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Critique of Unitarian Universalism

GeoLaureate8
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6/24/2010 11:33:05 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
It is time to lay Unitarian Universalism to rest! Reasonable people are being taken in by it's nonsense and meaningless, non-existent doctrines.

I'm surprised rational people actually promote this religion! (Lwerd even said it is the best religion.)

It's a religion that has no tenets, no teachings, yet has a cool sounding name and primary stance of acceptance of all religions.

From BeliefNet.com:

"Belief in Deity
Very diverse beliefs--Unitarian/Universalists welcome all deity beliefs as well as nontheistic beliefs."

WTF is that? God or no God?

"Incarnations
Very diverse beliefs, including belief in no incarnations, or that all are the embodiment of God. Some believe Christ is God's Son, or not Son but "Wayshower."

Again, make up your mind.

"Origin of Universe and Life
Diverse beliefs, but most believe in the Bible as symbolic and that natural processes account for origins. "

Rationalists actually buy that??

"After Death
Diverse beliefs, but most believe that heaven and hell are not places but are symbolic. Some believe heaven and hell are states of consciousness either in life or continuing after death; some believe in reincarnation; some believe that afterlife is nonexistent or not known or not important, as actions in life are all that matter. "

So there's a heaven and hell; oh wait, I mean reincarnation; um, actually, nevermind, it's not important. ROFL!

"Salvation
Some believe in salvation through faith in God and Jesus Christ, along with doing good works and doing no harm to others. Many believe all will be saved, as God is good and forgiving. Some believe in reincarnation and the necessity to eliminate personal greed or to learn all of life's lessons before achieving enlightenment or salvation. For some, the concepts of salvation or enlightenment are irrelevant or disbelieved. "

Um, really? Now I am especially surprised that rationalists accept and promote this religion, or melting pot of religions.

Really, it refutes itself. No more needs to be said.
"We must raise the standard of the Old, free, decentralized, and strictly limited Republic."
-- Murray Rothbard

"The worst thing that can happen to a good cause is, not to be skillfully attacked, but to be ineptly defended."
-- Frederic Bastiat
FREEDO
Posts: 21,057
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6/24/2010 11:36:13 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 6/24/2010 11:33:05 PM, GeoLaureate8 wrote:
It is time to lay Unitarian Universalism to rest! Reasonable people are being taken in by it's nonsense and meaningless, non-existent doctrines.


LMAO.

And lizard people controlling the world is peeeerfectly reasonable...
GRAND POOBAH OF DDO

fnord
Strikeeagle84015
Posts: 867
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6/24/2010 11:36:29 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
I believe that the reason for this religion is because it gives people the comfort and idea of a god however it doesn't require anything of them

so when they are thinking and pondering about the mysteries of life they are given the comfort of heaven
but when they are doing something they know to be wrong they basically change their god to one who does not punish sins
: At 8/17/2010 7:17:56 AM, I-am-a-panda wrote:
: Hey dawg, i herd you like evangelical trolls so we put a bible thumper in yo bible thumper so you can troll while you troll!

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FREEDO
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6/24/2010 11:38:20 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
UU has no doctrines, yes, but that's the point. It's shaped around people building their own personal religion. It denies religious dogma.
GRAND POOBAH OF DDO

fnord
FREEDO
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6/24/2010 11:39:11 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 6/24/2010 11:38:20 PM, FREEDO wrote:
UU has no doctrines, yes, but that's the point. It's shaped around people building their own personal religion. It denies religious dogma.

There's no such thing as a free-thinking religion, but this is it if there ever was one.
GRAND POOBAH OF DDO

fnord
GeoLaureate8
Posts: 12,252
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6/24/2010 11:40:51 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 6/24/2010 11:39:11 PM, FREEDO wrote:
At 6/24/2010 11:38:20 PM, FREEDO wrote:
UU has no doctrines, yes, but that's the point. It's shaped around people building their own personal religion. It denies religious dogma.

There's no such thing as a free-thinking religion, but this is it if there ever was one.

Uh, Secular Humanism?

Unitarian Universalism does have a limited spectrum of beliefs, it's not an "anything goes" religion. It's just a very confused religion.
"We must raise the standard of the Old, free, decentralized, and strictly limited Republic."
-- Murray Rothbard

"The worst thing that can happen to a good cause is, not to be skillfully attacked, but to be ineptly defended."
-- Frederic Bastiat
Cerebral_Narcissist
Posts: 10,806
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6/24/2010 11:42:59 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
I am with you, it utterly sucks.

Still at least its unlikely to spawn sucide bombers.
I am voting for Innomen because of his intelligence, common sense, humility and the fact that Juggle appears to listen to him. Any other Presidential style would have a large sub-section of the site up in arms. If I was President I would destroy the site though elitism, others would let it run riot. Innomen represents a middle way that works, neither draconian nor anarchic and that is the only way things can work. Plus he does it all without ego trips.
FREEDO
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6/24/2010 11:45:43 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 6/24/2010 11:40:51 PM, GeoLaureate8 wrote:
At 6/24/2010 11:39:11 PM, FREEDO wrote:
At 6/24/2010 11:38:20 PM, FREEDO wrote:
UU has no doctrines, yes, but that's the point. It's shaped around people building their own personal religion. It denies religious dogma.

There's no such thing as a free-thinking religion, but this is it if there ever was one.

Uh, Secular Humanism?

Seriously? That's not a religion. It's a philosophy. C'mon man.
GRAND POOBAH OF DDO

fnord
GeoLaureate8
Posts: 12,252
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6/24/2010 11:48:23 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 6/24/2010 11:39:11 PM, FREEDO wrote:
At 6/24/2010 11:38:20 PM, FREEDO wrote:
UU has no doctrines, yes, but that's the point. It's shaped around people building their own personal religion. It denies religious dogma.

There's no such thing as a free-thinking religion, but this is it if there ever was one.

According to Wiki, it is rooted in Christianity and monotheism. This is probably why the Bible and other Christian tenets are mentioned so much in the list of beliefs. However, it's just less strict and a bit looser on what to accept.

If you don't like Christianity, I don't see how a person could like UU. It's almost like Liberal Christianity!!

http://en.wikipedia.org...
"We must raise the standard of the Old, free, decentralized, and strictly limited Republic."
-- Murray Rothbard

"The worst thing that can happen to a good cause is, not to be skillfully attacked, but to be ineptly defended."
-- Frederic Bastiat
GeoLaureate8
Posts: 12,252
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6/24/2010 11:52:37 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 6/24/2010 11:45:43 PM, FREEDO wrote:
At 6/24/2010 11:40:51 PM, GeoLaureate8 wrote:
Uh, Secular Humanism?

Seriously? That's not a religion. It's a philosophy. C'mon man.

Not really. (Also, I could, and many do, say Buddhism is a philosophy and not a religion. But things can be considered a religion if it's something to live life by, provides a moral code, and philosophy of existence.)

"Secular Humanism is a life stance that focuses on the way human beings can lead good, happy and functional lives." - http://en.wikipedia.org...

http://www.beliefnet.com...
"We must raise the standard of the Old, free, decentralized, and strictly limited Republic."
-- Murray Rothbard

"The worst thing that can happen to a good cause is, not to be skillfully attacked, but to be ineptly defended."
-- Frederic Bastiat
Puck
Posts: 6,457
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6/25/2010 1:01:00 AM
Posted: 6 years ago
Secular Humanism isn't a philosophy. You may have more common methods for approaching it than others though.

UU is basically a community driven fellowship for people to say they go to church without having to worry about the doctrinal specifics of inter faith/denomination arguing. Tends to be very relaxed.
Puck
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6/25/2010 1:02:47 AM
Posted: 6 years ago
And the reason, Geo, it comes across as so wtf is because the purpose is not to have a strict guideline of what is right, but the company of others who are usually fed up with more traditional forms of worship but still want that communal aspect.
innomen
Posts: 10,052
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6/25/2010 1:40:49 AM
Posted: 6 years ago
I have been to a couple UU services and find them...lacking. The "sermons" were wishy washy, unfocused, feel good, presentations that a fifth grader may enjoy. Where i live the pretentious elite attend UU services, all as white as rice and unblemished by the hoy polloy. They are very self deprecating of their "religion" and are clear to distinguish themselves from other religions. I found the whole thing to be a waste of time.
GeoLaureate8
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6/25/2010 2:07:21 AM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 6/25/2010 1:02:47 AM, Puck wrote:
And the reason, Geo, it comes across as so wtf is because the purpose is not to have a strict guideline of what is right, but the company of others who are usually fed up with more traditional forms of worship but still want that communal aspect.

It fails at being a religion and fails at being a philosophy. It succeeds as a social commune.
"We must raise the standard of the Old, free, decentralized, and strictly limited Republic."
-- Murray Rothbard

"The worst thing that can happen to a good cause is, not to be skillfully attacked, but to be ineptly defended."
-- Frederic Bastiat
GeoLaureate8
Posts: 12,252
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6/25/2010 2:08:13 AM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 6/25/2010 1:40:49 AM, innomen wrote:
I have been to a couple UU services and find them...lacking. The "sermons" were wishy washy, unfocused, feel good, presentations that a fifth grader may enjoy. Where i live the pretentious elite attend UU services, all as white as rice and unblemished by the hoy polloy. They are very self deprecating of their "religion" and are clear to distinguish themselves from other religions. I found the whole thing to be a waste of time.

Wow, how did you end up at a UU service?

Thanks for sharing direct insight from the religion itself.
"We must raise the standard of the Old, free, decentralized, and strictly limited Republic."
-- Murray Rothbard

"The worst thing that can happen to a good cause is, not to be skillfully attacked, but to be ineptly defended."
-- Frederic Bastiat
InsertNameHere
Posts: 15,699
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6/25/2010 2:59:40 AM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 6/24/2010 11:48:23 PM, GeoLaureate8 wrote:
At 6/24/2010 11:39:11 PM, FREEDO wrote:
At 6/24/2010 11:38:20 PM, FREEDO wrote:
UU has no doctrines, yes, but that's the point. It's shaped around people building their own personal religion. It denies religious dogma.

There's no such thing as a free-thinking religion, but this is it if there ever was one.

According to Wiki, it is rooted in Christianity and monotheism. This is probably why the Bible and other Christian tenets are mentioned so much in the list of beliefs. However, it's just less strict and a bit looser on what to accept.

If you don't like Christianity, I don't see how a person could like UU. It's almost like Liberal Christianity!!

http://en.wikipedia.org...

You know, I was actually looking into it for awhile, but then I realized it was just another form of Christianity. That really turned me off.
belle
Posts: 4,113
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6/25/2010 3:06:42 AM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 6/25/2010 2:59:40 AM, InsertNameHere wrote:
At 6/24/2010 11:48:23 PM, GeoLaureate8 wrote:
At 6/24/2010 11:39:11 PM, FREEDO wrote:
At 6/24/2010 11:38:20 PM, FREEDO wrote:
UU has no doctrines, yes, but that's the point. It's shaped around people building their own personal religion. It denies religious dogma.

There's no such thing as a free-thinking religion, but this is it if there ever was one.

According to Wiki, it is rooted in Christianity and monotheism. This is probably why the Bible and other Christian tenets are mentioned so much in the list of beliefs. However, it's just less strict and a bit looser on what to accept.

If you don't like Christianity, I don't see how a person could like UU. It's almost like Liberal Christianity!!

http://en.wikipedia.org...

You know, I was actually looking into it for awhile, but then I realized it was just another form of Christianity. That really turned me off.

i gueeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeess but its christianity with all the bigoted hatred parts edited out. honestly, at a guess i would think that it would be perfect for you. except your authoritarian leanings i suppose.
evidently i only come to ddo to avoid doing homework...
InsertNameHere
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6/25/2010 3:08:34 AM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 6/25/2010 3:06:42 AM, belle wrote:

i gueeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeess but its christianity with all the bigoted hatred parts edited out. honestly, at a guess i would think that it would be perfect for you. except your authoritarian leanings i suppose.

I almost think that is one thing that makes me so attached to Islam, the fact that it's quite authoritarian as I also am.
GeoLaureate8
Posts: 12,252
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6/25/2010 3:20:04 AM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 6/25/2010 3:06:42 AM, belle wrote:
At 6/25/2010 2:59:40 AM, InsertNameHere wrote:
You know, I was actually looking into it for awhile, but then I realized it was just another form of Christianity. That really turned me off.

i gueeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeess but its christianity with all the bigoted hatred parts edited out. honestly, at a guess i would think that it would be perfect for you. except your authoritarian leanings i suppose.

This is also very true. I suggest you take a look at the tenets, Insert. Despite it's roots in Christianity, the major differences are evident.
"We must raise the standard of the Old, free, decentralized, and strictly limited Republic."
-- Murray Rothbard

"The worst thing that can happen to a good cause is, not to be skillfully attacked, but to be ineptly defended."
-- Frederic Bastiat
innomen
Posts: 10,052
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6/25/2010 12:36:23 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 6/25/2010 2:08:13 AM, GeoLaureate8 wrote:
At 6/25/2010 1:40:49 AM, innomen wrote:
I have been to a couple UU services and find them...lacking. The "sermons" were wishy washy, unfocused, feel good, presentations that a fifth grader may enjoy. Where i live the pretentious elite attend UU services, all as white as rice and unblemished by the hoy polloy. They are very self deprecating of their "religion" and are clear to distinguish themselves from other religions. I found the whole thing to be a waste of time.

Wow, how did you end up at a UU service?

Thanks for sharing direct insight from the religion itself.

I performed at a couple of their services.
wjmelements
Posts: 8,206
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6/25/2010 4:21:27 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
UUism supports rational choice and assessment of one's beliefs, Geo. The majority of church services are open-minded discussions, and members are accepted despite what they choose to believe or not. UUs are free to be rational and change their beliefs when they find them impossible or contradictory. UUism isn't a religion, it's an approach to religious truth. It doesn't contain contradictions, people just come to different conclusions.
in the blink of an eye you finally see the light
Danielle
Posts: 21,330
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7/31/2010 6:08:46 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 6/25/2010 4:21:27 PM, wjmelements wrote:
UUism supports rational choice and assessment of one's beliefs, Geo. The majority of church services are open-minded discussions, and members are accepted despite what they choose to believe or not. UUs are free to be rational and change their beliefs when they find them impossible or contradictory. UUism isn't a religion, it's an approach to religious truth. It doesn't contain contradictions, people just come to different conclusions.

If I said anything in support of UU, it's this ^

It's among the "best" religions not because it's the "most true" but because it's non-oppressive and promotes peace, understanding, tolerance, etc. As others have said, it's a haven for those who feel the need to believe in god and celebrate/worship said god in their own way, even if they reject the idea of religious superiority or social injustices in the name of god which many believers of a similar faith tend to do. It's an inclusive church where members are given the freedom to pray how they please and believe what they want so long as they do not violate the specific requirements of the church which basically show regard for various belief systems. Even though it's still complete BS, it's better that they uphold values of social tolerance and peace, justice, etc. unlike other religious groups.
President of DDO
belle
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7/31/2010 6:23:37 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 7/31/2010 6:08:46 PM, theLwerd wrote:
At 6/25/2010 4:21:27 PM, wjmelements wrote:
UUism supports rational choice and assessment of one's beliefs, Geo. The majority of church services are open-minded discussions, and members are accepted despite what they choose to believe or not. UUs are free to be rational and change their beliefs when they find them impossible or contradictory. UUism isn't a religion, it's an approach to religious truth. It doesn't contain contradictions, people just come to different conclusions.

If I said anything in support of UU, it's this ^

It's among the "best" religions not because it's the "most true" but because it's non-oppressive and promotes peace, understanding, tolerance, etc. As others have said, it's a haven for those who feel the need to believe in god and celebrate/worship said god in their own way, even if they reject the idea of religious superiority or social injustices in the name of god which many believers of a similar faith tend to do. It's an inclusive church where members are given the freedom to pray how they please and believe what they want so long as they do not violate the specific requirements of the church which basically show regard for various belief systems. Even though it's still complete BS, it's better that they uphold values of social tolerance and peace, justice, etc. unlike other religious groups.

that may be superior to most other religions in terms of... making people feel good... but in terms of truth value its even worse than most other religions because it doesn't even pretend to be rational. all beliefs are valid, no matter how absurd... which i guess is what you already said.... but i can only think of it and laugh.
evidently i only come to ddo to avoid doing homework...
Danielle
Posts: 21,330
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7/31/2010 7:13:56 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 7/31/2010 6:23:37 PM, belle wrote:
that may be superior to most other religions in terms of... making people feel good... but in terms of truth value its even worse than most other religions because it doesn't even pretend to be rational. all beliefs are valid, no matter how absurd... which i guess is what you already said.... but i can only think of it and laugh.

That also depends on what people think of religion though (the role they feel it plays or should play, or how people interpret god itself). If people celebrate religion because they think it's good for community, a moral system and represents XYZ then that's okay even if people disagree on what "god" is or wants. So long as the wants of tolerance and acceptance and blah blah blah is there then it's okay. I don't think UU says all beliefs are valid but rather that it's okay to hold something true so long as it does not push evil or intolerance unto others. I mean like I said - it's BS just like all other religion. But if you're like Voltaire ("if god didn't exist it would be necessary to invent him") then you can at least appreciate that it's a much smaller evil. Plus it promotes education and rationalization, right? Right?!
President of DDO
belle
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7/31/2010 7:18:37 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
honestly i think lacking in rational beliefs is more of a problem in modern society than lacking in morality is :P
evidently i only come to ddo to avoid doing homework...
Danielle
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7/31/2010 7:35:31 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 7/31/2010 7:18:37 PM, belle wrote:
honestly i think lacking in rational beliefs is more of a problem in modern society than lacking in morality is :P

Yeah, amen to that.
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GeoLaureate8
Posts: 12,252
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7/31/2010 7:36:54 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 7/31/2010 6:02:14 PM, theLwerd wrote:
At 6/24/2010 11:33:05 PM, GeoLaureate8 wrote:
(Lwerd even said it is the best religion.)

... Wut?

From the "Best Religion" thread:

"I'm not big on many organized religions; however, I guess if you want to be spiritual then among the best would be Utalitarian Universalism.

http://www.debate.org...
"We must raise the standard of the Old, free, decentralized, and strictly limited Republic."
-- Murray Rothbard

"The worst thing that can happen to a good cause is, not to be skillfully attacked, but to be ineptly defended."
-- Frederic Bastiat