Total Posts:97|Showing Posts:1-30|Last Page
Jump to topic:

**Best argument for the Existence of God**

Blade-of-Truth
Posts: 5,035
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
1/23/2015 2:56:55 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
What is it?

I've heard of several such as...

The Cosmological Argument from Contingency

The Kalam Cosmological Argument

The Moral Argument Based upon Moral Values and Duties

The Teleological Argument from Fine-tuning

The Ontological Argument from the Possibility of God's Existence to His Actuality

---------------------

... and I just don't have the time to really delve into each of them myself due to my current studies. I'm hoping that some people might know more than myself regarding each of these arguments and could let me know which is the strongest.

Thanks in advance!
Debate.org Deputy Vote Moderator
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
DDO Voting Guide: http://www.debate.org...
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Need a judge on your debate? Nominate me! http://www.debate.org...
uncung
Posts: 3,453
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
1/23/2015 4:07:41 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 1/23/2015 2:56:55 AM, Blade-of-Truth wrote:
What is it?

... and I just don't have the time to really delve into each of them myself due to my current studies. I'm hoping that some people might know more than myself regarding each of these arguments and could let me know which is the strongest.

Thanks in advance!

the best argument is:
God created the big bang, period.
wsmunit7
Posts: 1,318
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
1/23/2015 6:06:54 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 1/23/2015 2:56:55 AM, Blade-of-Truth wrote:
What is it?

I've heard of several such as...

The Cosmological Argument from Contingency

The Kalam Cosmological Argument

The Moral Argument Based upon Moral Values and Duties

The Teleological Argument from Fine-tuning

The Ontological Argument from the Possibility of God's Existence to His Actuality

---------------------

... and I just don't have the time to really delve into each of them myself due to my current studies. I'm hoping that some people might know more than myself regarding each of these arguments and could let me know which is the strongest.

Thanks in advance!

I will agree that those are "arguments ". But "arguments" are not "evidence".
Geneaux
Posts: 48
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
1/23/2015 7:49:52 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 1/23/2015 6:06:54 AM, wsmunit7 wrote:
At 1/23/2015 2:56:55 AM, Blade-of-Truth wrote:
What is it?

I've heard of several such as...

The Cosmological Argument from Contingency

The Kalam Cosmological Argument

The Moral Argument Based upon Moral Values and Duties

The Teleological Argument from Fine-tuning

The Ontological Argument from the Possibility of God's Existence to His Actuality

---------------------

... and I just don't have the time to really delve into each of them myself due to my current studies. I'm hoping that some people might know more than myself regarding each of these arguments and could let me know which is the strongest.

Thanks in advance!

I will agree that those are "arguments ". But "arguments" are not "evidence".

Arguments are evidence if they follow the rules of logic and have evidence backing their premises. Which these arguments have in both counts. If you look for direct physical evidence for God you will have trouble because God is a metaphysical being.
MyDinosaurHands
Posts: 203
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
1/23/2015 8:31:24 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 1/23/2015 4:07:41 AM, uncung wrote:
At 1/23/2015 2:56:55 AM, Blade-of-Truth wrote:
What is it?

... and I just don't have the time to really delve into each of them myself due to my current studies. I'm hoping that some people might know more than myself regarding each of these arguments and could let me know which is the strongest.

Thanks in advance!

the best argument is:
God created the big bang, period.

What if the Universe had been ebbing and flowing between Big Bangs and Big Crunches for all eternity?

What if the Big Bang just happened?

What if God became the singularity and killed himself with the Big Bang, and we're all products of his corpse?
Guess what I used to type this..

Careful! Don't laugh too hard.
Benshapiro
Posts: 3,966
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
1/23/2015 8:43:05 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
Actually the transcendental argument for God's existence is probably the strongest because it's deductively valid but it isn't listed there.
SNP1
Posts: 2,403
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
1/23/2015 8:47:49 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
The Cosmological Argument from Contingency

I see no reason to believe that everything that exists contingently has a reason for existing. I also fail to see how one can make the jump to that reason being god.

The Kalam Cosmological Argument

Presupposes the A-Theory of Time, does not work under the B-Theory of Time.

The Moral Argument Based upon Moral Values and Duties

I do not see any reason why objective morality requires a god. I do not see any evidence for objective morality.

The Teleological Argument from Fine-tuning

I once made a thread where Martymer on YouTube showed how this argument supports naturalism.

The Ontological Argument from the Possibility of God's Existence to His Actuality

http://www.jstor.org...
#TheApatheticNihilistPartyofAmerica
#WarOnDDO
GamrDeb8rBbrH8r
Posts: 341
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
1/23/2015 8:53:27 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
The best argument for God is:

data:image/jpeg;base64,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
"There's no diversity because we're burning in the melting pot."

-Immortal Technique

Rap battle VS Truth_Seeker: http://www.debate.org...
popculturepooka
Posts: 7,924
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
1/23/2015 9:24:18 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 1/23/2015 2:56:55 AM, Blade-of-Truth wrote:
What is it?

I've heard of several such as...

The Cosmological Argument from Contingency

The Kalam Cosmological Argument

The Moral Argument Based upon Moral Values and Duties

The Teleological Argument from Fine-tuning

The Ontological Argument from the Possibility of God's Existence to His Actuality

---------------------

... and I just don't have the time to really delve into each of them myself due to my current studies. I'm hoping that some people might know more than myself regarding each of these arguments and could let me know which is the strongest.

Thanks in advance!

IMO out of those listed, contingency, moral values, and fine tuning are the strongest.
At 10/3/2016 11:49:13 PM, thett3 wrote:
BLACK LIVES MATTER!
wsmunit7
Posts: 1,318
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
1/23/2015 9:25:42 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 1/23/2015 7:49:52 AM, Geneaux wrote:
At 1/23/2015 6:06:54 AM, wsmunit7 wrote:
At 1/23/2015 2:56:55 AM, Blade-of-Truth wrote:
What is it?

I've heard of several 4such as...

The Cosmological Argument from Contingency

The Kalam Cosmological Argument

The Moral Argument Based upon Moral Values and Duties

The Teleological Argument from Fine-tuning

The Ontological Argument from the Possibility of God's Existence to His Actuality

---------------------

... and I just don't have the time to really delve into each of them myself due to my current studies. I'm hoping that some people might know more than myself regarding each of these arguments and could let me know which is the strongest.

Thanks in advance!

I will agree that those are "arguments ". But "arguments" are not "evidence".

Arguments are evidence if they follow the rules of logic and have evidence backing their premises. Which these arguments have in both counts. If you look for direct physical evidence for God you will have trouble because God is a metaphysical being.

Any evidence any of these arguments may have is circumstantial at best.

Sorry, but I can't believe in metaphysics or metaphysical beings. There is simply no rational explanation for metaphysics. I'll stick with evidential physics.
SNP1
Posts: 2,403
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
1/23/2015 9:55:13 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 1/23/2015 8:43:05 AM, Benshapiro wrote:
Actually the transcendental argument for God's existence is probably the strongest because it's deductively valid but it isn't listed there.

I have never seen anything close to good support for the first premise though. Why can't knowledge exist without a god?
#TheApatheticNihilistPartyofAmerica
#WarOnDDO
Benshapiro
Posts: 3,966
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
1/23/2015 9:58:13 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 1/23/2015 9:55:13 AM, SNP1 wrote:
At 1/23/2015 8:43:05 AM, Benshapiro wrote:
Actually the transcendental argument for God's existence is probably the strongest because it's deductively valid but it isn't listed there.

I have never seen anything close to good support for the first premise though. Why can't knowledge exist without a god?

Because knowledge entails objective truth. How can objective truth exist if everything we know to be true emerged from absolute nothingness?
popculturepooka
Posts: 7,924
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
1/23/2015 9:59:38 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 1/23/2015 9:25:42 AM, wsmunit7 wrote:
At 1/23/2015 7:49:52 AM, Geneaux wrote:
At 1/23/2015 6:06:54 AM, wsmunit7 wrote:
At 1/23/2015 2:56:55 AM, Blade-of-Truth wrote:
What is it?

I've heard of several 4such as...

The Cosmological Argument from Contingency

The Kalam Cosmological Argument

The Moral Argument Based upon Moral Values and Duties

The Teleological Argument from Fine-tuning

The Ontological Argument from the Possibility of God's Existence to His Actuality

---------------------

... and I just don't have the time to really delve into each of them myself due to my current studies. I'm hoping that some people might know more than myself regarding each of these arguments and could let me know which is the strongest.

Thanks in advance!

I will agree that those are "arguments ". But "arguments" are not "evidence".

Arguments are evidence if they follow the rules of logic and have evidence backing their premises. Which these arguments have in both counts. If you look for direct physical evidence for God you will have trouble because God is a metaphysical being.

Any evidence any of these arguments may have is circumstantial at best.

Sorry, but I can't believe in metaphysics or metaphysical beings. There is simply no rational explanation for metaphysics. I'll stick with evidential physics.

I have a feeling you're not properly understanding what 'metaphysics' is. It is unadvoidable. Everyone has metaphysical theses they are committed to whether they know it or not. It is anything do with ontology - or how the world "really" is. For example if you believe that the world is made up only things that physics describes that is a METAPHYSICAL position (i.e. physicalism).
At 10/3/2016 11:49:13 PM, thett3 wrote:
BLACK LIVES MATTER!
Harikrish
Posts: 11,009
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
1/23/2015 10:04:20 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 1/23/2015 2:56:55 AM, Blade-of-Truth wrote:
What is it?

I've heard of several such as...

The Cosmological Argument from Contingency

The Kalam Cosmological Argument

The Moral Argument Based upon Moral Values and Duties

The Teleological Argument from Fine-tuning

The Ontological Argument from the Possibility of God's Existence to His Actuality

---------------------

... and I just don't have the time to really delve into each of them myself due to my current studies. I'm hoping that some people might know more than myself regarding each of these arguments and could let me know which is the strongest.

Thanks in advance!

They are all philosophical arguments based on artificial constructs and false premises.
What we do know is our planet is about 4 billion years old. Humans came around 200,000 years. The God of the bible was created about 4000 years ago. So the universe, world existed before God. We created God much much later and retroactively moved God to the beginning of creation.
Rather than asking what was the reason God created the world which we retroactively attributed to him. We should be asking what was the reason we created God through philosophical speculation. It was out of ignorance of the world we lived in.

Should the arguments for the existence of God continue? There is no good reason to continue with superfluous metaphysical philosophical speculations because science has made the practice archaic and counter-productive.

Read article:

Modern science has made astounding progress in our understanding of ourselves and the universe. Physics, neuroscience, and psychology now tackle questions that a few decades ago could only be explored through philosophical speculation. So some vocal members of the scientific community, and even members of the general public, have suggested that philosophy itself has become a superfluous, archaic practice. Is philosophy useful and applicable today? Or has it been reduced to a dissociated game of mental aerobics, a mere ping-pong game of arguments and counter-arguments? - See more at: http://philosophytalk.org...
SNP1
Posts: 2,403
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
1/23/2015 10:24:08 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 1/23/2015 9:58:13 AM, Benshapiro wrote:
At 1/23/2015 9:55:13 AM, SNP1 wrote:
At 1/23/2015 8:43:05 AM, Benshapiro wrote:
Actually the transcendental argument for God's existence is probably the strongest because it's deductively valid but it isn't listed there.

I have never seen anything close to good support for the first premise though. Why can't knowledge exist without a god?

Because knowledge entails objective truth. How can objective truth exist if everything we know to be true emerged from absolute nothingness?

One of a few arguments I have heard...

Because of logic.

A=A is an objective truth that is true due to the law of identity.

Married Bachelors are impossible because of the law of non-contradiction.

If logic exists, truth statements can exist. If you say that logic can only exist if there is a god, then you are saying that god is not bound by the laws of logic. If god is not bound by the laws of logic, god is illogical and incoherent.
#TheApatheticNihilistPartyofAmerica
#WarOnDDO
Benshapiro
Posts: 3,966
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
1/23/2015 10:31:28 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 1/23/2015 10:24:08 AM, SNP1 wrote:
At 1/23/2015 9:58:13 AM, Benshapiro wrote:
At 1/23/2015 9:55:13 AM, SNP1 wrote:
At 1/23/2015 8:43:05 AM, Benshapiro wrote:
Actually the transcendental argument for God's existence is probably the strongest because it's deductively valid but it isn't listed there.

I have never seen anything close to good support for the first premise though. Why can't knowledge exist without a god?

Because knowledge entails objective truth. How can objective truth exist if everything we know to be true emerged from absolute nothingness?

One of a few arguments I have heard...

Because of logic.

A=A is an objective truth that is true due to the law of identity.

Married Bachelors are impossible because of the law of non-contradiction.

If logic exists, truth statements can exist. If you say that logic can only exist if there is a god, then you are saying that god is not bound by the laws of logic. If god is not bound by the laws of logic, god is illogical and incoherent.

I'm questioning the soundness of logic. If logic isn't grounded in objective truth, how can laws of logic be objectively true? Or are you arguing that laws of logic *are* objectively true?

I'm saying that laws of logic would be a reflection of God's mind, and that God cannot be unbound by these laws.
Envisage
Posts: 3,646
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
1/23/2015 10:34:40 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 1/23/2015 2:56:55 AM, Blade-of-Truth wrote:
What is it?

I've heard of several such as...

The Cosmological Argument from Contingency

The Kalam Cosmological Argument

The Moral Argument Based upon Moral Values and Duties

The Teleological Argument from Fine-tuning

The Ontological Argument from the Possibility of God's Existence to His Actuality

---------------------

... and I just don't have the time to really delve into each of them myself due to my current studies. I'm hoping that some people might know more than myself regarding each of these arguments and could let me know which is the strongest.

Thanks in advance!

Depends on the definition of God...

By some definitions God, I would be a theist. For example "God is the laws of nature", or something akin to Einstein's God I would be classified as a theist in.

Given there is virtually infinite flexibility in what a God is, with some definitions of God having zero overlapping features with another God, it's impossible to say.

The only ones that make it out of the starting blocks are ones that entail pantheism, or berkeley's idealism, etc.
SNP1
Posts: 2,403
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
1/23/2015 10:41:25 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 1/23/2015 10:31:28 AM, Benshapiro wrote:
At 1/23/2015 10:24:08 AM, SNP1 wrote:
At 1/23/2015 9:58:13 AM, Benshapiro wrote:
At 1/23/2015 9:55:13 AM, SNP1 wrote:
At 1/23/2015 8:43:05 AM, Benshapiro wrote:
Actually the transcendental argument for God's existence is probably the strongest because it's deductively valid but it isn't listed there.

I have never seen anything close to good support for the first premise though. Why can't knowledge exist without a god?

Because knowledge entails objective truth. How can objective truth exist if everything we know to be true emerged from absolute nothingness?

One of a few arguments I have heard...

Because of logic.

A=A is an objective truth that is true due to the law of identity.

Married Bachelors are impossible because of the law of non-contradiction.

If logic exists, truth statements can exist. If you say that logic can only exist if there is a god, then you are saying that god is not bound by the laws of logic. If god is not bound by the laws of logic, god is illogical and incoherent.

I'm questioning the soundness of logic. If logic isn't grounded in objective truth, how can laws of logic be objectively true? Or are you arguing that laws of logic *are* objectively true?

If I remember the argument correctly (been a while since I talked about this topic), the argument is that objective truth and the laws of logic are interchangeable. Something cannot be objectively true if it does not follow the laws of logic, the laws of logic do not work unless objectively true, and so the problem was fixed by making them one concept.

I'm saying that laws of logic would be a reflection of God's mind, and that God cannot be unbound by these laws.
#TheApatheticNihilistPartyofAmerica
#WarOnDDO
Benshapiro
Posts: 3,966
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
1/23/2015 10:46:56 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 1/23/2015 10:41:25 AM, SNP1 wrote:
At 1/23/2015 10:31:28 AM, Benshapiro wrote:
At 1/23/2015 10:24:08 AM, SNP1 wrote:
At 1/23/2015 9:58:13 AM, Benshapiro wrote:
At 1/23/2015 9:55:13 AM, SNP1 wrote:
At 1/23/2015 8:43:05 AM, Benshapiro wrote:
Actually the transcendental argument for God's existence is probably the strongest because it's deductively valid but it isn't listed there.

I have never seen anything close to good support for the first premise though. Why can't knowledge exist without a god?

Because knowledge entails objective truth. How can objective truth exist if everything we know to be true emerged from absolute nothingness?

One of a few arguments I have heard...

Because of logic.

A=A is an objective truth that is true due to the law of identity.

Married Bachelors are impossible because of the law of non-contradiction.

If logic exists, truth statements can exist. If you say that logic can only exist if there is a god, then you are saying that god is not bound by the laws of logic. If god is not bound by the laws of logic, god is illogical and incoherent.

I'm questioning the soundness of logic. If logic isn't grounded in objective truth, how can laws of logic be objectively true? Or are you arguing that laws of logic *are* objectively true?

If I remember the argument correctly (been a while since I talked about this topic), the argument is that objective truth and the laws of logic are interchangeable. Something cannot be objectively true if it does not follow the laws of logic, the laws of logic do not work unless objectively true, and so the problem was fixed by making them one concept.

Huh? How does either exist if "objective truth" or "laws of logic" are emergent? (Non-objective)?

I'm saying that laws of logic would be a reflection of God's mind, and that God cannot be unbound by these laws.
SNP1
Posts: 2,403
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
1/23/2015 10:58:49 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 1/23/2015 10:46:56 AM, Benshapiro wrote:
Huh? How does either exist if "objective truth" or "laws of logic" are emergent? (Non-objective)?

Can we discuss this another time? This is a conversation that will distract me from the debate I just started.
#TheApatheticNihilistPartyofAmerica
#WarOnDDO
wsmunit7
Posts: 1,318
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
1/23/2015 11:10:09 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 1/23/2015 10:31:28 AM, Benshapiro wrote:
At 1/23/2015 10:24:08 AM, SNP1 wrote:
At 1/23/2015 9:58:13 AM, Benshapiro wrote:
At 1/23/2015 9:55:13 AM, SNP1 wrote:
At 1/23/2015 8:43:05 AM, Benshapiro wrote:
Actually the transcendental argument for God's existence is probably the strongest because it's deductively valid but it isn't listed there.

I have never seen anything close to good support for the first premise though. Why can't knowledge exist without a god?

Because knowledge entails objective truth. How can objective truth exist if everything we know to be true emerged from absolute nothingness?

One of a few arguments I have heard...

Because of logic.

A=A is an objective truth that is true due to the law of identity.

Married Bachelors are impossible because of the law of non-contradiction.

If logic exists, truth statements can exist. If you say that logic can only exist if there is a god, then you are saying that god is not bound by the laws of logic. If god is not bound by the laws of logic, god is illogical and incoherent.

I'm questioning the soundness of logic. If logic isn't grounded in objective truth, how can laws of logic be objectively true? Or are you arguing that laws of logic *are* objectively true?

I'm saying that laws of logic would be a reflection of God's mind, and that God cannot be unbound by these laws.

Objective Truth :
http://fallibleideas.com...
Benshapiro
Posts: 3,966
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
1/23/2015 11:27:32 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 1/23/2015 10:58:49 AM, SNP1 wrote:
At 1/23/2015 10:46:56 AM, Benshapiro wrote:
Huh? How does either exist if "objective truth" or "laws of logic" are emergent? (Non-objective)?

Can we discuss this another time? This is a conversation that will distract me from the debate I just started.

Alright, but be sure to get back to me on this.
Harikrish
Posts: 11,009
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
1/23/2015 12:49:18 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
Objective morality according to William Lane Craig assumes God is good. Therefore only Gods morality is objective.
Here are some examples of Gods objective morality that we have to get comfortable with.

1. God drowns the whole earth.
In Genesis 7:21-23, God drowns the entire population of the earth: men, women, children, fetuses, and perhaps unicorns. Only a single family survives. In Matthew 24:37-42, gentle Jesus approves of this genocide and plans to repeat it when he returns.
2. God kills half a million people.
In 2 Chronicles 13:15-18, God helps the men of Judah kill 500,000 of their fellow Israelites.
3. God slaughters all Egyptian firstborn.
In Exodus 12:29, God the baby-killer slaughters all Egyptian firstborn children and cattle because their king was stubborn.
4. God kills 14,000 people for complaining that God keeps killing them.
In Numbers 16:41-49, the Israelites complain that God is killing too many of them. So, God sends a plague that kills 14,000 more of them.
5. Genocide after genocide after genocide.
In Joshua 6:20-21, God helps the Israelites destroy Jericho, killing "men and women, young and old, cattle, sheep and donkeys." In Deuteronomy 2:32-35, God has the Israelites kill everyone in Heshbon, including children. In Deuteronomy 3:3-7, God has the Israelites do the same to the people of Bashan. In Numbers 31:7-18, the Israelites kill all the Midianites except for the virgins, whom they take as spoils of war. In 1 Samuel 15:1-9, God tells the Israelites to kill all the Amalekites " men, women, children, infants, and their cattle " for something the Amalekites" ancestors had done 400 years earlier.
6. God kills 50,000 people for curiosity.
In 1 Samuel 6:19, God kills 50,000 men for peeking into the ark of the covenant. (Newer cosmetic translations count only 70 deaths, but their text notes admit that the best and earliest manuscripts put the number at 50,070.)
7. 3,000 Israelites killed for inventing a god.
In Exodus 32, Moses has climbed Mount Sinai to get the Ten Commandments. The Israelites are bored, so they invent a golden calf god. Moses comes back and God commands him: "Each man strap a sword to his side. Go back and forth through the camp from one end to the other, each killing his brother and friend and neighbor." About 3,000 people died.
8. The Amorites destroyed by sword and by God"s rocks.
In Joshua 10:10-11, God helps the Israelites slaughter the Amorites by sword, then finishes them off with rocks from the sky.
9. God burns two cities to death.
In Genesis 19:24, God kills everyone in Sodom and Gomorrah with fire from the sky. Then God kills Lot"s wife for looking back at her burning home.
10. God has 42 children mauled by bears.
In 2 Kings 2:23-24, some kids tease the prophet Elisha, and God sends bears to dismember them. (Newer cosmetic translations say the bears "maul" the children, but the original Hebrew, baqa, means "to tear apart.")
11. A tribe slaughtered and their virgins raped for not showing up at roll call.
In Judges 21:1-23, a tribe of Israelites misses roll call, so the other Israelites kill them all except for the virgins, which they take for themselves. Still not happy, they hide in vineyards and pounce on dancing women from Shiloh to take them for themselves.
12. 3,000 crushed to death.
In Judges 16:27-30, God gives Samson strength to bring down a building to crush 3,000 members of a rival tribe.
13. A concubine raped and dismembered.
In Judges 19:22-29, a mob demands to rape a godly master"s guest. The master offers his daughter and a concubine to them instead. They take the concubine and gang-rape her all night. The master finds her on his doorstep in the morning, cuts her into 12 pieces, and ships the pieces around the country.
14. Child sacrifice.
In Judges 11:30-39, Jephthah burns his daughter alive as a sacrificial offering for God"s favor in killing the Ammonites.
15. God helps Samson kill 30 men because he lost a bet.
In Judges 14:11-19, Samson loses a bet for 30 sets of clothes. The spirit of God comes upon him and he kills 30 men to steal their clothes and pay off the debt.
16. God demands you kill your wife and children for worshiping other gods.
In Deuteronomy 13:6-10, God commands that you must kill your wife, children, brother, and friend if they worship other gods.
17. God incinerates 51 men to make a point.
In 2 Kings 1:9-10, Elijah gets God to burn 51 men with fire from heaven to prove he is God.
18. God kills a man for not impregnating his brother"s widow.
In Genesis 38:9-10, God kills a man for refusing to impregnate his brother"s widow.
19. God threatens forced cannibalism.
In Leviticus 26:27-29 and Jeremiah 19:9, God threatens to punish the Israelites by making them eat their own children.
20. The coming slaughter.
According to Revelation 9:7-19, God"s got more evil coming. God will make horse-like locusts with human heads and scorpion tails, who torture people for 5 months. Then some angels will kill a third of the earth"s population. If he came today, that would be 2 billion people.
Blade-of-Truth
Posts: 5,035
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
1/23/2015 2:10:17 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 1/23/2015 4:07:41 AM, uncung wrote:
At 1/23/2015 2:56:55 AM, Blade-of-Truth wrote:
What is it?

... and I just don't have the time to really delve into each of them myself due to my current studies. I'm hoping that some people might know more than myself regarding each of these arguments and could let me know which is the strongest.

Thanks in advance!

the best argument is:
God created the big bang, period.

That's too lazy... I'm looking for legit arguments, and most notably the one that is perceived to be the strongest out of the ones I've given.
Debate.org Deputy Vote Moderator
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
DDO Voting Guide: http://www.debate.org...
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Need a judge on your debate? Nominate me! http://www.debate.org...
Blade-of-Truth
Posts: 5,035
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
1/23/2015 2:11:21 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 1/23/2015 6:06:54 AM, wsmunit7 wrote:
At 1/23/2015 2:56:55 AM, Blade-of-Truth wrote:
What is it?

I've heard of several such as...

The Cosmological Argument from Contingency

The Kalam Cosmological Argument

The Moral Argument Based upon Moral Values and Duties

The Teleological Argument from Fine-tuning

The Ontological Argument from the Possibility of God's Existence to His Actuality

---------------------

... and I just don't have the time to really delve into each of them myself due to my current studies. I'm hoping that some people might know more than myself regarding each of these arguments and could let me know which is the strongest.

Thanks in advance!

I will agree that those are "arguments ". But "arguments" are not "evidence".

Good point. I'm not necessarily looking for evidence though, because I know there is none. I'm merely looking for the strongest arguments that don't rely on empirical evidence.
Debate.org Deputy Vote Moderator
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
DDO Voting Guide: http://www.debate.org...
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Need a judge on your debate? Nominate me! http://www.debate.org...
Blade-of-Truth
Posts: 5,035
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
1/23/2015 2:12:54 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 1/23/2015 8:43:05 AM, Benshapiro wrote:
Actually the transcendental argument for God's existence is probably the strongest because it's deductively valid but it isn't listed there.

Can you provide a link to that? Or maybe a basic summary?
Debate.org Deputy Vote Moderator
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
DDO Voting Guide: http://www.debate.org...
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Need a judge on your debate? Nominate me! http://www.debate.org...
Blade-of-Truth
Posts: 5,035
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
1/23/2015 2:18:41 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 1/23/2015 8:47:49 AM, SNP1 wrote:
The Cosmological Argument from Contingency

I see no reason to believe that everything that exists contingently has a reason for existing. I also fail to see how one can make the jump to that reason being god.

Good point, okay, so this isn't the strongest. I'll toss this one aside.

The Kalam Cosmological Argument

Presupposes the A-Theory of Time, does not work under the B-Theory of Time.

This might sound like a noob question, but what is the basic difference between the two theories? I've never heard of them before. Could you maybe provide a link to a solid summary or explanation of these? Also, does it work under the A-theory of Time even though it's presupposed?

The Moral Argument Based upon Moral Values and Duties

I do not see any reason why objective morality requires a god. I do not see any evidence for objective morality.

Okay, good point. I, also, have yet to see any evidence for objective morality. I'll toss this one aside.

The Teleological Argument from Fine-tuning

I once made a thread where Martymer on YouTube showed how this argument supports naturalism.

Can you provide a link? I'd like to learn more about how this supporting naturalism causes it to be a weak or poor argument.

The Ontological Argument from the Possibility of God's Existence to His Actuality

http://www.jstor.org...

Thank you for that link! Okay, I'm tossing this one aside.

*Have you ever heard of the CTMU theory? Any thoughts on that one? I forgot to include it into my original list of possible arguments.
Debate.org Deputy Vote Moderator
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
DDO Voting Guide: http://www.debate.org...
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Need a judge on your debate? Nominate me! http://www.debate.org...
Blade-of-Truth
Posts: 5,035
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
1/23/2015 2:19:12 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 1/23/2015 8:53:27 AM, GamrDeb8rBbrH8r wrote:
The best argument for God is:

Fail
Debate.org Deputy Vote Moderator
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
DDO Voting Guide: http://www.debate.org...
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Need a judge on your debate? Nominate me! http://www.debate.org...
Blade-of-Truth
Posts: 5,035
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
1/23/2015 2:20:49 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 1/23/2015 9:24:18 AM, popculturepooka wrote:
At 1/23/2015 2:56:55 AM, Blade-of-Truth wrote:
What is it?

I've heard of several such as...

The Cosmological Argument from Contingency

The Kalam Cosmological Argument

The Moral Argument Based upon Moral Values and Duties

The Teleological Argument from Fine-tuning

The Ontological Argument from the Possibility of God's Existence to His Actuality

---------------------

... and I just don't have the time to really delve into each of them myself due to my current studies. I'm hoping that some people might know more than myself regarding each of these arguments and could let me know which is the strongest.

Thanks in advance!

IMO out of those listed, contingency, moral values, and fine tuning are the strongest.

Another member has already basically debunked those in a previous comment. This is purely exploratory for me since I don't really know much about any of these. Are there any others that you'd find to be stronger that are not listed?
Debate.org Deputy Vote Moderator
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
DDO Voting Guide: http://www.debate.org...
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Need a judge on your debate? Nominate me! http://www.debate.org...
Harikrish
Posts: 11,009
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
1/23/2015 2:31:57 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 1/23/2015 2:10:17 PM, Blade-of-Truth wrote:
At 1/23/2015 4:07:41 AM, uncung wrote:
At 1/23/2015 2:56:55 AM, Blade-of-Truth wrote:
What is it?

... and I just don't have the time to really delve into each of them myself due to my current studies. I'm hoping that some people might know more than myself regarding each of these arguments and could let me know which is the strongest.

Thanks in advance!

the best argument is:
God created the big bang, period.

That's too lazy... I'm looking for legit arguments, and most notably the one that is perceived to be the strongest out of the ones I've given.

Can you accept 'none' of the above as the answer? Simply on the fact none of the arguments have gone very far even outside this forum discussion. William Lane Craig a great Christian debater has made a mockery of logic and philosophical discourse. To claim one can logically and rationally arrive at the conclusion that God exists without any actual proof or even circumstantial evidence is to maintain a default position which leaves us with a very neutered God. God's influence and presence is so minuscule it is hardly detectable or provable and might as well be non-existent.