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Is Atheist Summer Camp Indoctrination?

ChristianPunk
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2/5/2015 7:52:43 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
I was looking up the idea of atheist summer camp, because I've never actually seen it though I've heard of it. To me, I can understand what a Christian summer camp is like, but I wonder what it would be to participate in an atheist summer camp. Has anybody been to one? What are the activities? Are there any things that can replace Christian indoctrination and become atheist indoctrination?
Envisage
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2/5/2015 8:14:47 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 2/5/2015 7:52:43 PM, ChristianPunk wrote:
I was looking up the idea of atheist summer camp, because I've never actually seen it though I've heard of it. To me, I can understand what a Christian summer camp is like, but I wonder what it would be to participate in an atheist summer camp. Has anybody been to one? What are the activities? Are there any things that can replace Christian indoctrination and become atheist indoctrination?



Wow, they exist. Wtf do they do there?
ChristianPunk
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2/5/2015 8:15:56 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 2/5/2015 8:14:47 PM, Envisage wrote:
At 2/5/2015 7:52:43 PM, ChristianPunk wrote:
I was looking up the idea of atheist summer camp, because I've never actually seen it though I've heard of it. To me, I can understand what a Christian summer camp is like, but I wonder what it would be to participate in an atheist summer camp. Has anybody been to one? What are the activities? Are there any things that can replace Christian indoctrination and become atheist indoctrination?



Wow, they exist. Wtf do they do there?

My question indeed.
dee-em
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2/5/2015 8:22:44 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 2/5/2015 7:52:43 PM, ChristianPunk wrote:
I was looking up the idea of atheist summer camp, because I've never actually seen it though I've heard of it. To me, I can understand what a Christian summer camp is like, but I wonder what it would be to participate in an atheist summer camp. Has anybody been to one? What are the activities? Are there any things that can replace Christian indoctrination and become atheist indoctrination?



They learn about evolution (real science instead of fairy tales) and sing John Lennon's Imagine instead of Kumbaya.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk...
dee-em
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2/5/2015 8:28:34 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
This bit at the end of the article cited above made me smile:

And to ensure religion is properly put in its place, children are given an 'invisible unicorn challenge'.

They are told that two invisible unicorns are in the camp. Neither can be seen, touched, heard or smelled, and neither leaves any trace. The only evidence that they exist is an old book.

Youngsters who may not have twigged what all this is supposed to show are invited to prove that the unicorns do not exist.

Those who do win the prize of a 10 pound note signed by Professor Dawkins.
However, since it is also impossible to do what the children are asked, Prof. Dawkins' 10 pounds remains safe.
Fly
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2/5/2015 8:32:04 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
When I first saw this thread, I thought that it is a sad reflection on atheism to have summer camps about it. Why not just secular camps?

Then I saw the video and thought that it is just as much a sad reflection on Christian culture that these kids repeatedly mention an escape from bullying for not believing.

But indoctrination? No, it sounds as though these kids lack belief already and are free to pursue various faiths if they choose...
"You don't have a right to be a jerk."
--Religion Forum's hypocrite extraordinaire serving up lulz
TN05
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2/5/2015 8:35:42 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 2/5/2015 8:14:47 PM, Envisage wrote:
At 2/5/2015 7:52:43 PM, ChristianPunk wrote:
I was looking up the idea of atheist summer camp, because I've never actually seen it though I've heard of it. To me, I can understand what a Christian summer camp is like, but I wonder what it would be to participate in an atheist summer camp. Has anybody been to one? What are the activities? Are there any things that can replace Christian indoctrination and become atheist indoctrination?

https://www.youtube.com...

Wow, they exist. Wtf do they do there?

This

http://youtube.com...
Double_R
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2/5/2015 8:39:55 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
The key component of indoctrination that makes it a "bad word" is being taught what to think as opposed to how to think. Most atheists are generally interested in the latter and encourage people to adopt their own way of viewing the world so I doubt an atheist summer camp would ever compare to religious indoctrination.
TN05
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2/5/2015 8:40:52 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 2/5/2015 8:35:42 PM, TN05 wrote:
At 2/5/2015 8:14:47 PM, Envisage wrote:
At 2/5/2015 7:52:43 PM, ChristianPunk wrote:
I was looking up the idea of atheist summer camp, because I've never actually seen it though I've heard of it. To me, I can understand what a Christian summer camp is like, but I wonder what it would be to participate in an atheist summer camp. Has anybody been to one? What are the activities? Are there any things that can replace Christian indoctrination and become atheist indoctrination?

https://www.youtube.com...

Wow, they exist. Wtf do they do there?

This

http://youtube.com...

Skip to about 1:50
YamaVonKarma
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2/5/2015 8:57:48 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 2/5/2015 7:52:43 PM, ChristianPunk wrote:
I was looking up the idea of atheist summer camp, because I've never actually seen it though I've heard of it. To me, I can understand what a Christian summer camp is like, but I wonder what it would be to participate in an atheist summer camp. Has anybody been to one? What are the activities? Are there any things that can replace Christian indoctrination and become atheist indoctrination?



Yeah... these kids are defiantly being scripted or merely repeating what they've heard adults say. In all my years, I've never seen someone under 12 who put that much thought into God's existence.
On another note, this summer camp is entirely pointless. It's a normal summer camp with an unusual (but genius) business gimmick.
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Sosoconfused
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2/5/2015 9:02:44 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 2/5/2015 7:52:43 PM, ChristianPunk wrote:
I was looking up the idea of atheist summer camp, because I've never actually seen it though I've heard of it. To me, I can understand what a Christian summer camp is like, but I wonder what it would be to participate in an atheist summer camp. Has anybody been to one? What are the activities? Are there any things that can replace Christian indoctrination and become atheist indoctrination?



So, basically it's no different than Bible camp.... To each their own I guess
DavidDiskin
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2/7/2015 12:40:42 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
Hi everyone. I'm the president of the California camp (Camp Quest West) and can try to answer a few questions and address a few misconceptions here.

Of course, I'm biased, so there's that.

One of the commenters nailed it when they watched the campers talk about the bullying they're victim to (from classmates, family, etc). That's the primary reason we exist, and why we're popular with non-religious families.

Even in California, there are many small towns and cities that are extremely conservative, and an atheist family has a tough time making friends and fitting in.

We're definitely not indoctrinating campers, though. We do teach the scientific method, evolution, critical thinking, world religions, philosophy, and for older campers some leadership skills. We occasionally talk about Humanism.

Typically we spend about 2 hours each day on that curriculum. The rest of the day is your typical "all-American" camp with archery, swimming, kayaking, astronomy, S'mores, campfires, and silly songs.

We don't tell campers that any faith or worldview is wrong, or that God doesn't exist, or anything of the sort. Our program is only 7 days long, and there's more important (and fun) things to explore and discuss.

Yes, we do sing Lennon's "Imagine", and a few others that are Humanist in nature, but mostly we'll sing the silly camp songs that any adult probably remembers from camp.

I can also verify that many of these kids are wicked smart and, because of their parents, are much more savvy about religion and science than your average kid. The conversations in the videos with our campers are real and genuine, and weren't scripted. Most of the kids are there because it's a fun place to spend a week without the pressures of the religious world. Others are young little atheists, following their parents' footsteps.

I can also tell you that we're extremely inclusive and progressive. Our campers and counselors are a mix of ethnicities, sexual orientation, age, and even religion (though mostly come from secular families).

Finally, Camp Quest is a non-profit run almost entirely by volunteers across the country. Last year, over 1,000 campers attended our camps, and I'm estimating we had about 300 volunteers, and 2 full-time employees.

In California, every donation we receive supports our Campership program to help send families that wouldn't otherwise be able to afford to register. I suspect other states are very similar.

I can understand the inclination to make a parallel between Jesus Camp and Camp Quest. But honestly if you watch the Jesus Camp documentary, you'll see what indoctrination through fear really is. It's hard to imagine Camp Quest being anything remotely like that.

Thanks for reading.
Harikrish
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2/7/2015 12:54:18 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 2/5/2015 7:52:43 PM, ChristianPunk wrote:
I was looking up the idea of atheist summer camp, because I've never actually seen it though I've heard of it. To me, I can understand what a Christian summer camp is like, but I wonder what it would be to participate in an atheist summer camp. Has anybody been to one? What are the activities? Are there any things that can replace Christian indoctrination and become atheist indoctrination?



Nothing can replace Christian indoctrination. But atheist camps can help children deal with Christian bigotry.
YassineB
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2/7/2015 1:15:32 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 2/5/2015 7:52:43 PM, ChristianPunk wrote:
I was looking up the idea of atheist summer camp, because I've never actually seen it though I've heard of it. To me, I can understand what a Christian summer camp is like, but I wonder what it would be to participate in an atheist summer camp. Has anybody been to one? What are the activities? Are there any things that can replace Christian indoctrination and become atheist indoctrination?



- Based on the fact that the overwhelming Majority of Atheists (idem for Theists) think they are critical when in reality they aren't, it's not unsafe to suggest that Atheist Camps will contain heavy dosage of indoctrination.

- One thing that should be made clear is the fact that Indoctrination Free teaching is unfeasible, for as long as one is learning he can't claim to fully master critical thought. A more appropriate & useful question would be: Are they teaching Critical Thinking (Logic & Philosophy) in Summer Camps? (regardless if the camps are Atheistic or Christian).
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ChristianPunk
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2/7/2015 6:14:03 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 2/7/2015 12:40:42 AM, DavidDiskin wrote:
Hi everyone. I'm the president of the California camp (Camp Quest West) and can try to answer a few questions and address a few misconceptions here.

Of course, I'm biased, so there's that.

One of the commenters nailed it when they watched the campers talk about the bullying they're victim to (from classmates, family, etc). That's the primary reason we exist, and why we're popular with non-religious families.

Even in California, there are many small towns and cities that are extremely conservative, and an atheist family has a tough time making friends and fitting in.

We're definitely not indoctrinating campers, though. We do teach the scientific method, evolution, critical thinking, world religions, philosophy, and for older campers some leadership skills. We occasionally talk about Humanism.

Typically we spend about 2 hours each day on that curriculum. The rest of the day is your typical "all-American" camp with archery, swimming, kayaking, astronomy, S'mores, campfires, and silly songs.

We don't tell campers that any faith or worldview is wrong, or that God doesn't exist, or anything of the sort. Our program is only 7 days long, and there's more important (and fun) things to explore and discuss.

Yes, we do sing Lennon's "Imagine", and a few others that are Humanist in nature, but mostly we'll sing the silly camp songs that any adult probably remembers from camp.

I can also verify that many of these kids are wicked smart and, because of their parents, are much more savvy about religion and science than your average kid. The conversations in the videos with our campers are real and genuine, and weren't scripted. Most of the kids are there because it's a fun place to spend a week without the pressures of the religious world. Others are young little atheists, following their parents' footsteps.

I can also tell you that we're extremely inclusive and progressive. Our campers and counselors are a mix of ethnicities, sexual orientation, age, and even religion (though mostly come from secular families).

Finally, Camp Quest is a non-profit run almost entirely by volunteers across the country. Last year, over 1,000 campers attended our camps, and I'm estimating we had about 300 volunteers, and 2 full-time employees.

In California, every donation we receive supports our Campership program to help send families that wouldn't otherwise be able to afford to register. I suspect other states are very similar.

I can understand the inclination to make a parallel between Jesus Camp and Camp Quest. But honestly if you watch the Jesus Camp documentary, you'll see what indoctrination through fear really is. It's hard to imagine Camp Quest being anything remotely like that.

Thanks for reading.

Thanks for clarifying. ^^
Harikrish
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2/7/2015 8:52:20 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 2/7/2015 1:15:32 AM, YassineB wrote:
At 2/5/2015 7:52:43 PM, ChristianPunk wrote:
I was looking up the idea of atheist summer camp, because I've never actually seen it though I've heard of it. To me, I can understand what a Christian summer camp is like, but I wonder what it would be to participate in an atheist summer camp. Has anybody been to one? What are the activities? Are there any things that can replace Christian indoctrination and become atheist indoctrination?



- Based on the fact that the overwhelming Majority of Atheists (idem for Theists) think they are critical when in reality they aren't, it's not unsafe to suggest that Atheist Camps will contain heavy dosage of indoctrination.

- One thing that should be made clear is the fact that Indoctrination Free teaching is unfeasible, for as long as one is learning he can't claim to fully master critical thought. A more appropriate & useful question would be: Are they teaching Critical Thinking (Logic & Philosophy) in Summer Camps? (regardless if the camps are Atheistic or Christian).

You can tell the kids are independent thinkers and not having parents indoctrinating them with their religious burden are much more receptive of secular activities and, a willingness to accept different world views. They seem mature for their age and that might be a result of having open minds about the nature of things without being overwhelmed by an invisible God or forced to believe in things unseen.
These camps help to develop realists as many have said keeping God out of normal activities is quite liberating and not having to pray at meals to a God they cannot see frees them from the fear of the unknown.
They even recognize religious people are afraid of the unknown and need somebody like a God because they don't know how to deal with the unknown. But they learn there are practical alternatives than getting down on ones knees praying to the unknown to deal with the unknown.
They are even free to discuss religion and God at these camps and even discuss philosophy. These are the right steps towards secularism where everyone is welcomed regardless of their orientation.
Critical thinking is something that should be taught at churches and mosques where it is most wanted. Atheists camps are for kids who have not closed their minds who are realists by nature and free from religious indoctrination. They are shown how the world can be enjoyed as it is and not to waste their lives preparing for a world that may never be except in the minds of religious bigots with low self esteem condemned by an invisible God for the sins of the first primates Adam and Eve.
Please support these camps.
bornofgod
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2/7/2015 12:46:18 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 2/5/2015 7:52:43 PM, ChristianPunk wrote:
I was looking up the idea of atheist summer camp, because I've never actually seen it though I've heard of it. To me, I can understand what a Christian summer camp is like, but I wonder what it would be to participate in an atheist summer camp. Has anybody been to one? What are the activities? Are there any things that can replace Christian indoctrination and become atheist indoctrination?



All religions and the sciences come from what is observed and can be measured. These observed illusions are what deceived God's people from their true created existence in God.
DanneJeRusse
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2/7/2015 5:06:30 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 2/7/2015 1:15:32 AM, YassineB wrote:
At 2/5/2015 7:52:43 PM, ChristianPunk wrote:
I was looking up the idea of atheist summer camp, because I've never actually seen it though I've heard of it. To me, I can understand what a Christian summer camp is like, but I wonder what it would be to participate in an atheist summer camp. Has anybody been to one? What are the activities? Are there any things that can replace Christian indoctrination and become atheist indoctrination?



- Based on the fact that the overwhelming Majority of Atheists (idem for Theists) think they are critical when in reality they aren't,

LOL. You wouldn't know critical thinking if it jumped up and bit you, considering the irrational beliefs you hold.

it's not unsafe to suggest that Atheist Camps will contain heavy dosage of indoctrination.

LOL. Sorry, those are not religious camps. They are not being told to believe in an invisible super being, or else burn for an eternity. They are being taught to think for themselves, make up their own minds and decisions.

- One thing that should be made clear is the fact that Indoctrination Free teaching is unfeasible, for as long as one is learning he can't claim to fully master critical thought. A more appropriate & useful question would be: Are they teaching Critical Thinking (Logic & Philosophy) in Summer Camps? (regardless if the camps are Atheistic or Christian).

Do you even know what indoctrination means? Try looking it up.
Marrying a 6 year old and waiting until she reaches puberty and maturity before having consensual sex is better than walking up to
a stranger in a bar and proceeding to have relations with no valid proof of the intent of the person. Muhammad wins. ~ Fatihah
If they don't want to be killed then they have to subdue to the Islamic laws. - Uncung
Without God, you are lower than sh!t. ~ SpiritandTruth
Mhykiel
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2/7/2015 11:58:18 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 2/7/2015 1:15:32 AM, YassineB wrote:
At 2/5/2015 7:52:43 PM, ChristianPunk wrote:
I was looking up the idea of atheist summer camp, because I've never actually seen it though I've heard of it. To me, I can understand what a Christian summer camp is like, but I wonder what it would be to participate in an atheist summer camp. Has anybody been to one? What are the activities? Are there any things that can replace Christian indoctrination and become atheist indoctrination?



- Based on the fact that the overwhelming Majority of Atheists (idem for Theists) think they are critical when in reality they aren't, it's not unsafe to suggest that Atheist Camps will contain heavy dosage of indoctrination.

- One thing that should be made clear is the fact that Indoctrination Free teaching is unfeasible, for as long as one is learning he can't claim to fully master critical thought. A more appropriate & useful question would be: Are they teaching Critical Thinking (Logic & Philosophy) in Summer Camps? (regardless if the camps are Atheistic or Christian).

Thank you Yass, my sentiment exactly. You can't have Education completely free of indoctrination.

And this is why I sometimes say that colleges and secular schools are indoctrinating children. And some to a level I feel against a person's rights and freedoms.

But you also made the point of saying along with these illustrations of invisible unicorns being like God (strawman I feel because God does indeed leave trace evidence) are they..

Teaching reason, decision making skills, and critical thinking skills? Are they being given the tools so they can make educated mature decisions? Or like so many christian camps atheist camps, public schools, college universities, ect.. Are they being told what to think and how to think about things?

And I agree whole heartily with you. As the indoctrination becomes more the goal educating and discussion about decision making and reasonable thinking lessons. this is true for theist, atheist, militant, new age ect.. all kinds of groups.
YassineB
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2/8/2015 3:44:32 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 2/7/2015 8:52:20 AM, Harikrish wrote:
You can tell the kids are independent thinkers and not having parents indoctrinating them with their religious burden are much more receptive of secular activities and, a willingness to accept different world views. They seem mature for their age and that might be a result of having open minds about the nature of things without being overwhelmed by an invisible God or forced to believe in things unseen.
These camps help to develop realists as many have said keeping God out of normal activities is quite liberating and not having to pray at meals to a God they cannot see frees them from the fear of the unknown.
They even recognize religious people are afraid of the unknown and need somebody like a God because they don't know how to deal with the unknown. But they learn there are practical alternatives than getting down on ones knees praying to the unknown to deal with the unknown.
They are even free to discuss religion and God at these camps and even discuss philosophy. These are the right steps towards secularism where everyone is welcomed regardless of their orientation.
Critical thinking is something that should be taught at churches and mosques where it is most wanted. Atheists camps are for kids who have not closed their minds who are realists by nature and free from religious indoctrination. They are shown how the world can be enjoyed as it is and not to waste their lives preparing for a world that may never be except in the minds of religious bigots with low self esteem condemned by an invisible God for the sins of the first primates Adam and Eve.
Please support these camps.

- Seems to me you're against Christian Indoctrination, yet have no problem with Atheist Indoctrination. You already hold the conviction that Atheism is True as opposed to Theism, & a Theist will have exactly your position except with opposite beliefs. Plus, you're assuming Critical Thinking is exclusive for Atheists, that's a false & utterly ignorant assumption.

- A serious critical discussing about Religion or Irreligion can only happen between very advanced Philosophers, the rest are just followers, some may have more critical tools that others, but all are dogmatic, no matter what, especially those who know very little, such as Kids.
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Harikrish
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2/8/2015 11:02:58 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 2/8/2015 3:44:32 AM, YassineB wrote:
At 2/7/2015 8:52:20 AM, Harikrish wrote:
You can tell the kids are independent thinkers and not having parents indoctrinating them with their religious burden are much more receptive of secular activities and, a willingness to accept different world views. They seem mature for their age and that might be a result of having open minds about the nature of things without being overwhelmed by an invisible God or forced to believe in things unseen.
These camps help to develop realists as many have said keeping God out of normal activities is quite liberating and not having to pray at meals to a God they cannot see frees them from the fear of the unknown.
They even recognize religious people are afraid of the unknown and need somebody like a God because they don't know how to deal with the unknown. But they learn there are practical alternatives than getting down on ones knees praying to the unknown to deal with the unknown.
They are even free to discuss religion and God at these camps and even discuss philosophy. These are the right steps towards secularism where everyone is welcomed regardless of their orientation.
Critical thinking is something that should be taught at churches and mosques where it is most wanted. Atheists camps are for kids who have not closed their minds who are realists by nature and free from religious indoctrination. They are shown how the world can be enjoyed as it is and not to waste their lives preparing for a world that may never be except in the minds of religious bigots with low self esteem condemned by an invisible God for the sins of the first primates Adam and Eve.
Please support these camps.

- Seems to me you're against Christian Indoctrination, yet have no problem with Atheist Indoctrination. You already hold the conviction that Atheism is True as opposed to Theism, & a Theist will have exactly your position except with opposite beliefs. Plus, you're assuming Critical Thinking is exclusive for Atheists, that's a false & utterly ignorant assumption.

- A serious critical discussing about Religion or Irreligion can only happen between very advanced Philosophers, the rest are just followers, some may have more critical tools that others, but all are dogmatic, no matter what, especially those who know very little, such as Kids.

You must belong to the group that God ordered to be circumcised and to pray 50 times a day. That is not indoctrination, it is punishment for your sinning nature. The prophet claims the daily prayer was reduced to 5 times. But that is not true. Because most Muslims do not believe in the prophets ascension to heaven. He changed the number on his own without authority because he had too many wives and praying 50 times a day would not give him enough time to perform his duties as a harem keeper.
Those young children would not have been safe under Muslim supervision. The girls would be forced to marry at the age of 6. It would not be a camp for children. You and your Islamic beliefs would have turned it into a camp of child brides. I guess the boys would be enrolled in some Islamic liberation terrorist organization after a week of Islamic indoctrination.
No, please support the atheist camps. And keep the priests and imams out if you love your children.
YassineB
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2/8/2015 11:05:54 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 2/8/2015 11:02:58 AM, Harikrish wrote:
You must belong to the group that God ordered to be circumcised and to pray 50 times a day. That is not indoctrination, it is punishment for your sinning nature. The prophet claims the daily prayer was reduced to 5 times. But that is not true. Because most Muslims do not believe in the prophets ascension to heaven. He changed the number on his own without authority because he had too many wives and praying 50 times a day would not give him enough time to perform his duties as a harem keeper.
Those young children would not have been safe under Muslim supervision. The girls would be forced to marry at the age of 6. It would not be a camp for children. You and your Islamic beliefs would have turned it into a camp of child brides. I guess the boys would be enrolled in some Islamic liberation terrorist organization after a week of Islamic indoctrination.
No, please support the atheist camps. And keep the priests and imams out if you love your children.

- What?! They taught you these ridiculous ignorant lies in Summer Camp too?!
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DanneJeRusse
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2/8/2015 11:14:24 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 2/8/2015 3:44:32 AM, YassineB wrote:

- Seems to me you're against Christian Indoctrination, yet have no problem with Atheist Indoctrination. You already hold the conviction that Atheism is True as opposed to Theism, & a Theist will have exactly your position except with opposite beliefs. Plus, you're assuming Critical Thinking is exclusive for Atheists, that's a false & utterly ignorant assumption.

Saying that atheism is indoctrinated is the antithesis of Critical Thinking, which you have yet to show in any way, shape or form.

- A serious critical discussing about Religion or Irreligion can only happen between very advanced Philosophers,

LOL. And, you are one of those "advanced Philosophers"?

the rest are just followers, some may have more critical tools that others, but all are dogmatic, no matter what, especially those who know very little, such as Kids.

And Muslims.
Marrying a 6 year old and waiting until she reaches puberty and maturity before having consensual sex is better than walking up to
a stranger in a bar and proceeding to have relations with no valid proof of the intent of the person. Muhammad wins. ~ Fatihah
If they don't want to be killed then they have to subdue to the Islamic laws. - Uncung
Without God, you are lower than sh!t. ~ SpiritandTruth
YassineB
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2/8/2015 11:19:21 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 2/8/2015 11:14:24 AM, DanneJeRusse wrote:
At 2/8/2015 3:44:32 AM, YassineB wrote:

- Seems to me you're against Christian Indoctrination, yet have no problem with Atheist Indoctrination. You already hold the conviction that Atheism is True as opposed to Theism, & a Theist will have exactly your position except with opposite beliefs. Plus, you're assuming Critical Thinking is exclusive for Atheists, that's a false & utterly ignorant assumption.

Saying that atheism is indoctrinated is the antithesis of Critical Thinking, which you have yet to show in any way, shape or form.

- A serious critical discussing about Religion or Irreligion can only happen between very advanced Philosophers,

LOL. And, you are one of those "advanced Philosophers"?

the rest are just followers, some may have more critical tools that others, but all are dogmatic, no matter what, especially those who know very little, such as Kids.

And Muslims.

- Stalker much?
Current Debates In Voting Period:

- The Qur'an We Have Today is Not What Muhammad Dictated Verbatim. Vs. @Envisage:
http://www.debate.org...

- Drawing Contest. Vs. @purpleduck:
http://www.debate.org...

"It is perfectly permissible to vote on sources without reading them" bluesteel.
Harikrish
Posts: 11,014
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2/8/2015 11:25:29 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 2/8/2015 11:05:54 AM, YassineB wrote:
At 2/8/2015 11:02:58 AM, Harikrish wrote:
You must belong to the group that God ordered to be circumcised and to pray 50 times a day. That is not indoctrination, it is punishment for your sinning nature. The prophet claims the daily prayer was reduced to 5 times. But that is not true. Because most Muslims do not believe in the prophets ascension to heaven. He changed the number on his own without authority because he had too many wives and praying 50 times a day would not give him enough time to perform his duties as a harem keeper.
Those young children would not have been safe under Muslim supervision. The girls would be forced to marry at the age of 6. It would not be a camp for children. You and your Islamic beliefs would have turned it into a camp of child brides. I guess the boys would be enrolled in some Islamic liberation terrorist organization after a week of Islamic indoctrination.
No, please support the atheist camps. And keep the priests and imams out if you love your children.

- What?! They taught you these ridiculous ignorant lies in Summer Camp too?!

No, this is what the illiterate prophet taught. Asia was six when she was betrothed the prophet. Child brides are a common practice in Islamic countries. The prophet claims he ascended to heaven where he successfully negotiated to have prayers reduced to 5 times instead of the original 50 times marked for Muslims. Madarasa are Islamic schools used to indoctrinate children to become jihadists.
There are 800 million illiterate Muslims out of 1.4 billion.(6 out if 10 cannot read). Only 11% of Muslims can read Arabic which is the language the Quran is written in. So the majority of Muslims cannot read the Quran. The majority of Muslims have not read the Quran. The prophet himself was an illiterate Arab. He founded a religion that promotes and enshrines illiteracy.
I won't be surprised if you are one of those who don't read Arabic either and can be considered an Islamic illiterate.
DanneJeRusse
Posts: 12,652
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2/8/2015 11:27:32 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 2/8/2015 11:19:21 AM, YassineB wrote:
At 2/8/2015 11:14:24 AM, DanneJeRusse wrote:
At 2/8/2015 3:44:32 AM, YassineB wrote:

- Seems to me you're against Christian Indoctrination, yet have no problem with Atheist Indoctrination. You already hold the conviction that Atheism is True as opposed to Theism, & a Theist will have exactly your position except with opposite beliefs. Plus, you're assuming Critical Thinking is exclusive for Atheists, that's a false & utterly ignorant assumption.

Saying that atheism is indoctrinated is the antithesis of Critical Thinking, which you have yet to show in any way, shape or form.

- A serious critical discussing about Religion or Irreligion can only happen between very advanced Philosophers,

LOL. And, you are one of those "advanced Philosophers"?

the rest are just followers, some may have more critical tools that others, but all are dogmatic, no matter what, especially those who know very little, such as Kids.

And Muslims.

- Stalker much?

Yes, I understand the Islamic propagandist must resort to those kinds of tactics when they are caught lying. Thank you for that. :)
Marrying a 6 year old and waiting until she reaches puberty and maturity before having consensual sex is better than walking up to
a stranger in a bar and proceeding to have relations with no valid proof of the intent of the person. Muhammad wins. ~ Fatihah
If they don't want to be killed then they have to subdue to the Islamic laws. - Uncung
Without God, you are lower than sh!t. ~ SpiritandTruth
YassineB
Posts: 1,003
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2/8/2015 11:30:34 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 2/8/2015 11:25:29 AM, Harikrish wrote:
No, this is what the illiterate prophet taught. Asia was six when she was betrothed the prophet. Child brides are a common practice in Islamic countries. The prophet claims he ascended to heaven where he successfully negotiated to have prayers reduced to 5 times instead of the original 50 times marked for Muslims. Madarasa are Islamic schools used to indoctrinate children to become jihadists.
There are 800 million illiterate Muslims out of 1.4 billion.(6 out if 10 cannot read). Only 11% of Muslims can read Arabic which is the language the Quran is written in. So the majority of Muslims cannot read the Quran. The majority of Muslims have not read the Quran. The prophet himself was an illiterate Arab. He founded a religion that promotes and enshrines illiteracy.
I won't be surprised if you are one of those who don't read Arabic either and can be considered an Islamic illiterate.

- This is most ignorant comment I read so far on this website, if I ever succeeded in inaugurating my life long goal of the Museum of Ignorance, I'll remember to put your comment on display, right at the entrance.
Current Debates In Voting Period:

- The Qur'an We Have Today is Not What Muhammad Dictated Verbatim. Vs. @Envisage:
http://www.debate.org...

- Drawing Contest. Vs. @purpleduck:
http://www.debate.org...

"It is perfectly permissible to vote on sources without reading them" bluesteel.
YassineB
Posts: 1,003
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2/8/2015 11:31:15 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 2/8/2015 11:27:32 AM, DanneJeRusse wrote:
At 2/8/2015 11:19:21 AM, YassineB wrote:
At 2/8/2015 11:14:24 AM, DanneJeRusse wrote:
At 2/8/2015 3:44:32 AM, YassineB wrote:

- Seems to me you're against Christian Indoctrination, yet have no problem with Atheist Indoctrination. You already hold the conviction that Atheism is True as opposed to Theism, & a Theist will have exactly your position except with opposite beliefs. Plus, you're assuming Critical Thinking is exclusive for Atheists, that's a false & utterly ignorant assumption.

Saying that atheism is indoctrinated is the antithesis of Critical Thinking, which you have yet to show in any way, shape or form.

- A serious critical discussing about Religion or Irreligion can only happen between very advanced Philosophers,

LOL. And, you are one of those "advanced Philosophers"?

the rest are just followers, some may have more critical tools that others, but all are dogmatic, no matter what, especially those who know very little, such as Kids.

And Muslims.

- Stalker much?

Yes, I understand the Islamic propagandist must resort to those kinds of tactics when they are caught lying. Thank you for that. :)

- Don't mention it :) .
Current Debates In Voting Period:

- The Qur'an We Have Today is Not What Muhammad Dictated Verbatim. Vs. @Envisage:
http://www.debate.org...

- Drawing Contest. Vs. @purpleduck:
http://www.debate.org...

"It is perfectly permissible to vote on sources without reading them" bluesteel.
Harikrish
Posts: 11,014
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2/8/2015 11:44:36 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 2/8/2015 11:30:34 AM, YassineB wrote:
At 2/8/2015 11:25:29 AM, Harikrish wrote:
No, this is what the illiterate prophet taught. Asia was six when she was betrothed the prophet. Child brides are a common practice in Islamic countries. The prophet claims he ascended to heaven where he successfully negotiated to have prayers reduced to 5 times instead of the original 50 times marked for Muslims. Madarasa are Islamic schools used to indoctrinate children to become jihadists.
There are 800 million illiterate Muslims out of 1.4 billion.(6 out if 10 cannot read). Only 11% of Muslims can read Arabic which is the language the Quran is written in. So the majority of Muslims cannot read the Quran. The majority of Muslims have not read the Quran. The prophet himself was an illiterate Arab. He founded a religion that promotes and enshrines illiteracy.
I won't be surprised if you are one of those who don't read Arabic either and can be considered an Islamic illiterate.

- This is most ignorant comment I read so far on this website, if I ever succeeded in inaugurating my life long goal of the Museum of Ignorance, I'll remember to put your comment on display, right at the entrance.
There is a reason why Islamists are killing more Muslims than people of other faiths. It is because less that 11% of Muslims can read the Quran or have read the Quran. The illiterate muslims are the infidels that is a disgrace to Islam and are being targeted first.
Now 800 million illiterate Muslims is breathtaking. Islam created these illiterate and out of shame covered their faces with the burkas. Now even the Islamic men cover their faces out of shame. Only the camels are allowed to roam freely without shame.
YassineB
Posts: 1,003
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2/8/2015 11:52:14 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 2/8/2015 11:44:36 AM, Harikrish wrote:
At 2/8/2015 11:30:34 AM, YassineB wrote:
At 2/8/2015 11:25:29 AM, Harikrish wrote:
No, this is what the illiterate prophet taught. Asia was six when she was betrothed the prophet. Child brides are a common practice in Islamic countries. The prophet claims he ascended to heaven where he successfully negotiated to have prayers reduced to 5 times instead of the original 50 times marked for Muslims. Madarasa are Islamic schools used to indoctrinate children to become jihadists.
There are 800 million illiterate Muslims out of 1.4 billion.(6 out if 10 cannot read). Only 11% of Muslims can read Arabic which is the language the Quran is written in. So the majority of Muslims cannot read the Quran. The majority of Muslims have not read the Quran. The prophet himself was an illiterate Arab. He founded a religion that promotes and enshrines illiteracy.
I won't be surprised if you are one of those who don't read Arabic either and can be considered an Islamic illiterate.

- This is most ignorant comment I read so far on this website, if I ever succeeded in inaugurating my life long goal of the Museum of Ignorance, I'll remember to put your comment on display, right at the entrance.
There is a reason why Islamists are killing more Muslims than people of other faiths. It is because less that 11% of Muslims can read the Quran or have read the Quran. The illiterate muslims are the infidels that is a disgrace to Islam and are being targeted first.
Now 800 million illiterate Muslims is breathtaking. Islam created these illiterate and out of shame covered their faces with the burkas. Now even the Islamic men cover their faces out of shame. Only the camels are allowed to roam freely without shame.

- Now you're sounding like a troll, or maybe a hardcore hater.
Current Debates In Voting Period:

- The Qur'an We Have Today is Not What Muhammad Dictated Verbatim. Vs. @Envisage:
http://www.debate.org...

- Drawing Contest. Vs. @purpleduck:
http://www.debate.org...

"It is perfectly permissible to vote on sources without reading them" bluesteel.