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female pastors.

Marauder
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7/5/2010 5:01:49 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
My church has a new pastor now. and this pastor is a she! And I am quickly learning that a great many have a particular problem with that (in general, I don't know about my church specifically), witch makes it good for starting debates. I would like practice defending the topic, is there any out there who are against having women pastors who would like to debate it? I'll take this issue on hear in the forum's or in a official debate, which ever you like.
One act of Rebellion created all the darkness and evil in the world; One life of Total Obedience created a path back to eternity and God.

A Scout is Obedient.
studentathletechristian8
Posts: 5,810
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7/5/2010 5:16:23 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 7/5/2010 5:01:49 PM, Marauder wrote:
My church has a new pastor now. and this pastor is a she! And I am quickly learning that a great many have a particular problem with that (in general, I don't know about my church specifically), witch makes it good for starting debates. I would like practice defending the topic, is there any out there who are against having women pastors who would like to debate it? I'll take this issue on hear in the forum's or in a official debate, which ever you like.

The Catholic Church will not accept women as priests. I personally think that's complete bullsh!t. I've argued this many times with kids at school.

At my church, we have a female pastor. No problem with it. I think it's just the Catholic faith that has a problem, but don't quote me.
JustCallMeTarzan
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7/5/2010 5:28:06 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
I think it's just the Catholic faith that has a problem, but don't quote me.

It's hard for women to molest little boys. They have small fingers and women have nothing to put inside.
studentathletechristian8
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7/5/2010 5:30:51 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 7/5/2010 5:28:06 PM, JustCallMeTarzan wrote:
I think it's just the Catholic faith that has a problem, but don't quote me.

It's hard for women to molest little boys. They have small fingers and women have nothing to put inside.

Lol.
Cerebral_Narcissist
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7/5/2010 5:54:21 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 7/5/2010 5:01:49 PM, Marauder wrote:
My church has a new pastor now. and this pastor is a she! And I am quickly learning that a great many have a particular problem with that (in general, I don't know about my church specifically), witch makes it good for starting debates. I would like practice defending the topic, is there any out there who are against having women pastors who would like to debate it? I'll take this issue on hear in the forum's or in a official debate, which ever you like.

If you dont find a Christian to debate with then I'll take it on.
I am voting for Innomen because of his intelligence, common sense, humility and the fact that Juggle appears to listen to him. Any other Presidential style would have a large sub-section of the site up in arms. If I was President I would destroy the site though elitism, others would let it run riot. Innomen represents a middle way that works, neither draconian nor anarchic and that is the only way things can work. Plus he does it all without ego trips.
Marauder
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7/5/2010 6:33:53 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 7/5/2010 5:18:22 PM, belle wrote:
http://catholicism.about.com...


protestant churches for the most part have no room to take this route, as that would invalidate all there male priest too, at least in the Methodist case hear in America, Francis Ashbury started ordaining people without previously ordained people after the "Christmas Conference" http://en.wikipedia.org...
One act of Rebellion created all the darkness and evil in the world; One life of Total Obedience created a path back to eternity and God.

A Scout is Obedient.
Marauder
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7/5/2010 6:37:53 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 7/5/2010 5:16:23 PM, studentathletechristian8 wrote:
At 7/5/2010 5:01:49 PM, Marauder wrote:
My church has a new pastor now. and this pastor is a she! And I am quickly learning that a great many have a particular problem with that (in general, I don't know about my church specifically), witch makes it good for starting debates. I would like practice defending the topic, is there any out there who are against having women pastors who would like to debate it? I'll take this issue on hear in the forum's or in a official debate, which ever you like.

The Catholic Church will not accept women as priests. I personally think that's complete bullsh!t. I've argued this many times with kids at school.

At my church, we have a female pastor. No problem with it. I think it's just the Catholic faith that has a problem, but don't quote me.

baptist in my local area do, and a split in oppinon over still exist and many other protestent churches from what I've gathered just talking to different people like cambilite churches, presbetirens, and my own; but though the topic is debated they dont split over it, just push to have it changed when it comes time to have the chance to do that.
One act of Rebellion created all the darkness and evil in the world; One life of Total Obedience created a path back to eternity and God.

A Scout is Obedient.
Marauder
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7/5/2010 6:49:32 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 7/5/2010 5:54:21 PM, Cerebral_Narcissist wrote:

If you dont find a Christian to debate with then I'll take it on.

and it because of that I search for challengers in the forums before making the debate and leaving it open in the challenge period. your an athiest Narcy, and I've seen athiest take debates like this one and turn it to an athiest debated point of interest like "gays should not be allowed in church because church is stupid, no one strait or gay should be in church"
In this case it would take a route like "women should not be made pastors because none should be pastors"

Now if you actual suggest you intend to pretend to argue from a christian standpoint, I got to say the one I have already tried was very disappointing. http://www.debate.org...
Its nothing personal, just if I want to have a debate to prepare me for debating with other christains, then I need to debate with a christian.
One act of Rebellion created all the darkness and evil in the world; One life of Total Obedience created a path back to eternity and God.

A Scout is Obedient.
Cerebral_Narcissist
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7/5/2010 7:03:44 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 7/5/2010 6:49:32 PM, Marauder wrote:
At 7/5/2010 5:54:21 PM, Cerebral_Narcissist wrote:

If you dont find a Christian to debate with then I'll take it on.

and it because of that I search for challengers in the forums before making the debate and leaving it open in the challenge period. your an athiest Narcy, and I've seen athiest take debates like this one and turn it to an athiest debated point of interest like "gays should not be allowed in church because church is stupid, no one strait or gay should be in church"
In this case it would take a route like "women should not be made pastors because none should be pastors"

Now if you actual suggest you intend to pretend to argue from a christian standpoint, I got to say the one I have already tried was very disappointing. http://www.debate.org...
Its nothing personal, just if I want to have a debate to prepare me for debating with other christains, then I need to debate with a christian.

I was actually going to argue from the point of view of the bible. Me taking Con.
I am voting for Innomen because of his intelligence, common sense, humility and the fact that Juggle appears to listen to him. Any other Presidential style would have a large sub-section of the site up in arms. If I was President I would destroy the site though elitism, others would let it run riot. Innomen represents a middle way that works, neither draconian nor anarchic and that is the only way things can work. Plus he does it all without ego trips.
Marauder
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7/5/2010 7:08:52 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 7/5/2010 7:03:44 PM, Cerebral_Narcissist wrote:

I was actually going to argue from the point of view of the bible. Me taking Con.

can I see an example of a previous debate you have done taking the position from the view of the bible before? maybe you are better at it than xxdarkxx at it.
One act of Rebellion created all the darkness and evil in the world; One life of Total Obedience created a path back to eternity and God.

A Scout is Obedient.
Cerebral_Narcissist
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7/5/2010 7:11:44 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 7/5/2010 7:08:52 PM, Marauder wrote:
At 7/5/2010 7:03:44 PM, Cerebral_Narcissist wrote:

I was actually going to argue from the point of view of the bible. Me taking Con.

can I see an example of a previous debate you have done taking the position from the view of the bible before? maybe you are better at it than xxdarkxx at it.

I don't suppose the 10,000 arguments I've won with DATCMOTO count? No obviously not. In any case I am not going to demean myself an audition process when I have repeatedly shown my ability to debate such topics!
I am voting for Innomen because of his intelligence, common sense, humility and the fact that Juggle appears to listen to him. Any other Presidential style would have a large sub-section of the site up in arms. If I was President I would destroy the site though elitism, others would let it run riot. Innomen represents a middle way that works, neither draconian nor anarchic and that is the only way things can work. Plus he does it all without ego trips.
Marauder
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7/5/2010 7:46:32 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 7/5/2010 7:11:44 PM, Cerebral_Narcissist wrote:
At 7/5/2010 7:08:52 PM, Marauder wrote:
At 7/5/2010 7:03:44 PM, Cerebral_Narcissist wrote:

I was actually going to argue from the point of view of the bible. Me taking Con.

can I see an example of a previous debate you have done taking the position from the view of the bible before? maybe you are better at it than xxdarkxx at it.

I don't suppose the 10,000 arguments I've won with DATCMOTO count? No obviously not. In any case I am not going to demean myself an audition process when I have repeatedly shown my ability to debate such topics!

I've only seen you debate like athiest vs christian with DATC. and with me too for that matter.

and incedently, I see no reason to view putting a link to a past debate as demeaning. In fact you could even take it as an honor. I'm not asking you to prove something about your own skills (sorta), but more like presenting my sterotype about all athiest innability to take a christian debate like a christian and giving you the keys to destroy that sterotype if you so choose.

even then though its not a big deal, as the presented purpose is to change my oppinon and why care about that? (I wouldnt)
all you have is the fact that I took an intrest enough to read one of your debates, and you could give me a link now and with that intrest I would read through it. If you dont life goes on.

so feel free to give me a link, appraisal of your character does not hang in the balance.
One act of Rebellion created all the darkness and evil in the world; One life of Total Obedience created a path back to eternity and God.

A Scout is Obedient.
Procrastarian
Posts: 21
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7/5/2010 9:35:23 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
Just a clarification - Which of these two resolutions are you interested in going PRO for?

1: Females should be allowed to be pastors in the Methodist church.

2: No churches should have priesthood only apply to men.

I think you're probably more interested in the first, but if you agree with the second I'd be willing to defend the Catholic faith. I don't know a whole lot about the traditional arguments regarding women priests in the Methodist church, so I'd rather let someone else take the first resolution.
GeoLaureate8
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7/5/2010 10:29:41 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
From a secular standpoint, females should be allowed to be pastors.

From a Christian standpoint, women should not be pastors. Women are responsible for the fall of man and inferior to men.
"We must raise the standard of the Old, free, decentralized, and strictly limited Republic."
-- Murray Rothbard

"The worst thing that can happen to a good cause is, not to be skillfully attacked, but to be ineptly defended."
-- Frederic Bastiat
DATCMOTO
Posts: 6,160
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7/6/2010 3:50:42 AM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 7/5/2010 5:01:49 PM, Marauder wrote:
My church has a new pastor now. and this pastor is a she! And I am quickly learning that a great many have a particular problem with that (in general, I don't know about my church specifically), witch makes it good for starting debates. I would like practice defending the topic, is there any out there who are against having women pastors who would like to debate it? I'll take this issue on hear in the forum's or in a official debate, which ever you like.

1TIMOTHY2:12
I do not permit a woman to teach or to have authority over a man. She must be silent.


Because the Lord told me to obey this scripture I am no longer welcome at my church, So it's something of a hot potato for me!

To do otherwise is to simply to be worldly.

Man is the head of woman and Christ is he head of man.

It was Eve that was deceived not Adam; He knowingly sinned.
The Cross.. the Cross.
Marauder
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7/6/2010 8:27:56 AM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 7/5/2010 9:35:23 PM, Procrastarian wrote:
Just a clarification - Which of these two resolutions are you interested in going PRO for?

1: Females should be allowed to be pastors in the Methodist church.

2: No churches should have priesthood only apply to men.

I think you're probably more interested in the first, but if you agree with the second I'd be willing to defend the Catholic faith. I don't know a whole lot about the traditional arguments regarding women priests in the Methodist church, so I'd rather let someone else take the first resolution.

well, yes I would need to debate it closer to resolution number 1. they are currently allowed as pastors in the Methodist church, so to change the resolution to fit that fact it would be more like "the Methodist church is right to allow female pastors"
the reason It doesn't help to debate the issue from the Catholic position is because of the particular reason Catholics don't allow it. I read a link bell posted that gave how Catholics justify not allowing female pastors, and it deals with technicalities in ordination. with that technicality being the base of the argument I would not just be defending women as pastors but all American Methodist pastors. Due to complications in the American revolution, Francis Ashbury ended up ordaining people without previously ordained members doing the ordaining.

Now if your reasons are similar to DATC's then it would be pertinent to my church, as 1 Timithoy is the set of scriptures protestants use to argue against female pastor-hood.
One act of Rebellion created all the darkness and evil in the world; One life of Total Obedience created a path back to eternity and God.

A Scout is Obedient.
mattrodstrom
Posts: 12,028
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7/6/2010 8:36:18 AM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 7/6/2010 3:50:42 AM, DATCMOTO wrote:
At 7/5/2010 5:01:49 PM, Marauder wrote:
My church has a new pastor now. and this pastor is a she! And I am quickly learning that a great many have a particular problem with that (in general, I don't know about my church specifically), witch makes it good for starting debates. I would like practice defending the topic, is there any out there who are against having women pastors who would like to debate it? I'll take this issue on hear in the forum's or in a official debate, which ever you like.

1TIMOTHY2:12
I do not permit a woman to teach or to have authority over a man. She must be silent.


Because the Lord told me to obey this scripture I am no longer welcome at my church, So it's something of a hot potato for me!

To do otherwise is to simply to be worldly.

Man is the head of woman and Christ is he head of man.

It was Eve that was deceived not Adam; He knowingly sinned.

do you follow all the OT???

stone gays much?

also... do you think God "thought twice" given the reasonings of Moses; that God ought not go through with slaughtering ALL the Jews for some having worshipped the calf.. because if he did the Egyptians wouldn't think highly of The Jewish God???
"He who does not know how to put his will into things at least puts a meaning into them: that is, he believes there is a will in them already."

Metaphysics:
"The science.. which deals with the fundamental errors of mankind - but as if they were the fundamental truths."
mattrodstrom
Posts: 12,028
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7/6/2010 8:38:33 AM
Posted: 6 years ago
oops... Tim is NT.

however... I'd still like to know if you follow the OT
"He who does not know how to put his will into things at least puts a meaning into them: that is, he believes there is a will in them already."

Metaphysics:
"The science.. which deals with the fundamental errors of mankind - but as if they were the fundamental truths."
Marauder
Posts: 3,271
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7/6/2010 8:41:04 AM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 7/6/2010 3:50:42 AM, DATCMOTO wrote:
At 7/5/2010 5:01:49 PM, Marauder wrote:
My church has a new pastor now. and this pastor is a she! And I am quickly learning that a great many have a particular problem with that (in general, I don't know about my church specifically), witch makes it good for starting debates. I would like practice defending the topic, is there any out there who are against having women pastors who would like to debate it? I'll take this issue on hear in the forum's or in a official debate, which ever you like.

1TIMOTHY2:12
I do not permit a woman to teach or to have authority over a man. She must be silent.


Because the Lord told me to obey this scripture I am no longer welcome at my church, So it's something of a hot potato for me!

To do otherwise is to simply to be worldly.

Man is the head of woman and Christ is he head of man.

It was Eve that was deceived not Adam; He knowingly sinned.

well that would make Adams sin worse wouldn't it? ergo women should be trusted more to be pastors than men.

DATC if I could just point you to Judges chapter 4, verses all of it http://www.biblegateway.com...

Most who stand against female pastorhood think this scripture is quoted to point of a judge was a woman once, and they counter with arguments about how judges are different from pastors, but the fact that Deborah is even in this scripture has nothing to do with why females should be allowed as pastors. Its the story that shows how God works.

My first point is about the fact that lay minister's (local pastors) exist. the church has had to resort to making non ordained people pastors because there is such a shortage in people willing to pastors now. This shows it is fact that Men are not stepping up to taking the responsability themselves to be pastors in the church.

in the story we find that when Barak (a man) refuses to step up to claim the honor that is his, God punishes him by given it to Jael (a woman). in this story that honor was the right to kill the general of the enemy. it was mans by all rights but man refused to head Gods call and do it, so it was given to woman.

so we have the fact that men are not stepping up to the plate, and we have the fact of what God does when they do not.

1TIMOTHY2:12 may have been relevant in the context of the time it was written in but we live in a different era with a different set of problems. and lack of pastors is one of them.
One act of Rebellion created all the darkness and evil in the world; One life of Total Obedience created a path back to eternity and God.

A Scout is Obedient.
tBoonePickens
Posts: 3,266
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7/6/2010 8:41:56 AM
Posted: 6 years ago
How about German pastors?
WOS
: At 10/3/2012 4:28:52 AM, Wallstreetatheist wrote:
: Without nothing existing, you couldn't have something.
Marauder
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7/6/2010 8:43:30 AM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 7/6/2010 8:41:56 AM, tBoonePickens wrote:
How about German pastors?

sure. If someone is telling you they cant be just tell them the church is eccumenical and they should shut up.
One act of Rebellion created all the darkness and evil in the world; One life of Total Obedience created a path back to eternity and God.

A Scout is Obedient.
mattrodstrom
Posts: 12,028
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7/6/2010 8:45:36 AM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 7/6/2010 8:41:04 AM, Marauder wrote:
1TIMOTHY2:12 may have been relevant in the context of the time it was written in but we live in a different era with a different set of problems. and lack of pastors is one of them.

you realize You're discussing the "Relevance" of THE WORD OF GOD.
"He who does not know how to put his will into things at least puts a meaning into them: that is, he believes there is a will in them already."

Metaphysics:
"The science.. which deals with the fundamental errors of mankind - but as if they were the fundamental truths."
Cerebral_Narcissist
Posts: 10,806
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7/6/2010 9:06:09 AM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 7/6/2010 8:45:36 AM, mattrodstrom wrote:
At 7/6/2010 8:41:04 AM, Marauder wrote:
1TIMOTHY2:12 may have been relevant in the context of the time it was written in but we live in a different era with a different set of problems. and lack of pastors is one of them.

you realize You're discussing the "Relevance" of THE WORD OF GOD.

DIY religion.
I am voting for Innomen because of his intelligence, common sense, humility and the fact that Juggle appears to listen to him. Any other Presidential style would have a large sub-section of the site up in arms. If I was President I would destroy the site though elitism, others would let it run riot. Innomen represents a middle way that works, neither draconian nor anarchic and that is the only way things can work. Plus he does it all without ego trips.
Marauder
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7/6/2010 9:16:27 AM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 7/6/2010 8:45:36 AM, mattrodstrom wrote:
At 7/6/2010 8:41:04 AM, Marauder wrote:
1TIMOTHY2:12 may have been relevant in the context of the time it was written in but we live in a different era with a different set of problems. and lack of pastors is one of them.

you realize You're discussing the "Relevance" of THE WORD OF GOD.

Its in the Methodist book of Discipline that we should interpret scripture in context with when it was written. I have no problem defending that belief. Reading stuff in context only makes sense.
One act of Rebellion created all the darkness and evil in the world; One life of Total Obedience created a path back to eternity and God.

A Scout is Obedient.
Cerebral_Narcissist
Posts: 10,806
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7/6/2010 9:20:41 AM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 7/6/2010 9:16:27 AM, Marauder wrote:
At 7/6/2010 8:45:36 AM, mattrodstrom wrote:
At 7/6/2010 8:41:04 AM, Marauder wrote:
1TIMOTHY2:12 may have been relevant in the context of the time it was written in but we live in a different era with a different set of problems. and lack of pastors is one of them.

you realize You're discussing the "Relevance" of THE WORD OF GOD.

Its in the Methodist book of Discipline that we should interpret scripture in context with when it was written. I have no problem defending that belief. Reading stuff in context only makes sense.

No it is your personal opinion that Religion is simply a hobby for the weekend and should in no way change the way you think, feel, or conduct yourself. If an item of scripture conflicts with your preconceived secular lifestyle then you can just 'interpret' it away.
I am voting for Innomen because of his intelligence, common sense, humility and the fact that Juggle appears to listen to him. Any other Presidential style would have a large sub-section of the site up in arms. If I was President I would destroy the site though elitism, others would let it run riot. Innomen represents a middle way that works, neither draconian nor anarchic and that is the only way things can work. Plus he does it all without ego trips.
tBoonePickens
Posts: 3,266
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7/6/2010 2:25:38 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 7/6/2010 8:43:30 AM, Marauder wrote:
At 7/6/2010 8:41:56 AM, tBoonePickens wrote:
How about German pastors?

sure. If someone is telling you they cant be just tell them the church is eccumenical and they should shut up.

True, but they make great pets!
WOS
: At 10/3/2012 4:28:52 AM, Wallstreetatheist wrote:
: Without nothing existing, you couldn't have something.
DATCMOTO
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7/7/2010 3:37:03 AM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 7/6/2010 8:36:18 AM, mattrodstrom wrote:
At 7/6/2010 3:50:42 AM, DATCMOTO wrote:
At 7/5/2010 5:01:49 PM, Marauder wrote:
My church has a new pastor now. and this pastor is a she! And I am quickly learning that a great many have a particular problem with that (in general, I don't know about my church specifically), witch makes it good for starting debates. I would like practice defending the topic, is there any out there who are against having women pastors who would like to debate it? I'll take this issue on hear in the forum's or in a official debate, which ever you like.

1TIMOTHY2:12
I do not permit a woman to teach or to have authority over a man. She must be silent.


Because the Lord told me to obey this scripture I am no longer welcome at my church, So it's something of a hot potato for me!

To do otherwise is to simply to be worldly.

Man is the head of woman and Christ is he head of man.

It was Eve that was deceived not Adam; He knowingly sinned.

do you follow all the OT???

stone gays much?

also... do you think God "thought twice" given the reasonings of Moses; that God ought not go through with slaughtering ALL the Jews for some having worshipped the calf.. because if he did the Egyptians wouldn't think highly of The Jewish God???

Err.. Timothy is the New Testament, and I believe that we MUST show mercy to the sinful as Christ demonstrates in JOHN chapter8.
The Cross.. the Cross.
DATCMOTO
Posts: 6,160
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7/7/2010 3:39:17 AM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 7/6/2010 8:41:04 AM, Marauder wrote:
At 7/6/2010 3:50:42 AM, DATCMOTO wrote:
At 7/5/2010 5:01:49 PM, Marauder wrote:
My church has a new pastor now. and this pastor is a she! And I am quickly learning that a great many have a particular problem with that (in general, I don't know about my church specifically), witch makes it good for starting debates. I would like practice defending the topic, is there any out there who are against having women pastors who would like to debate it? I'll take this issue on hear in the forum's or in a official debate, which ever you like.

1TIMOTHY2:12
I do not permit a woman to teach or to have authority over a man. She must be silent.


Because the Lord told me to obey this scripture I am no longer welcome at my church, So it's something of a hot potato for me!

To do otherwise is to simply to be worldly.

Man is the head of woman and Christ is he head of man.

It was Eve that was deceived not Adam; He knowingly sinned.

well that would make Adams sin worse wouldn't it? ergo women should be trusted more to be pastors than men.

DATC if I could just point you to Judges chapter 4, verses all of it http://www.biblegateway.com...

Most who stand against female pastorhood think this scripture is quoted to point of a judge was a woman once, and they counter with arguments about how judges are different from pastors, but the fact that Deborah is even in this scripture has nothing to do with why females should be allowed as pastors. Its the story that shows how God works.

My first point is about the fact that lay minister's (local pastors) exist. the church has had to resort to making non ordained people pastors because there is such a shortage in people willing to pastors now. This shows it is fact that Men are not stepping up to taking the responsability themselves to be pastors in the church.

in the story we find that when Barak (a man) refuses to step up to claim the honor that is his, God punishes him by given it to Jael (a woman). in this story that honor was the right to kill the general of the enemy. it was mans by all rights but man refused to head Gods call and do it, so it was given to woman.

so we have the fact that men are not stepping up to the plate, and we have the fact of what God does when they do not.

1TIMOTHY2:12 may have been relevant in the context of the time it was written in but we live in a different era with a different set of problems. and lack of pastors is one of them.

So Timothy IS time-contextual but JUDGES ISN'T!!!

Man, you're funny. Sorry, I meant worldly.
The Cross.. the Cross.