Total Posts:41|Showing Posts:1-30|Last Page
Jump to topic:

How come Jewish people, no longer sacrifice

Wylted
Posts: 21,167
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
1/31/2015 7:52:15 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
Why would they stop sacrificing goats and stuff and are there small segments of them that possibly do it in secret?
uncung
Posts: 3,433
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
1/31/2015 7:55:41 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 1/31/2015 7:52:15 PM, Wylted wrote:
Why would they stop sacrificing goats and stuff and are there small segments of them that possibly do it in secret?

they still do it for food.
Wylted
Posts: 21,167
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
1/31/2015 8:01:55 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 1/31/2015 7:55:41 PM, uncung wrote:
At 1/31/2015 7:52:15 PM, Wylted wrote:
Why would they stop sacrificing goats and stuff and are there small segments of them that possibly do it in secret?

they still do it for food.

It's not a sacrifice of you eat it. Sacrifice literally means to give up something.
uncung
Posts: 3,433
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
1/31/2015 8:12:53 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 1/31/2015 8:01:55 PM, Wylted wrote:
At 1/31/2015 7:55:41 PM, uncung wrote:
At 1/31/2015 7:52:15 PM, Wylted wrote:
Why would they stop sacrificing goats and stuff and are there small segments of them that possibly do it in secret?

they still do it for food.

It's not a sacrifice of you eat it. Sacrifice literally means to give up something.
in abrahamic religions, they sacrifice the animals however eventually they consume them as well.
Wylted
Posts: 21,167
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
1/31/2015 8:14:42 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 1/31/2015 8:12:53 PM, uncung wrote:
At 1/31/2015 8:01:55 PM, Wylted wrote:
At 1/31/2015 7:55:41 PM, uncung wrote:
At 1/31/2015 7:52:15 PM, Wylted wrote:
Why would they stop sacrificing goats and stuff and are there small segments of them that possibly do it in secret?

they still do it for food.

It's not a sacrifice of you eat it. Sacrifice literally means to give up something.
in abrahamic religions, they sacrifice the animals however eventually they consume them as well.

That's silly but I believe you until somebody comes on to correct that.
uncung
Posts: 3,433
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
1/31/2015 8:17:07 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 1/31/2015 8:14:42 PM, Wylted wrote:
At 1/31/2015 8:12:53 PM, uncung wrote:
At 1/31/2015 8:01:55 PM, Wylted wrote:
At 1/31/2015 7:55:41 PM, uncung wrote:
At 1/31/2015 7:52:15 PM, Wylted wrote:
Why would they stop sacrificing goats and stuff and are there small segments of them that possibly do it in secret?

they still do it for food.

It's not a sacrifice of you eat it. Sacrifice literally means to give up something.
in abrahamic religions, they sacrifice the animals however eventually they consume them as well.

That's silly but I believe you until somebody comes on to correct that.

do you think they simply dispose and abandon the sacrificed animals just like in hindu?
Wylted
Posts: 21,167
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
1/31/2015 8:20:18 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 1/31/2015 8:17:07 PM, uncung wrote:
At 1/31/2015 8:14:42 PM, Wylted wrote:
At 1/31/2015 8:12:53 PM, uncung wrote:
At 1/31/2015 8:01:55 PM, Wylted wrote:
At 1/31/2015 7:55:41 PM, uncung wrote:
At 1/31/2015 7:52:15 PM, Wylted wrote:
Why would they stop sacrificing goats and stuff and are there small segments of them that possibly do it in secret?

they still do it for food.

It's not a sacrifice of you eat it. Sacrifice literally means to give up something.
in abrahamic religions, they sacrifice the animals however eventually they consume them as well.

That's silly but I believe you until somebody comes on to correct that.

do you think they simply dispose and abandon the sacrificed animals just like in hindu?

It seems to just go against the definition of the word sacrifice because it isn't really giving up something if you still make use of it for personal gain.
uncung
Posts: 3,433
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
1/31/2015 8:24:10 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
do you think they simply dispose and abandon the sacrificed animals just like in hindu?

It seems to just go against the definition of the word sacrifice because it isn't really giving up something if you still make use of it for personal gain.

If it doesn't deserve to be called as a sacrificing according to your personal definition, so how supposed to call it in english?
Wylted
Posts: 21,167
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
1/31/2015 8:26:17 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 1/31/2015 8:24:10 PM, uncung wrote:
do you think they simply dispose and abandon the sacrificed animals just like in hindu?

It seems to just go against the definition of the word sacrifice because it isn't really giving up something if you still make use of it for personal gain.

If it doesn't deserve to be called as a sacrificing according to your personal definition, so how supposed to call it in english?

Offering may be more appropriate.
philochristos
Posts: 2,614
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
1/31/2015 8:46:24 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 1/31/2015 7:52:15 PM, Wylted wrote:
Why would they stop sacrificing goats and stuff and are there small segments of them that possibly do it in secret?

Because there's no Temple or priesthood.
"Not to know of what things one should demand demonstration, and of what one should not, argues want of education." ~Aristotle

"It is the mark of an educated mind to be able to entertain a thought without accepting it." ~Aristotle
Wylted
Posts: 21,167
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
1/31/2015 8:47:42 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 1/31/2015 8:46:24 PM, philochristos wrote:
At 1/31/2015 7:52:15 PM, Wylted wrote:
Why would they stop sacrificing goats and stuff and are there small segments of them that possibly do it in secret?

Because there's no Temple or priesthood.

I just googled that. I'll have to re read the relevant portions of the Bible to see why they interpreted it that way.
bornofgod
Posts: 11,322
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
1/31/2015 9:24:21 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 1/31/2015 7:52:15 PM, Wylted wrote:
Why would they stop sacrificing goats and stuff and are there small segments of them that possibly do it in secret?

None of the Jews listened to our Creator's voice spoken through the Jewish prophets. They did whatever God's plan called the beast made them do, particularly practice religious traditions and build false gods like the rest of God's deceived people do.

However, there were a few Jewish believers who God formed to listen to His saints preach the gospel, which is His voice.
airmax1227
Posts: 13,240
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
1/31/2015 9:28:18 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 1/31/2015 7:52:15 PM, Wylted wrote:
Why would they stop sacrificing goats and stuff and are there small segments of them that possibly do it in secret?

The Jewish temple no longer exists, so there are no longer sacrifices.

Here's a good link about Qarbanot (sacrifices):

http://www.jewfaq.org...
Debate.org Moderator
airmax1227
Posts: 13,240
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
1/31/2015 9:31:45 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 1/31/2015 8:47:42 PM, Wylted wrote:
At 1/31/2015 8:46:24 PM, philochristos wrote:
At 1/31/2015 7:52:15 PM, Wylted wrote:
Why would they stop sacrificing goats and stuff and are there small segments of them that possibly do it in secret?

Because there's no Temple or priesthood.

I just googled that. I'll have to re read the relevant portions of the Bible to see why they interpreted it that way.

Deuteronomy 12:13-14

13 Take care that you do not offer your burnt offerings at any place that you see, 14 but at the place that the Lord will choose in one of your tribes, there you shall offer your burnt offerings, and there you shall do all that I am commanding you.

...

The commandment was to do the sacrifices at the temple, there is no temple, so there are no sacrifices.
Debate.org Moderator
Wylted
Posts: 21,167
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
1/31/2015 9:33:22 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 1/31/2015 9:28:18 PM, airmax1227 wrote:
At 1/31/2015 7:52:15 PM, Wylted wrote:
Why would they stop sacrificing goats and stuff and are there small segments of them that possibly do it in secret?

The Jewish temple no longer exists, so there are no longer sacrifices.

Here's a good link about Qarbanot (sacrifices):

http://www.jewfaq.org...

Yeh, that page came up in my google search also and I read it. I'll have to reread relevant portions of the Torah to fully understand what the Rabbi (I assume couldn't find author's name) was referring back to. Thanks
Wylted
Posts: 21,167
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
1/31/2015 9:36:55 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 1/31/2015 9:31:45 PM, airmax1227 wrote:
At 1/31/2015 8:47:42 PM, Wylted wrote:
At 1/31/2015 8:46:24 PM, philochristos wrote:
At 1/31/2015 7:52:15 PM, Wylted wrote:
Why would they stop sacrificing goats and stuff and are there small segments of them that possibly do it in secret?

Because there's no Temple or priesthood.

I just googled that. I'll have to re read the relevant portions of the Bible to see why they interpreted it that way.

Deuteronomy 12:13-14

13 Take care that you do not offer your burnt offerings at any place that you see, 14 but at the place that the Lord will choose in one of your tribes, there you shall offer your burnt offerings, and there you shall do all that I am commanding you.

...

The commandment was to do the sacrifices at the temple, there is no temple, so there are no sacrifices.

This is what I don't understand. It looks like a commandment to sacrifice. Not being capable to do it outside the temple isn't something it looks like the book took into account.

How was the conclusion came to, just forego sacrifice as opposed to finding a new "divinely inspired" place for a temple?
Wylted
Posts: 21,167
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
1/31/2015 9:38:46 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
I'm kinda assuming that temple isn't used in as much of a generic sense in the Torah as in common usage, which may pose a problem but I can't be sure.
airmax1227
Posts: 13,240
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
1/31/2015 9:40:37 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 1/31/2015 9:36:55 PM, Wylted wrote:
At 1/31/2015 9:31:45 PM, airmax1227 wrote:
At 1/31/2015 8:47:42 PM, Wylted wrote:
At 1/31/2015 8:46:24 PM, philochristos wrote:
At 1/31/2015 7:52:15 PM, Wylted wrote:
Why would they stop sacrificing goats and stuff and are there small segments of them that possibly do it in secret?

Because there's no Temple or priesthood.

I just googled that. I'll have to re read the relevant portions of the Bible to see why they interpreted it that way.

Deuteronomy 12:13-14

13 Take care that you do not offer your burnt offerings at any place that you see, 14 but at the place that the Lord will choose in one of your tribes, there you shall offer your burnt offerings, and there you shall do all that I am commanding you.

...

The commandment was to do the sacrifices at the temple, there is no temple, so there are no sacrifices.

This is what I don't understand. It looks like a commandment to sacrifice. Not being capable to do it outside the temple isn't something it looks like the book took into account.


It seems to do so to me, and it's what the commentators and rabbis agreed on. The sacrifices were to be done at the temple and god offered no other alternative. So alternatives to sacrifices altogether are used, like prayer and charity.

How was the conclusion came to, just forego sacrifice as opposed to finding a new "divinely inspired" place for a temple?

Yup pretty much... A lot of Jewish traditionalism is based entirely on the temple's existence. Without the temple, Jewish culture maintains alternatives.
Debate.org Moderator
airmax1227
Posts: 13,240
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
1/31/2015 9:43:38 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 1/31/2015 9:38:46 PM, Wylted wrote:
I'm kinda assuming that temple isn't used in as much of a generic sense in the Torah as in common usage, which may pose a problem but I can't be sure.

Temple specifically means the temple in Jerusalem - not a generic temple - but the specific temple.

The Temple was destroyed in the year 70, and all the remains of it is the wailing wall. The Dome of the Rock now sits on the temple mount - the holiest site in Judaism. So the temple no longer exists, and anything requiring the temple is no longer done.
Debate.org Moderator
Wylted
Posts: 21,167
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
1/31/2015 9:47:08 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 1/31/2015 9:43:38 PM, airmax1227 wrote:
At 1/31/2015 9:38:46 PM, Wylted wrote:
I'm kinda assuming that temple isn't used in as much of a generic sense in the Torah as in common usage, which may pose a problem but I can't be sure.

Temple specifically means the temple in Jerusalem - not a generic temple - but the specific temple.

The Temple was destroyed in the year 70, and all the remains of it is the wailing wall. The Dome of the Rock now sits on the temple mount - the holiest site in Judaism. So the temple no longer exists, and anything requiring the temple is no longer done.

Well it would be easier to digest the Torah if it actually said Temple Mount instead of temple. I think translators should've helped me out with that one.
bornofgod
Posts: 11,322
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
1/31/2015 9:50:04 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 1/31/2015 9:47:08 PM, Wylted wrote:
At 1/31/2015 9:43:38 PM, airmax1227 wrote:
At 1/31/2015 9:38:46 PM, Wylted wrote:
I'm kinda assuming that temple isn't used in as much of a generic sense in the Torah as in common usage, which may pose a problem but I can't be sure.

Temple specifically means the temple in Jerusalem - not a generic temple - but the specific temple.

The Temple was destroyed in the year 70, and all the remains of it is the wailing wall. The Dome of the Rock now sits on the temple mount - the holiest site in Judaism. So the temple no longer exists, and anything requiring the temple is no longer done.


Well it would be easier to digest the Torah if it actually said Temple Mount instead of temple. I think translators should've helped me out with that one.

The Jews and Christians of today have no idea what "temple" means in the prophecies.
Gentorev
Posts: 2,894
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
1/31/2015 9:50:25 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 1/31/2015 8:14:42 PM, Wylted wrote:
At 1/31/2015 8:12:53 PM, uncung wrote:
At 1/31/2015 8:01:55 PM, Wylted wrote:
At 1/31/2015 7:55:41 PM, uncung wrote:
At 1/31/2015 7:52:15 PM, Wylted wrote:
Why would they stop sacrificing goats and stuff and are there small segments of them that possibly do it in secret?

they still do it for food.

It's not a sacrifice of you eat it. Sacrifice literally means to give up something.
in abrahamic religions, they sacrifice the animals however eventually they consume them as well.

That's silly but I believe you until somebody comes on to correct that.

If you read Leviticus 3: it is only the rump and fat of the bull, sheep, or goat that is burnt on the alter as a food offering to the Lord.

Whereas Deuteronomy 33" 10; speaks of whole sacrifices burnt on the alter, as does Psalms 51: 19; where a distinction is made between burned offerings and "WHOLE" burnt offerings.
Wylted
Posts: 21,167
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
1/31/2015 9:51:26 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 1/31/2015 9:50:04 PM, bornofgod wrote:
At 1/31/2015 9:47:08 PM, Wylted wrote:
At 1/31/2015 9:43:38 PM, airmax1227 wrote:
At 1/31/2015 9:38:46 PM, Wylted wrote:
I'm kinda assuming that temple isn't used in as much of a generic sense in the Torah as in common usage, which may pose a problem but I can't be sure.

Temple specifically means the temple in Jerusalem - not a generic temple - but the specific temple.

The Temple was destroyed in the year 70, and all the remains of it is the wailing wall. The Dome of the Rock now sits on the temple mount - the holiest site in Judaism. So the temple no longer exists, and anything requiring the temple is no longer done.


Well it would be easier to digest the Torah if it actually said Temple Mount instead of temple. I think translators should've helped me out with that one.

The Jews and Christians of today have no idea what "temple" means in the prophecies.

What does it mean to you?
airmax1227
Posts: 13,240
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
1/31/2015 9:52:55 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 1/31/2015 9:47:08 PM, Wylted wrote:
At 1/31/2015 9:43:38 PM, airmax1227 wrote:
At 1/31/2015 9:38:46 PM, Wylted wrote:
I'm kinda assuming that temple isn't used in as much of a generic sense in the Torah as in common usage, which may pose a problem but I can't be sure.

Temple specifically means the temple in Jerusalem - not a generic temple - but the specific temple.

The Temple was destroyed in the year 70, and all the remains of it is the wailing wall. The Dome of the Rock now sits on the temple mount - the holiest site in Judaism. So the temple no longer exists, and anything requiring the temple is no longer done.


Well it would be easier to digest the Torah if it actually said Temple Mount instead of temple. I think translators should've helped me out with that one.

haha fair enough... just for future reference, if you are ever referencing the temple in Judaic tradition, it's always going to be about THE temple. The only thing that you'd have to keep in mind is that there were 2 of them, one was destroyed and rebuilt, and Jewish traditional belief also holds that a third and final temple will be built when the messiah comes.
Debate.org Moderator
Wylted
Posts: 21,167
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
1/31/2015 9:55:13 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 1/31/2015 9:52:55 PM, airmax1227 wrote:
At 1/31/2015 9:47:08 PM, Wylted wrote:
At 1/31/2015 9:43:38 PM, airmax1227 wrote:
At 1/31/2015 9:38:46 PM, Wylted wrote:
I'm kinda assuming that temple isn't used in as much of a generic sense in the Torah as in common usage, which may pose a problem but I can't be sure.

Temple specifically means the temple in Jerusalem - not a generic temple - but the specific temple.

The Temple was destroyed in the year 70, and all the remains of it is the wailing wall. The Dome of the Rock now sits on the temple mount - the holiest site in Judaism. So the temple no longer exists, and anything requiring the temple is no longer done.


Well it would be easier to digest the Torah if it actually said Temple Mount instead of temple. I think translators should've helped me out with that one.

haha fair enough... just for future reference, if you are ever referencing the temple in Judaic tradition, it's always going to be about THE temple. The only thing that you'd have to keep in mind is that there were 2 of them, one was destroyed and rebuilt, and Jewish traditional belief also holds that a third and final temple will be built when the messiah comes.

I'll get on that, and you know the world peace thing.
bornofgod
Posts: 11,322
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
1/31/2015 9:55:15 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 1/31/2015 9:51:26 PM, Wylted wrote:
At 1/31/2015 9:50:04 PM, bornofgod wrote:
At 1/31/2015 9:47:08 PM, Wylted wrote:
At 1/31/2015 9:43:38 PM, airmax1227 wrote:
At 1/31/2015 9:38:46 PM, Wylted wrote:
I'm kinda assuming that temple isn't used in as much of a generic sense in the Torah as in common usage, which may pose a problem but I can't be sure.

Temple specifically means the temple in Jerusalem - not a generic temple - but the specific temple.

The Temple was destroyed in the year 70, and all the remains of it is the wailing wall. The Dome of the Rock now sits on the temple mount - the holiest site in Judaism. So the temple no longer exists, and anything requiring the temple is no longer done.


Well it would be easier to digest the Torah if it actually said Temple Mount instead of temple. I think translators should've helped me out with that one.

The Jews and Christians of today have no idea what "temple" means in the prophecies.

What does it mean to you?

It means my invisible created existence as the Word of the Lord. In other words, there's only two things going on, the visible and the invisible realms. The visible realm we thought was our reality is what deceived us of our true reality as invisible vibrations that physicists and cosmologists are now studying as the consciousness.

The temple of God is His thoughts where we all exist. This is what we'll be worshiping ( living ) for eternity.
airmax1227
Posts: 13,240
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
1/31/2015 9:56:02 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 1/31/2015 9:55:13 PM, Wylted wrote:
At 1/31/2015 9:52:55 PM, airmax1227 wrote:
At 1/31/2015 9:47:08 PM, Wylted wrote:
At 1/31/2015 9:43:38 PM, airmax1227 wrote:
At 1/31/2015 9:38:46 PM, Wylted wrote:
I'm kinda assuming that temple isn't used in as much of a generic sense in the Torah as in common usage, which may pose a problem but I can't be sure.

Temple specifically means the temple in Jerusalem - not a generic temple - but the specific temple.

The Temple was destroyed in the year 70, and all the remains of it is the wailing wall. The Dome of the Rock now sits on the temple mount - the holiest site in Judaism. So the temple no longer exists, and anything requiring the temple is no longer done.


Well it would be easier to digest the Torah if it actually said Temple Mount instead of temple. I think translators should've helped me out with that one.

haha fair enough... just for future reference, if you are ever referencing the temple in Judaic tradition, it's always going to be about THE temple. The only thing that you'd have to keep in mind is that there were 2 of them, one was destroyed and rebuilt, and Jewish traditional belief also holds that a third and final temple will be built when the messiah comes.

I'll get on that, and you know the world peace thing.

haha sounds good... good luck
Debate.org Moderator
Gentorev
Posts: 2,894
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
1/31/2015 9:59:51 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 1/31/2015 9:50:04 PM, bornofgod wrote:
At 1/31/2015 9:47:08 PM, Wylted wrote:
At 1/31/2015 9:43:38 PM, airmax1227 wrote:
At 1/31/2015 9:38:46 PM, Wylted wrote:
I'm kinda assuming that temple isn't used in as much of a generic sense in the Torah as in common usage, which may pose a problem but I can't be sure.

Temple specifically means the temple in Jerusalem - not a generic temple - but the specific temple.

The Temple was destroyed in the year 70, and all the remains of it is the wailing wall. The Dome of the Rock now sits on the temple mount - the holiest site in Judaism. So the temple no longer exists, and anything requiring the temple is no longer done.


Well it would be easier to digest the Torah if it actually said Temple Mount instead of temple. I think translators should've helped me out with that one.

The Jews and Christians of today have no idea what "temple" means in the prophecies.

Ah! But BOG reckons that he knows. So please reveal to us just what is meant in Malachi 3: 1; where it is written: "Then the Lord that you are looking for will suddenly come to his Temple."
airmax1227
Posts: 13,240
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
1/31/2015 10:01:11 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 1/31/2015 9:55:15 PM, bornofgod wrote:
At 1/31/2015 9:51:26 PM, Wylted wrote:
At 1/31/2015 9:50:04 PM, bornofgod wrote:
At 1/31/2015 9:47:08 PM, Wylted wrote:
At 1/31/2015 9:43:38 PM, airmax1227 wrote:
At 1/31/2015 9:38:46 PM, Wylted wrote:
I'm kinda assuming that temple isn't used in as much of a generic sense in the Torah as in common usage, which may pose a problem but I can't be sure.

Temple specifically means the temple in Jerusalem - not a generic temple - but the specific temple.

The Temple was destroyed in the year 70, and all the remains of it is the wailing wall. The Dome of the Rock now sits on the temple mount - the holiest site in Judaism. So the temple no longer exists, and anything requiring the temple is no longer done.


Well it would be easier to digest the Torah if it actually said Temple Mount instead of temple. I think translators should've helped me out with that one.

The Jews and Christians of today have no idea what "temple" means in the prophecies.

What does it mean to you?

It means my invisible created existence as the Word of the Lord. In other words, there's only two things going on, the visible and the invisible realms. The visible realm we thought was our reality is what deceived us of our true reality as invisible vibrations that physicists and cosmologists are now studying as the consciousness.

The temple of God is His thoughts where we all exist. This is what we'll be worshiping ( living ) for eternity.

That's certainly very interesting...

The OT also describes a literal, physical temple.

https://www.biblegateway.com...
Debate.org Moderator