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Should we worship Christ.

MadCornishBiker
Posts: 23,302
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2/4/2015 6:43:07 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
Yes we should, but should we worship him to the same level as his father?

NO!

2 Corinthians 1:5 ASV(i) 5 For as the sufferings of Christ abound unto us, even so our comfort also aboundeth through Christ.

Notice, through Christ, not from him.

Romans 2:16 ASV(i) 16 in the day when God shall judge the secrets of men, according to my gospel, by Jesus Christ.

Notice, it is still God doing the judging, but by means of his son, since God gave him authority to do so.

1 John 4:9 ASV(i) 9 Herein was the love of God manifested in us, that God hath sent his only begotten Son into the world that we might live through him.

Notice that God sent his only begotten son.

This actually tells us two things:

That he was subservient to God before he was sent.

That he was God"s only begotten son before he was sent.

Need I go on. I could list dozens of scripture, from any translation, all of which show that Christ was always subservient to God even before he was sent, and that he was God"s son before he was sent, also that Christ did not give us salvation, but that he is the means through which God gives us salvation.

Worthy of worship?

Yes.

Worthy of the same worship as his father?

No!

Check it out, and you will see.

Get hold of a good reference bible and check the cross referenced scriptures.

God and Christ are not, and never could be teh same, or on the same level.

They are truly Father and Son.
MadCornishBiker
Posts: 23,302
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2/4/2015 7:47:12 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 2/4/2015 7:11:07 AM, uncung wrote:
what if we dont worship him? you cant answer it.

Well if you don't give both God and Christ the levels of respect and worship they deserve, then this life is all you will get, not the eternal one that comes on the end of this system of things, when all human governments are destroyed, when all false religion has gone, including all the false Christianities, and Stan will no longer be in charge.

You can't expect to be allowed to enjoy life if you cannot appreciate the one who gives you it. Let alone if you can't treat your life and everyone else's with full and equal respect.
JJ50
Posts: 2,144
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2/4/2015 7:51:40 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 2/4/2015 7:47:12 AM, MadCornishBiker wrote:
At 2/4/2015 7:11:07 AM, uncung wrote:
what if we dont worship him? you cant answer it.

Well if you don't give both God and Christ the levels of respect and worship they deserve, then this life is all you will get, not the eternal one that comes on the end of this system of things, when all human governments are destroyed, when all false religion has gone, including all the false Christianities, and Stan will no longer be in charge.

You can't expect to be allowed to enjoy life if you cannot appreciate the one who gives you it. Let alone if you can't treat your life and everyone else's with full and equal respect.

Jesus merited the same amount respect as any other reasonable human, no more or less. Respect is not the same as worship. As for the deity it doesn't deserve any respect at all, as it is so evil, if it actually exists.
MadCornishBiker
Posts: 23,302
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2/4/2015 7:58:32 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 2/4/2015 7:51:40 AM, JJ50 wrote:
At 2/4/2015 7:47:12 AM, MadCornishBiker wrote:
At 2/4/2015 7:11:07 AM, uncung wrote:
what if we dont worship him? you cant answer it.

Well if you don't give both God and Christ the levels of respect and worship they deserve, then this life is all you will get, not the eternal one that comes on the end of this system of things, when all human governments are destroyed, when all false religion has gone, including all the false Christianities, and Stan will no longer be in charge.

You can't expect to be allowed to enjoy life if you cannot appreciate the one who gives you it. Let alone if you can't treat your life and everyone else's with full and equal respect.

Jesus merited the same amount respect as any other reasonable human, no more or less. Respect is not the same as worship. As for the deity it doesn't deserve any respect at all, as it is so evil, if it actually exists.

Actually respect is the lowest level of worship, in scriptural terms if not human ones.

There is absolutely nothing evil about God, who definitely does exist. He is a God of Love Wisdom Justice and Mercy in perfect balance.

All your statement shows is that you know little about what scripture actually teaches about him.

Christ deserves respect because in basis he was God's won son who allowed him to be sent to earth to buy us the right to perfect human life that Adam threw away.

For what he suffered for our sakes he deserves respect.
MadCornishBiker
Posts: 23,302
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2/4/2015 7:59:24 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 2/4/2015 7:43:22 AM, JJ50 wrote:
No one or thing should be worshipped, imo!

That is your choice, but as an opinion it is flawed.
Harikrish
Posts: 11,010
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2/4/2015 8:10:14 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 2/4/2015 6:43:07 AM, MadCornishBiker wrote:
Yes we should, but should we worship him to the same level as his father?

NO!

2 Corinthians 1:5 ASV(i) 5 For as the sufferings of Christ abound unto us, even so our comfort also aboundeth through Christ.

Notice, through Christ, not from him.

Romans 2:16 ASV(i) 16 in the day when God shall judge the secrets of men, according to my gospel, by Jesus Christ.

Notice, it is still God doing the judging, but by means of his son, since God gave him authority to do so.

1 John 4:9 ASV(i) 9 Herein was the love of God manifested in us, that God hath sent his only begotten Son into the world that we might live through him.

Notice that God sent his only begotten son.

This actually tells us two things:

That he was subservient to God before he was sent.

That he was God"s only begotten son before he was sent.

Need I go on. I could list dozens of scripture, from any translation, all of which show that Christ was always subservient to God even before he was sent, and that he was God"s son before he was sent, also that Christ did not give us salvation, but that he is the means through which God gives us salvation.

Worthy of worship?

Yes.

Worthy of the same worship as his father?

No!

Check it out, and you will see.

Get hold of a good reference bible and check the cross referenced scriptures.

God and Christ are not, and never could be teh same, or on the same level.

They are truly Father and Son.
From the Apologetic Press:

"For more than half of a century, Jehovah"s Witnesses taught that it was acceptable to worship Jesus. Now, however, they claim it is unscriptural. Such inconsistency regarding the nature of Christ (which is no small matter!) reveals to the honest truth seeker that the Watchtower Bible and Tract Society is an advocate of false doctrine."
JJ50
Posts: 2,144
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2/4/2015 8:15:00 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 2/4/2015 7:59:24 AM, MadCornishBiker wrote:
At 2/4/2015 7:43:22 AM, JJ50 wrote:
No one or thing should be worshipped, imo!

That is your choice, but as an opinion it is flawed.

As I believe yours to be !
MadCornishBiker
Posts: 23,302
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2/4/2015 8:45:47 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 2/4/2015 8:15:00 AM, JJ50 wrote:
At 2/4/2015 7:59:24 AM, MadCornishBiker wrote:
At 2/4/2015 7:43:22 AM, JJ50 wrote:
No one or thing should be worshipped, imo!

That is your choice, but as an opinion it is flawed.

As I believe yours to be !

As I say, your choice, your loss.
MadCornishBiker
Posts: 23,302
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2/4/2015 8:46:41 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 2/4/2015 8:10:14 AM, Harikrish wrote:
At 2/4/2015 6:43:07 AM, MadCornishBiker wrote:
Yes we should, but should we worship him to the same level as his father?

NO!

2 Corinthians 1:5 ASV(i) 5 For as the sufferings of Christ abound unto us, even so our comfort also aboundeth through Christ.

Notice, through Christ, not from him.

Romans 2:16 ASV(i) 16 in the day when God shall judge the secrets of men, according to my gospel, by Jesus Christ.

Notice, it is still God doing the judging, but by means of his son, since God gave him authority to do so.

1 John 4:9 ASV(i) 9 Herein was the love of God manifested in us, that God hath sent his only begotten Son into the world that we might live through him.

Notice that God sent his only begotten son.

This actually tells us two things:

That he was subservient to God before he was sent.

That he was God"s only begotten son before he was sent.

Need I go on. I could list dozens of scripture, from any translation, all of which show that Christ was always subservient to God even before he was sent, and that he was God"s son before he was sent, also that Christ did not give us salvation, but that he is the means through which God gives us salvation.

Worthy of worship?

Yes.

Worthy of the same worship as his father?

No!

Check it out, and you will see.

Get hold of a good reference bible and check the cross referenced scriptures.

God and Christ are not, and never could be teh same, or on the same level.

They are truly Father and Son.
From the Apologetic Press:

"For more than half of a century, Jehovah"s Witnesses taught that it was acceptable to worship Jesus. Now, however, they claim it is unscriptural. Such inconsistency regarding the nature of Christ (which is no small matter!) reveals to the honest truth seeker that the Watchtower Bible and Tract Society is an advocate of false doctrine."

They have always taught that Jehovah should be worshipped more, as they do now.
JJ50
Posts: 2,144
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2/4/2015 8:51:11 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 2/4/2015 8:45:47 AM, MadCornishBiker wrote:
At 2/4/2015 8:15:00 AM, JJ50 wrote:
At 2/4/2015 7:59:24 AM, MadCornishBiker wrote:
At 2/4/2015 7:43:22 AM, JJ50 wrote:
No one or thing should be worshipped, imo!

That is your choice, but as an opinion it is flawed.

As I believe yours to be !

As I say, your choice, your loss.

Hardly a loss as far as I am concerned, I felt liberated when I lost my faith!
Harikrish
Posts: 11,010
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2/4/2015 8:55:29 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 2/4/2015 8:46:41 AM, MadCornishBiker wrote:
At 2/4/2015 8:10:14 AM, Harikrish wrote:
At 2/4/2015 6:43:07 AM, MadCornishBiker wrote:
Yes we should, but should we worship him to the same level as his father?

NO!

2 Corinthians 1:5 ASV(i) 5 For as the sufferings of Christ abound unto us, even so our comfort also aboundeth through Christ.

Notice, through Christ, not from him.

Romans 2:16 ASV(i) 16 in the day when God shall judge the secrets of men, according to my gospel, by Jesus Christ.

Notice, it is still God doing the judging, but by means of his son, since God gave him authority to do so.

1 John 4:9 ASV(i) 9 Herein was the love of God manifested in us, that God hath sent his only begotten Son into the world that we might live through him.

Notice that God sent his only begotten son.

This actually tells us two things:

That he was subservient to God before he was sent.

That he was God"s only begotten son before he was sent.

Need I go on. I could list dozens of scripture, from any translation, all of which show that Christ was always subservient to God even before he was sent, and that he was God"s son before he was sent, also that Christ did not give us salvation, but that he is the means through which God gives us salvation.

Worthy of worship?

Yes.

Worthy of the same worship as his father?

No!

Check it out, and you will see.

Get hold of a good reference bible and check the cross referenced scriptures.

God and Christ are not, and never could be teh same, or on the same level.

They are truly Father and Son.
From the Apologetic Press:

"For more than half of a century, Jehovah"s Witnesses taught that it was acceptable to worship Jesus. Now, however, they claim it is unscriptural. Such inconsistency regarding the nature of Christ (which is no small matter!) reveals to the honest truth seeker that the Watchtower Bible and Tract Society is an advocate of false doctrine."

They have always taught that Jehovah should be worshipped more, as they do now.

Not true according to the Apologetic Press.

The fact is, the Watchtower Bible and Tract Society has been terribly inconsistent in its teachings on whether or not Jesus should be worshiped. In the past few decades Jehovah"s Witnesses" Watchtower magazine has claimed that ""it is unscriptural for worshipers of the living and true God to render worship to the Son of God, Jesus Christ" (1964, p. 671; see also 2004, pp. 30-31). But, "from the beginning it was not so." Notice what Jehovah"s Witnesses used to teach in The Watchtower regarding whether or not Jesus should be worshiped:

""to worship Christ in any form cannot be wrong" (1880, p. 83).
""although we are nowhere instructed to make petitions to him, it evidently could not be improper to do so; for such a course is nowhere prohibited, and the disciples worshiped him" (1892, p. 1410).
"Yes, we believe our Lord Jesus while on earth was really worshiped, and properly so" (1898, p. 2331).
""whosoever should worship Him must also worship and bow down to Jehovah"s Chief One in that capital organization, namely, Christ Jesus"" (1945, p. 313).
Comrade_Silly_Otter
Posts: 725
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2/4/2015 9:07:19 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 2/4/2015 7:47:12 AM, MadCornishBiker wrote:
At 2/4/2015 7:11:07 AM, uncung wrote:
what if we dont worship him? you cant answer it.

Well if you don't give both God and Christ the levels of respect and worship they deserve, then this life is all you will get, not the eternal one that comes on the end of this system of things, when all human governments are destroyed, when all false religion has gone, including all the false Christianities, and Stan will no longer be in charge.

You can't expect to be allowed to enjoy life if you cannot appreciate the one who gives you it. Let alone if you can't treat your life and everyone else's with full and equal respect.

Damn that Stan, that sick bastard!
<:P

Oh please. You take a lot of things in life for granted, as do I. Its natural.
Do you believe in aliens? ( Random question go! )

Back to topic.
Why should we devote part of our lives to blindly worshiping something based on a book? Instead of focusing out energies in places like building infrastructure and supporting scientific development? ( There is no denying science has gotten us far )
Wylted
Posts: 21,167
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2/4/2015 9:08:14 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
I agree with that interpretation of the bible but this thread is stupid. No logical arguments are even made from a biblical perspective just rambling and preaching. I'm very disappointed.
Harikrish
Posts: 11,010
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2/4/2015 9:40:10 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
The Jews rejected Jesus and put him to death. The Christians worship Jesus and resurrected him. But both are still around (Jews and Christians) and still containing their sinful ways. In short you are damned if you do and damned if you don't worship Jesus.
If that isn't enough to give one a headache. Aspirins for headaches were created by a German pharmaceutical after their other remedies to eradicate pain and suffering failed.
MadCornishBiker
Posts: 23,302
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2/4/2015 12:23:20 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 2/4/2015 9:40:10 AM, Harikrish wrote:
The Jews rejected Jesus and put him to death. The Christians worship Jesus and resurrected him. But both are still around (Jews and Christians) and still containing their sinful ways. In short you are damned if you do and damned if you don't worship Jesus.
If that isn't enough to give one a headache. Aspirins for headaches were created by a German pharmaceutical after their other remedies to eradicate pain and suffering failed.

The Christians didn't resurrect him. No human has that power. Only God could do that, and did.
MadCornishBiker
Posts: 23,302
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2/4/2015 12:29:39 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 2/4/2015 9:07:19 AM, Comrade_Silly_Otter wrote:
At 2/4/2015 7:47:12 AM, MadCornishBiker wrote:
At 2/4/2015 7:11:07 AM, uncung wrote:
what if we dont worship him? you cant answer it.

Well if you don't give both God and Christ the levels of respect and worship they deserve, then this life is all you will get, not the eternal one that comes on the end of this system of things, when all human governments are destroyed, when all false religion has gone, including all the false Christianities, and Stan will no longer be in charge.

You can't expect to be allowed to enjoy life if you cannot appreciate the one who gives you it. Let alone if you can't treat your life and everyone else's with full and equal respect.

Damn that Stan, that sick bastard!
<:P

Oh please. You take a lot of things in life for granted, as do I. Its natural.
Do you believe in aliens? ( Random question go! )

Back to topic.
Why should we devote part of our lives to blindly worshiping something based on a book? Instead of focusing out energies in places like building infrastructure and supporting scientific development? ( There is no denying science has gotten us far )

Lol yes Stan is a very dangerous typo who can sneak past a spell checker, lol.

No, not when you a re a rebel as I have always been. Rebel's take nothing for granted, asnd they trust no-one. Just because we think everyone is against us doesn;t mean they aren't, lol.

No-one should devote a moment of their lives to blindly following anyone, but most do that with science.

God doesn't want blind followers, he wants poeple to serve him through knowledge not ignorance.

Yes, science has got us a lng way, we have used it to almost completely destroy our planet and are still using it to damage it beyond repair.

However it is slowly revealing more and more about God, for those with the eyes to see what it is really showing them. It will continue,to do so, and God can only benefit rfom it's discoveries since God is true.

Of course, as Jesus said about his illustrations, it all depends on if you have teh eyes to see and ears to hear, or you will miss the important bits.
MadCornishBiker
Posts: 23,302
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2/4/2015 12:32:54 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 2/4/2015 8:55:29 AM, Harikrish wrote:
At 2/4/2015 8:46:41 AM, MadCornishBiker wrote:
At 2/4/2015 8:10:14 AM, Harikrish wrote:
At 2/4/2015 6:43:07 AM, MadCornishBiker wrote:
Yes we should, but should we worship him to the same level as his father?

NO!

2 Corinthians 1:5 ASV(i) 5 For as the sufferings of Christ abound unto us, even so our comfort also aboundeth through Christ.

Notice, through Christ, not from him.

Romans 2:16 ASV(i) 16 in the day when God shall judge the secrets of men, according to my gospel, by Jesus Christ.

Notice, it is still God doing the judging, but by means of his son, since God gave him authority to do so.

1 John 4:9 ASV(i) 9 Herein was the love of God manifested in us, that God hath sent his only begotten Son into the world that we might live through him.

Notice that God sent his only begotten son.

This actually tells us two things:

That he was subservient to God before he was sent.

That he was God"s only begotten son before he was sent.

Need I go on. I could list dozens of scripture, from any translation, all of which show that Christ was always subservient to God even before he was sent, and that he was God"s son before he was sent, also that Christ did not give us salvation, but that he is the means through which God gives us salvation.

Worthy of worship?

Yes.

Worthy of the same worship as his father?

No!

Check it out, and you will see.

Get hold of a good reference bible and check the cross referenced scriptures.

God and Christ are not, and never could be teh same, or on the same level.

They are truly Father and Son.
From the Apologetic Press:

"For more than half of a century, Jehovah"s Witnesses taught that it was acceptable to worship Jesus. Now, however, they claim it is unscriptural. Such inconsistency regarding the nature of Christ (which is no small matter!) reveals to the honest truth seeker that the Watchtower Bible and Tract Society is an advocate of false doctrine."

They have always taught that Jehovah should be worshipped more, as they do now.

Not true according to the Apologetic Press.

The fact is, the Watchtower Bible and Tract Society has been terribly inconsistent in its teachings on whether or not Jesus should be worshiped. In the past few decades Jehovah"s Witnesses" Watchtower magazine has claimed that ""it is unscriptural for worshipers of the living and true God to render worship to the Son of God, Jesus Christ" (1964, p. 671; see also 2004, pp. 30-31). But, "from the beginning it was not so." Notice what Jehovah"s Witnesses used to teach in The Watchtower regarding whether or not Jesus should be worshiped:

""to worship Christ in any form cannot be wrong" (1880, p. 83).
""although we are nowhere instructed to make petitions to him, it evidently could not be improper to do so; for such a course is nowhere prohibited, and the disciples worshiped him" (1892, p. 1410).
"Yes, we believe our Lord Jesus while on earth was really worshiped, and properly so" (1898, p. 2331).
""whosoever should worship Him must also worship and bow down to Jehovah"s Chief One in that capital organization, namely, Christ Jesus"" (1945, p. 313).

Of course they would say that.

The JWs have been consistent in moving along as they gain more and more kowledge. Any who don't follow the lights (Proverbs 4:18) will be left in the dark. Every move has been a move closer to the "whole truth" which I don't doubt they will have one day. In the meantime we have to be content with what Jehovah Grants us so far.
MadCornishBiker
Posts: 23,302
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2/4/2015 12:34:40 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 2/4/2015 8:51:11 AM, JJ50 wrote:
At 2/4/2015 8:45:47 AM, MadCornishBiker wrote:
At 2/4/2015 8:15:00 AM, JJ50 wrote:
At 2/4/2015 7:59:24 AM, MadCornishBiker wrote:
At 2/4/2015 7:43:22 AM, JJ50 wrote:
No one or thing should be worshipped, imo!

That is your choice, but as an opinion it is flawed.

As I believe yours to be !

As I say, your choice, your loss.

Hardly a loss as far as I am concerned, I felt liberated when I lost my faith!

Sometmes feelings can be an illusion, only teh truth can set you free from Satan's lies, and sometimes very comfortable traps.

The freest people on this earth are the JWs and I.
Harikrish
Posts: 11,010
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2/4/2015 3:35:26 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 2/4/2015 12:34:40 PM, MadCornishBiker wrote:
At 2/4/2015 8:51:11 AM, JJ50 wrote:
At 2/4/2015 8:45:47 AM, MadCornishBiker wrote:
At 2/4/2015 8:15:00 AM, JJ50 wrote:
At 2/4/2015 7:59:24 AM, MadCornishBiker wrote:
At 2/4/2015 7:43:22 AM, JJ50 wrote:
No one or thing should be worshipped, imo!

That is your choice, but as an opinion it is flawed.

As I believe yours to be !

As I say, your choice, your loss.

Hardly a loss as far as I am concerned, I felt liberated when I lost my faith!

Sometmes feelings can be an illusion, only teh truth can set you free from Satan's lies, and sometimes very comfortable traps.

The freest people on this earth are the JWs and I.

People belonging to a cult like the JW are not free. I set many free by telling them they are not obligated to knock on my door and even got my neighbours to post the same not obligated sign to JW on their doors.
MadCornishBiker
Posts: 23,302
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2/4/2015 6:40:47 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 2/4/2015 3:35:26 PM, Harikrish wrote:
At 2/4/2015 12:34:40 PM, MadCornishBiker wrote:
At 2/4/2015 8:51:11 AM, JJ50 wrote:
At 2/4/2015 8:45:47 AM, MadCornishBiker wrote:
At 2/4/2015 8:15:00 AM, JJ50 wrote:
At 2/4/2015 7:59:24 AM, MadCornishBiker wrote:
At 2/4/2015 7:43:22 AM, JJ50 wrote:
No one or thing should be worshipped, imo!

That is your choice, but as an opinion it is flawed.

As I believe yours to be !

As I say, your choice, your loss.

Hardly a loss as far as I am concerned, I felt liberated when I lost my faith!

Sometmes feelings can be an illusion, only teh truth can set you free from Satan's lies, and sometimes very comfortable traps.

The freest people on this earth are the JWs and I.

People belonging to a cult like the JW are not free. I set many free by telling them they are not obligated to knock on my door and even got my neighbours to post the same not obligated sign to JW on their doors.

No-one in God's organisatio9n is obligated to do anythhing thier faith doesn't drive them to do, but you have not set any free, you aren't free yourself, and only God can set anyone free, as he ahs me, and all JWs..
bornofgod
Posts: 11,322
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2/4/2015 8:49:31 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 2/4/2015 6:43:07 AM, MadCornishBiker wrote:
Yes we should, but should we worship him to the same level as his father?

NO!

2 Corinthians 1:5 ASV(i) 5 For as the sufferings of Christ abound unto us, even so our comfort also aboundeth through Christ.

Notice, through Christ, not from him.

Romans 2:16 ASV(i) 16 in the day when God shall judge the secrets of men, according to my gospel, by Jesus Christ.

Notice, it is still God doing the judging, but by means of his son, since God gave him authority to do so.

1 John 4:9 ASV(i) 9 Herein was the love of God manifested in us, that God hath sent his only begotten Son into the world that we might live through him.

Notice that God sent his only begotten son.

This actually tells us two things:

That he was subservient to God before he was sent.

That he was God"s only begotten son before he was sent.

Need I go on. I could list dozens of scripture, from any translation, all of which show that Christ was always subservient to God even before he was sent, and that he was God"s son before he was sent, also that Christ did not give us salvation, but that he is the means through which God gives us salvation.

Worthy of worship?

Yes.

Worthy of the same worship as his father?

No!

Check it out, and you will see.

Get hold of a good reference bible and check the cross referenced scriptures.

God and Christ are not, and never could be teh same, or on the same level.

They are truly Father and Son.

It would help if you knew what "Christ" meant. How can you keep referring to Christ when you have no clue what it means?
bornofgod
Posts: 11,322
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2/4/2015 8:52:14 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
There are many symbolic names that mean the same exact thing as Christ such as the Word of God, Kingdom of Heaven, Son of God, Holy Spirit, Counselor, Breath of Life, Tree of Life, Book of Life, Zion, Kingdom of Jesus Christ, Kingdom of God, Kingdom of the Spirit, etc. All these symbolic names have a deeper meaning to them. Does anyone know what these names mean?
ChrisL
Posts: 136
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2/4/2015 10:00:10 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 2/4/2015 6:43:07 AM, MadCornishBiker wrote:
Yes we should, but should we worship him to the same level as his father?

NO!

2 Corinthians 1:5 ASV(i) 5 For as the sufferings of Christ abound unto us, even so our comfort also aboundeth through Christ.

Notice, through Christ, not from him.

Romans 2:16 ASV(i) 16 in the day when God shall judge the secrets of men, according to my gospel, by Jesus Christ.

Notice, it is still God doing the judging, but by means of his son, since God gave him authority to do so.

1 John 4:9 ASV(i) 9 Herein was the love of God manifested in us, that God hath sent his only begotten Son into the world that we might live through him.

Notice that God sent his only begotten son.

This actually tells us two things:

That he was subservient to God before he was sent.

That he was God"s only begotten son before he was sent.

Need I go on. I could list dozens of scripture, from any translation, all of which show that Christ was always subservient to God even before he was sent, and that he was God"s son before he was sent, also that Christ did not give us salvation, but that he is the means through which God gives us salvation.

Worthy of worship?

Yes.

Worthy of the same worship as his father?

No!

Check it out, and you will see.

Get hold of a good reference bible and check the cross referenced scriptures.

God and Christ are not, and never could be teh same, or on the same level.

They are truly Father and Son.

Can you pls explain what in the world is going on in Rev 5:6-14 than? Looks like Jesus is receiving heavenly worship alongside the father.

And I saw between the throne (with the four living creatures) and the elders a Lamb standing, as if slain, having seven horns and seven eyes, which are the seven Spirits of God, sent out into all the earth. And He came and took the book out of the right hand of Him who sat on the throne. When He had taken the book, the four living creatures and the twenty-four elders fell down before the Lamb, each one holding a harp and golden bowls full of incense, which are the prayers of the saints. And they sang a new song, saying, "Worthy are You to take the book and to break its seals; for You were slain, and purchased for God with Your blood men from every tribe and tongue and people and nation. "You have made them to be a kingdom and priests to our God; and they will reign upon the earth." Then I looked, and I heard the voice of many angels around the throne and the living creatures and the elders; and the number of them was myriads of myriads, and thousands of thousands, saying with a loud voice, "Worthy is the Lamb that was slain to receive power and riches and wisdom and might and honor and glory and blessing." And every created thing which is in heaven and on the earth and under the earth and on the sea, and all things in them, I heard saying, "To Him who sits on the throne, and to the Lamb, be blessing and honor and glory and dominion forever and ever." And the four living creatures kept saying, "Amen." And the elders fell down and worshiped. (R37;RevelationR36; R37;5R36;:R37;6-14R36; NASB)
ChrisL
Posts: 136
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2/4/2015 10:04:58 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 2/4/2015 6:43:07 AM, MadCornishBiker wrote:
Yes we should, but should we worship him to the same level as his father?

NO!

2 Corinthians 1:5 ASV(i) 5 For as the sufferings of Christ abound unto us, even so our comfort also aboundeth through Christ.

Notice, through Christ, not from him.

Romans 2:16 ASV(i) 16 in the day when God shall judge the secrets of men, according to my gospel, by Jesus Christ.

Notice, it is still God doing the judging, but by means of his son, since God gave him authority to do so.

1 John 4:9 ASV(i) 9 Herein was the love of God manifested in us, that God hath sent his only begotten Son into the world that we might live through him.

Notice that God sent his only begotten son.

This actually tells us two things:

That he was subservient to God before he was sent.

That he was God"s only begotten son before he was sent.

Need I go on. I could list dozens of scripture, from any translation, all of which show that Christ was always subservient to God even before he was sent, and that he was God"s son before he was sent, also that Christ did not give us salvation, but that he is the means through which God gives us salvation.

Worthy of worship?

Yes.

Worthy of the same worship as his father?

No!

Check it out, and you will see.

Get hold of a good reference bible and check the cross referenced scriptures.

God and Christ are not, and never could be teh same, or on the same level.

They are truly Father and Son.

Incase you forgot, this is what I wrote regarding Rev 5:6-14 in my opening statement from our debate last year. You never addressed it then, but perhaps you can now.

And last but not least, one of the most profound text in all of scripture, Revelations 5:6-14(pls read). The context here is heavenly worship tracing back to the beginning of chapter 4. In 5:3 the dilemma is presented that no one can be found worthy to open the scroll with seven seals. In vs 5 it is stated that one worthy was found, and the description is clearly Jesus. In vs 6 Jesus is referred to as the lamb and vs 7 distinguishes him from the one who sits on the throne.

With that established take a look at vs 12. All of creation begins to sing praises to the lamb in what can only be described as worship, and notice the striking similarity between what they sing to the Lamb and what is sang to the one on the throne in 4:11. Both receive glory, honor, and power. Yet Rev 4:10 tells us the one one the throne is receiving worship. The only way to remain consistent with the text is to regard 5:12 as worship as well.

But the real meat is in the last two verses of the chapter. In vs 13 John stresses that every creature everywhere began to sing to BOTH, the one on the throne and the lamb. And what is ascribed to them? Glory honor and power. Just like 4:11 & 5:12. And finally in verse 14, while they were singing to both the lamb and the one on the throne, the elders fell down and worshiped.

Once again, if Jesus is not Jehovah what is all of creation doing in Rev 5:12-14? Are they committing blasphemy in the very throne room of heaven? Or are they giving due worship to two distinct and divine persons of the Godhead? The answer is clear, but I leave it for the reader to assert.Thank you for reading.
bornofgod
Posts: 11,322
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2/4/2015 10:14:01 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 2/4/2015 10:04:58 PM, ChrisL wrote:
At 2/4/2015 6:43:07 AM, MadCornishBiker wrote:
Yes we should, but should we worship him to the same level as his father?

NO!

2 Corinthians 1:5 ASV(i) 5 For as the sufferings of Christ abound unto us, even so our comfort also aboundeth through Christ.

Notice, through Christ, not from him.

Romans 2:16 ASV(i) 16 in the day when God shall judge the secrets of men, according to my gospel, by Jesus Christ.

Notice, it is still God doing the judging, but by means of his son, since God gave him authority to do so.

1 John 4:9 ASV(i) 9 Herein was the love of God manifested in us, that God hath sent his only begotten Son into the world that we might live through him.

Notice that God sent his only begotten son.

This actually tells us two things:

That he was subservient to God before he was sent.

That he was God"s only begotten son before he was sent.

Need I go on. I could list dozens of scripture, from any translation, all of which show that Christ was always subservient to God even before he was sent, and that he was God"s son before he was sent, also that Christ did not give us salvation, but that he is the means through which God gives us salvation.

Worthy of worship?

Yes.

Worthy of the same worship as his father?

No!

Check it out, and you will see.

Get hold of a good reference bible and check the cross referenced scriptures.

God and Christ are not, and never could be teh same, or on the same level.

They are truly Father and Son.

Incase you forgot, this is what I wrote regarding Rev 5:6-14 in my opening statement from our debate last year. You never addressed it then, but perhaps you can now.

And last but not least, one of the most profound text in all of scripture, Revelations 5:6-14(pls read). The context here is heavenly worship tracing back to the beginning of chapter 4. In 5:3 the dilemma is presented that no one can be found worthy to open the scroll with seven seals. In vs 5 it is stated that one worthy was found, and the description is clearly Jesus. In vs 6 Jesus is referred to as the lamb and vs 7 distinguishes him from the one who sits on the throne.

With that established take a look at vs 12. All of creation begins to sing praises to the lamb in what can only be described as worship, and notice the striking similarity between what they sing to the Lamb and what is sang to the one on the throne in 4:11. Both receive glory, honor, and power. Yet Rev 4:10 tells us the one one the throne is receiving worship. The only way to remain consistent with the text is to regard 5:12 as worship as well.

But the real meat is in the last two verses of the chapter. In vs 13 John stresses that every creature everywhere began to sing to BOTH, the one on the throne and the lamb. And what is ascribed to them? Glory honor and power. Just like 4:11 & 5:12. And finally in verse 14, while they were singing to both the lamb and the one on the throne, the elders fell down and worshiped.

Once again, if Jesus is not Jehovah what is all of creation doing in Rev 5:12-14? Are they committing blasphemy in the very throne room of heaven? Or are they giving due worship to two distinct and divine persons of the Godhead? The answer is clear, but I leave it for the reader to assert.Thank you for reading.

Most of God's people don't know that God and His knowledge are ONE Creator. When you worship His knowledge ( Son of God ), you are worshiping the ONE who created all that knowledge.

I Samuel 2
2: There is none holy like the Lord, there is none besides thee; there is no rock like our God.
3: Talk no more so very proudly, let not arrogance come from your mouth; for the Lord is a God of knowledge, and by him actions are weighed.

Psalm 139
17: How precious to me are thy thoughts, O God! How vast is the sum of them!

Psalm 92
5: How great are thy works, O LORD! Thy thoughts are very deep!
6: The dull man cannot know, the stupid cannot understand this:
seeu46
Posts: 578
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2/4/2015 10:18:02 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 2/4/2015 8:52:14 PM, bornofgod wrote:
There are many symbolic names that mean the same exact thing as Christ such as the Word of God, Kingdom of Heaven, Son of God, Holy Spirit, Counselor, Breath of Life, Tree of Life, Book of Life, Zion, Kingdom of Jesus Christ, Kingdom of God, Kingdom of the Spirit, etc. All these symbolic names have a deeper meaning to them. Does anyone know what these names mean?

The Christ is true and lives on eternally in the real life, as this is the fake one. Jesus is not an imagination or something fake that will wither away in this fake life. But continues on in the true life that never ends, for I saw him. He does not change. You who I do not hate, a prayer for you.

Oh Jesus please reveal yourself to this person, who has a real pursuit and love for your Father and seeks God passionately . Amen!!!
bornofgod
Posts: 11,322
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2/4/2015 10:23:01 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 2/4/2015 10:18:02 PM, seeu46 wrote:
At 2/4/2015 8:52:14 PM, bornofgod wrote:
There are many symbolic names that mean the same exact thing as Christ such as the Word of God, Kingdom of Heaven, Son of God, Holy Spirit, Counselor, Breath of Life, Tree of Life, Book of Life, Zion, Kingdom of Jesus Christ, Kingdom of God, Kingdom of the Spirit, etc. All these symbolic names have a deeper meaning to them. Does anyone know what these names mean?

The Christ is true and lives on eternally in the real life, as this is the fake one. Jesus is not an imagination or something fake that will wither away in this fake life. But continues on in the true life that never ends, for I saw him. He does not change. You who I do not hate, a prayer for you.

Oh Jesus please reveal yourself to this person, who has a real pursuit and love for your Father and seeks God passionately . Amen!!!

Antichrists are those who cannot understand the voice of the Lord. You're one of them who can't understand what "Christ" means.
uncung
Posts: 3,464
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2/4/2015 10:24:42 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 2/4/2015 7:47:12 AM, MadCornishBiker wrote:
At 2/4/2015 7:11:07 AM, uncung wrote:
what if we dont worship him? you cant answer it.

Well if you don't give both God and Christ the levels of respect and worship they deserve, then this life is all you will get, not the eternal one that comes on the end of this system of things, when all human governments are destroyed, when all false religion has gone, including all the false Christianities, and Stan will no longer be in charge.

You can't expect to be allowed to enjoy life if you cannot appreciate the one who gives you it. Let alone if you can't treat your life and everyone else's with full and equal respect.

so if atheists dont worship your jesus they will remain die instead?