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Are There Any Existentialists Here?

GeoLaureate8
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7/6/2010 10:26:10 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
Are there any Existentialist here and who is your favorite Existentialist philosopher?

It's surprising that not too many identify as such or talk about it, despite the fact that much of the great philosophers were Existentialists (Kierkegaard, Heidegger, Sartre, Camus, Nietzsche, Marcel, and Jaspers).

And what is your take on the core concept in Existentialism of "Existence precedes essense."
"We must raise the standard of the Old, free, decentralized, and strictly limited Republic."
-- Murray Rothbard

"The worst thing that can happen to a good cause is, not to be skillfully attacked, but to be ineptly defended."
-- Frederic Bastiat
GeoLaureate8
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7/6/2010 10:30:20 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
I just found a shocking statement made by Martin Heidegger criticizing Sartre (which is ironic because Sartre was influenced by Heidegger).

"Existentialism says existence precedes essence. In this statement he is taking existentia and essentia according to their metaphysical meaning, which, from Plato's time on, has said that essentia precedes existentia. Sartre reverses this statement. But the reversal of a metaphysical statement remains a metaphysical statement. With it, he stays with metaphysics, in oblivion of the truth of Being."
-- Martin Heidegger

Thoughts?
"We must raise the standard of the Old, free, decentralized, and strictly limited Republic."
-- Murray Rothbard

"The worst thing that can happen to a good cause is, not to be skillfully attacked, but to be ineptly defended."
-- Frederic Bastiat
J.Kenyon
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7/6/2010 10:32:13 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
Nietschze was an existentialist?

I'm not a fan of Sartre. Camus is an amazing author (I'm reading The Plague right now), but he prefers to call himself an "absurdist" rather than an existentialist. Can't really comment on the rest.
Vi_Veri
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7/6/2010 10:35:08 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 7/6/2010 10:32:13 PM, J.Kenyon wrote:
Nietschze was an existentialist?

I'm not a fan of Sartre. Camus is an amazing author (I'm reading The Plague right now), but he prefers to call himself an "absurdist" rather than an existentialist. Can't really comment on the rest.

Yes, Nietzsche was definitely an existentialist.

I absolutely love Nietzsche, Sartre, Camus - and of course, Simone de Beauvoir.

"As you read so you remember; or at least you have the illusion of remembering." - SB
I could give a f about no haters as long as my ishes love me.
Danielle
Posts: 21,330
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7/6/2010 10:35:28 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 7/6/2010 10:32:13 PM, J.Kenyon wrote:
Nietschze was an existentialist?

He was THEE existentialist lol. Or one of them :p
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Danielle
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7/6/2010 10:36:18 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 7/6/2010 10:35:08 PM, Vi_Veri wrote:
"As you read so you remember; or at least you have the illusion of remembering." - SB

Wut's that supposed to mean? Sounds like one of those "proves nothing" quotes lol :p
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Vi_Veri
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7/6/2010 10:37:25 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 7/6/2010 10:36:18 PM, theLwerd wrote:
At 7/6/2010 10:35:08 PM, Vi_Veri wrote:
"As you read so you remember; or at least you have the illusion of remembering." - SB

Wut's that supposed to mean? Sounds like one of those "proves nothing" quotes lol :p

lol Essence my dear - essence.
I could give a f about no haters as long as my ishes love me.
Danielle
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7/6/2010 10:37:49 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 7/6/2010 10:32:13 PM, J.Kenyon wrote:
Camus is an amazing author (I'm reading The Plague right now)

Is it good? I read The Stranger twice - meh. If he wrote that book a particular way to make a point, then it's one thing, but if it's his typical style of writing - then I don't like it lol.
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Danielle
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7/6/2010 10:38:45 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 7/6/2010 10:37:25 PM, Vi_Veri wrote:
At 7/6/2010 10:36:18 PM, theLwerd wrote:
At 7/6/2010 10:35:08 PM, Vi_Veri wrote:
"As you read so you remember; or at least you have the illusion of remembering." - SB

Wut's that supposed to mean? Sounds like one of those "proves nothing" quotes lol :p

lol Essence my dear - essence.

Oh reading = essence now? Or essence = memory? Haha. Gotcha. It's all clear :p
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annhasle
Posts: 6,657
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7/6/2010 10:47:31 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 7/6/2010 10:26:10 PM, GeoLaureate8 wrote:
Are there any Existentialist here and who is your favorite Existentialist philosopher?

It's surprising that not too many identify as such or talk about it, despite the fact that much of the great philosophers were Existentialists (Kierkegaard, Heidegger, Sartre, Camus, Nietzsche, Marcel, and Jaspers).

And what is your take on the core concept in Existentialism of "Existence precedes essense."

Well, I'm reading the "Antichrist" by Nietzsche right now... he is brilliant. I've read more about nihilism than existentialism by him though. But I do find his ideas very persuasive in both fields.

The core concept I do agree with since, in my mind, it just seems like logic. The essence of a person cannot occur until they have existed. When a human is born, they have no predetermined value or content, really.That is built over time and with experiences. Yes, that is over simplified for the core concept of such an extensive philosophy such as existentialism but... it just seems to be best put as simply as that.:D
I'm not back. This idiot just upset me which made me stop lurking.
TheSkeptic
Posts: 1,362
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7/6/2010 10:58:11 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
The classical faces of existentialism are great, but I'm not too fond of their core ideas (especially Sartre). Anyone actually care to defend Sartre? lol.

I'm much more interested in the philosophical antecedents to existentialism, namely people like Husserl and Heidegger :).
Vi_Veri
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7/6/2010 11:16:43 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 7/6/2010 10:58:11 PM, TheSkeptic wrote:
The classical faces of existentialism are great, but I'm not too fond of their core ideas (especially Sartre). Anyone actually care to defend Sartre? lol.

I'm much more interested in the philosophical antecedents to existentialism, namely people like Husserl and Heidegger :).

One of my philosophy professors was a student of Heideggers, who, in turn, was a student of Nietzsche :) Pretty neat - so I guess that makes me the student, of the student of Nietzsche. Nice.
I could give a f about no haters as long as my ishes love me.
TheSkeptic
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7/6/2010 11:53:00 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
One of my philosophy professors was a student of Heideggers, who, in turn, was a student of Nietzsche :) Pretty neat - so I guess that makes me the student, of the student of Nietzsche. Nice.

Sucks for your philosophy professor though - Heidegger was notoriously known for being an @sshole :P. But awesome nonetheless! If I was you, I'd probably invade the professor's office hours to ask about Heidegger.
mattrodstrom
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7/7/2010 3:04:18 AM
Posted: 6 years ago
IMO

Nietzsche = the man (see Mine Animals!)
Heidegger = a silly nazi (what I read of his I could see was influenced by Nietzsche... But I didn't think it was as well put AND I thought that some of his analysis of language was bogus)
Sarte = a silly Frenchie (denies that he has animals)

At 7/6/2010 10:47:31 PM, annhasle wrote:
Well, I'm reading the "Antichrist" by Nietzsche right now... he is brilliant. I've read more about nihilism than existentialism by him though. But I do find his ideas very persuasive in both fields.

I think Nietzsche would strongly object to being called a Nihilist.
"He who does not know how to put his will into things at least puts a meaning into them: that is, he believes there is a will in them already."

Metaphysics:
"The science.. which deals with the fundamental errors of mankind - but as if they were the fundamental truths."
GeoLaureate8
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7/7/2010 3:12:08 AM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 7/7/2010 3:04:18 AM, mattrodstrom wrote:
Heidegger = a silly nazi (what I read of his I could see was influenced by Nietzsche... But I didn't think it was as well put AND I thought that some of his analysis of language was bogus)

Wow. What are you smokin. From what I heard, Heidegger joined the Nazi's for safety. Going against them would be suicide.

Please tell me, which ideas of Heidegger can be said to have been based on Nietzsche. Heidegger is one of the most original philosophers.
"We must raise the standard of the Old, free, decentralized, and strictly limited Republic."
-- Murray Rothbard

"The worst thing that can happen to a good cause is, not to be skillfully attacked, but to be ineptly defended."
-- Frederic Bastiat
mattrodstrom
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7/7/2010 3:23:11 AM
Posted: 6 years ago
being and essence...

I don't think Nietzsche really tries to tear'em apart... If anything he's about embracing your "essence"

Sarte does, saying that you choose your essence...

BUT then there's no impetus to choose... Meanwhile Nietzsche's animals do the choosing for him.

Nietzsche's Being has a nature... an "essence"...
"He who does not know how to put his will into things at least puts a meaning into them: that is, he believes there is a will in them already."

Metaphysics:
"The science.. which deals with the fundamental errors of mankind - but as if they were the fundamental truths."
GeoLaureate8
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7/7/2010 3:29:08 AM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 7/7/2010 3:23:11 AM, mattrodstrom wrote:
being and essence...

I don't think Nietzsche really tries to tear'em apart... If anything he's about embracing your "essence"

Sarte does, saying that you choose your essence...

BUT then there's no impetus to choose... Meanwhile Nietzsche's animals do the choosing for him.

Nietzsche's Being has a nature... an "essence"...

What are you even talking about. You didn't explain what ideas of Heidegger are taken from Nietzsche.

Heidegger's philosophy focuses on phenomenology and ontology which come from his own ideas as well as a bit of influence from Hussurl. Nietzsche, not so much.
"We must raise the standard of the Old, free, decentralized, and strictly limited Republic."
-- Murray Rothbard

"The worst thing that can happen to a good cause is, not to be skillfully attacked, but to be ineptly defended."
-- Frederic Bastiat
mattrodstrom
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7/7/2010 3:32:18 AM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 7/7/2010 3:12:08 AM, GeoLaureate8 wrote:
At 7/7/2010 3:04:18 AM, mattrodstrom wrote:
Heidegger = a silly nazi (what I read of his I could see was influenced by Nietzsche... But I didn't think it was as well put AND I thought that some of his analysis of language was bogus)

Wow. What are you smokin. From what I heard, Heidegger joined the Nazi's for safety. Going against them would be suicide.

From exerpts of his speech to Students where He said "Hitler IS your New Reality" or something like that Steeping his praise of Hitler in his ideas, along with his ridiculous Nationalism, and veiled innuendo against Jews in his "Being and Nothingness" and his complete social/personal rejection of his Jewish teacher Husserl... it would seem he was an Enthusiastic Nazi.

Please tell me, which ideas of Heidegger can be said to have been based on Nietzsche. Heidegger is one of the most original philosophers.

mmm... I gotta get goin. :)
"He who does not know how to put his will into things at least puts a meaning into them: that is, he believes there is a will in them already."

Metaphysics:
"The science.. which deals with the fundamental errors of mankind - but as if they were the fundamental truths."
GeoLaureate8
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7/7/2010 3:52:26 AM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 7/7/2010 3:32:18 AM, mattrodstrom wrote:
At 7/7/2010 3:12:08 AM, GeoLaureate8 wrote:
At 7/7/2010 3:04:18 AM, mattrodstrom wrote:
Heidegger = a silly nazi (what I read of his I could see was influenced by Nietzsche... But I didn't think it was as well put AND I thought that some of his analysis of language was bogus)

Wow. What are you smokin. From what I heard, Heidegger joined the Nazi's for safety. Going against them would be suicide.

From exerpts of his speech to Students where He said "Hitler IS your New Reality" or something like that Steeping his praise of Hitler in his ideas, along with his ridiculous Nationalism, and veiled innuendo against Jews

Sounds like defamatory statements not supported by evidence.

According to sources: "If he could steer the course of German universities, he could educate the coming generation of the true path National Socialism should follow. Heidegger had little interest in the methods of the Nazis or the conduct of the Reich, but he seemed to cling to the hope that with a victory, the German people could bring Western Civilization back to its true course."

"[Heidegger's] involvement with Nazism lacked depth, and his withdrawal from it was so muted as to be imperceptible. There was evasion perhaps, followed by amnesia…we learn precious little from his thought about the dilemmas of his time."

- http://evans-experientialism.freewebspace.com...

in his "Being and Nothingness"

He didn't write that book. Sartre did. You mean "Being and Time"?

and his complete social/personal rejection of his Jewish teacher Husserl... it would seem he was an Enthusiastic Nazi.

Actually, he dedicated his magnum opus, Being and Time, to his Jewish teacher Husserl.

Please tell me, which ideas of Heidegger can be said to have been based on Nietzsche. Heidegger is one of the most original philosophers.

mmm... I gotta get goin. :)

You're right actually. He was influenced by Nietzsche, but he didn't necessarily get his ideas from him.
"We must raise the standard of the Old, free, decentralized, and strictly limited Republic."
-- Murray Rothbard

"The worst thing that can happen to a good cause is, not to be skillfully attacked, but to be ineptly defended."
-- Frederic Bastiat
Vi_Veri
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7/7/2010 7:15:37 AM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 7/6/2010 11:53:00 PM, TheSkeptic wrote:
One of my philosophy professors was a student of Heideggers, who, in turn, was a student of Nietzsche :) Pretty neat - so I guess that makes me the student, of the student of Nietzsche. Nice.

Sucks for your philosophy professor though - Heidegger was notoriously known for being an @sshole :P. But awesome nonetheless! If I was you, I'd probably invade the professor's office hours to ask about Heidegger.

lol The professor is a giant @sshole as well. I'm sure he contended well :p We stay after class a lot though and talk to him about his experience learning under Heidegger. Super interesting guy. Absolute @sshole, but super interesting lol
I could give a f about no haters as long as my ishes love me.
Vi_Veri
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7/7/2010 7:28:20 AM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 7/7/2010 3:32:18 AM, mattrodstrom wrote:
At 7/7/2010 3:12:08 AM, GeoLaureate8 wrote:
At 7/7/2010 3:04:18 AM, mattrodstrom wrote:
Heidegger = a silly nazi (what I read of his I could see was influenced by Nietzsche... But I didn't think it was as well put AND I thought that some of his analysis of language was bogus)

Wow. What are you smokin. From what I heard, Heidegger joined the Nazi's for safety. Going against them would be suicide.

From exerpts of his speech to Students where He said "Hitler IS your New Reality" or something like that Steeping his praise of Hitler in his ideas, along with his ridiculous Nationalism, and veiled innuendo against Jews in his "Being and Nothingness" and his complete social/personal rejection of his Jewish teacher Husserl... it would seem he was an Enthusiastic Nazi.

Sartre wrote "Being and Nothingness." Heidegger wrote "Being and Time."

Heidegger was a huge Nazi. The only way he got away with publishing in the US is because his lover, Hannah Arendt, told publishers here that he had "quickly denounced his Nazi ways." His reputation got restored, but you can tell he was a Nazi until the end if you actually read any of his later work.

But who cares. When has being morally corrupt been a major career impediment for anyone? Heidegger was and is still regarded as a genius, and your genius always seems to over shadow all the bad stuff you've done.

But yes - you can see a lot of Nietzsche in Heidegger - but that's only because he was influenced by being Nietzsche's student. Nietzsche, by the way, did not like the Nazi's. His sister was the giant Nazi who gave away all of his things to Hitler. Man oh man, if only she died before Nietzsche.
I could give a f about no haters as long as my ishes love me.
mattrodstrom
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7/7/2010 8:08:25 AM
Posted: 6 years ago
The German people has been summoned by the Führer to vote; the Führer, however, is asking nothing from the people. Rather, he is giving the people the possibility of making, directly, the highest free decision of all: whether the entire people wants its own existence (Dasein) or whether it does not want it.
Tomorrow the people will choose nothing less than its future.
...
And so we, to whom the preservation of our people's will to know shall in the future be entrusted, declare: The National Socialist revolution is not merely the assumption of power as it exists presently in the State by another party, a party grown sufficiently large in numbers to be able to do so. Rather, this revolution is bringing about the total transformation of our German existence (Dasein). From now, on each and every thing demands decision, and every deed demands responsibility. Of this we are certain; If the will to self-responsibility becomes the law that governs the coexistence of nations, then each people can and must be the master who instructs every other people in the richness and strength of all the great deeds and works of human Being (Sein).
The choice that the German people must now make is, simply as an event in itself, quite independent of the outcome, the strongest expression of the new German reality embodied in he National Socialist State. Our will to national (volfdsch) self-responsibility desires that each people find and preserve the greatness and truth of its destiny (Bestimmung). This will is the highest guarantee of peace among nations, for it binds itself to the basic law of manly respect and unconditional honor. The Fuhrer has awakened this will in the entire people and has welded it into one single resolve. No one can remain away from the polls on the day when this will is manifested.
Heil Hitler!

- Martin Heidegger http://www.lacan.com...
"He who does not know how to put his will into things at least puts a meaning into them: that is, he believes there is a will in them already."

Metaphysics:
"The science.. which deals with the fundamental errors of mankind - but as if they were the fundamental truths."
mattrodstrom
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7/7/2010 8:10:36 AM
Posted: 6 years ago
Let your loyalty and your will to follow (Gefolgschaftswille) be strengthened daily and hourly. Let your courage grow without ceasing so that you will be able to make the sacrifices necessary to save the essence of our Volk and to elevate its innermost strength in the State.
Let not propositions and "ideas" be the rules of your Being (Sein).
The Führer alone is the present and future German reality and its law. Learn to know ever more deeply: from now on every single thing demands decision, and every action responsibility.
Heil Hitler!

http://www.lacan.com...
"He who does not know how to put his will into things at least puts a meaning into them: that is, he believes there is a will in them already."

Metaphysics:
"The science.. which deals with the fundamental errors of mankind - but as if they were the fundamental truths."
annhasle
Posts: 6,657
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7/7/2010 8:26:20 AM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 7/7/2010 3:04:18 AM, mattrodstrom wrote:
IMO

Nietzsche = the man (see Mine Animals!)
Heidegger = a silly nazi (what I read of his I could see was influenced by Nietzsche... But I didn't think it was as well put AND I thought that some of his analysis of language was bogus)
Sarte = a silly Frenchie (denies that he has animals)

At 7/6/2010 10:47:31 PM, annhasle wrote:
Well, I'm reading the "Antichrist" by Nietzsche right now... he is brilliant. I've read more about nihilism than existentialism by him though. But I do find his ideas very persuasive in both fields.

I think Nietzsche would strongly object to being called a Nihilist.

I never called Nietzsche a Nihilist. I said some of his works did contribute to the Nihilist ideal. Where did I call him a Nihilist?
I'm not back. This idiot just upset me which made me stop lurking.
Freeman
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7/7/2010 8:34:54 AM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 7/6/2010 10:47:31 PM, annhasle wrote:
At 7/6/2010 10:26:10 PM, GeoLaureate8 wrote:
Are there any Existentialist here and who is your favorite Existentialist philosopher?

It's surprising that not too many identify as such or talk about it, despite the fact that much of the great philosophers were Existentialists (Kierkegaard, Heidegger, Sartre, Camus, Nietzsche, Marcel, and Jaspers).

And what is your take on the core concept in Existentialism of "Existence precedes essense."


Well, I'm reading the "Antichrist" by Nietzsche right now... he is brilliant. I've read more about nihilism than existentialism by him though. But I do find his ideas very persuasive in both fields.

The core concept I do agree with since, in my mind, it just seems like logic. The essence of a person cannot occur until they have existed. When a human is born, they have no predetermined value or content, really.That is built over time and with experiences. Yes, that is over simplified for the core concept of such an extensive philosophy such as existentialism but... it just seems to be best put as simply as that.:D

No way... I just started reading it yesterday. Nietzsche is unlike anyone I've ever read.
Chancellor of Propaganda and Foreign Relations in the Franklin administration.

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Vi_Veri
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7/7/2010 8:37:28 AM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 7/7/2010 8:34:54 AM, Freeman wrote:
At 7/6/2010 10:47:31 PM, annhasle wrote:
At 7/6/2010 10:26:10 PM, GeoLaureate8 wrote:
Are there any Existentialist here and who is your favorite Existentialist philosopher?

It's surprising that not too many identify as such or talk about it, despite the fact that much of the great philosophers were Existentialists (Kierkegaard, Heidegger, Sartre, Camus, Nietzsche, Marcel, and Jaspers).

And what is your take on the core concept in Existentialism of "Existence precedes essense."


Well, I'm reading the "Antichrist" by Nietzsche right now... he is brilliant. I've read more about nihilism than existentialism by him though. But I do find his ideas very persuasive in both fields.

The core concept I do agree with since, in my mind, it just seems like logic. The essence of a person cannot occur until they have existed. When a human is born, they have no predetermined value or content, really.That is built over time and with experiences. Yes, that is over simplified for the core concept of such an extensive philosophy such as existentialism but... it just seems to be best put as simply as that.:D

No way... I just started reading it yesterday. Nietzsche is unlike anyone I've ever read.

The Anti-Christ is a beautifully written body of work. You'll enjoy it :)
I could give a f about no haters as long as my ishes love me.
Valtarov
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7/7/2010 9:13:31 AM
Posted: 6 years ago
Kierkegaard has long intrigued me. While I don't agree with him on some things, his views on the Christian religion are pretty spot-on.

Also, Viktor Frankl all they way! Existential psychology owns.

Nietzsche has a surprising number of good quotes, considering his stance on the issues.
"We are half-hearted creatures,
fooling about with drink and sex and
ambition when infinite joy is offered us,
like an ignorant child who wants to go on
making mud pies in a slum because he
cannot imagine what is meant by the offer
of a holiday at the sea. We are far too easily
pleased."—C.S. Lewis, "The Weight of Glory"