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Even if god was real...

Proving_a_Negative
Posts: 88
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2/2/2015 10:37:07 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
If god was real, should we even use this as a model for our universe? Is there any predictability power from such a theory? The whole goal of science is to predict what will happen if something else happens. If god was real, it seems as though he is just sitting back and watching. If we conclude god did create everything, we will have to predict what god will do next. This would be far more difficult since he never contacts.
JJ50
Posts: 2,144
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2/2/2015 10:43:55 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 2/2/2015 10:37:07 AM, Proving_a_Negative wrote:
If god was real, should we even use this as a model for our universe? Is there any predictability power from such a theory? The whole goal of science is to predict what will happen if something else happens. If god was real, it seems as though he is just sitting back and watching. If we conclude god did create everything, we will have to predict what god will do next. This would be far more difficult since he never contacts.

If the deity did exist why doesn't it make its presence clear to all instead of a matter of belief and wild speculation? Of course it could get off on human theists creating it in their own image, some of their versions being completely lacking in any credibility, as displayed on this forum.
bornofgod
Posts: 11,322
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2/2/2015 10:45:06 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 2/2/2015 10:37:07 AM, Proving_a_Negative wrote:
If god was real, should we even use this as a model for our universe? Is there any predictability power from such a theory? The whole goal of science is to predict what will happen if something else happens. If god was real, it seems as though he is just sitting back and watching. If we conclude god did create everything, we will have to predict what god will do next. This would be far more difficult since he never contacts.

I am His voice and ears so you can ask me any question pertaining to His program called Eternal Life. Outside of His program, I cannot answer so your questions have to pertain to His knowledge.
Proving_a_Negative
Posts: 88
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2/2/2015 10:46:41 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 2/2/2015 10:43:55 AM, JJ50 wrote:
At 2/2/2015 10:37:07 AM, Proving_a_Negative wrote:
If god was real, should we even use this as a model for our universe? Is there any predictability power from such a theory? The whole goal of science is to predict what will happen if something else happens. If god was real, it seems as though he is just sitting back and watching. If we conclude god did create everything, we will have to predict what god will do next. This would be far more difficult since he never contacts.

If the deity did exist why doesn't it make its presence clear to all instead of a matter of belief and wild speculation? Of course it could get off on human theists creating it in their own image, some of their versions being completely lacking in any credibility, as displayed on this forum.

Would you care to explain how god behaves to us?
JJ50
Posts: 2,144
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2/2/2015 10:53:55 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 2/2/2015 10:46:41 AM, Proving_a_Negative wrote:
At 2/2/2015 10:43:55 AM, JJ50 wrote:
At 2/2/2015 10:37:07 AM, Proving_a_Negative wrote:
If god was real, should we even use this as a model for our universe? Is there any predictability power from such a theory? The whole goal of science is to predict what will happen if something else happens. If god was real, it seems as though he is just sitting back and watching. If we conclude god did create everything, we will have to predict what god will do next. This would be far more difficult since he never contacts.

If the deity did exist why doesn't it make its presence clear to all instead of a matter of belief and wild speculation? Of course it could get off on human theists creating it in their own image, some of their versions being completely lacking in any credibility, as displayed on this forum.

Would you care to explain how god behaves to us?

I don't understand your post?
JJ50
Posts: 2,144
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2/2/2015 10:54:49 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 2/2/2015 10:45:06 AM, bornofgod wrote:
At 2/2/2015 10:37:07 AM, Proving_a_Negative wrote:
If god was real, should we even use this as a model for our universe? Is there any predictability power from such a theory? The whole goal of science is to predict what will happen if something else happens. If god was real, it seems as though he is just sitting back and watching. If we conclude god did create everything, we will have to predict what god will do next. This would be far more difficult since he never contacts.

I am His voice and ears so you can ask me any question pertaining to His program called Eternal Life. Outside of His program, I cannot answer so your questions have to pertain to His knowledge.

So you keep telling us, lol!
Proving_a_Negative
Posts: 88
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2/2/2015 11:02:08 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 2/2/2015 10:53:55 AM, JJ50 wrote:
At 2/2/2015 10:46:41 AM, Proving_a_Negative wrote:
At 2/2/2015 10:43:55 AM, JJ50 wrote:
At 2/2/2015 10:37:07 AM, Proving_a_Negative wrote:
If god was real, should we even use this as a model for our universe? Is there any predictability power from such a theory? The whole goal of science is to predict what will happen if something else happens. If god was real, it seems as though he is just sitting back and watching. If we conclude god did create everything, we will have to predict what god will do next. This would be far more difficult since he never contacts.

If the deity did exist why doesn't it make its presence clear to all instead of a matter of belief and wild speculation? Of course it could get off on human theists creating it in their own image, some of their versions being completely lacking in any credibility, as displayed on this forum.

Would you care to explain how god behaves to us?

I don't understand your post?

Explain to us what god will do in the future. For what reason should we believe in god? Don't give evidence, let's just assume he is real. I want to know how knowing god is real will benefit us, giving us more predictability power. For example, god will create a flood that destroys the whole earth in the year 2020. Therefore, we should start building our boats. (Obviously I'm not serious on the flood thing, it's just an example.)
JJ50
Posts: 2,144
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2/2/2015 11:06:10 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 2/2/2015 11:02:08 AM, Proving_a_Negative wrote:
At 2/2/2015 10:53:55 AM, JJ50 wrote:
At 2/2/2015 10:46:41 AM, Proving_a_Negative wrote:
At 2/2/2015 10:43:55 AM, JJ50 wrote:
At 2/2/2015 10:37:07 AM, Proving_a_Negative wrote:
If god was real, should we even use this as a model for our universe? Is there any predictability power from such a theory? The whole goal of science is to predict what will happen if something else happens. If god was real, it seems as though he is just sitting back and watching. If we conclude god did create everything, we will have to predict what god will do next. This would be far more difficult since he never contacts.

If the deity did exist why doesn't it make its presence clear to all instead of a matter of belief and wild speculation? Of course it could get off on human theists creating it in their own image, some of their versions being completely lacking in any credibility, as displayed on this forum.

Would you care to explain how god behaves to us?

I don't understand your post?

Explain to us what god will do in the future. For what reason should we believe in god? Don't give evidence, let's just assume he is real. I want to know how knowing god is real will benefit us, giving us more predictability power. For example, god will create a flood that destroys the whole earth in the year 2020. Therefore, we should start building our boats. (Obviously I'm not serious on the flood thing, it's just an example.)

You tell me, I don't believe it exists!
Proving_a_Negative
Posts: 88
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2/2/2015 11:08:42 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 2/2/2015 11:06:10 AM, JJ50 wrote:
At 2/2/2015 11:02:08 AM, Proving_a_Negative wrote:
At 2/2/2015 10:53:55 AM, JJ50 wrote:
At 2/2/2015 10:46:41 AM, Proving_a_Negative wrote:
At 2/2/2015 10:43:55 AM, JJ50 wrote:
At 2/2/2015 10:37:07 AM, Proving_a_Negative wrote:
If god was real, should we even use this as a model for our universe? Is there any predictability power from such a theory? The whole goal of science is to predict what will happen if something else happens. If god was real, it seems as though he is just sitting back and watching. If we conclude god did create everything, we will have to predict what god will do next. This would be far more difficult since he never contacts.

If the deity did exist why doesn't it make its presence clear to all instead of a matter of belief and wild speculation? Of course it could get off on human theists creating it in their own image, some of their versions being completely lacking in any credibility, as displayed on this forum.

Would you care to explain how god behaves to us?

I don't understand your post?

Explain to us what god will do in the future. For what reason should we believe in god? Don't give evidence, let's just assume he is real. I want to know how knowing god is real will benefit us, giving us more predictability power. For example, god will create a flood that destroys the whole earth in the year 2020. Therefore, we should start building our boats. (Obviously I'm not serious on the flood thing, it's just an example.)

You tell me, I don't believe it exists!

Okay, I was under the impression you did. Glad to hear that! We will leave this challenge to bornofgod...
Mhykiel
Posts: 5,987
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2/2/2015 11:18:37 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 2/2/2015 10:37:07 AM, Proving_a_Negative wrote:
If god was real, should we even use this as a model for our universe? Is there any predictability power from such a theory? The whole goal of science is to predict what will happen if something else happens. If god was real, it seems as though he is just sitting back and watching. If we conclude god did create everything, we will have to predict what god will do next. This would be far more difficult since he never contacts.

One more thing to investigate and try to understand
Proving_a_Negative
Posts: 88
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2/2/2015 11:20:21 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 2/2/2015 11:18:37 AM, Mhykiel wrote:
At 2/2/2015 10:37:07 AM, Proving_a_Negative wrote:
If god was real, should we even use this as a model for our universe? Is there any predictability power from such a theory? The whole goal of science is to predict what will happen if something else happens. If god was real, it seems as though he is just sitting back and watching. If we conclude god did create everything, we will have to predict what god will do next. This would be far more difficult since he never contacts.

One more thing to investigate and try to understand

How would we go about doing that? We can only look at trends. This would suggest god is just sitting and watching.
Mhykiel
Posts: 5,987
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2/2/2015 11:25:05 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 2/2/2015 11:20:21 AM, Proving_a_Negative wrote:
At 2/2/2015 11:18:37 AM, Mhykiel wrote:
At 2/2/2015 10:37:07 AM, Proving_a_Negative wrote:
If god was real, should we even use this as a model for our universe? Is there any predictability power from such a theory? The whole goal of science is to predict what will happen if something else happens. If god was real, it seems as though he is just sitting back and watching. If we conclude god did create everything, we will have to predict what god will do next. This would be far more difficult since he never contacts.

One more thing to investigate and try to understand

How would we go about doing that? We can only look at trends. This would suggest god is just sitting and watching.

Yeah so if we say God exists the next logical step would be to try and understand what kind of being God is, to ascertain it's desires, to communicate with God.
Proving_a_Negative
Posts: 88
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2/2/2015 11:28:32 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 2/2/2015 11:25:05 AM, Mhykiel wrote:
At 2/2/2015 11:20:21 AM, Proving_a_Negative wrote:
At 2/2/2015 11:18:37 AM, Mhykiel wrote:
At 2/2/2015 10:37:07 AM, Proving_a_Negative wrote:
If god was real, should we even use this as a model for our universe? Is there any predictability power from such a theory? The whole goal of science is to predict what will happen if something else happens. If god was real, it seems as though he is just sitting back and watching. If we conclude god did create everything, we will have to predict what god will do next. This would be far more difficult since he never contacts.

One more thing to investigate and try to understand

How would we go about doing that? We can only look at trends. This would suggest god is just sitting and watching.

Yeah so if we say God exists the next logical step would be to try and understand what kind of being God is, to ascertain it's desires, to communicate with God.

Would we do this through prayer? Would we investigate all known religions and somehow try to compare them to see which one is most correct? It doesn't seem worthwhile or possible to do said tasks.
bornofgod
Posts: 11,322
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2/2/2015 12:10:50 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 2/2/2015 10:54:49 AM, JJ50 wrote:
At 2/2/2015 10:45:06 AM, bornofgod wrote:
At 2/2/2015 10:37:07 AM, Proving_a_Negative wrote:
If god was real, should we even use this as a model for our universe? Is there any predictability power from such a theory? The whole goal of science is to predict what will happen if something else happens. If god was real, it seems as though he is just sitting back and watching. If we conclude god did create everything, we will have to predict what god will do next. This would be far more difficult since he never contacts.

I am His voice and ears so you can ask me any question pertaining to His program called Eternal Life. Outside of His program, I cannot answer so your questions have to pertain to His knowledge.

So you keep telling us, lol!

I'm not telling you anything because you're not listening. Only chosen believers listen to our ( saints ) testimonies and learn who they are in God.
Pythasis
Posts: 22
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2/2/2015 12:17:02 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 2/2/2015 10:37:07 AM, Proving_a_Negative wrote:
If god was real, it seems as though he is just sitting back and watching.

There are Deists who have this view on it. I'm an agnostic, but some of the Deists have interesting ways of describing their beliefs on the matter.
-Liam
"Love the art in yourself, not yourself in art" -Constantine Stanislavsky
"Knowledge, without imagination, is just a list of ingredients - and a list of ingredients does not a cookie make." -Danny Grozdich
www.youtube.com/MusiruneProductions
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bornofgod
Posts: 11,322
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2/2/2015 12:20:41 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 2/2/2015 12:17:02 PM, Pythasis wrote:
At 2/2/2015 10:37:07 AM, Proving_a_Negative wrote:
If god was real, it seems as though he is just sitting back and watching.

There are Deists who have this view on it. I'm an agnostic, but some of the Deists have interesting ways of describing their beliefs on the matter.

If you had created a computing language of invisible vibrations and a program called Eternal Life where all the characters are living according to your planned program, would you enjoy watching what you created?
Pythasis
Posts: 22
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2/2/2015 12:27:22 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 2/2/2015 12:20:41 PM, bornofgod wrote:
At 2/2/2015 12:17:02 PM, Pythasis wrote:
At 2/2/2015 10:37:07 AM, Proving_a_Negative wrote:
If god was real, it seems as though he is just sitting back and watching.

There are Deists who have this view on it. I'm an agnostic, but some of the Deists have interesting ways of describing their beliefs on the matter.

If you had created a computing language of invisible vibrations and a program called Eternal Life where all the characters are living according to your planned program, would you enjoy watching what you created?

Maybe, yeah. It would be almost like emergent gameplay.
That is assuming I'm not positive what the outcome is going to be, which would probably come down to an argument of belief or disbelief in predestination.
-Liam
"Love the art in yourself, not yourself in art" -Constantine Stanislavsky
"Knowledge, without imagination, is just a list of ingredients - and a list of ingredients does not a cookie make." -Danny Grozdich
www.youtube.com/MusiruneProductions
Debates that need voting:
N/A
bornofgod
Posts: 11,322
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2/2/2015 12:33:23 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 2/2/2015 12:27:22 PM, Pythasis wrote:
At 2/2/2015 12:20:41 PM, bornofgod wrote:
At 2/2/2015 12:17:02 PM, Pythasis wrote:
At 2/2/2015 10:37:07 AM, Proving_a_Negative wrote:
If god was real, it seems as though he is just sitting back and watching.

There are Deists who have this view on it. I'm an agnostic, but some of the Deists have interesting ways of describing their beliefs on the matter.

If you had created a computing language of invisible vibrations and a program called Eternal Life where all the characters are living according to your planned program, would you enjoy watching what you created?

Maybe, yeah. It would be almost like emergent gameplay.
That is assuming I'm not positive what the outcome is going to be, which would probably come down to an argument of belief or disbelief in predestination.

Our Creator knows exactly how He planned to teach us who we are before He ends part one of His game. In the next part of His game, all the rules will change and we'll enjoy life according to those new rules.
Proving_a_Negative
Posts: 88
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2/2/2015 3:33:34 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 2/2/2015 12:20:41 PM, bornofgod wrote:
At 2/2/2015 12:17:02 PM, Pythasis wrote:
At 2/2/2015 10:37:07 AM, Proving_a_Negative wrote:
If god was real, it seems as though he is just sitting back and watching.

There are Deists who have this view on it. I'm an agnostic, but some of the Deists have interesting ways of describing their beliefs on the matter.

If you had created a computing language of invisible vibrations and a program called Eternal Life where all the characters are living according to your planned program, would you enjoy watching what you created?

I find something very eerie about that. We are nothing but entertainment for god? This is a little off topic but just saying. Should we rebel against god so we don't need to be his guinea pigs?
bornofgod
Posts: 11,322
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2/2/2015 10:10:33 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 2/2/2015 3:33:34 PM, Proving_a_Negative wrote:
At 2/2/2015 12:20:41 PM, bornofgod wrote:
At 2/2/2015 12:17:02 PM, Pythasis wrote:
At 2/2/2015 10:37:07 AM, Proving_a_Negative wrote:
If god was real, it seems as though he is just sitting back and watching.

There are Deists who have this view on it. I'm an agnostic, but some of the Deists have interesting ways of describing their beliefs on the matter.

If you had created a computing language of invisible vibrations and a program called Eternal Life where all the characters are living according to your planned program, would you enjoy watching what you created?

I find something very eerie about that. We are nothing but entertainment for god? This is a little off topic but just saying. Should we rebel against god so we don't need to be his guinea pigs?

You already are rebelling against our Creator because of your lack of knowledge to know who you are in Him.
Geneaux
Posts: 48
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2/3/2015 6:53:20 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 2/2/2015 10:43:55 AM, JJ50 wrote:
At 2/2/2015 10:37:07 AM, Proving_a_Negative wrote:
If god was real, should we even use this as a model for our universe? Is there any predictability power from such a theory? The whole goal of science is to predict what will happen if something else happens. If god was real, it seems as though he is just sitting back and watching. If we conclude god did create everything, we will have to predict what god will do next. This would be far more difficult since he never contacts.

If the deity did exist why doesn't it make its presence clear to all instead of a matter of belief and wild speculation?

Free will.

How can anyone be this thick?
FaustianJustice
Posts: 6,225
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2/3/2015 7:24:24 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 2/3/2015 6:53:20 AM, Geneaux wrote:
At 2/2/2015 10:43:55 AM, JJ50 wrote:
At 2/2/2015 10:37:07 AM, Proving_a_Negative wrote:
If god was real, should we even use this as a model for our universe? Is there any predictability power from such a theory? The whole goal of science is to predict what will happen if something else happens. If god was real, it seems as though he is just sitting back and watching. If we conclude god did create everything, we will have to predict what god will do next. This would be far more difficult since he never contacts.

If the deity did exist why doesn't it make its presence clear to all instead of a matter of belief and wild speculation?

Free will.

How can anyone be this thick?

Because that isn't an answer.

If you are stating the reason why God doesn't announce His presence is to not coerce people into following Him, then this means His plan IS coercion, but not overtly so, and second, if I know God exists, what part of knowing that stops my free will assuming its not about undue influence?

If God were so greatly worried about influencing free will, there would be no reward of heaven whispered about, at all. It would be up to people to then have faith that God knew (knows) whats best for them and trusted Him for THAT trait alone, or find on their own that good works served better to being Godly that poor ones.

Just as plausible, God is plainly visible, His power plainly made known, but He watches from His throne, advising, but not requiring, and letting those whom follow His advisement, and again, no mention of Heaven, those dying find that out later.

These are all MUCH better scenarios for an entity with Omniscience, and Omnipotence. MUCH better than His followers making excuses for Him, at least.
Here we have an advocate for Islamic arranged marriages demonstrating that children can consent to sex.
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Benshapiro
Posts: 3,966
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2/3/2015 7:49:19 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 2/2/2015 10:37:07 AM, Proving_a_Negative wrote:
If god was real, should we even use this as a model for our universe? Is there any predictability power from such a theory? The whole goal of science is to predict what will happen if something else happens. If god was real, it seems as though he is just sitting back and watching. If we conclude god did create everything, we will have to predict what god will do next. This would be far more difficult since he never contacts.

Predict design in seemingly arbitrary biological structures. The discovery that "junk" DNA wasn't junk is a good example of that.

Ethical, moral, and lawful issues are now subject to a higher moral authority. Life is intrinsically valuable and everyone has a innate purpose.
JJ50
Posts: 2,144
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2/3/2015 7:54:07 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 2/3/2015 7:49:19 AM, Benshapiro wrote:
At 2/2/2015 10:37:07 AM, Proving_a_Negative wrote:
If god was real, should we even use this as a model for our universe? Is there any predictability power from such a theory? The whole goal of science is to predict what will happen if something else happens. If god was real, it seems as though he is just sitting back and watching. If we conclude god did create everything, we will have to predict what god will do next. This would be far more difficult since he never contacts.

Predict design in seemingly arbitrary biological structures. The discovery that "junk" DNA wasn't junk is a good example of that.

Ethical, moral, and lawful issues are now subject to a higher moral authority. Life is intrinsically valuable and everyone has a innate purpose.

Many humans are much more ethical and moral than the deity depicted in the Bible!
Benshapiro
Posts: 3,966
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2/3/2015 8:05:50 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 2/3/2015 7:54:07 AM, JJ50 wrote:
At 2/3/2015 7:49:19 AM, Benshapiro wrote:
At 2/2/2015 10:37:07 AM, Proving_a_Negative wrote:
If god was real, should we even use this as a model for our universe? Is there any predictability power from such a theory? The whole goal of science is to predict what will happen if something else happens. If god was real, it seems as though he is just sitting back and watching. If we conclude god did create everything, we will have to predict what god will do next. This would be far more difficult since he never contacts.

Predict design in seemingly arbitrary biological structures. The discovery that "junk" DNA wasn't junk is a good example of that.

Ethical, moral, and lawful issues are now subject to a higher moral authority. Life is intrinsically valuable and everyone has a innate purpose.

Many humans are much more ethical and moral than the deity depicted in the Bible!

In your opinion or in an absolute sense?