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cjl
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7/8/2010 2:45:58 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
Are you a Christian if you are not baptized? I feel so, but is it right to say it if you are not baptized?

What do you guys think?
InsertNameHere
Posts: 15,699
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7/8/2010 2:50:32 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
I'm pretty sure one can be considered a Christian even if they're not baptized. i think you pretty much need to accept Jesus as your saviour. I'm sure there's probably some sects that have baptism as a requirement though.
cjl
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7/8/2010 2:51:59 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 7/8/2010 2:50:32 PM, InsertNameHere wrote:
I'm pretty sure one can be considered a Christian even if they're not baptized. i think you pretty much need to accept Jesus as your saviour. I'm sure there's probably some sects that have baptism as a requirement though.

But can I call myself such if I am not baptized?
innomen
Posts: 10,052
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7/8/2010 2:54:14 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 7/8/2010 2:51:59 PM, cjl wrote:
At 7/8/2010 2:50:32 PM, InsertNameHere wrote:
I'm pretty sure one can be considered a Christian even if they're not baptized. i think you pretty much need to accept Jesus as your saviour. I'm sure there's probably some sects that have baptism as a requirement though.

But can I call myself such if I am not baptized?

Accept Christ as your savior you are a Christian period the end. No need of dogmatic rituals, unless you like them.
Marauder
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7/8/2010 3:09:03 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 7/8/2010 2:51:59 PM, cjl wrote:
At 7/8/2010 2:50:32 PM, InsertNameHere wrote:
I'm pretty sure one can be considered a Christian even if they're not baptized. i think you pretty much need to accept Jesus as your saviour. I'm sure there's probably some sects that have baptism as a requirement though.

But can I call myself such if I am not baptized?

If you call yourself a christian; go get baptized and not concern yourself with "do I have to though" Get baptized if for no other reason than the fact that Jesus was baptized too. but understand its an outward sign of an inward change, the blood is what washes you clean not the water.
One act of Rebellion created all the darkness and evil in the world; One life of Total Obedience created a path back to eternity and God.

A Scout is Obedient.
Marauder
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7/8/2010 3:10:57 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 7/8/2010 2:54:14 PM, innomen wrote:
At 7/8/2010 2:51:59 PM, cjl wrote:
At 7/8/2010 2:50:32 PM, InsertNameHere wrote:
I'm pretty sure one can be considered a Christian even if they're not baptized. i think you pretty much need to accept Jesus as your saviour. I'm sure there's probably some sects that have baptism as a requirement though.

But can I call myself such if I am not baptized?

Accept Christ as your savior you are a Christian period the end. No need of dogmatic rituals, unless you like them.

as a boy scout I can tell you rituals are very much worth doing. you can only benifit from participating in them, haveing the scouts participate in them. you wont be sorry you did it.
One act of Rebellion created all the darkness and evil in the world; One life of Total Obedience created a path back to eternity and God.

A Scout is Obedient.
FREEDO
Posts: 21,057
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7/8/2010 3:13:22 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
"The like figure whereunto even baptism does now save us."

~ I Peter 3:21

"He who believes and is baptized will be saved."

~ Mark 16:16
GRAND POOBAH OF DDO

fnord
Marauder
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7/8/2010 3:17:04 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
you know communion is often stressed as important as baptizing is in legitimizing the fact that you are now part of the body of Christ, a saved person.
One act of Rebellion created all the darkness and evil in the world; One life of Total Obedience created a path back to eternity and God.

A Scout is Obedient.
GeoLaureate8
Posts: 12,252
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7/8/2010 3:25:28 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 7/8/2010 3:13:22 PM, FREEDO wrote:
"The like figure whereunto even baptism does now save us."

~ I Peter 3:21

"He who believes and is baptized will be saved."

~ Mark 16:16

Win.

Thread over.
"We must raise the standard of the Old, free, decentralized, and strictly limited Republic."
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InquireTruth
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7/8/2010 4:22:36 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
If by baptism you are referring to bodily immersion in water, then no, it is not necessary. Immersion in water is but a symbol of what should have already occurred. The Thief on the cross did nothing more than ask Jesus to remember him when Jesus told him, "Today I will see you in paradise." Whatever saved that thief was a matter of the heart and not ceremony.

Paul asks this question to the Galatians, "Did you receive the Spirit by observing the law, or by believing what you heard?" John 7:37-39 teaches us that the Spirit is given to those who believe. Moreover, Ephesians 1:13-14, 2 Corinthians 1:22 and Ephesians 4:30 all teach that the Holy Spirit is our guarantee of salvation.

The Baptism of repentance (ie John's baptism) is one of repentance and refers to water. Jesus' baptism, the one that saves you, refers the spirit. This is why John said, "I baptize you with water. But one more powerful than I will come, the thongs of whose sandals I am not worthy to untie. He will baptize you with the Holy Spirit and with fire."
tvellalott
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7/8/2010 4:33:29 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
I think you have to be baptised to be Catholic.. Can anyone confirm?
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Marauder
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7/8/2010 4:36:17 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 7/8/2010 4:22:36 PM, InquireTruth wrote:
If by baptism you are referring to bodily immersion in water, then no, it is not necessary. Immersion in water is but a symbol of what should have already occurred. The Thief on the cross did nothing more than ask Jesus to remember him when Jesus told him, "Today I will see you in paradise." Whatever saved that thief was a matter of the heart and not ceremony.

well, about the thief on the cross. I myself have used him as an example to refute the notion that you require any application of water, but it was later pointed out to me that it rained that day before Jesus Died, and presumably the thief too.

also its been argued that because his set of circumstances were uniquely extreme, they dont apply to use unless equally extreme, witch could be taken as strictly as 'just converted, about to die in a few moment, not in control of situation or in position to make request to those who are, and jesus is write next to me.'

should I be asked on judgement day 'why were you not baptized?' and respond 'I thought that didnt matter, the thief on the cross wasnt...' and be interupted by the comment sense coming from gods mouth 'that christian had an excuse, you do not, in fact, you had ample time to go get baptized, and ample opportunities put right in front of your face.' so I am forced to say "well I didnt want to get wet" and god says "because you fear water more than I, You shall never have to fear water again for their is none in hell"
So then I am like "wait, I also didnt want to draw attaintion to myself, you know like the Pharisees" and gods like 'know one thinks your a pharisee for getting baptized, that may be the stupidest thing I ever heard, now I send you to hell just for shear stupidity"

now of-course, God would not talk like that at all, but it would be funny if he did.
One act of Rebellion created all the darkness and evil in the world; One life of Total Obedience created a path back to eternity and God.

A Scout is Obedient.
Marauder
Posts: 3,271
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7/8/2010 4:36:50 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 7/8/2010 4:33:29 PM, tvellalott wrote:
I think you have to be baptised to be Catholic.. Can anyone confirm?

yes, and have taken communion.
One act of Rebellion created all the darkness and evil in the world; One life of Total Obedience created a path back to eternity and God.

A Scout is Obedient.
InsertNameHere
Posts: 15,699
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7/8/2010 4:39:49 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 7/8/2010 4:36:50 PM, Marauder wrote:
At 7/8/2010 4:33:29 PM, tvellalott wrote:
I think you have to be baptised to be Catholic.. Can anyone confirm?

yes, and have taken communion.

Yea, you do. My best friend was raised Catholic. She had to go through all that.
InquireTruth
Posts: 723
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7/8/2010 4:52:46 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
but it was later pointed out to me that it rained that day before Jesus Died

In what Gospel, pray tell?

also its been argued that because his set of circumstances were uniquely extreme

Then it shows that baptism was never really necessary at all and truly not something for which salvation is contingent. Water baptism is a mere outward symbol of an inward change - this is demonstrated by the thief on the cross. If the extremity of the situation changed the requirements for salvation than we have a God who is inconsistent with his nature.
cjl
Posts: 1,073
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7/8/2010 4:56:03 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 7/8/2010 4:52:46 PM, InquireTruth wrote:
but it was later pointed out to me that it rained that day before Jesus Died

In what Gospel, pray tell?

also its been argued that because his set of circumstances were uniquely extreme

Then it shows that baptism was never really necessary at all and truly not something for which salvation is contingent. Water baptism is a mere outward symbol of an inward change - this is demonstrated by the thief on the cross. If the extremity of the situation changed the requirements for salvation than we have a God who is inconsistent with his nature.

Whatever the case, I hope he loves me. I really need Him now. Life is killing me,literally.
Marauder
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7/8/2010 4:59:38 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 7/8/2010 4:52:46 PM, InquireTruth wrote:
but it was later pointed out to me that it rained that day before Jesus Died

In what Gospel, pray tell?

after looking it up I stand corrected http://wiki.answers.com... they must have filled in the blanks with what made the sky dark (rain clouds)

also its been argued that because his set of circumstances were uniquely extreme

Then it shows that baptism was never really necessary at all and truly not something for which salvation is contingent. Water baptism is a mere outward symbol of an inward change - this is demonstrated by the thief on the cross. If the extremity of the situation changed the requirements for salvation than we have a God who is inconsistent with his nature.

How so? surely a change in circumstances would change what you call justice for it? and God is just, so to be consistently just he's ways would need to addapt to whatever that is for each situation.
One act of Rebellion created all the darkness and evil in the world; One life of Total Obedience created a path back to eternity and God.

A Scout is Obedient.
Marauder
Posts: 3,271
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7/8/2010 5:00:25 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 7/8/2010 4:56:03 PM, cjl wrote:
At 7/8/2010 4:52:46 PM, InquireTruth wrote:
but it was later pointed out to me that it rained that day before Jesus Died

In what Gospel, pray tell?

also its been argued that because his set of circumstances were uniquely extreme

Then it shows that baptism was never really necessary at all and truly not something for which salvation is contingent. Water baptism is a mere outward symbol of an inward change - this is demonstrated by the thief on the cross. If the extremity of the situation changed the requirements for salvation than we have a God who is inconsistent with his nature.

Whatever the case, I hope he loves me. I really need Him now. Life is killing me,literally.

yes he does love you, but get baptized anyway. theirs no reason not to.
One act of Rebellion created all the darkness and evil in the world; One life of Total Obedience created a path back to eternity and God.

A Scout is Obedient.
InquireTruth
Posts: 723
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7/8/2010 5:01:06 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 7/8/2010 4:56:03 PM, cjl wrote:
At 7/8/2010 4:52:46 PM, InquireTruth wrote:
but it was later pointed out to me that it rained that day before Jesus Died

In what Gospel, pray tell?

also its been argued that because his set of circumstances were uniquely extreme

Then it shows that baptism was never really necessary at all and truly not something for which salvation is contingent. Water baptism is a mere outward symbol of an inward change - this is demonstrated by the thief on the cross. If the extremity of the situation changed the requirements for salvation than we have a God who is inconsistent with his nature.

Whatever the case, I hope he loves me. I really need Him now. Life is killing me,literally.

For I am convinced that neither death nor life, neither angels nor demons,[a] neither the present nor the future, nor any powers, 39neither height nor depth, nor anything else in all creation, will be able to separate us from the love of God that is in Christ Jesus our Lord.
cjl
Posts: 1,073
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7/8/2010 5:01:24 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 7/8/2010 5:00:25 PM, Marauder wrote:
At 7/8/2010 4:56:03 PM, cjl wrote:
At 7/8/2010 4:52:46 PM, InquireTruth wrote:
but it was later pointed out to me that it rained that day before Jesus Died

In what Gospel, pray tell?

also its been argued that because his set of circumstances were uniquely extreme

Then it shows that baptism was never really necessary at all and truly not something for which salvation is contingent. Water baptism is a mere outward symbol of an inward change - this is demonstrated by the thief on the cross. If the extremity of the situation changed the requirements for salvation than we have a God who is inconsistent with his nature.

Whatever the case, I hope he loves me. I really need Him now. Life is killing me,literally.

yes he does love you, but get baptized anyway. theirs no reason not to.

No. I do not need to prove to anyone or thing that I love God.
InquireTruth
Posts: 723
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7/8/2010 5:06:33 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
How so?

Because if he was saved apart from Baptism that means, quite clearly, that salvation is not contingent upon it. Moreover, if a God changed his requirements in order to fit individual circumstances, then we have no objective requirements for salvation and a God who plays favorites. That means that you are saying that baptism is not ACTUALLY necessary, only that it is subjectively necessary.
lovelife
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7/8/2010 5:34:00 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 7/8/2010 2:45:58 PM, cjl wrote:
Are you a Christian if you are not baptized? I feel so, but is it right to say it if you are not baptized?

What do you guys think?

I believe so. I don't like the way some churches opperate by baptizing children too young to understand the symbolism.

Looking in a christian point of veiw wouldn't it be safe to say that God loves you for you? And if you really regret sins you have done does that not make you saved?
The baptism is really just symbolism.
Without Royal there is a hole inside of me, I have no choice but to leave
Valtarov
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7/8/2010 9:22:48 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
That doesn't mean that the symbolism isn't important. It's sacramental. It is a literal washing as well as a symbolic one. If you start by saying,"I will do only the bare minimum to be saved, and I will reject all else as meaningless", then you set up the standard based upon yourself, not God.
"We are half-hearted creatures,
fooling about with drink and sex and
ambition when infinite joy is offered us,
like an ignorant child who wants to go on
making mud pies in a slum because he
cannot imagine what is meant by the offer
of a holiday at the sea. We are far too easily
pleased."—C.S. Lewis, "The Weight of Glory"
lovelife
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7/8/2010 9:33:04 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 7/8/2010 9:22:48 PM, Valtarov wrote:
That doesn't mean that the symbolism isn't important. It's sacramental. It is a literal washing as well as a symbolic one. If you start by saying,"I will do only the bare minimum to be saved, and I will reject all else as meaningless", then you set up the standard based upon yourself, not God.

I'm not saying just ignore it. Its symbolic, but symbolism has its place. You can't say someones going to Hell just because they haven't been baptized (well you can say it, doesn't make sense and I don't see why anyone would believe it)

And speaking of this I do have a question, what happens if someone dennies the existance of God, but does everything right. Like volunteer, don't live a "bad" life, don't hurt others, sincerely regret the mistakes they make in their life and try to do better.
Do they burn for just not believing, or is doing the right thing what God is concerned about. Its easy for believers to want to to avoid to consequence, but does it way in that atheists, do it just because its right (even the things that are not illegal)?

Just wondering on what different christians thought, and I'm hesitant to make a thread. (tho I know I should)
Without Royal there is a hole inside of me, I have no choice but to leave
tvellalott
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7/8/2010 9:37:18 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 7/8/2010 9:33:04 PM, lovelife wrote:

Just wondering on what different christians thought, and I'm hesitant to make a thread. (tho I know I should)

Do it. It's a great topic.
"Caitlyn Jenner is an incredibly brave and stunningly beautiful woman."

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cjl
Posts: 1,073
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7/9/2010 6:29:09 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 7/8/2010 9:37:18 PM, tvellalott wrote:
At 7/8/2010 9:33:04 PM, lovelife wrote:

Just wondering on what different christians thought, and I'm hesitant to make a thread. (tho I know I should)

Do it. It's a great topic.

Agreed.
Marauder
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7/11/2010 5:57:50 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 7/8/2010 5:01:24 PM, cjl wrote:
At 7/8/2010 5:00:25 PM, Marauder wrote:
At 7/8/2010 4:56:03 PM, cjl wrote:
At 7/8/2010 4:52:46 PM, InquireTruth wrote:
but it was later pointed out to me that it rained that day before Jesus Died

In what Gospel, pray tell?

also its been argued that because his set of circumstances were uniquely extreme

Then it shows that baptism was never really necessary at all and truly not something for which salvation is contingent. Water baptism is a mere outward symbol of an inward change - this is demonstrated by the thief on the cross. If the extremity of the situation changed the requirements for salvation than we have a God who is inconsistent with his nature.

Whatever the case, I hope he loves me. I really need Him now. Life is killing me,literally.

yes he does love you, but get baptized anyway. theirs no reason not to.

No. I do not need to prove to anyone or thing that I love God.

Your not 'proving' anything to anyone by getting baptised, http://www.biblegateway.com... you doing an act of love towards you brothers in the body of Christ (read scripture in link to understand how that principal applies in this case) and generally doing something good for your own spiritual growth. I can give you million reasons why baptism is a good decision, I cant think of one why its bad for you, so get off you high horse and stop worrying about what other people think of you and get baptized. I promise you wont look back and think 'I'm sorry I did that'
One act of Rebellion created all the darkness and evil in the world; One life of Total Obedience created a path back to eternity and God.

A Scout is Obedient.
tvellalott
Posts: 10,864
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7/11/2010 5:59:00 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 7/11/2010 5:57:50 PM, Marauder wrote:
At 7/8/2010 5:01:24 PM, cjl wrote:
At 7/8/2010 5:00:25 PM, Marauder wrote:
At 7/8/2010 4:56:03 PM, cjl wrote:
At 7/8/2010 4:52:46 PM, InquireTruth wrote:
but it was later pointed out to me that it rained that day before Jesus Died

In what Gospel, pray tell?

also its been argued that because his set of circumstances were uniquely extreme

Then it shows that baptism was never really necessary at all and truly not something for which salvation is contingent. Water baptism is a mere outward symbol of an inward change - this is demonstrated by the thief on the cross. If the extremity of the situation changed the requirements for salvation than we have a God who is inconsistent with his nature.

Whatever the case, I hope he loves me. I really need Him now. Life is killing me,literally.

yes he does love you, but get baptized anyway. theirs no reason not to.

No. I do not need to prove to anyone or thing that I love God.

Your not 'proving' anything to anyone by getting baptised, http://www.biblegateway.com... you doing an act of love towards you brothers in the body of Christ (read scripture in link to understand how that principal applies in this case) and generally doing something good for your own spiritual growth. I can give you million reasons why baptism is a good decision, I cant think of one why its bad for you, so get off you high horse and stop worrying about what other people think of you and get baptized. I promise you wont look back and think 'I'm sorry I did that'

Do you have to pay to be baptised?
"Caitlyn Jenner is an incredibly brave and stunningly beautiful woman."

Muh threads
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GeoLaureate8
Posts: 12,252
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7/11/2010 6:01:18 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 7/11/2010 5:59:00 PM, tvellalott wrote:
Do you have to pay to be baptised?

Yes, my sister's baptismal was $200.
"We must raise the standard of the Old, free, decentralized, and strictly limited Republic."
-- Murray Rothbard

"The worst thing that can happen to a good cause is, not to be skillfully attacked, but to be ineptly defended."
-- Frederic Bastiat