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Why Not Everybody Knows God's Existence

ChristianPunk
Posts: 1,710
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1/21/2015 1:54:04 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
If they did, they'd know God and what he preaches. There is a part of the bible where it tells you who doesn't know God.

1 John 4:8 states if you do not love, then you do not know God. Because God is love. So we can already know this proves my point.

Another is when I claimed to believe in God, but I created a false one with Default Christianity. I believed God answered prayers to kill Muslims. I believe he hated blacks and gays like I did. I also believed he was ok with killings that were justified. Like I believed as long as somebody was a Muslim, it didn't matter if they were babies. I would've killed them. This was a classic example of an American version of Christianity turning me into Hitler. I even showed my study skills teacher some drawings I planned of bombing and burning Mosques and places where Muslims gathered in the Middle East. Clearly I didn't follow 1 John 4:8. So I didn't know the right God. Or God at all.

Pressupositionialism: 0

Christianity: 1
dtaylor971
Posts: 1,907
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1/21/2015 3:17:26 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 1/21/2015 1:54:04 PM, ChristianPunk wrote:
If they did, they'd know God and what he preaches. There is a part of the bible where it tells you who doesn't know God.

1 John 4:8 states if you do not love, then you do not know God. Because God is love. So we can already know this proves my point.

By this logic, every happily married person should believe in God. Every person who loves his mother should believe in God. What is the definition of "love" here?

Another is when I claimed to believe in God, but I created a false one with Default Christianity. I believed God answered prayers to kill Muslims. I believe he hated blacks and gays like I did. I also believed he was ok with killings that were justified. Like I believed as long as somebody was a Muslim, it didn't matter if they were babies. I would've killed them. This was a classic example of an American version of Christianity turning me into Hitler. I even showed my study skills teacher some drawings I planned of bombing and burning Mosques and places where Muslims gathered in the Middle East. Clearly I didn't follow 1 John 4:8. So I didn't know the right God. Or God at all.

Pressupositionialism: 1

Christianity: 0
"I don't know why gays want to marry, I have spent the last 25 years wishing I wasn't allowed to." -Sadolite
ChristianPunk
Posts: 1,710
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1/21/2015 3:29:01 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 1/21/2015 3:17:26 PM, dtaylor971 wrote:
At 1/21/2015 1:54:04 PM, ChristianPunk wrote:
If they did, they'd know God and what he preaches. There is a part of the bible where it tells you who doesn't know God.

1 John 4:8 states if you do not love, then you do not know God. Because God is love. So we can already know this proves my point.

By this logic, every happily married person should believe in God. Every person who loves his mother should believe in God. What is the definition of "love" here?

Another is when I claimed to believe in God, but I created a false one with Default Christianity. I believed God answered prayers to kill Muslims. I believe he hated blacks and gays like I did. I also believed he was ok with killings that were justified. Like I believed as long as somebody was a Muslim, it didn't matter if they were babies. I would've killed them. This was a classic example of an American version of Christianity turning me into Hitler. I even showed my study skills teacher some drawings I planned of bombing and burning Mosques and places where Muslims gathered in the Middle East. Clearly I didn't follow 1 John 4:8. So I didn't know the right God. Or God at all.

Pressupositionialism: 1

Christianity: 0

Do they love more than just their friends and family? What about their enemies? What about greater love when one sacrifices their life for their friend.
Impartial
Posts: 375
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1/21/2015 3:34:53 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 1/21/2015 1:54:04 PM, ChristianPunk wrote:
If they did, they'd know God and what he preaches. There is a part of the bible where it tells you who doesn't know God.

1 John 4:8 states if you do not love, then you do not know God. Because God is love. So we can already know this proves my point.

Another is when I claimed to believe in God, but I created a false one with Default Christianity. I believed God answered prayers to kill Muslims. I believe he hated blacks and gays like I did. I also believed he was ok with killings that were justified. Like I believed as long as somebody was a Muslim, it didn't matter if they were babies. I would've killed them. This was a classic example of an American version of Christianity turning me into Hitler. I even showed my study skills teacher some drawings I planned of bombing and burning Mosques and places where Muslims gathered in the Middle East. Clearly I didn't follow 1 John 4:8. So I didn't know the right God. Or God at all.

Pressupositionialism: 0

Christianity: 1

Since when has your religion had a monopoly on love?
To believe is to know nothing.
ChristianPunk
Posts: 1,710
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1/21/2015 3:40:42 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 1/21/2015 3:34:53 PM, Impartial wrote:
At 1/21/2015 1:54:04 PM, ChristianPunk wrote:
If they did, they'd know God and what he preaches. There is a part of the bible where it tells you who doesn't know God.

1 John 4:8 states if you do not love, then you do not know God. Because God is love. So we can already know this proves my point.

Another is when I claimed to believe in God, but I created a false one with Default Christianity. I believed God answered prayers to kill Muslims. I believe he hated blacks and gays like I did. I also believed he was ok with killings that were justified. Like I believed as long as somebody was a Muslim, it didn't matter if they were babies. I would've killed them. This was a classic example of an American version of Christianity turning me into Hitler. I even showed my study skills teacher some drawings I planned of bombing and burning Mosques and places where Muslims gathered in the Middle East. Clearly I didn't follow 1 John 4:8. So I didn't know the right God. Or God at all.

Pressupositionialism: 0

Christianity: 1

Since when has your religion had a monopoly on love?

It's citizens hasn't kept the monopoly. They own it, but make their satisfactory through other means of greed, lust (rape), war, and theft. Just because pure water is in a rusty barrel, doesn't mean it loses its purity for what it was known to originally be.
Impartial
Posts: 375
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1/21/2015 3:44:52 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 1/21/2015 3:40:42 PM, ChristianPunk wrote:
At 1/21/2015 3:34:53 PM, Impartial wrote:
At 1/21/2015 1:54:04 PM, ChristianPunk wrote:
If they did, they'd know God and what he preaches. There is a part of the bible where it tells you who doesn't know God.

1 John 4:8 states if you do not love, then you do not know God. Because God is love. So we can already know this proves my point.

Another is when I claimed to believe in God, but I created a false one with Default Christianity. I believed God answered prayers to kill Muslims. I believe he hated blacks and gays like I did. I also believed he was ok with killings that were justified. Like I believed as long as somebody was a Muslim, it didn't matter if they were babies. I would've killed them. This was a classic example of an American version of Christianity turning me into Hitler. I even showed my study skills teacher some drawings I planned of bombing and burning Mosques and places where Muslims gathered in the Middle East. Clearly I didn't follow 1 John 4:8. So I didn't know the right God. Or God at all.

Pressupositionialism: 0

Christianity: 1

Since when has your religion had a monopoly on love?

It's citizens hasn't kept the monopoly. They own it, but make their satisfactory through other means of greed, lust (rape), war, and theft. Just because pure water is in a rusty barrel, doesn't mean it loses its purity for what it was known to originally be.

So as an atheist, I'm not allowed to love my family?
To believe is to know nothing.
ChristianPunk
Posts: 1,710
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1/21/2015 4:43:57 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 1/21/2015 3:44:52 PM, Impartial wrote:
At 1/21/2015 3:40:42 PM, ChristianPunk wrote:
At 1/21/2015 3:34:53 PM, Impartial wrote:
At 1/21/2015 1:54:04 PM, ChristianPunk wrote:
If they did, they'd know God and what he preaches. There is a part of the bible where it tells you who doesn't know God.

1 John 4:8 states if you do not love, then you do not know God. Because God is love. So we can already know this proves my point.

Another is when I claimed to believe in God, but I created a false one with Default Christianity. I believed God answered prayers to kill Muslims. I believe he hated blacks and gays like I did. I also believed he was ok with killings that were justified. Like I believed as long as somebody was a Muslim, it didn't matter if they were babies. I would've killed them. This was a classic example of an American version of Christianity turning me into Hitler. I even showed my study skills teacher some drawings I planned of bombing and burning Mosques and places where Muslims gathered in the Middle East. Clearly I didn't follow 1 John 4:8. So I didn't know the right God. Or God at all.

Pressupositionialism: 0

Christianity: 1

Since when has your religion had a monopoly on love?

It's citizens hasn't kept the monopoly. They own it, but make their satisfactory through other means of greed, lust (rape), war, and theft. Just because pure water is in a rusty barrel, doesn't mean it loses its purity for what it was known to originally be.

So as an atheist, I'm not allowed to love my family?

You are allowed to do whatever you want. "But just because you love somebody doesn't mean instant knowledge of the existentance of God. It takes searching deep.
Impartial
Posts: 375
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1/21/2015 4:55:09 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 1/21/2015 4:43:57 PM, ChristianPunk wrote:
At 1/21/2015 3:44:52 PM, Impartial wrote:
At 1/21/2015 3:40:42 PM, ChristianPunk wrote:
At 1/21/2015 3:34:53 PM, Impartial wrote:
At 1/21/2015 1:54:04 PM, ChristianPunk wrote:
If they did, they'd know God and what he preaches. There is a part of the bible where it tells you who doesn't know God.

1 John 4:8 states if you do not love, then you do not know God. Because God is love. So we can already know this proves my point.

Another is when I claimed to believe in God, but I created a false one with Default Christianity. I believed God answered prayers to kill Muslims. I believe he hated blacks and gays like I did. I also believed he was ok with killings that were justified. Like I believed as long as somebody was a Muslim, it didn't matter if they were babies. I would've killed them. This was a classic example of an American version of Christianity turning me into Hitler. I even showed my study skills teacher some drawings I planned of bombing and burning Mosques and places where Muslims gathered in the Middle East. Clearly I didn't follow 1 John 4:8. So I didn't know the right God. Or God at all.

Pressupositionialism: 0

Christianity: 1

Since when has your religion had a monopoly on love?

It's citizens hasn't kept the monopoly. They own it, but make their satisfactory through other means of greed, lust (rape), war, and theft. Just because pure water is in a rusty barrel, doesn't mean it loses its purity for what it was known to originally be.

So as an atheist, I'm not allowed to love my family?

You are allowed to do whatever you want. "But just because you love somebody doesn't mean instant knowledge of the existentance of God. It takes searching deep.

Let me just correct you there, knowledge of the existentance of God is impossible. Love on the other hand does not need any God, not Allah, not Thor, no one. All these creatures are highly unimporant and irrelevant in terms of my love for someone.
To believe is to know nothing.
ChristianPunk
Posts: 1,710
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1/21/2015 6:29:31 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 1/21/2015 4:55:09 PM, Impartial wrote:
At 1/21/2015 4:43:57 PM, ChristianPunk wrote:
At 1/21/2015 3:44:52 PM, Impartial wrote:
At 1/21/2015 3:40:42 PM, ChristianPunk wrote:
At 1/21/2015 3:34:53 PM, Impartial wrote:
At 1/21/2015 1:54:04 PM, ChristianPunk wrote:
If they did, they'd know God and what he preaches. There is a part of the bible where it tells you who doesn't know God.

1 John 4:8 states if you do not love, then you do not know God. Because God is love. So we can already know this proves my point.

Another is when I claimed to believe in God, but I created a false one with Default Christianity. I believed God answered prayers to kill Muslims. I believe he hated blacks and gays like I did. I also believed he was ok with killings that were justified. Like I believed as long as somebody was a Muslim, it didn't matter if they were babies. I would've killed them. This was a classic example of an American version of Christianity turning me into Hitler. I even showed my study skills teacher some drawings I planned of bombing and burning Mosques and places where Muslims gathered in the Middle East. Clearly I didn't follow 1 John 4:8. So I didn't know the right God. Or God at all.

Pressupositionialism: 0

Christianity: 1

Since when has your religion had a monopoly on love?

It's citizens hasn't kept the monopoly. They own it, but make their satisfactory through other means of greed, lust (rape), war, and theft. Just because pure water is in a rusty barrel, doesn't mean it loses its purity for what it was known to originally be.

So as an atheist, I'm not allowed to love my family?

You are allowed to do whatever you want. "But just because you love somebody doesn't mean instant knowledge of the existentance of God. It takes searching deep.

Let me just correct you there, knowledge of the existentance of God is impossible. Love on the other hand does not need any God, not Allah, not Thor, no one. All these creatures are highly unimporant and irrelevant in terms of my love for someone.

True. Which is why I consider myself an Agnostic Theist and go by faith. I admit. I see several people who love others. Which is why I think that will lead them to God one day.
Impartial
Posts: 375
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1/22/2015 4:28:06 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 1/21/2015 6:29:31 PM, ChristianPunk wrote:
At 1/21/2015 4:55:09 PM, Impartial wrote:
At 1/21/2015 4:43:57 PM, ChristianPunk wrote:
At 1/21/2015 3:44:52 PM, Impartial wrote:
At 1/21/2015 3:40:42 PM, ChristianPunk wrote:
At 1/21/2015 3:34:53 PM, Impartial wrote:
At 1/21/2015 1:54:04 PM, ChristianPunk wrote:
If they did, they'd know God and what he preaches. There is a part of the bible where it tells you who doesn't know God.

1 John 4:8 states if you do not love, then you do not know God. Because God is love. So we can already know this proves my point.

Another is when I claimed to believe in God, but I created a false one with Default Christianity. I believed God answered prayers to kill Muslims. I believe he hated blacks and gays like I did. I also believed he was ok with killings that were justified. Like I believed as long as somebody was a Muslim, it didn't matter if they were babies. I would've killed them. This was a classic example of an American version of Christianity turning me into Hitler. I even showed my study skills teacher some drawings I planned of bombing and burning Mosques and places where Muslims gathered in the Middle East. Clearly I didn't follow 1 John 4:8. So I didn't know the right God. Or God at all.

Pressupositionialism: 0

Christianity: 1

Since when has your religion had a monopoly on love?

It's citizens hasn't kept the monopoly. They own it, but make their satisfactory through other means of greed, lust (rape), war, and theft. Just because pure water is in a rusty barrel, doesn't mean it loses its purity for what it was known to originally be.

So as an atheist, I'm not allowed to love my family?

You are allowed to do whatever you want. "But just because you love somebody doesn't mean instant knowledge of the existentance of God. It takes searching deep.

Let me just correct you there, knowledge of the existentance of God is impossible. Love on the other hand does not need any God, not Allah, not Thor, no one. All these creatures are highly unimporant and irrelevant in terms of my love for someone.

True. Which is why I consider myself an Agnostic Theist and go by faith. I admit. I see several people who love others. Which is why I think that will lead them to God one day.

But often peoples' love doesn't lead them to God and then they die of old age. Does that mean their love wasn't genuine?
To believe is to know nothing.
Classified
Posts: 251
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1/22/2015 5:10:47 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 1/22/2015 4:28:06 AM, Impartial wrote:
At 1/21/2015 6:29:31 PM, ChristianPunk wrote:
At 1/21/2015 4:55:09 PM, Impartial wrote:
At 1/21/2015 4:43:57 PM, ChristianPunk wrote:
At 1/21/2015 3:44:52 PM, Impartial wrote:
At 1/21/2015 3:40:42 PM, ChristianPunk wrote:
At 1/21/2015 3:34:53 PM, Impartial wrote:
At 1/21/2015 1:54:04 PM, ChristianPunk wrote:
If they did, they'd know God and what he preaches. There is a part of the bible where it tells you who doesn't know God.

1 John 4:8 states if you do not love, then you do not know God. Because God is love. So we can already know this proves my point.

Another is when I claimed to believe in God, but I created a false one with Default Christianity. I believed God answered prayers to kill Muslims. I believe he hated blacks and gays like I did. I also believed he was ok with killings that were justified. Like I believed as long as somebody was a Muslim, it didn't matter if they were babies. I would've killed them. This was a classic example of an American version of Christianity turning me into Hitler. I even showed my study skills teacher some drawings I planned of bombing and burning Mosques and places where Muslims gathered in the Middle East. Clearly I didn't follow 1 John 4:8. So I didn't know the right God. Or God at all.

Pressupositionialism: 0

Christianity: 1

Since when has your religion had a monopoly on love?

It's citizens hasn't kept the monopoly. They own it, but make their satisfactory through other means of greed, lust (rape), war, and theft. Just because pure water is in a rusty barrel, doesn't mean it loses its purity for what it was known to originally be.

So as an atheist, I'm not allowed to love my family?

You are allowed to do whatever you want. "But just because you love somebody doesn't mean instant knowledge of the existentance of God. It takes searching deep.

Let me just correct you there, knowledge of the existentance of God is impossible. Love on the other hand does not need any God, not Allah, not Thor, no one. All these creatures are highly unimporant and irrelevant in terms of my love for someone.

True. Which is why I consider myself an Agnostic Theist and go by faith. I admit. I see several people who love others. Which is why I think that will lead them to God one day.

But often peoples' love doesn't lead them to God and then they die of old age. Does that mean their love wasn't genuine?

Thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind. Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself. - Matthew 22: 37b, 39b.

Love your enemies, bless them that curse you, do good to them that hate you, and pray for them which despitefully use you, and persecute you. - Matthew 5: 44b
ChristianPunk
Posts: 1,710
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1/22/2015 8:28:32 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 1/22/2015 4:28:06 AM, Impartial wrote:
At 1/21/2015 6:29:31 PM, ChristianPunk wrote:
At 1/21/2015 4:55:09 PM, Impartial wrote:
At 1/21/2015 4:43:57 PM, ChristianPunk wrote:
At 1/21/2015 3:44:52 PM, Impartial wrote:
At 1/21/2015 3:40:42 PM, ChristianPunk wrote:
At 1/21/2015 3:34:53 PM, Impartial wrote:
At 1/21/2015 1:54:04 PM, ChristianPunk wrote:
If they did, they'd know God and what he preaches. There is a part of the bible where it tells you who doesn't know God.

1 John 4:8 states if you do not love, then you do not know God. Because God is love. So we can already know this proves my point.

Another is when I claimed to believe in God, but I created a false one with Default Christianity. I believed God answered prayers to kill Muslims. I believe he hated blacks and gays like I did. I also believed he was ok with killings that were justified. Like I believed as long as somebody was a Muslim, it didn't matter if they were babies. I would've killed them. This was a classic example of an American version of Christianity turning me into Hitler. I even showed my study skills teacher some drawings I planned of bombing and burning Mosques and places where Muslims gathered in the Middle East. Clearly I didn't follow 1 John 4:8. So I didn't know the right God. Or God at all.

Pressupositionialism: 0

Christianity: 1

Since when has your religion had a monopoly on love?

It's citizens hasn't kept the monopoly. They own it, but make their satisfactory through other means of greed, lust (rape), war, and theft. Just because pure water is in a rusty barrel, doesn't mean it loses its purity for what it was known to originally be.

So as an atheist, I'm not allowed to love my family?

You are allowed to do whatever you want. "But just because you love somebody doesn't mean instant knowledge of the existentance of God. It takes searching deep.

Let me just correct you there, knowledge of the existentance of God is impossible. Love on the other hand does not need any God, not Allah, not Thor, no one. All these creatures are highly unimporant and irrelevant in terms of my love for someone.

True. Which is why I consider myself an Agnostic Theist and go by faith. I admit. I see several people who love others. Which is why I think that will lead them to God one day.

But often peoples' love doesn't lead them to God and then they die of old age. Does that mean their love wasn't genuine?

Love alone won't get people to God.
Impartial
Posts: 375
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1/22/2015 1:00:50 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 1/22/2015 8:28:32 AM, ChristianPunk wrote:
At 1/22/2015 4:28:06 AM, Impartial wrote:
At 1/21/2015 6:29:31 PM, ChristianPunk wrote:
At 1/21/2015 4:55:09 PM, Impartial wrote:
At 1/21/2015 4:43:57 PM, ChristianPunk wrote:
At 1/21/2015 3:44:52 PM, Impartial wrote:
At 1/21/2015 3:40:42 PM, ChristianPunk wrote:
At 1/21/2015 3:34:53 PM, Impartial wrote:
At 1/21/2015 1:54:04 PM, ChristianPunk wrote:
If they did, they'd know God and what he preaches. There is a part of the bible where it tells you who doesn't know God.

1 John 4:8 states if you do not love, then you do not know God. Because God is love. So we can already know this proves my point.

Another is when I claimed to believe in God, but I created a false one with Default Christianity. I believed God answered prayers to kill Muslims. I believe he hated blacks and gays like I did. I also believed he was ok with killings that were justified. Like I believed as long as somebody was a Muslim, it didn't matter if they were babies. I would've killed them. This was a classic example of an American version of Christianity turning me into Hitler. I even showed my study skills teacher some drawings I planned of bombing and burning Mosques and places where Muslims gathered in the Middle East. Clearly I didn't follow 1 John 4:8. So I didn't know the right God. Or God at all.

Pressupositionialism: 0

Christianity: 1

Since when has your religion had a monopoly on love?

It's citizens hasn't kept the monopoly. They own it, but make their satisfactory through other means of greed, lust (rape), war, and theft. Just because pure water is in a rusty barrel, doesn't mean it loses its purity for what it was known to originally be.

So as an atheist, I'm not allowed to love my family?

You are allowed to do whatever you want. "But just because you love somebody doesn't mean instant knowledge of the existentance of God. It takes searching deep.

Let me just correct you there, knowledge of the existentance of God is impossible. Love on the other hand does not need any God, not Allah, not Thor, no one. All these creatures are highly unimporant and irrelevant in terms of my love for someone.

True. Which is why I consider myself an Agnostic Theist and go by faith. I admit. I see several people who love others. Which is why I think that will lead them to God one day.

But often peoples' love doesn't lead them to God and then they die of old age. Does that mean their love wasn't genuine?

Love alone won't get people to God.

Does that mean their love wasn't genuine?
To believe is to know nothing.
ChristianPunk
Posts: 1,710
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1/22/2015 1:02:37 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 1/22/2015 1:00:50 PM, Impartial wrote:
At 1/22/2015 8:28:32 AM, ChristianPunk wrote:
At 1/22/2015 4:28:06 AM, Impartial wrote:
At 1/21/2015 6:29:31 PM, ChristianPunk wrote:
At 1/21/2015 4:55:09 PM, Impartial wrote:
At 1/21/2015 4:43:57 PM, ChristianPunk wrote:
At 1/21/2015 3:44:52 PM, Impartial wrote:
At 1/21/2015 3:40:42 PM, ChristianPunk wrote:
At 1/21/2015 3:34:53 PM, Impartial wrote:
At 1/21/2015 1:54:04 PM, ChristianPunk wrote:
If they did, they'd know God and what he preaches. There is a part of the bible where it tells you who doesn't know God.

1 John 4:8 states if you do not love, then you do not know God. Because God is love. So we can already know this proves my point.

Another is when I claimed to believe in God, but I created a false one with Default Christianity. I believed God answered prayers to kill Muslims. I believe he hated blacks and gays like I did. I also believed he was ok with killings that were justified. Like I believed as long as somebody was a Muslim, it didn't matter if they were babies. I would've killed them. This was a classic example of an American version of Christianity turning me into Hitler. I even showed my study skills teacher some drawings I planned of bombing and burning Mosques and places where Muslims gathered in the Middle East. Clearly I didn't follow 1 John 4:8. So I didn't know the right God. Or God at all.

Pressupositionialism: 0

Christianity: 1

Since when has your religion had a monopoly on love?

It's citizens hasn't kept the monopoly. They own it, but make their satisfactory through other means of greed, lust (rape), war, and theft. Just because pure water is in a rusty barrel, doesn't mean it loses its purity for what it was known to originally be.

So as an atheist, I'm not allowed to love my family?

You are allowed to do whatever you want. "But just because you love somebody doesn't mean instant knowledge of the existentance of God. It takes searching deep.

Let me just correct you there, knowledge of the existentance of God is impossible. Love on the other hand does not need any God, not Allah, not Thor, no one. All these creatures are highly unimporant and irrelevant in terms of my love for someone.

True. Which is why I consider myself an Agnostic Theist and go by faith. I admit. I see several people who love others. Which is why I think that will lead them to God one day.

But often peoples' love doesn't lead them to God and then they die of old age. Does that mean their love wasn't genuine?

Love alone won't get people to God.

Does that mean their love wasn't genuine?

Their love was genuine.
Impartial
Posts: 375
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1/22/2015 1:07:52 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 1/22/2015 1:02:37 PM, ChristianPunk wrote:
At 1/22/2015 1:00:50 PM, Impartial wrote:
At 1/22/2015 8:28:32 AM, ChristianPunk wrote:
At 1/22/2015 4:28:06 AM, Impartial wrote:
At 1/21/2015 6:29:31 PM, ChristianPunk wrote:
At 1/21/2015 4:55:09 PM, Impartial wrote:
At 1/21/2015 4:43:57 PM, ChristianPunk wrote:
At 1/21/2015 3:44:52 PM, Impartial wrote:
At 1/21/2015 3:40:42 PM, ChristianPunk wrote:
At 1/21/2015 3:34:53 PM, Impartial wrote:
At 1/21/2015 1:54:04 PM, ChristianPunk wrote:
If they did, they'd know God and what he preaches. There is a part of the bible where it tells you who doesn't know God.

1 John 4:8 states if you do not love, then you do not know God. Because God is love. So we can already know this proves my point.

Another is when I claimed to believe in God, but I created a false one with Default Christianity. I believed God answered prayers to kill Muslims. I believe he hated blacks and gays like I did. I also believed he was ok with killings that were justified. Like I believed as long as somebody was a Muslim, it didn't matter if they were babies. I would've killed them. This was a classic example of an American version of Christianity turning me into Hitler. I even showed my study skills teacher some drawings I planned of bombing and burning Mosques and places where Muslims gathered in the Middle East. Clearly I didn't follow 1 John 4:8. So I didn't know the right God. Or God at all.

Pressupositionialism: 0

Christianity: 1

Since when has your religion had a monopoly on love?

It's citizens hasn't kept the monopoly. They own it, but make their satisfactory through other means of greed, lust (rape), war, and theft. Just because pure water is in a rusty barrel, doesn't mean it loses its purity for what it was known to originally be.

So as an atheist, I'm not allowed to love my family?

You are allowed to do whatever you want. "But just because you love somebody doesn't mean instant knowledge of the existentance of God. It takes searching deep.

Let me just correct you there, knowledge of the existentance of God is impossible. Love on the other hand does not need any God, not Allah, not Thor, no one. All these creatures are highly unimporant and irrelevant in terms of my love for someone.

True. Which is why I consider myself an Agnostic Theist and go by faith. I admit. I see several people who love others. Which is why I think that will lead them to God one day.

But often peoples' love doesn't lead them to God and then they die of old age. Does that mean their love wasn't genuine?

Love alone won't get people to God.

Does that mean their love wasn't genuine?

Their love was genuine.

So it seems John made a mistake.
To believe is to know nothing.
ChristianPunk
Posts: 1,710
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1/22/2015 1:14:09 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 1/22/2015 1:07:52 PM, Impartial wrote:
At 1/22/2015 1:02:37 PM, ChristianPunk wrote:
At 1/22/2015 1:00:50 PM, Impartial wrote:
At 1/22/2015 8:28:32 AM, ChristianPunk wrote:
At 1/22/2015 4:28:06 AM, Impartial wrote:
At 1/21/2015 6:29:31 PM, ChristianPunk wrote:
At 1/21/2015 4:55:09 PM, Impartial wrote:
At 1/21/2015 4:43:57 PM, ChristianPunk wrote:
At 1/21/2015 3:44:52 PM, Impartial wrote:
At 1/21/2015 3:40:42 PM, ChristianPunk wrote:
At 1/21/2015 3:34:53 PM, Impartial wrote:
At 1/21/2015 1:54:04 PM, ChristianPunk wrote:
If they did, they'd know God and what he preaches. There is a part of the bible where it tells you who doesn't know God.

1 John 4:8 states if you do not love, then you do not know God. Because God is love. So we can already know this proves my point.

Another is when I claimed to believe in God, but I created a false one with Default Christianity. I believed God answered prayers to kill Muslims. I believe he hated blacks and gays like I did. I also believed he was ok with killings that were justified. Like I believed as long as somebody was a Muslim, it didn't matter if they were babies. I would've killed them. This was a classic example of an American version of Christianity turning me into Hitler. I even showed my study skills teacher some drawings I planned of bombing and burning Mosques and places where Muslims gathered in the Middle East. Clearly I didn't follow 1 John 4:8. So I didn't know the right God. Or God at all.

Pressupositionialism: 0

Christianity: 1

Since when has your religion had a monopoly on love?

It's citizens hasn't kept the monopoly. They own it, but make their satisfactory through other means of greed, lust (rape), war, and theft. Just because pure water is in a rusty barrel, doesn't mean it loses its purity for what it was known to originally be.

So as an atheist, I'm not allowed to love my family?

You are allowed to do whatever you want. "But just because you love somebody doesn't mean instant knowledge of the existentance of God. It takes searching deep.

Let me just correct you there, knowledge of the existentance of God is impossible. Love on the other hand does not need any God, not Allah, not Thor, no one. All these creatures are highly unimporant and irrelevant in terms of my love for someone.

True. Which is why I consider myself an Agnostic Theist and go by faith. I admit. I see several people who love others. Which is why I think that will lead them to God one day.

But often peoples' love doesn't lead them to God and then they die of old age. Does that mean their love wasn't genuine?

Love alone won't get people to God.

Does that mean their love wasn't genuine?

Their love was genuine.

So it seems John made a mistake.

Depends on how you define love. Is it the love of romance or love of kindness (like the husband would his brother or friends.) John is talking about Agape love and love of kindness.
Impartial
Posts: 375
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1/22/2015 1:22:45 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 1/22/2015 1:14:09 PM, ChristianPunk wrote:
At 1/22/2015 1:07:52 PM, Impartial wrote:
At 1/22/2015 1:02:37 PM, ChristianPunk wrote:
At 1/22/2015 1:00:50 PM, Impartial wrote:
At 1/22/2015 8:28:32 AM, ChristianPunk wrote:
At 1/22/2015 4:28:06 AM, Impartial wrote:
At 1/21/2015 6:29:31 PM, ChristianPunk wrote:
At 1/21/2015 4:55:09 PM, Impartial wrote:
At 1/21/2015 4:43:57 PM, ChristianPunk wrote:
At 1/21/2015 3:44:52 PM, Impartial wrote:
At 1/21/2015 3:40:42 PM, ChristianPunk wrote:
At 1/21/2015 3:34:53 PM, Impartial wrote:
At 1/21/2015 1:54:04 PM, ChristianPunk wrote:
If they did, they'd know God and what he preaches. There is a part of the bible where it tells you who doesn't know God.

1 John 4:8 states if you do not love, then you do not know God. Because God is love. So we can already know this proves my point.

Another is when I claimed to believe in God, but I created a false one with Default Christianity. I believed God answered prayers to kill Muslims. I believe he hated blacks and gays like I did. I also believed he was ok with killings that were justified. Like I believed as long as somebody was a Muslim, it didn't matter if they were babies. I would've killed them. This was a classic example of an American version of Christianity turning me into Hitler. I even showed my study skills teacher some drawings I planned of bombing and burning Mosques and places where Muslims gathered in the Middle East. Clearly I didn't follow 1 John 4:8. So I didn't know the right God. Or God at all.

Pressupositionialism: 0

Christianity: 1

Since when has your religion had a monopoly on love?

It's citizens hasn't kept the monopoly. They own it, but make their satisfactory through other means of greed, lust (rape), war, and theft. Just because pure water is in a rusty barrel, doesn't mean it loses its purity for what it was known to originally be.

So as an atheist, I'm not allowed to love my family?

You are allowed to do whatever you want. "But just because you love somebody doesn't mean instant knowledge of the existentance of God. It takes searching deep.

Let me just correct you there, knowledge of the existentance of God is impossible. Love on the other hand does not need any God, not Allah, not Thor, no one. All these creatures are highly unimporant and irrelevant in terms of my love for someone.

True. Which is why I consider myself an Agnostic Theist and go by faith. I admit. I see several people who love others. Which is why I think that will lead them to God one day.

But often peoples' love doesn't lead them to God and then they die of old age. Does that mean their love wasn't genuine?

Love alone won't get people to God.

Does that mean their love wasn't genuine?

Their love was genuine.

So it seems John made a mistake.

Depends on how you define love. Is it the love of romance or love of kindness (like the husband would his brother or friends.) John is talking about Agape love and love of kindness.

He's not exactly the kindest of creatures. Quite the opposite. What did he invent cancer for?
To believe is to know nothing.
ChristianPunk
Posts: 1,710
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1/22/2015 4:09:23 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 1/22/2015 1:22:45 PM, Impartial wrote:
At 1/22/2015 1:14:09 PM, ChristianPunk wrote:
At 1/22/2015 1:07:52 PM, Impartial wrote:
At 1/22/2015 1:02:37 PM, ChristianPunk wrote:
At 1/22/2015 1:00:50 PM, Impartial wrote:
At 1/22/2015 8:28:32 AM, ChristianPunk wrote:
At 1/22/2015 4:28:06 AM, Impartial wrote:
At 1/21/2015 6:29:31 PM, ChristianPunk wrote:
At 1/21/2015 4:55:09 PM, Impartial wrote:
At 1/21/2015 4:43:57 PM, ChristianPunk wrote:
At 1/21/2015 3:44:52 PM, Impartial wrote:
At 1/21/2015 3:40:42 PM, ChristianPunk wrote:
At 1/21/2015 3:34:53 PM, Impartial wrote:
At 1/21/2015 1:54:04 PM, ChristianPunk wrote:
If they did, they'd know God and what he preaches. There is a part of the bible where it tells you who doesn't know God.

1 John 4:8 states if you do not love, then you do not know God. Because God is love. So we can already know this proves my point.

Another is when I claimed to believe in God, but I created a false one with Default Christianity. I believed God answered prayers to kill Muslims. I believe he hated blacks and gays like I did. I also believed he was ok with killings that were justified. Like I believed as long as somebody was a Muslim, it didn't matter if they were babies. I would've killed them. This was a classic example of an American version of Christianity turning me into Hitler. I even showed my study skills teacher some drawings I planned of bombing and burning Mosques and places where Muslims gathered in the Middle East. Clearly I didn't follow 1 John 4:8. So I didn't know the right God. Or God at all.

Pressupositionialism: 0

Christianity: 1

Since when has your religion had a monopoly on love?

It's citizens hasn't kept the monopoly. They own it, but make their satisfactory through other means of greed, lust (rape), war, and theft. Just because pure water is in a rusty barrel, doesn't mean it loses its purity for what it was known to originally be.

So as an atheist, I'm not allowed to love my family?

You are allowed to do whatever you want. "But just because you love somebody doesn't mean instant knowledge of the existentance of God. It takes searching deep.

Let me just correct you there, knowledge of the existentance of God is impossible. Love on the other hand does not need any God, not Allah, not Thor, no one. All these creatures are highly unimporant and irrelevant in terms of my love for someone.

True. Which is why I consider myself an Agnostic Theist and go by faith. I admit. I see several people who love others. Which is why I think that will lead them to God one day.

But often peoples' love doesn't lead them to God and then they die of old age. Does that mean their love wasn't genuine?

Love alone won't get people to God.

Does that mean their love wasn't genuine?

Their love was genuine.

So it seems John made a mistake.

Depends on how you define love. Is it the love of romance or love of kindness (like the husband would his brother or friends.) John is talking about Agape love and love of kindness.

He's not exactly the kindest of creatures. Quite the opposite. What did he invent cancer for?

So you'd prefer no death?
Impartial
Posts: 375
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1/23/2015 4:58:26 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 1/22/2015 4:09:23 PM, ChristianPunk wrote:
At 1/22/2015 1:22:45 PM, Impartial wrote:
At 1/22/2015 1:14:09 PM, ChristianPunk wrote:
At 1/22/2015 1:07:52 PM, Impartial wrote:
At 1/22/2015 1:02:37 PM, ChristianPunk wrote:
At 1/22/2015 1:00:50 PM, Impartial wrote:
At 1/22/2015 8:28:32 AM, ChristianPunk wrote:
At 1/22/2015 4:28:06 AM, Impartial wrote:
At 1/21/2015 6:29:31 PM, ChristianPunk wrote:
At 1/21/2015 4:55:09 PM, Impartial wrote:
At 1/21/2015 4:43:57 PM, ChristianPunk wrote:
At 1/21/2015 3:44:52 PM, Impartial wrote:
At 1/21/2015 3:40:42 PM, ChristianPunk wrote:
At 1/21/2015 3:34:53 PM, Impartial wrote:
At 1/21/2015 1:54:04 PM, ChristianPunk wrote:
If they did, they'd know God and what he preaches. There is a part of the bible where it tells you who doesn't know God.

1 John 4:8 states if you do not love, then you do not know God. Because God is love. So we can already know this proves my point.

Another is when I claimed to believe in God, but I created a false one with Default Christianity. I believed God answered prayers to kill Muslims. I believe he hated blacks and gays like I did. I also believed he was ok with killings that were justified. Like I believed as long as somebody was a Muslim, it didn't matter if they were babies. I would've killed them. This was a classic example of an American version of Christianity turning me into Hitler. I even showed my study skills teacher some drawings I planned of bombing and burning Mosques and places where Muslims gathered in the Middle East. Clearly I didn't follow 1 John 4:8. So I didn't know the right God. Or God at all.

Pressupositionialism: 0

Christianity: 1

Since when has your religion had a monopoly on love?

It's citizens hasn't kept the monopoly. They own it, but make their satisfactory through other means of greed, lust (rape), war, and theft. Just because pure water is in a rusty barrel, doesn't mean it loses its purity for what it was known to originally be.

So as an atheist, I'm not allowed to love my family?

You are allowed to do whatever you want. "But just because you love somebody doesn't mean instant knowledge of the existentance of God. It takes searching deep.

Let me just correct you there, knowledge of the existentance of God is impossible. Love on the other hand does not need any God, not Allah, not Thor, no one. All these creatures are highly unimporant and irrelevant in terms of my love for someone.

True. Which is why I consider myself an Agnostic Theist and go by faith. I admit. I see several people who love others. Which is why I think that will lead them to God one day.

But often peoples' love doesn't lead them to God and then they die of old age. Does that mean their love wasn't genuine?

Love alone won't get people to God.

Does that mean their love wasn't genuine?

Their love was genuine.

So it seems John made a mistake.

Depends on how you define love. Is it the love of romance or love of kindness (like the husband would his brother or friends.) John is talking about Agape love and love of kindness.

He's not exactly the kindest of creatures. Quite the opposite. What did he invent cancer for?

So you'd prefer no death?

What I'd prefer has no relevance to reality. I don't believe something because it happens to fit in with what I want.
To believe is to know nothing.
ChristianPunk
Posts: 1,710
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1/23/2015 8:04:05 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 1/23/2015 4:58:26 AM, Impartial wrote:
At 1/22/2015 4:09:23 PM, ChristianPunk wrote:
At 1/22/2015 1:22:45 PM, Impartial wrote:
At 1/22/2015 1:14:09 PM, ChristianPunk wrote:
At 1/22/2015 1:07:52 PM, Impartial wrote:
At 1/22/2015 1:02:37 PM, ChristianPunk wrote:
At 1/22/2015 1:00:50 PM, Impartial wrote:
At 1/22/2015 8:28:32 AM, ChristianPunk wrote:
At 1/22/2015 4:28:06 AM, Impartial wrote:
At 1/21/2015 6:29:31 PM, ChristianPunk wrote:
At 1/21/2015 4:55:09 PM, Impartial wrote:
At 1/21/2015 4:43:57 PM, ChristianPunk wrote:
At 1/21/2015 3:44:52 PM, Impartial wrote:
At 1/21/2015 3:40:42 PM, ChristianPunk wrote:
At 1/21/2015 3:34:53 PM, Impartial wrote:
At 1/21/2015 1:54:04 PM, ChristianPunk wrote:
If they did, they'd know God and what he preaches. There is a part of the bible where it tells you who doesn't know God.

1 John 4:8 states if you do not love, then you do not know God. Because God is love. So we can already know this proves my point.

Another is when I claimed to believe in God, but I created a false one with Default Christianity. I believed God answered prayers to kill Muslims. I believe he hated blacks and gays like I did. I also believed he was ok with killings that were justified. Like I believed as long as somebody was a Muslim, it didn't matter if they were babies. I would've killed them. This was a classic example of an American version of Christianity turning me into Hitler. I even showed my study skills teacher some drawings I planned of bombing and burning Mosques and places where Muslims gathered in the Middle East. Clearly I didn't follow 1 John 4:8. So I didn't know the right God. Or God at all.

Pressupositionialism: 0

Christianity: 1

Since when has your religion had a monopoly on love?

It's citizens hasn't kept the monopoly. They own it, but make their satisfactory through other means of greed, lust (rape), war, and theft. Just because pure water is in a rusty barrel, doesn't mean it loses its purity for what it was known to originally be.

So as an atheist, I'm not allowed to love my family?

You are allowed to do whatever you want. "But just because you love somebody doesn't mean instant knowledge of the existentance of God. It takes searching deep.

Let me just correct you there, knowledge of the existentance of God is impossible. Love on the other hand does not need any God, not Allah, not Thor, no one. All these creatures are highly unimporant and irrelevant in terms of my love for someone.

True. Which is why I consider myself an Agnostic Theist and go by faith. I admit. I see several people who love others. Which is why I think that will lead them to God one day.

But often peoples' love doesn't lead them to God and then they die of old age. Does that mean their love wasn't genuine?

Love alone won't get people to God.

Does that mean their love wasn't genuine?

Their love was genuine.

So it seems John made a mistake.

Depends on how you define love. Is it the love of romance or love of kindness (like the husband would his brother or friends.) John is talking about Agape love and love of kindness.

He's not exactly the kindest of creatures. Quite the opposite. What did he invent cancer for?

So you'd prefer no death?

What I'd prefer has no relevance to reality. I don't believe something because it happens to fit in with what I want.

Death is good and bad at the same time.
Classified
Posts: 251
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1/23/2015 8:10:14 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 1/21/2015 4:55:09 PM, Impartial wrote:
At 1/21/2015 4:43:57 PM, ChristianPunk wrote:
At 1/21/2015 3:44:52 PM, Impartial wrote:
At 1/21/2015 3:40:42 PM, ChristianPunk wrote:
At 1/21/2015 3:34:53 PM, Impartial wrote:
At 1/21/2015 1:54:04 PM, ChristianPunk wrote:
If they did, they'd know God and what he preaches. There is a part of the bible where it tells you who doesn't know God.

1 John 4:8 states if you do not love, then you do not know God. Because God is love. So we can already know this proves my point.

Another is when I claimed to believe in God, but I created a false one with Default Christianity. I believed God answered prayers to kill Muslims. I believe he hated blacks and gays like I did. I also believed he was ok with killings that were justified. Like I believed as long as somebody was a Muslim, it didn't matter if they were babies. I would've killed them. This was a classic example of an American version of Christianity turning me into Hitler. I even showed my study skills teacher some drawings I planned of bombing and burning Mosques and places where Muslims gathered in the Middle East. Clearly I didn't follow 1 John 4:8. So I didn't know the right God. Or God at all.

Pressupositionialism: 0

Christianity: 1

Since when has your religion had a monopoly on love?

It's citizens hasn't kept the monopoly. They own it, but make their satisfactory through other means of greed, lust (rape), war, and theft. Just because pure water is in a rusty barrel, doesn't mean it loses its purity for what it was known to originally be.

So as an atheist, I'm not allowed to love my family?

You are allowed to do whatever you want. "But just because you love somebody doesn't mean instant knowledge of the existentance of God. It takes searching deep.

Let me just correct you there, knowledge of the existentance of God is impossible. Love on the other hand does not need any God, not Allah, not Thor, no one. All these creatures are highly unimporant and irrelevant in terms of my love for someone.

Knowledge of the existence of God only comes by faith.
Impartial
Posts: 375
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1/23/2015 10:53:31 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 1/23/2015 8:10:14 AM, Classified wrote:
At 1/21/2015 4:55:09 PM, Impartial wrote:
At 1/21/2015 4:43:57 PM, ChristianPunk wrote:
At 1/21/2015 3:44:52 PM, Impartial wrote:
At 1/21/2015 3:40:42 PM, ChristianPunk wrote:
At 1/21/2015 3:34:53 PM, Impartial wrote:
At 1/21/2015 1:54:04 PM, ChristianPunk wrote:
If they did, they'd know God and what he preaches. There is a part of the bible where it tells you who doesn't know God.

1 John 4:8 states if you do not love, then you do not know God. Because God is love. So we can already know this proves my point.

Another is when I claimed to believe in God, but I created a false one with Default Christianity. I believed God answered prayers to kill Muslims. I believe he hated blacks and gays like I did. I also believed he was ok with killings that were justified. Like I believed as long as somebody was a Muslim, it didn't matter if they were babies. I would've killed them. This was a classic example of an American version of Christianity turning me into Hitler. I even showed my study skills teacher some drawings I planned of bombing and burning Mosques and places where Muslims gathered in the Middle East. Clearly I didn't follow 1 John 4:8. So I didn't know the right God. Or God at all.

Pressupositionialism: 0

Christianity: 1

Since when has your religion had a monopoly on love?

It's citizens hasn't kept the monopoly. They own it, but make their satisfactory through other means of greed, lust (rape), war, and theft. Just because pure water is in a rusty barrel, doesn't mean it loses its purity for what it was known to originally be.

So as an atheist, I'm not allowed to love my family?

You are allowed to do whatever you want. "But just because you love somebody doesn't mean instant knowledge of the existentance of God. It takes searching deep.

Let me just correct you there, knowledge of the existentance of God is impossible. Love on the other hand does not need any God, not Allah, not Thor, no one. All these creatures are highly unimporant and irrelevant in terms of my love for someone.

Knowledge of the existence of God only comes by faith.

That doesn't make sense. Faith is subjective. You think there is a God, you do not know it. Anyone who says they know that a God exists is either a liar or insane. I'll give you the benefit of the doubt and assume you are neither.
To believe is to know nothing.
jodybirdy
Posts: 2,089
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1/23/2015 11:25:45 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 1/22/2015 5:10:47 AM, Classified wrote:
At 1/22/2015 4:28:06 AM, Impartial wrote:
At 1/21/2015 6:29:31 PM, ChristianPunk wrote:
At 1/21/2015 4:55:09 PM, Impartial wrote:
At 1/21/2015 4:43:57 PM, ChristianPunk wrote:
At 1/21/2015 3:44:52 PM, Impartial wrote:
At 1/21/2015 3:40:42 PM, ChristianPunk wrote:
At 1/21/2015 3:34:53 PM, Impartial wrote:
At 1/21/2015 1:54:04 PM, ChristianPunk wrote:
If they did, they'd know God and what he preaches. There is a part of the bible where it tells you who doesn't know God.

1 John 4:8 states if you do not love, then you do not know God. Because God is love. So we can already know this proves my point.

Another is when I claimed to believe in God, but I created a false one with Default Christianity. I believed God answered prayers to kill Muslims. I believe he hated blacks and gays like I did. I also believed he was ok with killings that were justified. Like I believed as long as somebody was a Muslim, it didn't matter if they were babies. I would've killed them. This was a classic example of an American version of Christianity turning me into Hitler. I even showed my study skills teacher some drawings I planned of bombing and burning Mosques and places where Muslims gathered in the Middle East. Clearly I didn't follow 1 John 4:8. So I didn't know the right God. Or God at all.

Pressupositionialism: 0

Christianity: 1

Since when has your religion had a monopoly on love?

It's citizens hasn't kept the monopoly. They own it, but make their satisfactory through other means of greed, lust (rape), war, and theft. Just because pure water is in a rusty barrel, doesn't mean it loses its purity for what it was known to originally be.

So as an atheist, I'm not allowed to love my family?

You are allowed to do whatever you want. "But just because you love somebody doesn't mean instant knowledge of the existentance of God. It takes searching deep.

Let me just correct you there, knowledge of the existentance of God is impossible. Love on the other hand does not need any God, not Allah, not Thor, no one. All these creatures are highly unimporant and irrelevant in terms of my love for someone.

True. Which is why I consider myself an Agnostic Theist and go by faith. I admit. I see several people who love others. Which is why I think that will lead them to God one day.

But often peoples' love doesn't lead them to God and then they die of old age. Does that mean their love wasn't genuine?

Thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind. Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself. - Matthew 22: 37b, 39b.

Love your enemies, bless them that curse you, do good to them that hate you, and pray for them which despitefully use you, and persecute you. - Matthew 5: 44b

Love doesn't work that way. You cannot command anyone to love. Love is something that happens within. So, commanding someone to love you, or their neighbor, or enemy, only results in them not really loving you, their neighbor, or enemy. If God really made us, then surely God knows that. I don't believe in God and by Christian definition that means I don't know him. But I love people as a default emotion. It is rare for someone to push me into not loving them. So, I find your argument contrary to what I personally have witnessed.
A rock pile ceases to be a rock pile the moment a single man contemplates it, bearing within him the image of a cathedral."