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The Case Against Miracles

Iredia
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2/4/2015 6:46:57 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
It's a simple one. If truly God did miracles we should regularly see of dead people being raised, amputees healed and terminally-ill people being healed without medical intervention. If things like this did happen I think there should be fewer unbelievers than at present. Neither do I think requests for these miracles are misplaced. If God is indeed good, and Jesus truly wiped peoples sins and healed them, then this should be within Christians power. Yet why do we not hear or see of it ?
Porn babes be distracting me. Dudes be stealing me stuff. I'm all about the cash from now. I'm not playing Jesus anymore.
Skyangel
Posts: 8,234
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2/4/2015 7:06:40 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 2/4/2015 6:46:57 PM, Iredia wrote:
It's a simple one. If truly God did miracles we should regularly see of dead people being raised, amputees healed and terminally-ill people being healed without medical intervention. If things like this did happen I think there should be fewer unbelievers than at present. Neither do I think requests for these miracles are misplaced. If God is indeed good, and Jesus truly wiped peoples sins and healed them, then this should be within Christians power. Yet why do we not hear or see of it ?

Because the stories are not literal. They did not literally happen in a physical sense.
They are all metaphorical and symbolic.

Eg..
Making the blind to see is not about opening physical eyes but rather about opening ones understanding and being enlightened.

Making the lame to walk is about learning to stand on ones own two feet and taking responsibility for ones own actions. It is about not needing any metaphorical crutches for support like religion or alcohol or drugs to help one escape ones own responsibilities.

Making ears hear is about listening to more than just superficial words and taking things on face value. It is about really understanding what others are talking about and the message they are trying to convey from their heart not from their mouth.

Raising dead people is not about literally raising physically dead bodies out of graves but rather about a change in a life from a state of unawareness, ignorance, sleep, etc, to a state of awareness, knowledge and understanding of the reality of life.

Forgiveness of sins in the story is an example of how we ought to treat our enemies and those who wrong us by forgiving them because people often do things without thinking about how they affect others.

Stories of miracles in the bible are not about physical phenomenon but are parables about living Life in the Way of Truth and understanding of ourselves and our fellow man rather than in a state of ignorance and in a fantasy world where believers are trying to make physical magic happen using the magic words "In the name of Jesus".
Iredia
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2/4/2015 7:12:11 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 2/4/2015 7:06:40 PM, Skyangel wrote:
At 2/4/2015 6:46:57 PM, Iredia wrote:
It's a simple one. If truly God did miracles we should regularly see of dead people being raised, amputees healed and terminally-ill people being healed without medical intervention. If things like this did happen I think there should be fewer unbelievers than at present. Neither do I think requests for these miracles are misplaced. If God is indeed good, and Jesus truly wiped peoples sins and healed them, then this should be within Christians power. Yet why do we not hear or see of it ?

Because the stories are not literal. They did not literally happen in a physical sense.
They are all metaphorical and symbolic.

Eg..
Making the blind to see is not about opening physical eyes but rather about opening ones understanding and being enlightened.

Making the lame to walk is about learning to stand on ones own two feet and taking responsibility for ones own actions. It is about not needing any metaphorical crutches for support like religion or alcohol or drugs to help one escape ones own responsibilities.

Making ears hear is about listening to more than just superficial words and taking things on face value. It is about really understanding what others are talking about and the message they are trying to convey from their heart not from their mouth.

Raising dead people is not about literally raising physically dead bodies out of graves but rather about a change in a life from a state of unawareness, ignorance, sleep, etc, to a state of awareness, knowledge and understanding of the reality of life.

Forgiveness of sins in the story is an example of how we ought to treat our enemies and those who wrong us by forgiving them because people often do things without thinking about how they affect others.

Stories of miracles in the bible are not about physical phenomenon but are parables about living Life in the Way of Truth and understanding of ourselves and our fellow man rather than in a state of ignorance and in a fantasy world where believers are trying to make physical magic happen using the magic words "In the name of Jesus".

I think if they were as metaphorical as you claimed Jesus himself would have explained it as he did for the parables. As stated in the Bible those healings supposedly happened . . . literally.
Porn babes be distracting me. Dudes be stealing me stuff. I'm all about the cash from now. I'm not playing Jesus anymore.
Skyangel
Posts: 8,234
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2/4/2015 7:31:12 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 2/4/2015 7:12:11 PM, Iredia wrote:
At 2/4/2015 7:06:40 PM, Skyangel wrote:
At 2/4/2015 6:46:57 PM, Iredia wrote:
It's a simple one. If truly God did miracles we should regularly see of dead people being raised, amputees healed and terminally-ill people being healed without medical intervention. If things like this did happen I think there should be fewer unbelievers than at present. Neither do I think requests for these miracles are misplaced. If God is indeed good, and Jesus truly wiped peoples sins and healed them, then this should be within Christians power. Yet why do we not hear or see of it ?

Because the stories are not literal. They did not literally happen in a physical sense.
They are all metaphorical and symbolic.

Eg..
Making the blind to see is not about opening physical eyes but rather about opening ones understanding and being enlightened.

Making the lame to walk is about learning to stand on ones own two feet and taking responsibility for ones own actions. It is about not needing any metaphorical crutches for support like religion or alcohol or drugs to help one escape ones own responsibilities.

Making ears hear is about listening to more than just superficial words and taking things on face value. It is about really understanding what others are talking about and the message they are trying to convey from their heart not from their mouth.

Raising dead people is not about literally raising physically dead bodies out of graves but rather about a change in a life from a state of unawareness, ignorance, sleep, etc, to a state of awareness, knowledge and understanding of the reality of life.

Forgiveness of sins in the story is an example of how we ought to treat our enemies and those who wrong us by forgiving them because people often do things without thinking about how they affect others.

Stories of miracles in the bible are not about physical phenomenon but are parables about living Life in the Way of Truth and understanding of ourselves and our fellow man rather than in a state of ignorance and in a fantasy world where believers are trying to make physical magic happen using the magic words "In the name of Jesus".

I think if they were as metaphorical as you claimed Jesus himself would have explained it as he did for the parables. As stated in the Bible those healings supposedly happened . . . literally.

The authors of the stories made up the character Jesus to personify a WAY of LIFE IN TRUTH. The stories of Jesus are all parables. They are intended to have double meanings to provoke minds to THINK about them and the many aspects in which one can put the lessons into practice in reality in order to follow the example of the one who set a good example to follow.

Have you ever seen anyone literally raise a dead person out of their graves after they have been buried for three or four days?
If not, how can the stories be literal? Did Jesus not give his disciples in the stories the same power as he had? If it was some magical supernatural power, don't you think all believers and followers of Jesus would have that same magical supernatural power? Yet in reality they do not. They are as weak and ordinary as any non believer. Doctors do better at healing the sick than faith believers do.

The stories in the bible are about spiritual realities not about physical realities. The physical things are temporary and pass away so why would any eternal being be worrying about temporary worldly things? The stories are about eternal principles which last forever.
However, obviously readers are welcome to merely look at the superficial outward appearances and judge accordingly.

Truth is always hidden from those who reject it in favor of their fantasies.
The pearls are not on the surface.
They are hidden so people need to search for them.

If you want to learn how to do magic tricks, learn from an illusionist and understand the difference between reality and the illusion of reality.

Look past what you see on the surface. The truth is behind the curtain.

Don't be a gullible person who believes everything they read just because someone said it is true.

A true myth is still a myth. It is not a historical fact. It is no different to a true lie.
YassineB
Posts: 1,003
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2/4/2015 8:18:07 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 2/4/2015 6:46:57 PM, Iredia wrote:
It's a simple one. If truly God did miracles we should regularly see of dead people being raised, amputees healed and terminally-ill people being healed without medical intervention. If things like this did happen I think there should be fewer unbelievers than at present. Neither do I think requests for these miracles are misplaced. If God is indeed good, and Jesus truly wiped peoples sins and healed them, then this should be within Christians power. Yet why do we not hear or see of it ?

- I don't think Miracle means what you think it means! You're speaking of the opposite of Miracle here!
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bornofgod
Posts: 11,322
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2/4/2015 8:25:24 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 2/4/2015 6:46:57 PM, Iredia wrote:
It's a simple one. If truly God did miracles we should regularly see of dead people being raised, amputees healed and terminally-ill people being healed without medical intervention. If things like this did happen I think there should be fewer unbelievers than at present. Neither do I think requests for these miracles are misplaced. If God is indeed good, and Jesus truly wiped peoples sins and healed them, then this should be within Christians power. Yet why do we not hear or see of it ?

Jesus didn't perform any miracles or heal people. Only our Creator can do those things but since our Creator is invisible to us, it's not easy to believe that miracles come from Him. Everything that happens in this world that can't be explained by God's people are miracles from our Creator. Most of His people believe unexplained things are left up to chance or coincidences, magical tricks, hallucinations, imaginations, lies, etc. They don't want to believe that there's a Creator who created everything.
JJ50
Posts: 2,144
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2/5/2015 6:29:04 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
The truly dead, including Jesus, don't get resurrected. Occasionally an unexpected healing does occur, but I believe there is a natural explanation, and nothing to do with any deity!
bornofgod
Posts: 11,322
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2/5/2015 7:50:31 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 2/5/2015 6:29:04 AM, JJ50 wrote:
The truly dead, including Jesus, don't get resurrected. Occasionally an unexpected healing does occur, but I believe there is a natural explanation, and nothing to do with any deity!

Don't worry my friend. Everything we observe has kept man from knowing his true created existence called energy, also known as the Word of the Lord.
Wylted
Posts: 21,167
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2/5/2015 7:54:22 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 2/4/2015 6:46:57 PM, Iredia wrote:
It's a simple one. If truly God did miracles we should regularly see of dead people being raised, amputees healed and terminally-ill people being healed without medical intervention. If things like this did happen I think there should be fewer unbelievers than at present. Neither do I think requests for these miracles are misplaced. If God is indeed good, and Jesus truly wiped peoples sins and healed them, then this should be within Christians power. Yet why do we not hear or see of it ?

You need to watch more Benny Hinn

https://m.youtube.com...
JJ50
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2/5/2015 8:56:22 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 2/5/2015 7:54:22 AM, Wylted wrote:
At 2/4/2015 6:46:57 PM, Iredia wrote:
It's a simple one. If truly God did miracles we should regularly see of dead people being raised, amputees healed and terminally-ill people being healed without medical intervention. If things like this did happen I think there should be fewer unbelievers than at present. Neither do I think requests for these miracles are misplaced. If God is indeed good, and Jesus truly wiped peoples sins and healed them, then this should be within Christians power. Yet why do we not hear or see of it ?

You need to watch more Benny Hinn

https://m.youtube.com...

That guy Hinn is a complete charlatan, who preys on the gullible!
Harikrish
Posts: 11,005
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2/5/2015 9:32:42 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
Read survey of bishops.

A third of Church of England clergy doubt or disbelieve in the physical Resurrection and only half are convinced of the truth of the Virgin birth, according to a new survey.
The poll of nearly 2,000 of the Church's 10,000 clergy also found that only half believe that faith in Christ is the only route to salvation.
While it has long been known that numerous clerics are dubious about the historic creeds of the Church, the survey is the first to disclose how widespread is the scepticism.
Few bishops would now share the views of the former Bishop of Durham, the Rt Rev David Jenkins, who caused a scandal in the 1980s when he contrasted the Resurrection with a "conjuring trick with bones".
Nevertheless liberal clergy, who represent about one in eight of the total, remain profoundly uncertain about the Church's core doctrines. In the survey, two thirds of them expressed doubts in the physical Resurrection and three quarters are unconvinced by the Virgin birth.
12:01AM BST 31 Jul 2002
A third of Church of England clergy doubt or disbelieve in the physical Resurrection and only half are convinced of the truth of the Virgin birth, according to a new survey.
The poll of nearly 2,000 of the Church's 10,000 clergy also found that only half believe that faith in Christ is the only route to salvation.
While it has long been known that numerous clerics are dubious about the historic creeds of the Church, the survey is the first to disclose how widespread is the scepticism.
Few bishops would now share the views of the former Bishop of Durham, the Rt Rev David Jenkins, who caused a scandal in the 1980s when he contrasted the Resurrection with a "conjuring trick with bones".
Nevertheless liberal clergy, who represent about one in eight of the total, remain profoundly uncertain about the Church's core doctrines. In the survey, two thirds of them expressed doubts in the physical Resurrection and three quarters are unconvinced by the Virgin birth.
http://www.telegraph.co.uk...
johnlubba
Posts: 2,892
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2/5/2015 9:41:47 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 2/4/2015 6:46:57 PM, Iredia wrote:
It's a simple one. If truly God did miracles we should regularly see of dead people being raised, amputees healed and terminally-ill people being healed without medical intervention. If things like this did happen I think there should be fewer unbelievers than at present. Neither do I think requests for these miracles are misplaced. If God is indeed good, and Jesus truly wiped peoples sins and healed them, then this should be within Christians power. Yet why do we not hear or see of it ?

A good God would allow me to die and not live forever on earth.

Also

the planarian flatworm. This tiny invertebrate, which belongs to a separate phylum from earthworms, is able to reform its entire body from slivers just 1/300th of the animal's original body size.

http://www.livescience.com...

Now that's a miracle?
Harikrish
Posts: 11,005
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2/5/2015 9:52:22 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 2/5/2015 9:41:47 AM, johnlubba wrote:
At 2/4/2015 6:46:57 PM, Iredia wrote:
It's a simple one. If truly God did miracles we should regularly see of dead people being raised, amputees healed and terminally-ill people being healed without medical intervention. If things like this did happen I think there should be fewer unbelievers than at present. Neither do I think requests for these miracles are misplaced. If God is indeed good, and Jesus truly wiped peoples sins and healed them, then this should be within Christians power. Yet why do we not hear or see of it ?


A good God would allow me to die and not live forever on earth.

Also


the planarian flatworm. This tiny invertebrate, which belongs to a separate phylum from earthworms, is able to reform its entire body from slivers just 1/300th of the animal's original body size.

http://www.livescience.com...


Now that's a miracle?

Unassisted, you might add.
ethang5
Posts: 4,104
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2/5/2015 10:55:27 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 2/4/2015 6:46:57 PM, Iredia wrote:
It's a simple one. If truly God did miracles we should regularly see of dead people being raised, amputees healed and terminally-ill people being healed without medical intervention. If things like this did happen I think there should be fewer unbelievers than at present. Neither do I think requests for these miracles are misplaced. If God is indeed good, and Jesus truly wiped peoples sins and healed them, then this should be within Christians power. Yet why do we not hear or see of it ?

An alternative explanation (and the one favored by the Bible) to the "it was all metaphorical" is that miracles had a purpose, and when that purpose was satisfied, there was no more need for miracles. Jesus actually showed distaste at people who always wanted to see miracles, and refused to perform them when they were requested.

But the meaning of the word miracles is very subjective. Whether we classify something as a "miracle" or not depends on our level of understanding. In 70 AD, a man walking around with an artificial heart inside him would be a miracle of the highest order, second only perhaps to a resurrection. Today, no one would call it a miracle. In 1649, a man standing on the moon was a stone cold miracle. Today, it has happened multiple times to different men. No one calls it a miracle.

Some of the things atheists call "miracles" today may not be called miracles in the future. It could be that we think of them as miracles only because of our current limited understanding.

Now one could say that a "miracle" is an act that breaks natural law. But our understanding of natural law is ever changing. There was a time that every single man of science would have told you that living underwater for 6 months, or a human moving faster than the speed of sound, or taking out a mans heart and putting it back in again and have him rise and walk away broke the laws of nature. They just didn't know nature well enough. Do we?

So today, dolts with a too poor understanding of science, will poo-pooh "miracles", just like the dolts in 1497 AD claiming that it broke the laws of nature for two people 5,000 miles apart to talk to each other in real time. The best that learned men can say is that we do not understand the processes and that current knowledge makes such and such impossible today.

What is a true, non-time-dependent, non-subjective miracle?
Electric-Eccentric
Posts: 1,309
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2/5/2015 11:51:24 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
If a "miracle" is classed as something that science and other earthly measuring and weighing devices show can't be and is impossible within the known laws of physics and such.

I personally have experienced and witnessed so called "miracles".

But "miracles" are like the odds of games of chance. The "winners odds" would be better placed in the "anomaly category" for a best fit of available words and definitions.

I should know as I AM also a anomaly of Truth in a earthly world such as this.

WHY be a confused, lazy day dreamer when you can be so much MORE?

I know the answer for that, so don't strain your brain over thinking on that one.
If you don't already know the correct answer it's because you are not interested in ANYTHING that might get in the WAY of your version of Reality and Truth.
Life is what YOU make it,
Most just try and fake it...
johnlubba
Posts: 2,892
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2/5/2015 11:51:45 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 2/5/2015 9:52:22 AM, Harikrish wrote:
At 2/5/2015 9:41:47 AM, johnlubba wrote:
At 2/4/2015 6:46:57 PM, Iredia wrote:
It's a simple one. If truly God did miracles we should regularly see of dead people being raised, amputees healed and terminally-ill people being healed without medical intervention. If things like this did happen I think there should be fewer unbelievers than at present. Neither do I think requests for these miracles are misplaced. If God is indeed good, and Jesus truly wiped peoples sins and healed them, then this should be within Christians power. Yet why do we not hear or see of it ?


A good God would allow me to die and not live forever on earth.

Also


the planarian flatworm. This tiny invertebrate, which belongs to a separate phylum from earthworms, is able to reform its entire body from slivers just 1/300th of the animal's original body size.

http://www.livescience.com...


Now that's a miracle?

Unassisted, you might add.

Not really, no.
Iredia
Posts: 1,608
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2/5/2015 12:36:12 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 2/5/2015 7:54:22 AM, Wylted wrote:
At 2/4/2015 6:46:57 PM, Iredia wrote:
It's a simple one. If truly God did miracles we should regularly see of dead people being raised, amputees healed and terminally-ill people being healed without medical intervention. If things like this did happen I think there should be fewer unbelievers than at present. Neither do I think requests for these miracles are misplaced. If God is indeed good, and Jesus truly wiped peoples sins and healed them, then this should be within Christians power. Yet why do we not hear or see of it ?

You need to watch more Benny Hinn

https://m.youtube.com...

Show me one video or report of Benny Hinn healing an amputee or raising a dead person.
Porn babes be distracting me. Dudes be stealing me stuff. I'm all about the cash from now. I'm not playing Jesus anymore.
Iredia
Posts: 1,608
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2/5/2015 12:38:37 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 2/4/2015 8:25:24 PM, bornofgod wrote:
At 2/4/2015 6:46:57 PM, Iredia wrote:
It's a simple one. If truly God did miracles we should regularly see of dead people being raised, amputees healed and terminally-ill people being healed without medical intervention. If things like this did happen I think there should be fewer unbelievers than at present. Neither do I think requests for these miracles are misplaced. If God is indeed good, and Jesus truly wiped peoples sins and healed them, then this should be within Christians power. Yet why do we not hear or see of it ?

Jesus didn't perform any miracles or heal people. Only our Creator can do those things but since our Creator is invisible to us, it's not easy to believe that miracles come from Him. Everything that happens in this world that can't be explained by God's people are miracles from our Creator. Most of His people believe unexplained things are left up to chance or coincidences, magical tricks, hallucinations, imaginations, lies, etc. They don't want to believe that there's a Creator who created everything.

Actually the Bible reports that Jesus did miracles, read the Gospels for proof.
Porn babes be distracting me. Dudes be stealing me stuff. I'm all about the cash from now. I'm not playing Jesus anymore.
Wylted
Posts: 21,167
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2/5/2015 12:40:39 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 2/5/2015 12:36:12 PM, Iredia wrote:
At 2/5/2015 7:54:22 AM, Wylted wrote:
At 2/4/2015 6:46:57 PM, Iredia wrote:
It's a simple one. If truly God did miracles we should regularly see of dead people being raised, amputees healed and terminally-ill people being healed without medical intervention. If things like this did happen I think there should be fewer unbelievers than at present. Neither do I think requests for these miracles are misplaced. If God is indeed good, and Jesus truly wiped peoples sins and healed them, then this should be within Christians power. Yet why do we not hear or see of it ?

You need to watch more Benny Hinn

https://m.youtube.com...

Show me one video or report of Benny Hinn healing an amputee or raising a dead person.

Watch the video I linked to. WTF?
annanicole
Posts: 19,785
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2/5/2015 12:44:13 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 2/4/2015 6:46:57 PM, Iredia wrote:
It's a simple one. If truly God did miracles we should regularly see of dead people being raised, amputees healed and terminally-ill people being healed without medical intervention. If things like this did happen I think there should be fewer unbelievers than at present. Neither do I think requests for these miracles are misplaced. If God is indeed good, and Jesus truly wiped peoples sins and healed them, then this should be within Christians power. Yet why do we not hear or see of it ?

Because the very purpose of miracles was to confirm the word of God, the veracity of the speaker, etc. Miracles were not because God is such a nice guy. Since the Scriptures stand as confirmed and certified, the need for continual miracles in negated. That's why we don't see them today.
Madcornishbiker: "No, I don't need a dictionary, I know how scripture uses words and that is all I need to now."
Iredia
Posts: 1,608
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2/5/2015 12:48:13 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 2/5/2015 10:55:27 AM, ethang5 wrote:
At 2/4/2015 6:46:57 PM, Iredia wrote:
It's a simple one. If truly God did miracles we should regularly see of dead people being raised, amputees healed and terminally-ill people being healed without medical intervention. If things like this did happen I think there should be fewer unbelievers than at present. Neither do I think requests for these miracles are misplaced. If God is indeed good, and Jesus truly wiped peoples sins and healed them, then this should be within Christians power. Yet why do we not hear or see of it ?

An alternative explanation (and the one favored by the Bible) to the "it was all metaphorical" is that miracles had a purpose, and when that purpose was satisfied, there was no more need for miracles. Jesus actually showed distaste at people who always wanted to see miracles, and refused to perform them when they were requested.

But the meaning of the word miracles is very subjective. Whether we classify something as a "miracle" or not depends on our level of understanding. In 70 AD, a man walking around with an artificial heart inside him would be a miracle of the highest order, second only perhaps to a resurrection. Today, no one would call it a miracle. In 1649, a man standing on the moon was a stone cold miracle. Today, it has happened multiple times to different men. No one calls it a miracle.

Some of the things atheists call "miracles" today may not be called miracles in the future. It could be that we think of them as miracles only because of our current limited understanding.

Now one could say that a "miracle" is an act that breaks natural law. But our understanding of natural law is ever changing. There was a time that every single man of science would have told you that living underwater for 6 months, or a human moving faster than the speed of sound, or taking out a mans heart and putting it back in again and have him rise and walk away broke the laws of nature. They just didn't know nature well enough. Do we?

So today, dolts with a too poor understanding of science, will poo-pooh "miracles", just like the dolts in 1497 AD claiming that it broke the laws of nature for two people 5,000 miles apart to talk to each other in real time. The best that learned men can say is that we do not understand the processes and that current knowledge makes such and such impossible today.

What is a true, non-time-dependent, non-subjective miracle?

Despite all you've said, one things for sure, there's no way science of the future can concievably raise the dead by speaking a word, allow people walk on water or levitate on clouds without any contraption, or heal amputees by laying of hands. Science and technology depend of contraptions of some kind to work. Miracles by pass all that. The question is: where are the miracles.
Porn babes be distracting me. Dudes be stealing me stuff. I'm all about the cash from now. I'm not playing Jesus anymore.
ThinkFirst
Posts: 1,391
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2/5/2015 12:51:09 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 2/4/2015 7:06:40 PM, Skyangel wrote:
At 2/4/2015 6:46:57 PM, Iredia wrote:
It's a simple one. If truly God did miracles we should regularly see of dead people being raised, amputees healed and terminally-ill people being healed without medical intervention. If things like this did happen I think there should be fewer unbelievers than at present. Neither do I think requests for these miracles are misplaced. If God is indeed good, and Jesus truly wiped peoples sins and healed them, then this should be within Christians power. Yet why do we not hear or see of it ?

Because the stories are not literal. They did not literally happen in a physical sense.
They are all metaphorical and symbolic.

Eg..
Making the blind to see is not about opening physical eyes but rather about opening ones understanding and being enlightened.

Making the lame to walk is about learning to stand on ones own two feet and taking responsibility for ones own actions. It is about not needing any metaphorical crutches for support like religion or alcohol or drugs to help one escape ones own responsibilities.

Making ears hear is about listening to more than just superficial words and taking things on face value. It is about really understanding what others are talking about and the message they are trying to convey from their heart not from their mouth.

Raising dead people is not about literally raising physically dead bodies out of graves but rather about a change in a life from a state of unawareness, ignorance, sleep, etc, to a state of awareness, knowledge and understanding of the reality of life.

Forgiveness of sins in the story is an example of how we ought to treat our enemies and those who wrong us by forgiving them because people often do things without thinking about how they affect others.

Stories of miracles in the bible are not about physical phenomenon but are parables about living Life in the Way of Truth and understanding of ourselves and our fellow man rather than in a state of ignorance and in a fantasy world where believers are trying to make physical magic happen using the magic words "In the name of Jesus".

Very eloquent cop-out.
FAIL
"Never attribute to villainy that which can be adequately explained by stupidity"
-----
"Men rarely if ever dream up a god superior to themselves. Most gods have the manners and morals of a spoiled child. "

-- Robert A Heinlein
ThinkFirst
Posts: 1,391
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2/5/2015 12:55:25 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 2/5/2015 7:54:22 AM, Wylted wrote:
At 2/4/2015 6:46:57 PM, Iredia wrote:
It's a simple one. If truly God did miracles we should regularly see of dead people being raised, amputees healed and terminally-ill people being healed without medical intervention. If things like this did happen I think there should be fewer unbelievers than at present. Neither do I think requests for these miracles are misplaced. If God is indeed good, and Jesus truly wiped peoples sins and healed them, then this should be within Christians power. Yet why do we not hear or see of it ?

You need to watch more Benny Hinn

https://m.youtube.com...

ROFL!!! Thank you so much, for this.
"Never attribute to villainy that which can be adequately explained by stupidity"
-----
"Men rarely if ever dream up a god superior to themselves. Most gods have the manners and morals of a spoiled child. "

-- Robert A Heinlein
ThinkFirst
Posts: 1,391
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2/5/2015 12:56:25 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 2/5/2015 8:56:22 AM, JJ50 wrote:
At 2/5/2015 7:54:22 AM, Wylted wrote:
At 2/4/2015 6:46:57 PM, Iredia wrote:
It's a simple one. If truly God did miracles we should regularly see of dead people being raised, amputees healed and terminally-ill people being healed without medical intervention. If things like this did happen I think there should be fewer unbelievers than at present. Neither do I think requests for these miracles are misplaced. If God is indeed good, and Jesus truly wiped peoples sins and healed them, then this should be within Christians power. Yet why do we not hear or see of it ?

You need to watch more Benny Hinn

https://m.youtube.com...

That guy Hinn is a complete charlatan, who preys on the gullible!

First, he prays OVER the gullible, then preys on the gullible.
"Never attribute to villainy that which can be adequately explained by stupidity"
-----
"Men rarely if ever dream up a god superior to themselves. Most gods have the manners and morals of a spoiled child. "

-- Robert A Heinlein
Iredia
Posts: 1,608
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2/5/2015 12:56:27 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 2/5/2015 12:44:13 PM, annanicole wrote:
At 2/4/2015 6:46:57 PM, Iredia wrote:
It's a simple one. If truly God did miracles we should regularly see of dead people being raised, amputees healed and terminally-ill people being healed without medical intervention. If things like this did happen I think there should be fewer unbelievers than at present. Neither do I think requests for these miracles are misplaced. If God is indeed good, and Jesus truly wiped peoples sins and healed them, then this should be within Christians power. Yet why do we not hear or see of it ?

Because the very purpose of miracles was to confirm the word of God, the veracity of the speaker, etc. Miracles were not because God is such a nice guy. Since the Scriptures stand as confirmed and certified, the need for continual miracles in negated. That's why we don't see them today.

I disagree. There is an ever-present need to confirm the Scriptures, it isn't a once-an-for-all thing and the lack of miracles undoubtedly give atheists more ammo against Christianity. Jogn 14:12 and Matt 10:8 as well as the works of the disciples and apostle Paul show that Jesus expected miracles to be a part of believers ministry. I think your reply here is a dodge because in truth the miracles don't happen and that ones that do are either petty, fraudulent or questionable.
Porn babes be distracting me. Dudes be stealing me stuff. I'm all about the cash from now. I'm not playing Jesus anymore.
Electric-Eccentric
Posts: 1,309
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2/5/2015 12:58:00 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
Here I AM and where I AM
There you may be also.

Where might that be?

The grown up land of Reality and a ONE Truth that destroys ALL illusion, confusion and superstition.

Say PROVE IT?

Are you positively SURE that is what you wish?

Sure you could handle it?

I have after all been taking it easy around here.

Want some "fire and brimstone"?

Or would you prefer fluffy little bunnies that deliver candy?
Life is what YOU make it,
Most just try and fake it...
ThinkFirst
Posts: 1,391
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2/5/2015 1:02:46 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 2/5/2015 10:55:27 AM, ethang5 wrote:
At 2/4/2015 6:46:57 PM, Iredia wrote:
It's a simple one. If truly God did miracles we should regularly see of dead people being raised, amputees healed and terminally-ill people being healed without medical intervention. If things like this did happen I think there should be fewer unbelievers than at present. Neither do I think requests for these miracles are misplaced. If God is indeed good, and Jesus truly wiped peoples sins and healed them, then this should be within Christians power. Yet why do we not hear or see of it ?

An alternative explanation (and the one favored by the Bible) to the "it was all metaphorical" is that miracles had a purpose, and when that purpose was satisfied, there was no more need for miracles. Jesus actually showed distaste at people who always wanted to see miracles, and refused to perform them when they were requested.

But the meaning of the word miracles is very subjective. Whether we classify something as a "miracle" or not depends on our level of understanding. In 70 AD, a man walking around with an artificial heart inside him would be a miracle of the highest order, second only perhaps to a resurrection. Today, no one would call it a miracle. In 1649, a man standing on the moon was a stone cold miracle. Today, it has happened multiple times to different men. No one calls it a miracle.

Some of the things atheists call "miracles" today may not be called miracles in the future. It could be that we think of them as miracles only because of our current limited understanding.

Now one could say that a "miracle" is an act that breaks natural law. But our understanding of natural law is ever changing. There was a time that every single man of science would have told you that living underwater for 6 months, or a human moving faster than the speed of sound, or taking out a mans heart and putting it back in again and have him rise and walk away broke the laws of nature. They just didn't know nature well enough. Do we?

So today, dolts with a too poor understanding of science, will poo-pooh "miracles", just like the dolts in 1497 AD claiming that it broke the laws of nature for two people 5,000 miles apart to talk to each other in real time. The best that learned men can say is that we do not understand the processes and that current knowledge makes such and such impossible today.

What is a true, non-time-dependent, non-subjective miracle?

Or, perhaps, it was far easier to fool a bunch of ignorant bronze-age peasants into buying the "miracle" angle. Today, the average middle school child knows more about the physical universe around them than most middle aged people of that time. Kids today would be able to refute that which was blindly accepted, back then. Superstition and education are the best defense against supernatural claims. Biblical miracles are about as likely to be factual as making the statue of liberty disappear...
"Never attribute to villainy that which can be adequately explained by stupidity"
-----
"Men rarely if ever dream up a god superior to themselves. Most gods have the manners and morals of a spoiled child. "

-- Robert A Heinlein
Iredia
Posts: 1,608
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2/5/2015 1:03:58 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 2/5/2015 12:40:39 PM, Wylted wrote:
At 2/5/2015 12:36:12 PM, Iredia wrote:
At 2/5/2015 7:54:22 AM, Wylted wrote:
At 2/4/2015 6:46:57 PM, Iredia wrote:
It's a simple one. If truly God did miracles we should regularly see of dead people being raised, amputees healed and terminally-ill people being healed without medical intervention. If things like this did happen I think there should be fewer unbelievers than at present. Neither do I think requests for these miracles are misplaced. If God is indeed good, and Jesus truly wiped peoples sins and healed them, then this should be within Christians power. Yet why do we not hear or see of it ?

You need to watch more Benny Hinn

https://m.youtube.com...

Show me one video or report of Benny Hinn healing an amputee or raising a dead person.

Watch the video I linked to. WTF?

Yeah I know Benny Hinn and I've seen that video. I've read God's Genrals. I also know Hagin and Morris Cerrullo. If that video is the best you've got then . . . I hate to break it to you but YOU'VE GOT NOTHING.
Porn babes be distracting me. Dudes be stealing me stuff. I'm all about the cash from now. I'm not playing Jesus anymore.
ThinkFirst
Posts: 1,391
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2/5/2015 1:06:00 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 2/5/2015 12:44:13 PM, annanicole wrote:
At 2/4/2015 6:46:57 PM, Iredia wrote:
It's a simple one. If truly God did miracles we should regularly see of dead people being raised, amputees healed and terminally-ill people being healed without medical intervention. If things like this did happen I think there should be fewer unbelievers than at present. Neither do I think requests for these miracles are misplaced. If God is indeed good, and Jesus truly wiped peoples sins and healed them, then this should be within Christians power. Yet why do we not hear or see of it ?

Because the very purpose of miracles was to confirm the word of God, the veracity of the speaker, etc. Miracles were not because God is such a nice guy. Since the Scriptures stand as confirmed and certified, the need for continual miracles in negated. That's why we don't see them today.

Funny that they were only "necessary" during an age when technology, forensics, and knowledge were absent. Now that they could be tested and disproved, they are "not necessary." How convenient.
"Never attribute to villainy that which can be adequately explained by stupidity"
-----
"Men rarely if ever dream up a god superior to themselves. Most gods have the manners and morals of a spoiled child. "

-- Robert A Heinlein
Wylted
Posts: 21,167
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2/5/2015 1:07:20 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 2/5/2015 1:03:58 PM, Iredia wrote:
At 2/5/2015 12:40:39 PM, Wylted wrote:
At 2/5/2015 12:36:12 PM, Iredia wrote:
At 2/5/2015 7:54:22 AM, Wylted wrote:
At 2/4/2015 6:46:57 PM, Iredia wrote:
It's a simple one. If truly God did miracles we should regularly see of dead people being raised, amputees healed and terminally-ill people being healed without medical intervention. If things like this did happen I think there should be fewer unbelievers than at present. Neither do I think requests for these miracles are misplaced. If God is indeed good, and Jesus truly wiped peoples sins and healed them, then this should be within Christians power. Yet why do we not hear or see of it ?

You need to watch more Benny Hinn

https://m.youtube.com...

Show me one video or report of Benny Hinn healing an amputee or raising a dead person.

Watch the video I linked to. WTF?

Yeah I know Benny Hinn and I've seen that video. I've read God's Genrals. I also know Hagin and Morris Cerrullo. If that video is the best you've got then . . . I hate to break it to you but YOU'VE GOT NOTHING.

You're an idiot. The video is a clear attempt at humor. Seriously WTF is wrong with you!