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Marauder
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7/8/2010 3:37:20 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
recently it was brought up in discousion about how religion would affect your chances to be so debressed you would commit suiced.

now I can post all I want about what I theorize about how a person would come to choose to cut their wrist and bleed tell they turn blue, and what would help change that decision, but I thought of something more productive to get to the bottom of that issues.

I was wondering if they were any former 'Cutters' who did not succeed in killing themselves with accounts on this website. are there any hear, and if you feel secure enough to share, I'd like to know how you came to want suicide in the first place, and why you have changed your mind since.

I don't anticipate many will post on this thread though, as I bet most would find it too personal to share, or maybe even with to not recount the event ever again.

The best thing would be if those who know a cutter and could tell us what they know. that would be good too.
One act of Rebellion created all the darkness and evil in the world; One life of Total Obedience created a path back to eternity and God.

A Scout is Obedient.
Danielle
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7/8/2010 3:44:00 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
Okay, for some reason I knew a bunch of people who cut when we were in HS. I was never one of them, and to this day I don't understand the logic behind their actions. Most of the time I hear "I just wanted to feel something" which doesn't make much sense to me... why not feel an orgasm?

If you feel the need to harm yourself to feel good, why not take drugs? The whole pain thing is still a very foreign concept to me because I am not one of those people who equates pain with pleasure like those who are into S & M. Additionally I've never been depressed to the point where I was desperate to feel anything.

I honestly think experimentation with cutting is just pretty silly and that's why teenagers are probably the ones who partake in this activity the most. One of my friends carved my initials into her leg (wtf?) ... I was disturbed lol not flattered. This could also be sort of like a form of 'branding' for those who can't get tats or something - not sure.

Either way, self-harm is considered a mental disorder so I'm not sure what you're asking. Can religion cure mental disorders? Apparently not lol they just create them ;)
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Danielle
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7/8/2010 3:46:12 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 7/8/2010 3:37:20 PM, Marauder wrote:
The best thing would be if those who know a cutter and could tell us what they know. that would be good too.

Oh.

Well, basically I just tried to talk some sense into them. Depending on their personality and my relationship with them, I took one of several approaches. Either I was like "WTF are you doing, moron?" which worked in many cases - or I was more patient, understanding and considerate. Most importantly I think a dialog just needs to be opened about *why* they're cutting. Once you know why they're cutting, you can figure out where to go from there and how to resolve the problem.
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Marauder
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7/8/2010 3:52:41 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 7/8/2010 3:40:59 PM, InsertNameHere wrote:
I wasn't a cutter, but I used to have suicidal thoughts.

that counts, as suicidal thoughts are whats in the head of cutters, witch I wanted to learn more about.
One act of Rebellion created all the darkness and evil in the world; One life of Total Obedience created a path back to eternity and God.

A Scout is Obedient.
GeoLaureate8
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7/8/2010 3:55:54 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 7/8/2010 3:41:51 PM, FREEDO wrote:
I used to be gravely depressed when I was a Christian.

I wasn't depressed, but fearful and insecure as a Christian.
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I-am-a-panda
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7/8/2010 3:58:44 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 7/8/2010 3:55:54 PM, GeoLaureate8 wrote:
At 7/8/2010 3:41:51 PM, FREEDO wrote:
I used to be gravely depressed when I was a Christian.

I wasn't depressed, but fearful and insecure as a Christian.

Weird, I was never depressed as a Christian, but neither as an Atheist, but I was never a true Christian.
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Marauder
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7/8/2010 3:59:08 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 7/8/2010 3:44:00 PM, theLwerd wrote:

Either way, self-harm is considered a mental disorder so I'm not sure what you're asking. Can religion cure mental disorders? Apparently not lol they just create them ;)

well, if they don't value themselves so much they would cut their wrist, but a dose of religion would teach them they are valued and loved by the all knowing Creator, I would expect that would make for a positive influence on their considering themselves worthless. Its kind of hard to hate yourself if you know someone else loves you, especially someone who knows everything about you.

But from you've told me it seems all the cutters you've met did it because they take pleasure in pain. not anything to do with lack of self worth.
One act of Rebellion created all the darkness and evil in the world; One life of Total Obedience created a path back to eternity and God.

A Scout is Obedient.
Puck
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7/8/2010 3:59:49 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
Self harm basically forms into two forms - there's a social aspect to it or there's a clinical aspect.

Social cutters, will and do cut, usually visibly, for the purposes of group membership. Cliques may form where cutting is acceptable.

The other is more a clinical issue. The research indicates it can form as a means of control in adolescents (pre adolescence too) much like eating disorders can form from that same need. What cutting does is provide a framework where the individual has control of their actions (it's generally secret, generally hidden) that's coupled with a physiological release (cutting or other methods will result in a release of chemicals, of which pain reduction is one giving a slight 'high' effect) - it's thought this is the mechanism for how it can turn addicting. General rule of thumb in clinical setting is the more hidden the cuts/burns etc., are, the more indicative that is of a psychological issue that needs addressing.

As for stats. Around 1/4 - 1/3 of adolescents will be self harm. Slightly higher for females over males. Can continue well into adulthood though numbers tend to drop down.
Danielle
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7/8/2010 4:02:11 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 7/8/2010 3:59:08 PM, Marauder wrote:
well, if they don't value themselves so much they would cut their wrist, but a dose of religion would teach them they are valued and loved by the all knowing Creator, I would expect that would make for a positive influence on their considering themselves worthless. Its kind of hard to hate yourself if you know someone else loves you, especially someone who knows everything about you.

This is very true, and serves as one example of a way in which religion can be helpful. However what if your religion is the source of that contempt? For instance tons of gay Christians have committed suicide over the notion that "God wouldn't love them anymore" simply because of something they couldn't control (like sexuality).

But from you've told me it seems all the cutters you've met did it because they take pleasure in pain. not anything to do with lack of self worth.

Yeah, or other reasons. They may have felt worthless at the time, though I don't see how cutting would solve that or make them somehow worthwhile. If they were depressed because of that worthless feeling, then that's another issue... and it needs addressing, be it through religious or psychological intervention (though I would certainly advocate the latter).
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Danielle
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7/8/2010 4:03:15 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 7/8/2010 3:59:49 PM, Puck wrote:
General rule of thumb in clinical setting is the more hidden the cuts/burns etc., are, the more indicative that is of a psychological issue that needs addressing.

Yes, totally.

As for stats. Around 1/4 - 1/3 of adolescents will be self harm. Slightly higher for females over males. Can continue well into adulthood though numbers tend to drop down.

That's a high number :/
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tvellalott
Posts: 10,864
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7/8/2010 4:04:27 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
I cut a skull into my upper arm once when I was a teenager, but it wasn't because I felt suicidal. Just seemed like a good idea at the time. On the other hand, I was really depressed about 12 months ago and thought about suicide but didn't come close to going through with it and it passed.
I honestly believe that suicide is an easy way out and a weak thing to do.
Even for the most physically and mentally abused people, surely there is a better way? There is always someone out there in a worse situation than you, who finds the strength to carry on in the hope that things will get better.
"God works in mysterious ways..."
"Its all part of Gods plan.."
These kind of attitudes can do as much harm as good. If you think that, you are less likely to take matters into your own hands.
My favourite God related quote is "God helps those who help themselves"

Hmm... I think I went off on a tangent.
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Marauder
Posts: 3,271
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7/8/2010 4:05:11 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 7/8/2010 3:59:49 PM, Puck wrote:
Self harm basically forms into two forms - there's a social aspect to it or there's a clinical aspect.

Social cutters, will and do cut, usually visibly, for the purposes of group membership. Cliques may form where cutting is acceptable.

The other is more a clinical issue. The research indicates it can form as a means of control in adolescents (pre adolescence too) much like eating disorders can form from that same need. What cutting does is provide a framework where the individual has control of their actions (it's generally secret, generally hidden) that's coupled with a physiological release (cutting or other methods will result in a release of chemicals, of which pain reduction is one giving a slight 'high' effect) - it's thought this is the mechanism for how it can turn addicting. General rule of thumb in clinical setting is the more hidden the cuts/burns etc., are, the more indicative that is of a psychological issue that needs addressing.

As for stats. Around 1/4 - 1/3 of adolescents will be self harm. Slightly higher for females over males. Can continue well into adulthood though numbers tend to drop down.

why do the numbers drop into adulthood? what is the given reason for why cutters choose to stop?in other words what is it we think is fixing them?
One act of Rebellion created all the darkness and evil in the world; One life of Total Obedience created a path back to eternity and God.

A Scout is Obedient.
Puck
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7/8/2010 4:06:11 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 7/8/2010 3:59:08 PM, Marauder wrote:
At 7/8/2010 3:44:00 PM, theLwerd wrote:

Either way, self-harm is considered a mental disorder

Naw it's not really, though the new DSM may change that. You can diagnose it alongside Borderline PD, or as addiction - non classified.

well, if they don't value themselves so much they would cut their wrist, but a dose of religion would teach them they are valued and loved by the all knowing Creator,

Nope. Stats says otherwise. In this case religion is certainly not the opium.
Puck
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7/8/2010 4:08:27 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 7/8/2010 4:05:11 PM, Marauder wrote:

why do the numbers drop into adulthood? what is the given reason for why cutters choose to stop?in other words what is it we think is fixing them?

It's not a magic age thing. Generally it's life events move them past where the need for control and expressing it that way change. Not for everyone though.
Marauder
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7/8/2010 4:12:19 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 7/8/2010 4:02:11 PM, theLwerd wrote:
At 7/8/2010 3:59:08 PM, Marauder wrote:
well, if they don't value themselves so much they would cut their wrist, but a dose of religion would teach them they are valued and loved by the all knowing Creator, I would expect that would make for a positive influence on their considering themselves worthless. Its kind of hard to hate yourself if you know someone else loves you, especially someone who knows everything about you.

This is very true, and serves as one example of a way in which religion can be helpful. However what if your religion is the source of that contempt? For instance tons of gay Christians have committed suicide over the notion that "God wouldn't love them anymore" simply because of something they couldn't control (like sexuality).

I did not know that, thats interesting. I would consider that a misundestanding of religion, because unlike the WestBoroBaptist, I think God loves gays too. In any case I can see what you mean, clearly religion can affect it both ways.
But from you've told me it seems all the cutters you've met did it because they take pleasure in pain. not anything to do with lack of self worth.

Yeah, or other reasons. They may have felt worthless at the time, though I don't see how cutting would solve that or make them somehow worthwhile.

I bet it probably makes sense if they always feel worthless in context with thinking 'I only make things worse'

If they were depressed because of that worthless feeling, then that's another issue... and it needs addressing, be it through religious or psychological intervention (though I would certainly advocate the latter).

I'd push for both.
One act of Rebellion created all the darkness and evil in the world; One life of Total Obedience created a path back to eternity and God.

A Scout is Obedient.
lovelife
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7/8/2010 4:12:34 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
I used to cut every night. Suicide wasn't my plan on cutting. I just liked it, and it helped dull the depression.

I always liked blood, loved drinking it, loved seeing it, feeling it, tasting it, smelling it. I did freak once when I was 11. I almost always chose to cut legs over wrists since many wouldn't question, especially since I always wear short sleeves, and blue jeans.

I freaked because the blood wouldn't stop. It went everywhere, the rag was soaked but nothing stopped it. I got two to get to my room waited until morning and washed the sheets and blanket passing it off as my time of the month.

For about a year 1/2 I haven't cut much (meaning about 5 times total) and none were that serious.
Without Royal there is a hole inside of me, I have no choice but to leave
Marauder
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7/8/2010 4:14:16 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 7/8/2010 4:08:27 PM, Puck wrote:
At 7/8/2010 4:05:11 PM, Marauder wrote:

why do the numbers drop into adulthood? what is the given reason for why cutters choose to stop?in other words what is it we think is fixing them?

It's not a magic age thing. Generally it's life events move them past where the need for control and expressing it that way change. Not for everyone though.

what sort of life events?
One act of Rebellion created all the darkness and evil in the world; One life of Total Obedience created a path back to eternity and God.

A Scout is Obedient.
lovelife
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7/8/2010 4:18:27 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 7/8/2010 4:05:11 PM, Marauder wrote:
At 7/8/2010 3:59:49 PM, Puck wrote:
Self harm basically forms into two forms - there's a social aspect to it or there's a clinical aspect.

Social cutters, will and do cut, usually visibly, for the purposes of group membership. Cliques may form where cutting is acceptable.

The other is more a clinical issue. The research indicates it can form as a means of control in adolescents (pre adolescence too) much like eating disorders can form from that same need. What cutting does is provide a framework where the individual has control of their actions (it's generally secret, generally hidden) that's coupled with a physiological release (cutting or other methods will result in a release of chemicals, of which pain reduction is one giving a slight 'high' effect) - it's thought this is the mechanism for how it can turn addicting. General rule of thumb in clinical setting is the more hidden the cuts/burns etc., are, the more indicative that is of a psychological issue that needs addressing.

As for stats. Around 1/4 - 1/3 of adolescents will be self harm. Slightly higher for females over males. Can continue well into adulthood though numbers tend to drop down.

why do the numbers drop into adulthood? what is the given reason for why cutters choose to stop?in other words what is it we think is fixing them?

I think its the maturity. When your young your brain is devoloping, and learning and chemicals are messed up.
Without Royal there is a hole inside of me, I have no choice but to leave
Marauder
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7/8/2010 4:20:27 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 7/8/2010 4:12:34 PM, lovelife wrote:
I used to cut every night. Suicide wasn't my plan on cutting. I just liked it, and it helped dull the depression.

I always liked blood, loved drinking it, loved seeing it, feeling it, tasting it, smelling it. I did freak once when I was 11. I almost always chose to cut legs over wrists since many wouldn't question, especially since I always wear short sleeves, and blue jeans.

I freaked because the blood wouldn't stop. It went everywhere, the rag was soaked but nothing stopped it. I got two to get to my room waited until morning and washed the sheets and blanket passing it off as my time of the month.

For about a year 1/2 I haven't cut much (meaning about 5 times total) and none were that serious.

this sounds like you still.............................................................................
I say this in up-most concern for you, please stop cutting yourself. there are way better addictive things to do, like on this website http://www.addictinggames.com...

also, a better way to casually fight depression is to buy a new kind of cereal for breakfast. whatever it takes to shift up your routine.
One act of Rebellion created all the darkness and evil in the world; One life of Total Obedience created a path back to eternity and God.

A Scout is Obedient.
Puck
Posts: 6,457
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7/8/2010 4:20:27 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 7/8/2010 4:14:16 PM, Marauder wrote:
At 7/8/2010 4:08:27 PM, Puck wrote:
At 7/8/2010 4:05:11 PM, Marauder wrote:

why do the numbers drop into adulthood? what is the given reason for why cutters choose to stop?in other words what is it we think is fixing them?

It's not a magic age thing. Generally it's life events move them past where the need for control and expressing it that way change. Not for everyone though.

what sort of life events?

Self harm is usually an expression of control where it's not otherwise available (or limited). Generally freedom increases as a person ages through adolescence.
Marauder
Posts: 3,271
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7/8/2010 4:21:34 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 7/8/2010 4:20:27 PM, Puck wrote:
At 7/8/2010 4:14:16 PM, Marauder wrote:
At 7/8/2010 4:08:27 PM, Puck wrote:
At 7/8/2010 4:05:11 PM, Marauder wrote:

why do the numbers drop into adulthood? what is the given reason for why cutters choose to stop?in other words what is it we think is fixing them?

It's not a magic age thing. Generally it's life events move them past where the need for control and expressing it that way change. Not for everyone though.

what sort of life events?

Self harm is usually an expression of control where it's not otherwise available (or limited). Generally freedom increases as a person ages through adolescence.

that makes since.
One act of Rebellion created all the darkness and evil in the world; One life of Total Obedience created a path back to eternity and God.

A Scout is Obedient.
Korashk
Posts: 4,597
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7/8/2010 5:13:50 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
There's also the point that cutting releases endorphins that induce a sense of calm, it probably doesn't even hurt for people that do it regularly.
When large numbers of otherwise-law abiding people break specific laws en masse, it's usually a fault that lies with the law. - Unknown
lovelife
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7/8/2010 5:17:01 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 7/8/2010 4:20:27 PM, Marauder wrote:
At 7/8/2010 4:12:34 PM, lovelife wrote:
I used to cut every night. Suicide wasn't my plan on cutting. I just liked it, and it helped dull the depression.

I always liked blood, loved drinking it, loved seeing it, feeling it, tasting it, smelling it. I did freak once when I was 11. I almost always chose to cut legs over wrists since many wouldn't question, especially since I always wear short sleeves, and blue jeans.

I freaked because the blood wouldn't stop. It went everywhere, the rag was soaked but nothing stopped it. I got two to get to my room waited until morning and washed the sheets and blanket passing it off as my time of the month.

For about a year 1/2 I haven't cut much (meaning about 5 times total) and none were that serious.

this sounds like you still.............................................................................
I say this in up-most concern for you, please stop cutting yourself. there are way better addictive things to do, like on this website http://www.addictinggames.com...

also, a better way to casually fight depression is to buy a new kind of cereal for breakfast. whatever it takes to shift up your routine.

I'm fine now. I don't cut often only when needed, and most of whenI do is when I have no other options, such as computers, cell phone, ability to talk to anyone, no way out, nothing at all. Not even books. All I have is my shower time, which is usually private, but again no one knows how to knock, or that I don't like ppl walking in on me naked, whether I've been cutting or not (its been months)
Without Royal there is a hole inside of me, I have no choice but to leave
lovelife
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7/8/2010 5:18:31 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 7/8/2010 5:13:50 PM, Korashk wrote:
There's also the point that cutting releases endorphins that induce a sense of calm, it probably doesn't even hurt for people that do it regularly.

I can't remember it ever hurting. A few hours later it might sting a little, but nothing that bad.
Without Royal there is a hole inside of me, I have no choice but to leave
FREEDO
Posts: 21,057
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7/8/2010 5:30:48 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
I wouldn't just cut, I would whip myself and actively think about suicide, I almost went through with it twice but chickened out.
I felt so much guilt for the slightest appearance of a thought which I believed God wouldn't approve of. Also, I was in Christian home-schooling so I was very lonely, being the incredibly social person I am.
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