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Who created the deity?

JJ50
Posts: 2,144
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2/2/2015 10:27:13 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
If the deity exists how did it come into existence? The statement, 'it was always there', which is the one I usually get to that question from theists, doesn't answer the question, imo.
YassineB
Posts: 1,003
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2/2/2015 11:06:03 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 2/2/2015 10:27:13 AM, JJ50 wrote:
If the deity exists how did it come into existence? The statement, 'it was always there', which is the one I usually get to that question from theists, doesn't answer the question, imo.

- Deity, if it exists, it's BY DEFINITION uncreated. Thus, the question: 'Who created the deity?' leads to a Contradiction.
Current Debates In Voting Period:

- The Qur'an We Have Today is Not What Muhammad Dictated Verbatim. Vs. @Envisage:
http://www.debate.org...

- Drawing Contest. Vs. @purpleduck:
http://www.debate.org...

"It is perfectly permissible to vote on sources without reading them" bluesteel.
JJ50
Posts: 2,144
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2/2/2015 11:07:28 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 2/2/2015 11:06:03 AM, YassineB wrote:
At 2/2/2015 10:27:13 AM, JJ50 wrote:
If the deity exists how did it come into existence? The statement, 'it was always there', which is the one I usually get to that question from theists, doesn't answer the question, imo.

- Deity, if it exists, it's BY DEFINITION uncreated. Thus, the question: 'Who created the deity?' leads to a Contradiction.

I don't buy that explanation!
YassineB
Posts: 1,003
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2/2/2015 11:09:06 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 2/2/2015 11:07:28 AM, JJ50 wrote:
At 2/2/2015 11:06:03 AM, YassineB wrote:
At 2/2/2015 10:27:13 AM, JJ50 wrote:
If the deity exists how did it come into existence? The statement, 'it was always there', which is the one I usually get to that question from theists, doesn't answer the question, imo.

- Deity, if it exists, it's BY DEFINITION uncreated. Thus, the question: 'Who created the deity?' leads to a Contradiction.

I don't buy that explanation!

- Then you're, BY DEFINITION, irrational, since you don't recognise the Law of Non-Contradiction.
Current Debates In Voting Period:

- The Qur'an We Have Today is Not What Muhammad Dictated Verbatim. Vs. @Envisage:
http://www.debate.org...

- Drawing Contest. Vs. @purpleduck:
http://www.debate.org...

"It is perfectly permissible to vote on sources without reading them" bluesteel.
Mhykiel
Posts: 5,987
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2/2/2015 11:22:40 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 2/2/2015 10:27:13 AM, JJ50 wrote:
If the deity exists how did it come into existence? The statement, 'it was always there', which is the one I usually get to that question from theists, doesn't answer the question, imo.

From the beganning of time to the end of time God exists. There is no place or time for something else to create God.

And even if God was a baby jebus from 2 other Gods does that make our relationship to the creator of this universe much different?
JJ50
Posts: 2,144
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2/2/2015 11:24:11 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 2/2/2015 11:22:40 AM, Mhykiel wrote:
At 2/2/2015 10:27:13 AM, JJ50 wrote:
If the deity exists how did it come into existence? The statement, 'it was always there', which is the one I usually get to that question from theists, doesn't answer the question, imo.

From the beganning of time to the end of time God exists. There is no place or time for something else to create God.

And even if God was a baby jebus from 2 other Gods does that make our relationship to the creator of this universe much different?

Your statement has no evidence to support it!
Mhykiel
Posts: 5,987
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2/2/2015 11:27:37 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 2/2/2015 11:24:11 AM, JJ50 wrote:
At 2/2/2015 11:22:40 AM, Mhykiel wrote:
At 2/2/2015 10:27:13 AM, JJ50 wrote:
If the deity exists how did it come into existence? The statement, 'it was always there', which is the one I usually get to that question from theists, doesn't answer the question, imo.

From the beganning of time to the end of time God exists. There is no place or time for something else to create God.

And even if God was a baby jebus from 2 other Gods does that make our relationship to the creator of this universe much different?

Your statement has no evidence to support it!

You asked 'if a diety exists' I define diety as an omnipresent being and eternal.

This is evident in that God has never been created or destroyed just always existed.
bornofgod
Posts: 11,322
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2/2/2015 12:23:42 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 2/2/2015 10:27:13 AM, JJ50 wrote:
If the deity exists how did it come into existence? The statement, 'it was always there', which is the one I usually get to that question from theists, doesn't answer the question, imo.

We saints aren't taught by our Creator beyond what he created. All we know is that He created His language of vibrations that are processed into illusions that we all believed were real. Now we know that we're only characters in His simulated program called Eternal Life. We have learned that this part of His dream is about to end and the next part of His dream will never end. We have no choice but to keep experiencing life forever.
Skyangel
Posts: 8,234
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2/2/2015 5:23:09 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 2/2/2015 10:27:13 AM, JJ50 wrote:
If the deity exists how did it come into existence? The statement, 'it was always there', which is the one I usually get to that question from theists, doesn't answer the question, imo.

Your question shows you have no understanding of the concept of that which is eternal and infinite. Infinity and eternity have no beginning or end. That is the nature of infinity.

That which has always existed is infinite and eternal.
Skyangel
Posts: 8,234
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2/2/2015 5:26:03 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
Mankind personified eternity and infinity into a deity.
That deity represents eternity in the same way Mother Nature represents nature.
The deity does not exist but eternity/infinity does.
Trying to find a beginning of infinity is like trying to find a beginning to space.
celestialtorahteacher
Posts: 1,369
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2/2/2015 10:11:51 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
You can't find it , birth of Creation, birth of diety because you're basically an atheist "believer" in Nature and the natural world and not in God. But you share the same lack of knowledge of how we got here as do theists, all of you unable to explain Creation and God's beginning. I can. God gave me the right information that explains how Creation and God came into being. No other religions know this but it was given to me to teach the world about the identity of God and the Purpose of Life.
uncung
Posts: 3,453
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2/2/2015 10:54:46 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 2/2/2015 10:11:51 PM, celestialtorahteacher wrote:
You can't find it , birth of Creation, birth of diety because you're basically an atheist "believer" in Nature and the natural world and not in God. But you share the same lack of knowledge of how we got here as do theists, all of you unable to explain Creation and God's beginning. I can. God gave me the right information that explains how Creation and God came into being. No other religions know this but it was given to me to teach the world about the identity of God and the Purpose of Life.

How is the right information about Creation according to your personal God?
What is the Purpose of Life?
JJ50
Posts: 2,144
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2/3/2015 3:03:26 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 2/2/2015 10:11:51 PM, celestialtorahteacher wrote:
You can't find it , birth of Creation, birth of diety because you're basically an atheist "believer" in Nature and the natural world and not in God. But you share the same lack of knowledge of how we got here as do theists, all of you unable to explain Creation and God's beginning. I can. God gave me the right information that explains how Creation and God came into being. No other religions know this but it was given to me to teach the world about the identity of God and the Purpose of Life.

Ha! Ha!
18Karl
Posts: 351
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2/3/2015 3:15:23 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 2/2/2015 11:06:03 AM, YassineB wrote:
At 2/2/2015 10:27:13 AM, JJ50 wrote:
If the deity exists how did it come into existence? The statement, 'it was always there', which is the one I usually get to that question from theists, doesn't answer the question, imo.

- Deity, if it exists, it's BY DEFINITION uncreated. Thus, the question: 'Who created the deity?' leads to a Contradiction.

Congrats, you have proved the existence of the universe.
praise the lord Chin Chin
Geneaux
Posts: 48
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2/3/2015 6:51:19 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 2/2/2015 10:27:13 AM, JJ50 wrote:
If the deity exists how did it come into existence? The statement, 'it was always there', which is the one I usually get to that question from theists, doesn't answer the question, imo.

1. everything that begins to exist has a cause
2. God is eternal
3. therefore he does not have a cause

Simple logic of their being a creator. I know atheists just follow the fashionable movement of being atheists but if you can't reason that far then there's very little hope for your movement at all.
bornofgod
Posts: 11,322
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2/3/2015 7:32:51 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 2/2/2015 5:26:03 PM, Skyangel wrote:
Mankind personified eternity and infinity into a deity.
That deity represents eternity in the same way Mother Nature represents nature.
The deity does not exist but eternity/infinity does.
Trying to find a beginning of infinity is like trying to find a beginning to space.

Those who don't understand what a virtual reality is are very confused. None of us can get out of this dream of God's.
Benshapiro
Posts: 3,966
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2/3/2015 7:38:11 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
Something has to be the thing from which everything came from.

(1) everything regresses to a point where something popped out of absolute nothingness.

Or

(2) everything regresses to a point where something originated from something eternal.

Just as a preliminary question, which is most logical to you?
bornofgod
Posts: 11,322
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2/3/2015 7:43:31 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 2/3/2015 7:38:11 AM, Benshapiro wrote:
Something has to be the thing from which everything came from.

(1) everything regresses to a point where something popped out of absolute nothingness.

Or

(2) everything regresses to a point where something originated from something eternal.

Just as a preliminary question, which is most logical to you?

Our Creator has not taught me anything other than the virtual reality and His characters that He planned and created. Life for us created beings is a dream of our Creator's my friend.
JJ50
Posts: 2,144
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2/3/2015 8:01:33 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 2/3/2015 7:43:31 AM, bornofgod wrote:
At 2/3/2015 7:38:11 AM, Benshapiro wrote:
Something has to be the thing from which everything came from.

(1) everything regresses to a point where something popped out of absolute nothingness.

Or

(2) everything regresses to a point where something originated from something eternal.

Just as a preliminary question, which is most logical to you?

Our Creator has not taught me anything other than the virtual reality and His characters that He planned and created. Life for us created beings is a dream of our Creator's my friend.

Maybe your 'creator' would be better employed helping you confront your obvious problems. Instead of posting your complete nonsense on this forum, maybe you would be better doing an activity which would help you get your head straight!
bornofgod
Posts: 11,322
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2/3/2015 8:04:05 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 2/3/2015 8:01:33 AM, JJ50 wrote:
At 2/3/2015 7:43:31 AM, bornofgod wrote:
At 2/3/2015 7:38:11 AM, Benshapiro wrote:
Something has to be the thing from which everything came from.

(1) everything regresses to a point where something popped out of absolute nothingness.

Or

(2) everything regresses to a point where something originated from something eternal.

Just as a preliminary question, which is most logical to you?

Our Creator has not taught me anything other than the virtual reality and His characters that He planned and created. Life for us created beings is a dream of our Creator's my friend.

Maybe your 'creator' would be better employed helping you confront your obvious problems. Instead of posting your complete nonsense on this forum, maybe you would be better doing an activity which would help you get your head straight!

My head my not look straight to you heathens but what comes out of me and my body is what God is using for His purpose.
Impartial
Posts: 375
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2/3/2015 8:06:46 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 2/2/2015 11:06:03 AM, YassineB wrote:
At 2/2/2015 10:27:13 AM, JJ50 wrote:
If the deity exists how did it come into existence? The statement, 'it was always there', which is the one I usually get to that question from theists, doesn't answer the question, imo.

- Deity, if it exists, it's BY DEFINITION uncreated. Thus, the question: 'Who created the deity?' leads to a Contradiction.

How very convenient for you.
To believe is to know nothing.
Impartial
Posts: 375
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2/3/2015 8:09:55 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 2/3/2015 7:38:11 AM, Benshapiro wrote:
Something has to be the thing from which everything came from.

Why?


(1) everything regresses to a point where something popped out of absolute nothingness.

Or

(2) everything regresses to a point where something originated from something eternal.

Just as a preliminary question, which is most logical to you?

Why should and how could our infinitesimally small species even know such a thing?
To believe is to know nothing.
YassineB
Posts: 1,003
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2/3/2015 8:10:06 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 2/3/2015 8:06:46 AM, Impartial wrote:
At 2/2/2015 11:06:03 AM, YassineB wrote:
At 2/2/2015 10:27:13 AM, JJ50 wrote:
If the deity exists how did it come into existence? The statement, 'it was always there', which is the one I usually get to that question from theists, doesn't answer the question, imo.

- Deity, if it exists, it's BY DEFINITION uncreated. Thus, the question: 'Who created the deity?' leads to a Contradiction.

How very convenient for you.

- Not for me, for LOGIC. It is what it is.
Current Debates In Voting Period:

- The Qur'an We Have Today is Not What Muhammad Dictated Verbatim. Vs. @Envisage:
http://www.debate.org...

- Drawing Contest. Vs. @purpleduck:
http://www.debate.org...

"It is perfectly permissible to vote on sources without reading them" bluesteel.
Benshapiro
Posts: 3,966
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2/3/2015 8:11:57 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 2/3/2015 8:09:55 AM, Impartial wrote:
At 2/3/2015 7:38:11 AM, Benshapiro wrote:
Something has to be the thing from which everything came from.

Why?

Because things exist contingently. Either this contingency regresses back to a non-contingent origin or an origin from nothingness.


(1) everything regresses to a point where something popped out of absolute nothingness.

Or

(2) everything regresses to a point where something originated from something eternal.

Just as a preliminary question, which is most logical to you?

Why should and how could our infinitesimally small species even know such a thing?

Logic.
Impartial
Posts: 375
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2/3/2015 8:20:48 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 2/3/2015 8:10:06 AM, YassineB wrote:
At 2/3/2015 8:06:46 AM, Impartial wrote:
At 2/2/2015 11:06:03 AM, YassineB wrote:
At 2/2/2015 10:27:13 AM, JJ50 wrote:
If the deity exists how did it come into existence? The statement, 'it was always there', which is the one I usually get to that question from theists, doesn't answer the question, imo.

- Deity, if it exists, it's BY DEFINITION uncreated. Thus, the question: 'Who created the deity?' leads to a Contradiction.

How very convenient for you.

- Not for me, for LOGIC. It is what it is.

You have an opinion/belief about a super hero who created the entire universe.

You define it as 'uncreated'.

Anyone who disputes that is contradicting themselves because the super hero is uncreated. Duh!

This is your 'logic'. How does it sound, now that I've described it to you?
To believe is to know nothing.
Impartial
Posts: 375
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2/3/2015 8:40:25 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 2/3/2015 8:11:57 AM, Benshapiro wrote:
At 2/3/2015 8:09:55 AM, Impartial wrote:
At 2/3/2015 7:38:11 AM, Benshapiro wrote:
Something has to be the thing from which everything came from.

Why?

Because things exist contingently. Either this contingency regresses back to a non-contingent origin or an origin from nothingness.

Ok, so based on your answer I can tell you now that your proposition is an opinion therefore you can't say something HAS to be XYZ. Why? Because you do not know that your idea is true.



(1) everything regresses to a point where something popped out of absolute nothingness.

Or

(2) everything regresses to a point where something originated from something eternal.

Just as a preliminary question, which is most logical to you?

Why should and how could our infinitesimally small species even know such a thing?

Logic.

There is a huge chasm between knowledge and logic. You and I discussed this in another thread. All you've done is provide two opposing linear arguments. You don't know these parameters are sufficient.
To believe is to know nothing.
Kyle_the_Heretic
Posts: 748
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2/3/2015 8:54:37 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 2/2/2015 10:27:13 AM, JJ50 wrote:
If the deity exists how did it come into existence? The statement, 'it was always there', which is the one I usually get to that question from theists, doesn't answer the question, imo.

In another thread, you claimed that religion was responsible for most wars. I asked you to provide evidence of that, but you didn't. Gee, I wonder why?

Now you're saying that it's your opinion that a deity cannot be infinite. Why could a deity not "always have been there?" I already know the logic used to doubt the existence of God. I would like to see the logic used to doubt the infinity of a (if it exists) hypothetical deity.

Do you believe that matter and energy can be infinite? Why or why not?
Thinking is extremely taxing on the gullible, and it takes hours to clear the smoke.
YassineB
Posts: 1,003
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2/3/2015 9:01:55 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 2/3/2015 8:20:48 AM, Impartial wrote:
You have an opinion/belief about a super hero who created the entire universe.

You define it as 'uncreated'.

Anyone who disputes that is contradicting themselves because the super hero is uncreated. Duh!

This is your 'logic'. How does it sound, now that I've described it to you?

- I am tired of arguing with illogical people. Go study a little Logic & we can talk then.
- My statement was conditional: 'Deity, if it exists, it's BY DEFINITION uncreated.', it doesn't asset anything, it's simply a necessary implication by virtue of the definition it is based on.
Current Debates In Voting Period:

- The Qur'an We Have Today is Not What Muhammad Dictated Verbatim. Vs. @Envisage:
http://www.debate.org...

- Drawing Contest. Vs. @purpleduck:
http://www.debate.org...

"It is perfectly permissible to vote on sources without reading them" bluesteel.
Impartial
Posts: 375
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2/3/2015 9:16:14 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 2/3/2015 9:01:55 AM, YassineB wrote:
At 2/3/2015 8:20:48 AM, Impartial wrote:
You have an opinion/belief about a super hero who created the entire universe.

You define it as 'uncreated'.

Anyone who disputes that is contradicting themselves because the super hero is uncreated. Duh!

This is your 'logic'. How does it sound, now that I've described it to you?

- I am tired of arguing with illogical people. Go study a little Logic & we can talk then.

You don't know me. An answer to my question would be a good next step...

- My statement was conditional: 'Deity, if it exists, it's BY DEFINITION uncreated.', it doesn't asset anything, it's simply a necessary implication by virtue of the definition it is based on.

The definition itself is contentious though, don't you realise that? You've reached a dead end because the one word that counts here is 'if.'
To believe is to know nothing.
Benshapiro
Posts: 3,966
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2/3/2015 9:16:34 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 2/3/2015 8:40:25 AM, Impartial wrote:
At 2/3/2015 8:11:57 AM, Benshapiro wrote:
At 2/3/2015 8:09:55 AM, Impartial wrote:
At 2/3/2015 7:38:11 AM, Benshapiro wrote:
Something has to be the thing from which everything came from.

Why?

Because things exist contingently. Either this contingency regresses back to a non-contingent origin or an origin from nothingness.

Ok, so based on your answer I can tell you now that your proposition is an opinion therefore you can't say something HAS to be XYZ. Why? Because you do not know that your idea is true.

It's not an opinion. If something exists it either came from something or nothing. You'd be defying the law of non-contradiction to say otherwise.



(1) everything regresses to a point where something popped out of absolute nothingness.

Or

(2) everything regresses to a point where something originated from something eternal.

Just as a preliminary question, which is most logical to you?

Why should and how could our infinitesimally small species even know such a thing?

Logic.

There is a huge chasm between knowledge and logic. You and I discussed this in another thread. All you've done is provide two opposing linear arguments. You don't know these parameters are sufficient.

So we're unsure if the laws of logic are constant? We can't trust them? Why would we abandon the use of logic and just assume it's insufficient for no reason?