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Religion = Proof of evolution

tvellalott
Posts: 10,864
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7/6/2010 7:45:36 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
On this particular occasion, I am not saying that any form of Diety (God, Allah, Zeus) doesn't exist. Since we cannot prove that to the satifaction of theists, the argument is always circular.
What I am saying is that the Creation theory of man is ridiculous.
Look at the many and varied religions of the world.
How do you explain how different cultures have formed completely different beliefs? It seems that as the homo sapian has evolved in different parts of the world into different races, they created different religions.
"Caitlyn Jenner is an incredibly brave and stunningly beautiful woman."

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popculturepooka
Posts: 7,924
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7/6/2010 7:56:43 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 7/6/2010 7:54:13 PM, InsertNameHere wrote:
You make some good points, but I'm not a creationist.

What good points does he make?
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Koopin
Posts: 12,090
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7/6/2010 8:00:26 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 7/6/2010 7:56:43 PM, popculturepooka wrote:
At 7/6/2010 7:54:13 PM, InsertNameHere wrote:
You make some good points, but I'm not a creationist.

What good points does he make?

I am trying to figure that out...
kfc
GeoLaureate8
Posts: 12,252
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7/6/2010 8:01:41 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 7/6/2010 7:54:13 PM, InsertNameHere wrote:
You make some good points,

I didn't see any, lol.

but I'm not a creationist.

Technically you are a Creationist, just not a Young Earth Creationist.
"We must raise the standard of the Old, free, decentralized, and strictly limited Republic."
-- Murray Rothbard

"The worst thing that can happen to a good cause is, not to be skillfully attacked, but to be ineptly defended."
-- Frederic Bastiat
InquireTruth
Posts: 723
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7/6/2010 8:02:54 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 7/6/2010 7:45:36 PM, tvellalott wrote:
On this particular occasion, I am not saying that any form of Diety (God, Allah, Zeus) doesn't exist. Since we cannot prove that to the satifaction of theists, the argument is always circular.
What I am saying is that the Creation theory of man is ridiculous.
Look at the many and varied religions of the world.
How do you explain how different cultures have formed completely different beliefs? It seems that as the homo sapian has evolved in different parts of the world into different races, they created different religions.

You are using the term proof where evidence is needed. Uncovering the origin of a particular belief - or many as you would have it - does not suffice is proving said belief as wrong. It is the genetic fallacy to think that because you showed where a belief came from that you have proven that belief to be false. My belief that sodium has causal effects on blood pressure could very well come from a Ren and Stimpy episode (while the origins are questionable, the belief is true nonetheless).

So no explanation for why there are varying belief systems is needed in order to refute the idea that it was ever proof in the first place.
GeoLaureate8
Posts: 12,252
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7/6/2010 8:05:31 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 7/6/2010 7:45:36 PM, tvellalott wrote:
How do you explain how different cultures have formed completely different beliefs?

I don't think cultures necessarily form the beliefs. It's usually one primary religious figure or sage and a few other "holy men." Then cultures are convinced by the teachings of these select few and base their beliefs on that.
"We must raise the standard of the Old, free, decentralized, and strictly limited Republic."
-- Murray Rothbard

"The worst thing that can happen to a good cause is, not to be skillfully attacked, but to be ineptly defended."
-- Frederic Bastiat
DATCMOTO
Posts: 6,160
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7/7/2010 3:53:30 AM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 7/6/2010 7:45:36 PM, tvellalott wrote:
On this particular occasion, I am not saying that any form of Diety (God, Allah, Zeus) doesn't exist. Since we cannot prove that to the satifaction of theists, the argument is always circular.
What I am saying is that the Creation theory of man is ridiculous.
Look at the many and varied religions of the world.
How do you explain how different cultures have formed completely different beliefs? It seems that as the homo sapian has evolved in different parts of the world into different races, they created different religions.

We explain it by the person of satan; he is a liar and a counterfieter.
He conterfiets religions and christs to fool you into EXACTLY this kind of thinking.
The Cross.. the Cross.
tvellalott
Posts: 10,864
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7/7/2010 4:44:50 AM
Posted: 6 years ago
*sigh*
Semantics, semantics.
Look, clearly the 6 major religions of the world (Christianity, Islam, Buddhism, Hinduism, Judaism and Sikhism) don't all originate in the same place.
A lot has changed in 500 years, but if you deny that seperate races created the religions independantly then it isn't even worth talking to you.
Yes, one leader or a group of leaders form a religion, but lots of people have to follow said leaders for them to get anywhere.
Prior to globalisation, these people would have to have come from the same area.
My conclusion then is that it indeed be the work of a person called Satan. I'm convinced.

Seriously though, it astounds me.
How do you know which religion to follow?
How do you know your religion is right?
Did you analyse them all like you would a home loan provider and decide or did you follow what everyone else did?
If you'd been born in a different place, would your religious beliefs still be the same?
If you were born in a different place, say the Middle East and followed Islam, should you still be punished in the afterlife?
"Caitlyn Jenner is an incredibly brave and stunningly beautiful woman."

Muh threads
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innomen
Posts: 10,052
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7/7/2010 4:59:42 AM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 7/7/2010 4:44:50 AM, tvellalott wrote:
*sigh*
Semantics, semantics.
Look, clearly the 6 major religions of the world (Christianity, Islam, Buddhism, Hinduism, Judaism and Sikhism) don't all originate in the same place.
A lot has changed in 500 years, but if you deny that seperate races created the religions independantly then it isn't even worth talking to you.
Yes, one leader or a group of leaders form a religion, but lots of people have to follow said leaders for them to get anywhere.
Prior to globalisation, these people would have to have come from the same area.
My conclusion then is that it indeed be the work of a person called Satan. I'm convinced.

Seriously though, it astounds me.
How do you know which religion to follow?
How do you know your religion is right?
Did you analyse them all like you would a home loan provider and decide or did you follow what everyone else did?
If you'd been born in a different place, would your religious beliefs still be the same?
If you were born in a different place, say the Middle East and followed Islam, should you still be punished in the afterlife?

Although not an adherent to the creationist belief, your argument is disjointed: The fact that there are many different belief systems exists proves the creationist belief is wrong, or more absurdly it proves evolution exists - that's just nonsensical.
popculturepooka
Posts: 7,924
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7/7/2010 6:10:43 AM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 7/7/2010 4:44:50 AM, tvellalott wrote:
*sigh*
Semantics, semantics.
Look, clearly the 6 major religions of the world (Christianity, Islam, Buddhism, Hinduism, Judaism and Sikhism) don't all originate in the same place.
A lot has changed in 500 years, but if you deny that seperate races created the religions independantly then it isn't even worth talking to you.
Yes, one leader or a group of leaders form a religion, but lots of people have to follow said leaders for them to get anywhere.
Prior to globalisation, these people would have to have come from the same area.
My conclusion then is that it indeed be the work of a person called Satan. I'm convinced.

Seriously though, it astounds me.
How do you know which religion to follow?
How do you know your religion is right?
Did you analyse them all like you would a home loan provider and decide or did you follow what everyone else did?
If you'd been born in a different place, would your religious beliefs still be the same?
If you were born in a different place, say the Middle East and followed Islam, should you still be punished in the afterlife?

If you were born in a different place would you still be an atheist?
At 10/3/2016 11:49:13 PM, thett3 wrote:
BLACK LIVES MATTER!
Yvette
Posts: 859
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7/7/2010 6:50:07 AM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 7/7/2010 6:10:43 AM, popculturepooka wrote:
At 7/7/2010 4:44:50 AM, tvellalott wrote:
*sigh*
Semantics, semantics.
Look, clearly the 6 major religions of the world (Christianity, Islam, Buddhism, Hinduism, Judaism and Sikhism) don't all originate in the same place.
A lot has changed in 500 years, but if you deny that seperate races created the religions independantly then it isn't even worth talking to you.
Yes, one leader or a group of leaders form a religion, but lots of people have to follow said leaders for them to get anywhere.
Prior to globalisation, these people would have to have come from the same area.
My conclusion then is that it indeed be the work of a person called Satan. I'm convinced.

Seriously though, it astounds me.
How do you know which religion to follow?
How do you know your religion is right?
Did you analyse them all like you would a home loan provider and decide or did you follow what everyone else did?
If you'd been born in a different place, would your religious beliefs still be the same?
If you were born in a different place, say the Middle East and followed Islam, should you still be punished in the afterlife?

If you were born in a different place would you still be an atheist?

Atheism is *usually* a rejection of the religion within each culture. There are very few cultures which are/have been atheistic (but do believe in other supernatural things), and America certainly isn't one of them.
In the middle of moving to Washington. 8D

"If God does not exist, then chocolate causing cancer is only true for the society that has evidence for that." --GodSands
innomen
Posts: 10,052
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7/7/2010 7:25:04 AM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 7/7/2010 6:50:07 AM, Yvette wrote:
At 7/7/2010 6:10:43 AM, popculturepooka wrote:
At 7/7/2010 4:44:50 AM, tvellalott wrote:
*sigh*
Semantics, semantics.
Look, clearly the 6 major religions of the world (Christianity, Islam, Buddhism, Hinduism, Judaism and Sikhism) don't all originate in the same place.
A lot has changed in 500 years, but if you deny that seperate races created the religions independantly then it isn't even worth talking to you.
Yes, one leader or a group of leaders form a religion, but lots of people have to follow said leaders for them to get anywhere.
Prior to globalisation, these people would have to have come from the same area.
My conclusion then is that it indeed be the work of a person called Satan. I'm convinced.

Seriously though, it astounds me.
How do you know which religion to follow?
How do you know your religion is right?
Did you analyse them all like you would a home loan provider and decide or did you follow what everyone else did?
If you'd been born in a different place, would your religious beliefs still be the same?
If you were born in a different place, say the Middle East and followed Islam, should you still be punished in the afterlife?

If you were born in a different place would you still be an atheist?

Atheism is *usually* a rejection of the religion within each culture. There are very few cultures which are/have been atheistic (but do believe in other supernatural things), and America certainly isn't one of them.

Wrong, it is intellectually chic to be an atheist in the US. If you were in Latin America you would most likely have a different perspective and belief system.
Anacharsis
Posts: 139
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7/7/2010 8:43:22 AM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 7/7/2010 4:44:50 AM, tvellalott wrote:
*sigh*
Semantics, semantics.
Look, clearly the 6 major religions of the world (Christianity, Islam, Buddhism, Hinduism, Judaism and Sikhism) don't all originate in the same place.
A lot has changed in 500 years, but if you deny that seperate races created the religions independantly then it isn't even worth talking to you.
Yes, one leader or a group of leaders form a religion, but lots of people have to follow said leaders for them to get anywhere.
Prior to globalisation, these people would have to have come from the same area.
My conclusion then is that it indeed be the work of a person called Satan. I'm convinced.

Seriously though, it astounds me.
How do you know which religion to follow?
How do you know your religion is right?
Did you analyse them all like you would a home loan provider and decide or did you follow what everyone else did?
If you'd been born in a different place, would your religious beliefs still be the same?
If you were born in a different place, say the Middle East and followed Islam, should you still be punished in the afterlife?

Since you specifically mention Sikhism I will answer, being apparently the only sikh active on the site. Yes, I basically analyzed all of the information about all of the religions as well as non-religious spiritual beliefs and other world paradigms that I could find and determined which one I wanted to follow. This appears to be as atypical of sikhs as it is among people of any belief. Most sikhs are such because of family tradition just as with any other religion. If I had been born in any country or even another planet and came by the sikh dharma I would likely have arrived at the same conclusions and be attempting to follow it in the same way, although I suppose I would be a different person with different knowledge. So, who could know? I do not know that it is "right" from some objective standpoint or that it is right for everyone. I only know that it is right for me.

But now down to your original question about creation myths. Sikhism makes no claim about how God achieved the creation; none. There is no conflict with any finding of science. In fact, the very first bani written by Guru Nanak, Japji Sahib, specifically mentions that nobody knows when or how the universe was created. The fact that peoples of different cultures have all come up with their own creation myth, I do take as evidence that suggests they are all equally unlikely, which is to say very.
gr33k_fr33k5
Posts: 321
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7/7/2010 9:16:58 AM
Posted: 6 years ago
christianity stands apart in that it is the only religion where man does not save himself. . . the only religion where we must be reliant on the benevolence of God. It is the only religion that says no matter what you do, your filthy and going to Hell . .. and only through faith are you saved. Thats why I think its true. . . regardless of the creation story
I am free, free indeed!

ignorance is bliss
Anacharsis
Posts: 139
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7/7/2010 9:43:49 AM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 7/7/2010 9:16:58 AM, gr33k_fr33k5 wrote:
christianity stands apart in that it is the only religion where man does not save himself. . . the only religion where we must be reliant on the benevolence of God. It is the only religion that says no matter what you do, your filthy and going to Hell . .. and only through faith are you saved. Thats why I think its true. . . regardless of the creation story

Not quite true. Thought there is no concept of hell as place or any eternal damnation, sikhism says that although we must perform good acts, behave in a proper manner and govern the mind and speech toward what is good, that these are insufficient to attain our goal. All our practice in worship will be useless without the grace of God. It is only the grace of God that leads us to become worthy of release from the cycle of birth and death and merge with Him in bliss.

I apologize for the digression from the thread, but thought it worth correcting this mistaken belief of gr33k_fr33k5. It is my understanding that Islam also shares the belief in a need for God's grace in order to attain heaven, though this is not attained through belief in Jesus.
InsertNameHere
Posts: 15,699
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7/7/2010 9:52:23 AM
Posted: 6 years ago
Maybe that's why most Christians think they can do whatever they want and not follow the scriptures. They think They're automatically "saved" regardless.
Valtarov
Posts: 136
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7/7/2010 10:08:23 AM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 7/7/2010 4:44:50 AM, tvellalott wrote:
*sigh*
Semantics, semantics.
Calling you out on fallacies is not semantics.
Look, clearly the 6 major religions of the world (Christianity, Islam, Buddhism, Hinduism, Judaism and Sikhism) don't all originate in the same place.
This doesn't prove anything other than geographic separation.
A lot has changed in 500 years, but if you deny that seperate [sic] races created the religions independantly [sic] then it isn't even worth talking to you.
You a) assume that all religions are false and b) assume that there are no objective moral principles nor common, "true" supernatural beings. No civilization is independent of any other, in any case.
Yes, one leader or a group of leaders form a religion, but lots of people have to follow said leaders for them to get anywhere.
The fact that it has to start with somebody is hardly an argument. As much as I say (Diderot?) created (was the first) atheist, it won't prove atheism wrong.
Prior to globalisation, these people would have to have come from the same area.
True. Which is why it's surprising that the Ancient Egyptians and Confucius had similar moral ideas.
My conclusion then is that it indeed be the work of a person called Satan. I'm convinced.
Sarcasm means nothing.

Seriously though, it astounds me.
How do you know which religion to follow?
Because it's the one that happens to be true.
How do you know your religion is right?
Because it's true.
Did you analyse them all like you would a home loan provider and decide or did you follow what everyone else did?
No, because you want to get something else back out of a home loan. I rather examined the truth claims and sources of said truth claims from said religions.
If you'd been born in a different place, would your religious beliefs still be the same?
I assume you mean "Were you born into a different tradition, would your beliefs be different?" Maybe, but not by much.
If you were born in a different place, say the Middle East and followed Islam, should you still be punished in the afterlife?
I believe there will be a good many Muslims in heaven. Parable of the Sheep and the Goats.
"We are half-hearted creatures,
fooling about with drink and sex and
ambition when infinite joy is offered us,
like an ignorant child who wants to go on
making mud pies in a slum because he
cannot imagine what is meant by the offer
of a holiday at the sea. We are far too easily
pleased."—C.S. Lewis, "The Weight of Glory"
Valtarov
Posts: 136
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7/7/2010 10:11:46 AM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 7/7/2010 9:52:23 AM, InsertNameHere wrote:
Maybe that's why most Christians think they can do whatever they want and not follow the scriptures. They think They're automatically "saved" regardless.

"Ye see, then, that out of works is man declared righteous, and not out of faith only;"--James 2:24

"41 Then shall he say also to those on the left hand, Go ye from me, the cursed, to the fire, the age-during, that hath been prepared for the Devil and his messengers; 42 for I did hunger, and ye gave me not to eat; I did thirst, and ye gave me not to drink; 43 a stranger I was, and ye did not receive me; naked, and ye put not around me; infirm, and in prison, and ye did not look after me. 44 'Then shall they answer, they also, saying, Lord, when did we see thee hungering, or thirsting, or a stranger, or naked, or infirm, or in prison, and we did not minister to thee? 45 Then shall he answer them, saying, Verily I say to you, Inasmuch as ye did it not to one of these, the least, ye did it not to me. 46 And these shall go away to punishment age-during, but the righteous to life age-during.'" Part II of Parable of the sheep and the Goats. (Matthew 25)

Pretty obviously, those Christians who think they can do whatever they want are wrong.
"We are half-hearted creatures,
fooling about with drink and sex and
ambition when infinite joy is offered us,
like an ignorant child who wants to go on
making mud pies in a slum because he
cannot imagine what is meant by the offer
of a holiday at the sea. We are far too easily
pleased."—C.S. Lewis, "The Weight of Glory"
Yvette
Posts: 859
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7/7/2010 12:34:56 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 7/7/2010 7:25:04 AM, innomen wrote:
At 7/7/2010 6:50:07 AM, Yvette wrote:
At 7/7/2010 6:10:43 AM, popculturepooka wrote:
At 7/7/2010 4:44:50 AM, tvellalott wrote:
*sigh*
Semantics, semantics.
Look, clearly the 6 major religions of the world (Christianity, Islam, Buddhism, Hinduism, Judaism and Sikhism) don't all originate in the same place.
A lot has changed in 500 years, but if you deny that seperate races created the religions independantly then it isn't even worth talking to you.
Yes, one leader or a group of leaders form a religion, but lots of people have to follow said leaders for them to get anywhere.
Prior to globalisation, these people would have to have come from the same area.
My conclusion then is that it indeed be the work of a person called Satan. I'm convinced.

Seriously though, it astounds me.
How do you know which religion to follow?
How do you know your religion is right?
Did you analyse them all like you would a home loan provider and decide or did you follow what everyone else did?
If you'd been born in a different place, would your religious beliefs still be the same?
If you were born in a different place, say the Middle East and followed Islam, should you still be punished in the afterlife?

If you were born in a different place would you still be an atheist?

Atheism is *usually* a rejection of the religion within each culture. There are very few cultures which are/have been atheistic (but do believe in other supernatural things), and America certainly isn't one of them.

Wrong, it is intellectually chic to be an atheist in the US. If you were in Latin America you would most likely have a different perspective and belief system.

Chic? You're shitting me right?
In the middle of moving to Washington. 8D

"If God does not exist, then chocolate causing cancer is only true for the society that has evidence for that." --GodSands
Vi_Veri
Posts: 4,487
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7/7/2010 12:43:01 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
lol Let me go be a trendy atheist and get sh1t at home, in my community, at work, etc. People don't just choose to be an atheist to be "trendy." It's your eternal soul at risk. Being an atheist to look cool just isn't worth it unless you truly don't believe in god.
I could give a f about no haters as long as my ishes love me.
GeoLaureate8
Posts: 12,252
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7/7/2010 12:59:59 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 7/7/2010 10:08:23 AM, Valtarov wrote:
At 7/7/2010 4:44:50 tvelliot:
How do you know which religion to follow?
Because it's the one that happens to be true.
How do you know your religion is right?
Because it's true.

Really? You know Christianity is true over all the others because it happens to be true?

I seriously doubt that you analyzed every major religion and compared the truth claims of each and concluded Christianity.

If you were born in a different place, say the Middle East and followed Islam, should you still be punished in the afterlife?
I believe there will be a good many Muslims in heaven. Parable of the Sheep and the Goats.

Muslims deny that Jesus is son of God, yet Jesus says he is the only way to God. Are you sure Muslims will be in your heaven?
"We must raise the standard of the Old, free, decentralized, and strictly limited Republic."
-- Murray Rothbard

"The worst thing that can happen to a good cause is, not to be skillfully attacked, but to be ineptly defended."
-- Frederic Bastiat
Valtarov
Posts: 136
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7/7/2010 1:10:11 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 7/7/2010 12:59:59 PM, GeoLaureate8 wrote:
At 7/7/2010 10:08:23 AM, Valtarov wrote:
At 7/7/2010 4:44:50 tvelliot:
How do you know which religion to follow?
Because it's the one that happens to be true.
How do you know your religion is right?
Because it's true.

Really? You know Christianity is true over all the others because it happens to be true?
I was answering his questions, not making an argument.

I seriously doubt that you analyzed every major religion and compared the truth claims of each and concluded Christianity.
I read four books on the subject (one of them on all 8 of the major religions). I happen to be a very Confucian Christian. I like some things in Buddhism, some things in Daoism, a good many things in Islam, and even like some of what the Youruba teach. I am well-read on the subject.

If you were born in a different place, say the Middle East and followed Islam, should you still be punished in the afterlife?
I believe there will be a good many Muslims in heaven. Parable of the Sheep and the Goats.

Muslims deny that Jesus is son of God, yet Jesus says he is the only way to God. Are you sure Muslims will be in your heaven?
Jesus says that He is the way. He says if you believe in him, you get eternal life. He explicitly doesn't say that if you don't believe in him, you are condemned forever. It is entirely possible to be saved through Jesus through your adherence to those parts of another religion that are most like Christianity. Moreover, the parable of the sheep and the goats, 1 Timothy 4:10, and the verse in Revelations (I forget the number) where it describes Christ with a "great multitude from every tribe, nation, and tongue". It's very hard to do that unless orthopraxy, not orthodoxy, matters.
"We are half-hearted creatures,
fooling about with drink and sex and
ambition when infinite joy is offered us,
like an ignorant child who wants to go on
making mud pies in a slum because he
cannot imagine what is meant by the offer
of a holiday at the sea. We are far too easily
pleased."—C.S. Lewis, "The Weight of Glory"
Anacharsis
Posts: 139
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7/7/2010 2:05:59 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 7/7/2010 1:10:11 PM, Valtarov wrote:
At 7/7/2010 12:59:59 PM, GeoLaureate8 wrote:
At 7/7/2010 10:08:23 AM, Valtarov wrote:
At 7/7/2010 4:44:50 tvelliot:
How do you know which religion to follow?
Because it's the one that happens to be true.
How do you know your religion is right?
Because it's true.

Really? You know Christianity is true over all the others because it happens to be true?
I was answering his questions, not making an argument.

I seriously doubt that you analyzed every major religion and compared the truth claims of each and concluded Christianity.
I read four books on the subject (one of them on all 8 of the major religions). I happen to be a very Confucian Christian. I like some things in Buddhism, some things in Daoism, a good many things in Islam, and even like some of what the Youruba teach. I am well-read on the subject.

It is admirable that you have attempted to learn more about other traditions. Surely none of us could hope to learn all that is valuable within all of humanity's traditions within one lifetime. I know that I haven't. I would still characterize reading "four books on the subject (one of them on all 8 of the major religions)" as a brief foray into comparative religion.

Consider if you were thinking about moving to a different country. There is certainly a lot you could learn by reading about them and you could eliminate most of them from the running easily. But once you've identified a good candidate you actually have to move there and live for at least a couple years to find out what it's really like. I hope you will continue your explorations, keeping mind and heart open to all that is good within each vision of the divine.
tvellalott
Posts: 10,864
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7/7/2010 4:25:14 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
Saying "because it's true" doesn't answer my question. I don't believe any kind of God exists, just as I don't believe vampires, werewolves, ghosts, Bigfoot or the monster under little Timmy's bed exist. Why? Because there isn't single, solid shred of evidence that they do, even though little Timmy is sure it's true. However, I likewise cannot prove that they do not exist, at least to the satisfaction of anyone who does believe.
That is NOT the point I'm trying to make.
If you're a Christian and you believe God created the Homo Sapien race 4000 years ago and you're teaching your children that, you need to be shaken really hard.

Religion has always existed, the Gods just keep changing.
My question is WHY do the Gods keep changing? Why are there so many Gods? Why didn't God send an Asian son, an African son and an Indian son to spread his word?
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Danielle
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7/7/2010 5:59:28 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 7/7/2010 12:43:01 PM, Vi_Veri wrote:
lol Let me go be a trendy atheist and get sh1t at home, in my community, at work, etc. People don't just choose to be an atheist to be "trendy." It's your eternal soul at risk. Being an atheist to look cool just isn't worth it unless you truly don't believe in god.

Exactly. You can't fake being an Atheist lol. You either believe in God, you don't, or you don't know if you believe in God. If you believe in God and just say you're an Atheist, then you're not really an Atheist.

You (innomen) said that if I lived in Latin America I would probably be a Christian. That's true, because I'd probably be uneducated. I was a theist until I learned about history and logic too lol.
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tvellalott
Posts: 10,864
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7/8/2010 8:38:21 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 7/7/2010 3:53:30 AM, DATCMOTO wrote:
At 7/6/2010 7:45:36 PM, tvellalott wrote:
On this particular occasion, I am not saying that any form of Diety (God, Allah, Zeus) doesn't exist. Since we cannot prove that to the satifaction of theists, the argument is always circular.
What I am saying is that the Creation theory of man is ridiculous.
Look at the many and varied religions of the world.
How do you explain how different cultures have formed completely different beliefs? It seems that as the homo sapian has evolved in different parts of the world into different races, they created different religions.

We explain it by the person of satan; he is a liar and a counterfieter.
He conterfiets religions and christs to fool you into EXACTLY this kind of thinking.

If satan has fooled so many people, doesn't that prove he is better and that I should worship him?
"Caitlyn Jenner is an incredibly brave and stunningly beautiful woman."

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Valtarov
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7/8/2010 8:41:52 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 7/8/2010 8:38:21 PM, tvellalott wrote:
At 7/7/2010 3:53:30 AM, DATCMOTO wrote:
At 7/6/2010 7:45:36 PM, tvellalott wrote:
On this particular occasion, I am not saying that any form of Diety (God, Allah, Zeus) doesn't exist. Since we cannot prove that to the satifaction of theists, the argument is always circular.
What I am saying is that the Creation theory of man is ridiculous.
Look at the many and varied religions of the world.
How do you explain how different cultures have formed completely different beliefs? It seems that as the homo sapian has evolved in different parts of the world into different races, they created different religions.

We explain it by the person of satan; he is a liar and a counterfieter.
He conterfiets religions and christs to fool you into EXACTLY this kind of thinking.

If satan has fooled so many people, doesn't that prove he is better and that I should worship him?

So I should worship whoever is best at manipulating me? Brings to mind a certain Adolf Hitler and a certain few people called the SS...
"We are half-hearted creatures,
fooling about with drink and sex and
ambition when infinite joy is offered us,
like an ignorant child who wants to go on
making mud pies in a slum because he
cannot imagine what is meant by the offer
of a holiday at the sea. We are far too easily
pleased."—C.S. Lewis, "The Weight of Glory"
Valtarov
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7/8/2010 8:43:17 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 7/7/2010 2:05:59 PM, Anacharsis wrote:
At 7/7/2010 1:10:11 PM, Valtarov wrote:
At 7/7/2010 12:59:59 PM, GeoLaureate8 wrote:
At 7/7/2010 10:08:23 AM, Valtarov wrote:
At 7/7/2010 4:44:50 tvelliot:
How do you know which religion to follow?
Because it's the one that happens to be true.
How do you know your religion is right?
Because it's true.

Really? You know Christianity is true over all the others because it happens to be true?
I was answering his questions, not making an argument.

I seriously doubt that you analyzed every major religion and compared the truth claims of each and concluded Christianity.
I read four books on the subject (one of them on all 8 of the major religions). I happen to be a very Confucian Christian. I like some things in Buddhism, some things in Daoism, a good many things in Islam, and even like some of what the Youruba teach. I am well-read on the subject.

It is admirable that you have attempted to learn more about other traditions. Surely none of us could hope to learn all that is valuable within all of humanity's traditions within one lifetime. I know that I haven't. I would still characterize reading "four books on the subject (one of them on all 8 of the major religions)" as a brief foray into comparative religion.

Consider if you were thinking about moving to a different country. There is certainly a lot you could learn by reading about them and you could eliminate most of them from the running easily. But once you've identified a good candidate you actually have to move there and live for at least a couple years to find out what it's really like. I hope you will continue your explorations, keeping mind and heart open to all that is good within each vision of the divine.

Very true. I was simply saying that I have done some examination, unlike what GeoLaureate said. I still have much study to do.
"We are half-hearted creatures,
fooling about with drink and sex and
ambition when infinite joy is offered us,
like an ignorant child who wants to go on
making mud pies in a slum because he
cannot imagine what is meant by the offer
of a holiday at the sea. We are far too easily
pleased."—C.S. Lewis, "The Weight of Glory"
tvellalott
Posts: 10,864
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7/8/2010 8:45:50 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 7/8/2010 8:41:52 PM, Valtarov wrote:
At 7/8/2010 8:38:21 PM, tvellalott wrote:
At 7/7/2010 3:53:30 AM, DATCMOTO wrote:
At 7/6/2010 7:45:36 PM, tvellalott wrote:
On this particular occasion, I am not saying that any form of Diety (God, Allah, Zeus) doesn't exist. Since we cannot prove that to the satifaction of theists, the argument is always circular.
What I am saying is that the Creation theory of man is ridiculous.
Look at the many and varied religions of the world.
How do you explain how different cultures have formed completely different beliefs? It seems that as the homo sapian has evolved in different parts of the world into different races, they created different religions.

We explain it by the person of satan; he is a liar and a counterfieter.
He conterfiets religions and christs to fool you into EXACTLY this kind of thinking.

If satan has fooled so many people, doesn't that prove he is better and that I should worship him?

So I should worship whoever is best at manipulating me? Brings to mind a certain Adolf Hitler and a certain few people called the SS...

Yes, yes you should.
"Caitlyn Jenner is an incredibly brave and stunningly beautiful woman."

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