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Questions for Christians

annhasle
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7/5/2010 7:07:58 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
Sorry about the exclusion of other Religions... the book I'm reading right now had a chapter about Questions to Ask Yourself if you were Christian and it made me curious. How would a Christian answer these?

1)The Bible says that "the Lord thy God is a jealous God." But if you are omnipotent, omniscient, omnipresent, eternal and the creator of all that exists, whom could He possibly be jealous of?

2) Why would the Father of all mankind have a Chosen people and favor them over the other nations on earth?

3) If all Christians worship the same God, why can they not put aside their theological differences and co-operate actively with one another?

4) How could a loving Heavenly Father create an endless Hell and, over centuries, consign millions of people to it because they do not or cannot or will not accept certain religious beliefs? And, having done so, how could he torment them forever?

These seem to be popular questions, at least with the atheists I know in my city. Can anyone answer these?
I'm not back. This idiot just upset me which made me stop lurking.
Marauder
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7/5/2010 7:24:52 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 7/5/2010 7:07:58 PM, annhasle wrote:
Sorry about the exclusion of other Religions... the book I'm reading right now had a chapter about Questions to Ask Yourself if you were Christian and it made me curious. How would a Christian answer these?

1)The Bible says that "the Lord thy God is a jealous God." But if you are omnipotent, omniscient, omnipresent, eternal and the creator of all that exists, whom could He possibly be jealous of?
That part of scripture is like always the preface to 'dont worship idols'. Jelosy is something you can feel when somethings else has something you dont. in the case of idols, and carved stone ends up with our love, rather than God getting our love, and surly he deserves it more.
because of the unique way he created us, with free will and all that jazz, he can be jealous for our love

2) Why would the Father of all mankind have a Chosen people and favor them over the other nations on earth?
this implies chosen for his love alone. they are chosen to be his people, his nation. they are chosen to be the example nation.

3) If all Christians worship the same God, why can they not put aside their theological differences and co-operate actively with one another?
because our church is full of petty bickering old people who act like they worship the bulding rather than God.
dont listen to that though, I just type that in breife cynical humor. on a most serious note this because people are not perfect, and even more interesting to note, most of time people are not perfect in defirrent ways.
I dont know if this helps but we do try to get along and put aside our differences. http://4simpsons.wordpress.com...

4) How could a loving Heavenly Father create an endless Hell and, over centuries, consign millions of people to it because they do not or cannot or will not accept certain religious beliefs? And, having done so, how could he torment them forever?

do read all of this if you can before you let question number 4 be the reason your not a christian. http://www.preteristarchive.com...
One act of Rebellion created all the darkness and evil in the world; One life of Total Obedience created a path back to eternity and God.

A Scout is Obedient.
JustCallMeTarzan
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7/5/2010 8:52:10 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 7/5/2010 7:07:58 PM, annhasle wrote:

4) How could a loving Heavenly Father create an endless Hell and, over centuries, consign millions of people to it because they do not or cannot or will not accept certain religious beliefs? And, having done so, how could he torment them forever?

Because while the Bible says God is all powerful, all knowing, everywhere, eternal, and the creator of the universe... it doesn't really give you the impression that God happens to be a good character.

http://www.debate.org...
http://www.debate.org...
http://www.debate.org...
http://www.debate.org...

Just a couple thoughts....
comoncents
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7/5/2010 9:23:46 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 7/5/2010 8:52:10 PM, JustCallMeTarzan wrote:
At 7/5/2010 7:07:58 PM, annhasle wrote:

4) How could a loving Heavenly Father create an endless Hell and, over centuries, consign millions of people to it because they do not or cannot or will not accept certain religious beliefs? And, having done so, how could he torment them forever?

Because while the Bible says God is all powerful, all knowing, everywhere, eternal, and the creator of the universe... it doesn't really give you the impression that God happens to be a good character.

http://www.debate.org...
http://www.debate.org...
http://www.debate.org...
http://www.debate.org...

Just a couple thoughts....

Did you ever get into Law School; Have you taken your LSAT?
Strikeeagle84015
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7/5/2010 9:31:20 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 7/5/2010 7:07:58 PM, annhasle wrote:
Sorry about the exclusion of other Religions... the book I'm reading right now had a chapter about Questions to Ask Yourself if you were Christian and it made me curious. How would a Christian answer these?

1)The Bible says that "the Lord thy God is a jealous God." But if you are omnipotent, omniscient, omnipresent, eternal and the creator of all that exists, whom could He possibly be jealous of?

This usage of the word jealous was lost somewhat in translation it originally had a different connotation in Hebrew

2) Why would the Father of all mankind have a Chosen people and favor them over the other nations on earth?

I can't answer this one fully but it probably has something to do with the Abrahamic covenant
3) If all Christians worship the same God, why can they not put aside their theological differences and co-operate actively with one another?

Because we all have different interpretations of what and who God is and what is the proper way to worship him
4) How could a loving Heavenly Father create an endless Hell and, over centuries, consign millions of people to it because they do not or cannot or will not accept certain religious beliefs? And, having done so, how could he torment them forever?

This shows a fundemental misunderstanding about he nature of God. I am currently putting together a website to try and answer this if you want me to I can notify you when I am done

These seem to be popular questions, at least with the atheists I know in my city. Can anyone answer these?
: At 8/17/2010 7:17:56 AM, I-am-a-panda wrote:
: Hey dawg, i herd you like evangelical trolls so we put a bible thumper in yo bible thumper so you can troll while you troll!

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Ayedewynn
Posts: 23
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7/5/2010 10:05:53 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
I just saw this post on the forums and thought I might try my hand at offering an explanation. I hope that it proves suitable. I'll try to keep the personal beliefs to a minimum, though, obviously the answers to the questions ARE based upon my personal beliefs. I was just saying that I'm not going to try to convert you, if that is not what you want... Anyway, read on for the answers.

1) As for the first question, "Who could God be jealous of?"
God is "jealous", in a manner of speaking, of us, his creation. This simply means that he desires for us to love him, and to have a personal relationship with him.

2) As for the second question, "Why would God favor a certain people over another?"
The Israelites were God's Chosen People because they chose to follow him. They chose him as their God and personal savior. Because of this, he blessed them. Psalm 115:13 says that "He will bless them that fear the LORD, both great and small" (KJV)

3) As for the third question, "What stands between cross-denominational Christian cooperation?"
Well, as you said, all Christian denominations believe in the same God. However, this does not mean that they all believe he has the same characteristics. In fact, there are startlingly varying views about the characteristics of God. On the other hand, it is not to say that Christian denominations do not cooperate. Churches often participate in community and religious activities together, regardless of denomination.

4) As for the fourth question, this is harder. It was, "How could God create a hell in which he would punish and torture for eternity those who do not hold the required beliefs?"
Yes, God created Hell. Yes, it is his desire that we should follow him and grow closer to him. However, it is not his desire to punish us and torture us in hell. God loves all people more than you can imagine. God does not want to bring this pain and suffering upon us. However, when Lucifer rebelled against God, taking 1/3 of all of the angels in heaven with him, he thought he could become more powerful than God. Lucifer, or Satan, or the Devil is the King of this World. He is the king of earthly things, and all sin. If we do not follow God, we follow the King of this World, Satan. God has promised that, after he comes and takes his believers away, He will throw Satan, and all of his followers into the Lake of Fire where they will stay and suffer for eternity. This is because Satan believed that he could be more powerful than God, and he rebelled. Therefore, those that are followers of Satan, those that do not believe in God, will be thrown into Hell with him when the time comes. It is not that God will delight in torturing the "non-believers", it is that he has promised to "banish" those that opposed him, and he is going to keep his promise.

Sorry for the long post. I look forward to hearing responses or other further posts!
mattrodstrom
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7/5/2010 10:18:30 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 7/5/2010 10:05:53 PM, Ayedewynn wrote:
Lucifer, or Satan, or the Devil is the King of this World. He is the king of earthly things

This is why Christians are Nihilists.

Everything, Real, which has meaning they deny and denigrate.

They Hate everything of this world and deny any meaning found in it... preferring to cling to "meaning" which doesn't exist.

This Is why Saint Augustine the Hippopotamus Abandoned his wife and children when he Fully converted.
Those WORLDLY things of Meaning, those "Lesser Goods" ARE sin. ALL that is meaningful to such people is GOD.

AND the only reason people come up with God is because they're not content with the Inherent Meaning wrapped up in Worldly Things. THEY reject it... and want something more so they delude themselves.
"He who does not know how to put his will into things at least puts a meaning into them: that is, he believes there is a will in them already."

Metaphysics:
"The science.. which deals with the fundamental errors of mankind - but as if they were the fundamental truths."
popculturepooka
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7/5/2010 10:28:08 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 7/5/2010 10:18:30 PM, mattrodstrom wrote:
At 7/5/2010 10:05:53 PM, Ayedewynn wrote:
Lucifer, or Satan, or the Devil is the King of this World. He is the king of earthly things

This is why Christians are Nihilists.

Everything, Real, which has meaning they deny and denigrate.

They Hate everything of this world and deny any meaning found in it... preferring to cling to "meaning" which doesn't exist.

This Is why Saint Augustine the Hippopotamus Abandoned his wife and children when he Fully converted.
Those WORLDLY things of Meaning, those "Lesser Goods" ARE sin. ALL that is meaningful to such people is GOD.

AND the only reason people come up with God is because they're not content with the Inherent Meaning wrapped up in Worldly Things. THEY reject it... and want something more so they delude themselves.

What is your definition of "worldy things"?
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GeoLaureate8
Posts: 12,252
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7/5/2010 10:30:28 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 7/5/2010 10:28:08 PM, popculturepooka wrote:
What is your definition of "worldy things"?

Things that aren't spiritual, not heavenly, and not Godly.
"We must raise the standard of the Old, free, decentralized, and strictly limited Republic."
-- Murray Rothbard

"The worst thing that can happen to a good cause is, not to be skillfully attacked, but to be ineptly defended."
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GeoLaureate8
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7/5/2010 10:34:03 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 7/5/2010 10:18:30 PM, mattrodstrom wrote:
This is why Christians are Nihilists.

This is way off. Christians are the opposite of Nihilists. And it does not follow that they are Nihilists because they reject worldly things and everything that is real. Btw, they do accept reality, but they add delusions to it.
"We must raise the standard of the Old, free, decentralized, and strictly limited Republic."
-- Murray Rothbard

"The worst thing that can happen to a good cause is, not to be skillfully attacked, but to be ineptly defended."
-- Frederic Bastiat
Ayedewynn
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7/5/2010 10:37:44 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 7/5/2010 10:18:30 PM, mattrodstrom wrote:
At 7/5/2010 10:05:53 PM, Ayedewynn wrote:
Lucifer, or Satan, or the Devil is the King of this World. He is the king of earthly things

This is why Christians are Nihilists.

Everything, Real, which has meaning they deny and denigrate.

They Hate everything of this world and deny any meaning found in it... preferring to cling to "meaning" which doesn't exist.

This Is why Saint Augustine the Hippopotamus Abandoned his wife and children when he Fully converted.
Those WORLDLY things of Meaning, those "Lesser Goods" ARE sin. ALL that is meaningful to such people is GOD.

AND the only reason people come up with God is because they're not content with the Inherent Meaning wrapped up in Worldly Things. THEY reject it... and want something more so they delude themselves.

I apologize for being frank, but this is one of the most nonsensical responses I have seen. First of all, I do not deny that earthly things are real, and I said nothing in my post that would have lead you to believe thusly. Secondly, I do not hate everything in this world. In fact, I love a lot of things of this world. Ice cream and my dog are two of those things. Uh, I was not aware that St. Augustine was a hippopotamus... Thirdly, and I apologize if my post lead you to believe this: not everything that exists is sin, as you seem to think that I said. I was merely assuming that you would understand the "earthly things" that I put in there. Such things include stealing, dishonesty, immorality, etc. Furthermore, you contradicted yourself by saying that everything that is meaningful to "such people" (I assume you meant Christians) is God. That is not true, first of all. As I said before, other things mean something to me. You also said that because we are not content with the inherent meaning of things wrapped up in worldly things, (here you are being both vague and redundant) we created God, as if he were a figment of our imaginations. If this is true, why would you argue with my imagination? Also, by your method of arguing, if we are not content with the only thing meaningful to us [God] we have to create something to "delude" ourselves [God]. So because we are discontent with God, whom we are content with, we must create God. That makes about as much sense as St. Augustine being a hippopotamus...
mattrodstrom
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7/5/2010 10:38:16 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 7/5/2010 10:28:08 PM, popculturepooka wrote:
At 7/5/2010 10:18:30 PM, mattrodstrom wrote:
At 7/5/2010 10:05:53 PM, Ayedewynn wrote:
Lucifer, or Satan, or the Devil is the King of this World. He is the king of earthly things

This is why Christians are Nihilists.

Everything, Real, which has meaning they deny and denigrate.

They Hate everything of this world and deny any meaning found in it... preferring to cling to "meaning" which doesn't exist.

This Is why Saint Augustine the Hippopotamus Abandoned his wife and children when he Fully converted.
Those WORLDLY things of Meaning, those "Lesser Goods" ARE sin. ALL that is meaningful to such people is GOD.

AND the only reason people come up with God is because they're not content with the Inherent Meaning wrapped up in Worldly Things. THEY reject it... and want something more so they delude themselves.

What is your definition of "worldy things"?

I'd say Augustine's "Lower Goods" suffice.

http://sparks.eserver.org...

Basically I'd say all actual things people tend to care about.

There's no reason to think Augustine and Plato's Ultimate Good exists at all... so... those "lower goods" are that which is Good... that which is meaningful.

they deny the meaning of such things... And believe there MUST be something of True meaning, of which these "lesser goods" are but poor reflections to which ought to be treated with disdain when you get the real thing.

They hate the world and come up with an imaginary "Pure" reality to try to live in. Silly Business.
"He who does not know how to put his will into things at least puts a meaning into them: that is, he believes there is a will in them already."

Metaphysics:
"The science.. which deals with the fundamental errors of mankind - but as if they were the fundamental truths."
mattrodstrom
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7/5/2010 10:39:05 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 7/5/2010 10:37:44 PM, Ayedewynn wrote:
Uh, I was not aware that St. Augustine was a hippopotamus...

8)
"He who does not know how to put his will into things at least puts a meaning into them: that is, he believes there is a will in them already."

Metaphysics:
"The science.. which deals with the fundamental errors of mankind - but as if they were the fundamental truths."
mattrodstrom
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7/5/2010 10:45:15 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 7/5/2010 10:34:03 PM, GeoLaureate8 wrote:
At 7/5/2010 10:18:30 PM, mattrodstrom wrote:
This is why Christians are Nihilists.

This is way off. Christians are the opposite of Nihilists. And it does not follow that they are Nihilists because they reject worldly things and everything that is real.

Look at Godsands and DATCMOTO... THE ENTIRE REASON they're christians is b/c they think they need Supernatural meaning...

They find the world meaningless in itself.

--- so they delude themselves.... Godsands calls it "being Positive"

Look to CN.. and his "create a religion to delude myself into thinking there's some meaning" thread

Many religious people are Nihilists... Meaning Deniers... who can't stand it and so cling to silliness like The Platonic Good/God

Btw, they do accept reality,
NOT Augustine...(or Plato).

but they add delusions to it.
"He who does not know how to put his will into things at least puts a meaning into them: that is, he believes there is a will in them already."

Metaphysics:
"The science.. which deals with the fundamental errors of mankind - but as if they were the fundamental truths."
annhasle
Posts: 6,657
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7/5/2010 10:45:35 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 7/5/2010 10:05:53 PM, Ayedewynn wrote:
I just saw this post on the forums and thought I might try my hand at offering an explanation. I hope that it proves suitable. I'll try to keep the personal beliefs to a minimum, though, obviously the answers to the questions ARE based upon my personal beliefs. I was just saying that I'm not going to try to convert you, if that is not what you want... Anyway, read on for the answers.

1) As for the first question, "Who could God be jealous of?"
God is "jealous", in a manner of speaking, of us, his creation. This simply means that he desires for us to love him, and to have a personal relationship with him.

2) As for the second question, "Why would God favor a certain people over another?"
The Israelites were God's Chosen People because they chose to follow him. They chose him as their God and personal savior. Because of this, he blessed them. Psalm 115:13 says that "He will bless them that fear the LORD, both great and small" (KJV)

3) As for the third question, "What stands between cross-denominational Christian cooperation?"
Well, as you said, all Christian denominations believe in the same God. However, this does not mean that they all believe he has the same characteristics. In fact, there are startlingly varying views about the characteristics of God. On the other hand, it is not to say that Christian denominations do not cooperate. Churches often participate in community and religious activities together, regardless of denomination.

4) As for the fourth question, this is harder. It was, "How could God create a hell in which he would punish and torture for eternity those who do not hold the required beliefs?"
Yes, God created Hell. Yes, it is his desire that we should follow him and grow closer to him. However, it is not his desire to punish us and torture us in hell. God loves all people more than you can imagine. God does not want to bring this pain and suffering upon us. However, when Lucifer rebelled against God, taking 1/3 of all of the angels in heaven with him, he thought he could become more powerful than God. Lucifer, or Satan, or the Devil is the King of this World. He is the king of earthly things, and all sin. If we do not follow God, we follow the King of this World, Satan. God has promised that, after he comes and takes his believers away, He will throw Satan, and all of his followers into the Lake of Fire where they will stay and suffer for eternity. This is because Satan believed that he could be more powerful than God, and he rebelled. Therefore, those that are followers of Satan, those that do not believe in God, will be thrown into Hell with him when the time comes. It is not that God will delight in torturing the "non-believers", it is that he has promised to "banish" those that opposed him, and he is going to keep his promise.

Sorry for the long post. I look forward to hearing responses or other further posts!

Well, first of all: thank you for "saying that I'm not going to try to convert you, if that is not what you want..." :D

Now onwards!

1) God is "jealous", in a manner of speaking, of us, his creation. This simply means that he desires for us to love him, and to have a personal relationship with him.

Now, if God created us and is what all proclaim him to be (omnipotent, omniscient, eternal, benevolent, etc), could he not have foreseen the appearance of other Gods or that some would not love Him? I wonder why he did not create us with non refutable proof of his existence so that all would love and believe in Him...

2) The Israelites were God's Chosen People because they chose to follow him. They chose him as their God and personal savior. Because of this, he blessed them. Psalm 115:13 says that "He will bless them that fear the LORD, both great and small" (KJV)

If God loves us all and his love is not discriminatory, the fact that they were the first to follow him seems... well, like God should acknowledge it but not call them the "Chosen" ones. It's like his love was first-come-first-served... Any believer should be apart of the "Chosen Ones" if what they say about God's love is true.

3) Well, as you said, all Christian denominations believe in the same God. However, this does not mean that they all believe he has the same characteristics. In fact, there are startlingly varying views about the characteristics of God. On the other hand, it is not to say that Christian denominations do not cooperate. Churches often participate in community and religious activities together, regardless of denomination.

I was raised in a Lutheran church and saw first hand the tension between the Lutheran and Catholic churches. Even between Presbyterian and Lutheran churches! I believe, and many others do too I think, that the fact that there are multiple Christian sects and hundreds of translations of the Holy Scripture, the Bible, diminishes the credibility of it all. Because you are left questioning where the quotes came from and then different sects can't communicate their beliefs because they have different ideals!
That seems counter-productive to the purpose of "spreading the word of the Lord"! They can't even agree on that word, so who's going to spread all thirty different versions? Are they going to have a competition who spread it the quickest and try to beat each other out? Because these differences between the denominations have led to massive wars so that might not be the safest plan....

4) Yes, God created Hell. Yes, it is his desire that we should follow him and grow closer to him. However, it is not his desire to punish us and torture us in hell. God loves all people more than you can imagine. God does not want to bring this pain and suffering upon us. However, when Lucifer rebelled against God, taking 1/3 of all of the angels in heaven with him, he thought he could become more powerful than God. Lucifer, or Satan, or the Devil is the King of this World. He is the king of earthly things, and all sin. If we do not follow God, we follow the King of this World, Satan. God has promised that, after he comes and takes his believers away, He will throw Satan, and all of his followers into the Lake of Fire where they will stay and suffer for eternity. This is because Satan believed that he could be more powerful than God, and he rebelled. Therefore, those that are followers of Satan, those that do not believe in God, will be thrown into Hell with him when the time comes. It is not that God will delight in torturing the "non-believers", it is that he has promised to "banish" those that opposed him, and he is going to keep his promise.

And the fact that he has promised such a thing, like to banish non-believers, speaks against the fact of him being "loving" right? Because of Satan's transgressions, all that do not believe in Him should automatically be punished exactly like him? For example, I do not believe in any God. Should I burn in Hell just like "Satan" did for bringing down a "1/3 of heaven and trying to overthrow God"? That seems a little overboard, don't you think?

I mean, really, if He wants me to believe in Him, he should beam me up to Heaven after I die and say, "Ha! I do exist, dumb@ss" and let me kick it with the angels. Then they can make jokes at my expense about my non-belief and I'll have to deal with the "shame" of doubting God for eternity. That seems worse...
I'm not back. This idiot just upset me which made me stop lurking.
mattrodstrom
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7/5/2010 10:47:01 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 7/5/2010 10:37:44 PM, Ayedewynn wrote:

You said SATAN was the KING of WORDLY things.

Including your precious ICE CREAM I assume???
"He who does not know how to put his will into things at least puts a meaning into them: that is, he believes there is a will in them already."

Metaphysics:
"The science.. which deals with the fundamental errors of mankind - but as if they were the fundamental truths."
mattrodstrom
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7/5/2010 10:47:36 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
also... Hippopotamus.

http://en.wikipedia.org...
"He who does not know how to put his will into things at least puts a meaning into them: that is, he believes there is a will in them already."

Metaphysics:
"The science.. which deals with the fundamental errors of mankind - but as if they were the fundamental truths."
Ayedewynn
Posts: 23
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7/5/2010 10:52:43 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
I wont quote you for the sake of space.

1) That is why Christianity is a Religion. In other words, it is a Faith. We must have faith in God. He trusts us with that.

2) You are right, God is not discriminatory. It may seem like "first-come-first-serve", but it is different. I guess it's hard to explain without sounding identical. But they were his original Chosen People and God watched over them. Like I said though, He still watches over all of his children.

3) I agree that that is the case, but it does not mean that some cooperation does exist. I guess I should just say that the world isn't perfect: there is going to be conflict.

4) Again, I am not an advocate for some of my friends' deaths by burning in hell, but who am I to question the intentions of the creator? =)
Ayedewynn
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7/5/2010 10:56:12 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 7/5/2010 10:47:01 PM, mattrodstrom wrote:
At 7/5/2010 10:37:44 PM, Ayedewynn wrote:

You said SATAN was the KING of WORDLY things.

Including your precious ICE CREAM I assume???

I said earthly, but... earthly, worldy...same thing
I also explained what I meant by earthly things, i.e. sin: Stealing, dishonesty, immorality.

Unless you steal ice cream, or lie about stealing it, or do immoral things with your ice cream, no it is not sin, and Satan is not the king of it.
GeoLaureate8
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7/5/2010 10:58:51 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 7/5/2010 10:56:12 PM, Ayedewynn wrote:
I said earthly, but... earthly, worldy...same thing
I also explained what I meant by earthly things, i.e. sin: Stealing, dishonesty, immorality.

Unless you steal ice cream, or lie about stealing it, or do immoral things with your ice cream, no it is not sin, and Satan is not the king of it.

You are equivocating "worldly" with "sin." Hell is not worldly, yet there is no sin. And what if you decide to steal a harp in Heaven? Does that make Heaven "worldly" too?
"We must raise the standard of the Old, free, decentralized, and strictly limited Republic."
-- Murray Rothbard

"The worst thing that can happen to a good cause is, not to be skillfully attacked, but to be ineptly defended."
-- Frederic Bastiat
mattrodstrom
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7/5/2010 11:01:13 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 7/5/2010 10:56:12 PM, Ayedewynn wrote:
At 7/5/2010 10:47:01 PM, mattrodstrom wrote:
At 7/5/2010 10:37:44 PM, Ayedewynn wrote:

You said SATAN was the KING of WORDLY things.

Including your precious ICE CREAM I assume???

I said earthly, but... earthly, worldy...same thing
I also explained what I meant by earthly things, i.e. sin: Stealing, dishonesty, immorality.

LOL... so why are you calling it WORLDLY???

why is WORLDLY a pejorative?

clearly you didn't really mean "Worldly" I apologize then for lumping you with the likes of Augustine... THOUGH you shouldn't say things you don't mean, It's confusing.

Augustine does mean to denigrate all "worldly" things. The attachments with and emotions to his wife and children were MUCH too impure... and Satany... to continue to embrace after his conversion....

SO he abandoned them to live a more pious, otherworldly, life.
"He who does not know how to put his will into things at least puts a meaning into them: that is, he believes there is a will in them already."

Metaphysics:
"The science.. which deals with the fundamental errors of mankind - but as if they were the fundamental truths."
Ayedewynn
Posts: 23
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7/5/2010 11:01:13 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 7/5/2010 10:58:51 PM, GeoLaureate8 wrote:
At 7/5/2010 10:56:12 PM, Ayedewynn wrote:
I said earthly, but... earthly, worldy...same thing
I also explained what I meant by earthly things, i.e. sin: Stealing, dishonesty, immorality.

Unless you steal ice cream, or lie about stealing it, or do immoral things with your ice cream, no it is not sin, and Satan is not the king of it.

You are equivocating "worldly" with "sin." Hell is not worldly, yet there is no sin. And what if you decide to steal a harp in Heaven? Does that make Heaven "worldly" too?

I did not equivocate "worldy" with "sin". In fact, for the third time now, I explained what I meant to convey by using the word "earthly": stealing, dishonesty, immorality, etc. Also, I do not believe that, in heaven, you would be morally compelled to steal a harp...
GeoLaureate8
Posts: 12,252
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7/5/2010 11:04:10 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 7/5/2010 11:01:13 PM, Ayedewynn wrote:
At 7/5/2010 10:58:51 PM, GeoLaureate8 wrote:
At 7/5/2010 10:56:12 PM, Ayedewynn wrote:
I said earthly, but... earthly, worldy...same thing
I also explained what I meant by earthly things, i.e. sin: Stealing, dishonesty, immorality.

Unless you steal ice cream, or lie about stealing it, or do immoral things with your ice cream, no it is not sin, and Satan is not the king of it.

You are equivocating "worldly" with "sin." Hell is not worldly, yet there is sin. And what if you decide to steal a harp in Heaven? Does that make Heaven "worldly" too?

I did not equivocate "worldy" with "sin". In fact, for the third time now, I explained what I meant to convey by using the word "earthly": stealing, dishonesty, immorality, etc. Also, I do not believe that, in heaven, you would be morally compelled to steal a harp...

"Earthly" or "wordly" who cares. It doesn't matter. How is sin earthly? And if Hell is full of sin, why isn't Hell "Earthly"?
"We must raise the standard of the Old, free, decentralized, and strictly limited Republic."
-- Murray Rothbard

"The worst thing that can happen to a good cause is, not to be skillfully attacked, but to be ineptly defended."
-- Frederic Bastiat
Ayedewynn
Posts: 23
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7/5/2010 11:04:43 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 7/5/2010 11:01:13 PM, mattrodstrom wrote:
At 7/5/2010 10:56:12 PM, Ayedewynn wrote:
At 7/5/2010 10:47:01 PM, mattrodstrom wrote:
At 7/5/2010 10:37:44 PM, Ayedewynn wrote:

You said SATAN was the KING of WORDLY things.

Including your precious ICE CREAM I assume???

I said earthly, but... earthly, worldy...same thing
I also explained what I meant by earthly things, i.e. sin: Stealing, dishonesty, immorality.


LOL... so why are you calling it WORLDLY???

why is WORLDLY a pejorative?

clearly you didn't really mean "Worldly" I apologize then for lumping you with the likes of Augustine... THOUGH you shouldn't say things you don't mean, It's confusing.

Augustine does mean to denigrate all "worldly" things. The attachments with and emotions to his wife and children were MUCH too impure... and Satany... to continue to embrace after his conversion....

SO he abandoned them to live a more pious, otherworldly, life.

AGAIN, the word I used was "earthly", but it doesn't matter

Also, I did NOT endorse Augustine and his beliefs, I merely commented about my not knowing of his being a hippopotamus.
mattrodstrom
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7/5/2010 11:06:24 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 7/5/2010 11:04:43 PM, Ayedewynn wrote:
Also, I did NOT endorse Augustine and his beliefs, I merely commented about my not knowing of his being a hippopotamus.

yeah... but your using Earthly as a pejorative is consistent with Augustine's Nihilism.
"He who does not know how to put his will into things at least puts a meaning into them: that is, he believes there is a will in them already."

Metaphysics:
"The science.. which deals with the fundamental errors of mankind - but as if they were the fundamental truths."
GeoLaureate8
Posts: 12,252
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7/5/2010 11:06:43 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 7/5/2010 11:06:09 PM, Ayedewynn wrote:
Sin is earthly because sin happens on the earth. Sin does not happen in heaven.

But sin happens in Hell, yet Hell is not Earthly.
"We must raise the standard of the Old, free, decentralized, and strictly limited Republic."
-- Murray Rothbard

"The worst thing that can happen to a good cause is, not to be skillfully attacked, but to be ineptly defended."
-- Frederic Bastiat
mattrodstrom
Posts: 12,028
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7/5/2010 11:07:36 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 7/5/2010 11:04:43 PM, Ayedewynn wrote:
I merely commented about my not knowing of his being a hippopotamus.

well... You know now!
"He who does not know how to put his will into things at least puts a meaning into them: that is, he believes there is a will in them already."

Metaphysics:
"The science.. which deals with the fundamental errors of mankind - but as if they were the fundamental truths."
Ayedewynn
Posts: 23
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7/5/2010 11:08:54 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
I feel attacked by both of you, lol. Firstly, I don't care about Augustine, or that one point in my argument two pages ago was consistent with his.

Secondly, you are using circular logic to assume that I mean that hell is earthly. I do not mean this.
GeoLaureate8
Posts: 12,252
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7/5/2010 11:10:24 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 7/5/2010 11:08:54 PM, Ayedewynn wrote:
Secondly, you are using circular logic to assume that I mean that hell is earthly. I do not mean this.

Not at all. You said sin is earthly. Yet sin is in Hell. If sin exists in the Hell realm, how is it earthly. Please answer directly and don't avoid the question.
"We must raise the standard of the Old, free, decentralized, and strictly limited Republic."
-- Murray Rothbard

"The worst thing that can happen to a good cause is, not to be skillfully attacked, but to be ineptly defended."
-- Frederic Bastiat