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Christians behaving badly!

JJ50
Posts: 2,144
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2/12/2015 5:49:11 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
Of course there are very many Christians in this world who do a lot of good and are decent, honourable people. I know quite a number including members of my family. However, the faith is brought into disrepute by those who behave badly by their words and deeds.

Over the years I have met some 'born agains' who talk the talk telling people they must be 'saved' or else, yet their lives are far from beyond reproach, cheating on their partners, and their business dealings are less than honest. The oh so holy married pastor at the Pentecostal church I attended as a child, would stroke my thigh inappropriately when driving me home from the mid week youth meeting, when I was 14. He would tell me how beautiful my mother was! A church elder described in yucky detail, what he would like to do with my mother in his hayloft!

On the religious forums I have posted on over the years, including this one, I have been shocked by some of the nastiness displayed by some Christians. The hateful bigotry towards people of other races and cultures, and homosexuals, beggars belief. They rant on at atheists and agnostics about their lack of belief, totally oblivious of the flipping great beams sticking out of their own eyes! One can only assume that they think once saved, always saved', will get them into heaven whatever they do thereafter!

In my opinion, there is no point in having a faith unless it makes you a better person and you try to help others along the way, which many do of course.

I am far from perfect myself, I don't deny it. But it does rile me when some Christians threaten me with hell and damnation, when their lives leave a lot to be desired!
EtrnlVw
Posts: 2,307
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2/12/2015 6:03:14 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
2 simple pieces of advise...

1- Don't put any reliance on man including Christians, you will be let down, man is not your anchor.

2- You shouldn't judge Christianity based on what people do.

Not that you do these things but it's just a rule of thumb.
Ragnar
Posts: 1,658
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2/12/2015 9:18:15 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 2/12/2015 6:03:14 AM, EtrnlVw wrote:
2- You shouldn't judge Christianity based on what people do.

How else can it be judged?
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ethang5
Posts: 4,104
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2/12/2015 9:22:57 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 2/12/2015 9:18:15 AM, Ragnar wrote:
At 2/12/2015 6:03:14 AM, EtrnlVw wrote:
2- You shouldn't judge Christianity based on what people do.

How else can it be judged?

By what the bible says.
Ragnar
Posts: 1,658
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2/12/2015 9:32:27 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 2/12/2015 9:22:57 AM, ethang5 wrote:
At 2/12/2015 9:18:15 AM, Ragnar wrote:
At 2/12/2015 6:03:14 AM, EtrnlVw wrote:
2- You shouldn't judge Christianity based on what people do.

How else can it be judged?

By what the bible says.

Ignoring what the Bible inspires, sounds like an awful standard. One very similar to judging someone based on what they say, instead of what they do.
Unofficial DDO Guide: http://goo.gl...
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ethang5
Posts: 4,104
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2/12/2015 9:59:14 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 2/12/2015 9:32:27 AM, Ragnar wrote:
At 2/12/2015 9:22:57 AM, ethang5 wrote:
At 2/12/2015 9:18:15 AM, Ragnar wrote:
At 2/12/2015 6:03:14 AM, EtrnlVw wrote:

2- You shouldn't judge Christianity based on what people do.

How else can it be judged?

By what the bible says.

Ignoring what the Bible inspires, sounds like an awful standard. One very similar to judging someone based on what they say, instead of what they do.

The original statement was "You shouldn't judge Christianity based on what people do. He did not say Christians, but Christianity.

Christianity is not a person but a doctrine. The only way to judge a doctrine is by what it says. The only source of Christian doctrine is the Bible.

I agree that people should be judged on what they do.
Ragnar
Posts: 1,658
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2/12/2015 10:08:37 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 2/12/2015 9:59:14 AM, ethang5 wrote:
At 2/12/2015 9:32:27 AM, Ragnar wrote:
At 2/12/2015 9:22:57 AM, ethang5 wrote:
At 2/12/2015 9:18:15 AM, Ragnar wrote:
At 2/12/2015 6:03:14 AM, EtrnlVw wrote:

2- You shouldn't judge Christianity based on what people do.

How else can it be judged?

By what the bible says.

Ignoring what the Bible inspires, sounds like an awful standard. One very similar to judging someone based on what they say, instead of what they do.

The original statement was "You shouldn't judge Christianity based on what people do. He did not say Christians, but Christianity.

Christianity is not a person but a doctrine. The only way to judge a doctrine is by what it says. The only source of Christian doctrine is the Bible.

I agree that people should be judged on what they do.

Is there any point to the doctrine at all, if not to inspire people to take certain actions?
Unofficial DDO Guide: http://goo.gl...
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Voting Standards: https://goo.gl...

And please disable Smart-Quotes: https://goo.gl...
ethang5
Posts: 4,104
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2/12/2015 10:19:45 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 2/12/2015 10:08:37 AM, Ragnar wrote:
At 2/12/2015 9:59:14 AM, ethang5 wrote:
At 2/12/2015 9:32:27 AM, Ragnar wrote:
At 2/12/2015 9:22:57 AM, ethang5 wrote:
At 2/12/2015 9:18:15 AM, Ragnar wrote:
At 2/12/2015 6:03:14 AM, EtrnlVw wrote:

2- You shouldn't judge Christianity based on what people do.

How else can it be judged?

By what the bible says.

Ignoring what the Bible inspires, sounds like an awful standard. One very similar to judging someone based on what they say, instead of what they do.

The original statement was "You shouldn't judge Christianity based on what people do. He did not say Christians, but Christianity.

Christianity is not a person but a doctrine. The only way to judge a doctrine is by what it says. The only source of Christian doctrine is the Bible.

I agree that people should be judged on what they do.

Is there any point to the doctrine at all, if not to inspire people to take certain actions?

That is a different topic to the one being discussed. If my answer to the question is satisfactory to you, then we are done. If it isn't, please say why.

Do you have a better way to judge doctrines than what the doctrine says?
Unconditional_Love
Posts: 18
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2/12/2015 10:21:32 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 2/12/2015 9:59:14 AM, ethang5 wrote:
At 2/12/2015 9:32:27 AM, Ragnar wrote:
At 2/12/2015 9:22:57 AM, ethang5 wrote:
At 2/12/2015 9:18:15 AM, Ragnar wrote:
At 2/12/2015 6:03:14 AM, EtrnlVw wrote:

2- You shouldn't judge Christianity based on what people do.

How else can it be judged?

By what the bible says.

Ignoring what the Bible inspires, sounds like an awful standard. One very similar to judging someone based on what they say, instead of what they do.

no it doesnt. lets say someone built a chair, their design of the chair is to suit the purpose of sitting. Then someone who used that chair not for its intentions such as standing on it to fix something they cold not reach, then they fall. Would that be the fault of the designer or would it be the fault of the one who used it differently than it was designed? In your aproximation it would seem you would indicate the latter. Which makes no sense to me.

The original statement was "You shouldn't judge Christianity based on what people do. He did not say Christians, but Christianity.

Christianity is not a person but a doctrine. The only way to judge a doctrine is by what it says. The only source of Christian doctrine is the Bible.

I agree that people should be judged on what they do.

Your arguing about words here imo. I think he said it well in that a lot of people judge Christianity based the experience they have had with so called Christians. He is saying simply that Christianity is based on the bible and if you use the example of so called Christians than you are judging their interpretation of a book and that would not be correctly judging The Bible for what it says but judging the bible on what they think it says.
Harikrish
Posts: 11,009
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2/12/2015 10:22:34 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 2/12/2015 9:59:14 AM, ethang5 wrote:
At 2/12/2015 9:32:27 AM, Ragnar wrote:
At 2/12/2015 9:22:57 AM, ethang5 wrote:
At 2/12/2015 9:18:15 AM, Ragnar wrote:
At 2/12/2015 6:03:14 AM, EtrnlVw wrote:

2- You shouldn't judge Christianity based on what people do.

How else can it be judged?

By what the bible says.

Ignoring what the Bible inspires, sounds like an awful standard. One very similar to judging someone based on what they say, instead of what they do.

The original statement was "You shouldn't judge Christianity based on what people do. He did not say Christians, but Christianity.

Christianity is not a person but a doctrine. The only way to judge a doctrine is by what it says. The only source of Christian doctrine is the Bible.

I agree that people should be judged on what they do.

It is hard to judge Christians by what they do because most of what they do are not by their own volition or free will. They do it out of Christian indoctrination and out of fear.
The bible can be used to justify any action. It was used to justify slavery, the killing of infidels/Gentiles and suppression of women and minorities etc.etc.
Christians may not behave badly but what they represent or stand for is worse than their outwardly behaviour. Jesus was a liar and lunatic. He was tried, convicted and put to death for blasphemy. Christians have exalted this delusional character to the status of God. Christians are more unreasonable than their behaviour suggests.
ethang5
Posts: 4,104
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2/12/2015 10:38:24 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 2/12/2015 10:22:34 AM, Harikrish wrote:
At 2/12/2015 9:59:14 AM, ethang5 wrote:
At 2/12/2015 9:32:27 AM, Ragnar wrote:
At 2/12/2015 9:22:57 AM, ethang5 wrote:
At 2/12/2015 9:18:15 AM, Ragnar wrote:
At 2/12/2015 6:03:14 AM, EtrnlVw wrote:

2- You shouldn't judge Christianity based on what people do.

How else can it be judged?

By what the bible says.

Ignoring what the Bible inspires, sounds like an awful standard. One very similar to judging someone based on what they say, instead of what they do.

The original statement was "You shouldn't judge Christianity based on what people do. He did not say Christians, but Christianity.

Christianity is not a person but a doctrine. The only way to judge a doctrine is by what it says. The only source of Christian doctrine is the Bible.

I agree that people should be judged on what they do.

It is hard to judge Christians by what they do because most of what they do are not by their own volition or free will. They do it out of Christian indoctrination and out of fear.
The bible can be used to justify any action. It was used to justify slavery, the killing of infidels/Gentiles and suppression of women and minorities etc.etc.
Christians may not behave badly but what they represent or stand for is worse than their outwardly behaviour. Jesus was a liar and lunatic. He was tried, convicted and put to death for blasphemy. Christians have exalted this delusional character to the status of God. Christians are more unreasonable than their behaviour suggests.

Before anyone gets sucked into this flame bait, harikrishna is a troll who has a compulsion for flames. Check his profile, you will see that he has posted this exact post more than 20 times to various threads. He seems to have cut and paste texts which he posts to threads without regard to the actual topic at hand.

My guess is that he has an appointment with airmax looming in his future. Feed him at your own risk.
DanneJeRusse
Posts: 12,623
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2/12/2015 10:40:37 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 2/12/2015 10:38:24 AM, ethang5 wrote:
At 2/12/2015 10:22:34 AM, Harikrish wrote:
At 2/12/2015 9:59:14 AM, ethang5 wrote:
At 2/12/2015 9:32:27 AM, Ragnar wrote:
At 2/12/2015 9:22:57 AM, ethang5 wrote:
At 2/12/2015 9:18:15 AM, Ragnar wrote:
At 2/12/2015 6:03:14 AM, EtrnlVw wrote:

2- You shouldn't judge Christianity based on what people do.

How else can it be judged?

By what the bible says.

Ignoring what the Bible inspires, sounds like an awful standard. One very similar to judging someone based on what they say, instead of what they do.

The original statement was "You shouldn't judge Christianity based on what people do. He did not say Christians, but Christianity.

Christianity is not a person but a doctrine. The only way to judge a doctrine is by what it says. The only source of Christian doctrine is the Bible.

I agree that people should be judged on what they do.

It is hard to judge Christians by what they do because most of what they do are not by their own volition or free will. They do it out of Christian indoctrination and out of fear.
The bible can be used to justify any action. It was used to justify slavery, the killing of infidels/Gentiles and suppression of women and minorities etc.etc.
Christians may not behave badly but what they represent or stand for is worse than their outwardly behaviour. Jesus was a liar and lunatic. He was tried, convicted and put to death for blasphemy. Christians have exalted this delusional character to the status of God. Christians are more unreasonable than their behaviour suggests.

Before anyone gets sucked into this flame bait, harikrishna is a troll who has a compulsion for flames. Check his profile, you will see that he has posted this exact post more than 20 times to various threads. He seems to have cut and paste texts which he posts to threads without regard to the actual topic at hand.

In other words, you're incapable of addressing his posts so you label him a troll?
Marrying a 6 year old and waiting until she reaches puberty and maturity before having consensual sex is better than walking up to
a stranger in a bar and proceeding to have relations with no valid proof of the intent of the person. Muhammad wins. ~ Fatihah
If they don't want to be killed then they have to subdue to the Islamic laws. - Uncung
Without God, you are lower than sh!t. ~ SpiritandTruth
bulproof
Posts: 25,249
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2/12/2015 10:40:44 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 2/12/2015 10:38:24 AM, ethang5 wrote:
At 2/12/2015 10:22:34 AM, Harikrish wrote:
At 2/12/2015 9:59:14 AM, ethang5 wrote:
At 2/12/2015 9:32:27 AM, Ragnar wrote:
At 2/12/2015 9:22:57 AM, ethang5 wrote:
At 2/12/2015 9:18:15 AM, Ragnar wrote:
At 2/12/2015 6:03:14 AM, EtrnlVw wrote:

2- You shouldn't judge Christianity based on what people do.

How else can it be judged?

By what the bible says.

Ignoring what the Bible inspires, sounds like an awful standard. One very similar to judging someone based on what they say, instead of what they do.

The original statement was "You shouldn't judge Christianity based on what people do. He did not say Christians, but Christianity.

Christianity is not a person but a doctrine. The only way to judge a doctrine is by what it says. The only source of Christian doctrine is the Bible.

I agree that people should be judged on what they do.

It is hard to judge Christians by what they do because most of what they do are not by their own volition or free will. They do it out of Christian indoctrination and out of fear.
The bible can be used to justify any action. It was used to justify slavery, the killing of infidels/Gentiles and suppression of women and minorities etc.etc.
Christians may not behave badly but what they represent or stand for is worse than their outwardly behaviour. Jesus was a liar and lunatic. He was tried, convicted and put to death for blasphemy. Christians have exalted this delusional character to the status of God. Christians are more unreasonable than their behaviour suggests.

Before anyone gets sucked into this flame bait, harikrishna is a troll who has a compulsion for flames. Check his profile, you will see that he has posted this exact post more than 20 times to various threads. He seems to have cut and paste texts which he posts to threads without regard to the actual topic at hand.

My guess is that he has an appointment with airmax looming in his future. Feed him at your own risk.

Poor little diddums. :)
Religion is just mind control. George Carlin
Harikrish
Posts: 11,009
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2/12/2015 10:43:59 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 2/12/2015 10:38:24 AM, ethang5 wrote:
At 2/12/2015 10:22:34 AM, Harikrish wrote:
At 2/12/2015 9:59:14 AM, ethang5 wrote:
At 2/12/2015 9:32:27 AM, Ragnar wrote:
At 2/12/2015 9:22:57 AM, ethang5 wrote:
At 2/12/2015 9:18:15 AM, Ragnar wrote:
At 2/12/2015 6:03:14 AM, EtrnlVw wrote:

2- You shouldn't judge Christianity based on what people do.

How else can it be judged?

By what the bible says.

Ignoring what the Bible inspires, sounds like an awful standard. One very similar to judging someone based on what they say, instead of what they do.

The original statement was "You shouldn't judge Christianity based on what people do. He did not say Christians, but Christianity.

Christianity is not a person but a doctrine. The only way to judge a doctrine is by what it says. The only source of Christian doctrine is the Bible.

I agree that people should be judged on what they do.

It is hard to judge Christians by what they do because most of what they do are not by their own volition or free will. They do it out of Christian indoctrination and out of fear.
The bible can be used to justify any action. It was used to justify slavery, the killing of infidels/Gentiles and suppression of women and minorities etc.etc.
Christians may not behave badly but what they represent or stand for is worse than their outwardly behaviour. Jesus was a liar and lunatic. He was tried, convicted and put to death for blasphemy. Christians have exalted this delusional character to the status of God. Christians are more unreasonable than their behaviour suggests.

Before anyone gets sucked into this flame bait, harikrishna is a troll who has a compulsion for flames. Check his profile, you will see that he has posted this exact post more than 20 times to various threads. He seems to have cut and paste texts which he posts to threads without regard to the actual topic at hand.

My guess is that he has an appointment with airmax looming in his future. Feed him at your own risk.

Appeal to authority. A fundies knee bending reaction.
ethang5
Posts: 4,104
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2/12/2015 11:03:13 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 2/12/2015 10:40:37 AM, DanneJeRusse wrote:
At 2/12/2015 10:38:24 AM, ethang5 wrote:
At 2/12/2015 10:22:34 AM, Harikrish wrote:
At 2/12/2015 9:59:14 AM, ethang5 wrote:
At 2/12/2015 9:32:27 AM, Ragnar wrote:
At 2/12/2015 9:22:57 AM, ethang5 wrote:
At 2/12/2015 9:18:15 AM, Ragnar wrote:
At 2/12/2015 6:03:14 AM, EtrnlVw wrote:

2- You shouldn't judge Christianity based on what people do.

How else can it be judged?

By what the bible says.

Ignoring what the Bible inspires, sounds like an awful standard. One very similar to judging someone based on what they say, instead of what they do.

The original statement was "You shouldn't judge Christianity based on what people do. He did not say Christians, but Christianity.

Christianity is not a person but a doctrine. The only way to judge a doctrine is by what it says. The only source of Christian doctrine is the Bible.

I agree that people should be judged on what they do.

It is hard to judge Christians by what they do because most of what they do are not by their own volition or free will. They do it out of Christian indoctrination and out of fear.
The bible can be used to justify any action. It was used to justify slavery, the killing of infidels/Gentiles and suppression of women and minorities etc.etc.
Christians may not behave badly but what they represent or stand for is worse than their outwardly behaviour. Jesus was a liar and lunatic. He was tried, convicted and put to death for blasphemy. Christians have exalted this delusional character to the status of God. Christians are more unreasonable than their behaviour suggests.

Before anyone gets sucked into this flame bait, harikrishna is a troll who has a compulsion for flames. Check his profile, you will see that he has posted this exact post more than 20 times to various threads. He seems to have cut and paste texts which he posts to threads without regard to the actual topic at hand.


In other words, you're incapable of addressing his posts so you label him a troll?

So ignore that he post off topic trash, does multiple posts of the exact same thing to the same threads, posts flame baits, and has 50% of his post be drive bys? And the only "reason" you can come up with is that I'm incapable of addressing his posts?

You surely aren't the poster-boy for objectivity.

If you think his drivel is intellectually worthy, you comment on it. I have already told him he needs more style before I will grace him with a post of mine. Regurgitating flame bait like an atheist AI bot is not worthy of me.

Hi bully! Have you moved back under the bridge yet or is harikrishna still there?
DanneJeRusse
Posts: 12,623
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2/12/2015 11:12:02 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 2/12/2015 11:03:13 AM, ethang5 wrote:
At 2/12/2015 10:40:37 AM, DanneJeRusse wrote:
At 2/12/2015 10:38:24 AM, ethang5 wrote:
At 2/12/2015 10:22:34 AM, Harikrish wrote:
At 2/12/2015 9:59:14 AM, ethang5 wrote:
At 2/12/2015 9:32:27 AM, Ragnar wrote:
At 2/12/2015 9:22:57 AM, ethang5 wrote:
At 2/12/2015 9:18:15 AM, Ragnar wrote:
At 2/12/2015 6:03:14 AM, EtrnlVw wrote:

2- You shouldn't judge Christianity based on what people do.

How else can it be judged?

By what the bible says.

Ignoring what the Bible inspires, sounds like an awful standard. One very similar to judging someone based on what they say, instead of what they do.

The original statement was "You shouldn't judge Christianity based on what people do. He did not say Christians, but Christianity.

Christianity is not a person but a doctrine. The only way to judge a doctrine is by what it says. The only source of Christian doctrine is the Bible.

I agree that people should be judged on what they do.

It is hard to judge Christians by what they do because most of what they do are not by their own volition or free will. They do it out of Christian indoctrination and out of fear.
The bible can be used to justify any action. It was used to justify slavery, the killing of infidels/Gentiles and suppression of women and minorities etc.etc.
Christians may not behave badly but what they represent or stand for is worse than their outwardly behaviour. Jesus was a liar and lunatic. He was tried, convicted and put to death for blasphemy. Christians have exalted this delusional character to the status of God. Christians are more unreasonable than their behaviour suggests.

Before anyone gets sucked into this flame bait, harikrishna is a troll who has a compulsion for flames. Check his profile, you will see that he has posted this exact post more than 20 times to various threads. He seems to have cut and paste texts which he posts to threads without regard to the actual topic at hand.


In other words, you're incapable of addressing his posts so you label him a troll?

So ignore that he post off topic trash, does multiple posts of the exact same thing to the same threads, posts flame baits, and has 50% of his post be drive bys? And the only "reason" you can come up with is that I'm incapable of addressing his posts?

Yes, you are incapable of addressing his posts.

You surely aren't the poster-boy for objectivity.

The fact you're incapable of addressing his posts has nothing to do with me.

If you think his drivel is intellectually worthy, you comment on it. I have already told him he needs more style before I will grace him with a post of mine. Regurgitating flame bait like an atheist AI bot is not worthy of me.

Thank you for admitting you are incapable of addressing his post.

Hi bully! Have you moved back under the bridge yet or is harikrishna still there?

That would be more evidence you're not capable.
Marrying a 6 year old and waiting until she reaches puberty and maturity before having consensual sex is better than walking up to
a stranger in a bar and proceeding to have relations with no valid proof of the intent of the person. Muhammad wins. ~ Fatihah
If they don't want to be killed then they have to subdue to the Islamic laws. - Uncung
Without God, you are lower than sh!t. ~ SpiritandTruth
Ragnar
Posts: 1,658
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2/12/2015 11:19:10 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 2/12/2015 10:19:45 AM, ethang5 wrote:
At 2/12/2015 10:08:37 AM, Ragnar wrote:
At 2/12/2015 9:59:14 AM, ethang5 wrote:
At 2/12/2015 9:32:27 AM, Ragnar wrote:
At 2/12/2015 9:22:57 AM, ethang5 wrote:
At 2/12/2015 9:18:15 AM, Ragnar wrote:
At 2/12/2015 6:03:14 AM, EtrnlVw wrote:

2- You shouldn't judge Christianity based on what people do.

How else can it be judged?

By what the bible says.

Ignoring what the Bible inspires, sounds like an awful standard. One very similar to judging someone based on what they say, instead of what they do.

The original statement was "You shouldn't judge Christianity based on what people do. He did not say Christians, but Christianity.

Christianity is not a person but a doctrine. The only way to judge a doctrine is by what it says. The only source of Christian doctrine is the Bible.

I agree that people should be judged on what they do.

Is there any point to the doctrine at all, if not to inspire people to take certain actions?

That is a different topic to the one being discussed. If my answer to the question is satisfactory to you, then we are done. If it isn't, please say why.

Do you have a better way to judge doctrines than what the doctrine says?

Better way to judge... Easy, as I already stated: "what the Bible inspires."

To use an analogy, if North Korea indoctrinates their people into believing they are the freest most happy people on the planet, my standard would be to judge them based on their quality of life, instead of what their doctrine claims their quality of life is.

Of course if there is no relation to what someone believes and what they do, than there is no use to them believing anything at all. Which would make Christianity (or any other doctrine) useless. However if Christianity does inspire actions from Christians, than it is a part of this topic.
Unofficial DDO Guide: http://goo.gl...
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Voting Standards: https://goo.gl...

And please disable Smart-Quotes: https://goo.gl...
Harikrish
Posts: 11,009
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2/12/2015 11:33:36 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 2/12/2015 11:03:13 AM, ethang5 wrote:
At 2/12/2015 10:40:37 AM, DanneJeRusse wrote:
At 2/12/2015 10:38:24 AM, ethang5 wrote:
At 2/12/2015 10:22:34 AM, Harikrish wrote:
At 2/12/2015 9:59:14 AM, ethang5 wrote:
At 2/12/2015 9:32:27 AM, Ragnar wrote:
At 2/12/2015 9:22:57 AM, ethang5 wrote:
At 2/12/2015 9:18:15 AM, Ragnar wrote:
At 2/12/2015 6:03:14 AM, EtrnlVw wrote:

2- You shouldn't judge Christianity based on what people do.

How else can it be judged?

By what the bible says.

Ignoring what the Bible inspires, sounds like an awful standard. One very similar to judging someone based on what they say, instead of what they do.

The original statement was "You shouldn't judge Christianity based on what people do. He did not say Christians, but Christianity.

Christianity is not a person but a doctrine. The only way to judge a doctrine is by what it says. The only source of Christian doctrine is the Bible.

I agree that people should be judged on what they do.

It is hard to judge Christians by what they do because most of what they do are not by their own volition or free will. They do it out of Christian indoctrination and out of fear.
The bible can be used to justify any action. It was used to justify slavery, the killing of infidels/Gentiles and suppression of women and minorities etc.etc.
Christians may not behave badly but what they represent or stand for is worse than their outwardly behaviour. Jesus was a liar and lunatic. He was tried, convicted and put to death for blasphemy. Christians have exalted this delusional character to the status of God. Christians are more unreasonable than their behaviour suggests.

Before anyone gets sucked into this flame bait, harikrishna is a troll who has a compulsion for flames. Check his profile, you will see that he has posted this exact post more than 20 times to various threads. He seems to have cut and paste texts which he posts to threads without regard to the actual topic at hand.


In other words, you're incapable of addressing his posts so you label him a troll?

So ignore that he post off topic trash, does multiple posts of the exact same thing to the same threads, posts flame baits, and has 50% of his post be drive bys? And the only "reason" you can come up with is that I'm incapable of addressing his posts?

You surely aren't the poster-boy for objectivity.

If you think his drivel is intellectually worthy, you comment on it. I have already told him he needs more style before I will grace him with a post of mine. Regurgitating flame bait like an atheist AI bot is not worthy of me.

Hi bully! Have you moved back under the bridge yet or is harikrishna still there?

I am a Vedantist raised in the Vedantic tradition, a Hindu by birth. I started to post on Christian forums to share what was revealed to me from reading the inspired word of God as found in the bible. I was using my training in esoteric scriptures such as the Vedas to shed light on the controversies and contradictions in the bible. I was appreciated for the large volume of work I had done as a student of comparative religion in Christian theology and Islamic fundamentalism. I come with a deep understand of all scriptures and a universal congenial personality that is enduring to people who are seeking the truth.
But I have had my share of detractors and the truth has cut both ways. Many were not prepared for my esoteric approach and others overwhelmed by my Harikrish devotion to the truth. But I remain true to the essence of my being. To help people improve their current lives or make their next life better. Namaste to all.
ethang5
Posts: 4,104
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2/12/2015 11:52:52 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 2/12/2015 11:12:02 AM, DanneJeRusse wrote:
At 2/12/2015 11:03:13 AM, ethang5 wrote:
At 2/12/2015 10:40:37 AM, DanneJeRusse wrote:
At 2/12/2015 10:38:24 AM, ethang5 wrote:
At 2/12/2015 10:22:34 AM, Harikrish wrote:
At 2/12/2015 9:59:14 AM, ethang5 wrote:
At 2/12/2015 9:32:27 AM, Ragnar wrote:
At 2/12/2015 9:22:57 AM, ethang5 wrote:
At 2/12/2015 9:18:15 AM, Ragnar wrote:
At 2/12/2015 6:03:14 AM, EtrnlVw wrote:

2- You shouldn't judge Christianity based on what people do.

How else can it be judged?

By what the bible says.

Ignoring what the Bible inspires, sounds like an awful standard. One very similar to judging someone based on what they say, instead of what they do.

The original statement was "You shouldn't judge Christianity based on what people do. He did not say Christians, but Christianity.

Christianity is not a person but a doctrine. The only way to judge a doctrine is by what it says. The only source of Christian doctrine is the Bible.

I agree that people should be judged on what they do.

It is hard to judge Christians by what they do because most of what they do are not by their own volition or free will. They do it out of Christian indoctrination and out of fear.
The bible can be used to justify any action. It was used to justify slavery, the killing of infidels/Gentiles and suppression of women and minorities etc.etc.
Christians may not behave badly but what they represent or stand for is worse than their outwardly behaviour. Jesus was a liar and lunatic. He was tried, convicted and put to death for blasphemy. Christians have exalted this delusional character to the status of God. Christians are more unreasonable than their behaviour suggests.

Before anyone gets sucked into this flame bait, harikrishna is a troll who has a compulsion for flames. Check his profile, you will see that he has posted this exact post more than 20 times to various threads. He seems to have cut and paste texts which he posts to threads without regard to the actual topic at hand.


In other words, you're incapable of addressing his posts so you label him a troll?

So ignore that he post off topic trash, does multiple posts of the exact same thing to the same threads, posts flame baits, and has 50% of his post be drive bys? And the only "reason" you can come up with is that I'm incapable of addressing his posts?

Yes, you are incapable of addressing his posts.

You surely aren't the poster-boy for objectivity.

The fact you're incapable of addressing his posts has nothing to do with me.

If you think his drivel is intellectually worthy, you comment on it. I have already told him he needs more style before I will grace him with a post of mine. Regurgitating flame bait like an atheist AI bot is not worthy of me.

Thank you for admitting you are incapable of addressing his post.

Hi bully! Have you moved back under the bridge yet or is harikrishna still there?

That would be more evidence you're not capable.

uh huh.

Ethan don't goad.
bornofgod
Posts: 11,322
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2/12/2015 11:59:01 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 2/12/2015 5:49:11 AM, JJ50 wrote:
Of course there are very many Christians in this world who do a lot of good and are decent, honourable people. I know quite a number including members of my family. However, the faith is brought into disrepute by those who behave badly by their words and deeds.

Over the years I have met some 'born agains' who talk the talk telling people they must be 'saved' or else, yet their lives are far from beyond reproach, cheating on their partners, and their business dealings are less than honest. The oh so holy married pastor at the Pentecostal church I attended as a child, would stroke my thigh inappropriately when driving me home from the mid week youth meeting, when I was 14. He would tell me how beautiful my mother was! A church elder described in yucky detail, what he would like to do with my mother in his hayloft!

On the religious forums I have posted on over the years, including this one, I have been shocked by some of the nastiness displayed by some Christians. The hateful bigotry towards people of other races and cultures, and homosexuals, beggars belief. They rant on at atheists and agnostics about their lack of belief, totally oblivious of the flipping great beams sticking out of their own eyes! One can only assume that they think once saved, always saved', will get them into heaven whatever they do thereafter!

In my opinion, there is no point in having a faith unless it makes you a better person and you try to help others along the way, which many do of course.

I am far from perfect myself, I don't deny it. But it does rile me when some Christians threaten me with hell and damnation, when their lives leave a lot to be desired!

Not one Christian or Jew understands this prophecy;

Daniel 2:
36: "This was the dream; now we will tell the king its interpretation.
37: You, O king, the king of kings, to whom the God of heaven has given the kingdom, the power, and the might, and the glory,
38: and into whose hand he has given, wherever they dwell, the sons of men, the beasts of the field, and the birds of the air, making you rule over them all -- you are the head of gold.
39: After you shall arise another kingdom inferior to you, and yet a third kingdom of bronze, which shall rule over all the earth.
40: And there shall be a fourth kingdom, strong as iron, because iron breaks to pieces and shatters all things; and like iron which crushes, it shall break and crush all these.
41: And as you saw the feet and toes partly of potter's clay and partly of iron, it shall be a divided kingdom; but some of the firmness of iron shall be in it, just as you saw iron mixed with the miry clay.
42: And as the toes of the feet were partly iron and partly clay, so the kingdom shall be partly strong and partly brittle.
43: As you saw the iron mixed with miry clay, so they will mix with one another in marriage, but they will not hold together, just as iron does not mix with clay.
44: And in the days of those kings the God of heaven will set up a kingdom which shall never be destroyed, nor shall its sovereignty be left to another people. It shall break in pieces all these kingdoms and bring them to an end, and it shall stand for ever;
45: just as you saw that a stone was cut from a mountain by no human hand, and that it broke in pieces the iron, the bronze, the clay, the silver, and the gold. A great God has made known to the king what shall be hereafter. The dream is certain, and its interpretation sure."

If they did understand this prophecy, they would no longer admit they're involved in Christianity ( feet of iron and clay ).
ethang5
Posts: 4,104
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2/12/2015 12:10:11 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 2/12/2015 11:19:10 AM, Ragnar wrote:
At 2/12/2015 10:19:45 AM, ethang5 wrote:

2- You shouldn't judge Christianity based on what people do.

How else can it be judged?

By what the bible says.

Ignoring what the Bible inspires, sounds like an awful standard. One very similar to judging someone based on what they say, instead of what they do.

The original statement was "You shouldn't judge Christianity based on what people do. He did not say Christians, but Christianity.

Christianity is not a person but a doctrine. The only way to judge a doctrine is by what it says. The only source of Christian doctrine is the Bible.

I agree that people should be judged on what they do.

Is there any point to the doctrine at all, if not to inspire people to take certain actions?

That is a different topic to the one being discussed. If my answer to the question is satisfactory to you, then we are done. If it isn't, please say why.

Do you have a better way to judge doctrines than what the doctrine says?

Better way to judge... Easy, as I already stated: "what the Bible inspires."

Sure, you think that is a better way. But the earlier analogy of the designed chair shows the shortcomings of your way. Plus, different people react differently. Some people may not even be reacting to the Bible but something else they associate with it. Personally I think you want to use "What the Bible inspires" for self-serving reasons.

To use an analogy, if North Korea indoctrinates their people into believing they are the freest most happy people on the planet, my standard would be to judge them based on their quality of life, instead of what their doctrine claims their quality of life is.

That isn't rational, because the North Koreans are not practicing a religion, and are not living a doctrine. Some doctrines value poverty, how would such a doctrine fare if you used your subjective "quality of life" standard?

Of course if there is no relation to what someone believes and what they do, than there is no use to them believing anything at all. Which would make Christianity (or any other doctrine) useless.

I did not say there was no relation. But there being a relation does not mean that it is the most fair way to judge a doctrine. This is why you have crafted the weird, "What Christianity inspires" rather than the more obvious, what Christians do. So that anyone NOT following the doctrine actually adds to the count of what Christianity inspires. Shady accounting.

If that strikes you as fair or logical I will have a much better bead on your intent.

However if Christianity does inspire actions from Christians, than it is a part of this topic.

No Sir. People are complex, and their motives and interactions even more. How would you know which of their inspirations was from Christianity and which was not? Nope, all you've done here a try to devise a way to discredit Christianity while seeming objective.

But it's a free country, there is no law requiring you to be ethical.
Harikrish
Posts: 11,009
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2/12/2015 12:20:17 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 2/12/2015 11:59:01 AM, bornofgod wrote:
At 2/12/2015 5:49:11 AM, JJ50 wrote:
Of course there are very many Christians in this world who do a lot of good and are decent, honourable people. I know quite a number including members of my family. However, the faith is brought into disrepute by those who behave badly by their words and deeds.

Over the years I have met some 'born agains' who talk the talk telling people they must be 'saved' or else, yet their lives are far from beyond reproach, cheating on their partners, and their business dealings are less than honest. The oh so holy married pastor at the Pentecostal church I attended as a child, would stroke my thigh inappropriately when driving me home from the mid week youth meeting, when I was 14. He would tell me how beautiful my mother was! A church elder described in yucky detail, what he would like to do with my mother in his hayloft!

On the religious forums I have posted on over the years, including this one, I have been shocked by some of the nastiness displayed by some Christians. The hateful bigotry towards people of other races and cultures, and homosexuals, beggars belief. They rant on at atheists and agnostics about their lack of belief, totally oblivious of the flipping great beams sticking out of their own eyes! One can only assume that they think once saved, always saved', will get them into heaven whatever they do thereafter!

In my opinion, there is no point in having a faith unless it makes you a better person and you try to help others along the way, which many do of course.

I am far from perfect myself, I don't deny it. But it does rile me when some Christians threaten me with hell and damnation, when their lives leave a lot to be desired!

Not one Christian or Jew understands this prophecy;

Daniel 2:
36: "This was the dream; now we will tell the king its interpretation.
37: You, O king, the king of kings, to whom the God of heaven has given the kingdom, the power, and the might, and the glory,
38: and into whose hand he has given, wherever they dwell, the sons of men, the beasts of the field, and the birds of the air, making you rule over them all -- you are the head of gold.
39: After you shall arise another kingdom inferior to you, and yet a third kingdom of bronze, which shall rule over all the earth.
40: And there shall be a fourth kingdom, strong as iron, because iron breaks to pieces and shatters all things; and like iron which crushes, it shall break and crush all these.
41: And as you saw the feet and toes partly of potter's clay and partly of iron, it shall be a divided kingdom; but some of the firmness of iron shall be in it, just as you saw iron mixed with the miry clay.
42: And as the toes of the feet were partly iron and partly clay, so the kingdom shall be partly strong and partly brittle.
43: As you saw the iron mixed with miry clay, so they will mix with one another in marriage, but they will not hold together, just as iron does not mix with clay.
44: And in the days of those kings the God of heaven will set up a kingdom which shall never be destroyed, nor shall its sovereignty be left to another people. It shall break in pieces all these kingdoms and bring them to an end, and it shall stand for ever;
45: just as you saw that a stone was cut from a mountain by no human hand, and that it broke in pieces the iron, the bronze, the clay, the silver, and the gold. A great God has made known to the king what shall be hereafter. The dream is certain, and its interpretation sure."

If they did understand this prophecy, they would no longer admit they're involved in Christianity ( feet of iron and clay ).

A lot of lazy people like to tackle Daniel and revelations because studying the entire bible is too cumbersome. But without the required background it is not possible to interpret what appeared as dreams and apocalyptic visions to the prophets. Every interpretation has turned out wrong. Daniel was himself an interpreter of dreams and later claimed to have visions of his own. By dealing with the delusional he became deluded himself.
Stick to Freud's interpretation of dreams. They are all repressed sexual fantasies. Get laid if you want to stop those recurring nightmares.
bornofgod
Posts: 11,322
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2/12/2015 12:27:15 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 2/12/2015 12:20:17 PM, Harikrish wrote:
At 2/12/2015 11:59:01 AM, bornofgod wrote:
At 2/12/2015 5:49:11 AM, JJ50 wrote:
Of course there are very many Christians in this world who do a lot of good and are decent, honourable people. I know quite a number including members of my family. However, the faith is brought into disrepute by those who behave badly by their words and deeds.

Over the years I have met some 'born agains' who talk the talk telling people they must be 'saved' or else, yet their lives are far from beyond reproach, cheating on their partners, and their business dealings are less than honest. The oh so holy married pastor at the Pentecostal church I attended as a child, would stroke my thigh inappropriately when driving me home from the mid week youth meeting, when I was 14. He would tell me how beautiful my mother was! A church elder described in yucky detail, what he would like to do with my mother in his hayloft!

On the religious forums I have posted on over the years, including this one, I have been shocked by some of the nastiness displayed by some Christians. The hateful bigotry towards people of other races and cultures, and homosexuals, beggars belief. They rant on at atheists and agnostics about their lack of belief, totally oblivious of the flipping great beams sticking out of their own eyes! One can only assume that they think once saved, always saved', will get them into heaven whatever they do thereafter!

In my opinion, there is no point in having a faith unless it makes you a better person and you try to help others along the way, which many do of course.

I am far from perfect myself, I don't deny it. But it does rile me when some Christians threaten me with hell and damnation, when their lives leave a lot to be desired!

Not one Christian or Jew understands this prophecy;

Daniel 2:
36: "This was the dream; now we will tell the king its interpretation.
37: You, O king, the king of kings, to whom the God of heaven has given the kingdom, the power, and the might, and the glory,
38: and into whose hand he has given, wherever they dwell, the sons of men, the beasts of the field, and the birds of the air, making you rule over them all -- you are the head of gold.
39: After you shall arise another kingdom inferior to you, and yet a third kingdom of bronze, which shall rule over all the earth.
40: And there shall be a fourth kingdom, strong as iron, because iron breaks to pieces and shatters all things; and like iron which crushes, it shall break and crush all these.
41: And as you saw the feet and toes partly of potter's clay and partly of iron, it shall be a divided kingdom; but some of the firmness of iron shall be in it, just as you saw iron mixed with the miry clay.
42: And as the toes of the feet were partly iron and partly clay, so the kingdom shall be partly strong and partly brittle.
43: As you saw the iron mixed with miry clay, so they will mix with one another in marriage, but they will not hold together, just as iron does not mix with clay.
44: And in the days of those kings the God of heaven will set up a kingdom which shall never be destroyed, nor shall its sovereignty be left to another people. It shall break in pieces all these kingdoms and bring them to an end, and it shall stand for ever;
45: just as you saw that a stone was cut from a mountain by no human hand, and that it broke in pieces the iron, the bronze, the clay, the silver, and the gold. A great God has made known to the king what shall be hereafter. The dream is certain, and its interpretation sure."

If they did understand this prophecy, they would no longer admit they're involved in Christianity ( feet of iron and clay ).

A lot of lazy people like to tackle Daniel and revelations because studying the entire bible is too cumbersome. But without the required background it is not possible to interpret what appeared as dreams and apocalyptic visions to the prophets. Every interpretation has turned out wrong. Daniel was himself an interpreter of dreams and later claimed to have visions of his own. By dealing with the delusional he became deluded himself.
Stick to Freud's interpretation of dreams. They are all repressed sexual fantasies. Get laid if you want to stop those recurring nightmares.

I didn't have to interpret any prophecies. Our Creator created me as His knowledge so the knowledge I possess is where all prophecies originated.
Harikrish
Posts: 11,009
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2/12/2015 12:34:39 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 2/12/2015 12:27:15 PM, bornofgod wrote:
At 2/12/2015 12:20:17 PM, Harikrish wrote:
At 2/12/2015 11:59:01 AM, bornofgod wrote:
At 2/12/2015 5:49:11 AM, JJ50 wrote:
Of course there are very many Christians in this world who do a lot of good and are decent, honourable people. I know quite a number including members of my family. However, the faith is brought into disrepute by those who behave badly by their words and deeds.

Over the years I have met some 'born agains' who talk the talk telling people they must be 'saved' or else, yet their lives are far from beyond reproach, cheating on their partners, and their business dealings are less than honest. The oh so holy married pastor at the Pentecostal church I attended as a child, would stroke my thigh inappropriately when driving me home from the mid week youth meeting, when I was 14. He would tell me how beautiful my mother was! A church elder described in yucky detail, what he would like to do with my mother in his hayloft!

On the religious forums I have posted on over the years, including this one, I have been shocked by some of the nastiness displayed by some Christians. The hateful bigotry towards people of other races and cultures, and homosexuals, beggars belief. They rant on at atheists and agnostics about their lack of belief, totally oblivious of the flipping great beams sticking out of their own eyes! One can only assume that they think once saved, always saved', will get them into heaven whatever they do thereafter!

In my opinion, there is no point in having a faith unless it makes you a better person and you try to help others along the way, which many do of course.

I am far from perfect myself, I don't deny it. But it does rile me when some Christians threaten me with hell and damnation, when their lives leave a lot to be desired!

Not one Christian or Jew understands this prophecy;

Daniel 2:
36: "This was the dream; now we will tell the king its interpretation.
37: You, O king, the king of kings, to whom the God of heaven has given the kingdom, the power, and the might, and the glory,
38: and into whose hand he has given, wherever they dwell, the sons of men, the beasts of the field, and the birds of the air, making you rule over them all -- you are the head of gold.
39: After you shall arise another kingdom inferior to you, and yet a third kingdom of bronze, which shall rule over all the earth.
40: And there shall be a fourth kingdom, strong as iron, because iron breaks to pieces and shatters all things; and like iron which crushes, it shall break and crush all these.
41: And as you saw the feet and toes partly of potter's clay and partly of iron, it shall be a divided kingdom; but some of the firmness of iron shall be in it, just as you saw iron mixed with the miry clay.
42: And as the toes of the feet were partly iron and partly clay, so the kingdom shall be partly strong and partly brittle.
43: As you saw the iron mixed with miry clay, so they will mix with one another in marriage, but they will not hold together, just as iron does not mix with clay.
44: And in the days of those kings the God of heaven will set up a kingdom which shall never be destroyed, nor shall its sovereignty be left to another people. It shall break in pieces all these kingdoms and bring them to an end, and it shall stand for ever;
45: just as you saw that a stone was cut from a mountain by no human hand, and that it broke in pieces the iron, the bronze, the clay, the silver, and the gold. A great God has made known to the king what shall be hereafter. The dream is certain, and its interpretation sure."

If they did understand this prophecy, they would no longer admit they're involved in Christianity ( feet of iron and clay ).

A lot of lazy people like to tackle Daniel and revelations because studying the entire bible is too cumbersome. But without the required background it is not possible to interpret what appeared as dreams and apocalyptic visions to the prophets. Every interpretation has turned out wrong. Daniel was himself an interpreter of dreams and later claimed to have visions of his own. By dealing with the delusional he became deluded himself.
Stick to Freud's interpretation of dreams. They are all repressed sexual fantasies. Get laid if you want to stop those recurring nightmares.

I didn't have to interpret any prophecies. Our Creator created me as His knowledge so the knowledge I possess is where all prophecies originated.

It took you 29 years to sober up. Your brains are too fried to contain any knowledge. And neither are you getting it from God because by your own admission God does not talk to sinners or saints. Try a different line....you got busted!!!

You wrote: "No one outside his chosen people will ever hear from God directly. So you're a liar and not only doesn't he speak to sinners, he doesn't speak to his saints. We speak for him."
bornofgod
Posts: 11,322
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2/12/2015 12:37:36 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 2/12/2015 12:34:39 PM, Harikrish wrote:
At 2/12/2015 12:27:15 PM, bornofgod wrote:
At 2/12/2015 12:20:17 PM, Harikrish wrote:
At 2/12/2015 11:59:01 AM, bornofgod wrote:
At 2/12/2015 5:49:11 AM, JJ50 wrote:
Of course there are very many Christians in this world who do a lot of good and are decent, honourable people. I know quite a number including members of my family. However, the faith is brought into disrepute by those who behave badly by their words and deeds.

Over the years I have met some 'born agains' who talk the talk telling people they must be 'saved' or else, yet their lives are far from beyond reproach, cheating on their partners, and their business dealings are less than honest. The oh so holy married pastor at the Pentecostal church I attended as a child, would stroke my thigh inappropriately when driving me home from the mid week youth meeting, when I was 14. He would tell me how beautiful my mother was! A church elder described in yucky detail, what he would like to do with my mother in his hayloft!

On the religious forums I have posted on over the years, including this one, I have been shocked by some of the nastiness displayed by some Christians. The hateful bigotry towards people of other races and cultures, and homosexuals, beggars belief. They rant on at atheists and agnostics about their lack of belief, totally oblivious of the flipping great beams sticking out of their own eyes! One can only assume that they think once saved, always saved', will get them into heaven whatever they do thereafter!

In my opinion, there is no point in having a faith unless it makes you a better person and you try to help others along the way, which many do of course.

I am far from perfect myself, I don't deny it. But it does rile me when some Christians threaten me with hell and damnation, when their lives leave a lot to be desired!

Not one Christian or Jew understands this prophecy;

Daniel 2:
36: "This was the dream; now we will tell the king its interpretation.
37: You, O king, the king of kings, to whom the God of heaven has given the kingdom, the power, and the might, and the glory,
38: and into whose hand he has given, wherever they dwell, the sons of men, the beasts of the field, and the birds of the air, making you rule over them all -- you are the head of gold.
39: After you shall arise another kingdom inferior to you, and yet a third kingdom of bronze, which shall rule over all the earth.
40: And there shall be a fourth kingdom, strong as iron, because iron breaks to pieces and shatters all things; and like iron which crushes, it shall break and crush all these.
41: And as you saw the feet and toes partly of potter's clay and partly of iron, it shall be a divided kingdom; but some of the firmness of iron shall be in it, just as you saw iron mixed with the miry clay.
42: And as the toes of the feet were partly iron and partly clay, so the kingdom shall be partly strong and partly brittle.
43: As you saw the iron mixed with miry clay, so they will mix with one another in marriage, but they will not hold together, just as iron does not mix with clay.
44: And in the days of those kings the God of heaven will set up a kingdom which shall never be destroyed, nor shall its sovereignty be left to another people. It shall break in pieces all these kingdoms and bring them to an end, and it shall stand for ever;
45: just as you saw that a stone was cut from a mountain by no human hand, and that it broke in pieces the iron, the bronze, the clay, the silver, and the gold. A great God has made known to the king what shall be hereafter. The dream is certain, and its interpretation sure."

If they did understand this prophecy, they would no longer admit they're involved in Christianity ( feet of iron and clay ).

A lot of lazy people like to tackle Daniel and revelations because studying the entire bible is too cumbersome. But without the required background it is not possible to interpret what appeared as dreams and apocalyptic visions to the prophets. Every interpretation has turned out wrong. Daniel was himself an interpreter of dreams and later claimed to have visions of his own. By dealing with the delusional he became deluded himself.
Stick to Freud's interpretation of dreams. They are all repressed sexual fantasies. Get laid if you want to stop those recurring nightmares.

I didn't have to interpret any prophecies. Our Creator created me as His knowledge so the knowledge I possess is where all prophecies originated.

It took you 29 years to sober up. Your brains are too fried to contain any knowledge. And neither are you getting it from God because by your own admission God does not talk to sinners or saints. Try a different line....you got busted!!!

You wrote: "No one outside his chosen people will ever hear from God directly. So you're a liar and not only doesn't he speak to sinners, he doesn't speak to his saints. We speak for him."

Antichrists like yourself do not listen and learn. I never said it took 29 years for me to sober up. I've been sober ever since I quit drinking on December 13, 1979.

You're not only an antichrist but you're a complete idiot who cannot take in information and process it correctly. You can blame that on our Creator because He's the one who made you an idiot.
Harikrish
Posts: 11,009
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2/12/2015 12:49:54 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 2/12/2015 12:37:36 PM, bornofgod wrote:
At 2/12/2015 12:34:39 PM, Harikrish wrote:
At 2/12/2015 12:27:15 PM, bornofgod wrote:
At 2/12/2015 12:20:17 PM, Harikrish wrote:
At 2/12/2015 11:59:01 AM, bornofgod wrote:
At 2/12/2015 5:49:11 AM, JJ50 wrote:
Of course there are very many Christians in this world who do a lot of good and are decent, honourable people. I know quite a number including members of my family. However, the faith is brought into disrepute by those who behave badly by their words and deeds.

Over the years I have met some 'born agains' who talk the talk telling people they must be 'saved' or else, yet their lives are far from beyond reproach, cheating on their partners, and their business dealings are less than honest. The oh so holy married pastor at the Pentecostal church I attended as a child, would stroke my thigh inappropriately when driving me home from the mid week youth meeting, when I was 14. He would tell me how beautiful my mother was! A church elder described in yucky detail, what he would like to do with my mother in his hayloft!

On the religious forums I have posted on over the years, including this one, I have been shocked by some of the nastiness displayed by some Christians. The hateful bigotry towards people of other races and cultures, and homosexuals, beggars belief. They rant on at atheists and agnostics about their lack of belief, totally oblivious of the flipping great beams sticking out of their own eyes! One can only assume that they think once saved, always saved', will get them into heaven whatever they do thereafter!

In my opinion, there is no point in having a faith unless it makes you a better person and you try to help others along the way, which many do of course.

I am far from perfect myself, I don't deny it. But it does rile me when some Christians threaten me with hell and damnation, when their lives leave a lot to be desired!

Not one Christian or Jew understands this prophecy;

Daniel 2:
36: "This was the dream; now we will tell the king its interpretation.
37: You, O king, the king of kings, to whom the God of heaven has given the kingdom, the power, and the might, and the glory,
38: and into whose hand he has given, wherever they dwell, the sons of men, the beasts of the field, and the birds of the air, making you rule over them all -- you are the head of gold.
39: After you shall arise another kingdom inferior to you, and yet a third kingdom of bronze, which shall rule over all the earth.
40: And there shall be a fourth kingdom, strong as iron, because iron breaks to pieces and shatters all things; and like iron which crushes, it shall break and crush all these.
41: And as you saw the feet and toes partly of potter's clay and partly of iron, it shall be a divided kingdom; but some of the firmness of iron shall be in it, just as you saw iron mixed with the miry clay.
42: And as the toes of the feet were partly iron and partly clay, so the kingdom shall be partly strong and partly brittle.
43: As you saw the iron mixed with miry clay, so they will mix with one another in marriage, but they will not hold together, just as iron does not mix with clay.
44: And in the days of those kings the God of heaven will set up a kingdom which shall never be destroyed, nor shall its sovereignty be left to another people. It shall break in pieces all these kingdoms and bring them to an end, and it shall stand for ever;
45: just as you saw that a stone was cut from a mountain by no human hand, and that it broke in pieces the iron, the bronze, the clay, the silver, and the gold. A great God has made known to the king what shall be hereafter. The dream is certain, and its interpretation sure."

If they did understand this prophecy, they would no longer admit they're involved in Christianity ( feet of iron and clay ).

A lot of lazy people like to tackle Daniel and revelations because studying the entire bible is too cumbersome. But without the required background it is not possible to interpret what appeared as dreams and apocalyptic visions to the prophets. Every interpretation has turned out wrong. Daniel was himself an interpreter of dreams and later claimed to have visions of his own. By dealing with the delusional he became deluded himself.
Stick to Freud's interpretation of dreams. They are all repressed sexual fantasies. Get laid if you want to stop those recurring nightmares.

I didn't have to interpret any prophecies. Our Creator created me as His knowledge so the knowledge I possess is where all prophecies originated.

It took you 29 years to sober up. Your brains are too fried to contain any knowledge. And neither are you getting it from God because by your own admission God does not talk to sinners or saints. Try a different line....you got busted!!!

You wrote: "No one outside his chosen people will ever hear from God directly. So you're a liar and not only doesn't he speak to sinners, he doesn't speak to his saints. We speak for him."

Antichrists like yourself do not listen and learn. I never said it took 29 years for me to sober up. I've been sober ever since I quit drinking on December 13, 1979.

You're not only an antichrist but you're a complete idiot who cannot take in information and process it correctly. You can blame that on our Creator because He's the one who made you an idiot.

Read your own confession. You became aware of God when you were still.an alcoholic. You struggled for 29 years .What would you be struggling from other than alcohol addiction. Your preaching only started in 2008 after God spent 29 years cleaning your sinful alcoholic body. At most you have been off alcohol for 6 years. But bring homeless and losing all your worldly possessions is hardly a move up.

You wrote:"God is nothing but thoughts so there is no evidence of his existence. This is why God chose his people before creation and created them together as the Word. This Word is actually light energy that was needed to take his plans and create everything else according to these plans. I just happen to be one of those he chose. He revealed himself to me on Dec. 8, 1979 while I was still an alcoholic.

It took him 29 more years of giving me many different commands for me to obey. His main objective was to get me sinless through the process of confession, repentance and forgiveness of sins. He actually changes the genetic sin traits to stop the power of sin so he had me on the floor eight different times while he was removing my sins. This caused me great pain and lots of deep crying."
bornofgod
Posts: 11,322
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2/12/2015 12:55:41 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 2/12/2015 12:49:54 PM, Harikrish wrote:
At 2/12/2015 12:37:36 PM, bornofgod wrote:
At 2/12/2015 12:34:39 PM, Harikrish wrote:
At 2/12/2015 12:27:15 PM, bornofgod wrote:
At 2/12/2015 12:20:17 PM, Harikrish wrote:
At 2/12/2015 11:59:01 AM, bornofgod wrote:
At 2/12/2015 5:49:11 AM, JJ50 wrote:
Of course there are very many Christians in this world who do a lot of good and are decent, honourable people. I know quite a number including members of my family. However, the faith is brought into disrepute by those who behave badly by their words and deeds.

Over the years I have met some 'born agains' who talk the talk telling people they must be 'saved' or else, yet their lives are far from beyond reproach, cheating on their partners, and their business dealings are less than honest. The oh so holy married pastor at the Pentecostal church I attended as a child, would stroke my thigh inappropriately when driving me home from the mid week youth meeting, when I was 14. He would tell me how beautiful my mother was! A church elder described in yucky detail, what he would like to do with my mother in his hayloft!

On the religious forums I have posted on over the years, including this one, I have been shocked by some of the nastiness displayed by some Christians. The hateful bigotry towards people of other races and cultures, and homosexuals, beggars belief. They rant on at atheists and agnostics about their lack of belief, totally oblivious of the flipping great beams sticking out of their own eyes! One can only assume that they think once saved, always saved', will get them into heaven whatever they do thereafter!

In my opinion, there is no point in having a faith unless it makes you a better person and you try to help others along the way, which many do of course.

I am far from perfect myself, I don't deny it. But it does rile me when some Christians threaten me with hell and damnation, when their lives leave a lot to be desired!

Not one Christian or Jew understands this prophecy;

Daniel 2:
36: "This was the dream; now we will tell the king its interpretation.
37: You, O king, the king of kings, to whom the God of heaven has given the kingdom, the power, and the might, and the glory,
38: and into whose hand he has given, wherever they dwell, the sons of men, the beasts of the field, and the birds of the air, making you rule over them all -- you are the head of gold.
39: After you shall arise another kingdom inferior to you, and yet a third kingdom of bronze, which shall rule over all the earth.
40: And there shall be a fourth kingdom, strong as iron, because iron breaks to pieces and shatters all things; and like iron which crushes, it shall break and crush all these.
41: And as you saw the feet and toes partly of potter's clay and partly of iron, it shall be a divided kingdom; but some of the firmness of iron shall be in it, just as you saw iron mixed with the miry clay.
42: And as the toes of the feet were partly iron and partly clay, so the kingdom shall be partly strong and partly brittle.
43: As you saw the iron mixed with miry clay, so they will mix with one another in marriage, but they will not hold together, just as iron does not mix with clay.
44: And in the days of those kings the God of heaven will set up a kingdom which shall never be destroyed, nor shall its sovereignty be left to another people. It shall break in pieces all these kingdoms and bring them to an end, and it shall stand for ever;
45: just as you saw that a stone was cut from a mountain by no human hand, and that it broke in pieces the iron, the bronze, the clay, the silver, and the gold. A great God has made known to the king what shall be hereafter. The dream is certain, and its interpretation sure."

If they did understand this prophecy, they would no longer admit they're involved in Christianity ( feet of iron and clay ).

A lot of lazy people like to tackle Daniel and revelations because studying the entire bible is too cumbersome. But without the required background it is not possible to interpret what appeared as dreams and apocalyptic visions to the prophets. Every interpretation has turned out wrong. Daniel was himself an interpreter of dreams and later claimed to have visions of his own. By dealing with the delusional he became deluded himself.
Stick to Freud's interpretation of dreams. They are all repressed sexual fantasies. Get laid if you want to stop those recurring nightmares.

I didn't have to interpret any prophecies. Our Creator created me as His knowledge so the knowledge I possess is where all prophecies originated.

It took you 29 years to sober up. Your brains are too fried to contain any knowledge. And neither are you getting it from God because by your own admission God does not talk to sinners or saints. Try a different line....you got busted!!!

You wrote: "No one outside his chosen people will ever hear from God directly. So you're a liar and not only doesn't he speak to sinners, he doesn't speak to his saints. We speak for him."

Antichrists like yourself do not listen and learn. I never said it took 29 years for me to sober up. I've been sober ever since I quit drinking on December 13, 1979.

You're not only an antichrist but you're a complete idiot who cannot take in information and process it correctly. You can blame that on our Creator because He's the one who made you an idiot.

Read your own confession. You became aware of God when you were still.an alcoholic. You struggled for 29 years .What would you be struggling from other than alcohol addiction. Your preaching only started in 2008 after God spent 29 years cleaning your sinful alcoholic body. At most you have been off alcohol for 6 years. But bring homeless and losing all your worldly possessions is hardly a move up.

You wrote:"God is nothing but thoughts so there is no evidence of his existence. This is why God chose his people before creation and created them together as the Word. This Word is actually light energy that was needed to take his plans and create everything else according to these plans. I just happen to be one of those he chose. He revealed himself to me on Dec. 8, 1979 while I was still an alcoholic.

It took him 29 more years of giving me many different commands for me to obey. His main objective was to get me sinless through the process of confession, repentance and forgiveness of sins. He actually changes the genetic sin traits to stop the power of sin so he had me on the floor eight different times while he was removing my sins. This caused me great pain and lots of deep crying."

You have twisted EVERYTHING I have written and spoken for our Creator. That's typical of what antichrists do and it's why the new testament does not contain any information to learn how God got His saints ready to testify to His Word, which is our created existence. Antichrists wrote and produced the new testament by adding all their own interpretations and Jewish traditions and ideas that go back to the Babylonian days.
LostintheEcho1498
Posts: 234
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2/12/2015 3:51:24 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 2/12/2015 5:49:11 AM, JJ50 wrote:
Of course there are very many Christians in this world who do a lot of good and are decent, honourable people. I know quite a number including members of my family. However, the faith is brought into disrepute by those who behave badly by their words and deeds.

Over the years I have met some 'born agains' who talk the talk telling people they must be 'saved' or else, yet their lives are far from beyond reproach, cheating on their partners, and their business dealings are less than honest. The oh so holy married pastor at the Pentecostal church I attended as a child, would stroke my thigh inappropriately when driving me home from the mid week youth meeting, when I was 14. He would tell me how beautiful my mother was! A church elder described in yucky detail, what he would like to do with my mother in his hayloft!

On the religious forums I have posted on over the years, including this one, I have been shocked by some of the nastiness displayed by some Christians. The hateful bigotry towards people of other races and cultures, and homosexuals, beggars belief. They rant on at atheists and agnostics about their lack of belief, totally oblivious of the flipping great beams sticking out of their own eyes! One can only assume that they think once saved, always saved', will get them into heaven whatever they do thereafter!

In my opinion, there is no point in having a faith unless it makes you a better person and you try to help others along the way, which many do of course.

I am far from perfect myself, I don't deny it. But it does rile me when some Christians threaten me with hell and damnation, when their lives leave a lot to be desired!

I remember a quote that has stuck with me very well explaining this whole concept.

"Standing in a church does not make one a Christian the same way standing in a garage does not make one a car." The idea of someone being "Christian" means they follow the teachings of Christ. If they don't then that means they know what they are and are breaking them. I honestly get irritated by these types of people. Practice what you preach people.
Ragnar
Posts: 1,658
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2/13/2015 2:45:40 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 2/12/2015 12:10:11 PM, ethang5 wrote:
At 2/12/2015 11:19:10 AM, Ragnar wrote:
At 2/12/2015 10:19:45 AM, ethang5 wrote:

2- You shouldn't judge Christianity based on what people do.

How else can it be judged?

By what the bible says.

Ignoring what the Bible inspires, sounds like an awful standard. One very similar to judging someone based on what they say, instead of what they do.

The original statement was "You shouldn't judge Christianity based on what people do. He did not say Christians, but Christianity.

Christianity is not a person but a doctrine. The only way to judge a doctrine is by what it says. The only source of Christian doctrine is the Bible.

I agree that people should be judged on what they do.

Is there any point to the doctrine at all, if not to inspire people to take certain actions?

That is a different topic to the one being discussed. If my answer to the question is satisfactory to you, then we are done. If it isn't, please say why.

Do you have a better way to judge doctrines than what the doctrine says?

Better way to judge... Easy, as I already stated: "what the Bible inspires."

Sure, you think that is a better way. But the earlier analogy of the designed chair shows the shortcomings of your way. Plus, different people react differently. Some people may not even be reacting to the Bible but something else they associate with it. Personally I think you want to use "What the Bible inspires" for self-serving reasons.

This is the first mention you made of a chair. ... And predictably with a shortage of anything intelligent to say, you begin into the random ad hominem attacks, "Personally I think you want to use 'What the Bible inspires' for self-serving reasons."

To use an analogy, if North Korea indoctrinates their people into believing they are the freest most happy people on the planet, my standard would be to judge them based on their quality of life, instead of what their doctrine claims their quality of life is.

That isn't rational, because the North Koreans are not practicing a religion, and are not living a doctrine. Some doctrines value poverty, how would such a doctrine fare if you used your subjective "quality of life" standard?

You chose the word doctrine to define Christianity as not represented by its people, a word which while can be applied to religions, is not based on them. http://www.merriam-webster.com...
Nations seem to fit your word of choice more closely than religions, but you claim it's irrational to say anything other than religions have any 'set of ideas or beliefs that are taught or believed to be true.' Which makes absolutely no sense.

Of course if there is no relation to what someone believes and what they do, than there is no use to them believing anything at all. Which would make Christianity (or any other doctrine) useless.

I did not say there was no relation. But there being a relation does not mean that it is the most fair way to judge a doctrine. This is why you have crafted the weird, "What Christianity inspires" rather than the more obvious, what Christians do. So that anyone NOT following the doctrine actually adds to the count of what Christianity inspires. Shady accounting.

Please scroll up and find even one example of me using any non-Christians in my "shady accounting." If it doesn't exist, than why make claims about it?

If that strikes you as fair or logical I will have a much better bead on your intent.

My intent... Let me put it bluntly, I will never sexually desire you. I know my repeated rejections of you have hurt, but that's why you shouldn't stalk people. The right person for you probably does exist, but I'm not him.

However if Christianity does inspire actions from Christians, than it is a part of this topic.

No Sir. People are complex, and their motives and interactions even more. How would you know which of their inspirations was from Christianity and which was not? Nope, all you've done here a try to devise a way to discredit Christianity while seeming objective.

Generally by using my brain. The same tool responsible for the objective difference in our debating ability (the difference in our ELO is literally 4,694). Were half my brain missing, I could still connect the dots of what activities a church does as a group, to their doctrines: http://www.huffingtonpost.com...

But it's a free country, there is no law requiring you to be ethical.
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Illegalcombatant
Posts: 4,008
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2/13/2015 3:37:33 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 2/12/2015 9:18:15 AM, Ragnar wrote:
At 2/12/2015 6:03:14 AM, EtrnlVw wrote:
2- You shouldn't judge Christianity based on what people do.

How else can it be judged?

I remember Hitchens saying something to the effect I don't attack religion because religious people do something bad in the NAME of religion, that would be too easy. I attack religion cause of it's direct injunctions to do evil.
"Seems like another attempt to insert God into areas our knowledge has yet to penetrate. You figure God would be bigger than the gaps of our ignorance." Drafterman 19/5/12