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Religion in Public Schools

annhasle
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6/29/2010 5:12:09 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
I live in a fairly liberal part of the U.S. so I was surprised when I learned that the State Legislature was trying to implement new rules for Public High Schools. One of these new rules stated that the Ten Commandments (from the Bible) had to be posted somewhere in each classroom on a poster.

I do not see anything positive coming from posting something religious in a classroom, especially when they're supposed to be "secular". Religion and education should remain separate, right? However, teachers are suggesting that it would bring a more calm and constructive atmosphere if there were some religious "codes" implemented.

Should Public Schools (anywhere in the country) have a religious influence? And if you do think so, why?
I'm not back. This idiot just upset me which made me stop lurking.
InsertNameHere
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6/29/2010 5:17:02 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
No public schools in a multicultural, multireligious place like the US should promote any one religion. That is unfair to anybody else who happens to go to that school who doesn't follow the religion being promoted(in this case, Christianity). Not everybody is Christian so not everybody should have to follow Christian teachings. It's that simple. Prayer is another one. If they must have prayer in public schools, there should be an opportunity for members of all faiths to do their own prayers rather than a school organized Christian prayer.
GeoLaureate8
Posts: 12,252
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6/29/2010 5:17:48 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 6/29/2010 5:12:09 PM, annhasle wrote:
I live in a fairly liberal part of the U.S. so I was surprised when I learned that the State Legislature was trying to implement new rules for Public High Schools. One of these new rules stated that the Ten Commandments (from the Bible) had to be posted somewhere in each classroom on a poster.

I do not see anything positive coming from posting something religious in a classroom, especially when they're supposed to be "secular". Religion and education should remain separate, right? However, teachers are suggesting that it would bring a more calm and constructive atmosphere if there were some religious "codes" implemented.

The 10 Commandments are the worst religious codes ever.

How do they even apply to the classroom?

Don't worship other Gods, honor your parents, don't make statues, etc. How does that work in a classroom?
"We must raise the standard of the Old, free, decentralized, and strictly limited Republic."
-- Murray Rothbard

"The worst thing that can happen to a good cause is, not to be skillfully attacked, but to be ineptly defended."
-- Frederic Bastiat
annhasle
Posts: 6,657
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6/29/2010 5:22:00 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 6/29/2010 5:17:48 PM, GeoLaureate8 wrote:
At 6/29/2010 5:12:09 PM, annhasle wrote:
I live in a fairly liberal part of the U.S. so I was surprised when I learned that the State Legislature was trying to implement new rules for Public High Schools. One of these new rules stated that the Ten Commandments (from the Bible) had to be posted somewhere in each classroom on a poster.

I do not see anything positive coming from posting something religious in a classroom, especially when they're supposed to be "secular". Religion and education should remain separate, right? However, teachers are suggesting that it would bring a more calm and constructive atmosphere if there were some religious "codes" implemented.

The 10 Commandments are the worst religious codes ever.

How do they even apply to the classroom?

Don't worship other Gods, honor your parents, don't make statues, etc. How does that work in a classroom?

I guess they want to instill the fear of God in us so we won't wreck havoc as much? I truly have no idea which is why I ask. Personally since I don't believe in "Him", my attitude won't change but I just don't want religious nuts coming out and dictating my daily life.
I'm not back. This idiot just upset me which made me stop lurking.
GeoLaureate8
Posts: 12,252
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6/29/2010 5:25:55 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 6/29/2010 5:22:00 PM, annhasle wrote:
I guess they want to instill the fear of God in us so we won't wreck havoc as much?

Lol. Those posters would make me wreck havoc anymore. I would love to see a picture of Jesus in a classroom to calm people instead, but nothing infuriates me more than the Ten Commandments!
"We must raise the standard of the Old, free, decentralized, and strictly limited Republic."
-- Murray Rothbard

"The worst thing that can happen to a good cause is, not to be skillfully attacked, but to be ineptly defended."
-- Frederic Bastiat
annhasle
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6/29/2010 5:26:17 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 6/29/2010 5:23:09 PM, FREEDO wrote:
Religion should be allowed in schools but not implemented. That's retarded.

How should it be allowed?
I'm not back. This idiot just upset me which made me stop lurking.
GeoLaureate8
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6/29/2010 5:26:34 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 6/29/2010 5:25:55 PM, GeoLaureate8 wrote:
At 6/29/2010 5:22:00 PM, annhasle wrote:
I guess they want to instill the fear of God in us so we won't wreck havoc as much?

Lol. Those posters would make me wreck havoc even more. I would love to see a picture of Jesus in a classroom to calm people instead, but nothing infuriates me more than the Ten Commandments!

*Edit
"We must raise the standard of the Old, free, decentralized, and strictly limited Republic."
-- Murray Rothbard

"The worst thing that can happen to a good cause is, not to be skillfully attacked, but to be ineptly defended."
-- Frederic Bastiat
FREEDO
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6/29/2010 5:27:36 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 6/29/2010 5:26:17 PM, annhasle wrote:
At 6/29/2010 5:23:09 PM, FREEDO wrote:
Religion should be allowed in schools but not implemented. That's retarded.

How should it be allowed?

Freedom of speech.
GRAND POOBAH OF DDO

fnord
studentathletechristian8
Posts: 5,810
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6/29/2010 5:27:59 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
I'm a firm believer in a division of church and state. No public school should promote one religion over others. Heck, there's too much influence in my school, and I go to a private, Catholic school! (That was a joke)

I get frustrated when I see the American flag in my church as well.
GeoLaureate8
Posts: 12,252
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6/29/2010 5:28:06 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 6/29/2010 5:26:17 PM, annhasle wrote:
At 6/29/2010 5:23:09 PM, FREEDO wrote:
Religion should be allowed in schools but not implemented. That's retarded.

How should it be allowed?

I agree. People should be able to practice what they want where they want. I wouldn't even be against people evangelizing in public schools. The problem is when religion is implemented or instated and the people who are supposed to be secular educators start indoctrinating people.
"We must raise the standard of the Old, free, decentralized, and strictly limited Republic."
-- Murray Rothbard

"The worst thing that can happen to a good cause is, not to be skillfully attacked, but to be ineptly defended."
-- Frederic Bastiat
InsertNameHere
Posts: 15,699
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6/29/2010 5:29:17 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 6/29/2010 5:28:06 PM, GeoLaureate8 wrote:
At 6/29/2010 5:26:17 PM, annhasle wrote:
At 6/29/2010 5:23:09 PM, FREEDO wrote:
Religion should be allowed in schools but not implemented. That's retarded.

How should it be allowed?

I agree. People should be able to practice what they want where they want. I wouldn't even be against people evangelizing in public schools. The problem is when religion is implemented or instated and the people who are supposed to be secular educators start indoctrinating people.

This.
annhasle
Posts: 6,657
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6/29/2010 5:31:20 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 6/29/2010 5:27:36 PM, FREEDO wrote:
At 6/29/2010 5:26:17 PM, annhasle wrote:
At 6/29/2010 5:23:09 PM, FREEDO wrote:
Religion should be allowed in schools but not implemented. That's retarded.

How should it be allowed?

Freedom of speech.

Well, yes. They should be able to talk about it of course.... I don't have a problem with anyone practicing their religion in my school as long as I'm not forced to participate.

My friend just emailed me the rest of the rules and one of them is prayer before lunch. And the other? No saying "Oh my God" since it is offensive.... School has turned into an even bigger personal hell for me now.
I'm not back. This idiot just upset me which made me stop lurking.
GeoLaureate8
Posts: 12,252
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6/29/2010 5:34:31 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 6/29/2010 5:31:20 PM, annhasle wrote:
Well, yes. They should be able to talk about it of course.... I don't have a problem with anyone practicing their religion in my school as long as I'm not forced to participate.

My friend just emailed me the rest of the rules and one of them is prayer before lunch. And the other? No saying "Oh my God" since it is offensive.... School has turned into an even bigger personal hell for me now.

Somebody needs to raise Hell about this. If it were my state I'd be harassing the Board of Education everyday.
"We must raise the standard of the Old, free, decentralized, and strictly limited Republic."
-- Murray Rothbard

"The worst thing that can happen to a good cause is, not to be skillfully attacked, but to be ineptly defended."
-- Frederic Bastiat
annhasle
Posts: 6,657
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6/29/2010 5:36:57 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 6/29/2010 5:34:31 PM, GeoLaureate8 wrote:
At 6/29/2010 5:31:20 PM, annhasle wrote:
Well, yes. They should be able to talk about it of course.... I don't have a problem with anyone practicing their religion in my school as long as I'm not forced to participate.

My friend just emailed me the rest of the rules and one of them is prayer before lunch. And the other? No saying "Oh my God" since it is offensive.... School has turned into an even bigger personal hell for me now.

Somebody needs to raise Hell about this. If it were my state I'd be harassing the Board of Education everyday.

Well, I'm trying to see the other side so know what points to refute in my protest since apparently I'm doing the speech... I hoped someone religious on this site would give some of their twisted views of why it would be good.

Once I know the other side, I shall raise hell in an educated manner! :D
I'm not back. This idiot just upset me which made me stop lurking.
InsertNameHere
Posts: 15,699
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6/29/2010 5:38:48 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 6/29/2010 5:36:57 PM, annhasle wrote:
At 6/29/2010 5:34:31 PM, GeoLaureate8 wrote:
At 6/29/2010 5:31:20 PM, annhasle wrote:
Well, yes. They should be able to talk about it of course.... I don't have a problem with anyone practicing their religion in my school as long as I'm not forced to participate.

My friend just emailed me the rest of the rules and one of them is prayer before lunch. And the other? No saying "Oh my God" since it is offensive.... School has turned into an even bigger personal hell for me now.

Somebody needs to raise Hell about this. If it were my state I'd be harassing the Board of Education everyday.

Well, I'm trying to see the other side so know what points to refute in my protest since apparently I'm doing the speech... I hoped someone religious on this site would give some of their twisted views of why it would be good.

Once I know the other side, I shall raise hell in an educated manner! :D

Can't help you there. I'm too much of a religious moderate to think these kinds of things are good. >.>
GeoLaureate8
Posts: 12,252
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6/29/2010 5:38:59 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 6/29/2010 5:36:57 PM, annhasle wrote:
Well, I'm trying to see the other side so know what points to refute in my protest since apparently I'm doing the speech... I hoped someone religious on this site would give some of their twisted views of why it would be good.

Once I know the other side, I shall raise hell in an educated manner! :D

Great! I didn't know you were going to those lengths. Good job and good luck!
"We must raise the standard of the Old, free, decentralized, and strictly limited Republic."
-- Murray Rothbard

"The worst thing that can happen to a good cause is, not to be skillfully attacked, but to be ineptly defended."
-- Frederic Bastiat
feverish
Posts: 2,716
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6/29/2010 5:49:07 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 6/29/2010 5:17:02 PM, InsertNameHere wrote:
That is unfair to anybody else who happens to go to that school who doesn't follow the religion being promoted(in this case, Christianity).

I'm being pedantic, but the ten commandments are of course every bit as relevant to Jews as they are to Christians. You would know better than me whether they are also relevant to Muslims.

I agree with the general consensus that this crap has no place in the classroom. Unless of course it is simply being used as part of a religious studies curriculum that covers the range of different popular faiths, which doesn't sound like the case here.
InsertNameHere
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6/29/2010 5:53:09 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 6/29/2010 5:49:07 PM, feverish wrote:
At 6/29/2010 5:17:02 PM, InsertNameHere wrote:
That is unfair to anybody else who happens to go to that school who doesn't follow the religion being promoted(in this case, Christianity).

I'm being pedantic, but the ten commandments are of course every bit as relevant to Jews as they are to Christians. You would know better than me whether they are also relevant to Muslims.

Muslims have stuff similar to the ten commandments, yes. That's irrelevant here though as that stuff shouldn't be in schools anyway.

I agree with the general consensus that this crap has no place in the classroom. Unless of course it is simply being used as part of a religious studies curriculum that covers the range of different popular faiths, which doesn't sound like the case here.

That isn't the case here. It's being used to promote one religion over another, which is unfair to all non-christians attending that school.
annhasle
Posts: 6,657
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6/29/2010 6:42:04 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 6/29/2010 5:48:55 PM, FREEDO wrote:
I would rally and protest.

That's what I'm doing. I'm going to crash the School Board meeting on Thursday and give them my stance on it. I'm looking for a secular environment, since it's suitable for all places. And if those teachers who are advocating for these new rules still want to enforce, I say we kick them out. They can go work at a Private school.

I can't think of anything positive coming from these new rules so hopefully I win. :)
I am representing 2,750 kids that go to my school.... :pressure: -__-
I'm not back. This idiot just upset me which made me stop lurking.
Cerebral_Narcissist
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6/29/2010 6:51:16 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 6/29/2010 6:42:04 PM, annhasle wrote:
At 6/29/2010 5:48:55 PM, FREEDO wrote:
I would rally and protest.

That's what I'm doing. I'm going to crash the School Board meeting on Thursday and give them my stance on it. I'm looking for a secular environment, since it's suitable for all places. And if those teachers who are advocating for these new rules still want to enforce, I say we kick them out. They can go work at a Private school.

I can't think of anything positive coming from these new rules so hopefully I win. :)
I am representing 2,750 kids that go to my school.... :pressure: -__-

You should out christianise them and demand that all 620 Judaic laws taught by Christ are displayed.
I am voting for Innomen because of his intelligence, common sense, humility and the fact that Juggle appears to listen to him. Any other Presidential style would have a large sub-section of the site up in arms. If I was President I would destroy the site though elitism, others would let it run riot. Innomen represents a middle way that works, neither draconian nor anarchic and that is the only way things can work. Plus he does it all without ego trips.
annhasle
Posts: 6,657
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6/29/2010 6:52:49 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 6/29/2010 6:51:16 PM, Cerebral_Narcissist wrote:
At 6/29/2010 6:42:04 PM, annhasle wrote:
At 6/29/2010 5:48:55 PM, FREEDO wrote:
I would rally and protest.

That's what I'm doing. I'm going to crash the School Board meeting on Thursday and give them my stance on it. I'm looking for a secular environment, since it's suitable for all places. And if those teachers who are advocating for these new rules still want to enforce, I say we kick them out. They can go work at a Private school.

I can't think of anything positive coming from these new rules so hopefully I win. :)
I am representing 2,750 kids that go to my school.... :pressure: -__-

You should out christianise them and demand that all 620 Judaic laws taught by Christ are displayed.

I think I'd throw up halfway through that demand. My body rejects religion. :D
I'm not back. This idiot just upset me which made me stop lurking.
studentathletechristian8
Posts: 5,810
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6/29/2010 6:54:12 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 6/29/2010 6:52:49 PM, annhasle wrote:
At 6/29/2010 6:51:16 PM, Cerebral_Narcissist wrote:
At 6/29/2010 6:42:04 PM, annhasle wrote:
At 6/29/2010 5:48:55 PM, FREEDO wrote:
I would rally and protest.

That's what I'm doing. I'm going to crash the School Board meeting on Thursday and give them my stance on it. I'm looking for a secular environment, since it's suitable for all places. And if those teachers who are advocating for these new rules still want to enforce, I say we kick them out. They can go work at a Private school.

I can't think of anything positive coming from these new rules so hopefully I win. :)
I am representing 2,750 kids that go to my school.... :pressure: -__-

You should out christianise them and demand that all 620 Judaic laws taught by Christ are displayed.

I think I'd throw up halfway through that demand. My body rejects religion. :D

No, your rationale rejects religion.
annhasle
Posts: 6,657
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6/29/2010 6:55:40 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 6/29/2010 6:54:12 PM, studentathletechristian8 wrote:
At 6/29/2010 6:52:49 PM, annhasle wrote:
At 6/29/2010 6:51:16 PM, Cerebral_Narcissist wrote:
At 6/29/2010 6:42:04 PM, annhasle wrote:
At 6/29/2010 5:48:55 PM, FREEDO wrote:
I would rally and protest.

That's what I'm doing. I'm going to crash the School Board meeting on Thursday and give them my stance on it. I'm looking for a secular environment, since it's suitable for all places. And if those teachers who are advocating for these new rules still want to enforce, I say we kick them out. They can go work at a Private school.

I can't think of anything positive coming from these new rules so hopefully I win. :)
I am representing 2,750 kids that go to my school.... :pressure: -__-

You should out christianise them and demand that all 620 Judaic laws taught by Christ are displayed.

I think I'd throw up halfway through that demand. My body rejects religion. :D

No, your rationale rejects religion.

It was a joke... '-_-
I'm not back. This idiot just upset me which made me stop lurking.
studentathletechristian8
Posts: 5,810
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6/29/2010 6:56:19 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
I think I'd throw up halfway through that demand. My body rejects religion. :D

No, your rationale rejects religion.

It was a joke... '-_-

I know. I saw the ":D." ;)
annhasle
Posts: 6,657
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6/29/2010 7:12:29 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
So, this girl heard that I was protesting against these new rules and was extremely offended. Here's what she wrote to me in an email:

"Dear Ann,

I was just notified that you were intending to represent our school at the board meeting this week and that you are against these new rules. I am flabbergasted. For someone who has won so many awards for psychology and debate, I thought you'd understand the importance of a religious atmosphere for education.

And not only that, but you are violating my first amendment; the freedom of religion. I am offended that you seek the annulment of these new codes since you don't represent those with a higher moral code and understanding of the world. If the light does not lead you; do not lead our school. Vengeance will be swift; not even God could prevent the heavenly blows.
-Claryssa"

First of all, yikes. Secondly... what the hell do I say to that? I don't believe I am violating her first amendment rights nor do I realize the importance of a religious atmosphere. But she is seriously offended....

Someone out there; how do I let this girl down gently so she doesn't want to hang me on a cross as the anti-Christ?
I'm not back. This idiot just upset me which made me stop lurking.
ravenwaen
Posts: 96
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6/29/2010 9:06:23 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 6/29/2010 7:12:29 PM, annhasle wrote:
So, this girl heard that I was protesting against these new rules and was extremely offended. Here's what she wrote to me in an email:

"Dear Ann,

I was just notified that you were intending to represent our school at the board meeting this week and that you are against these new rules. I am flabbergasted. For someone who has won so many awards for psychology and debate, I thought you'd understand the importance of a religious atmosphere for education.

And not only that, but you are violating my first amendment; the freedom of religion. I am offended that you seek the annulment of these new codes since you don't represent those with a higher moral code and understanding of the world. If the light does not lead you; do not lead our school. Vengeance will be swift; not even God could prevent the heavenly blows.
-Claryssa"

First of all, yikes. Secondly... what the hell do I say to that? I don't believe I am violating her first amendment rights nor do I realize the importance of a religious atmosphere. But she is seriously offended....

Someone out there; how do I let this girl down gently so she doesn't want to hang me on a cross as the anti-Christ?

Wow! Where to begin...

Who's violating whose first amendment rights?!

I think we need to revisit the first amendment: "Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech..."

First of all, you can't violate a person's freedom of speech because you aren't the government. And not only does the "freedom of speech" clause NOT extend to schools endorsing the ten commandments, but it is in direct violation of the "establishment of religion" clause!

Remind her that a moral understanding of America should start with an accurate understanding of Constitutional rights.
studentathletechristian8
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6/29/2010 9:08:46 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 6/29/2010 7:12:29 PM, annhasle wrote:
So, this girl heard that I was protesting against these new rules and was extremely offended. Here's what she wrote to me in an email:

"Dear Ann,

I was just notified that you were intending to represent our school at the board meeting this week and that you are against these new rules. I am flabbergasted. For someone who has won so many awards for psychology and debate, I thought you'd understand the importance of a religious atmosphere for education.

And not only that, but you are violating my first amendment; the freedom of religion. I am offended that you seek the annulment of these new codes since you don't represent those with a higher moral code and understanding of the world. If the light does not lead you; do not lead our school. Vengeance will be swift; not even God could prevent the heavenly blows.
-Claryssa"

First of all, yikes. Secondly... what the hell do I say to that? I don't believe I am violating her first amendment rights nor do I realize the importance of a religious atmosphere. But she is seriously offended....

Someone out there; how do I let this girl down gently so she doesn't want to hang me on a cross as the anti-Christ?

Trust me; you are doing nothing incorrectly. She's actually trying to encroach on your first amendment rights ;)