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Jesus Wouldn't be a Modern-Day Christian

R0b1Billion
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1/21/2015 9:05:52 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
I don't see Jesus as a Christian. Jesus used parables to make moral points. The point of the parables are the lessons on how to behave morally, yet Christians focus more on the superficial subject-matter of the stories. (And I think atheists do to, which is sad because Jesus is so much more than miracles and blind faith). Take walking on water, for instance. Jesus explains he is on top of the water, and he called Peter out to him. Peter's faith waivers and he starts to sink, and needs Jesus to help him up. To a Christian, that seems to be all they get out of it: a rather pointless story, perhaps only important in the sense that it shows he is a demigod because of his supernatural ability. But what about the actual lesson behind it?

Jesus speaks of "the path." The path is simply the actions of somebody who is not being selfish and indulgent - somebody who has attained enlightenment and has conquered worldly desires. It takes faith to achieve this, especially with so many desires to choose from. Virtually everyone, if not totally everyone, falters and turns back to these desires because they lose faith and become afraid that they need such things to be happy. Jesus tells us to be strong and don't give in, and if we succeed we won't regret it. Poetically, we will walk on the water if our faith is strong. Like Peter, we always falter and start to sink as material desires, insecurity, and other factors cause us to sin.

Why do Christians insist on literal interpretation of Jesus' actions? Why not actually listen to him and do what he's saying instead of just worshiping him as a demigod and insisting on metaphysical nonsense? Is it easier to just believe he is supernaturally-gifted so that they can claim to follow him without actually doing what he is saying? Following Jesus isn't about rituals and lip-service, it's about self-sacrifice. Take some money (or time, if you lack money) and give it to a good cause. Forgive people, even the worst of people (especially the worst of people) no matter what you have for reasoning to justify hating them. Resist the urge to be a "consumer." Heaven is the state you will achieve after you rid yourself of these vices, not a holy place your soul goes after you die just because you did a song and dance.
Beliefs in a nutshell:
- The Ends never justify the Means.
- Objectivity is secondary to subjectivity.
- The War on Drugs is the worst policy in the U.S.
- Most people worship technology as a religion.
- Computers will never become sentient.
ChristianPunk
Posts: 1,710
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1/21/2015 10:28:46 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 1/21/2015 9:05:52 PM, R0b1Billion wrote:
I don't see Jesus as a Christian. Jesus used parables to make moral points. The point of the parables are the lessons on how to behave morally, yet Christians focus more on the superficial subject-matter of the stories. (And I think atheists do to, which is sad because Jesus is so much more than miracles and blind faith). Take walking on water, for instance. Jesus explains he is on top of the water, and he called Peter out to him. Peter's faith waivers and he starts to sink, and needs Jesus to help him up. To a Christian, that seems to be all they get out of it: a rather pointless story, perhaps only important in the sense that it shows he is a demigod because of his supernatural ability. But what about the actual lesson behind it?

Jesus speaks of "the path." The path is simply the actions of somebody who is not being selfish and indulgent - somebody who has attained enlightenment and has conquered worldly desires. It takes faith to achieve this, especially with so many desires to choose from. Virtually everyone, if not totally everyone, falters and turns back to these desires because they lose faith and become afraid that they need such things to be happy. Jesus tells us to be strong and don't give in, and if we succeed we won't regret it. Poetically, we will walk on the water if our faith is strong. Like Peter, we always falter and start to sink as material desires, insecurity, and other factors cause us to sin.

Why do Christians insist on literal interpretation of Jesus' actions? Why not actually listen to him and do what he's saying instead of just worshiping him as a demigod and insisting on metaphysical nonsense? Is it easier to just believe he is supernaturally-gifted so that they can claim to follow him without actually doing what he is saying? Following Jesus isn't about rituals and lip-service, it's about self-sacrifice. Take some money (or time, if you lack money) and give it to a good cause. Forgive people, even the worst of people (especially the worst of people) no matter what you have for reasoning to justify hating them. Resist the urge to be a "consumer." Heaven is the state you will achieve after you rid yourself of these vices, not a holy place your soul goes after you die just because you did a song and dance.

You make some fine points here. I think the reason why people tend to think of it as not metaphors is because the letters are addressed to be eye witnessed accounts, like Luke describes his Gospel to be collections of eye witness accounts he collected from other people. But there are points where parables are mentioned in the books.
R0b1Billion
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1/21/2015 10:52:36 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 1/21/2015 10:28:46 PM, ChristianPunk wrote:

You make some fine points here. I think the reason why people tend to think of it as not metaphors is because the letters are addressed to be eye witnessed accounts, like Luke describes his Gospel to be collections of eye witness accounts he collected from other people. But there are points where parables are mentioned in the books.

Thank, you, and I appreciate you not being defensive, being a Christian. Keller makes some decent points, I like that he puts it fluidly, where one must make the choice to exactly how literal they want to be.

I grew up learning about science and reason. Most people in my shoes wouldn't open the Bible, because of such obviously unreasonable things they know are inside. I opened it anyway, and I have found that it contains the most profoundly important moral lessons I've ever learned. The story of Job as a lesson of hope... the story of Cain and Abel as a lesson of being open about your past and not judging others for their past. If something in the Bible seems to blatantly contradict common sense, then I assume it is metaphorical. Snakes don't talk and men don't walk on water. With a little common sense, the Bible becomes the ultimate moral code for a conscious intellectual being. Most people look at enlightenment as a function of intellectual ambition, as a journey of becoming smarter and learning the secrets to the universe (or something along those lines). But really, enlightenment is the path Jesus lays out. Somebody with an IQ of 80, who accepts that path and walks it successfully, is much more enlightened than another person with an IQ of 160 that has mastered countless intellectual pursuits. In that way I would say heaven can be attained by the virtuous person, and whether or not that concept extends to the afterlife is impossible for me to know, but I'm betting such consequences are not wiped clean the instant we die.
Beliefs in a nutshell:
- The Ends never justify the Means.
- Objectivity is secondary to subjectivity.
- The War on Drugs is the worst policy in the U.S.
- Most people worship technology as a religion.
- Computers will never become sentient.
ChristianPunk
Posts: 1,710
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1/22/2015 12:17:38 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 1/21/2015 10:52:36 PM, R0b1Billion wrote:
At 1/21/2015 10:28:46 PM, ChristianPunk wrote:

You make some fine points here. I think the reason why people tend to think of it as not metaphors is because the letters are addressed to be eye witnessed accounts, like Luke describes his Gospel to be collections of eye witness accounts he collected from other people. But there are points where parables are mentioned in the books.

Thank, you, and I appreciate you not being defensive, being a Christian. Keller makes some decent points, I like that he puts it fluidly, where one must make the choice to exactly how literal they want to be.

I grew up learning about science and reason. Most people in my shoes wouldn't open the Bible, because of such obviously unreasonable things they know are inside. I opened it anyway, and I have found that it contains the most profoundly important moral lessons I've ever learned. The story of Job as a lesson of hope... the story of Cain and Abel as a lesson of being open about your past and not judging others for their past. If something in the Bible seems to blatantly contradict common sense, then I assume it is metaphorical. Snakes don't talk and men don't walk on water. With a little common sense, the Bible becomes the ultimate moral code for a conscious intellectual being. Most people look at enlightenment as a function of intellectual ambition, as a journey of becoming smarter and learning the secrets to the universe (or something along those lines). But really, enlightenment is the path Jesus lays out. Somebody with an IQ of 80, who accepts that path and walks it successfully, is much more enlightened than another person with an IQ of 160 that has mastered countless intellectual pursuits. In that way I would say heaven can be attained by the virtuous person, and whether or not that concept extends to the afterlife is impossible for me to know, but I'm betting such consequences are not wiped clean the instant we die.

Well I am being defensive, just not aggressive. Lol. Bible says to be reasonable and compassionate when you defend.

But I believe everything you said except that part on Jesus' divinity. I believed he did these things. I'd say it's possible that if a God came down as flesh, he would have to keep his divine powers as well or would at least have access to them. So I see that it's a possibility, but I can't say I know this to be truth since there are still limits here that don't allow me to know 100%.
uncung
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1/22/2015 1:11:04 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
Is jesus still in flesh now? or he transforms into spirit? if so then there are two spirit Gods now.
R0b1Billion
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1/22/2015 8:03:00 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 1/22/2015 12:17:38 AM, ChristianPunk wrote:

Well I am being defensive, just not aggressive. Lol. Bible says to be reasonable and compassionate when you defend.

But I believe everything you said except that part on Jesus' divinity. I believed he did these things. I'd say it's possible that if a God came down as flesh, he would have to keep his divine powers as well or would at least have access to them. So I see that it's a possibility, but I can't say I know this to be truth since there are still limits here that don't allow me to know 100%.

I can't say for sure Jesus didn't have divine powers, but I do know one thing: his teachings have merit with or without them. Why introduce such... problematic reasoning... if it is unnecessary? It seems to me that only cheapens the logic underlying his ideas, to say that his merit depends on supernatural acts.
Beliefs in a nutshell:
- The Ends never justify the Means.
- Objectivity is secondary to subjectivity.
- The War on Drugs is the worst policy in the U.S.
- Most people worship technology as a religion.
- Computers will never become sentient.
R0b1Billion
Posts: 3,733
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1/22/2015 8:23:03 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 1/22/2015 1:11:04 AM, uncung wrote:
Is jesus still in flesh now? or he transforms into spirit? if so then there are two spirit Gods now.

My best idea of the stuff that makes up the soul (consciousness) is that it does not exist in discrete amounts where-ever it comes from. It makes more sense that the spirit combines with other spirits after we die. I say this for several reasons:

1) It makes little sense to me that I am who I am now for all eternity, separate and discrete through all time and space. How and why would my soul be preserved forever the way it is? Would my soul enter another different body, or even different organism, the way it is? This makes little sense. At one point there were no humans, then very few, now there are very many and there could be exponentially more, hypothetically, later on. It makes more sense that souls are created as necessary, unique only temporarily, and then return to the whole afterwards.

2) One of the simplest, most effective means for karma (loosely-speaking) to assert itself is if our souls combine to one later on. In that way, our selfishness and selflessness balances out the equation without some arbitrary action like reward or punishment in the afterlife. Somebody who is exceptionally good or bad in life, who dies before getting what they deserve, will find balance when their soul rejoins the collective. I see balance everywhere I look in life, and it makes sense that enlightenment would bring a clear understanding of this balance. But when different lives are compared, the balance seems off, and there has to be something, afterwards, that fixes it. Compare the life of a bad person who is never brought to justice, like Pol Pot, to somebody who lives humbly but is never recognized for it. Compare an infant who dies young to somebody who lives a full, fruitful life. Perhaps these balances occur on their own (Pol Pot could have been tormented privately by his acts, the dead infant never experiences the hardships of life), or perhaps we're all part of the same life energy and everything that goes around comes around in a more intrinsic sense.

If the soul exists in such a conglomerate, then there wouldn't be "two" souls in existence, only one large one that is separate only from the perspective we have down here. God is not a separate being, it is simply what we call this conglomerate.
Beliefs in a nutshell:
- The Ends never justify the Means.
- Objectivity is secondary to subjectivity.
- The War on Drugs is the worst policy in the U.S.
- Most people worship technology as a religion.
- Computers will never become sentient.
ChristianPunk
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1/22/2015 8:27:22 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 1/22/2015 8:03:00 AM, R0b1Billion wrote:
At 1/22/2015 12:17:38 AM, ChristianPunk wrote:

Well I am being defensive, just not aggressive. Lol. Bible says to be reasonable and compassionate when you defend.

But I believe everything you said except that part on Jesus' divinity. I believed he did these things. I'd say it's possible that if a God came down as flesh, he would have to keep his divine powers as well or would at least have access to them. So I see that it's a possibility, but I can't say I know this to be truth since there are still limits here that don't allow me to know 100%.

I can't say for sure Jesus didn't have divine powers, but I do know one thing: his teachings have merit with or without them. Why introduce such... problematic reasoning... if it is unnecessary? It seems to me that only cheapens the logic underlying his ideas, to say that his merit depends on supernatural acts.

To me, it's best put by CS Lewis.

"I am trying here to prevent anyone saying the really foolish thing that people often say about Him: 'I'm ready to accept Jesus as a great moral teacher, but I don't accept His claim to be God.' That is the one thing we must not say. A man who was merely a man and said the sort of things Jesus said would not be a great moral teacher. He would either be a lunatic -- on a level with the man who says he is a poached egg -- or else he would be the Devil of Hell. You must make your choice. Either this man was, and is, the Son of God: or else a madman or something worse." -- C.S. Lewis, Mere Christianity

If we were to give respect to Jesus, we'd accept him divine.
JJ50
Posts: 2,144
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1/22/2015 8:33:53 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
Jesus was a human, he certainly wasn't 'divine',whatever that word really means. However, if he was around today, instead of long dead, he could well be surprised at how some of his more extreme followers behave. He might well chuck them out of his gang for bringing the faith into disrepute!
uncung
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1/22/2015 8:45:21 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
To me, it's best put by CS Lewis.

"I am trying here to prevent anyone saying the really foolish thing that people often say about Him: 'I'm ready to accept Jesus as a great moral teacher, but I don't accept His claim to be God.' That is the one thing we must not say. A man who was merely a man and said the sort of things Jesus said would not be a great moral teacher. He would either be a lunatic -- on a level with the man who says he is a poached egg -- or else he would be the Devil of Hell. You must make your choice. Either this man was, and is, the Son of God: or else a madman or something worse." -- C.S. Lewis, Mere Christianity

If we were to give respect to Jesus, we'd accept him divine.

Just because you insist to respect him, then you induct him as a God?
ChristianPunk
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1/22/2015 8:50:24 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 1/22/2015 8:45:21 AM, uncung wrote:
To me, it's best put by CS Lewis.

"I am trying here to prevent anyone saying the really foolish thing that people often say about Him: 'I'm ready to accept Jesus as a great moral teacher, but I don't accept His claim to be God.' That is the one thing we must not say. A man who was merely a man and said the sort of things Jesus said would not be a great moral teacher. He would either be a lunatic -- on a level with the man who says he is a poached egg -- or else he would be the Devil of Hell. You must make your choice. Either this man was, and is, the Son of God: or else a madman or something worse." -- C.S. Lewis, Mere Christianity

If we were to give respect to Jesus, we'd accept him divine.

Just because you insist to respect him, then you induct him as a God?

When he claimed to be God
uncung
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1/22/2015 8:52:41 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
Just because you insist to respect him, then you induct him as a God?

When he claimed to be God

Had he ever claimed to be God? nope.
GamrDeb8rBbrH8r
Posts: 341
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1/22/2015 9:18:51 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 1/21/2015 9:22:57 PM, uncung wrote:
Jesus Wouldn't be a Modern-Day Christian
moreover he was a muslim.

No silly. Islam didn't even exist yet.
"There's no diversity because we're burning in the melting pot."

-Immortal Technique

Rap battle VS Truth_Seeker: http://www.debate.org...
LifeMeansGodIsGood
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1/22/2015 9:33:08 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 1/21/2015 9:05:52 PM, R0b1Billion wrote:
I don't see Jesus as a Christian. Jesus used parables to make moral points. The point of the parables are the lessons on how to behave morally, yet Christians focus more on the superficial subject-matter of the stories. (And I think atheists do to, which is sad because Jesus is so much more than miracles and blind faith). Take walking on water, for instance. Jesus explains he is on top of the water, and he called Peter out to him. Peter's faith waivers and he starts to sink, and needs Jesus to help him up. To a Christian, that seems to be all they get out of it: a rather pointless story, perhaps only important in the sense that it shows he is a demigod because of his supernatural ability. But what about the actual lesson behind it?

Jesus speaks of "the path." The path is simply the actions of somebody who is not being selfish and indulgent - somebody who has attained enlightenment and has conquered worldly desires. It takes faith to achieve this, especially with so many desires to choose from. Virtually everyone, if not totally everyone, falters and turns back to these desires because they lose faith and become afraid that they need such things to be happy. Jesus tells us to be strong and don't give in, and if we succeed we won't regret it. Poetically, we will walk on the water if our faith is strong. Like Peter, we always falter and start to sink as material desires, insecurity, and other factors cause us to sin.

Why do Christians insist on literal interpretation of Jesus' actions? Why not actually listen to him and do what he's saying instead of just worshiping him as a demigod and insisting on metaphysical nonsense? Is it easier to just believe he is supernaturally-gifted so that they can claim to follow him without actually doing what he is saying? Following Jesus isn't about rituals and lip-service, it's about self-sacrifice. Take some money (or time, if you lack money) and give it to a good cause. Forgive people, even the worst of people (especially the worst of people) no matter what you have for reasoning to justify hating them. Resist the urge to be a "consumer." Heaven is the state you will achieve after you rid yourself of these vices, not a holy place your soul goes after you die just because you did a song and dance.

Why don't we just all bow down to you and call you Jesus and do whatever you tell us to do?
LifeMeansGodIsGood
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1/22/2015 9:37:24 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 1/21/2015 9:22:57 PM, uncung wrote:
Jesus Wouldn't be a Modern-Day Christian
moreover he was a muslim.

Yes, Jesus was a Muslim, and when he comes back to earth, he will correct all the Christians to make them say God's name is Allah and Muhammed is the Man of all men, the prophet of Allah. Then when Jesus get's all of the Christians in one place, the Christians who won't change their minds and say Allah is God and Muhammed is the final prophet who corrected Jesus so he can correct the Christians, Jesus will put a bunch of nukes around his waist and be a martyr for Allah as he blows himself and all the infidel Christians into obliviion, then they all burn in Hell for a little while untill the fire corrects them and they know God's name is Allah and Muhammed is his prophet and then they all get to go to paradise to join the Muslims and Jehovah's withnesses ruling the world.
ChristianPunk
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1/22/2015 9:49:38 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 1/22/2015 9:33:08 AM, LifeMeansGodIsGood wrote:
At 1/21/2015 9:05:52 PM, R0b1Billion wrote:
I don't see Jesus as a Christian. Jesus used parables to make moral points. The point of the parables are the lessons on how to behave morally, yet Christians focus more on the superficial subject-matter of the stories. (And I think atheists do to, which is sad because Jesus is so much more than miracles and blind faith). Take walking on water, for instance. Jesus explains he is on top of the water, and he called Peter out to him. Peter's faith waivers and he starts to sink, and needs Jesus to help him up. To a Christian, that seems to be all they get out of it: a rather pointless story, perhaps only important in the sense that it shows he is a demigod because of his supernatural ability. But what about the actual lesson behind it?

Jesus speaks of "the path." The path is simply the actions of somebody who is not being selfish and indulgent - somebody who has attained enlightenment and has conquered worldly desires. It takes faith to achieve this, especially with so many desires to choose from. Virtually everyone, if not totally everyone, falters and turns back to these desires because they lose faith and become afraid that they need such things to be happy. Jesus tells us to be strong and don't give in, and if we succeed we won't regret it. Poetically, we will walk on the water if our faith is strong. Like Peter, we always falter and start to sink as material desires, insecurity, and other factors cause us to sin.

Why do Christians insist on literal interpretation of Jesus' actions? Why not actually listen to him and do what he's saying instead of just worshiping him as a demigod and insisting on metaphysical nonsense? Is it easier to just believe he is supernaturally-gifted so that they can claim to follow him without actually doing what he is saying? Following Jesus isn't about rituals and lip-service, it's about self-sacrifice. Take some money (or time, if you lack money) and give it to a good cause. Forgive people, even the worst of people (especially the worst of people) no matter what you have for reasoning to justify hating them. Resist the urge to be a "consumer." Heaven is the state you will achieve after you rid yourself of these vices, not a holy place your soul goes after you die just because you did a song and dance.

Why don't we just all bow down to you and call you Jesus and do whatever you tell us to do?

Because unlike Jesus, he didn't advocate you to do so.
ethang5
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1/22/2015 9:51:39 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 1/22/2015 8:52:41 AM, uncung wrote:
Just because you insist to respect him, then you induct him as a God?

When he claimed to be God

Had he ever claimed to be God? nope.

Actually He did. It's still up to each of us to believe or not believe, but He certainly did claim to be God.

And His claim was backed up by the OT prophets, the NT disciples and apostles, and the Father Himself.

One may disbelieve that Jesus is God, but one cannot logically disbelieve he called Himself God or that He was called God by the Bible.
ChristianPunk
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1/22/2015 9:53:09 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 1/22/2015 8:52:41 AM, uncung wrote:
Just because you insist to respect him, then you induct him as a God?

When he claimed to be God

Had he ever claimed to be God? nope.

http://youtu.be...
Harikrish
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1/22/2015 10:07:21 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
Jesus wouldn't be a modern day Christian. He would choose instead to be a scientist.

Jesus did not teach anything that can be applied practically today. Teaching about loving is over simplistic. Humans by nature like animals are capable of loving.
He preformed miracles that cannot be taught or replicated, it was so impractical. He healed a few, fed a few thousands. But with science and technology man is able to feed billions, heal millions and supply all the wine millions drink. If we relied on Jesus, the world would starve to death or become extinct from diseases.
Jesus could not even bring peace to the region he was born in or bring peace to the people he belonged to. He prayed and cried all the way to the cross.

Matthew 27:46 About three in the afternoon Jesus cried out in a loud voice, "Eli, Eli, lema sabachthani?" (which means "My God, my God, why have you forsaken me?").

Jesus in the modern times would choose to be a scientist. Find a cure for cancer, a solution for global warming, eradicate diseases, poverty and hunger. Jesus couldn't do all that as God. He might do better as a scientist.
R0b1Billion
Posts: 3,733
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1/22/2015 10:37:10 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 1/22/2015 8:27:22 AM, ChristianPunk wrote:

To me, it's best put by CS Lewis.

"I am trying here to prevent anyone saying the really foolish thing that people often say about Him: 'I'm ready to accept Jesus as a great moral teacher, but I don't accept His claim to be God.' That is the one thing we must not say. A man who was merely a man and said the sort of things Jesus said would not be a great moral teacher. He would either be a lunatic -- on a level with the man who says he is a poached egg -- or else he would be the Devil of Hell. You must make your choice. Either this man was, and is, the Son of God: or else a madman or something worse." -- C.S. Lewis, Mere Christianity

If we were to give respect to Jesus, we'd accept him divine.

Ah yes, my daughter's mother converted to Christianity a few years ago. She's not a good moral person in any respect, but she is ready to call herself a Christian and accept the metaphysical aspects. She gave me this Mere Christianity book to read, and I got a chapter or two in and stopped reading because I could tell his faith was not strong. He's just like my daughter's mother: ready to accept divinity, but not able to walk the path Jesus actually says to walk. He wants to advertise himself as standing with Jesus so that all will see him as such, but quick to make excuses about why Jesus's actual message is not that important.

I now see that most Christians follow suit with Lewis, many of them don't even bother reading the New Testament. They may choose to go to church or follow one or two popular Christian talking points (e.g., voting pro-life), but Christians are primarily concerned simply with broadcasting to the world that they "believe." It is a show of vanity outwardly, and inwardly it helps ease their insecurity about not being on the right side of the fence when they die so they can assure entry to the luxuries of Heaven. That is Christianity, and I am through indulging Christians who have such selfish motivations... From here on in I am going to throw their hypocrisy back into their faces at every opportunity, and just as Jesus exposed the hypocrisy of the popular piety of the day, I am going to expose how fake and un-Christ-like Christians are.
Beliefs in a nutshell:
- The Ends never justify the Means.
- Objectivity is secondary to subjectivity.
- The War on Drugs is the worst policy in the U.S.
- Most people worship technology as a religion.
- Computers will never become sentient.
R0b1Billion
Posts: 3,733
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1/22/2015 10:40:28 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 1/22/2015 8:33:53 AM, JJ50 wrote:
Jesus was a human, he certainly wasn't 'divine',whatever that word really means. However, if he was around today, instead of long dead, he could well be surprised at how some of his more extreme followers behave. He might well chuck them out of his gang for bringing the faith into disrepute!

Quite correct! Christians use his name and that is about as far as it goes!
Beliefs in a nutshell:
- The Ends never justify the Means.
- Objectivity is secondary to subjectivity.
- The War on Drugs is the worst policy in the U.S.
- Most people worship technology as a religion.
- Computers will never become sentient.
JJ50
Posts: 2,144
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1/22/2015 10:48:47 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 1/22/2015 9:37:24 AM, LifeMeansGodIsGood wrote:
At 1/21/2015 9:22:57 PM, uncung wrote:
Jesus Wouldn't be a Modern-Day Christian
moreover he was a muslim.

Yes, Jesus was a Muslim, and when he comes back to earth, he will correct all the Christians to make them say God's name is Allah and Muhammed is the Man of all men, the prophet of Allah. Then when Jesus get's all of the Christians in one place, the Christians who won't change their minds and say Allah is God and Muhammed is the final prophet who corrected Jesus so he can correct the Christians, Jesus will put a bunch of nukes around his waist and be a martyr for Allah as he blows himself and all the infidel Christians into obliviion, then they all burn in Hell for a little while untill the fire corrects them and they know God's name is Allah and Muhammed is his prophet and then they all get to go to paradise to join the Muslims and Jehovah's withnesses ruling the world.

And you know all that for a fact do you? Jesus might well tell you to stick your nonsense where the sun don't shine if he was around now! Besides which he wasn't a Christian but a Jew. That guy Paul invented Christianity!
ChristianPunk
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1/22/2015 11:07:40 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 1/22/2015 10:37:10 AM, R0b1Billion wrote:
At 1/22/2015 8:27:22 AM, ChristianPunk wrote:

To me, it's best put by CS Lewis.

"I am trying here to prevent anyone saying the really foolish thing that people often say about Him: 'I'm ready to accept Jesus as a great moral teacher, but I don't accept His claim to be God.' That is the one thing we must not say. A man who was merely a man and said the sort of things Jesus said would not be a great moral teacher. He would either be a lunatic -- on a level with the man who says he is a poached egg -- or else he would be the Devil of Hell. You must make your choice. Either this man was, and is, the Son of God: or else a madman or something worse." -- C.S. Lewis, Mere Christianity

If we were to give respect to Jesus, we'd accept him divine.

Ah yes, my daughter's mother converted to Christianity a few years ago. She's not a good moral person in any respect, but she is ready to call herself a Christian and accept the metaphysical aspects. She gave me this Mere Christianity book to read, and I got a chapter or two in and stopped reading because I could tell his faith was not strong. He's just like my daughter's mother: ready to accept divinity, but not able to walk the path Jesus actually says to walk. He wants to advertise himself as standing with Jesus so that all will see him as such, but quick to make excuses about why Jesus's actual message is not that important.

I now see that most Christians follow suit with Lewis, many of them don't even bother reading the New Testament. They may choose to go to church or follow one or two popular Christian talking points (e.g., voting pro-life), but Christians are primarily concerned simply with broadcasting to the world that they "believe." It is a show of vanity outwardly, and inwardly it helps ease their insecurity about not being on the right side of the fence when they die so they can assure entry to the luxuries of Heaven. That is Christianity, and I am through indulging Christians who have such selfish motivations... From here on in I am going to throw their hypocrisy back into their faces at every opportunity, and just as Jesus exposed the hypocrisy of the popular piety of the day, I am going to expose how fake and un-Christ-like Christians are.

What does it mean to be a Christian or Christ-Like?

With regards to Christ's teachings in the New Testament, what is your opinion on the teachings prescribed in the epistles from the apostles? Are they as equal to moral teachings as Jesus?

I know CS Lewis wasn't perfect. He admitted he doubted. Especially because of the topic of Pain and Suffering. Doubt is what strengthens faith in the end. It proves faith is faith. Lewis never claims to be a saint or any perfection. Because nobody is and that was the main reason I converted. I used to think being a Christian was being perfect and if nobody was perfect or thought like me, I'd shove them away and pray for their death. But I realized that was the wrong message when I actually learned what the sacrifice of Christ was all about. It read to me as literal and metaphorical, because of one of Christ's teachings was "Greater is no love than this, whoever lays their life down for their friends." So I consider Jesus was practicing his teaching here. And the reason for it was so we wouldn't be bound to our desires of sin. We could freely choose our own path without being entranced.
Harikrish
Posts: 11,011
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1/22/2015 12:28:04 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 1/22/2015 10:37:10 AM, R0b1Billion wrote:
At 1/22/2015 8:27:22 AM, ChristianPunk wrote:

To me, it's best put by CS Lewis.

"I am trying here to prevent anyone saying the really foolish thing that people often say about Him: 'I'm ready to accept Jesus as a great moral teacher, but I don't accept His claim to be God.' That is the one thing we must not say. A man who was merely a man and said the sort of things Jesus said would not be a great moral teacher. He would either be a lunatic -- on a level with the man who says he is a poached egg -- or else he would be the Devil of Hell. You must make your choice. Either this man was, and is, the Son of God: or else a madman or something worse." -- C.S. Lewis, Mere Christianity

If we were to give respect to Jesus, we'd accept him divine.

Ah yes, my daughter's mother converted to Christianity a few years ago. She's not a good moral person in any respect, but she is ready to call herself a Christian and accept the metaphysical aspects. She gave me this Mere Christianity book to read, and I got a chapter or two in and stopped reading because I could tell his faith was not strong. He's just like my daughter's mother: ready to accept divinity, but not able to walk the path Jesus actually says to walk. He wants to advertise himself as standing with Jesus so that all will see him as such, but quick to make excuses about why Jesus's actual message is not that important.

I now see that most Christians follow suit with Lewis, many of them don't even bother reading the New Testament. They may choose to go to church or follow one or two popular Christian talking points (e.g., voting pro-life), but Christians are primarily concerned simply with broadcasting to the world that they "believe." It is a show of vanity outwardly, and inwardly it helps ease their insecurity about not being on the right side of the fence when they die so they can assure entry to the luxuries of Heaven. That is Christianity, and I am through indulging Christians who have such selfish motivations... From here on in I am going to throw their hypocrisy back into their faces at every opportunity, and just as Jesus exposed the hypocrisy of the popular piety of the day, I am going to expose how fake and un-Christ-like Christians are.

Why would you want to shame 2 billion Christians who have already admitted to their sinful nature , who suffer from low self esteem and feel dirty and guilty inside. They gather with other miserable people weekly to ask for forgiveness from a wooden cross.
Therapy costs money. To get relief by simply accepting a dead mans promise of total amnesia is relatively cheaper and hence the appeal. The hypocrisy is claiming they are cured and not from seeking help from a wooden cross.
R0b1Billion
Posts: 3,733
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1/22/2015 1:48:27 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 1/22/2015 11:07:40 AM, ChristianPunk wrote:

What does it mean to be a Christian or Christ-Like?

Christians believe Jesus was a demigod. Christ-like is the state of listening to the intentions of Jesus and trying to carry them out. I have found the two are not often-enough intertwined.

With regards to Christ's teachings in the New Testament, what is your opinion on the teachings prescribed in the epistles from the apostles? Are they as equal to moral teachings as Jesus?

No. Jesus had a special wisdom that I have not found anywhere else, and the rest of the Bible doesn't achieve the same standard as Jesus's parables. I do like certain parts however, most notably the stories of Job and Cain and Abel. These are excellent moral lessons.

I know CS Lewis wasn't perfect. He admitted he doubted. Especially because of the topic of Pain and Suffering. Doubt is what strengthens faith in the end. It proves faith is faith. Lewis never claims to be a saint or any perfection. Because nobody is and that was the main reason I converted. I used to think being a Christian was being perfect and if nobody was perfect or thought like me, I'd shove them away and pray for their death. But I realized that was the wrong message when I actually learned what the sacrifice of Christ was all about. It read to me as literal and metaphorical, because of one of Christ's teachings was "Greater is no love than this, whoever lays their life down for their friends." So I consider Jesus was practicing his teaching here. And the reason for it was so we wouldn't be bound to our desires of sin. We could freely choose our own path without being entranced.

I find Lewis's insistence on divinity distasteful. I have no doubt he's a good person, but if he were in front of me we would have some disagreements to work out. Jesus wasn't perfect, there's at least one lesson of his I disagree with: his idea that marrying a divorced woman is adultery. People make mistakes, particularly when they are younger, and to shun somebody forever because they made a wedding vow at a young age to me seems unreasonable. Perhaps his meaning remains hidden from me, or perhaps he didn't even say that at all. Perhaps Jesus and Socrates alike are nothing but mouth-pieces for great men who used them to espouse great ideas. Insisting on authenticity is a waste of time and detracts from the greater moral journey.
Beliefs in a nutshell:
- The Ends never justify the Means.
- Objectivity is secondary to subjectivity.
- The War on Drugs is the worst policy in the U.S.
- Most people worship technology as a religion.
- Computers will never become sentient.
R0b1Billion
Posts: 3,733
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1/22/2015 1:50:48 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 1/22/2015 12:28:04 PM, Harikrish wrote:

Why would you want to shame 2 billion Christians who have already admitted to their sinful nature , who suffer from low self esteem and feel dirty and guilty inside. They gather with other miserable people weekly to ask for forgiveness from a wooden cross.

Therapy costs money. To get relief by simply accepting a dead mans promise of total amnesia is relatively cheaper and hence the appeal. The hypocrisy is claiming they are cured and not from seeking help from a wooden cross.

What good is repressing guilt when they should be actually trying to be better people?

Feed a man vs. teach him to fish
Beliefs in a nutshell:
- The Ends never justify the Means.
- Objectivity is secondary to subjectivity.
- The War on Drugs is the worst policy in the U.S.
- Most people worship technology as a religion.
- Computers will never become sentient.
Harikrish
Posts: 11,011
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1/22/2015 1:56:12 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 1/22/2015 1:48:27 PM, R0b1Billion wrote:
At 1/22/2015 11:07:40 AM, ChristianPunk wrote:

What does it mean to be a Christian or Christ-Like?

Christians believe Jesus was a demigod. Christ-like is the state of listening to the intentions of Jesus and trying to carry them out. I have found the two are not often-enough intertwined.

With regards to Christ's teachings in the New Testament, what is your opinion on the teachings prescribed in the epistles from the apostles? Are they as equal to moral teachings as Jesus?

No. Jesus had a special wisdom that I have not found anywhere else, and the rest of the Bible doesn't achieve the same standard as Jesus's parables. I do like certain parts however, most notably the stories of Job and Cain and Abel. These are excellent moral lessons.

I know CS Lewis wasn't perfect. He admitted he doubted. Especially because of the topic of Pain and Suffering. Doubt is what strengthens faith in the end. It proves faith is faith. Lewis never claims to be a saint or any perfection. Because nobody is and that was the main reason I converted. I used to think being a Christian was being perfect and if nobody was perfect or thought like me, I'd shove them away and pray for their death. But I realized that was the wrong message when I actually learned what the sacrifice of Christ was all about. It read to me as literal and metaphorical, because of one of Christ's teachings was "Greater is no love than this, whoever lays their life down for their friends." So I consider Jesus was practicing his teaching here. And the reason for it was so we wouldn't be bound to our desires of sin. We could freely choose our own path without being entranced.

I find Lewis's insistence on divinity distasteful. I have no doubt he's a good person, but if he were in front of me we would have some disagreements to work out. Jesus wasn't perfect, there's at least one lesson of his I disagree with: his idea that marrying a divorced woman is adultery. People make mistakes, particularly when they are younger, and to shun somebody forever because they made a wedding vow at a young age to me seems unreasonable. Perhaps his meaning remains hidden from me, or perhaps he didn't even say that at all. Perhaps Jesus and Socrates alike are nothing but mouth-pieces for great men who used them to espouse great ideas. Insisting on authenticity is a waste of time and detracts from the greater moral journey.

He does raise the possibility Jesus was all three liar, lunatic and Lord a trilemma very much like the trinity was a triune.
R0b1Billion
Posts: 3,733
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1/22/2015 2:03:34 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 1/22/2015 1:56:12 PM, Harikrish wrote:

He does raise the possibility Jesus was all three liar, lunatic and Lord a trilemma very much like the trinity was a triune.

So we have ourselves a matrix here... Jesus was or wasn't divine, and was or wasn't teaching moral truths. I'll go with wasn't divine, was teaching moral truths.
Beliefs in a nutshell:
- The Ends never justify the Means.
- Objectivity is secondary to subjectivity.
- The War on Drugs is the worst policy in the U.S.
- Most people worship technology as a religion.
- Computers will never become sentient.
Harikrish
Posts: 11,011
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1/22/2015 2:09:51 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 1/22/2015 2:03:34 PM, R0b1Billion wrote:
At 1/22/2015 1:56:12 PM, Harikrish wrote:

He does raise the possibility Jesus was all three liar, lunatic and Lord a trilemma very much like the trinity was a triune.

So we have ourselves a matrix here... Jesus was or wasn't divine, and was or wasn't teaching moral truths. I'll go with wasn't divine, was teaching moral truths.

You might want to reconsider even the moral truths. What is so moral about creating hatred and division in families.

Matthew 10:35 For I have come to turn " 'a man against his father, a daughter against her mother, a daughter-in-law against her mother-in-law--
36 a man's enemies will be the members of his own household.'
37 "Anyone who loves his father or mother more than me is not worthy of me; anyone who loves his son or daughter more than me is not worthy of me;