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The Unnecessary Step.

FREEDO
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7/9/2010 2:55:41 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
The paraphrase Carl Sagan:
Mankind has throughout our history often looked up at the stars and wondered "where did it all come from?". The convention answer to this question has been that a God or gods created. However, if we are to truly pursue this question courageously, we must then ask the next rational question. Where did God come from?
You may conclude that God has existed forever. But wouldn't it be more fit to save a step and conclude that the universe has existed forever?
You may also conclude that the origin of God is an unanswerable. But wouldn't it be more fit to save a step and conclude that the origin of the universe is an unanswerable question?
GRAND POOBAH OF DDO

fnord
GeoLaureate8
Posts: 12,252
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7/9/2010 3:02:07 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
This is an argument I constantly bring up to Theists (which I took from Sagan, but expanded upon), yet this fallacious reasoning keeps pervading.

I particularly use it to refute the Teleological Argument. Why does a complex Universe need a designer, but a complex being doesn't. Why can God be eternal, but the Unverse can't.
"We must raise the standard of the Old, free, decentralized, and strictly limited Republic."
-- Murray Rothbard

"The worst thing that can happen to a good cause is, not to be skillfully attacked, but to be ineptly defended."
-- Frederic Bastiat
innomen
Posts: 10,052
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7/9/2010 3:02:45 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 7/9/2010 2:55:41 PM, FREEDO wrote:
The paraphrase Carl Sagan:
Mankind has throughout our history often looked up at the stars and wondered "where did it all come from?". The convention answer to this question has been that a God or gods created. However, if we are to truly pursue this question courageously, we must then ask the next rational question. Where did God come from?
You may conclude that God has existed forever. But wouldn't it be more fit to save a step and conclude that the universe has existed forever?
You may also conclude that the origin of God is an unanswerable. But wouldn't it be more fit to save a step and conclude that the origin of the universe is an unanswerable question?

Isn't a more profound question: why? Why have we come to exist seems to be more of an important question than the mechanics of how we came to be.
lovelife
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7/9/2010 3:03:52 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 7/9/2010 3:02:07 PM, GeoLaureate8 wrote:
This is an argument I constantly bring up to Theists (which I took from Sagan, but expanded upon), yet this fallacious reasoning keeps pervading.

I particularly use it to refute the Teleological Argument. Why does a complex Universe need a designer, but a complex being doesn't. Why can God be eternal, but the Unverse can't.

Because theists don't want to believe it. They'd rather think their God has always been despite the logic.
Without Royal there is a hole inside of me, I have no choice but to leave
Strikeeagle84015
Posts: 867
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7/9/2010 3:04:22 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
Well this question fails if God exists outside of the universe and has existed forever then the universe still has an intelligent creator that has always existed
: At 8/17/2010 7:17:56 AM, I-am-a-panda wrote:
: Hey dawg, i herd you like evangelical trolls so we put a bible thumper in yo bible thumper so you can troll while you troll!

Arguing with an atheist about God is very similar to arguing with a blind man about what the Sistine Chapel looks like
Marilyn Poe

Strikeeagle wrote
The only way I will stop believing in God is if he appeared before me and told me that he did not exist.
popculturepooka
Posts: 7,924
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7/9/2010 3:05:57 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 7/9/2010 2:55:41 PM, FREEDO wrote:

You may conclude that God has existed forever. But wouldn't it be more fit to save a step and conclude that the universe has existed forever?

...no. Considering the fact there is scientific evidence and philosophical arguments against the notion of an eternal universe.
At 10/3/2016 11:49:13 PM, thett3 wrote:
BLACK LIVES MATTER!
Kinesis
Posts: 3,667
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7/9/2010 3:06:49 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 7/9/2010 2:55:41 PM, FREEDO wrote:
The paraphrase Carl Sagan:
Mankind has throughout our history often looked up at the stars and wondered "where did it all come from?". The convention answer to this question has been that a God or gods created. However, if we are to truly pursue this question courageously, we must then ask the next rational question. Where did God come from?
You may conclude that God has existed forever. But wouldn't it be more fit to save a step and conclude that the universe has existed forever?
You may also conclude that the origin of God is an unanswerable. But wouldn't it be more fit to save a step and conclude that the origin of the universe is an unanswerable question?

I think there's a bit of confusion about this on the theist side. Theist philosophers generally assert that God is *timeless* so I don't see how eternalness could be meaningfully applied. In any case, the eternalness of the universe would be very different from the eternalness of God, so equating to two seems fallacious.
FREEDO
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7/9/2010 3:07:51 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 7/9/2010 3:04:22 PM, Strikeeagle84015 wrote:
Well this question fails if God exists outside of the universe and has existed forever then the universe still has an intelligent creator that has always existed

No, you fail. It is fallacious to make believe in this unnecessary step.
GRAND POOBAH OF DDO

fnord
Kinesis
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7/9/2010 3:08:09 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 7/9/2010 3:05:57 PM, popculturepooka wrote:
At 7/9/2010 2:55:41 PM, FREEDO wrote:

You may conclude that God has existed forever. But wouldn't it be more fit to save a step and conclude that the universe has existed forever?

...no. Considering the fact there is scientific evidence and philosophical arguments against the notion of an eternal universe.

Highly controversial scientific evidence and philosophical arguments against the notion of an eternal universe. :P
FREEDO
Posts: 21,057
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7/9/2010 3:08:19 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 7/9/2010 3:05:57 PM, popculturepooka wrote:
At 7/9/2010 2:55:41 PM, FREEDO wrote:

You may conclude that God has existed forever. But wouldn't it be more fit to save a step and conclude that the universe has existed forever?

...no. Considering the fact there is scientific evidence and philosophical arguments against the notion of an eternal universe.

That would not apply to God?
GRAND POOBAH OF DDO

fnord
Strikeeagle84015
Posts: 867
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7/9/2010 3:09:01 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 7/9/2010 3:07:51 PM, FREEDO wrote:
At 7/9/2010 3:04:22 PM, Strikeeagle84015 wrote:
Well this question fails if God exists outside of the universe and has existed forever then the universe still has an intelligent creator that has always existed

No, you fail. It is fallacious to make believe in this unnecessary step.

How is it make believe if God existed outside the universe then he could've always existed and he can be accepted as the creator of the universe
: At 8/17/2010 7:17:56 AM, I-am-a-panda wrote:
: Hey dawg, i herd you like evangelical trolls so we put a bible thumper in yo bible thumper so you can troll while you troll!

Arguing with an atheist about God is very similar to arguing with a blind man about what the Sistine Chapel looks like
Marilyn Poe

Strikeeagle wrote
The only way I will stop believing in God is if he appeared before me and told me that he did not exist.
popculturepooka
Posts: 7,924
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7/9/2010 3:10:26 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 7/9/2010 3:08:19 PM, FREEDO wrote:
At 7/9/2010 3:05:57 PM, popculturepooka wrote:
At 7/9/2010 2:55:41 PM, FREEDO wrote:

You may conclude that God has existed forever. But wouldn't it be more fit to save a step and conclude that the universe has existed forever?

...no. Considering the fact there is scientific evidence and philosophical arguments against the notion of an eternal universe.

That would not apply to God?

God isn't a scientific hypothesis.
At 10/3/2016 11:49:13 PM, thett3 wrote:
BLACK LIVES MATTER!
GeoLaureate8
Posts: 12,252
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7/9/2010 3:10:42 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 7/9/2010 3:05:57 PM, popculturepooka wrote:
At 7/9/2010 2:55:41 PM, FREEDO wrote:

You may conclude that God has existed forever. But wouldn't it be more fit to save a step and conclude that the universe has existed forever?

...no. Considering the fact there is scientific evidence and philosophical arguments against the notion of an eternal universe.

Now apply that same argument to God and his God-realm.
"We must raise the standard of the Old, free, decentralized, and strictly limited Republic."
-- Murray Rothbard

"The worst thing that can happen to a good cause is, not to be skillfully attacked, but to be ineptly defended."
-- Frederic Bastiat
Strikeeagle84015
Posts: 867
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7/9/2010 3:11:36 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 7/9/2010 3:10:42 PM, GeoLaureate8 wrote:
At 7/9/2010 3:05:57 PM, popculturepooka wrote:
At 7/9/2010 2:55:41 PM, FREEDO wrote:

You may conclude that God has existed forever. But wouldn't it be more fit to save a step and conclude that the universe has existed forever?

...no. Considering the fact there is scientific evidence and philosophical arguments against the notion of an eternal universe.

Now apply that same argument to God and his God-realm.

What if God exists on a different dimension than ours then would not the laws of reality be different?
: At 8/17/2010 7:17:56 AM, I-am-a-panda wrote:
: Hey dawg, i herd you like evangelical trolls so we put a bible thumper in yo bible thumper so you can troll while you troll!

Arguing with an atheist about God is very similar to arguing with a blind man about what the Sistine Chapel looks like
Marilyn Poe

Strikeeagle wrote
The only way I will stop believing in God is if he appeared before me and told me that he did not exist.
Kinesis
Posts: 3,667
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7/9/2010 3:12:24 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 7/9/2010 3:10:42 PM, GeoLaureate8 wrote:
At 7/9/2010 3:05:57 PM, popculturepooka wrote:
At 7/9/2010 2:55:41 PM, FREEDO wrote:

You may conclude that God has existed forever. But wouldn't it be more fit to save a step and conclude that the universe has existed forever?

...no. Considering the fact there is scientific evidence and philosophical arguments against the notion of an eternal universe.

Now apply that same argument to God and his God-realm.

The scientific evidence obviously doesn't apply to God. I think the philosophical arguments do in a roundabout way.
FREEDO
Posts: 21,057
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7/9/2010 3:14:03 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 7/9/2010 3:09:01 PM, Strikeeagle84015 wrote:
At 7/9/2010 3:07:51 PM, FREEDO wrote:
At 7/9/2010 3:04:22 PM, Strikeeagle84015 wrote:
Well this question fails if God exists outside of the universe and has existed forever then the universe still has an intelligent creator that has always existed

No, you fail. It is fallacious to make believe in this unnecessary step.

How is it make believe if God existed outside the universe then he could've always existed and he can be accepted as the creator of the universe

You're not getting it. He can be(not taking in other arguments which suggest he can't) but this destroys any reason to believe that there is.
GRAND POOBAH OF DDO

fnord
FREEDO
Posts: 21,057
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7/9/2010 3:16:02 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 7/9/2010 3:10:26 PM, popculturepooka wrote:
At 7/9/2010 3:08:19 PM, FREEDO wrote:
At 7/9/2010 3:05:57 PM, popculturepooka wrote:
At 7/9/2010 2:55:41 PM, FREEDO wrote:

You may conclude that God has existed forever. But wouldn't it be more fit to save a step and conclude that the universe has existed forever?

...no. Considering the fact there is scientific evidence and philosophical arguments against the notion of an eternal universe.

That would not apply to God?

God isn't a scientific hypothesis.

You also said philosophical. Does logic not apply to God? Is a concept of God who does not have logic apply to him not illogical?
GRAND POOBAH OF DDO

fnord
Strikeeagle84015
Posts: 867
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7/9/2010 3:16:26 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 7/9/2010 3:16:02 PM, FREEDO wrote:
At 7/9/2010 3:10:26 PM, popculturepooka wrote:
At 7/9/2010 3:08:19 PM, FREEDO wrote:
At 7/9/2010 3:05:57 PM, popculturepooka wrote:
At 7/9/2010 2:55:41 PM, FREEDO wrote:

You may conclude that God has existed forever. But wouldn't it be more fit to save a step and conclude that the universe has existed forever?

...no. Considering the fact there is scientific evidence and philosophical arguments against the notion of an eternal universe.

That would not apply to God?

God isn't a scientific hypothesis.

You also said philosophical. Does logic not apply to God? Is a concept of God who does not have logic apply to him not illogical?

What if God proceeds logic?
: At 8/17/2010 7:17:56 AM, I-am-a-panda wrote:
: Hey dawg, i herd you like evangelical trolls so we put a bible thumper in yo bible thumper so you can troll while you troll!

Arguing with an atheist about God is very similar to arguing with a blind man about what the Sistine Chapel looks like
Marilyn Poe

Strikeeagle wrote
The only way I will stop believing in God is if he appeared before me and told me that he did not exist.
FREEDO
Posts: 21,057
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7/9/2010 3:17:09 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 7/9/2010 3:11:36 PM, Strikeeagle84015 wrote:
At 7/9/2010 3:10:42 PM, GeoLaureate8 wrote:
At 7/9/2010 3:05:57 PM, popculturepooka wrote:
At 7/9/2010 2:55:41 PM, FREEDO wrote:

You may conclude that God has existed forever. But wouldn't it be more fit to save a step and conclude that the universe has existed forever?

...no. Considering the fact there is scientific evidence and philosophical arguments against the notion of an eternal universe.

Now apply that same argument to God and his God-realm.

What if God exists on a different dimension than ours then would not the laws of reality be different?

No, the laws of physics would. The laws of reality must be static.
GRAND POOBAH OF DDO

fnord
FREEDO
Posts: 21,057
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7/9/2010 3:18:18 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 7/9/2010 3:16:26 PM, Strikeeagle84015 wrote:
At 7/9/2010 3:16:02 PM, FREEDO wrote:
At 7/9/2010 3:10:26 PM, popculturepooka wrote:
At 7/9/2010 3:08:19 PM, FREEDO wrote:
At 7/9/2010 3:05:57 PM, popculturepooka wrote:
At 7/9/2010 2:55:41 PM, FREEDO wrote:

You may conclude that God has existed forever. But wouldn't it be more fit to save a step and conclude that the universe has existed forever?

...no. Considering the fact there is scientific evidence and philosophical arguments against the notion of an eternal universe.

That would not apply to God?

God isn't a scientific hypothesis.

You also said philosophical. Does logic not apply to God? Is a concept of God who does not have logic apply to him not illogical?

What if God proceeds logic?

A concept of God which is outside logic is as such illogical.
GRAND POOBAH OF DDO

fnord
Strikeeagle84015
Posts: 867
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7/9/2010 3:18:21 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 7/9/2010 3:17:09 PM, FREEDO wrote:
At 7/9/2010 3:11:36 PM, Strikeeagle84015 wrote:
At 7/9/2010 3:10:42 PM, GeoLaureate8 wrote:
At 7/9/2010 3:05:57 PM, popculturepooka wrote:
At 7/9/2010 2:55:41 PM, FREEDO wrote:

You may conclude that God has existed forever. But wouldn't it be more fit to save a step and conclude that the universe has existed forever?

...no. Considering the fact there is scientific evidence and philosophical arguments against the notion of an eternal universe.

Now apply that same argument to God and his God-realm.

What if God exists on a different dimension than ours then would not the laws of reality be different?

No, the laws of physics would. The laws of reality must be static.

But yet you claim that something that has no borders is expanding? How does that work
and actually one of the stumbling blocks to a Grand Unified Field theory is the fact that in certain situations the laws of physics stop applying
: At 8/17/2010 7:17:56 AM, I-am-a-panda wrote:
: Hey dawg, i herd you like evangelical trolls so we put a bible thumper in yo bible thumper so you can troll while you troll!

Arguing with an atheist about God is very similar to arguing with a blind man about what the Sistine Chapel looks like
Marilyn Poe

Strikeeagle wrote
The only way I will stop believing in God is if he appeared before me and told me that he did not exist.
Strikeeagle84015
Posts: 867
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7/9/2010 3:19:46 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 7/9/2010 3:18:18 PM, FREEDO wrote:
At 7/9/2010 3:16:26 PM, Strikeeagle84015 wrote:
At 7/9/2010 3:16:02 PM, FREEDO wrote:
At 7/9/2010 3:10:26 PM, popculturepooka wrote:
At 7/9/2010 3:08:19 PM, FREEDO wrote:
At 7/9/2010 3:05:57 PM, popculturepooka wrote:
At 7/9/2010 2:55:41 PM, FREEDO wrote:

You may conclude that God has existed forever. But wouldn't it be more fit to save a step and conclude that the universe has existed forever?

...no. Considering the fact there is scientific evidence and philosophical arguments against the notion of an eternal universe.

That would not apply to God?

God isn't a scientific hypothesis.

You also said philosophical. Does logic not apply to God? Is a concept of God who does not have logic apply to him not illogical?

What if God proceeds logic?

A concept of God which is outside logic is as such illogical.

When do the laws of logic stop working?
: At 8/17/2010 7:17:56 AM, I-am-a-panda wrote:
: Hey dawg, i herd you like evangelical trolls so we put a bible thumper in yo bible thumper so you can troll while you troll!

Arguing with an atheist about God is very similar to arguing with a blind man about what the Sistine Chapel looks like
Marilyn Poe

Strikeeagle wrote
The only way I will stop believing in God is if he appeared before me and told me that he did not exist.
FREEDO
Posts: 21,057
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7/9/2010 3:24:02 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 7/9/2010 3:18:21 PM, Strikeeagle84015 wrote:
At 7/9/2010 3:17:09 PM, FREEDO wrote:
At 7/9/2010 3:11:36 PM, Strikeeagle84015 wrote:
At 7/9/2010 3:10:42 PM, GeoLaureate8 wrote:
At 7/9/2010 3:05:57 PM, popculturepooka wrote:
At 7/9/2010 2:55:41 PM, FREEDO wrote:

You may conclude that God has existed forever. But wouldn't it be more fit to save a step and conclude that the universe has existed forever?

...no. Considering the fact there is scientific evidence and philosophical arguments against the notion of an eternal universe.

Now apply that same argument to God and his God-realm.

What if God exists on a different dimension than ours then would not the laws of reality be different?

No, the laws of physics would. The laws of reality must be static.

But yet you claim that something that has no borders is expanding? How does that work
and actually one of the stumbling blocks to a Grand Unified Field theory is the fact that in certain situations the laws of physics stop applying

You misunderstand what I was explaining about the nature of the expanding universe in the other thread. Also, yes I know that most of the laws of physics are not absolute. The laws of reality are separate. The laws of reality are what must exist because it is paradoxical for them not to.
GRAND POOBAH OF DDO

fnord
Strikeeagle84015
Posts: 867
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7/9/2010 3:24:49 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 7/9/2010 3:24:02 PM, FREEDO wrote:
At 7/9/2010 3:18:21 PM, Strikeeagle84015 wrote:
At 7/9/2010 3:17:09 PM, FREEDO wrote:
At 7/9/2010 3:11:36 PM, Strikeeagle84015 wrote:
At 7/9/2010 3:10:42 PM, GeoLaureate8 wrote:
At 7/9/2010 3:05:57 PM, popculturepooka wrote:
At 7/9/2010 2:55:41 PM, FREEDO wrote:

You may conclude that God has existed forever. But wouldn't it be more fit to save a step and conclude that the universe has existed forever?

...no. Considering the fact there is scientific evidence and philosophical arguments against the notion of an eternal universe.

Now apply that same argument to God and his God-realm.

What if God exists on a different dimension than ours then would not the laws of reality be different?

No, the laws of physics would. The laws of reality must be static.

But yet you claim that something that has no borders is expanding? How does that work
and actually one of the stumbling blocks to a Grand Unified Field theory is the fact that in certain situations the laws of physics stop applying

You misunderstand what I was explaining about the nature of the expanding universe in the other thread. Also, yes I know that most of the laws of physics are not absolute. The laws of reality are separate. The laws of reality are what must exist because it is paradoxical for them not to.

What are these laws then?
: At 8/17/2010 7:17:56 AM, I-am-a-panda wrote:
: Hey dawg, i herd you like evangelical trolls so we put a bible thumper in yo bible thumper so you can troll while you troll!

Arguing with an atheist about God is very similar to arguing with a blind man about what the Sistine Chapel looks like
Marilyn Poe

Strikeeagle wrote
The only way I will stop believing in God is if he appeared before me and told me that he did not exist.
FREEDO
Posts: 21,057
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7/9/2010 3:25:05 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 7/9/2010 3:19:46 PM, Strikeeagle84015 wrote:
At 7/9/2010 3:18:18 PM, FREEDO wrote:
At 7/9/2010 3:16:26 PM, Strikeeagle84015 wrote:
At 7/9/2010 3:16:02 PM, FREEDO wrote:
At 7/9/2010 3:10:26 PM, popculturepooka wrote:
At 7/9/2010 3:08:19 PM, FREEDO wrote:
At 7/9/2010 3:05:57 PM, popculturepooka wrote:
At 7/9/2010 2:55:41 PM, FREEDO wrote:

You may conclude that God has existed forever. But wouldn't it be more fit to save a step and conclude that the universe has existed forever?

...no. Considering the fact there is scientific evidence and philosophical arguments against the notion of an eternal universe.

That would not apply to God?

God isn't a scientific hypothesis.

You also said philosophical. Does logic not apply to God? Is a concept of God who does not have logic apply to him not illogical?

What if God proceeds logic?

A concept of God which is outside logic is as such illogical.

When do the laws of logic stop working?

On subjective terms, when no one is around to think. On objective terms, they don't.
GRAND POOBAH OF DDO

fnord
Strikeeagle84015
Posts: 867
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7/9/2010 3:27:34 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 7/9/2010 3:25:05 PM, FREEDO wrote:
At 7/9/2010 3:19:46 PM, Strikeeagle84015 wrote:
At 7/9/2010 3:18:18 PM, FREEDO wrote:
At 7/9/2010 3:16:26 PM, Strikeeagle84015 wrote:
At 7/9/2010 3:16:02 PM, FREEDO wrote:
At 7/9/2010 3:10:26 PM, popculturepooka wrote:
At 7/9/2010 3:08:19 PM, FREEDO wrote:
At 7/9/2010 3:05:57 PM, popculturepooka wrote:
At 7/9/2010 2:55:41 PM, FREEDO wrote:

You may conclude that God has existed forever. But wouldn't it be more fit to save a step and conclude that the universe has existed forever?

...no. Considering the fact there is scientific evidence and philosophical arguments against the notion of an eternal universe.

That would not apply to God?

God isn't a scientific hypothesis.

You also said philosophical. Does logic not apply to God? Is a concept of God who does not have logic apply to him not illogical?

What if God proceeds logic?

A concept of God which is outside logic is as such illogical.

When do the laws of logic stop working?

On subjective terms, when no one is around to think. On objective terms, they don't.

Then your model of the universe is flawed as you say it is expanding and infinite that is a logically impossibility and therefore your conception of the universe falls
: At 8/17/2010 7:17:56 AM, I-am-a-panda wrote:
: Hey dawg, i herd you like evangelical trolls so we put a bible thumper in yo bible thumper so you can troll while you troll!

Arguing with an atheist about God is very similar to arguing with a blind man about what the Sistine Chapel looks like
Marilyn Poe

Strikeeagle wrote
The only way I will stop believing in God is if he appeared before me and told me that he did not exist.
FREEDO
Posts: 21,057
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7/9/2010 3:32:35 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 7/9/2010 3:27:34 PM, Strikeeagle84015 wrote:
At 7/9/2010 3:25:05 PM, FREEDO wrote:
At 7/9/2010 3:19:46 PM, Strikeeagle84015 wrote:
At 7/9/2010 3:18:18 PM, FREEDO wrote:
At 7/9/2010 3:16:26 PM, Strikeeagle84015 wrote:
At 7/9/2010 3:16:02 PM, FREEDO wrote:
At 7/9/2010 3:10:26 PM, popculturepooka wrote:
At 7/9/2010 3:08:19 PM, FREEDO wrote:
At 7/9/2010 3:05:57 PM, popculturepooka wrote:
At 7/9/2010 2:55:41 PM, FREEDO wrote:

You may conclude that God has existed forever. But wouldn't it be more fit to save a step and conclude that the universe has existed forever?

...no. Considering the fact there is scientific evidence and philosophical arguments against the notion of an eternal universe.

That would not apply to God?

God isn't a scientific hypothesis.

You also said philosophical. Does logic not apply to God? Is a concept of God who does not have logic apply to him not illogical?

What if God proceeds logic?

A concept of God which is outside logic is as such illogical.

When do the laws of logic stop working?

On subjective terms, when no one is around to think. On objective terms, they don't.

Then your model of the universe is flawed as you say it is expanding and infinite that is a logically impossibility and therefore your conception of the universe falls

This is like talking to a baby about mechanics. Read my response in the other thread.
GRAND POOBAH OF DDO

fnord
Strikeeagle84015
Posts: 867
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7/9/2010 3:37:46 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 7/9/2010 3:32:35 PM, FREEDO wrote:
At 7/9/2010 3:27:34 PM, Strikeeagle84015 wrote:
At 7/9/2010 3:25:05 PM, FREEDO wrote:
At 7/9/2010 3:19:46 PM, Strikeeagle84015 wrote:
At 7/9/2010 3:18:18 PM, FREEDO wrote:
At 7/9/2010 3:16:26 PM, Strikeeagle84015 wrote:
At 7/9/2010 3:16:02 PM, FREEDO wrote:
At 7/9/2010 3:10:26 PM, popculturepooka wrote:
At 7/9/2010 3:08:19 PM, FREEDO wrote:
At 7/9/2010 3:05:57 PM, popculturepooka wrote:
At 7/9/2010 2:55:41 PM, FREEDO wrote:


This is like talking to a baby about mechanics. Read my response in :the other thread.
When you start insulting me is when I know I am winning
but you claim the universe is expanding in the 4th dimension that means that the universe is not everything as the 4th dimension exists outside of it
: At 8/17/2010 7:17:56 AM, I-am-a-panda wrote:
: Hey dawg, i herd you like evangelical trolls so we put a bible thumper in yo bible thumper so you can troll while you troll!

Arguing with an atheist about God is very similar to arguing with a blind man about what the Sistine Chapel looks like
Marilyn Poe

Strikeeagle wrote
The only way I will stop believing in God is if he appeared before me and told me that he did not exist.
tkubok
Posts: 5,044
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7/9/2010 10:53:17 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 7/9/2010 3:16:26 PM, Strikeeagle84015 wrote:
What if God proceeds logic?

Hold on, hold on. Tell me, can God make a square triangle?
FREEDO
Posts: 21,057
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7/9/2010 10:56:51 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 7/9/2010 3:37:46 PM, Strikeeagle84015 wrote:
At 7/9/2010 3:32:35 PM, FREEDO wrote:
At 7/9/2010 3:27:34 PM, Strikeeagle84015 wrote:
At 7/9/2010 3:25:05 PM, FREEDO wrote:
At 7/9/2010 3:19:46 PM, Strikeeagle84015 wrote:
At 7/9/2010 3:18:18 PM, FREEDO wrote:
At 7/9/2010 3:16:26 PM, Strikeeagle84015 wrote:
At 7/9/2010 3:16:02 PM, FREEDO wrote:
At 7/9/2010 3:10:26 PM, popculturepooka wrote:
At 7/9/2010 3:08:19 PM, FREEDO wrote:
At 7/9/2010 3:05:57 PM, popculturepooka wrote:
At 7/9/2010 2:55:41 PM, FREEDO wrote:


This is like talking to a baby about mechanics. Read my response in :the other thread.
When you start insulting me is when I know I am winning
but you claim the universe is expanding in the 4th dimension that means that the universe is not everything as the 4th dimension exists outside of it

No, the fourth dimension is not a place as it is commonly mistaken, it is an attribute. In quantum physics there are often mentions of 12 dimensions in-order to even make sense of things.
GRAND POOBAH OF DDO

fnord