, but logic says that he either slowed, or stopped the rotation of the earth for a while.

What about Gravity?

Well what about it? God has the power to either reduce it, or to counter the effects of it at will and at need.

There are others

Only a fool underestimates the power and ability of the God and creator of all things.

You choose not to provide any falsifiable justification. One for unfalsifiable. Thank you for your input.

No problem, the only justifacation I have is the evidence I have found, and since I already know that you choose not to accept or recognise it, I didn't see any point in mentioning it to you again.
MadCornishBiker
Posts: 23,302
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1/20/2015 11:42:45 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 1/20/2015 11:20:05 AM, dhardage wrote:
At 1/20/2015 10:40:55 AM, MadCornishBiker wrote:
At 1/20/2015 10:30:06 AM, dhardage wrote:
At 1/20/2015 10:19:08 AM, MadCornishBiker wrote:
At 1/20/2015 10:04:26 AM, dhardage wrote:
At 1/20/2015 9:55:28 AM, MadCornishBiker wrote:
At 1/20/2015 9:25:32 AM, Skepticalone wrote:
Matthew 27:45
Now from the sixth hour darkness fell upon all the land until the ninth hour.

I have heard many people explain this as an eclipse, but an eclipse does not last for 3 hours. Is it literal, and if so how do you explain it other than magic (un-falsifiable). Also,why were there no accounts of 3 hours of darkness outside of the Bible between 30-33 AD?

I would very much like to see a discussion on this or any other unusual events in the Bible which defy what we know of nature.

The trouble is that people who doubt that these things are real, or who try to rationalise away the events are denying the power of God.

He created everything, including the laws of physics etc.

Having created them, do you not think he can control them?

Just because we are incapable of affecting things like Gravity, does not mean that the creator of everything, including gravity cannot do so.

Could the God who caused the moon and the earth to exist not control it so that an eclipse, if such it was, last for exactly as long as he wished it to?

Of course he could, but the real point is that no matter how he did it, he has the power and ability to do that and much more.

The Gibeonites were part of an alliance of 5 powerful nations who were violently opposed to Israel, and determined to destroy it.

However the Gibeonites were smarter than that, and made an alliance with Israel, and were accepted.

As you can imagine, that made the other 4 extremely angry, and they turned on Gibeon, not a particularly large part of the former alliance.

Did God say "you aren"t my people so tough"?

No he didn"t, he accepted that Gibeon had made an alliance with Israel and sent Joshua out, with the fighting men of Israel, to defend them.

Not only that, bu7t in defence of a non-Israelite ally, he performed the greatest miracle he has ever performed, and in answer to the prayer of Joshua at that.

He made the "sun appear to stand still in the sky for almost a whole day".

How he did it, we may never know, but logic says that he either slowed, or stopped the rotation of the earth for a while.

What about Gravity?

Well what about it? God has the power to either reduce it, or to counter the effects of it at will and at need.

There are others

Only a fool underestimates the power and ability of the God and creator of all things.

And you believe what is written in a book, tales told by ignorant primitives who had no idea that the laws of physics existed, that the sun's apparent movement is determined by the rotation of the planet, and stopping it suddenly would kill every living thing on it. You accept it as true despite having no other evidence to support it and knowing it violates the way the world actually works. Who then, is the fool?

No, as I said, I accept it because of the evidence that supports it, as do a slowly growing band of scientists.

The fool is the one who ignores or denies the evidence that is plainly there.

I believe it because it has proved to be too accurate and reliable to simply be the word of man.

Do you not think that God could prevent such damage being caused?

Of course he could.

The bible may have been written down by ignorant men who had no knowledge of how things happen, but that is what makes the fact that they can tell us accurately thing that they could not possibly have known.

I know you won"t accept it, simply because you don"t want to, but I do not take the word of the men who wrote the bible, even less those who translated it. I take the word of the God who inspired it, and he knows all there is to know.

All you have done with your reply is help to prove both me, and scriptures, right.

Name these scientists and give me the studies they have done to support any biblical supernatural occurrence and we can have a discussion. Until you do, you' are but empty words.


I can give you links to some of their stories, as I have offered many times, but that is the best I can do. Not sure I am inclined to do more.

http://wol.jw.org...

http://wol.jw.org...

http://wol.jw.org...

http://wol.jw.org...

http://wol.jw.org...

http://wol.jw.org...

I doubt it will make any difference to you because you re obviously, from past experience with you, determined to avoid the most obvious evidences of God and the accuracy of scripture, but I guess I got to try.

Where there is life there is hope, but not always much hope.

All you have provided is a bunch of links to your Jehova's Witness web site. NONE of this 'evidence' has been peer reviewed, no studies conducted, and no real data presented. All of these people just see 'God' in the world and decided to abandon reason and rationality. That's if any of them were ever anything but Christians and believers in the God of Abraham. This is not any kind of evidence for your assertions and definitely not evidence that any of the miraculous events in the your holy book every occurred.

It's not my website and they are not my Jehovah's Witnesses.

However you have simly proved both me and scriptrue correct, you didn't even dare read their stories. I suspect because you already know they would prove you wrong.

Of course the links are to a JW website. No other group accepts the bible as 100% true, and live by it, in reality. Therefore the stories had to be those of scientists who chose to become JWs.

Couldn't you even workt that out for yourself?
SNP1
Posts: 2,403
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1/20/2015 11:43:38 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 1/20/2015 11:37:42 AM, MadCornishBiker wrote:
No problem, the only justifacation I have is the evidence I have found, and since I already know that you choose not to accept or recognise it, I didn't see any point in mentioning it to you again.

Don't you think that a reason why so many people do not accept your "evidence" is because it is bad evidence?
#TheApatheticNihilistPartyofAmerica
#WarOnDDO
RoderickSpode
Posts: 2,372
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1/20/2015 11:50:18 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 1/20/2015 11:34:53 AM, JJ50 wrote:
At 1/20/2015 11:22:25 AM, RoderickSpode wrote:
At 1/20/2015 9:25:32 AM, Skepticalone wrote:
Matthew 27:45
Now from the sixth hour darkness fell upon all the land until the ninth hour.

I have heard many people explain this as an eclipse, but an eclipse does not last for 3 hours. Is it literal, and if so how do you explain it other than magic (un-falsifiable). Also,why were there no accounts of 3 hours of darkness outside of the Bible between 30-33 AD?

I would very much like to see a discussion on this or any other unusual events in the Bible which defy what we know of nature.
I personally favor Ellicott's commentary. It's actually key that not only is there not any outside reference to the event, the event is independent of the other gospels.

Darkness over all the land."Better so than the "earth" of the Authorised version of Luke 23:44. The degree and nature of the darkness are not defined. The moon was at its full, and therefore there could be no eclipse. St. John does not name it, nor is it recorded by Josephus, Tacitus, or any contemporary writer. On the other hand, its appearance in records in many respects so independent of each other as those of the three Gospels places it, even as the common grounds of historical probability, on a sufficiently firm basis, and early Christian writers, such as Tertullian (Apol. c. 21) and Origen (100 Cels. ii. 33), appeal to it as attested by heathen writers. The narrative does not necessarily involve more than the indescribable yet most oppressive gloom which seems to shroud the whole sky as in mourning (comp. Amos 8:9-10), and which being a not uncommon phenomenon of earthquakes, may have been connected with that described in Matthew 27:51. It is an indirect confirmation of the statement that about this time there is an obvious change in the conduct of the crowd. There is a pause and lull. The gibes and taunts cease, and the life of the Crucified One ends in a silence broken only by His own bitter cry.

http://biblehub.com...

Independent sources validate the Bible. What is seen as contradictions are merely explanations from independent sources giving their own testimony that may slightly differ the other. This is what police officers look for when obtain testimonies from witnesses.

Today the term darkness has different meanings other than literal absence of physical light. And darkness had different connotations then.

Which independent sources validate the Bible?
First off when I say validate, it is still open to opinion just as much as any member of a jury might have a differing opinion than the other members, including the judge and the final verdict.

But here's an example:

Matthew 21:7 And brought the a**, and the colt, and put on them their clothes, and they set him thereon.

This is viewed by a number of people as a contradiction, and one of the verses that invalidate the Bible because the other accounts in the Gospels only mention one donkey.

However, this would not throw a police officer recording testimonies from witnesses because the similarities in each testimony are similar, and more than likely some of the testifiers merely felt it unnecessary to include both donkeys in their testimony. What would be suspicious is if each account was completely identical, which would leave room for the possibility of collaboration.
Skepticalone
Posts: 6,095
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1/20/2015 11:51:45 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 1/20/2015 11:22:25 AM, RoderickSpode wrote:
At 1/20/2015 9:25:32 AM, Skepticalone wrote:
Matthew 27:45
Now from the sixth hour darkness fell upon all the land until the ninth hour.

I have heard many people explain this as an eclipse, but an eclipse does not last for 3 hours. Is it literal, and if so how do you explain it other than magic (un-falsifiable). Also,why were there no accounts of 3 hours of darkness outside of the Bible between 30-33 AD?

I would very much like to see a discussion on this or any other unusual events in the Bible which defy what we know of nature.
I personally favor Ellicott's commentary. It's actually key that not only is there not any outside reference to the event, the event is independent of the other gospels.

If indeed there is no sources outside of the Bible which tell of a darkening of the sun or an earthquake between 30-33AD, then that suggests this event went unnoticed by by the rest of the world. Other earthquakes and darkening of the sun were recorded by first century historians. So, if that is the case (there are no other sources) then abcense of evidence is evidence of abcense since we have reason to believe the ancient world would have noticed such an event.


Darkness over all the land."Better so than the "earth" of the Authorised version of Luke 23:44. The degree and nature of the darkness are not defined. The moon was at its full, and therefore there could be no eclipse. St. John does not name it, nor is it recorded by Josephus, Tacitus, or any contemporary writer. On the other hand, its appearance in records in many respects so independent of each other as those of the three Gospels places it, even as the common grounds of historical probability, on a sufficiently firm basis, and early Christian writers, such as Tertullian (Apol. c. 21) and Origen (100 Cels. ii. 33), appeal to it as attested by heathen writers. The narrative does not necessarily involve more than the indescribable yet most oppressive gloom which seems to shroud the whole sky as in mourning (comp. Amos 8:9-10), and which being a not uncommon phenomenon of earthquakes, may have been connected with that described in Matthew 27:51. It is an indirect confirmation of the statement that about this time there is an obvious change in the conduct of the crowd. There is a pause and lull. The gibes and taunts cease, and the life of the Crucified One ends in a silence broken only by His own bitter cry.

http://biblehub.com...

Independent sources validate the Bible. What is seen as contradictions are merely explanations from independent sources giving their own testimony that may slightly differ the other. This is what police officers look for when obtain testimonies from witnesses.

Biblical scholars typically agree Matthew and Luke were derived from Mark and another source which is no longer extant. That being the case, Matthew, Mark, and Luke are not corroborating witnesses. It is one account.

Today the term darkness has different meanings other than literal absence of physical light. And darkness had different connotations then.

It sounds as if you are positing an unfalsifiable explanation.
This thread is like eavesdropping on a conversation in a mental asylum. - Bulproof

You can call your invisible friends whatever you like. - Desmac

What the hell kind of coked up sideshow has this thread turned into. - Casten
dhardage
Posts: 4,545
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1/20/2015 11:53:25 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
Only a fool underestimates the power and ability of the God and creator of all things.

And you believe what is written in a book, tales told by ignorant primitives who had no idea that the laws of physics existed, that the sun's apparent movement is determined by the rotation of the planet, and stopping it suddenly would kill every living thing on it. You accept it as true despite having no other evidence to support it and knowing it violates the way the world actually works. Who then, is the fool?

No, as I said, I accept it because of the evidence that supports it, as do a slowly growing band of scientists.

The fool is the one who ignores or denies the evidence that is plainly there.

I believe it because it has proved to be too accurate and reliable to simply be the word of man.

Do you not think that God could prevent such damage being caused?

Of course he could.

The bible may have been written down by ignorant men who had no knowledge of how things happen, but that is what makes the fact that they can tell us accurately thing that they could not possibly have known.

I know you won"t accept it, simply because you don"t want to, but I do not take the word of the men who wrote the bible, even less those who translated it. I take the word of the God who inspired it, and he knows all there is to know.

All you have done with your reply is help to prove both me, and scriptures, right.

Name these scientists and give me the studies they have done to support any biblical supernatural occurrence and we can have a discussion. Until you do, you' are but empty words.


I can give you links to some of their stories, as I have offered many times, but that is the best I can do. Not sure I am inclined to do more.

http://wol.jw.org...

http://wol.jw.org...

http://wol.jw.org...

http://wol.jw.org...

http://wol.jw.org...

http://wol.jw.org...

I doubt it will make any difference to you because you re obviously, from past experience with you, determined to avoid the most obvious evidences of God and the accuracy of scripture, but I guess I got to try.

Where there is life there is hope, but not always much hope.

All you have provided is a bunch of links to your Jehova's Witness web site. NONE of this 'evidence' has been peer reviewed, no studies conducted, and no real data presented. All of these people just see 'God' in the world and decided to abandon reason and rationality. That's if any of them were ever anything but Christians and believers in the God of Abraham. This is not any kind of evidence for your assertions and definitely not evidence that any of the miraculous events in the your holy book every occurred.

It's not my website and they are not my Jehovah's Witnesses.

However you have simly proved both me and scriptrue correct, you didn't even dare read their stories. I suspect because you already know they would prove you wrong.

Of course the links are to a JW website. No other group accepts the bible as 100% true, and live by it, in reality. Therefore the stories had to be those of scientists who chose to become JWs.

Couldn't you even workt that out for yourself?

I did read the stories, else I would not comment on them and all of my observations still stand. Not one jot of evidence for God in any of their stories, just their own beliefs.

Of course you went to a JW website, since it will only publish material that supports your assertions regardless of the circumstances. You would be afraid to look elsewhere or your precious delusions might be challenged with real information that can be tested and verified. I can see that you live in a tower of indomitable ignorance, denying that anyone's evidence that does not support your beliefs exists. That said, we are in unalterable opposition and there is no further need to even discuss the issue.

I wish you a good day, sir.
Skepticalone
Posts: 6,095
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1/20/2015 11:53:26 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 1/20/2015 11:37:42 AM, MadCornishBiker wrote:
At 1/20/2015 10:50:07 AM, Skepticalone wrote:
At 1/20/2015 9:55:28 AM, MadCornishBiker wrote:
At 1/20/2015 9:25:32 AM, Skepticalone wrote:
Matthew 27:45
Now from the sixth hour darkness fell upon all the land until the ninth hour.

I have heard many people explain this as an eclipse, but an eclipse does not last for 3 hours. Is it literal, and if so how do you explain it other than magic (un-falsifiable). Also,why were there no accounts of 3 hours of darkness outside of the Bible between 30-33 AD?

I would very much like to see a discussion on this or any other unusual events in the Bible which defy what we know of nature.

The trouble is that people who doubt that these things are real, or who try to rationalise away the events are denying the power of God.

He created everything, including the laws of physics etc.

Having created them, do you not think he can control them?

Just because we are incapable of affecting things like Gravity, does not mean that the creator of everything, including gravity cannot do so.

Could the God who caused the moon and the earth to exist not control it so that an eclipse, if such it was, last for exactly as long as he wished it to?

Of course he could, but the real point is that no matter how he did it, he has the power and ability to do that and much more.

The Gibeonites were part of an alliance of 5 powerful nations who were violently opposed to Israel, and determined to destroy it.

However the Gibeonites were smarter than that, and made an alliance with Israel, and were accepted.

As you can imagine, that made the other 4 extremely angry, and they turned on Gibeon, not a particularly large part of the former alliance.

Did God say "you aren"t my people so tough"?

No he didn"t, he accepted that Gibeon had made an alliance with Israel and sent Joshua out, with the fighting men of Israel, to defend them.

Not only that, bu7t in defence of a non-Israelite ally, he performed the greatest miracle he has ever performed, and in answer to the prayer of Joshua at that.

He made the "sun appear to stand still in the sky for almost a whole day".

How he did it, we may never know, but logic says that he either slowed, or stopped the rotation of the earth for a while.

What about Gravity?

Well what about it? God has the power to either reduce it, or to counter the effects of it at will and at need.

There are others

Only a fool underestimates the power and ability of the God and creator of all things.

You choose not to provide any falsifiable justification. One for unfalsifiable. Thank you for your input.

No problem, the only justifacation I have is the evidence I have found, and since I already know that you choose not to accept or recognise it, I didn't see any point in mentioning it to you again.

I appreciate your input, but in this case no record outside of the Bible suggests this event never occurred.
This thread is like eavesdropping on a conversation in a mental asylum. - Bulproof

You can call your invisible friends whatever you like. - Desmac

What the hell kind of coked up sideshow has this thread turned into. - Casten
MadCornishBiker
Posts: 23,302
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1/20/2015 12:15:42 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 1/20/2015 11:53:26 AM, Skepticalone wrote:
At 1/20/2015 11:37:42 AM, MadCornishBiker wrote:
At 1/20/2015 10:50:07 AM, Skepticalone wrote:
At 1/20/2015 9:55:28 AM, MadCornishBiker wrote:
At 1/20/2015 9:25:32 AM, Skepticalone wrote:
Matthew 27:45
Now from the sixth hour darkness fell upon all the land until the ninth hour.

I have heard many people explain this as an eclipse, but an eclipse does not last for 3 hours. Is it literal, and if so how do you explain it other than magic (un-falsifiable). Also,why were there no accounts of 3 hours of darkness outside of the Bible between 30-33 AD?

I would very much like to see a discussion on this or any other unusual events in the Bible which defy what we know of nature.

The trouble is that people who doubt that these things are real, or who try to rationalise away the events are denying the power of God.

He created everything, including the laws of physics etc.

Having created them, do you not think he can control them?

Just because we are incapable of affecting things like Gravity, does not mean that the creator of everything, including gravity cannot do so.

Could the God who caused the moon and the earth to exist not control it so that an eclipse, if such it was, last for exactly as long as he wished it to?

Of course he could, but the real point is that no matter how he did it, he has the power and ability to do that and much more.

The Gibeonites were part of an alliance of 5 powerful nations who were violently opposed to Israel, and determined to destroy it.

However the Gibeonites were smarter than that, and made an alliance with Israel, and were accepted.

As you can imagine, that made the other 4 extremely angry, and they turned on Gibeon, not a particularly large part of the former alliance.

Did God say "you aren"t my people so tough"?

No he didn"t, he accepted that Gibeon had made an alliance with Israel and sent Joshua out, with the fighting men of Israel, to defend them.

Not only that, bu7t in defence of a non-Israelite ally, he performed the greatest miracle he has ever performed, and in answer to the prayer of Joshua at that.

He made the "sun appear to stand still in the sky for almost a whole day".

How he did it, we may never know, but logic says that he either slowed, or stopped the rotation of the earth for a while.

What about Gravity?

Well what about it? God has the power to either reduce it, or to counter the effects of it at will and at need.

There are others

Only a fool underestimates the power and ability of the God and creator of all things.

You choose not to provide any falsifiable justification. One for unfalsifiable. Thank you for your input.

No problem, the only justifacation I have is the evidence I have found, and since I already know that you choose not to accept or recognise it, I didn't see any point in mentioning it to you again.

I appreciate your input, but in this case no record outside of the Bible suggests this event never occurred.

And that proves precisely nothing.
MadCornishBiker
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1/20/2015 12:18:21 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 1/20/2015 11:53:25 AM, dhardage wrote:
Only a fool underestimates the power and ability of the God and creator of all things.

And you believe what is written in a book, tales told by ignorant primitives who had no idea that the laws of physics existed, that the sun's apparent movement is determined by the rotation of the planet, and stopping it suddenly would kill every living thing on it. You accept it as true despite having no other evidence to support it and knowing it violates the way the world actually works. Who then, is the fool?

No, as I said, I accept it because of the evidence that supports it, as do a slowly growing band of scientists.

The fool is the one who ignores or denies the evidence that is plainly there.

I believe it because it has proved to be too accurate and reliable to simply be the word of man.

Do you not think that God could prevent such damage being caused?

Of course he could.

The bible may have been written down by ignorant men who had no knowledge of how things happen, but that is what makes the fact that they can tell us accurately thing that they could not possibly have known.

I know you won"t accept it, simply because you don"t want to, but I do not take the word of the men who wrote the bible, even less those who translated it. I take the word of the God who inspired it, and he knows all there is to know.

All you have done with your reply is help to prove both me, and scriptures, right.

Name these scientists and give me the studies they have done to support any biblical supernatural occurrence and we can have a discussion. Until you do, you' are but empty words.


I can give you links to some of their stories, as I have offered many times, but that is the best I can do. Not sure I am inclined to do more.

http://wol.jw.org...

http://wol.jw.org...

http://wol.jw.org...

http://wol.jw.org...

http://wol.jw.org...

http://wol.jw.org...

I doubt it will make any difference to you because you re obviously, from past experience with you, determined to avoid the most obvious evidences of God and the accuracy of scripture, but I guess I got to try.

Where there is life there is hope, but not always much hope.

All you have provided is a bunch of links to your Jehova's Witness web site. NONE of this 'evidence' has been peer reviewed, no studies conducted, and no real data presented. All of these people just see 'God' in the world and decided to abandon reason and rationality. That's if any of them were ever anything but Christians and believers in the God of Abraham. This is not any kind of evidence for your assertions and definitely not evidence that any of the miraculous events in the your holy book every occurred.

It's not my website and they are not my Jehovah's Witnesses.

However you have simly proved both me and scriptrue correct, you didn't even dare read their stories. I suspect because you already know they would prove you wrong.

Of course the links are to a JW website. No other group accepts the bible as 100% true, and live by it, in reality. Therefore the stories had to be those of scientists who chose to become JWs.

Couldn't you even workt that out for yourself?

I did read the stories, else I would not comment on them and all of my observations still stand. Not one jot of evidence for God in any of their stories, just their own beliefs.

Of course you went to a JW website, since it will only publish material that supports your assertions regardless of the circumstances. You would be afraid to look elsewhere or your precious delusions might be challenged with real information that can be tested and verified. I can see that you live in a tower of indomitable ignorance, denying that anyone's evidence that does not support your beliefs exists. That said, we are in unalterable opposition and there is no further need to even discuss the issue.

I wish you a good day, sir.

On the contrary I do not only look there, my faith is trenthened by people ike you who in your stubborn refusal to accept any evidence that does not please you.

Some of us have felt the need to accept truth whether or not we have liked it at the time.
DanneJeRusse
Posts: 12,609
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1/20/2015 12:18:28 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 1/20/2015 11:37:42 AM, MadCornishBiker wrote:
At 1/20/2015 10:50:07 AM, Skepticalone wrote:
At 1/20/2015 9:55:28 AM, MadCornishBiker wrote:
At 1/20/2015 9:25:32 AM, Skepticalone wrote:
Matthew 27:45
Now from the sixth hour darkness fell upon all the land until the ninth hour.

I have heard many people explain this as an eclipse, but an eclipse does not last for 3 hours. Is it literal, and if so how do you explain it other than magic (un-falsifiable). Also,why were there no accounts of 3 hours of darkness outside of the Bible between 30-33 AD?

I would very much like to see a discussion on this or any other unusual events in the Bible which defy what we know of nature.

The trouble is that people who doubt that these things are real, or who try to rationalise away the events are denying the power of God.

He created everything, including the laws of physics etc.

Having created them, do you not think he can control them?

Just because we are incapable of affecting things like Gravity, does not mean that the creator of everything, including gravity cannot do so.

Could the God who caused the moon and the earth to exist not control it so that an eclipse, if such it was, last for exactly as long as he wished it to?

Of course he could, but the real point is that no matter how he did it, he has the power and ability to do that and much more.

The Gibeonites were part of an alliance of 5 powerful nations who were violently opposed to Israel, and determined to destroy it.

However the Gibeonites were smarter than that, and made an alliance with Israel, and were accepted.

As you can imagine, that made the other 4 extremely angry, and they turned on Gibeon, not a particularly large part of the former alliance.

Did God say "you aren"t my people so tough"?

No he didn"t, he accepted that Gibeon had made an alliance with Israel and sent Joshua out, with the fighting men of Israel, to defend them.

Not only that, bu7t in defence of a non-Israelite ally, he performed the greatest miracle he has ever performed, and in answer to the prayer of Joshua at that.

He made the "sun appear to stand still in the sky for almost a whole day".

How he did it, we may never know, but logic says that he either slowed, or stopped the rotation of the earth for a while.

What about Gravity?

Well what about it? God has the power to either reduce it, or to counter the effects of it at will and at need.

There are others

Only a fool underestimates the power and ability of the God and creator of all things.

You choose not to provide any falsifiable justification. One for unfalsifiable. Thank you for your input.

No problem, the only justifacation I have is the evidence I have found, and since I already know that you choose not to accept or recognise it, I didn't see any point in mentioning it to you again.

I saw no compelling evidence there, just folks telling their stories. How is that evidence of anything? Stories without evidence can turn into fables easily. And, while I'm sure it was compelling for you somehow, it doesn't provide much at all.

The first link, Kenneth Tanaka was raised as a baptist and went off to study geology and wrote some very good papers. He had a love of science but made some fallacies in his story common to most stories like it, he didn't understand evolution and questioned the reason for purpose and meaning as a result of that incredulity.

Then suddenly and unexpectedly, he began to analyze the Bible for those answers and came away believing it to be 100% truth claiming he "no longer believed in evolution". Hallelujah! Praise Jesus!
Marrying a 6 year old and waiting until she reaches puberty and maturity before having consensual sex is better than walking up to
a stranger in a bar and proceeding to have relations with no valid proof of the intent of the person. Muhammad wins. ~ Fatihah
If they don't want to be killed then they have to subdue to the Islamic laws. - Uncung
Without God, you are lower than sh!t. ~ SpiritandTruth
Otokage
Posts: 2,347
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1/20/2015 12:21:40 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 1/20/2015 9:25:32 AM, Skepticalone wrote:
Matthew 27:45
Now from the sixth hour darkness fell upon all the land until the ninth hour.

I have heard many people explain this as an eclipse, but an eclipse does not last for 3 hours. Is it literal, and if so how do you explain it other than magic (un-falsifiable). Also,why were there no accounts of 3 hours of darkness outside of the Bible between 30-33 AD?

I would very much like to see a discussion on this or any other unusual events in the Bible which defy what we know of nature.

Omg is this serious. Tell me just ONE PAGE of the Bible that doesn't have unnatural events!
Skepticalone
Posts: 6,095
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1/20/2015 12:31:28 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 1/20/2015 12:15:42 PM, MadCornishBiker wrote:
At 1/20/2015 11:53:26 AM, Skepticalone wrote:
At 1/20/2015 11:37:42 AM, MadCornishBiker wrote:
At 1/20/2015 10:50:07 AM, Skepticalone wrote:
At 1/20/2015 9:55:28 AM, MadCornishBiker wrote:
At 1/20/2015 9:25:32 AM, Skepticalone wrote:
Matthew 27:45
Now from the sixth hour darkness fell upon all the land until the ninth hour.

I have heard many people explain this as an eclipse, but an eclipse does not last for 3 hours. Is it literal, and if so how do you explain it other than magic (un-falsifiable). Also,why were there no accounts of 3 hours of darkness outside of the Bible between 30-33 AD?

I would very much like to see a discussion on this or any other unusual events in the Bible which defy what we know of nature.

The trouble is that people who doubt that these things are real, or who try to rationalise away the events are denying the power of God.

He created everything, including the laws of physics etc.

Having created them, do you not think he can control them?

Just because we are incapable of affecting things like Gravity, does not mean that the creator of everything, including gravity cannot do so.

Could the God who caused the moon and the earth to exist not control it so that an eclipse, if such it was, last for exactly as long as he wished it to?

Of course he could, but the real point is that no matter how he did it, he has the power and ability to do that and much more.

The Gibeonites were part of an alliance of 5 powerful nations who were violently opposed to Israel, and determined to destroy it.

However the Gibeonites were smarter than that, and made an alliance with Israel, and were accepted.

As you can imagine, that made the other 4 extremely angry, and they turned on Gibeon, not a particularly large part of the former alliance.

Did God say "you aren"t my people so tough"?

No he didn"t, he accepted that Gibeon had made an alliance with Israel and sent Joshua out, with the fighting men of Israel, to defend them.

Not only that, bu7t in defence of a non-Israelite ally, he performed the greatest miracle he has ever performed, and in answer to the prayer of Joshua at that.

He made the "sun appear to stand still in the sky for almost a whole day".

How he did it, we may never know, but logic says that he either slowed, or stopped the rotation of the earth for a while.

What about Gravity?

Well what about it? God has the power to either reduce it, or to counter the effects of it at will and at need.

There are others

Only a fool underestimates the power and ability of the God and creator of all things.

You choose not to provide any falsifiable justification. One for unfalsifiable. Thank you for your input.

No problem, the only justifacation I have is the evidence I have found, and since I already know that you choose not to accept or recognise it, I didn't see any point in mentioning it to you again.

I appreciate your input, but in this case no record outside of the Bible suggests this event never occurred.

That should read, "ever occurred".

And that proves precisely nothing.

We cannot "prove" it either way, and that is why we should approach the situation as to whether it is probable or improbable. If there were contemporary sources outside of the Bible, then we would have a much higher degree of certainty it did happen. I am not aware of any such sources. The only source we have is the Bible, and that account is far from dispassionate and is completely uncorroborated.
This thread is like eavesdropping on a conversation in a mental asylum. - Bulproof

You can call your invisible friends whatever you like. - Desmac

What the hell kind of coked up sideshow has this thread turned into. - Casten