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Bible "plotholes"

debate_power
Posts: 726
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2/6/2015 4:08:09 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
1. Where is the rationale for God's decision to create everything? He did not have any need to create anything, because he had no need of anything.

2. Why is God infinite, and not the universe? Why does God exist, and not a universal time paradox?

3. Why do we humans really need to live here on Earth if heaven is so much better, and the faithful of us are going there anyway? Why are some excluded due to lack of belief? God has nothing to lose by not excluding us- and if he truly loved everyone I feel like he wouldn't leave any room for uncertainty of his existence. Why are there people who don't believe? Why are some people in remote parts of the world denied the chance of becoming religious?

4. Why would God wait so long to send Christ? Did he not love the people before Christ?

5. Why is the world imperfect? Does God derive pleasure from our suffering? Why did God let sin happen? Why would he need to even create us to derive pleasure in the first place?

6. Why would God leave such convincing evidence of the theory of evolution?

7. What was the point of the flood if God could have just magically fixed everything?

8. Why would God need to kill off Jesus Christ if God were omnipotent?

9. Why would God allow for other religions to spread their word?

10. What is the point of killing everything off only to replace it again?

11. Why does the God of the Old Testament differ so much from that of the New?

12. How do you expect me to fall for such a cheap scam?
You can call me Mark if you like.
Harikrish
Posts: 11,011
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2/6/2015 4:18:11 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 2/6/2015 4:08:09 PM, debate_power wrote:
1. Where is the rationale for God's decision to create everything? He did not have any need to create anything, because he had no need of anything.

2. Why is God infinite, and not the universe? Why does God exist, and not a universal time paradox?

3. Why do we humans really need to live here on Earth if heaven is so much better, and the faithful of us are going there anyway? Why are some excluded due to lack of belief? God has nothing to lose by not excluding us- and if he truly loved everyone I feel like he wouldn't leave any room for uncertainty of his existence. Why are there people who don't believe? Why are some people in remote parts of the world denied the chance of becoming religious?

4. Why would God wait so long to send Christ? Did he not love the people before Christ?

5. Why is the world imperfect? Does God derive pleasure from our suffering? Why did God let sin happen? Why would he need to even create us to derive pleasure in the first place?

6. Why would God leave such convincing evidence of the theory of evolution?

7. What was the point of the flood if God could have just magically fixed everything?

8. Why would God need to kill off Jesus Christ if God were omnipotent?

9. Why would God allow for other religions to spread their word?

10. What is the point of killing everything off only to replace it again?

11. Why does the God of the Old Testament differ so much from that of the New?

12. How do you expect me to fall for such a cheap scam?

The questions are too rational for the infinite objective wisdom of God.
debate_power
Posts: 726
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2/6/2015 4:21:27 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 2/6/2015 4:18:11 PM, Harikrish wrote:
At 2/6/2015 4:08:09 PM, debate_power wrote:
1. Where is the rationale for God's decision to create everything? He did not have any need to create anything, because he had no need of anything.

2. Why is God infinite, and not the universe? Why does God exist, and not a universal time paradox?

3. Why do we humans really need to live here on Earth if heaven is so much better, and the faithful of us are going there anyway? Why are some excluded due to lack of belief? God has nothing to lose by not excluding us- and if he truly loved everyone I feel like he wouldn't leave any room for uncertainty of his existence. Why are there people who don't believe? Why are some people in remote parts of the world denied the chance of becoming religious?

4. Why would God wait so long to send Christ? Did he not love the people before Christ?

5. Why is the world imperfect? Does God derive pleasure from our suffering? Why did God let sin happen? Why would he need to even create us to derive pleasure in the first place?

6. Why would God leave such convincing evidence of the theory of evolution?

7. What was the point of the flood if God could have just magically fixed everything?

8. Why would God need to kill off Jesus Christ if God were omnipotent?

9. Why would God allow for other religions to spread their word?

10. What is the point of killing everything off only to replace it again?

11. Why does the God of the Old Testament differ so much from that of the New?

12. How do you expect me to fall for such a cheap scam?

The questions are too rational for the infinite objective wisdom of God.

Youch. I must be more practical than God is. Or maybe just more loving.
You can call me Mark if you like.
debate_power
Posts: 726
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2/6/2015 4:31:44 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 2/6/2015 4:21:27 PM, debate_power wrote:
At 2/6/2015 4:18:11 PM, Harikrish wrote:
At 2/6/2015 4:08:09 PM, debate_power wrote:
1. Where is the rationale for God's decision to create everything? He did not have any need to create anything, because he had no need of anything.

2. Why is God infinite, and not the universe? Why does God exist, and not a universal time paradox?

3. Why do we humans really need to live here on Earth if heaven is so much better, and the faithful of us are going there anyway? Why are some excluded due to lack of belief? God has nothing to lose by not excluding us- and if he truly loved everyone I feel like he wouldn't leave any room for uncertainty of his existence. Why are there people who don't believe? Why are some people in remote parts of the world denied the chance of becoming religious?

4. Why would God wait so long to send Christ? Did he not love the people before Christ?

5. Why is the world imperfect? Does God derive pleasure from our suffering? Why did God let sin happen? Why would he need to even create us to derive pleasure in the first place?

6. Why would God leave such convincing evidence of the theory of evolution?

7. What was the point of the flood if God could have just magically fixed everything?

8. Why would God need to kill off Jesus Christ if God were omnipotent?

9. Why would God allow for other religions to spread their word?

10. What is the point of killing everything off only to replace it again?

11. Why does the God of the Old Testament differ so much from that of the New?

12. How do you expect me to fall for such a cheap scam?

The questions are too rational for the infinite objective wisdom of God.

Youch. I must be more practical than God is. Or maybe just more loving.

What you are saying is that an objectively rational being should not be questioned when behaving irrationally.
You can call me Mark if you like.
ChrisL
Posts: 136
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2/6/2015 10:05:48 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 2/6/2015 4:31:44 PM, debate_power wrote:
At 2/6/2015 4:21:27 PM, debate_power wrote:
At 2/6/2015 4:18:11 PM, Harikrish wrote:
At 2/6/2015 4:08:09 PM, debate_power wrote:
1. Where is the rationale for God's decision to create everything? He did not have any need to create anything, because he had no need of anything.

2. Why is God infinite, and not the universe? Why does God exist, and not a universal time paradox?

3. Why do we humans really need to live here on Earth if heaven is so much better, and the faithful of us are going there anyway? Why are some excluded due to lack of belief? God has nothing to lose by not excluding us- and if he truly loved everyone I feel like he wouldn't leave any room for uncertainty of his existence. Why are there people who don't believe? Why are some people in remote parts of the world denied the chance of becoming religious?

4. Why would God wait so long to send Christ? Did he not love the people before Christ?

5. Why is the world imperfect? Does God derive pleasure from our suffering? Why did God let sin happen? Why would he need to even create us to derive pleasure in the first place?

6. Why would God leave such convincing evidence of the theory of evolution?

7. What was the point of the flood if God could have just magically fixed everything?

8. Why would God need to kill off Jesus Christ if God were omnipotent?

9. Why would God allow for other religions to spread their word?

10. What is the point of killing everything off only to replace it again?

11. Why does the God of the Old Testament differ so much from that of the New?

12. How do you expect me to fall for such a cheap scam?

The questions are too rational for the infinite objective wisdom of God.

Youch. I must be more practical than God is. Or maybe just more loving.

What you are saying is that an objectively rational being should not be questioned when behaving irrationally.

All of your questions assume that God does not exist from the outset. You are trying to hold God to a standard of rationality that has no basis without him.
FaustianJustice
Posts: 6,238
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2/6/2015 10:20:27 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 2/6/2015 10:05:48 PM, ChrisL wrote:
At 2/6/2015 4:31:44 PM, debate_power wrote:
At 2/6/2015 4:21:27 PM, debate_power wrote:
At 2/6/2015 4:18:11 PM, Harikrish wrote:
At 2/6/2015 4:08:09 PM, debate_power wrote:
1. Where is the rationale for God's decision to create everything? He did not have any need to create anything, because he had no need of anything.

2. Why is God infinite, and not the universe? Why does God exist, and not a universal time paradox?

3. Why do we humans really need to live here on Earth if heaven is so much better, and the faithful of us are going there anyway? Why are some excluded due to lack of belief? God has nothing to lose by not excluding us- and if he truly loved everyone I feel like he wouldn't leave any room for uncertainty of his existence. Why are there people who don't believe? Why are some people in remote parts of the world denied the chance of becoming religious?

4. Why would God wait so long to send Christ? Did he not love the people before Christ?

5. Why is the world imperfect? Does God derive pleasure from our suffering? Why did God let sin happen? Why would he need to even create us to derive pleasure in the first place?

6. Why would God leave such convincing evidence of the theory of evolution?

7. What was the point of the flood if God could have just magically fixed everything?

8. Why would God need to kill off Jesus Christ if God were omnipotent?

9. Why would God allow for other religions to spread their word?

10. What is the point of killing everything off only to replace it again?

11. Why does the God of the Old Testament differ so much from that of the New?

12. How do you expect me to fall for such a cheap scam?

The questions are too rational for the infinite objective wisdom of God.

Youch. I must be more practical than God is. Or maybe just more loving.

What you are saying is that an objectively rational being should not be questioned when behaving irrationally.

All of your questions assume that God does not exist from the outset. You are trying to hold God to a standard of rationality that has no basis without him.

We call that basis 'reality'.
Here we have an advocate for Islamic arranged marriages demonstrating that children can consent to sex.
http://www.debate.org...
ChrisL
Posts: 136
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2/6/2015 10:27:22 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 2/6/2015 10:20:27 PM, FaustianJustice wrote:
At 2/6/2015 10:05:48 PM, ChrisL wrote:
At 2/6/2015 4:31:44 PM, debate_power wrote:
At 2/6/2015 4:21:27 PM, debate_power wrote:
At 2/6/2015 4:18:11 PM, Harikrish wrote:
At 2/6/2015 4:08:09 PM, debate_power wrote:
1. Where is the rationale for God's decision to create everything? He did not have any need to create anything, because he had no need of anything.

2. Why is God infinite, and not the universe? Why does God exist, and not a universal time paradox?

3. Why do we humans really need to live here on Earth if heaven is so much better, and the faithful of us are going there anyway? Why are some excluded due to lack of belief? God has nothing to lose by not excluding us- and if he truly loved everyone I feel like he wouldn't leave any room for uncertainty of his existence. Why are there people who don't believe? Why are some people in remote parts of the world denied the chance of becoming religious?

4. Why would God wait so long to send Christ? Did he not love the people before Christ?

5. Why is the world imperfect? Does God derive pleasure from our suffering? Why did God let sin happen? Why would he need to even create us to derive pleasure in the first place?

6. Why would God leave such convincing evidence of the theory of evolution?

7. What was the point of the flood if God could have just magically fixed everything?

8. Why would God need to kill off Jesus Christ if God were omnipotent?

9. Why would God allow for other religions to spread their word?

10. What is the point of killing everything off only to replace it again?

11. Why does the God of the Old Testament differ so much from that of the New?

12. How do you expect me to fall for such a cheap scam?

The questions are too rational for the infinite objective wisdom of God.

Youch. I must be more practical than God is. Or maybe just more loving.

What you are saying is that an objectively rational being should not be questioned when behaving irrationally.

All of your questions assume that God does not exist from the outset. You are trying to hold God to a standard of rationality that has no basis without him.

We call that basis 'reality'.

Interesting. How do you know what is real?
FaustianJustice
Posts: 6,238
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2/6/2015 10:29:42 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 2/6/2015 10:27:22 PM, ChrisL wrote:
At 2/6/2015 10:20:27 PM, FaustianJustice wrote:
At 2/6/2015 10:05:48 PM, ChrisL wrote:
At 2/6/2015 4:31:44 PM, debate_power wrote:
At 2/6/2015 4:21:27 PM, debate_power wrote:
At 2/6/2015 4:18:11 PM, Harikrish wrote:
At 2/6/2015 4:08:09 PM, debate_power wrote:
1. Where is the rationale for God's decision to create everything? He did not have any need to create anything, because he had no need of anything.

2. Why is God infinite, and not the universe? Why does God exist, and not a universal time paradox?

3. Why do we humans really need to live here on Earth if heaven is so much better, and the faithful of us are going there anyway? Why are some excluded due to lack of belief? God has nothing to lose by not excluding us- and if he truly loved everyone I feel like he wouldn't leave any room for uncertainty of his existence. Why are there people who don't believe? Why are some people in remote parts of the world denied the chance of becoming religious?

4. Why would God wait so long to send Christ? Did he not love the people before Christ?

5. Why is the world imperfect? Does God derive pleasure from our suffering? Why did God let sin happen? Why would he need to even create us to derive pleasure in the first place?

6. Why would God leave such convincing evidence of the theory of evolution?

7. What was the point of the flood if God could have just magically fixed everything?

8. Why would God need to kill off Jesus Christ if God were omnipotent?

9. Why would God allow for other religions to spread their word?

10. What is the point of killing everything off only to replace it again?

11. Why does the God of the Old Testament differ so much from that of the New?

12. How do you expect me to fall for such a cheap scam?

The questions are too rational for the infinite objective wisdom of God.

Youch. I must be more practical than God is. Or maybe just more loving.

What you are saying is that an objectively rational being should not be questioned when behaving irrationally.

All of your questions assume that God does not exist from the outset. You are trying to hold God to a standard of rationality that has no basis without him.

We call that basis 'reality'.

Interesting. How do you know what is real?

That which conforms to a basic set of repetable condition or reasonable explanation for behavior. That which can be tested, for validity. Though I smell a presupposition argument coming.
Here we have an advocate for Islamic arranged marriages demonstrating that children can consent to sex.
http://www.debate.org...
ChrisL
Posts: 136
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2/6/2015 10:34:31 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 2/6/2015 10:29:42 PM, FaustianJustice wrote:
At 2/6/2015 10:27:22 PM, ChrisL wrote:
At 2/6/2015 10:20:27 PM, FaustianJustice wrote:
At 2/6/2015 10:05:48 PM, ChrisL wrote:
At 2/6/2015 4:31:44 PM, debate_power wrote:
At 2/6/2015 4:21:27 PM, debate_power wrote:
At 2/6/2015 4:18:11 PM, Harikrish wrote:
At 2/6/2015 4:08:09 PM, debate_power wrote:
1. Where is the rationale for God's decision to create everything? He did not have any need to create anything, because he had no need of anything.

2. Why is God infinite, and not the universe? Why does God exist, and not a universal time paradox?

3. Why do we humans really need to live here on Earth if heaven is so much better, and the faithful of us are going there anyway? Why are some excluded due to lack of belief? God has nothing to lose by not excluding us- and if he truly loved everyone I feel like he wouldn't leave any room for uncertainty of his existence. Why are there people who don't believe? Why are some people in remote parts of the world denied the chance of becoming religious?

4. Why would God wait so long to send Christ? Did he not love the people before Christ?

5. Why is the world imperfect? Does God derive pleasure from our suffering? Why did God let sin happen? Why would he need to even create us to derive pleasure in the first place?

6. Why would God leave such convincing evidence of the theory of evolution?

7. What was the point of the flood if God could have just magically fixed everything?

8. Why would God need to kill off Jesus Christ if God were omnipotent?

9. Why would God allow for other religions to spread their word?

10. What is the point of killing everything off only to replace it again?

11. Why does the God of the Old Testament differ so much from that of the New?

12. How do you expect me to fall for such a cheap scam?

The questions are too rational for the infinite objective wisdom of God.

Youch. I must be more practical than God is. Or maybe just more loving.

What you are saying is that an objectively rational being should not be questioned when behaving irrationally.

All of your questions assume that God does not exist from the outset. You are trying to hold God to a standard of rationality that has no basis without him.

We call that basis 'reality'.

Interesting. How do you know what is real?

That which conforms to a basic set of repetable condition or reasonable explanation for behavior. That which can be tested, for validity. Though I smell a presupposition argument coming.

Lol. You betcha. We all have our presuppositions.

Lets go wit what you said. "That which can be tested or validity". Are you using your senses when you test for validity?
FaustianJustice
Posts: 6,238
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2/6/2015 10:40:32 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
1. Where is the rationale for God's decision to create everything? He did not have any need to create anything, because he had no need of anything.

2. Why is God infinite, and not the universe? Why does God exist, and not a universal time paradox?

3. Why do we humans really need to live here on Earth if heaven is so much better, and the faithful of us are going there anyway? Why are some excluded due to lack of belief? God has nothing to lose by not excluding us- and if he truly loved everyone I feel like he wouldn't leave any room for uncertainty of his existence. Why are there people who don't believe? Why are some people in remote parts of the world denied the chance of becoming religious?

4. Why would God wait so long to send Christ? Did he not love the people before Christ?

5. Why is the world imperfect? Does God derive pleasure from our suffering? Why did God let sin happen? Why would he need to even create us to derive pleasure in the first place?

6. Why would God leave such convincing evidence of the theory of evolution?

7. What was the point of the flood if God could have just magically fixed everything?

8. Why would God need to kill off Jesus Christ if God were omnipotent?

9. Why would God allow for other religions to spread their word?

10. What is the point of killing everything off only to replace it again?

11. Why does the God of the Old Testament differ so much from that of the New?

12. How do you expect me to fall for such a cheap scam?

The questions are too rational for the infinite objective wisdom of God.

Youch. I must be more practical than God is. Or maybe just more loving.

What you are saying is that an objectively rational being should not be questioned when behaving irrationally.

All of your questions assume that God does not exist from the outset. You are trying to hold God to a standard of rationality that has no basis without him.

We call that basis 'reality'.

Interesting. How do you know what is real?

That which conforms to a basic set of repetable condition or reasonable explanation for behavior. That which can be tested, for validity. Though I smell a presupposition argument coming.

Lol. You betcha. We all have our presuppositions.

Lets go wit what you said. "That which can be tested or validity". Are you using your senses when you test for validity?

Not any more. Such senses were developed and have already proven to working within expected parameters; 'testing' is not required. Were that not the case, you and I wouldn't be having this conversation.

----obvious rejoinder---

but how can you be sure of.... {ad infinitum}.

To cut this down: if you are going to ask 'how can you be sure...', or any other such similar questioning of validity/senses/reasoning, I am going to ask for what evidence you bring that such validity/senses/reasoning is incorrect, or faulty.
Here we have an advocate for Islamic arranged marriages demonstrating that children can consent to sex.
http://www.debate.org...
dsjpk5
Posts: 3,011
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2/6/2015 10:45:34 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 2/6/2015 4:08:09 PM, debate_power wrote:
1. Where is the rationale for God's decision to create everything? He did not have any need to create anything, because he had no need of anything.


He wanted something to love.

2. Why is God infinite, and not the universe? Why does God exist, and not a universal time paradox?

Because that's the way He is. One could easily ask why is the sky blue instead of red.

3. Why do we humans really need to live here on Earth if heaven is so much better, and the faithful of us are going there anyway? Why are some excluded due to lack of belief? God has nothing to lose by not excluding us- and if he truly loved everyone I feel like he wouldn't leave any room for uncertainty of his existence. Why are there people who don't believe? Why are some people in remote parts of the world denied the chance of becoming religious?

Because forcing someone to love you is not loving. People exclude themselves.. Because of free will. No one is denied.

4. Why would God wait so long to send Christ? Did he not love the people before Christ?

Who's schedule are you basing your question on?

5. Why is the world imperfect? Does God derive pleasure from our suffering? Why did God let sin happen? Why would he need to even create us to derive pleasure in the first place?

Because of the sin of our first parents. No. Because He loves us enough to allow us to choose. He didn't need anything


6. Why would God leave such convincing evidence of the theory of evolution?

Evolution is true and in no way in conflict with Christianity.

7. What was the point of the flood if God could have just magically fixed everything?

Fixing everything would negate free will, and therefore is not loving.

8. Why would God need to kill off Jesus Christ if God were omnipotent?


He didn't need to do anything.

9. Why would God allow for other religions to spread their word?

Free will is a good thing.

10. What is the point of killing everything off only to replace it again?

Life is a gift. We have no right to demand a certain amount.

11. Why does the God of the Old Testament differ so much from that of the New?
Please explain.

12. How do you expect me to fall for such a cheap scam?

What scam?
If that was the only issue, then vote moderation could be avoided more often, since a vote in which the voter does explain sufficiently how at least one point a debater made swung their vote, would be considered sufficient. -Airmax
ChrisL
Posts: 136
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2/6/2015 10:52:04 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 2/6/2015 10:40:32 PM, FaustianJustice wrote:
1. Where is the rationale for God's decision to create everything? He did not have any need to create anything, because he had no need of anything.

2. Why is God infinite, and not the universe? Why does God exist, and not a universal time paradox?

3. Why do we humans really need to live here on Earth if heaven is so much better, and the faithful of us are going there anyway? Why are some excluded due to lack of belief? God has nothing to lose by not excluding us- and if he truly loved everyone I feel like he wouldn't leave any room for uncertainty of his existence. Why are there people who don't believe? Why are some people in remote parts of the world denied the chance of becoming religious?

4. Why would God wait so long to send Christ? Did he not love the people before Christ?

5. Why is the world imperfect? Does God derive pleasure from our suffering? Why did God let sin happen? Why would he need to even create us to derive pleasure in the first place?

6. Why would God leave such convincing evidence of the theory of evolution?

7. What was the point of the flood if God could have just magically fixed everything?

8. Why would God need to kill off Jesus Christ if God were omnipotent?

9. Why would God allow for other religions to spread their word?

10. What is the point of killing everything off only to replace it again?

11. Why does the God of the Old Testament differ so much from that of the New?

12. How do you expect me to fall for such a cheap scam?

The questions are too rational for the infinite objective wisdom of God.

Youch. I must be more practical than God is. Or maybe just more loving.

What you are saying is that an objectively rational being should not be questioned when behaving irrationally.

All of your questions assume that God does not exist from the outset. You are trying to hold God to a standard of rationality that has no basis without him.

We call that basis 'reality'.

Interesting. How do you know what is real?

That which conforms to a basic set of repetable condition or reasonable explanation for behavior. That which can be tested, for validity. Though I smell a presupposition argument coming.

Lol. You betcha. We all have our presuppositions.

Lets go wit what you said. "That which can be tested or validity". Are you using your senses when you test for validity?

Not any more. Such senses were developed and have already proven to working within expected parameters; 'testing' is not required. Were that not the case, you and I wouldn't be having this conversation.


Well thats peculiar. So you are saying you don't need to use your senses to validate things? Pls explain...

----obvious rejoinder---

but how can you be sure of.... {ad infinitum}.

To cut this down: if you are going to ask 'how can you be sure...', or any other such similar questioning of validity/senses/reasoning, I am going to ask for what evidence you bring that such validity/senses/reasoning is incorrect, or faulty.

You obviously don't understand the argument. I am not saying that they are incorrect or faulty. What I am saying is that you are going use your senses to justify your senses which is viciously circular.
FaustianJustice
Posts: 6,238
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2/6/2015 10:53:55 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 2/6/2015 10:52:04 PM, ChrisL wrote:
At 2/6/2015 10:40:32 PM, FaustianJustice wrote:
1. Where is the rationale for God's decision to create everything? He did not have any need to create anything, because he had no need of anything.

2. Why is God infinite, and not the universe? Why does God exist, and not a universal time paradox?

3. Why do we humans really need to live here on Earth if heaven is so much better, and the faithful of us are going there anyway? Why are some excluded due to lack of belief? God has nothing to lose by not excluding us- and if he truly loved everyone I feel like he wouldn't leave any room for uncertainty of his existence. Why are there people who don't believe? Why are some people in remote parts of the world denied the chance of becoming religious?

4. Why would God wait so long to send Christ? Did he not love the people before Christ?

5. Why is the world imperfect? Does God derive pleasure from our suffering? Why did God let sin happen? Why would he need to even create us to derive pleasure in the first place?

6. Why would God leave such convincing evidence of the theory of evolution?

7. What was the point of the flood if God could have just magically fixed everything?

8. Why would God need to kill off Jesus Christ if God were omnipotent?

9. Why would God allow for other religions to spread their word?

10. What is the point of killing everything off only to replace it again?

11. Why does the God of the Old Testament differ so much from that of the New?

12. How do you expect me to fall for such a cheap scam?

The questions are too rational for the infinite objective wisdom of God.

Youch. I must be more practical than God is. Or maybe just more loving.

What you are saying is that an objectively rational being should not be questioned when behaving irrationally.

All of your questions assume that God does not exist from the outset. You are trying to hold God to a standard of rationality that has no basis without him.

We call that basis 'reality'.

Interesting. How do you know what is real?

That which conforms to a basic set of repetable condition or reasonable explanation for behavior. That which can be tested, for validity. Though I smell a presupposition argument coming.

Lol. You betcha. We all have our presuppositions.

Lets go wit what you said. "That which can be tested or validity". Are you using your senses when you test for validity?

Not any more. Such senses were developed and have already proven to working within expected parameters; 'testing' is not required. Were that not the case, you and I wouldn't be having this conversation.


Well thats peculiar. So you are saying you don't need to use your senses to validate things? Pls explain...

Sorry. Read that wrong. Yes, I do use my senses for such things.

----obvious rejoinder---

but how can you be sure of.... {ad infinitum}.

To cut this down: if you are going to ask 'how can you be sure...', or any other such similar questioning of validity/senses/reasoning, I am going to ask for what evidence you bring that such validity/senses/reasoning is incorrect, or faulty.

You obviously don't understand the argument. I am not saying that they are incorrect or faulty. What I am saying is that you are going use your senses to justify your senses which is viciously circular.

Do you have anything else by which anything can be justified? Your senses are going to have to be used, and you are going to have to believe them for the input you recieve...
Here we have an advocate for Islamic arranged marriages demonstrating that children can consent to sex.
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YassineB
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2/7/2015 12:06:02 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 2/6/2015 4:08:09 PM, debate_power wrote:

- I am not a Christian, so I'll answer the questions that are not Christianity related:

1. Where is the rationale for God's decision to create everything? He did not have any need to create anything, because he had no need of anything.

- If God is not obligated to create anything, then He is not obligated to not create anything as well. You argument is self-contradictory.

2. Why is God infinite, and not the universe? Why does God exist, and not a universal time paradox?

- God is necessary existent, & is Unique, & thus if the Universe is necessary existent, it is either God itself (which is mostly absurd), or existing from necessity, i.e. coexistent with God, though in different planes of existence.

3. Why do we humans really need to live here on Earth if heaven is so much better, and the faithful of us are going there anyway? Why are some excluded due to lack of belief? God has nothing to lose by not excluding us- and if he truly loved everyone I feel like he wouldn't leave any room for uncertainty of his existence. Why are there people who don't believe? Why are some people in remote parts of the world denied the chance of becoming religious?

4. Why would God wait so long to send Christ? Did he not love the people before Christ?

5. Why is the world imperfect? Does God derive pleasure from our suffering? Why did God let sin happen? Why would he need to even create us to derive pleasure in the first place?

6. Why would God leave such convincing evidence of the theory of evolution?

7. What was the point of the flood if God could have just magically fixed everything?

8. Why would God need to kill off Jesus Christ if God were omnipotent?

9. Why would God allow for other religions to spread their word?

10. What is the point of killing everything off only to replace it again?

11. Why does the God of the Old Testament differ so much from that of the New?

12. How do you expect me to fall for such a cheap scam?

- I think these arguments might weigh something against the Christian Doctrine, not against the Islamic Narrative though.
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Harikrish
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2/7/2015 12:14:11 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 2/6/2015 10:27:22 PM, ChrisL wrote:
At 2/6/2015 10:20:27 PM, FaustianJustice wrote:
At 2/6/2015 10:05:48 PM, ChrisL wrote:
At 2/6/2015 4:31:44 PM, debate_power wrote:
At 2/6/2015 4:21:27 PM, debate_power wrote:
At 2/6/2015 4:18:11 PM, Harikrish wrote:
At 2/6/2015 4:08:09 PM, debate_power wrote:
1. Where is the rationale for God's decision to create everything? He did not have any need to create anything, because he had no need of anything.

2. Why is God infinite, and not the universe? Why does God exist, and not a universal time paradox?

3. Why do we humans really need to live here on Earth if heaven is so much better, and the faithful of us are going there anyway? Why are some excluded due to lack of belief? God has nothing to lose by not excluding us- and if he truly loved everyone I feel like he wouldn't leave any room for uncertainty of his existence. Why are there people who don't believe? Why are some people in remote parts of the world denied the chance of becoming religious?

4. Why would God wait so long to send Christ? Did he not love the people before Christ?

5. Why is the world imperfect? Does God derive pleasure from our suffering? Why did God let sin happen? Why would he need to even create us to derive pleasure in the first place?

6. Why would God leave such convincing evidence of the theory of evolution?

7. What was the point of the flood if God could have just magically fixed everything?

8. Why would God need to kill off Jesus Christ if God were omnipotent?

9. Why would God allow for other religions to spread their word?

10. What is the point of killing everything off only to replace it again?

11. Why does the God of the Old Testament differ so much from that of the New?

12. How do you expect me to fall for such a cheap scam?

The questions are too rational for the infinite objective wisdom of God.

Youch. I must be more practical than God is. Or maybe just more loving.

What you are saying is that an objectively rational being should not be questioned when behaving irrationally.

All of your questions assume that God does not exist from the outset. You are trying to hold God to a standard of rationality that has no basis without him.

We call that basis 'reality'.

Interesting. How do you know what is real?

Atheists know God is not real because it does not exist outside the bible. Everything else does. And books of fiction are not real.
Mhykiel
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2/7/2015 1:51:59 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 2/6/2015 4:08:09 PM, debate_power wrote:
1. Where is the rationale for God's decision to create everything? He did not have any need to create anything, because he had no need of anything.


Because he wanted to.

2. Why is God infinite, and not the universe? Why does God exist, and not a universal time paradox?


I'm not sure what you mean by universal time paradox. but the universe is finite because contingent objects are finite by nature.

3. Why do we humans really need to live here on Earth if heaven is so much better, and the faithful of us are going there anyway?

The place for mankind has and will always be Earth. Even in Christianity where I think your conception of heaven comes from is that people will live and rule on earth. This hearkens back to Genesis.

Why are some excluded due to lack of belief?

Not just disbelieve. Even some believers won't be good enough.

God has nothing to lose by not excluding us- and if he truly loved everyone I feel like he wouldn't leave any room for uncertainty of his existence. Why are there people who don't believe?

You ever read about team mechanics? God want's to populate the world with people who want HIS (God's) WILL to be done. Can't do that with people who serve their own will or the influence of other masters.

Why are some people in remote parts of the world denied the chance of becoming religious?

They aren't. Again I think this is directed at a christian God and yet still the Bible does not say that people in a remote world cannot know God. It says they will be judged on what they DO or COULD know of God. And where would that get such knowledge? By the songs and meanders of all creation that speak of their creator.


4. Why would God wait so long to send Christ? Did he not love the people before Christ?

Christians take note from Romans and other scripture that state people before Christ are saved by their hope in and for god to provide a savior. Plus time is irrelevant to God. What is relevant to an everlasting God is "TIMING". There is a difference between amount of time and correct timing.


5. Why is the world imperfect?

If you're going to make post directed at the christian Bible and god maybe you should read it once. This is the easiest question to answer. the world is imperfect because it is fallen. Mankind has chosen to follow other masters than God.

Does God derive pleasure from our suffering?

no.

Why did God let sin happen?

Because you can't say someone is free to make their own decisions and to rule when your over their shoulders micro-managing every choice they make.

Why would he need to even create us to derive pleasure in the first place?

Now you're answering question 1. My take is that "pleasure" is not something that is needed. I mean you are right God could have made an army of teddy bears to make him happy. But God chose to make a living breathing thinking mind clothed in flesh to be happy, go figure some people like jazz and others chocolate icecream.


6. Why would God leave such convincing evidence of the theory of evolution?

Maybe because God designed evolution?


7. What was the point of the flood if God could have just magically fixed everything?

He did magically fix everything, it's called a flood. But on another note is I think you remove the agencies that derive power from a trickle down economy from God and therefore have an impact on creation and God (unlike human rulers) enforces and obeys the laws he sets so acting through creation is modus operandi.


8. Why would God need to kill off Jesus Christ if God were omnipotent?

Something must die to be reborn.


9. Why would God allow for other religions to spread their word?

It's pretty amazing what God allows people to do! I think I see a theme here. HEY Why doesn't God run the earth like a human day care center, wah wah wah, cry like a baby about it.


10. What is the point of killing everything off only to replace it again?

Nothing dies completely. From remains come to beginnings.


11. Why does the God of the Old Testament differ so much from that of the New?

Why are you so different with your girlfriend and your mother?


12. How do you expect me to fall for such a cheap scam?

The truth is not in human descriptors of reality. The truth is encapsulated from direct perception.
DanneJeRusse
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2/7/2015 10:46:45 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 2/7/2015 1:51:59 AM, Mhykiel wrote:
At 2/6/2015 4:08:09 PM, debate_power wrote:
1. Where is the rationale for God's decision to create everything? He did not have any need to create anything, because he had no need of anything.


Because he wanted to.

What? God told you that, personally? lol.

2. Why is God infinite, and not the universe? Why does God exist, and not a universal time paradox?


I'm not sure what you mean by universal time paradox. but the universe is finite because contingent objects are finite by nature.

That doesn't answer the question.

3. Why do we humans really need to live here on Earth if heaven is so much better, and the faithful of us are going there anyway?

The place for mankind has and will always be Earth. Even in Christianity where I think your conception of heaven comes from is that people will live and rule on earth. This hearkens back to Genesis.

Not true, the Earth will be destroyed when the Sun ability to fuse hydrogen expires.

Why are some excluded due to lack of belief?

Not just disbelieve. Even some believers won't be good enough.

You mean those who make up stuff as they go along, kinda like what you're doing?

God has nothing to lose by not excluding us- and if he truly loved everyone I feel like he wouldn't leave any room for uncertainty of his existence. Why are there people who don't believe?

You ever read about team mechanics? God want's to populate the world with people who want HIS (God's) WILL to be done. Can't do that with people who serve their own will or the influence of other masters.

That would be God's failure, then, if indeed, he created us.

Why are some people in remote parts of the world denied the chance of becoming religious?

They aren't. Again I think this is directed at a christian God and yet still the Bible does not say that people in a remote world cannot know God. It says they will be judged on what they DO or COULD know of God. And where would that get such knowledge? By the songs and meanders of all creation that speak of their creator.


4. Why would God wait so long to send Christ? Did he not love the people before Christ?

Christians take note from Romans and other scripture that state people before Christ are saved by their hope in and for god to provide a savior. Plus time is irrelevant to God. What is relevant to an everlasting God is "TIMING". There is a difference between amount of time and correct timing.

Again, did God tell you personally that information or did you just make it up?


5. Why is the world imperfect?

If you're going to make post directed at the christian Bible and god maybe you should read it once. This is the easiest question to answer. the world is imperfect because it is fallen. Mankind has chosen to follow other masters than God.

Again, that would be God's failure if He created us.

Does God derive pleasure from our suffering?

no.

Then, why does God cause suffering if He doesn't derive pleasure from it?

Why did God let sin happen?

Because you can't say someone is free to make their own decisions and to rule when your over their shoulders micro-managing every choice they make.

Did God tell you that personally or did you just make it up?

Why would he need to even create us to derive pleasure in the first place?

Now you're answering question 1. My take is that "pleasure" is not something that is needed. I mean you are right God could have made an army of teddy bears to make him happy. But God chose to make a living breathing thinking mind clothed in flesh to be happy, go figure some people like jazz and others chocolate icecream.

But, that doesn't answer the question of why God didn't make an army of happy teddy bears.


6. Why would God leave such convincing evidence of the theory of evolution?

Maybe because God designed evolution?

LOL. And yet, your holy book says nothing about evolution and everything about creationism. Have you not even read the Bible?


7. What was the point of the flood if God could have just magically fixed everything?

He did magically fix everything, it's called a flood.

So, genocide and mass murder fixes things according to your God? That is the kind of moral and ethical lessons you have learned? Your God is pure evil.

But on another note is I think you remove the agencies that derive power from a trickle down economy from God and therefore have an impact on creation and God (unlike human rulers) enforces and obeys the laws he sets so acting through creation is modus operandi.


8. Why would God need to kill off Jesus Christ if God were omnipotent?

Something must die to be reborn.

But, God is omnipotent, He can do anything He wants, you said so yourself.


9. Why would God allow for other religions to spread their word?

It's pretty amazing what God allows people to do! I think I see a theme here. HEY Why doesn't God run the earth like a human day care center, wah wah wah, cry like a baby about it.

God's followers have the intellect of kindergarten children fighting in a sandbox. Thanks for providing evidence for that.


10. What is the point of killing everything off only to replace it again?

Nothing dies completely. From remains come to beginnings.

That doesn't answer the question.


11. Why does the God of the Old Testament differ so much from that of the New?

Why are you so different with your girlfriend and your mother?

That doesn't answer the question. The God of the OT says and eye for an eye, yet the NT says to turn the other cheek.


12. How do you expect me to fall for such a cheap scam?

The truth is not in human descriptors of reality. The truth is encapsulated from direct perception.

Gibberish.
Marrying a 6 year old and waiting until she reaches puberty and maturity before having consensual sex is better than walking up to
a stranger in a bar and proceeding to have relations with no valid proof of the intent of the person. Muhammad wins. ~ Fatihah
If they don't want to be killed then they have to subdue to the Islamic laws. - Uncung
Without God, you are lower than sh!t. ~ SpiritandTruth
dhardage
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2/7/2015 10:55:58 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 2/6/2015 10:40:32 PM, FaustianJustice wrote:
1. Where is the rationale for God's decision to create everything? He did not have any need to create anything, because he had no need of anything.

2. Why is God infinite, and not the universe? Why does God exist, and not a universal time paradox?

3. Why do we humans really need to live here on Earth if heaven is so much better, and the faithful of us are going there anyway? Why are some excluded due to lack of belief? God has nothing to lose by not excluding us- and if he truly loved everyone I feel like he wouldn't leave any room for uncertainty of his existence. Why are there people who don't believe? Why are some people in remote parts of the world denied the chance of becoming religious?

4. Why would God wait so long to send Christ? Did he not love the people before Christ?

5. Why is the world imperfect? Does God derive pleasure from our suffering? Why did God let sin happen? Why would he need to even create us to derive pleasure in the first place?

6. Why would God leave such convincing evidence of the theory of evolution?

7. What was the point of the flood if God could have just magically fixed everything?

8. Why would God need to kill off Jesus Christ if God were omnipotent?

9. Why would God allow for other religions to spread their word?

10. What is the point of killing everything off only to replace it again?

11. Why does the God of the Old Testament differ so much from that of the New?

12. How do you expect me to fall for such a cheap scam?

The questions are too rational for the infinite objective wisdom of God.

Youch. I must be more practical than God is. Or maybe just more loving.

What you are saying is that an objectively rational being should not be questioned when behaving irrationally.

All of your questions assume that God does not exist from the outset. You are trying to hold God to a standard of rationality that has no basis without him.

We call that basis 'reality'.

Interesting. How do you know what is real?

That which conforms to a basic set of repetable condition or reasonable explanation for behavior. That which can be tested, for validity. Though I smell a presupposition argument coming.

Lol. You betcha. We all have our presuppositions.

Lets go wit what you said. "That which can be tested or validity". Are you using your senses when you test for validity?

Not any more. Such senses were developed and have already proven to working within expected parameters; 'testing' is not required. Were that not the case, you and I wouldn't be having this conversation.

----obvious rejoinder---

but how can you be sure of.... {ad infinitum}.

To cut this down: if you are going to ask 'how can you be sure...', or any other such similar questioning of validity/senses/reasoning, I am going to ask for what evidence you bring that such validity/senses/reasoning is incorrect, or faulty.

I think she's either related to scmike or scmike in disguise.
debate_power
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2/7/2015 11:18:39 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 2/7/2015 1:51:59 AM, Mhykiel wrote:
At 2/6/2015 4:08:09 PM, debate_power wrote:
1. Where is the rationale for God's decision to create everything? He did not have any need to create anything, because he had no need of anything.


Because he wanted to.

Why did he want to? I asked for his rationale.

2. Why is God infinite, and not the universe? Why does God exist, and not a universal time paradox?


I'm not sure what you mean by universal time paradox. but the universe is finite because contingent objects are finite by nature.

The existence of a universal time paradox would mean that the universe would have no beginning and no end in time, much like you would claim God does. Why couldn't the universe just have no beginning and end in time? There wouldn't be a need for an-powerful being to create it. God has no end or beginning in time, doesn't he? Why would He necessarily have to be the paradox, and not just the universe He created?

3. Why do we humans really need to live here on Earth if heaven is so much better, and the faithful of us are going there anyway?

The place for mankind has and will always be Earth. Even in Christianity where I think your conception of heaven comes from is that people will live and rule on earth. This hearkens back to Genesis.

"Mankind" is of a certain species. All I would need to do to disprove your first statement would be to show a planet on which other men, of the same species as Earthmen, reside. You never explained what the reason for humans having to live on imperfect Earth is. If God really loved us, and if Heaven is so much better, why would we need to be here? God does not need us on Earth to fulfill any purpose other than having humans on Earth. From a practical standpoint, life on Heaven should have been granted to all humans from the beginning. Impractical things are impractical.

Why are some excluded due to lack of belief?

Not just disbelieve. Even some believers won't be good enough.

Can you confess your sins to something you don't believe in? Can you ask something you don't believe in for something else you don't believe in? The biggest point here is that you have to believe in God to be saved. That's one of the three requirements for salvation, supposedly.

God has nothing to lose by not excluding us- and if he truly loved everyone I feel like he wouldn't leave any room for uncertainty of his existence. Why are there people who don't believe?

You ever read about team mechanics? God want's to populate the world with people who want HIS (God's) WILL to be done. Can't do that with people who serve their own will or the influence of other masters.

His will could have been done more easily if he had just forced those people who don't believe to believe. God is supposedly omnipotent.

Why are some people in remote parts of the world denied the chance of becoming religious?

They aren't. Again I think this is directed at a christian God and yet still the Bible does not say that people in a remote world cannot know God. It says they will be judged on what they DO or COULD know of God. And where would that get such knowledge? By the songs and meanders of all creation that speak of their creator.

Songs and meanders of creation? The songs and meanders of creation only suggest to me evolution and all other existing scientific evidence. To assume the existence of any God based on current scientific knowledge is to make an extraneous, unproven assumption. I could just as easily see lights in the sky, assume the existence of alien explorers, and have just as much evidence for aliens as you do for God. It does not seem fair to me that people who are never in circumstances exposing them to the Bible should be denied Heaven. I reiterate to you that the God being described in the Bible is a specific God. A belief in any other deity wouldn't count as a belief in the Christian God.


4. Why would God wait so long to send Christ? Did he not love the people before Christ?

Christians take note from Romans and other scripture that state people before Christ are saved by their hope in and for god to provide a savior. Plus time is irrelevant to God. What is relevant to an everlasting God is "TIMING". There is a difference between amount of time and correct timing.

I agree with you that given the premise God exists, time is irrelevant to him. I don't see why timing would be either, given that God is an omnipotent and omniscient being. If God wanted to give everyone at all time the chance to be saved, why would he wait at all to send Jesus? I reiterate to you the three prerequisites of salvation:

1. Belief that Christ was God's son and that he died for our salvation
2. Confession of sin
3. Asking for God's forgiveness

As there is nothing in the Old Testament that implies the dying of God's son for human sin, God was being unfair to the people who only had the chance to read the Old Testament.


5. Why is the world imperfect?

If you're going to make post directed at the christian Bible and god maybe you should read it once. This is the easiest question to answer. the world is imperfect because it is fallen. Mankind has chosen to follow other masters than God.

Why would God give humanity the chance? Who created Satan? Couldn't have been humans, since they chose to follow him. God knew it would happen that way if he created Satan; why'd he create Satan if Satan leads humanity astray? What is the practical reason for the imperfection?

Does God derive pleasure from our suffering?

Okay. I have to assume he's not a sadist, then, as I originally thought, and just irrational.

Why did God let sin happen?

Because you can't say someone is free to make their own decisions and to rule when your over their shoulders micro-managing every choice they make.

If God loved us, why would he give us the chance to do bad things to each other? A perfect world would be more practical. You could make the world perfect and give everyone free will if you could do anything.

Why would he need to even create us to derive pleasure in the first place?

Now you're answering question 1. My take is that "pleasure" is not something that is needed. I mean you are right God could have made an army of teddy bears to make him happy. But God chose to make a living breathing thinking mind clothed in flesh to be happy, go figure some people like jazz and others chocolate icecream.

Okay.


6. Why would God leave such convincing evidence of the theory of evolution?

Maybe because God designed evolution?

Okay, so why would He only give us conclusive evidence of evolution, and not of Him?
You can call me Mark if you like.
debate_power
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2/7/2015 11:30:33 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
7. What was the point of the flood if God could have just magically fixed everything?

He did magically fix everything, it's called a flood. But on another note is I think you remove the agencies that derive power from a trickle down economy from God and therefore have an impact on creation and God (unlike human rulers) enforces and obeys the laws he sets so acting through creation is modus operandi.

Sorry for being unclear. I meant, why would God need to destroy things if he could have just changed the way they worked? The flood by itself did not fix; it destroyed.

8. Why would God need to kill off Jesus Christ if God were omnipotent?

Something must die to be reborn.

But why couldn't he just pardon humans without the death of his one, only son? He caused his son considerable strife there at the end.

9. Why would God allow for other religions to spread their word?

It's pretty amazing what God allows people to do! I think I see a theme here. HEY Why doesn't God run the earth like a human day care center, wah wah wah, cry like a baby about it.

Sorry, man. Blame me for not thinking about myself. If God were truly thinking about my interests, wouldn't he cater to my needs of evidence for him?

Yeah, God allows people to contract diseases, kill each other, rape each other, get their possessions stolen from them, die without going to heaven, etc., etc. Pretty amazing stuff, there.

From a purely practical sense, God wouldn't allow other religions to contradict him. The Christian believer is encouraged to "spread the word of God". Shame God can't get off of his omnipotent a55 to help with that.

Heaven is the ultimate divine daycare, besides.

10. What is the point of killing everything off only to replace it again?

Nothing dies completely. From remains come to beginnings.

He killed off a bunch of animals, plants, etc. and allowed them to repopulate. What the heck was the point when he could have just made everything revert back to the way it was in the Garden of Eden?

11. Why does the God of the Old Testament differ so much from that of the New?

Why are you so different with your girlfriend and your mother?

You evaded the question, and assumed I had a girlfriend and a mother. What if I'm gay?

12. How do you expect me to fall for such a cheap scam?

The truth is not in human descriptors of reality. The truth is encapsulated from direct perception.

Someone asking for me to believe in something based on a false premise is a scam. I believe that who the Christian describes to me as God is God as much as I do that the guy on the phone is an actual Nigerian prince. False premises are logical fallacies.
You can call me Mark if you like.
debate_power
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2/7/2015 11:31:20 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
7. What was the point of the flood if God could have just magically fixed everything?

He did magically fix everything, it's called a flood. But on another note is I think you remove the agencies that derive power from a trickle down economy from God and therefore have an impact on creation and God (unlike human rulers) enforces and obeys the laws he sets so acting through creation is modus operandi.

Sorry for being unclear. I meant, why would God need to destroy things if he could have just changed the way they worked? The flood by itself did not fix; it destroyed.

8. Why would God need to kill off Jesus Christ if God were omnipotent?

Something must die to be reborn.

But why couldn't he just pardon humans without the death of his one, only son? He caused his son considerable strife there at the end.

9. Why would God allow for other religions to spread their word?

It's pretty amazing what God allows people to do! I think I see a theme here. HEY Why doesn't God run the earth like a human day care center, wah wah wah, cry like a baby about it.

Sorry, man. Blame me for not thinking about myself. If God were truly thinking about my interests, wouldn't he cater to my needs of evidence for him?

Yeah, God allows people to contract diseases, kill each other, rape each other, get their possessions stolen from them, die without going to heaven, etc., etc. Pretty amazing stuff, there.

From a purely practical sense, God wouldn't allow other religions to contradict him. The Christian believer is encouraged to "spread the word of God". Shame God can't get off of his omnipotent a55 to help with that.

Heaven is the ultimate divine daycare, besides.

10. What is the point of killing everything off only to replace it again?

Nothing dies completely. From remains come to beginnings.

He killed off a bunch of animals, plants, etc. and allowed them to repopulate. What the heck was the point when he could have just made everything revert back to the way it was in the Garden of Eden?

11. Why does the God of the Old Testament differ so much from that of the New?

Why are you so different with your girlfriend and your mother?

You evaded the question, and assumed I had a girlfriend and a mother. What if I'm gay?

12. How do you expect me to fall for such a cheap scam?

The truth is not in human descriptors of reality. The truth is encapsulated from direct perception.

Someone asking for me to believe in something based on a false premise is a scam. I believe that who the Christian describes to me as God is God as much as I do that the guy on the phone is an actual Nigerian prince. False premises are logical fallacies.

Do you see what I mean by plotholes?
You can call me Mark if you like.
bornofgod
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2/7/2015 11:31:22 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 2/6/2015 4:08:09 PM, debate_power wrote:
1. Where is the rationale for God's decision to create everything? He did not have any need to create anything, because he had no need of anything.

You're absolutely correct. God did not have to create anything. He did it because He could.

2. Why is God infinite, and not the universe? Why does God exist, and not a universal time paradox?

Since He created us as invisible vibrations that He uses to form illusions, His creation can go on forever. God's people actually believe this virtual reality we're experiencing is real.

3. Why do we humans really need to live here on Earth if heaven is so much better, and the faithful of us are going there anyway? Why are some excluded due to lack of belief? God has nothing to lose by not excluding us- and if he truly loved everyone I feel like he wouldn't leave any room for uncertainty of his existence. Why are there people who don't believe? Why are some people in remote parts of the world denied the chance of becoming religious?


God's people do not realize we're living in God's dream and a world that isn't real at all.

4. Why would God wait so long to send Christ? Did he not love the people before Christ?

God's plan was to use illusions ( flesh ) called prophets and saints to testify to His creation and learn who we are in Him during the first part of His dream. Since we're His creation and formed illusions, of course He loves it. Wouldn't you love something you created?

5. Why is the world imperfect? Does God derive pleasure from our suffering? Why did God let sin happen? Why would he need to even create us to derive pleasure in the first place?


God made His illusions so perfectly that His people could observe imperfections that made them believe that no Creator would make imperfections such as gays, disease, earthquakes, storms. abortions, wars, thousands of religions, atheists, bodies without limbs, mental illness, CEO's that steal money from the poor, etc.

6. Why would God leave such convincing evidence of the theory of evolution?

God left His people with all sorts of crazy ideas for man to ponder. But He did tell us saints exactly why He did so.

7. What was the point of the flood if God could have just magically fixed everything?


The flood set up the age ending destruction that's coming soon that will destroy everything we observe in this make-believe world we're experiencing now. After this age ends, God's new dream ( New Heaven and Earth ) will be much different for His people to experience life in. We won't know death, decay, destruction, disease, marriage, divorce, killing, wars, ethnic groups, religion, science, various languages, etc. in Paradise.

8. Why would God need to kill off Jesus Christ if God were omnipotent?

Once God was finished using us saints and prophets who testify to His Word ( knowledge ), He has us all killed by antichrists and false prophets who believe this world is real and can't comprehend the information that us saints talk about. The antichrists ( mostly religious people ) hate the Truth that they're all going to be destroyed by the end of this age. Jesus was a saint who spoke from Christ, which is just another name for God's knowledge that we learn about in our testimonies.

9. Why would God allow for other religions to spread their word?

To get His people to compete in building false gods and totally confuse them by making this world appear more real to them. God won't be using religion, science or any other illusions like that to keep His people convinced that this world and their bodies are real. We will all know that we're nothing but His characters within His dream when we awaken in the New Earth called Paradise.

10. What is the point of killing everything off only to replace it again?

This part of the dream was only meant to teach us saints that we were created as characters in His thoughts converted to invisible vibrations. From these vibrations, He formed illusions according to His plan called Eternal Life. Eternal Life is a program with two parts. The firs part He used to teach us who we are in Him and the second part of the program we will wake up in new bodies and learn exactly who we are in Him. We will learn that we're nothing but characters in His visions and dreams that He planned for us to experience.

11. Why does the God of the Old Testament differ so much from that of the New?

God planned, created and formed this world to keep His people confused while using His prophets and saints to teach us who we are in Him. The prophets were used to write prophecies about the future. We saints are used by God to testify to His knowledge and from that knowledge, we learn what all the prophecies are about. The prophecies are about God revealing Himself and His plan to us. His plan was to teach us who we are in His dream during this first age. The prophets didn't get to learn about the future before they were killed off in God's dream. Only us saints learned God's plan and understand that we're not real.

12. How do you expect me to fall for such a cheap scam?

God is the Creator of everything, including His people called prophets, saints, false prophets, antichrists, atheists and totally ignorant people. I would say you're in the category of an atheist but it's possible you're one of His chosen believers. Up to this point, you believed that Christians were lying about a Creator who created everything. They weren't lying about the fact that a Creator exists but they weren't taught anything else so they believed in all the false gospels that the Vatican boys conjured up to keep God's people in confusion. This was all planned by our Creator, of course.
debate_power
Posts: 726
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2/7/2015 11:34:51 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 2/6/2015 10:05:48 PM, ChrisL wrote:
At 2/6/2015 4:31:44 PM, debate_power wrote:
At 2/6/2015 4:21:27 PM, debate_power wrote:
At 2/6/2015 4:18:11 PM, Harikrish wrote:
At 2/6/2015 4:08:09 PM, debate_power wrote:
1. Where is the rationale for God's decision to create everything? He did not have any need to create anything, because he had no need of anything.

2. Why is God infinite, and not the universe? Why does God exist, and not a universal time paradox?

3. Why do we humans really need to live here on Earth if heaven is so much better, and the faithful of us are going there anyway? Why are some excluded due to lack of belief? God has nothing to lose by not excluding us- and if he truly loved everyone I feel like he wouldn't leave any room for uncertainty of his existence. Why are there people who don't believe? Why are some people in remote parts of the world denied the chance of becoming religious?

4. Why would God wait so long to send Christ? Did he not love the people before Christ?

5. Why is the world imperfect? Does God derive pleasure from our suffering? Why did God let sin happen? Why would he need to even create us to derive pleasure in the first place?

6. Why would God leave such convincing evidence of the theory of evolution?

7. What was the point of the flood if God could have just magically fixed everything?

8. Why would God need to kill off Jesus Christ if God were omnipotent?

9. Why would God allow for other religions to spread their word?

10. What is the point of killing everything off only to replace it again?

11. Why does the God of the Old Testament differ so much from that of the New?

12. How do you expect me to fall for such a cheap scam?

The questions are too rational for the infinite objective wisdom of God.

Youch. I must be more practical than God is. Or maybe just more loving.

What you are saying is that an objectively rational being should not be questioned when behaving irrationally.

All of your questions assume that God does not exist from the outset. You are trying to hold God to a standard of rationality that has no basis without him.

So you're just saying that I should lap up whatever I hear from God whether I think it is crazy or not. God doesn't tell me why exactly his actions are rational, and because the "evidence" makes him look irrational to me, I have the logical inclination to discredit the rationality of his actions.
You can call me Mark if you like.
debate_power
Posts: 726
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2/7/2015 11:35:37 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 2/6/2015 10:20:27 PM, FaustianJustice wrote:
At 2/6/2015 10:05:48 PM, ChrisL wrote:
At 2/6/2015 4:31:44 PM, debate_power wrote:
At 2/6/2015 4:21:27 PM, debate_power wrote:
At 2/6/2015 4:18:11 PM, Harikrish wrote:
At 2/6/2015 4:08:09 PM, debate_power wrote:
1. Where is the rationale for God's decision to create everything? He did not have any need to create anything, because he had no need of anything.

2. Why is God infinite, and not the universe? Why does God exist, and not a universal time paradox?

3. Why do we humans really need to live here on Earth if heaven is so much better, and the faithful of us are going there anyway? Why are some excluded due to lack of belief? God has nothing to lose by not excluding us- and if he truly loved everyone I feel like he wouldn't leave any room for uncertainty of his existence. Why are there people who don't believe? Why are some people in remote parts of the world denied the chance of becoming religious?

4. Why would God wait so long to send Christ? Did he not love the people before Christ?

5. Why is the world imperfect? Does God derive pleasure from our suffering? Why did God let sin happen? Why would he need to even create us to derive pleasure in the first place?

6. Why would God leave such convincing evidence of the theory of evolution?

7. What was the point of the flood if God could have just magically fixed everything?

8. Why would God need to kill off Jesus Christ if God were omnipotent?

9. Why would God allow for other religions to spread their word?

10. What is the point of killing everything off only to replace it again?

11. Why does the God of the Old Testament differ so much from that of the New?

12. How do you expect me to fall for such a cheap scam?

The questions are too rational for the infinite objective wisdom of God.

Youch. I must be more practical than God is. Or maybe just more loving.

What you are saying is that an objectively rational being should not be questioned when behaving irrationally.

All of your questions assume that God does not exist from the outset. You are trying to hold God to a standard of rationality that has no basis without him.

We call that basis 'reality'.

Are you referring to me?
You can call me Mark if you like.
FaustianJustice
Posts: 6,238
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2/7/2015 11:35:55 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 2/7/2015 10:55:58 AM, dhardage wrote:
At 2/6/2015 10:40:32 PM, FaustianJustice wrote:
1. Where is the rationale for God's decision to create everything? He did not have any need to create anything, because he had no need of anything.

2. Why is God infinite, and not the universe? Why does God exist, and not a universal time paradox?

3. Why do we humans really need to live here on Earth if heaven is so much better, and the faithful of us are going there anyway? Why are some excluded due to lack of belief? God has nothing to lose by not excluding us- and if he truly loved everyone I feel like he wouldn't leave any room for uncertainty of his existence. Why are there people who don't believe? Why are some people in remote parts of the world denied the chance of becoming religious?

4. Why would God wait so long to send Christ? Did he not love the people before Christ?

5. Why is the world imperfect? Does God derive pleasure from our suffering? Why did God let sin happen? Why would he need to even create us to derive pleasure in the first place?

6. Why would God leave such convincing evidence of the theory of evolution?

7. What was the point of the flood if God could have just magically fixed everything?

8. Why would God need to kill off Jesus Christ if God were omnipotent?

9. Why would God allow for other religions to spread their word?

10. What is the point of killing everything off only to replace it again?

11. Why does the God of the Old Testament differ so much from that of the New?

12. How do you expect me to fall for such a cheap scam?

The questions are too rational for the infinite objective wisdom of God.

Youch. I must be more practical than God is. Or maybe just more loving.

What you are saying is that an objectively rational being should not be questioned when behaving irrationally.

All of your questions assume that God does not exist from the outset. You are trying to hold God to a standard of rationality that has no basis without him.

We call that basis 'reality'.

Interesting. How do you know what is real?

That which conforms to a basic set of repetable condition or reasonable explanation for behavior. That which can be tested, for validity. Though I smell a presupposition argument coming.

Lol. You betcha. We all have our presuppositions.

Lets go wit what you said. "That which can be tested or validity". Are you using your senses when you test for validity?

Not any more. Such senses were developed and have already proven to working within expected parameters; 'testing' is not required. Were that not the case, you and I wouldn't be having this conversation.

----obvious rejoinder---

but how can you be sure of.... {ad infinitum}.

To cut this down: if you are going to ask 'how can you be sure...', or any other such similar questioning of validity/senses/reasoning, I am going to ask for what evidence you bring that such validity/senses/reasoning is incorrect, or faulty.

I think she's either related to scmike or scmike in disguise.

Its not an original argument. Time will soon tell if they repeat each other, or if they use the same source material or blunder down the same path. Similar as it may be, lets honor the spirit of a newcomer. In Scmike's favor, he/she did nothing worth banning. There is no benefit in adopting a new persona while abandoning the previous.
Here we have an advocate for Islamic arranged marriages demonstrating that children can consent to sex.
http://www.debate.org...
debate_power
Posts: 726
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2/7/2015 11:36:47 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 2/6/2015 10:29:42 PM, FaustianJustice wrote:
At 2/6/2015 10:27:22 PM, ChrisL wrote:
At 2/6/2015 10:20:27 PM, FaustianJustice wrote:
At 2/6/2015 10:05:48 PM, ChrisL wrote:
At 2/6/2015 4:31:44 PM, debate_power wrote:
At 2/6/2015 4:21:27 PM, debate_power wrote:
At 2/6/2015 4:18:11 PM, Harikrish wrote:
At 2/6/2015 4:08:09 PM, debate_power wrote:
1. Where is the rationale for God's decision to create everything? He did not have any need to create anything, because he had no need of anything.

2. Why is God infinite, and not the universe? Why does God exist, and not a universal time paradox?

3. Why do we humans really need to live here on Earth if heaven is so much better, and the faithful of us are going there anyway? Why are some excluded due to lack of belief? God has nothing to lose by not excluding us- and if he truly loved everyone I feel like he wouldn't leave any room for uncertainty of his existence. Why are there people who don't believe? Why are some people in remote parts of the world denied the chance of becoming religious?

4. Why would God wait so long to send Christ? Did he not love the people before Christ?

5. Why is the world imperfect? Does God derive pleasure from our suffering? Why did God let sin happen? Why would he need to even create us to derive pleasure in the first place?

6. Why would God leave such convincing evidence of the theory of evolution?

7. What was the point of the flood if God could have just magically fixed everything?

8. Why would God need to kill off Jesus Christ if God were omnipotent?

9. Why would God allow for other religions to spread their word?

10. What is the point of killing everything off only to replace it again?

11. Why does the God of the Old Testament differ so much from that of the New?

12. How do you expect me to fall for such a cheap scam?

The questions are too rational for the infinite objective wisdom of God.

Youch. I must be more practical than God is. Or maybe just more loving.

What you are saying is that an objectively rational being should not be questioned when behaving irrationally.

All of your questions assume that God does not exist from the outset. You are trying to hold God to a standard of rationality that has no basis without him.

We call that basis 'reality'.

Interesting. How do you know what is real?

That which conforms to a basic set of repetable condition or reasonable explanation for behavior. That which can be tested, for validity. Though I smell a presupposition argument coming.

Yes, they all have self-confirming arguments. It's all they can muster up without fulfilling their burden of proof.
You can call me Mark if you like.
dhardage
Posts: 4,545
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2/7/2015 11:38:16 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 2/7/2015 11:35:55 AM, FaustianJustice wrote:
At 2/7/2015 10:55:58 AM, dhardage wrote:
At 2/6/2015 10:40:32 PM, FaustianJustice wrote:
1. Where is the rationale for God's decision to create everything? He did not have any need to create anything, because he had no need of anything.

2. Why is God infinite, and not the universe? Why does God exist, and not a universal time paradox?

3. Why do we humans really need to live here on Earth if heaven is so much better, and the faithful of us are going there anyway? Why are some excluded due to lack of belief? God has nothing to lose by not excluding us- and if he truly loved everyone I feel like he wouldn't leave any room for uncertainty of his existence. Why are there people who don't believe? Why are some people in remote parts of the world denied the chance of becoming religious?

4. Why would God wait so long to send Christ? Did he not love the people before Christ?

5. Why is the world imperfect? Does God derive pleasure from our suffering? Why did God let sin happen? Why would he need to even create us to derive pleasure in the first place?

6. Why would God leave such convincing evidence of the theory of evolution?

7. What was the point of the flood if God could have just magically fixed everything?

8. Why would God need to kill off Jesus Christ if God were omnipotent?

9. Why would God allow for other religions to spread their word?

10. What is the point of killing everything off only to replace it again?

11. Why does the God of the Old Testament differ so much from that of the New?

12. How do you expect me to fall for such a cheap scam?

The questions are too rational for the infinite objective wisdom of God.

Youch. I must be more practical than God is. Or maybe just more loving.

What you are saying is that an objectively rational being should not be questioned when behaving irrationally.

All of your questions assume that God does not exist from the outset. You are trying to hold God to a standard of rationality that has no basis without him.

We call that basis 'reality'.

Interesting. How do you know what is real?

That which conforms to a basic set of repetable condition or reasonable explanation for behavior. That which can be tested, for validity. Though I smell a presupposition argument coming.

Lol. You betcha. We all have our presuppositions.

Lets go wit what you said. "That which can be tested or validity". Are you using your senses when you test for validity?

Not any more. Such senses were developed and have already proven to working within expected parameters; 'testing' is not required. Were that not the case, you and I wouldn't be having this conversation.

----obvious rejoinder---

but how can you be sure of.... {ad infinitum}.

To cut this down: if you are going to ask 'how can you be sure...', or any other such similar questioning of validity/senses/reasoning, I am going to ask for what evidence you bring that such validity/senses/reasoning is incorrect, or faulty.

I think she's either related to scmike or scmike in disguise.


Its not an original argument. Time will soon tell if they repeat each other, or if they use the same source material or blunder down the same path. Similar as it may be, lets honor the spirit of a newcomer. In Scmike's favor, he/she did nothing worth banning. There is no benefit in adopting a new persona while abandoning the previous.

I just see Sye Ten written all over this argument. It's so sophomoric.
bornofgod
Posts: 11,322
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2/7/2015 11:38:33 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 2/7/2015 11:34:51 AM, debate_power wrote:
At 2/6/2015 10:05:48 PM, ChrisL wrote:
At 2/6/2015 4:31:44 PM, debate_power wrote:
At 2/6/2015 4:21:27 PM, debate_power wrote:
At 2/6/2015 4:18:11 PM, Harikrish wrote:
At 2/6/2015 4:08:09 PM, debate_power wrote:
1. Where is the rationale for God's decision to create everything? He did not have any need to create anything, because he had no need of anything.

2. Why is God infinite, and not the universe? Why does God exist, and not a universal time paradox?

3. Why do we humans really need to live here on Earth if heaven is so much better, and the faithful of us are going there anyway? Why are some excluded due to lack of belief? God has nothing to lose by not excluding us- and if he truly loved everyone I feel like he wouldn't leave any room for uncertainty of his existence. Why are there people who don't believe? Why are some people in remote parts of the world denied the chance of becoming religious?

4. Why would God wait so long to send Christ? Did he not love the people before Christ?

5. Why is the world imperfect? Does God derive pleasure from our suffering? Why did God let sin happen? Why would he need to even create us to derive pleasure in the first place?

6. Why would God leave such convincing evidence of the theory of evolution?

7. What was the point of the flood if God could have just magically fixed everything?

8. Why would God need to kill off Jesus Christ if God were omnipotent?

9. Why would God allow for other religions to spread their word?

10. What is the point of killing everything off only to replace it again?

11. Why does the God of the Old Testament differ so much from that of the New?

12. How do you expect me to fall for such a cheap scam?

The questions are too rational for the infinite objective wisdom of God.

Youch. I must be more practical than God is. Or maybe just more loving.

What you are saying is that an objectively rational being should not be questioned when behaving irrationally.

All of your questions assume that God does not exist from the outset. You are trying to hold God to a standard of rationality that has no basis without him.

So you're just saying that I should lap up whatever I hear from God whether I think it is crazy or not. God doesn't tell me why exactly his actions are rational, and because the "evidence" makes him look irrational to me, I have the logical inclination to discredit the rationality of his actions.

Christians can't answer your questions because they have no knowledge of God to give you answers to them. Every Christian in this forum will keep from answering your questions. If they do, they will have to lie to you because they do not know who we are in God or what His plan is for us all.
debate_power
Posts: 726
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2/7/2015 11:41:02 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 2/7/2015 11:38:33 AM, bornofgod wrote:
At 2/7/2015 11:34:51 AM, debate_power wrote:
At 2/6/2015 10:05:48 PM, ChrisL wrote:
At 2/6/2015 4:31:44 PM, debate_power wrote:
At 2/6/2015 4:21:27 PM, debate_power wrote:
At 2/6/2015 4:18:11 PM, Harikrish wrote:
At 2/6/2015 4:08:09 PM, debate_power wrote:
1. Where is the rationale for God's decision to create everything? He did not have any need to create anything, because he had no need of anything.

2. Why is God infinite, and not the universe? Why does God exist, and not a universal time paradox?

3. Why do we humans really need to live here on Earth if heaven is so much better, and the faithful of us are going there anyway? Why are some excluded due to lack of belief? God has nothing to lose by not excluding us- and if he truly loved everyone I feel like he wouldn't leave any room for uncertainty of his existence. Why are there people who don't believe? Why are some people in remote parts of the world denied the chance of becoming religious?

4. Why would God wait so long to send Christ? Did he not love the people before Christ?

5. Why is the world imperfect? Does God derive pleasure from our suffering? Why did God let sin happen? Why would he need to even create us to derive pleasure in the first place?

6. Why would God leave such convincing evidence of the theory of evolution?

7. What was the point of the flood if God could have just magically fixed everything?

8. Why would God need to kill off Jesus Christ if God were omnipotent?

9. Why would God allow for other religions to spread their word?

10. What is the point of killing everything off only to replace it again?

11. Why does the God of the Old Testament differ so much from that of the New?

12. How do you expect me to fall for such a cheap scam?

The questions are too rational for the infinite objective wisdom of God.

Youch. I must be more practical than God is. Or maybe just more loving.

What you are saying is that an objectively rational being should not be questioned when behaving irrationally.

All of your questions assume that God does not exist from the outset. You are trying to hold God to a standard of rationality that has no basis without him.

So you're just saying that I should lap up whatever I hear from God whether I think it is crazy or not. God doesn't tell me why exactly his actions are rational, and because the "evidence" makes him look irrational to me, I have the logical inclination to discredit the rationality of his actions.

Christians can't answer your questions because they have no knowledge of God to give you answers to them. Every Christian in this forum will keep from answering your questions. If they do, they will have to lie to you because they do not know who we are in God or what His plan is for us all.

So, from my own knowledge, I conclude that God has behaved irrationally in the past. I don't see why you don't adopt the same viewpoint, considering that

"Christians can't answer your questions because they have no knowledge of God to give you answers to them."

For an omnipotent being, God looks pretty dumb.
You can call me Mark if you like.
bornofgod
Posts: 11,322
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2/7/2015 11:47:11 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 2/7/2015 11:41:02 AM, debate_power wrote:
At 2/7/2015 11:38:33 AM, bornofgod wrote:
At 2/7/2015 11:34:51 AM, debate_power wrote:
At 2/6/2015 10:05:48 PM, ChrisL wrote:
At 2/6/2015 4:31:44 PM, debate_power wrote:
At 2/6/2015 4:21:27 PM, debate_power wrote:
At 2/6/2015 4:18:11 PM, Harikrish wrote:
At 2/6/2015 4:08:09 PM, debate_power wrote:
1. Where is the rationale for God's decision to create everything? He did not have any need to create anything, because he had no need of anything.

2. Why is God infinite, and not the universe? Why does God exist, and not a universal time paradox?

3. Why do we humans really need to live here on Earth if heaven is so much better, and the faithful of us are going there anyway? Why are some excluded due to lack of belief? God has nothing to lose by not excluding us- and if he truly loved everyone I feel like he wouldn't leave any room for uncertainty of his existence. Why are there people who don't believe? Why are some people in remote parts of the world denied the chance of becoming religious?

4. Why would God wait so long to send Christ? Did he not love the people before Christ?

5. Why is the world imperfect? Does God derive pleasure from our suffering? Why did God let sin happen? Why would he need to even create us to derive pleasure in the first place?

6. Why would God leave such convincing evidence of the theory of evolution?

7. What was the point of the flood if God could have just magically fixed everything?

8. Why would God need to kill off Jesus Christ if God were omnipotent?

9. Why would God allow for other religions to spread their word?

10. What is the point of killing everything off only to replace it again?

11. Why does the God of the Old Testament differ so much from that of the New?

12. How do you expect me to fall for such a cheap scam?

The questions are too rational for the infinite objective wisdom of God.

Youch. I must be more practical than God is. Or maybe just more loving.

What you are saying is that an objectively rational being should not be questioned when behaving irrationally.

All of your questions assume that God does not exist from the outset. You are trying to hold God to a standard of rationality that has no basis without him.

So you're just saying that I should lap up whatever I hear from God whether I think it is crazy or not. God doesn't tell me why exactly his actions are rational, and because the "evidence" makes him look irrational to me, I have the logical inclination to discredit the rationality of his actions.

Christians can't answer your questions because they have no knowledge of God to give you answers to them. Every Christian in this forum will keep from answering your questions. If they do, they will have to lie to you because they do not know who we are in God or what His plan is for us all.

So, from my own knowledge, I conclude that God has behaved irrationally in the past. I don't see why you don't adopt the same viewpoint, considering that

"Christians can't answer your questions because they have no knowledge of God to give you answers to them."

For an omnipotent being, God looks pretty dumb.

God made most of His people stupid during this first age. He keeps most of them stupid until after their bodies die. Then He'll teach us exactly who we are in Him. For now, the only way for you to learn about His plan for the future is to read and listen to my testimonies from His mind where all thoughts come from.

If you listen to His voice, you will learn that He isn't so dumb after all.