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Present way of Allah Worship against Statues

dattaswami
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2/1/2015 5:32:15 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
Devotee: "One Muslim devotee says that the worship of Allah is far superior to the worship of statues. Please enlighten".

Swami: The P.G. Course is far superior to L.K.G. course. This does not mean that you should blame the L.K.G. course and praise the P.G. Course. One day you were also a student of that L.K.G. course. The only point here is that you should not stop at the level of first step (L.K.G.) and you should climb to reach the last step (P.G.). If you condemn the first step and remove it, all the upper steps including your last one will crumble down. This is very important aspect of the spiritual knowledge and if this is understood nobody criticizes anybody of his religion or other religion.

We have to take God in three ways.

1)The original God, Who is unimaginable without spatial dimensions, exists beyond the space. Even in your imagination, you cannot cross this space (cosmos) and reach its boundary since if you reach the boundary, you will touch the causal unimaginable God. Since you cannot touch the unimaginable God, you cannot reach the boundary of this space even in your imagination. Islam represents this concept by a wall, which is worshipped by them. The wall represents the boundary of the universe giving you the idea of unimaginable God. Allah is represented by such wall. Hence, this concept of Islam must be very much appreciated. But, the difficulty in this is that such worship or even meditation by imagination becomes impossible since such original God is beyond even imagination as stated in the Gita (Avyaktaahi gatir duhkham...). Here also such unimaginable Allah is not meditated upon. Only a wall, a representative model of Allah is meditated upon. But, the merit in the representative model is that it is indicating the original God.

2)Such unimaginable God enters a medium and gets Himself identified with it like the current is identified with the metallic wire in which it flows. Such medium must have awareness in order to preach the spiritual knowledge. Such medium may be energetic form for the sake of the departed human beings existing in energetic bodies in the upper world. Brahma or Vishnu or Shiva or Father of Heaven is such energetic incarnation. For the sake of human beings here, the unimaginable God gets identified with a human form in this world. Rama, Krishna, Mohammed, etc., are such human incarnations. If you call the Father of Heaven as Allah, such energetic incarnation is relevant to the departed souls in the upper world only and not relevant to us in this world. For you in this world, Mohammed is relevant but you do not accept a human being as God. Of course, Mohammed gave this concept and His view was totally different and was essential in His time. In His time, His precede Jesus was crucified by the ignorant people. To save the human incarnation from such danger only, the concept of human incarnation was temporarily rejected by Him. Now, such danger is not there.

Hence, you can worship Mohammed as Allah. A wiser worship will be to worship the present human incarnation in your religion as Allah since Mohammed was a past human incarnation. This type of worship of energetic or human incarnation is called as direct worship since the original unimaginable God is directly present in that medium. Leaving such direct worship of the contemporary human incarnation due to ego and jealousy towards a co-human form, people are worshipping the original God resulting in utter failure or worshipping the statues representing the energetic incarnations or past human incarnations. All these ways are either useless or unnecessary if you can conquer your ego and jealousy towards co-human form and catch the contemporary human incarnation to worship it as Allah.

The conclusion is that if you are in the P.G. Level, search for the contemporary human incarnation in your religion and worship it as Allah. If you are in L.K.G., you worship the wall as Allah. If you are somewhere in the middle level, you can worship any good respectable elder person or the entire cosmos as Allah. The highest level is only the P.G., which is the direct worship of Allah. All other levels are the indirect worship of Allah, which are also not wrong but belong to lower level. L.K.G. is lower than P.G. but it does not mean that P.G. only is correct and L.K.G. is wrong. At the end, I like to point out that the worship of the wall is no way different from the worship of the statue since both are finite inert representative models of matter and energy. By this if you are criticizing the majority of Hinduism, unknowingly you are also criticizing majority of Islam also simultaneously!

posted by: surya (disciple of Swamiji)
www.universal-spirituality.org
uncung
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2/1/2015 5:59:02 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 2/1/20
15 5:32:15 AM, dattaswami wrote:
Devotee: "One Muslim devotee says that the worship of Allah is far superior to the worship of statues. Please enlighten".

Swami: The P.G. Course is far superior to L.K.G. course. This does not mean that you should blame the L.K.G. course and praise the P.G. Course. One day you were also a student of that L.K.G. course. The only point here is that you should not stop at the level of first step (L.K.G.) and you should climb to reach the last step (P.G.). If you condemn the first step and remove it, all the upper steps including your last one will crumble down. This is very important aspect of the spiritual knowledge and if this is understood nobody criticizes anybody of his religion or other religion.

We have to take God in three ways.

1)The original God, Who is unimaginable without spatial dimensions, exists beyond the space. Even in your imagination, you cannot cross this space (cosmos) and reach its boundary since if you reach the boundary, you will touch the causal unimaginable God. Since you cannot touch the unimaginable God, you cannot reach the boundary of this space even in your imagination. Islam represents this concept by a wall, which is worshipped by them. The wall represents the boundary of the universe giving you the idea of unimaginable God. Allah is represented by such wall. Hence, this concept of Islam must be very much appreciated. But, the difficulty in this is that such worship or even meditation by imagination becomes impossible since such original God is beyond even imagination as stated in the Gita (Avyaktaahi gatir duhkham...). Here also such unimaginable Allah is not meditated upon. Only a wall, a representative model of Allah is meditated upon. But, the merit in the representative model is that it is indicating the original God.

2)Such unimaginable God enters a medium and gets Himself identified with it like the current is identified with the metallic wire in which it flows. Such medium must have awareness in order to preach the spiritual knowledge. Such medium may be energetic form for the sake of the departed human beings existing in energetic bodies in the upper world. Brahma or Vishnu or Shiva or Father of Heaven is such energetic incarnation. For the sake of human beings here, the unimaginable God gets identified with a human form in this world. Rama, Krishna, Mohammed, etc., are such human incarnations. If you call the Father of Heaven as Allah, such energetic incarnation is relevant to the departed souls in the upper world only and not relevant to us in this world. For you in this world, Mohammed is relevant but you do not accept a human being as God. Of course, Mohammed gave this concept and His view was totally different and was essential in His time. In His time, His precede Jesus was crucified by the ignorant people. To save the human incarnation from such danger only, the concept of human incarnation was temporarily rejected by Him. Now, such danger is not there.

Hence, you can worship Mohammed as Allah. A wiser worship will be to worship the present human incarnation in your religion as Allah since Mohammed was a past human incarnation. This type of worship of energetic or human incarnation is called as direct worship since the original unimaginable God is directly present in that medium. Leaving such direct worship of the contemporary human incarnation due to ego and jealousy towards a co-human form, people are worshipping the original God resulting in utter failure or worshipping the statues representing the energetic incarnations or past human incarnations. All these ways are either useless or unnecessary if you can conquer your ego and jealousy towards co-human form and catch the contemporary human incarnation to worship it as Allah.

The conclusion is that if you are in the P.G. Level, search for the contemporary human incarnation in your religion and worship it as Allah. If you are in L.K.G., you worship the wall as Allah. If you are somewhere in the middle level, you can worship any good respectable elder person or the entire cosmos as Allah. The highest level is only the P.G., which is the direct worship of Allah. All other levels are the indirect worship of Allah, which are also not wrong but belong to lower level. L.K.G. is lower than P.G. but it does not mean that P.G. only is correct and L.K.G. is wrong. At the end, I like to point out that the worship of the wall is no way different from the worship of the statue since both are finite inert representative models of matter and energy. By this if you are criticizing the majority of Hinduism, unknowingly you are also criticizing majority of Islam also simultaneously!

posted by: surya (disciple of Swamiji)
www.universal-spirituality.org
WE Dont worship anyone beside Allah. There is no either God incarnation in islamic teaching.
dattaswami
Posts: 322
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2/1/2015 6:39:36 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 2/1/2015 5:59:02 AM, uncung wrote:
WE Dont worship anyone beside Allah. There is no either God incarnation in islamic teaching.

Reply:

Prophet and Incarnation "

When a person says that He was sent by God as a messenger and that He has brought the message of the Lord, again the same problem appears. When God is giving the message to that person, nobody has seen it. That person is the single witness. Now the only alternative left in order to believe that the Lord Himself gave the knowledge, is that we have to test the knowledge.

Had we seen the transfer of the knowledge from God to that person with our eyes, we need not have tested that knowledge. It must definitely have been divine knowledge. If we have to believe a statement of that person without the simultaneous universal perception, then we have to believe even a fraud person who utters the same statement.

If you give us a piece of metal and say that is gold, since God gave it, we cannot believe it. Either we must have seen God giving it to you or we must analyze the metal. Moreover the knowledge is not like the piece of metal, which will not change by transfer. When a teacher explains a concept to somebody and asks him to deliver it to his students, it cannot be transferred as it is.

The transfer of knowledge consists of not only the concept but also the explanation. The concept might have been transferred but nobody other than that original teacher can give the same way of explanation of the concept by which the concept pierces into the heart. Therefore to propagate the divine knowledge, the Lord Himself comes down in a human form. Arjuna said the same in the Gita "Tvadanyah"" which means that except the Lord, nobody can preach the divine knowledge and clarify all spiritual doubts.
uncung
Posts: 3,431
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2/1/2015 7:37:47 PM
Posted: 1 year ago

Prophet and Incarnation "

When a person says that He was sent by God as a messenger and that He has brought the message of the Lord, again the same problem appears. When God is giving the message to that person, nobody has seen it. That person is the single witness. Now the only alternative left in order to believe that the Lord Himself gave the knowledge, is that we have to test the knowledge.

Had we seen the transfer of the knowledge from God to that person with our eyes, we need not have tested that knowledge. It must definitely have been divine knowledge. If we have to believe a statement of that person without the simultaneous universal perception, then we have to believe even a fraud person who utters the same statement.

If you give us a piece of metal and say that is gold, since God gave it, we cannot believe it. Either we must have seen God giving it to you or we must analyze the metal. Moreover the knowledge is not like the piece of metal, which will not change by transfer. When a teacher explains a concept to somebody and asks him to deliver it to his students, it cannot be transferred as it is.

The transfer of knowledge consists of not only the concept but also the explanation. The concept might have been transferred but nobody other than that original teacher can give the same way of explanation of the concept by which the concept pierces into the heart. Therefore to propagate the divine knowledge, the Lord Himself comes down in a human form. Arjuna said the same in the Gita "Tvadanyah"" which means that except the Lord, nobody can preach the divine knowledge and clarify all spiritual doubts.

I see.
celestialtorahteacher
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2/1/2015 8:47:38 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
WE Dont worship anyone beside Allah. There is no either God incarnation in islamic teaching.

You lie, uncung. You worship, idolize Muhammad as the same thing as Allah, there is no difference that you can show us, is there. You can't show us Allah without showing us Muhammad first so Allah is indistinguishable from Muhammad. I am Jewish and we never called God Allah or heard from God any call to Gentile Arabs to represent God. Yet your johnny-come-lately Gentile Arab prophet used our Jewish religion to base his religion upon, or again, do you hold a lie about that because you Idol tells you different? Historical science doesn't lie but men do, especially ones starting religions with other people's religious ideas.

You, like all Muhammad idolators cannot tell anyone there is no God but Allah and have any more proof of this claim that fundamentalist Bible thumpers have of their claims about Jesus, you guys are both sets of paper and ink idol worshipers confusing God with paper and ink objects.

When you, uncung, have an original spiritual experience of your own, then maybe you can speak about religion, God and prophets. But until that happens all you are is a human tape recorder pressed on "PLAY" Muhammad's Tape over and over and over again, and no matter how many times you play it, its still always wrong as it is man-made ideology trying to pretend to be eternal spiritual knowledge and instruction. Thieves just are not the masters of the houses or caravans they steal stuff from, even ancient scrolls and books that they later cobble together and pretend to claim as their own. Thieves get caught out and Muhammad got caught out stealing Gnostic Christian gospel stories to add to his warped violent Quran ideas wanting to make Jesus into another violent Muhammadan clone, i.e. still another attempted theft of other people's religion.

Uncung, it doesn't matter how many millions of ignorant people believe a bad idea. Sooner or later God changes their minds or why are we not worshiping Zeus or Brahma or Osiris? Religious fascism in Judaism has gone by the board as we Jews know that there's no way going backwards to violent Mosaic Laws which if practiced would land a Jew in prison, but you Muhammadan clones haven't learned this truth, that God evolves human societies and uses prophets to bring in needed new information for spiritual development. So you're stuck with your phony religion thief and bad religious ideas. Oh yes, lot's of pretty words in the Quran but any chain is only as strong as its weakest link and the Quran is filled with weak links, weak in science, weak in history, weak morality, far too many satanic verses and I'm not talking about ones about high flying cranes either but about verses in the Quran that are enacted now on TV screens with each enactment sending the signal farther and farther to non-Muhummandans, never to let this atrocious violent crap into their lives or societies.

I do feel sorry for you being a Muhammadan idolator and going down in flames with your idol's demise as anyone with any brains would ever want to emulate or listen to, thieves and child abusers and meglomaniac totalitarians not welcome as prophets of God in the West, but you guys are so far behind intellectually about democracy and human rights that you can't see what the problem is with your fascist religion. But when you have your god ordering beheadings I think you shouldn't wonder why Westerners hate Muhammad more and more each day, now you've got the powerful nation of Japan pissed off with Muhammad madmen.
uncung
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2/1/2015 9:31:12 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
We dont worship Prophet Muhammad nor other anyone beside Allah or as His partner.
Oppositely we pray for Prophet Muhammad in order to Allah grants him with a best position in heaven.
In case of summon Allah, hebrew also call their God as Elloh while Aramaic as Alaha, sound both very close by Allah in Arabic. Seems you are ignorant in your faith, aren't you?
celestialtorahteacher
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2/1/2015 10:16:55 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
Can't argue with someone who doesn't understand basic logic. Logic informs us who are not brainwashed five times daily like you, that there is no way at all any non-Muhammad believer can tell the difference between Muhammad's Allah and Muhammad's words about Allah. None. You can repeat your mantras forever but it will never erase what you don't have to offer, which is any proof at all that Muhammad's Allah is separate from Muhammad the man. Can you give us any proof that Allah is a god separate from Muhammad as Muhammad's Allah isn't found in the Scriptures of ancient Near Eastern peoples except moon god worshipers around Sinai. This is why fundamentalist Christians always nail you Muhammadan idolators as moon god worshipers, because history records "Allah" worship at at Sinai where the ancient moon god, Sin, was worshiped. Both Judaism and Islam retain moon god worship practice, e.g. their calendars are not sun but moon month based.

So while Allah may be found historically worshiped at Sinai region, elsewhere God was called EL or Yah or Shamash or Chemosh, Hadad, and a host of other names Baal being common as "Lord" god. Allah just was never universal enough to really be identified with EL who was well-known throughout the Near East from Sumeria, Babylonia to Egypt. Variation of EL's name can include "AL" as "God" but in identification of behavior Allah is almost exactly like the Jewish Yahweh, i.e. another war god who has no comprehension of why the real God Most High desires peace and not war, that slogan being one of the oldest ones about EL in existence. Look at the ancient Canaanites and see they were mostly traders and not interested in conquering their neighbors so much as trading with them in peace. But Abrahamics following their war god make war on their neighbors and create religions of war with war challenge slogans like "Hear, O Israel, our God is one." Or the Muhammad rip-off, with the man god Muhammad added. Both are phony as hell as "Israel" was derived from ancient Hebrews stealing the top gods of Egypt for their tribal identity, ISIS (moon) RA (sun) EL (Saturn), what a joke, "our god is one"! Same joke with Muhammad being added to the Muhammad godhead indistinguishable from the man Muhammad.
celestialtorahteacher
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2/1/2015 10:24:34 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
Uncung, poopoo, and all the rest of you Muhammadan idol worshipers. You don't have a real religion of God. You have religious ripoff of our Jewish Scriptures and these are out of date now even with us. Why not grow up and stop being thumbsucking babies on the tit of Muhammad? He's a man and his boobs don't have any milk in them. You need to become men on your own steam and stop being lazy believers using another man's ideas to replace your own relationship with God. You are afraid to go on your merits with God and use Muhammad as a crutch and a whip to make you believe by coercion, that constant threat of hell and damnation to eternal torture that Muhammad used to scare "belief" into Muhammadans. But what happens when the guns are taken away from the guards and the prison doors opened? The prisoners go free.
uncung
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2/1/2015 10:54:18 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
Islam is the true way of brainwashing since it leads us to gain salvation and paradise.
Prophet Muhammad is one of many prophets that Allah sent to mankind.
We dont worship any prophets let alone prophet muhammad just like christians treat their prophet, Isa.
Yahweh name is an invented name in medieval era. That's why you will not able to find this kind of name be written in your bible.
Our God is one, i.e. Allah the Lord of Abraham, Jacob, Moses and soon. So it is not worth you call us the idol worshipers yet we worship Him alone not any else Gods.
celestialtorahteacher
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2/1/2015 11:20:25 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
Abrahamic idol worshipers worship man-made words about God and history that are proven falsehoods by science of archeology and history. You are a Muhammad idol worshiper so when your idol tells you to worship Abraham, and Moses, and all of our JEWISH prophets, not a Gentile among them, you do that without ever thinking because you accept anything your idol tells you is true as truth and do anything your idol tells you to do. Which is never question the idol or face everlasting torture, typical use of fear as a means of making people "believe".

Unfortunately for you, you idol was in the 7th Century so all his information about the world is limited to 7th Century knowledge and they didn't know, you don't know, that the Bible stories have been exposed now by archeological science as complete fabrications of Jewish history. "Abraham", "Moses", "David" and all the rest fabricated people to serve tribal political goals of melding three different Canaanite tribes into one "Israel". Three gods into one, Isis, Ra, EL, become "Israel" "our God is one!" Crock of baloney that Muhammad fell for. No Abraham ever existed. He and Sarah and Hagar are stolen from Brahmin religion where Brahma = Abraham (Hebrew BRM=BRM) and Sarasvati = Sarah, and Ghaggar = Hagar. Muhammad keeps you ignorant of real history like most Abrahamic believers are so kept even today. But there it is. Abraham was fictitious and all the Abrahamic religions based on myths mistaken as history. When you go to school, uncung, in the West, come back to us after you've learned some comparative religion facts about the origin of your religion in Hebrew myths of origin, not real history. Myths cannot produce spiritual authority so your idol has none, as neither do Jews anymore or Pauline Christians, you all are history now, walking dead who heads have been whacked off by God's science men, i.e., the origins of Abrahamic religion caught out as fraudulent history and only myth-making typical of ethnic groups. Oh yes, God is with us Jews still but the old religious basis is toast now and we need to move on to new revelation from God that has happened in our times.
dattaswami
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2/2/2015 9:25:42 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 2/2/2015 12:16:39 AM, uncung wrote:
Which God should we worship then?

How different religions formed "

The Lord is universal but the human beings in the universe differ in their attitudes. The same single Lord adopts a different procedure in a different region and such a different procedure appears as a different religion. A few people criticize the Lord of other religions. You do not criticize the Lord of your own religion.

The external behavior of the Lord differs due to different internal and external behaviors of the human beings in this universe. The external form, dress, language, food habits and culture of human beings differ from one region to the other.

Accordingly the external form, dress, food habits, language and culture of the Lord also differ to suit that particular region. The internal Lord and the internal essence of the same Lord is one and the same in His different human incarnations, which have come in different regions or religions.
dattaswami
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2/2/2015 9:30:02 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 2/1/2015 10:54:18 PM, uncung wrote:
Islam is the true way of brainwashing since it leads us to gain salvation and paradise.
Prophet Muhammad is one of many prophets that Allah sent to mankind.
We dont worship any prophets let alone prophet muhammad just like christians treat their prophet, Isa.
Yahweh name is an invented name in medieval era. That's why you will not able to find this kind of name be written in your bible.
Our God is one, i.e. Allah the Lord of Abraham, Jacob, Moses and soon. So it is not worth you call us the idol worshipers yet we worship Him alone not any else Gods.

Reply:

Why God expressed in different forms in Hinduism?

Swamiji:

In the universe, God expressed Himself in single form in every religion. In Christianity, there is only one expressed form i.e. Jesus. In Islam, there is only one expressed form i.e. Allah or Mohammad. But in Hindu religion, there are different expressed forms of God like Vishnu, Shiva etc. Diversity in forms of God is only first point in Hindu religion. Next point is unity in all these forms that also exists in Hindu religion. People criticize Hindu religion showing only first point. Why don"t they see second point? Concept is not complete by the first point.

Now, question comes, "Why should there be diversity at all & make unnecessary effort to bring unity? Why Hinduism is not having single form of God as in Christianity or Islam?" All right. Let us assume that there is single form in Hindu religion & let us assume that Vishnu is that single form. Then, does this solve problem when you take entire world? Now, there are 3 forms of God i.e. Jesus, Allah or Mohammad & Vishnu. Now, if you take world as your system for study, is there single form of God for entire world? Even if we solve the problem at micro level i.e. Hinduism, but same problem is appearing at macro level i.e. world.

Solution at macro level is very important than at the micro level because in India, wars never took place between the followers of Vishnu and the followers of Shiva. But in the world, wars have taken place and are still taking place between the followers of Islam, Christianity, Hinduism etc. Problem at the micro level never disturbed peace. But, problem at macro level always disturbed world peace.

To use medicine on human beings at macro level, it is first tested in laboratory on micro system like rabbit. When medicine is proved in case of rabbit, it is administered to all human beings. Similarly, concept developed in unity of various forms of God in Hinduism should be taken totally by all religions in world.
dattaswami
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2/2/2015 9:32:06 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 2/1/2015 8:47:38 PM, celestialtorahteacher wrote:
WE Dont worship anyone beside Allah. There is no either God incarnation in islamic teaching.

Reply:

Is it possible for God to come in Human form?

Swamiji:

How can one argue that the Lord cannot come down in the human form? If He is incapable of doing so, He cannot be omnipotent. One need not argue that though the Lord is capable, there is no necessity of such human form. You may not have that necessity. Are you the only human being on this whole earth? Have you taken the opinion of all the human beings to say like this? There are several devotees who belong to Nivrutti (path of liberation) and desire for the Lord in human form to see (Darsanam), to touch (Sparsanam), to hear the knowledge and clarify their doubts (Sambhashanam) and to live along with the Lord (Sahavasa) for achieving these three for a long time. The main purpose is preaching the divine knowledge and clarifying the doubts.

The statues or photos or energetic forms or space cannot preach the knowledge and that is against the universal observation (perception). Preaching of the knowledge by the human forms of the Lord like Krishna, Jesus etc is observed universally and accepted perception. Such universal observation is according to the rules of the nature. When something is possible through a simple way by following the rules of the nature, is it not foolish to do the same simple thing in the complicated way violating the rules of the nature?

When water is available in plenty from the tap, what is the necessity of producing water by forcing Hydrogen and Oxygen to react with the help of an electric arc? To show the production of the water by this reaction, this experiment can be performed once but not every time whenever water is required. To show the superpower of the Lord a statue or a photo or the energetic form or even formless space may talk once.

But to preach the spiritual knowledge continuously, the Lord need not talk continuously through statues or photos or energetic forms or space. Some devotee might have experienced such superpower in some place and in sometime. Such experience is not supported by simultaneous universal observation.

When you are seeing the moon in the sky, others are also observing the same moon simultaneously. This is required to authorize any experience. When this authorization is absent, your experience may be true or might have been due to some psychological disorder. The existence of such psychic experience is also observed in this world. Therefore we cannot isolate the possibility of these two cases in your experience

Therefore there is a necessity for the human form of the Lord and since the Lord is omnipotent, He is coming down in the human form. There cannot be any further argument on this point. I know you are worried that the Lord is modified into the human body and thus the unchangeable Lord has to be changed. Do not worry about this point, because the Lord is never modified into the human body. He only entered into the human body. The word "Asritam" in the verse of Gita "Manushim tanumasritam" means the entry of the Lord into the human body and not the modification of the Lord as a human body. Lord Krishna in Gita clarified this in the verse "Avyaktam Vyaktimapannam".
dattaswami
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2/3/2015 10:56:48 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 2/2/2015 9:56:59 AM, uncung wrote:
But prophet Muhammad is not a God nor incarnated God.

Identity mark to recognize human incarnation of God ...

Real characteristic properties of the Lord as declared by Veda are the Special Knowledge (Prajnana), the Love (Rasa or Prema) & Bliss (Ananda). Veda also says that these three characteristics must be experienced by others if the possessor is having really those characteristics.

The characteristic property of the fire is heat. Any person, who is near fire, should experience heat and then only we can say that fire is hot. Similarly, Lord in human form must make others to experience the Jnana, Prema and Ananda. Veda says "Esha Hyeva Anandayati", which means that God creates Bliss in the hearts of others. Lord should not be recognized merely by miracles because even demons performed these miracles. Miracles are only associated property like jewels.
uncung
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2/3/2015 9:10:56 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 2/3/2015 10:56:48 AM, dattaswami wrote:
At 2/2/2015 9:56:59 AM, uncung wrote:
But prophet Muhammad is not a God nor incarnated God.

Identity mark to recognize human incarnation of God ...

Real characteristic properties of the Lord as declared by Veda are the Special Knowledge (Prajnana), the Love (Rasa or Prema) & Bliss (Ananda). Veda also says that these three characteristics must be experienced by others if the possessor is having really those characteristics.

The characteristic property of the fire is heat. Any person, who is near fire, should experience heat and then only we can say that fire is hot. Similarly, Lord in human form must make others to experience the Jnana, Prema and Ananda. Veda says "Esha Hyeva Anandayati", which means that God creates Bliss in the hearts of others. Lord should not be recognized merely by miracles because even demons performed these miracles. Miracles are only associated property like jewels.

I see.
dattaswami
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2/4/2015 10:21:43 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 2/3/2015 9:10:56 PM, uncung wrote:
I see.

Necessity of incarnation ... (Message of Shri Datta Swami)

When you read scriptures, which are discourses of past human incarnations, you will get so many doubts demanding clarification. If original Lord is not available, we have to depend on other fellow human beings for clarifications. Suppose you study a correspondence course. When you get a doubt, you have to depend on your classmate, who is studying the course similarly. He is not competent to clarify your doubts & you will be poisoned by his wrong interpretations.

Suppose you study same course in a college & lecturer explains in the class. Whenever you get a doubt, you can ask him then & there & you will surely get correct interpretation at correct moment. The clarification is important at correct moment because without clarification latter part of the lecture may not be understood or may be misunderstood. Such a facility does not exist with past human incarnations & past scriptures.

The present generation is very much blessed because of the facility of computer technology. You can clarify your doubts through this computer system without any strain of traveling to the human incarnation in person. All divine preachers in this world are in contact with God and are doing the divine preaching to various levels of devotees. Their preachings may be mixed with some ignorance and it is not their fault because such mixing with ignorance in various proportions is required for various lower levels of human beings.

The complete and pure knowledge without any trace of ignorance can be grasped only by a very few highest devotees. The number of advanced research students studying under a professor is always very small. So the direct human incarnation is recognized by a very few top level devotees only.

posted by: surya (disciple of Swamiji)
www.universal-spirituality.org
Harikrish
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2/4/2015 12:12:29 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 2/1/2015 6:39:36 AM, dattaswami wrote:
At 2/1/2015 5:59:02 AM, uncung wrote:
WE Dont worship anyone beside Allah. There is no either God incarnation in islamic teaching.

Reply:

Prophet and Incarnation "

When a person says that He was sent by God as a messenger and that He has brought the message of the Lord, again the same problem appears. When God is giving the message to that person, nobody has seen it. That person is the single witness. Now the only alternative left in order to believe that the Lord Himself gave the knowledge, is that we have to test the knowledge.

Had we seen the transfer of the knowledge from God to that person with our eyes, we need not have tested that knowledge. It must definitely have been divine knowledge. If we have to believe a statement of that person without the simultaneous universal perception, then we have to believe even a fraud person who utters the same statement.

If you give us a piece of metal and say that is gold, since God gave it, we cannot believe it. Either we must have seen God giving it to you or we must analyze the metal. Moreover the knowledge is not like the piece of metal, which will not change by transfer. When a teacher explains a concept to somebody and asks him to deliver it to his students, it cannot be transferred as it is.

The transfer of knowledge consists of not only the concept but also the explanation. The concept might have been transferred but nobody other than that original teacher can give the same way of explanation of the concept by which the concept pierces into the heart. Therefore to propagate the divine knowledge, the Lord Himself comes down in a human form. Arjuna said the same in the Gita "Tvadanyah"" which means that except the Lord, nobody can preach the divine knowledge and clarify all spiritual doubts.

Swamiji, what can you tell us about people like member bornofgod who claims God is speaking through him and that he is a saint. He has neither concept nor an explanation for his delusions. He calls God a thought, a vibration and the world is all an illusion in the mind of God. That is contrary to the world being illusive to man as in maya. Bornofgod is a recovering alcoholic. Should his delusional condition be seen as further punishment for his past decadent life? Can alcohol help you transcend to a higher plane or has the wrong spirit taken control in his case.
dattaswami
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2/5/2015 8:26:11 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 2/4/2015 12:12:29 PM, Harikrish wrote:
Swamiji, what can you tell us about people like member bornofgod who claims God is speaking through him and that he is a saint. He has neither concept nor an explanation for his delusions. He calls God a thought, a vibration and the world is all an illusion in the mind of God. That is contrary to the world being illusive to man as in maya. Bornofgod is a recovering alcoholic. Should his delusional condition be seen as further punishment for his past decadent life? Can alcohol help you transcend to a higher plane or has the wrong spirit taken control in his case.

Reply:

first of all, my earlier post gives the identity marks to recognize the incarnation of God. Those have to be fulfilled.

God is the base of the world ... (Message of Shri Datta Swami)

Even though God is the base of the world, the world does not touch Him as the man touches the cot. It is possible in the case of a daydreamer. A city imagined by him exists in him and he is the base for that city. Let the city and the people in that city burn. The daydreamer is not burnt.

Like this the world is based on God but the changes in the world cannot affect. Either the changes in the inert objects or the changes in the human beings cannot affect God. Hence, any inert object or any human being (except incarnation like Krishna, Jesus, Prophet etc.) can neither be God nor does God exist in them. They are based on the God and they are not present in the God also.

Responsibility behind Human Incarnation ... (Message of Shri Datta Swami)

Everybody wants to become Jesus or Krishna to get divine fame in society in similar way without such cruel death at end. Such desire is hidden in subconscious state of all devotees even without their knowledge. Today there is freedom of expression of spiritual thought & there is constitutional protection & hence preacher need not fear for crucifixion. Hence, now, above desire is very strong.

But one must remember that Jesus allowed crucifixion from view of single point that is to suffer for sins of His people (Refer meaning of Emmanuel), who are deserving & to save them from sins. In Bible, it is clearly said that He came to save His people & not all people. Now, can you suffer like Jesus for sake of sins of your closest deserving devotees?

Perhaps, now, your above desire is subsided! Powers are always associated with responsibilities. However, if any devotee wants position of human incarnation in spite of awareness of responsibilities, there is open chance for every human being to become human incarnation. First you must concentrate on correct divine knowledge, through which you must receive a clear-cut picture of whole procedure. You must know that you are not already God since God is not ancestral property that is already given to you without any effort as felt by Advaitin.

posted by: surya (disciple of Swamiji)
Harikrish
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2/5/2015 9:50:57 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 2/5/2015 8:26:11 AM, dattaswami wrote:
At 2/4/2015 12:12:29 PM, Harikrish wrote:
Swamiji, what can you tell us about people like member bornofgod who claims God is speaking through him and that he is a saint. He has neither concept nor an explanation for his delusions. He calls God a thought, a vibration and the world is all an illusion in the mind of God. That is contrary to the world being illusive to man as in maya. Bornofgod is a recovering alcoholic. Should his delusional condition be seen as further punishment for his past decadent life? Can alcohol help you transcend to a higher plane or has the wrong spirit taken control in his case.

Reply:

first of all, my earlier post gives the identity marks to recognize the incarnation of God. Those have to be fulfilled.

God is the base of the world ... (Message of Shri Datta Swami)

Even though God is the base of the world, the world does not touch Him as the man touches the cot. It is possible in the case of a daydreamer. A city imagined by him exists in him and he is the base for that city. Let the city and the people in that city burn. The daydreamer is not burnt.

Like this the world is based on God but the changes in the world cannot affect. Either the changes in the inert objects or the changes in the human beings cannot affect God. Hence, any inert object or any human being (except incarnation like Krishna, Jesus, Prophet etc.) can neither be God nor does God exist in them. They are based on the God and they are not present in the God also.

Responsibility behind Human Incarnation ... (Message of Shri Datta Swami)

Everybody wants to become Jesus or Krishna to get divine fame in society in similar way without such cruel death at end. Such desire is hidden in subconscious state of all devotees even without their knowledge. Today there is freedom of expression of spiritual thought & there is constitutional protection & hence preacher need not fear for crucifixion. Hence, now, above desire is very strong.

But one must remember that Jesus allowed crucifixion from view of single point that is to suffer for sins of His people (Refer meaning of Emmanuel), who are deserving & to save them from sins. In Bible, it is clearly said that He came to save His people & not all people. Now, can you suffer like Jesus for sake of sins of your closest deserving devotees?

Perhaps, now, your above desire is subsided! Powers are always associated with responsibilities. However, if any devotee wants position of human incarnation in spite of awareness of responsibilities, there is open chance for every human being to become human incarnation. First you must concentrate on correct divine knowledge, through which you must receive a clear-cut picture of whole procedure. You must know that you are not already God since God is not ancestral property that is already given to you without any effort as felt by Advaitin.

posted by: surya (disciple of Swamiji)

Thank you Swamiji.
You mentioned Jesus. Is it possible that Jesus's destiny was prophesied 700 years before his arrival? Jesus must have been suicidal because he pointed to the people and his disciples that his death was imminent because it was already prophesied. Jesus believed unless he was killed there would be no second coming or the new kingdom on earth that he was to create. So killing him should be perfectly justified...it was to lead to better things.
But it did not lead to better things. The Jews were slaughtered shortly after for rebelling and their holiest temple destroyed. Why would the world still believe a lunatic and liar that he was The Lord.
Do the Hindu sages who hold a deeper wisdom of the world have an explanation for the reliance in prophesies centuries apart when reincarnations are easier to prove.
dattaswami
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2/5/2015 10:56:23 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 2/5/2015 9:50:57 AM, Harikrish wrote:
Thank you Swamiji.
You mentioned Jesus. Is it possible that Jesus's destiny was prophesied 700 years before his arrival? Jesus must have been suicidal because he pointed to the people and his disciples that his death was imminent because it was already prophesied. Jesus believed unless he was killed there would be no second coming or the new kingdom on earth that he was to create. So killing him should be perfectly justified...it was to lead to better things.
But it did not lead to better things. The Jews were slaughtered shortly after for rebelling and their holiest temple destroyed. Why would the world still believe a lunatic and liar that he was The Lord.
Do the Hindu sages who hold a deeper wisdom of the world have an explanation for the reliance in prophesies centuries apart when reincarnations are easier to prove.

Reply:

Essence of Jesus Preaching --- Kingdom of Lord

To recognize God, then to recognize God as the King of this creation and then recognizing His ultimate underlying hidden administration in the entire creation is the essence of spiritual knowledge. We recognize the Government and its administration in this world. It is clear because it is visible to the eyes. But God and His administration are invisible. Invisible does not mean non-existent. This world is filled with cosmic energy, which is invisible. That does not mean cosmic energy does not exist.

Experiencing the administration of Lord "

You can experience the administration of God in every corner of your life. His administration is applied to both living and non-living beings of the creation. The non-living Sun, wind etc., move constantly following the rules of God only. That invisible God comes as visible human incarnation and proves all this. When Jesus ordered the storm in the sea subsided. The plants, birds and animals and all the human beings are under His control only. When Jesus told a tree to die, the tree died. Jesus was controlling the sheep and thus He controls animals and birds.

The human beings are atheists, normal human devotees and real devotees. He also controls the atheists. The disciple of Jesus cut the ear of a soldier who came to arrest. But Jesus attached the ear in the proper place. Thus His enemies are also under His control. The second type, normal devotees worship God for solving their worldly problems. They were also controlled by Him, when He cured their diseases etc., He saved the highest real devotees by suffering on the Cross. Thus, He proved Himself to be the controller of all the non-living and living beings. This means that He is controller of the entire creation.

To recognize such controlling administration in the entire world is recognition of His kingdom. People thought that His kingdom is somewhere in the heaven, which is above the sky. Jesus said that His kingdom is coming to the earth. It means that the human beings on the earth have started recognizing His kingdom on the earth, which already exists. There is no place, which is not in His kingdom. There is no king except the human incarnation like Jesus. He is the king of kings. Even the Satan is also an employee in His kingdom. This creation is created by Him for His entertainment.

In a cinema, not only the hero is remunerated but also the villain. Satan is used to test the devotees through his attractions. Thus Satan is required in the spiritual effort of the human being. In answering a multiple-choice question, there are three wrong answers along with one correct answer. The three wrong answers represent Satan, which appear more correct and attract the mind. The power of discrimination of the student becomes more significant in presence of such wrong answers only. What is the significance of the happiness without misery? Nothing and none can oppose the Lord. Satan is required for His divine game.

posted by: surya (disciple of Swamiji)
www.universal-spirituality.org
DanneJeRusse
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2/5/2015 11:12:23 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 2/5/2015 10:56:23 AM, dattaswami wrote:

To recognize God, then to recognize God as the King of this creation and then recognizing His ultimate underlying hidden administration in the entire creation is the essence of spiritual knowledge. We recognize the Government and its administration in this world. It is clear because it is visible to the eyes. But God and His administration are invisible. Invisible does not mean non-existent. This world is filled with cosmic energy, which is invisible. That does not mean cosmic energy does not exist.

That's because energy is detectable, measurable and understandable, which does not in any way the same thing as a God, which is both invisible, undetectable, unmeasurable, hence not understandable by anyone.

The "invisible" argument is a fallacy.

Experiencing the administration of Lord "

You can experience the administration of God in every corner of your life. His administration is applied to both living and non-living beings of the creation. The non-living Sun, wind etc., move constantly following the rules of God only. That invisible God comes as visible human incarnation and proves all this. When Jesus ordered the storm in the sea subsided. The plants, birds and animals and all the human beings are under His control only. When Jesus told a tree to die, the tree died. Jesus was controlling the sheep and thus He controls animals and birds.

Sorry, but the sun, wind, etc. move due to the physical laws of nature, which have nothing to do with any gods.

The human beings are atheists, normal human devotees and real devotees. He also controls the atheists. The disciple of Jesus cut the ear of a soldier who came to arrest. But Jesus attached the ear in the proper place. Thus His enemies are also under His control. The second type, normal devotees worship God for solving their worldly problems. They were also controlled by Him, when He cured their diseases etc., He saved the highest real devotees by suffering on the Cross. Thus, He proved Himself to be the controller of all the non-living and living beings. This means that He is controller of the entire creation.

LOL. That's quite the silly fantasy you have going there.

To recognize such controlling administration in the entire world is recognition of His kingdom. People thought that His kingdom is somewhere in the heaven, which is above the sky. Jesus said that His kingdom is coming to the earth. It means that the human beings on the earth have started recognizing His kingdom on the earth, which already exists. There is no place, which is not in His kingdom. There is no king except the human incarnation like Jesus. He is the king of kings. Even the Satan is also an employee in His kingdom. This creation is created by Him for His entertainment.

So, Satan is just a standup comedian?

In a cinema, not only the hero is remunerated but also the villain. Satan is used to test the devotees through his attractions. Thus Satan is required in the spiritual effort of the human being. In answering a multiple-choice question, there are three wrong answers along with one correct answer. The three wrong answers represent Satan, which appear more correct and attract the mind. The power of discrimination of the student becomes more significant in presence of such wrong answers only. What is the significance of the happiness without misery? Nothing and none can oppose the Lord. Satan is required for His divine game.

posted by: surya (disciple of Swamiji)
www.universal-spirituality.org
Marrying a 6 year old and waiting until she reaches puberty and maturity before having consensual sex is better than walking up to
a stranger in a bar and proceeding to have relations with no valid proof of the intent of the person. Muhammad wins. ~ Fatihah
If they don't want to be killed then they have to subdue to the Islamic laws. - Uncung
Without God, you are lower than sh!t. ~ SpiritandTruth
DanneJeRusse
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2/5/2015 6:57:19 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 2/5/2015 6:53:21 PM, uncung wrote:
What is incarnation?

Here's a link you may want to save as a Favorite.

http://dictionary.reference.com...
Marrying a 6 year old and waiting until she reaches puberty and maturity before having consensual sex is better than walking up to
a stranger in a bar and proceeding to have relations with no valid proof of the intent of the person. Muhammad wins. ~ Fatihah
If they don't want to be killed then they have to subdue to the Islamic laws. - Uncung
Without God, you are lower than sh!t. ~ SpiritandTruth
uncung
Posts: 3,431
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2/5/2015 7:06:30 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 2/5/2015 6:57:19 PM, DanneJeRusse wrote:
At 2/5/2015 6:53:21 PM, uncung wrote:
What is incarnation?

Here's a link you may want to save as a Favorite.

http://dictionary.reference.com...

A living being embodying a deity or spirit.
A human form and is completely both God and man.
celestialtorahteacher
Posts: 1,369
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2/5/2015 10:16:39 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
Idol worshipers cannot tell anyone about God or true religious belief in God. Because they worship idols instead of God. You Muhammadans are all idol worshipers who worship your main idol, the man Muhammad, and then his book and his invisible god, Allah, who cannot be distinguished at all from the man Muhammad. But idol worshipers are told by their idol, Muhammad, not to ever think rationally about this fact, the fact that all non-Muslims automatically see but Muhammad idol worshipers are completely blind to it, that there is NO Difference at all between Muhammad and his Allah, they are one and the same. Only idol worshipers would fall for the trick of having the author of a god and religious book that tells them only the author of the book can speak for God, no one else ever can. Only stupid people made that way by centuries of serving tyrants and tyrannical societies run by autocrats would ever accept a religious dictator who only "proof" of anything is making wars against others and killing people. Oh yes, all sorts of non verifiable claims are made for the idol such as "proof" is the idol's success in religious empire building but Muhammad was eclipsed many times in history by far more successful empire builders such Alexander or Genghis Khan or the British Empire, the largest ever in history. But where are these empires now? And where are the totalitarian religions like Roman Catholicism now? Muhammad's totalitarian religion stops at the West because it cannot overrun democracy and human rights movements that overthrew religious and secular fascist totalitarians several times in the past. Muhammad is only acceptable to ignorant people with very low standards of behavior, people willing to turn a blind eye to other people's misery caused by their violent religion being acted out and killing innocent human beings.

If you guys try to post anything from the Quran, I report you for posting a source of hate speech that includes instructions to murder people.
dattaswami
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2/7/2015 5:35:50 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 2/5/2015 6:53:21 PM, uncung wrote:
What is incarnation?

Incarnation means God in human form or God-in-flesh as per Christianity.
dattaswami
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2/7/2015 5:38:23 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 2/5/2015 10:16:39 PM, celestialtorahteacher wrote:
Idol worshipers cannot tell anyone about God or true religious belief in God. Because they worship idols instead of God.

Idol Worship ... (Message of Shri Datta Swami)

Statue or photo is inert object. Form carved in stone or painted on paper is also an imaginary form and not even a direct photo. The statues and photos are only models representing the concept, which is knowledge. The form of statues and photos is mainly human form, which represents the concept that the Lord always comes to this world in human form as said in Gita (Manusheem Tanu Masritam"). Please remember, Gita did not tell that Lord would come in any other form.

Forms of fish, tortoise etc., were temporarily to kill the demons and nobody worshipped such forms during their time. But Rama, Krishna etc were the human forms worshipped by several devotees like Hanuman and Gopikas. Lord will come in every human generation; otherwise, He becomes partial to a particular generation. If necessary Lord can come whenever there is necessity as said in Gita (Yadaa yadaahi").

Once this concept is realized, there is no need of temple and statue for you. You should go from school to college and then to university. This does not mean that when you leave the school, the school should be destroyed. School must exist for future batches. Therefore for you, statue and photo are not necessary and this does not mean that statues, photos and temples should be broken. They should be protected and must be respected as models of divine knowledge for future ignorant devotees. Some devotees cannot accept human form, which is before their eyes as said in Veda (Pratyaksha dvishah).

For such devotees statues and photos are necessary for meditation since they are at school level.Statues and photos are useful for the meditation of such limited minds as said in Sastra(Pratima svalpa buddhinam).Veda says that the Lord does not exist in the inert objects (Natasya pratima, Nedamtat), but says that the inert objects can stand as models representing the Lord (Adityam brahmeti).So seeing and meditation upon the statues and photos are correct in the case of ignorant devotees.

posted by: surya (disciple of Swamiji)