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The Lords Prayer, what can it teach us?

MadCornishBiker
Posts: 23,302
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2/19/2015 6:29:11 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
John 4:23-24
ASV(i) 23 But the hour cometh, and now is, when the true worshippers shall worship the Father in spirit and truth: for such doth the Father seek to be his worshippers. 24 God is a Spirit: and they that worship him must worship in spirit and truth.

Note that in that scripture worshipping with truth is a must, not an option.

The glory for everything, including our salvation must go to God, though respect for his son's role in it is also important.

Remember, Jesus taught us to pray to his father, but also in his name.

John 14:13-14
ASV(i) 13 And whatsoever ye shall ask in my name, that will I do, that the Father may be glorified in the Son. 14 If ye shall ask anything in my name, that will I do.

Think about that.

Christ says to ask in his name, but he does not say to ask him.

He also says that he will do it to his father's glory.

Of course, since he is speaking to his chosen 12 he is also making the assumption that whatever they ask will be in line with Jehovah's purpose for them and his creation. As his model prayer, the Lords prayer, shows, he will only give us what we need for now, not what we want, so a prayer for a Mercedes Benz might being you the means to buy a smaller, cheaper, car if you need one to et work to support your family, but greedy prayers are likely to be ignored completely.

Think very carefully about every word of the Lords Prayer. In reality it teaches us a lot more than just the format of a prayer. Lets look at it and break it down.

Matthew 6:9-13 ASV(i)

9 After this manner therefore pray ye:

Notice it is "after this manner", not repeating these words like a trained budgie, but using this prayer as a pattern for your own swords to follow, Words said by rote are pointless, a prayer must mean something to each person. It has to be persoianl.

Our Father who art in heaven,

Notice who we are praying to.

Hallowed be thy name.

Notice how the importance of God's holy name, and our making it holy in our lives is placed before all else How many people rally know God's name, or would, if asked, say "Jesus". Whoops. Jesus always put his father first, if we are following Jesus, so must we.

10 Thy kingdom come.

That should be the next most important thing to us, but do we really know what that Kingdom is? What's the point in praying for something if we don;t even know what we are praying for?

Thy will be done, as in heaven, so on earth

In heaven God's will is done from one end to the other, and even Satan, though he doesn't realise it is doing what God wants, because he is concentrating on taunting God and the faithful angels rather than working hard to prove his challenge. God is distracting him for our sakes.

Of course now he has been cast down it is different, but God's will is still being done throughout heaven.

We are actually praying that everyone on thee planet do God's will for ever, as the faithful Angels do.

11 Give us this day our daily bread.

In other words the necessities of life, what we actually need, not what we want. Anything over and above that, especially in this time of the end is greed in God's eyes.

Of course he will make sure we get more, but we mustn't ask for, or expect, more.

12 And forgive us our debts, as we also have forgiven our debtors.

What debts? and to whom?

The only debts we owe to Jehovah are gratitude obedience to him through love for him, and love for our fellow man, if we are falling short in those areas, we need to ask God's forgiveness, and we will be, we can't help it at present, so God will forgive us as long as we are doing our best.

13 And bring us not into temptation, but deliver us from the evil one

We need God's protection from Satan, and all who follow his ways, even if they don;t know it, and most don't. We are actually asking for God's spirit to guard us, and especially guard our hearts.

How much of that do we really understand?

What is the point in praying if we do not?

The vast majority of Christendom, pray the wrong way, for the wrong things, and to a fake version of God introduced by Satan to destroy as many people as possible.

See why, so early in his ministry, Jesus made truth so important? That simple model prayer can lead us into realising how little we know if we actually think about it, and gives us encouragement to fill those gaps in our knowledge.

However, as scripture shows us from beginning to end, God has only ever authorised one path to that knowledge,and in this time of the end that path is the JWs. Satan introduced the confusion into what then became his church, not God's, and since his casting down has added to the confusion by creating not just a few Apostate versions, but thousands, making it harder and harder to find the real one.

He now knows that an oversized ego is not enough to beat God so he is angry, very angry, as Revelation 12 tells us, and he is going to take as many with him as he can, when the sentence he now knows is inevitable is finally passed, and executed.
JJ50
Posts: 2,144
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2/19/2015 6:36:59 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
You must have an oversized ego MCB, if you think many of us give any credence to your nonsense. I suggest you get your own life in order instead of preaching!
bornofgod
Posts: 11,322
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2/19/2015 8:01:44 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 2/19/2015 6:29:11 AM, MadCornishBiker wrote:
John 4:23-24
ASV(i) 23 But the hour cometh, and now is, when the true worshippers shall worship the Father in spirit and truth: for such doth the Father seek to be his worshippers. 24 God is a Spirit: and they that worship him must worship in spirit and truth.

Note that in that scripture worshipping with truth is a must, not an option.

The glory for everything, including our salvation must go to God, though respect for his son's role in it is also important.

Remember, Jesus taught us to pray to his father, but also in his name.

John 14:13-14
ASV(i) 13 And whatsoever ye shall ask in my name, that will I do, that the Father may be glorified in the Son. 14 If ye shall ask anything in my name, that will I do.

Think about that.

Christ says to ask in his name, but he does not say to ask him.

He also says that he will do it to his father's glory.

Of course, since he is speaking to his chosen 12 he is also making the assumption that whatever they ask will be in line with Jehovah's purpose for them and his creation. As his model prayer, the Lords prayer, shows, he will only give us what we need for now, not what we want, so a prayer for a Mercedes Benz might being you the means to buy a smaller, cheaper, car if you need one to et work to support your family, but greedy prayers are likely to be ignored completely.

Think very carefully about every word of the Lords Prayer. In reality it teaches us a lot more than just the format of a prayer. Lets look at it and break it down.

Matthew 6:9-13 ASV(i)

9 After this manner therefore pray ye:

Notice it is "after this manner", not repeating these words like a trained budgie, but using this prayer as a pattern for your own swords to follow, Words said by rote are pointless, a prayer must mean something to each person. It has to be persoianl.

Our Father who art in heaven,

Notice who we are praying to.

Hallowed be thy name.

Notice how the importance of God's holy name, and our making it holy in our lives is placed before all else How many people rally know God's name, or would, if asked, say "Jesus". Whoops. Jesus always put his father first, if we are following Jesus, so must we.

10 Thy kingdom come.

That should be the next most important thing to us, but do we really know what that Kingdom is? What's the point in praying for something if we don;t even know what we are praying for?

Thy will be done, as in heaven, so on earth

In heaven God's will is done from one end to the other, and even Satan, though he doesn't realise it is doing what God wants, because he is concentrating on taunting God and the faithful angels rather than working hard to prove his challenge. God is distracting him for our sakes.

Of course now he has been cast down it is different, but God's will is still being done throughout heaven.

We are actually praying that everyone on thee planet do God's will for ever, as the faithful Angels do.

11 Give us this day our daily bread.

In other words the necessities of life, what we actually need, not what we want. Anything over and above that, especially in this time of the end is greed in God's eyes.

Of course he will make sure we get more, but we mustn't ask for, or expect, more.

12 And forgive us our debts, as we also have forgiven our debtors.

What debts? and to whom?

The only debts we owe to Jehovah are gratitude obedience to him through love for him, and love for our fellow man, if we are falling short in those areas, we need to ask God's forgiveness, and we will be, we can't help it at present, so God will forgive us as long as we are doing our best.

13 And bring us not into temptation, but deliver us from the evil one

We need God's protection from Satan, and all who follow his ways, even if they don;t know it, and most don't. We are actually asking for God's spirit to guard us, and especially guard our hearts.


How much of that do we really understand?

What is the point in praying if we do not?

The vast majority of Christendom, pray the wrong way, for the wrong things, and to a fake version of God introduced by Satan to destroy as many people as possible.

See why, so early in his ministry, Jesus made truth so important? That simple model prayer can lead us into realising how little we know if we actually think about it, and gives us encouragement to fill those gaps in our knowledge.

However, as scripture shows us from beginning to end, God has only ever authorised one path to that knowledge,and in this time of the end that path is the JWs. Satan introduced the confusion into what then became his church, not God's, and since his casting down has added to the confusion by creating not just a few Apostate versions, but thousands, making it harder and harder to find the real one.

He now knows that an oversized ego is not enough to beat God so he is angry, very angry, as Revelation 12 tells us, and he is going to take as many with him as he can, when the sentence he now knows is inevitable is finally passed, and executed.

If Jesus would have told his disciples to listen to the Jehovah's Witnesses in order to go to Heaven, I'm sure that the heathens who had the new testament published would have kept that information out of it.
MadCornishBiker
Posts: 23,302
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2/19/2015 9:33:35 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 2/19/2015 6:36:59 AM, JJ50 wrote:
You must have an oversized ego MCB, if you think many of us give any credence to your nonsense. I suggest you get your own life in order instead of preaching!

No I have no ego, I could not give myself over to God completely if I did.

God, Christ, and scripture are my life now and I want no other.
Harikrish
Posts: 11,005
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2/19/2015 10:21:56 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 2/19/2015 6:36:59 AM, JJ50 wrote:
You must have an oversized ego MCB, if you think many of us give any credence to your nonsense. I suggest you get your own life in order instead of preaching!

Give the guy a break.

Here is what he goes through daily because of his clinical depression:

Feelings of sadness, emptiness or unhappiness
Angry outbursts, irritability or frustration, even over small matters
Loss of interest or pleasure in normal activities, such as sex
Sleep disturbances, including insomnia or sleeping too much
Tiredness and lack of energy, so that even small tasks take extra effort
Changes in appetite " often reduced appetite and weight loss, but increased cravings for food and weight gain in some people
Anxiety, agitation or restlessness " for example, excessive worrying, pacing, hand-wringing or an inability to sit still
Slowed thinking, speaking or body movements
Feelings of worthlessness or guilt, fixating on past failures or blaming yourself for things that are not your responsibility
Trouble thinking, concentrating, making decisions and remembering things
Frequent thoughts of death, suicidal thoughts, suicide attempts or suicide
Unexplained physical problems, such as back pain or headaches
MadCornishBiker
Posts: 23,302
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2/19/2015 2:23:33 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 2/19/2015 10:21:56 AM, Harikrish wrote:
At 2/19/2015 6:36:59 AM, JJ50 wrote:
You must have an oversized ego MCB, if you think many of us give any credence to your nonsense. I suggest you get your own life in order instead of preaching!

Give the guy a break.

Here is what he goes through daily because of his clinical depression:

Feelings of sadness, emptiness or unhappiness
Angry outbursts, irritability or frustration, even over small matters
Loss of interest or pleasure in normal activities, such as sex
Sleep disturbances, including insomnia or sleeping too much
Tiredness and lack of energy, so that even small tasks take extra effort
Changes in appetite " often reduced appetite and weight loss, but increased cravings for food and weight gain in some people
Anxiety, agitation or restlessness " for example, excessive worrying, pacing, hand-wringing or an inability to sit still
Slowed thinking, speaking or body movements
Feelings of worthlessness or guilt, fixating on past failures or blaming yourself for things that are not your responsibility
Trouble thinking, concentrating, making decisions and remembering things
Frequent thoughts of death, suicidal thoughts, suicide attempts or suicide
Unexplained physical problems, such as back pain or headaches

You hypocrite, lol "give the guy a break" indeed, you don't, lol.

I've already answered this twice elsewhere so you know I don;t suffer from most of them to any marked extent.

You really are sad aren't you, chasing me all round the place with the same post, again, lol.
Harikrish
Posts: 11,005
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2/19/2015 2:31:02 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 2/19/2015 2:23:33 PM, MadCornishBiker wrote:
At 2/19/2015 10:21:56 AM, Harikrish wrote:
At 2/19/2015 6:36:59 AM, JJ50 wrote:
You must have an oversized ego MCB, if you think many of us give any credence to your nonsense. I suggest you get your own life in order instead of preaching!

Give the guy a break.

Here is what he goes through daily because of his clinical depression:

Feelings of sadness, emptiness or unhappiness
Angry outbursts, irritability or frustration, even over small matters
Loss of interest or pleasure in normal activities, such as sex
Sleep disturbances, including insomnia or sleeping too much
Tiredness and lack of energy, so that even small tasks take extra effort
Changes in appetite " often reduced appetite and weight loss, but increased cravings for food and weight gain in some people
Anxiety, agitation or restlessness " for example, excessive worrying, pacing, hand-wringing or an inability to sit still
Slowed thinking, speaking or body movements
Feelings of worthlessness or guilt, fixating on past failures or blaming yourself for things that are not your responsibility
Trouble thinking, concentrating, making decisions and remembering things
Frequent thoughts of death, suicidal thoughts, suicide attempts or suicide
Unexplained physical problems, such as back pain or headaches

You hypocrite, lol "give the guy a break" indeed, you don't, lol.

I've already answered this twice elsewhere so you know I don;t suffer from most of them to any marked extent.

You really are sad aren't you, chasing me all round the place with the same post, again, lol.

There, it brought a smile to your face. Take a time out from condemning the world. Your problems are greater than most.
debate_power
Posts: 726
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2/19/2015 2:47:50 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 2/19/2015 6:29:11 AM, MadCornishBiker wrote:
John 4:23-24
ASV(i) 23 But the hour cometh, and now is, when the true worshippers shall worship the Father in spirit and truth: for such doth the Father seek to be his worshippers. 24 God is a Spirit: and they that worship him must worship in spirit and truth.

Baseless prediction of the future with no evidence to speak for it other than "God said it"

Note that in that scripture worshipping with truth is a must, not an option.

Not like you have a choice... can't God see your thoughts? Spooky.

The glory for everything, including our salvation must go to God, though respect for his son's role in it is also important.

Isn't his son him? What?

Remember, Jesus taught us to pray to his father, but also in his name.

What is the point of praying if God can predict your thoughts 14 billion years before you come into existence?

John 14:13-14
ASV(i) 13 And whatsoever ye shall ask in my name, that will I do, that the Father may be glorified in the Son. 14 If ye shall ask anything in my name, that will I do.

Think about that.

(snore) What?

Christ says to ask in his name, but he does not say to ask him.

Why not? Is he not God or something?

He also says that he will do it to his father's glory.

Do what to his father's glory?

Of course, since he is speaking to his chosen 12 he is also making the assumption that whatever they ask will be in line with Jehovah's purpose for them and his creation. As his model prayer, the Lords prayer, shows, he will only give us what we need for now, not what we want, so a prayer for a Mercedes Benz might being you the means to buy a smaller, cheaper, car if you need one to et work to support your family, but greedy prayers are likely to be ignored completely.

Why does anyone need a car in the first place? Also, can you really attribute the money used to purchase said care to God's work when you earned it by yourself while God sat on his divine a55?

Think very carefully about every word of the Lords Prayer. In reality it teaches us a lot more than just the format of a prayer. Lets look at it and break it down.

Righto.

Matthew 6:9-13 ASV(i)

9 After this manner therefore pray ye:

Notice it is "after this manner", not repeating these words like a trained budgie, but using this prayer as a pattern for your own swords to follow, Words said by rote are pointless, a prayer must mean something to each person. It has to be persoianl.

How about your thoughts? Why are they only important when you say them allowed? Can God only hear?

Our Father who art in heaven,

Notice who we are praying to.

Like you could possibly pray to anything else.

Hallowed be thy name.

Notice how the importance of God's holy name, and our making it holy in our lives is placed before all else How many people rally know God's name, or would, if asked, say "Jesus". Whoops. Jesus always put his father first, if we are following Jesus, so must we.

Why does God care? He quite literally has everything and I don't see how words would have any effect on him.

10 Thy kingdom come.

That should be the next most important thing to us, but do we really know what that Kingdom is? What's the point in praying for something if we don;t even know what we are praying for?

My thoughts exactly.

Thy will be done, as in heaven, so on earth

Hopefully by the one who actually has the power to ensure it is done...

In heaven God's will is done from one end to the other, and even Satan, though he doesn't realise it is doing what God wants, because he is concentrating on taunting God and the faithful angels rather than working hard to prove his challenge. God is distracting him for our sakes.

Instead of just exterminating him with a divine thunderbolt, God distracts Satan for the moment so he can continue to lead us astray. Reassuring, huh?

Of course now he has been cast down it is different, but God's will is still being done throughout heaven.

How do you know that?

We are actually praying that everyone on thee planet do God's will for ever, as the faithful Angels do.

Why do you need to? Can't God do something useful for once?

11 Give us this day our daily bread.

In other words the necessities of life, what we actually need, not what we want. Anything over and above that, especially in this time of the end is greed in God's eyes.

Like cheap cars, which are what we need to survive. Don't we WANT to survive???

Of course he will make sure we get more, but we mustn't ask for, or expect, more.

Don't expect anything is more like it.

12 And forgive us our debts, as we also have forgiven our debtors.

What debts? and to whom?

Yeah, really.

The only debts we owe to Jehovah are gratitude obedience to him through love for him, and love for our fellow man, if we are falling short in those areas, we need to ask God's forgiveness, and we will be, we can't help it at present, so God will forgive us as long as we are doing our best.

Why do we owe someone who can do anything anything??? What a jerk.

13 And bring us not into temptation, but deliver us from the evil one

Evil like homosexuality, I assume?

We need God's protection from Satan, and all who follow his ways, even if they don;t know it, and most don't. We are actually asking for God's spirit to guard us, and especially guard our hearts.

So we're essentially paying protection "money" to God. Keep in mind that God created Satan and knew he would fall. God's apparently a mobster.

How much of that do we really understand?

You crack me up.

What is the point in praying if we do not?

There's no point.

The vast majority of Christendom, pray the wrong way, for the wrong things, and to a fake version of God introduced by Satan to destroy as many people as possible.

Evidence? Gallup polls, maybe?

See why, so early in his ministry, Jesus made truth so important? That simple model prayer can lead us into realising how little we know if we actually think about it, and gives us encouragement to fill those gaps in our knowledge.

No it doesn't. It encourages you to base your beliefs on arguments from ignorance.

However, as scripture shows us from beginning to end, God has only ever authorised one path to that knowledge,and in this time of the end that path is the JWs. Satan introduced the confusion into what then became his church, not God's, and since his casting down has added to the confusion by creating not just a few Apostate versions, but thousands, making it harder and harder to find the real one.

So basically, any other type of Christian is the servant of Satan.

He now knows that an oversized ego is not enough to beat God so he is angry, very angry, as Revelation 12 tells us, and he is going to take as many with him as he can, when the sentence he now knows is inevitable is finally passed, and executed.

Ohh, don't hurt God's feelings. He might, you know, destroy the entire world in a flood.
You can call me Mark if you like.
MadCornishBiker
Posts: 23,302
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2/19/2015 5:06:06 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 2/19/2015 2:31:02 PM, Harikrish wrote:
At 2/19/2015 2:23:33 PM, MadCornishBiker wrote:
At 2/19/2015 10:21:56 AM, Harikrish wrote:
At 2/19/2015 6:36:59 AM, JJ50 wrote:
You must have an oversized ego MCB, if you think many of us give any credence to your nonsense. I suggest you get your own life in order instead of preaching!

Give the guy a break.

Here is what he goes through daily because of his clinical depression:

Feelings of sadness, emptiness or unhappiness
Angry outbursts, irritability or frustration, even over small matters
Loss of interest or pleasure in normal activities, such as sex
Sleep disturbances, including insomnia or sleeping too much
Tiredness and lack of energy, so that even small tasks take extra effort
Changes in appetite " often reduced appetite and weight loss, but increased cravings for food and weight gain in some people
Anxiety, agitation or restlessness " for example, excessive worrying, pacing, hand-wringing or an inability to sit still
Slowed thinking, speaking or body movements
Feelings of worthlessness or guilt, fixating on past failures or blaming yourself for things that are not your responsibility
Trouble thinking, concentrating, making decisions and remembering things
Frequent thoughts of death, suicidal thoughts, suicide attempts or suicide
Unexplained physical problems, such as back pain or headaches

You hypocrite, lol "give the guy a break" indeed, you don't, lol.

I've already answered this twice elsewhere so you know I don;t suffer from most of them to any marked extent.

You really are sad aren't you, chasing me all round the place with the same post, again, lol.

There, it brought a smile to your face. Take a time out from condemning the world. Your problems are greater than most.

No, not really, my problems are nothing like what some would have you believe, lol.

Your problems are much bigger than mine.
philochristos
Posts: 2,614
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2/19/2015 5:24:35 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 2/19/2015 6:29:11 AM, MadCornishBiker wrote:

John 14:13-14
ASV(i) 13 And whatsoever ye shall ask in my name, that will I do, that the Father may be glorified in the Son. 14 If ye shall ask anything in my name, that will I do.

Think about that.

Christ says to ask in his name, but he does not say to ask him.

There's actually a textual variant at John 14:14. Some manuscripts have "me" so that it reads, "If you ask ME anything in my name, I will do it," and others omit "me." Pretty much all textual critics agree that "me" is in the original. It is not in the KJV because it was not in the Textus Receptus. But it IS found in the Nestle Aland 28th edition, the United Bible Society 4th edition, and in the Majority Text. It is also found in Westcott and Hort, which is what the New World Translation was translated from, which shows that the translators of the NWT left it out for theological reasons, not because they were faithfully following the Greek.
"Not to know of what things one should demand demonstration, and of what one should not, argues want of education." ~Aristotle

"It is the mark of an educated mind to be able to entertain a thought without accepting it." ~Aristotle
MadCornishBiker
Posts: 23,302
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2/19/2015 6:54:07 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 2/19/2015 5:24:35 PM, philochristos wrote:
At 2/19/2015 6:29:11 AM, MadCornishBiker wrote:

John 14:13-14
ASV(i) 13 And whatsoever ye shall ask in my name, that will I do, that the Father may be glorified in the Son. 14 If ye shall ask anything in my name, that will I do.

Think about that.

Christ says to ask in his name, but he does not say to ask him.

There's actually a textual variant at John 14:14. Some manuscripts have "me" so that it reads, "If you ask ME anything in my name, I will do it," and others omit "me." Pretty much all textual critics agree that "me" is in the original. It is not in the KJV because it was not in the Textus Receptus. But it IS found in the Nestle Aland 28th edition, the United Bible Society 4th edition, and in the Majority Text. It is also found in Westcott and Hort, which is what the New World Translation was translated from, which shows that the translators of the NWT left it out for theological reasons, not because they were faithfully following the Greek.

Interesting.

John 14:14
YLT(i) 14 if ye ask anything in my name I will do it .

Not i the above literal translation

John 14:14
ALT(i) 14 "If youp ask {Me} anything in My name I will do [it].

It that one, but marked as an addition.

John 14:14
CLV(i) 14 If you should ever be requesting anything of Me in My name, this I will be doing."

Interesting variations, so how do you decide which one is right?

I don't trust bible commentators because because as other things show, and the Analytical Literal Translation seems to indicate, it is always possible that the word "me" was added to back up the trinity teaching. It's easy to prove they have done so before., though they may have been doing so to "make things clearer".

Howver think about thatstatement.

If yu ask me in my name.

Surely if you ask Christ i you are automatically asking in Christ's name anyway?

What that version is actually saying is that you should say "Jesus, may I ask please in Jesus name for .................?"

It does not really make sense.

Of course if you were to say "Jehovah, may I ask in Jesus name............................."

That makes much more sense don't you think?

Just saying whatever you ask in my name, doesn't say who to ask but it does give the impression that you are asking someone else.

It certainly makes even more sense when you realise that you are asking the one who you see as the source of all thins through the name of the one who bought us the right to do so.

What do you think?
philochristos
Posts: 2,614
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2/19/2015 8:36:46 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 2/19/2015 6:54:07 PM, MadCornishBiker wrote:

Interesting variations, so how do you decide which one is right?

That's the job of textual critics. There's a lot that goes into it. Some of the factors include which variation shows up most frequently in the manuscript evidence, which variation is earliest, which variation makes the most sense textually, which variation shows up in texts that otherwise are considered to be the most reliable, etc. There is a pretty strong consensus in favor of including "me," which is why it shows up in the NA28, USB4, Majority Text, and Wescott & Hort.

I don't trust bible commentators because because as other things show, and the Analytical Literal Translation seems to indicate, it is always possible that the word "me" was added to back up the trinity teaching. It's easy to prove they have done so before., though they may have been doing so to "make things clearer".

It's textual critics who determine these things, not Bible commentators. If you can't rely on textual critics, then you have no basis for trusting the New World Translation since the New World Translation was based on the findings of textual critics. Besides, your argument cuts both ways. "Me" could've been omitted because of an anti-trinitarian bias. In fact, that appears to be why it was omitted in the NWT. As I said before, the NWT was translated from Westcott and Hort, which includes "me," but the translators of the NWT omitted it anyway.

Howver think about thatstatement.

If yu ask me in my name.

Surely if you ask Christ i you are automatically asking in Christ's name anyway?

What that version is actually saying is that you should say "Jesus, may I ask please in Jesus name for .................?"

It does not really make sense.

Of course if you were to say "Jehovah, may I ask in Jesus name............................."

That makes much more sense don't you think?

Just saying whatever you ask in my name, doesn't say who to ask but it does give the impression that you are asking someone else.

It certainly makes even more sense when you realise that you are asking the one who you see as the source of all thins through the name of the one who bought us the right to do so.

What do you think?

Scholars agree that it's a little awkward to say, "Ask me in my name," but it's not without precedent to do such a thing. A similar thing shows up in Psalm 15:11, 31:3, and 79:9 where prayer is made to God for his name's sake.

However, placing "Me" in there also makes sense out of the rest of the sentence which has Jesus answering the prayer.

John 14:14 "Ask me anything in my name, and I will do it."

Compare that to John 15:16, in which it is the Father who answers the prayer:

John 15:16 ". . .whatever you ask of the Father in my name, he may give it to you."

Also. . .

John 16:23 "Truly truly I say to you, if you ask the Father for anything in my name, He will give it to you."

In both cases, the prayer is addressed to the Father, and the Father is the one who answers it, so it makes sense that if Jesus is answering the prayer in John 14:14, then Jesus is the one the prayer is addressed to.
"Not to know of what things one should demand demonstration, and of what one should not, argues want of education." ~Aristotle

"It is the mark of an educated mind to be able to entertain a thought without accepting it." ~Aristotle
annanicole
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2/19/2015 10:44:41 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 2/19/2015 6:29:11 AM, MadCornishBiker wrote:

10 Thy kingdom come.

That should be the next most important thing to us, but do we really know what that Kingdom is?

Tell 'em, MadCornish. Explain to 'em how Jesus "turned His attention toward earth" in 1919, looked around to see who was faithfully following Biblical teachings, and (to everyone's amazement) chose the WatchTower in Brooklyn.

"When the enthroned Lord Jesus inspected his household in 1919, he found the group of Christians associated with the Watchtower magazine loyally striving to 'keep on the watch' with the help of spiritual 'food at the proper time'." - "Watchtower 12-01-1984, p.17

It would help to know some of the great things that the WatchTower was teaching in 1919 that impressed the Lord so much, teachings which distinguished them from other "Christian" religions. Unfortunately, MadCornish doesn't much care for much of what the WatchTower was teaching in 1919, even though the Lord was mighty pleased with it.
Madcornishbiker: "No, I don't need a dictionary, I know how scripture uses words and that is all I need to now."
MadCornishBiker
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2/20/2015 5:23:02 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 2/19/2015 10:44:41 PM, annanicole wrote:
At 2/19/2015 6:29:11 AM, MadCornishBiker wrote:

10 Thy kingdom come.

That should be the next most important thing to us, but do we really know what that Kingdom is?

Tell 'em, MadCornish. Explain to 'em how Jesus "turned His attention toward earth" in 1919, looked around to see who was faithfully following Biblical teachings, and (to everyone's amazement) chose the WatchTower in Brooklyn.


"When the enthroned Lord Jesus inspected his household in 1919, he found the group of Christians associated with the Watchtower magazine loyally striving to 'keep on the watch' with the help of spiritual 'food at the proper time'." - "Watchtower 12-01-1984, p.17

It would help to know some of the great things that the WatchTower was teaching in 1919 that impressed the Lord so much, teachings which distinguished them from other "Christian" religions. Unfortunately, MadCornish doesn't much care for much of what the WatchTower was teaching in 1919, even though the Lord was mighty pleased with it.

It is more important to see those things in scripture, which is where they come from, but thanks for telling them for me, it shows that you know the truth even if you refuse to believe it.

Who said God or his son were pleased with it?

What they were pleased with was the motivation of the Brothers. Their ignorance at the time was obviously not helping, but ignorance is something which can be slowly overcome as and when needed, wrong attitudes such as yours are far harder to deal with.

No-one denies they had a lot to learn Anna, least of all them, but learn it they did with the aid of God and Christ though holy spirit, to their benefit and to God's glory.

You really can't resist turning anything into an attack on God and Christ's servants on the earth. You don't appear to care that doing so makes you a fighter against God and one who, rather than gathering with Christ as they are, determinedly scatters to the delight of Satan.

How will you explain to Christ at the judgement your delight in scattering those who might otherwise have become his servants?

I hope you have a good excuse ready, you'll need a doozy.
MadCornishBiker
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2/20/2015 5:27:44 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 2/19/2015 8:53:18 PM, ReformedPresbyterian72598 wrote:
Matthew 6:13 - And lead us not into temptation, but deliver us from evil.
Where are you getting "the evil one"?

In that case, from the American Standard Version, however, whether you are saying t Evil, or The Evil One, you are saying the same thing in the end because all evil stems from him.

There appears to be no consensus on the exact wording between the many translations, but as I say, in the end it makes no difference to the basic meaning.
MadCornishBiker
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2/20/2015 5:52:13 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 2/19/2015 8:56:13 PM, ReformedPresbyterian72598 wrote:
http://www.jesus-is-savior.com...

nvm, I know why.

According to scripture Jehovah is our saviour, through the sacrifice of his son. It is consistent throughout the Christian Greek Scriptures that the Apostles thank God (Jehovahj) for salvation thorough Christ, or even for Christ, but as scripture tells us, all glory should always go to Jehovah who will share his glory with none, not even his own son.

Romans 5:1
ASV(i) 1 Being therefore justified by faith, we have peace with God through our Lord Jesus Christ;

That is typical of the Christian Greek Scriptures, always putting God before Christ.

That is what makes it so obvious that the teaching of the Trinity is inherently anti-scripture and therefore Anti-Christ.

1 Peter 1:3
ASV(i) 3 Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who according to his great mercy begat us again unto a living hope by the resurrection of Jesus Christ from the dead,

Again typical of teh Apostles belssing God for providing us with hope through his son.

In fact Colossians 1:13-20
ASV(i) 13 who delivered us out of the power of darkness, and translated us into the kingdom of the Son of his love; 14 in whom we have our redemption, the forgiveness of our sins: 15 who is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn of all creation; 16 for in him were all things created, in the heavens and upon the earth, things visible and things invisible, whether thrones or dominions or principalities or powers; all things have been created through him, and unto him; 17 and he is before all things, and in him all things consist. 18 And he is the head of the body, the church: who is the beginning, the firstborn from the dead; that in all things he might have the preeminence. 19 For it was the good pleasure of the Father that in him should all the fulness dwell; 20 and through him to reconcile all things unto himself, having made peace through the blood of his cross; through him, I say, whether things upon the earth, or things in the heavens.

Goes so far as to tell us that Gods son was the one that God created everything through, since, as John 1:14, and Revelation 3:14 tells us that his son was his first, and apparently was the only one God created completely alone.

That is why Paul quoted Joel 2:32 ASV(i) 32 And it shall come to pass, that whosoever shall call on the name of Jehovah shall be delivered; for in mount Zion and in Jerusalem there shall be those that escape, as Jehovah hath said, and among the remnant those whom Jehovah doth call.

Because just as Christ taught us to pray to his father (Jehovah) in his name, so we are taught to call to Jehovah for aid.

One reason God hates all translations that have removed his name, in any language version ,is that they take away the glory that is due to him.

You can guarantee that Christ hates them also. After all he spent most of his time on earth bringing praise to his Father and making his name known, so why should he like those who are dishonest enough to hide his father's name?

That is why I normally only use either the NWT or the ASV, except for comparison purposes, because they are the only two remotely honest Translations that there are, and God insists on honesty, as Christ said at John 4:23-24.
JJ50
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2/20/2015 5:54:58 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 2/19/2015 9:33:35 AM, MadCornishBiker wrote:
At 2/19/2015 6:36:59 AM, JJ50 wrote:
You must have an oversized ego MCB, if you think many of us give any credence to your nonsense. I suggest you get your own life in order instead of preaching!

No I have no ego, I could not give myself over to God completely if I did.

God, Christ, and scripture are my life now and I want no other.

Of course you have a HUGE ego as you don't question the JW garbage you spout, you think it is factual, even though you can't provide any verifiable evidence to support it!
MadCornishBiker
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2/20/2015 6:43:44 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 2/19/2015 8:36:46 PM, philochristos wrote:
At 2/19/2015 6:54:07 PM, MadCornishBiker wrote:


That's the job of textual critics. There's a lot that goes into it. Some of the factors include which variation shows up most frequently in the manuscript evidence, which variation is earliest, which variation makes the most sense textually, which variation shows up in texts that otherwise are considered to be the most reliable, etc. There is a pretty strong consensus in favor of including "me," which is why it shows up in the NA28, USB4, Majority Text, and Wescott & Hort.

Actually no, it isn't. Textural Critics cannot be trusted because eahc will often put thier own spin on it.

The way to decide is more simple than that but does require good scriptural knowledge.

It is by comparing how each particular understanding fits into the whole pattern of scripture from Genesis to Revelation.

For instance it is easy to see that the version of John 1:1 accepted by most textural critics is far from the right one, since is clashes with all but the most unambiguous statements about the relationship between God and his son in the whole of scripture.

He is called "The Word", not because he is God, but because, since Adam's fall, he has been the spokesman for, and representative of, God in all dealings with humanity, and will continue to be so until mankind is returned to a suitable state of holiness for God to deal with us directly again. That is, of course, when he hands the Kingdom back to his father as described, in detail, the last 3 chapters of Revelation.

Scripture can, and will, interpret itself with God's aid though holy spirit.

James 1:5-8.


It's textual critics who determine these things, not Bible commentators. If you can't rely on textual critics, then you have no basis for trusting the New World Translation since the New World Translation was based on the findings of textual critics. Besides, your argument cuts both ways. "Me" could've been omitted because of an anti-trinitarian bias. In fact, that appears to be why it was omitted in the NWT. As I said before, the NWT was translated from Westcott and Hort, which includes "me," but the translators of the NWT omitted it anyway.

The only basis for trusting any translation, including the NWT is it's own integrity and harmony.

Scripture is inspired by God, albeit messed abut by men and under the influence of Satan, which includes the vast majority of textural critics.

This why Paul said:

Ephesians 6:12-17
ASV(i) 12 For our wrestling is not against flesh and blood, but against the principalities, against the powers, against the world-rulers of this darkness, against the spiritual hosts of wickedness in the heavenly places. 13 Wherefore take up the whole armor of God, that ye may be able to withstand in the evil day, and, having done all, to stand. 14 Stand therefore, having girded your loins with truth, and having put on the breastplate of righteousness, 15 and having shod your feet with the preparation of the gospel of peace; 16 withal taking up the shield of faith, wherewith ye shall be able to quench all the fiery darts of the evil one. 17 And take the helmet of salvation, and the sword of the Spirit, which is the word of God:

No man, not even a JW should be trusted fully, only God and Christ are worthy of our trust, so if you want to understand scripture do what scripture itself tells us.

Pray to Jehovah for his wisdom - .James 1:5-8
ASV(i) 5 But if any of you lacketh wisdom, let him ask of God, who giveth to all liberally and upbraideth not; and it shall be given him. 6 But let him ask in faith, nothing doubting: for he that doubteth is like the surge of the sea driven by the wind and tossed. 7 For let not that man think that he shall receive anything of the Lord; 8 a doubleminded man, unstable in all his ways.

Accept the guidance of his spirit - 1 Corinthians 2:11-16
ASV(i) 11 For who among men knoweth the things of a man, save the spirit of the man, which is in him? even so the things of God none knoweth, save the Spirit of God. 12 But we received, not the spirit of the world, but the spirit which is from God; that we might know the things that were freely given to us of God. 13 Which things also we speak, not in words which mans wisdom teacheth, but which the Spirit teacheth; combining spiritual things with spiritual words. 14 Now the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him; and he cannot know them, because they are spiritually judged. 15 But he that is spiritual judgeth all things, and he himself is judged of no man. 16 For who hath known the mind of the Lord, that he should instruct him? But we have the mind of Christ.

Use a good reference bible with cross references.

How does God's spirit work with us?

Well Paul hints in the above passage, but he tells us plainly, in a different context that God's spirit "bears Witness with our spirit".


Scholars agree that it's a little awkward to say, "Ask me in my name," but it's not without precedent to do such a thing. A similar thing shows up in Psalm 15:11, 31:3, and 79:9 where prayer is made to God for his name's sake.


Interesting.

Psalm 15 only has 5 verses. At least not in teh two most honest translations that exist.

Psalm 31:3 is nothing like the same since David is not asking the prayer in Jehovah's name but asking him to do it for his names sake, for the reputation that goes with that name.

However, placing "Me" in there also makes sense out of the rest of the sentence which has Jesus answering the prayer.

John 14:14 "Ask me anything in my name, and I will do it."

Compare that to John 15:16, in which it is the Father who answers the prayer:

John 15:16 ". . .whatever you ask of the Father in my name, he may give it to you."

Actually no, it doesn't, because in John 15:16 it is saying to ask the father, not "me", which of course is the son incarnate, the Christ.

In John 14, teh rest of teh surrounding verses also show a complete distinction between God and his son.

Also. . .

John 16:23 "Truly truly I say to you, if you ask the Father for anything in my name, He will give it to you."

In both cases, the prayer is addressed to the Father, and the Father is the one who answers it, so it makes sense that if Jesus is answering the prayer in John 14:14, then Jesus is the one the prayer is addressed to.

No because Christ lways actually answers all prayers at his fathers command and under his father's direcetion, but we still need to ask his faher so that he will instruct his son to do so.

This is made evidence by the fact that, as scripture shows, God has been unable to deal directly with mankind since Adams fall made us too unholy for him to do so, and his son has been his "word" or spokesman ever since, and until he hands the kingdom back to his father.

Sorry, but you really do need to forsake the words of men and rely on God and Christ to guide you, and, as always, they only have one human channel. I have proved that to be the JWs, but you must make up your own mind and prove or disprove it to yourself.

So far, everything I have learned with their help has fit in completely with scripture and it's base meanings, it's substance, essence. Psalms 119:160 ASV(i) 160 The sum of thy word is truth; And every one of thy righteous ordinances endureth for ever.
MadCornishBiker
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2/20/2015 6:45:51 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 2/20/2015 5:54:58 AM, JJ50 wrote:
At 2/19/2015 9:33:35 AM, MadCornishBiker wrote:
At 2/19/2015 6:36:59 AM, JJ50 wrote:
You must have an oversized ego MCB, if you think many of us give any credence to your nonsense. I suggest you get your own life in order instead of preaching!

No I have no ego, I could not give myself over to God completely if I did.

God, Christ, and scripture are my life now and I want no other.

Of course you have a HUGE ego as you don't question the JW garbage you spout, you think it is factual, even though you can't provide any verifiable evidence to support it!

Oh I question it continually, as I question my own beliefs. Scripture commands us to do so.

God and Christ do not believe I have a huge ego, and their judgement is good enough for me. I do not boast in myself, only in God and Christ.

Still you have a right to your opinion.
bulproof
Posts: 25,197
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2/20/2015 7:11:41 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
Do we need to know which Catholic wrote it?
Cos the entire bible is the work of the Catholics.
Damn that makes you mad!!
Religion is just mind control. George Carlin
MadCornishBiker
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2/20/2015 7:27:32 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 2/20/2015 7:11:41 AM, bulproof wrote:
Do we need to know which Catholic wrote it?
Cos the entire bible is the work of the Catholics.
Damn that makes you mad!!

No,they only compiled it, and made some pretty inaccurate translations of it, but try as they might they couldn't hide the truth in it.

God made sure of that.
bulproof
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2/20/2015 7:46:19 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 2/20/2015 7:27:32 AM, MadCornishBiker wrote:
At 2/20/2015 7:11:41 AM, bulproof wrote:
Do we need to know which Catholic wrote it?
Cos the entire bible is the work of the Catholics.
Damn that makes you mad!!

No,they only compiled it, and made some pretty inaccurate translations of it, but try as they might they couldn't hide the truth in it.

God made sure of that.

So you've seen the originals and therefore know what the real translations say?
Religion is just mind control. George Carlin
JJ50
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2/20/2015 7:50:54 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
MCB and the deity are buddies, he knows exactly what it is thinking, because he has created his own version of it, lol!
bulproof
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2/20/2015 7:56:26 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 2/20/2015 7:50:54 AM, JJ50 wrote:
MCB and the deity are buddies, he knows exactly what it is thinking, because he has created his own version of it, lol!

Mad is his deity.
Religion is just mind control. George Carlin
MadCornishBiker
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2/20/2015 12:08:51 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 2/20/2015 7:50:54 AM, JJ50 wrote:
MCB and the deity are buddies, he knows exactly what it is thinking, because he has created his own version of it, lol!

Lol, in your dreams
MadCornishBiker
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2/20/2015 12:11:22 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 2/20/2015 7:46:19 AM, bulproof wrote:
At 2/20/2015 7:27:32 AM, MadCornishBiker wrote:
At 2/20/2015 7:11:41 AM, bulproof wrote:
Do we need to know which Catholic wrote it?
Cos the entire bible is the work of the Catholics.
Damn that makes you mad!!

No,they only compiled it, and made some pretty inaccurate translations of it, but try as they might they couldn't hide the truth in it.

God made sure of that.

So you've seen the originals and therefore know what the real translations say?

No, it's a lot simpler than that.

You know if you have got the right meaning if it adds to the overall sense and harmony of scripture, and not if you haven't.

That is how God inspired it, but you need God's spirit to do it.
annanicole
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2/20/2015 1:09:59 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 2/20/2015 5:23:02 AM, MadCornishBiker wrote:
At 2/19/2015 10:44:41 PM, annanicole wrote:
At 2/19/2015 6:29:11 AM, MadCornishBiker wrote:

10 Thy kingdom come.

That should be the next most important thing to us, but do we really know what that Kingdom is?

Tell 'em, MadCornish. Explain to 'em how Jesus "turned His attention toward earth" in 1919, looked around to see who was faithfully following Biblical teachings, and (to everyone's amazement) chose the WatchTower in Brooklyn.


"When the enthroned Lord Jesus inspected his household in 1919, he found the group of Christians associated with the Watchtower magazine loyally striving to 'keep on the watch' with the help of spiritual 'food at the proper time'." - "Watchtower 12-01-1984, p.17

It would help to know some of the great things that the WatchTower was teaching in 1919 that impressed the Lord so much, teachings which distinguished them from other "Christian" religions. Unfortunately, MadCornish doesn't much care for much of what the WatchTower was teaching in 1919, even though the Lord was mighty pleased with it.

It is more important to see those things in scripture, which is where they come from, but thanks for telling them for me, it shows that you know the truth even if you refuse to believe it.

Thanks for confirming it. Can you tell us exactly what the Bible teaches would happen in 1919 - and why?

Further, who said that Christ was inspecting for "motivation", not "what they were preaching"?
Madcornishbiker: "No, I don't need a dictionary, I know how scripture uses words and that is all I need to now."
annanicole
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2/20/2015 2:28:06 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 2/20/2015 5:23:02 AM, MadCornishBiker wrote:
At 2/19/2015 10:44:41 PM, annanicole wrote:
At 2/19/2015 6:29:11 AM, MadCornishBiker wrote:

10 Thy kingdom come.

That should be the next most important thing to us, but do we really know what that Kingdom is?

Tell 'em, MadCornish. Explain to 'em how Jesus "turned His attention toward earth" in 1919, looked around to see who was faithfully following Biblical teachings, and (to everyone's amazement) chose the WatchTower in Brooklyn.


"When the enthroned Lord Jesus inspected his household in 1919, he found the group of Christians associated with the Watchtower magazine loyally striving to 'keep on the watch' with the help of spiritual 'food at the proper time'." - "Watchtower 12-01-1984, p.17

It would help to know some of the great things that the WatchTower was teaching in 1919 that impressed the Lord so much, teachings which distinguished them from other "Christian" religions. Unfortunately, MadCornish doesn't much care for much of what the WatchTower was teaching in 1919, even though the Lord was mighty pleased with it.

It is more important to see those things in scripture, which is where they come from, but thanks for telling them for me, it shows that you know the truth even if you refuse to believe it.

Who said God or his son were pleased with it?

What they were pleased with was the motivation of the Brothers. Their ignorance at the time was obviously not helping, but ignorance is something which can be slowly overcome as and when needed, wrong attitudes such as yours are far harder to deal with.

They weren't exactly ignorant. "Ignorant" is what the run-of-the-mill Russellite is. No, these LEADERS, especially Rutherford, were loudly proclaiming false teachings to everyone within earshot. But the Lord overlooked that little detail, but was pleased with their "motivation."

They declared themselves to be "the faithful and discreet slave", yet a broad perusal of their teachings at the time reveals that they were anything but faithful. Your contention is absolutely ridiculous: "From 1914 - 1918, God overlooked the fact that these folks were teaching one error after another, but he was happy with their 'motivation'." Now ... I think anyone can recognize that for the crock that it is.
Madcornishbiker: "No, I don't need a dictionary, I know how scripture uses words and that is all I need to now."