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An evening with Hugh Ross and Deborah Haarsma

ChristianPunk
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2/1/2015 4:38:05 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
Astronomer Hugh Ross is the founder of Reasons to Believe, an old earth creationist website that has a creation model that they claim can be tested with science compared to the YEC model. He is a very rational person who I wish I could have a discussion with.

Deborah Haarsma is a former president of BioLogos and theistic evolutionist who even helped to offer a curriculum book/dvd for BioLogos known as Origins: Christian Perspectives on Creationism, Evolution and Intelligent Design. She gives lectures on faith and science and has even helped with a movie called "Test of Faith."

Enjoy the video and leave comments and let's get our own conversation going about science and faith.
celestialtorahteacher
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2/1/2015 8:15:54 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
Oh these poor people, Pauline Christians stuck in Bible Authority land. They'll never be able to convince secular scientists of spiritual truth because they can't go against their IDOL, that paper and ink object that tells them how to think and act. It's an object, not Spirit, which is the only spiritually authentic means of learning about spiritual reality.

I was an atheist, thought Christianity and Jesus were morbid obsessions with death, and science could explain everything kind of guy until age 35 when I underwent my own Road to Damascus three day religious conversion experience. That experience utterly destroyed all my prior science explains all mindset as science couldn't begin to explain what had happened to me--three days and nights of continuous synchronicity events, all of them relating to religious themes that, yes, were in the Bible, it is packed with spiritual information, but you can't use it unless you have the Keys which even rabbis, certainly not pastors, do not possess. They have none to offer but a whole lot of man-made mumbo-jumbo. One of my first revelations of that experience was this one I wrote down a few months later in 1979 about the end of the Universe and Key to the Unified Field Theory:

Revelations:"""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""
The end of the Universe and Key to the Unified Field Theory

Evidently God wants someone to wake up science by taking on the ultimate mystery of the known universe- where did it come from and where is it going? I like science but certainly have no qualifications for delivering the following missing pieces in that ultimate puzzle."The reader is cautioned to understand that facts seem to change with time and circumstances but the Spirit does not, and it is the spirit of what is being offered that should be paid attention to.

Black Holes are the keys to the physical ending of our known universe and the keys to the discovery of the mathematical formulas which attempt to unite the puzzling similarities between the structures and forces operating in the macro-universe of stars, galaxies, and gravitational attraction, and the structures and forces of the micro-universe of atoms, sub-atomic particles, and electromagnetism.""Black Holes are also the key to the mystery of where hydrogen atom come from.

Science tells us that Black Holes are the last stage in the evolution of stars of sufficient mass that have so exhausted their atomic fuel in continuous fusion reaction that the remaining atomic matter loses internal coherence and self-implodes."This inward collapse of each atom's nuclear structure in turn creates a compressive effect that allows for incredible densities to occur in the remaining star matter."These super densities in their turn create super gravitational "pulls" which become strong enough in Black Hole stars to literally suck all radiation energy still remaining back into the stars themselves including radiated light so that all that can be seen of such stars are areas of lightless space- Black Holes.

Insights I have received would add these observations: Black Holes are the recycling centers of the universe and the universe's brakes on itself, on its outward expansion created from the original Big Bang explosion of its birth. Black Holes are distributed throughout time and space matching the distribution of stars."Black Holes act as literal vacuum cleaners of all matter and energy, and most importantly, time itself."The force of gravity (or curvature of space) is so immense in the Black Hole phenomena that following Einstein's theory of relativity, timed events slow to a complete stop as they disappear altogether in the Black Hole left by the dying star."

The fabric of time and space, Einstein's time/space continuum, is left distorted around the areas of Black Holes and since these holes are distributed throughout the universe, there is a continual if gradual warping and sucking of all stars systems into the universal Black Hole annihilation network and a continuous destruction of time and space itself--Entropy.

What happens to the matter and energy that disappears from our universe into nowhere in these Black Holes?"It is reborn again, synchronized in time and space as one tremendous explosion, the original Big Bang itself which occurred 15 to 20 billion years ago in our time perspective, but as Einstein pointed out, such time being completely relative to our present position in space and not absolute- there is no absolute time scale."The cycle of the universe is therefore eternally Finite--"a closed system.

Hydrogen atoms are born through the Black Hole/Big Bang transformation."Hydrogen atoms are blown out as a gigantic clouds of interstellar dust to eventually coalesce into stars again which in turn provide the conditions for further and more complex combinations of these atoms becoming the rest of the basic elements."Hydrogen atoms are the transformed and super compressed structures of Black Hole stars."
All atomic nuclear reactions release the super compressed gravitational energy that has been transformed into nuclear binding and electromagnetism."For some reason I get the impression there is danger in releasing such energy here on Earth not only from the known dangers of radiation but also from the warpage of the fabric of time surrounding our world.

Prediction of lack of Alien visitors

Since everywhere eventually becomes the same, there won't be many signs of Others*
Because our universe is finite there is an end conceivable to the discovery of new places and new physical laws."There will not be many, perhaps not any, traces of other space traveling civilizations because at this point of understanding the only real unknown lies in the realm of the Spirit."Like the Bermuda Triangle, Black Holes stand as symbols to all scientists that the real ultimate mystery lies in that other realm beyond the physical.

* Famed alien hunter quits research center after 35 years of searching
"Wed, 05/23/2012 -

Without spiritual experience direct from God you are stuck with second-hand spiritual experiences of ancient dead men who aren't you but only words in books. Because I don't have a string of letters after my name or belong to a recognized religious organization nor have I sought public recognition for my works in Israel/Palestine and Native America, I am unknown to the Christian world but they need me to defend the faith as God hasn't given them the intellectual tools necessary to go up against atheist science and atheist arguments against theistic belief in God vs. no opinion of a random chance universe exploding away on its own without purpose.
Skepticalone
Posts: 6,133
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2/1/2015 9:59:51 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 2/1/2015 4:38:05 PM, ChristianPunk wrote:


Astronomer Hugh Ross is the founder of Reasons to Believe, an old earth creationist website that has a creation model that they claim can be tested with science compared to the YEC model. He is a very rational person who I wish I could have a discussion with.

Deborah Haarsma is a former president of BioLogos and theistic evolutionist who even helped to offer a curriculum book/dvd for BioLogos known as Origins: Christian Perspectives on Creationism, Evolution and Intelligent Design. She gives lectures on faith and science and has even helped with a movie called "Test of Faith."

Enjoy the video and leave comments and let's get our own conversation going about science and faith.

I have watched part of the video, so hopefully I have not missed any talking points. Hugh seems to prefer to diminish science and take the Bible as inerrant, while Deborah seems to take science as primary, and view the Bible as metaphorical. My personal opinion, which was reinforced by watching this video, is you cannot mesh science and Christianity without watering down one or both.
This thread is like eavesdropping on a conversation in a mental asylum. - Bulproof

You can call your invisible friends whatever you like. - Desmac

What the hell kind of coked up sideshow has this thread turned into. - Casten
ChristianPunk
Posts: 1,710
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2/1/2015 10:09:17 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 2/1/2015 9:59:51 PM, Skepticalone wrote:
At 2/1/2015 4:38:05 PM, ChristianPunk wrote:


Astronomer Hugh Ross is the founder of Reasons to Believe, an old earth creationist website that has a creation model that they claim can be tested with science compared to the YEC model. He is a very rational person who I wish I could have a discussion with.

Deborah Haarsma is a former president of BioLogos and theistic evolutionist who even helped to offer a curriculum book/dvd for BioLogos known as Origins: Christian Perspectives on Creationism, Evolution and Intelligent Design. She gives lectures on faith and science and has even helped with a movie called "Test of Faith."

Enjoy the video and leave comments and let's get our own conversation going about science and faith.

I have watched part of the video, so hopefully I have not missed any talking points. Hugh seems to prefer to diminish science and take the Bible as inerrant, while Deborah seems to take science as primary, and view the Bible as metaphorical. My personal opinion, which was reinforced by watching this video, is you cannot mesh science and Christianity without watering down one or both.

Actually, Deborah says there are some metaphors, but others like the Gospels, which are to be taken literally except the parables. Hugh Ross doesn't try to diminish science that much, but he the term inerrant is difficult to describe. He has a book called "The Treasures in The Book of Job" where he states Job is the first book of the bible written and says it starts the poetry and metaphor part of the bible.
bornofgod
Posts: 11,322
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2/1/2015 10:17:09 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 2/1/2015 4:38:05 PM, ChristianPunk wrote:


Astronomer Hugh Ross is the founder of Reasons to Believe, an old earth creationist website that has a creation model that they claim can be tested with science compared to the YEC model. He is a very rational person who I wish I could have a discussion with.

Deborah Haarsma is a former president of BioLogos and theistic evolutionist who even helped to offer a curriculum book/dvd for BioLogos known as Origins: Christian Perspectives on Creationism, Evolution and Intelligent Design. She gives lectures on faith and science and has even helped with a movie called "Test of Faith."

Enjoy the video and leave comments and let's get our own conversation going about science and faith.

There two in the video are a couple of babbling idiots who have no idea how we were created.
celestialtorahteacher
Posts: 1,369
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2/1/2015 10:28:45 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
As if you do? Don't recall, boring of goo, that you're another Failed or false prophet as you falsely predicted you demise that never came about. Now you continue to bore us with your narcissistic inanities about your selfish self.
celestialtorahteacher
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2/1/2015 10:32:19 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
Boring is going to have to hire his hit-men in order to try to fulfill his prophesy it looks like but it's too late, his predicted time came and went just like the other doomsday quacks, all attention hogs wanting some fame so desperation drives them to extremes.
bornofgod
Posts: 11,322
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2/1/2015 10:33:55 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 2/1/2015 10:28:45 PM, celestialtorahteacher wrote:
As if you do? Don't recall, boring of goo, that you're another Failed or false prophet as you falsely predicted you demise that never came about. Now you continue to bore us with your narcissistic inanities about your selfish self.

I'm not a failed prophet. I'm a saint of the Lord's who testifies to His knowledge, which is my created existence.

You are bored because you are not a chosen believer who listens to the voice of God, another name for my created existence.
celestialtorahteacher
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2/1/2015 10:34:21 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
But hey, maybe we do need some major volcanic activity as it turns out ejection of sulfur clouds into the high atmosphere helps cool things down below.
Skepticalone
Posts: 6,133
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2/1/2015 10:35:56 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 2/1/2015 10:09:17 PM, ChristianPunk wrote:
At 2/1/2015 9:59:51 PM, Skepticalone wrote:
At 2/1/2015 4:38:05 PM, ChristianPunk wrote:


Astronomer Hugh Ross is the founder of Reasons to Believe, an old earth creationist website that has a creation model that they claim can be tested with science compared to the YEC model. He is a very rational person who I wish I could have a discussion with.

Deborah Haarsma is a former president of BioLogos and theistic evolutionist who even helped to offer a curriculum book/dvd for BioLogos known as Origins: Christian Perspectives on Creationism, Evolution and Intelligent Design. She gives lectures on faith and science and has even helped with a movie called "Test of Faith."

Enjoy the video and leave comments and let's get our own conversation going about science and faith.

I have watched part of the video, so hopefully I have not missed any talking points. Hugh seems to prefer to diminish science and take the Bible as inerrant, while Deborah seems to take science as primary, and view the Bible as metaphorical. My personal opinion, which was reinforced by watching this video, is you cannot mesh science and Christianity without watering down one or both.

Actually, Deborah says there are some metaphors, but others like the Gospels, which are to be taken literally except the parables. Hugh Ross doesn't try to diminish science that much, but he the term inerrant is difficult to describe. He has a book called "The Treasures in The Book of Job" where he states Job is the first book of the bible written and says it starts the poetry and metaphor part of the bible.

Yes, I didn't mean to say she views the entire Bible as metaphorical, she views the Bible more metaphorically than Hugh. Hugh Ross obviously uses 'inerrant' in a different way than I do. ;-)
This thread is like eavesdropping on a conversation in a mental asylum. - Bulproof

You can call your invisible friends whatever you like. - Desmac

What the hell kind of coked up sideshow has this thread turned into. - Casten
celestialtorahteacher
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2/1/2015 10:37:55 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
I'm not bored, that's you frustrated because your words of prophesy don't happen and are bunk. I told you, Scriptures you use tell you, but you're so egotistically narcissistic (God=boringagainofgod) that you can't hear anyone, that no, Gentiles are not in the Jewish prophesy linage. You are literally out of line and can never bear true prophesies based on our Jewish Scriptures.
bornofgod
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2/1/2015 10:42:36 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 2/1/2015 10:34:21 PM, celestialtorahteacher wrote:
But hey, maybe we do need some major volcanic activity as it turns out ejection of sulfur clouds into the high atmosphere helps cool things down below.

You may or may not see sulfur clouds in the sky before you're killed from the earth shaking so violently. Many people will be killed by falling objects or falling into openings in the earth's crust just before hot molten lava comes pouring out of them to melt the entire crust.
ChristianPunk
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2/1/2015 10:43:20 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 2/1/2015 10:37:55 PM, celestialtorahteacher wrote:
I'm not bored, that's you frustrated because your words of prophesy don't happen and are bunk. I told you, Scriptures you use tell you, but you're so egotistically narcissistic (God=boringagainofgod) that you can't hear anyone, that no, Gentiles are not in the Jewish prophesy linage. You are literally out of line and can never bear true prophesies based on our Jewish Scriptures.

A song about Celestial

I am no one
But I'm well known
For I am the Man with the Dogs

I stare at you shopping
Watch while you're walking
Two dogs run around your toes

You turn around
Two eyes break you down
"Now, who does that guy think he's starin' at?"

Stop in your tracks
You're being laughed at
You armored ego is nude

And I do and I do
Crack up 'cos I'm getting to you
I see you I see you
And you're pretty self-conscious too

Down to your church
I'm looking for victims
Spell of the Man with the Dogs

I'll haunt you
And follow you to work
That ghost is back again

Creep into you
I won't go away
You're taking yourself too seriously

I smile as you frown
And turn to walk away
Your habits for all to see

I see a shrew
I see you
And the rodent things you do
You see you I see you
And you're pretty self-conscious too

And I'm gonna crack your mask
Yeah and I'm gonna laugh
Open wide

Saw you again
You'll see me tomorrow
Curse of the Man with the Dogs

You may not like me
You won't forget me
Not safe even in Walgreen's

They've seen me
Ask your friends
'Oh I know him'
Seen but I'm never heard
By your lot

A stare
Is worth a thousand biting phrases
See how stupid you are?

I dare you I dare you
To erase my laser tattoo
You see you you see you
And you're pretty self-conscious too

And I'm gonna crack your mask
Yeah, and I'm gonna laugh
What's inside?
Is it pubic hair
Is it cobweb air
I bet you just don't care
bornofgod
Posts: 11,322
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2/1/2015 10:46:50 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 2/1/2015 10:37:55 PM, celestialtorahteacher wrote:
I'm not bored, that's you frustrated because your words of prophesy don't happen and are bunk. I told you, Scriptures you use tell you, but you're so egotistically narcissistic (God=boringagainofgod) that you can't hear anyone, that no, Gentiles are not in the Jewish prophesy linage. You are literally out of line and can never bear true prophesies based on our Jewish Scriptures.

You don't understand any of the biblical prophecies that were written by God's prophets who didn't understand what they were writing, either.