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Christianity, Fact or fiction.

Siladheil
Posts: 23
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2/19/2015 10:33:50 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
I am an Atheist. I am one who refuses to believe in a higher power until the evidence is presented to me and an undeniable omnipotent being is in front of me.

My wife, however, is a devout Christian. She takes every opportunity to attempt to persuade me to turn myself to Christianity and follow the gospel. I've seen quite a few movies that she's persuaded me into watching: God's Not Dead, Heaven is for Real, Left Behind, among others that I can't remember off the top of my head.

In an attempt to appease my wife, I brought forth the following compromise: I would read three books and form my decision after I finished them. The books are as follows: The New Evidence That Demands a Verdict, the King James' Old Testimate, and the King James New Testimate.

I am struggling to read these books due to the fact that I counter argue each and every point that I read. I'm about a quarter of the way through the Evidence book. I would like to open a forum topic and discuss whether or not there is any ground or logic behind the Christian God.
"Give a man a match, and he'll be warm for a minute, but set him on fire,
and he'll be warm for the rest of his life." ~ Anonymous
DanneJeRusse
Posts: 12,623
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2/19/2015 10:40:55 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 2/19/2015 10:33:50 AM, Siladheil wrote:
I am an Atheist. I am one who refuses to believe in a higher power until the evidence is presented to me and an undeniable omnipotent being is in front of me.

My wife, however, is a devout Christian. She takes every opportunity to attempt to persuade me to turn myself to Christianity and follow the gospel. I've seen quite a few movies that she's persuaded me into watching: God's Not Dead, Heaven is for Real, Left Behind, among others that I can't remember off the top of my head.

In an attempt to appease my wife, I brought forth the following compromise: I would read three books and form my decision after I finished them. The books are as follows: The New Evidence That Demands a Verdict, the King James' Old Testimate, and the King James New Testimate.

I am struggling to read these books due to the fact that I counter argue each and every point that I read. I'm about a quarter of the way through the Evidence book. I would like to open a forum topic and discuss whether or not there is any ground or logic behind the Christian God.

No grounds or logic whatsoever. Divorce your wife. ;)
Marrying a 6 year old and waiting until she reaches puberty and maturity before having consensual sex is better than walking up to
a stranger in a bar and proceeding to have relations with no valid proof of the intent of the person. Muhammad wins. ~ Fatihah
If they don't want to be killed then they have to subdue to the Islamic laws. - Uncung
Without God, you are lower than sh!t. ~ SpiritandTruth
Siladheil
Posts: 23
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2/19/2015 10:43:31 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 2/19/2015 10:40:55 AM, DanneJeRusse wrote:
At 2/19/2015 10:33:50 AM, Siladheil wrote:
I am an Atheist. I am one who refuses to believe in a higher power until the evidence is presented to me and an undeniable omnipotent being is in front of me.

My wife, however, is a devout Christian. She takes every opportunity to attempt to persuade me to turn myself to Christianity and follow the gospel. I've seen quite a few movies that she's persuaded me into watching: God's Not Dead, Heaven is for Real, Left Behind, among others that I can't remember off the top of my head.

In an attempt to appease my wife, I brought forth the following compromise: I would read three books and form my decision after I finished them. The books are as follows: The New Evidence That Demands a Verdict, the King James' Old Testimate, and the King James New Testimate.

I am struggling to read these books due to the fact that I counter argue each and every point that I read. I'm about a quarter of the way through the Evidence book. I would like to open a forum topic and discuss whether or not there is any ground or logic behind the Christian God.

No grounds or logic whatsoever. Divorce your wife. ;)

I love my wife very much and would not divorce her over something as small or insignificant as the religion she follows. I understand you're attempting a joke, but I'm seriously looking for answers here and I hope it is a thought provoking topic and that I can learn a lot from what is posted on this forum.
"Give a man a match, and he'll be warm for a minute, but set him on fire,
and he'll be warm for the rest of his life." ~ Anonymous
heart_of_the_matter
Posts: 408
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2/19/2015 10:43:57 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 2/19/2015 10:33:50 AM, Siladheil wrote:
I am an Atheist. I am one who refuses to believe in a higher power until the evidence is presented to me and an undeniable omnipotent being is in front of me.

My wife, however, is a devout Christian. She takes every opportunity to attempt to persuade me to turn myself to Christianity and follow the gospel. I've seen quite a few movies that she's persuaded me into watching: God's Not Dead, Heaven is for Real, Left Behind, among others that I can't remember off the top of my head.

In an attempt to appease my wife, I brought forth the following compromise: I would read three books and form my decision after I finished them. The books are as follows: The New Evidence That Demands a Verdict, the King James' Old Testimate, and the King James New Testimate.

I am struggling to read these books due to the fact that I counter argue each and every point that I read. I'm about a quarter of the way through the Evidence book. I would like to open a forum topic and discuss whether or not there is any ground or logic behind the Christian God.

Of course there is logic behind the Christian God.
You seek proof of God...that is a logical desire...
Have you prayed and asked God for knowledge concerning the matter?
that would be a good first step if you have not done that...ask God about Jesus Christ also, ask God which Church is His...
Because think of it this way...If God allows freedom (and He does) He isn't going to FORCE anyone to believe---if someone doesn't WANT to know and God gives people what they want...then.............however...if someone WANTS to know and God gives that person what they want....
the question comes down to...do you want to really know?
If you do...ask God....and you shall receive

Matthew 7: 7 "Ask, and it shall be given you; seek, and ye shall find; knock, and it shall be opened unto you:

James 1: 5 If any of you lack wisdom, let him ask of God, that giveth to all men liberally, and upbraideth not; and it shall be given him.
Siladheil
Posts: 23
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2/19/2015 10:46:20 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 2/19/2015 10:43:57 AM, heart_of_the_matter wrote:
At 2/19/2015 10:33:50 AM, Siladheil wrote:
I am an Atheist. I am one who refuses to believe in a higher power until the evidence is presented to me and an undeniable omnipotent being is in front of me.

My wife, however, is a devout Christian. She takes every opportunity to attempt to persuade me to turn myself to Christianity and follow the gospel. I've seen quite a few movies that she's persuaded me into watching: God's Not Dead, Heaven is for Real, Left Behind, among others that I can't remember off the top of my head.

In an attempt to appease my wife, I brought forth the following compromise: I would read three books and form my decision after I finished them. The books are as follows: The New Evidence That Demands a Verdict, the King James' Old Testimate, and the King James New Testimate.

I am struggling to read these books due to the fact that I counter argue each and every point that I read. I'm about a quarter of the way through the Evidence book. I would like to open a forum topic and discuss whether or not there is any ground or logic behind the Christian God.

Of course there is logic behind the Christian God.
You seek proof of God...that is a logical desire...
Have you prayed and asked God for knowledge concerning the matter?
that would be a good first step if you have not done that...ask God about Jesus Christ also, ask God which Church is His...
Because think of it this way...If God allows freedom (and He does) He isn't going to FORCE anyone to believe---if someone doesn't WANT to know and God gives people what they want...then.............however...if someone WANTS to know and God gives that person what they want....
the question comes down to...do you want to really know?
If you do...ask God....and you shall receive

Matthew 7: 7 "Ask, and it shall be given you; seek, and ye shall find; knock, and it shall be opened unto you:

James 1: 5 If any of you lack wisdom, let him ask of God, that giveth to all men liberally, and upbraideth not; and it shall be given him.

That, however, is the problem, I'm not going to ask something that I do not believe in to help me believe. That seems illogical to me as nothing will happen.
"Give a man a match, and he'll be warm for a minute, but set him on fire,
and he'll be warm for the rest of his life." ~ Anonymous
Ragnar
Posts: 1,658
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2/19/2015 10:50:43 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
You don't need to believe, to support her partaking in faith (so long as it's a healthy part of her life).

Maybe focus on the points you and her can agree on, like the influence of the historical Jesus.
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JJ50
Posts: 2,144
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2/19/2015 10:52:42 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 2/19/2015 10:33:50 AM, Siladheil wrote:
I am an Atheist. I am one who refuses to believe in a higher power until the evidence is presented to me and an undeniable omnipotent being is in front of me.

My wife, however, is a devout Christian. She takes every opportunity to attempt to persuade me to turn myself to Christianity and follow the gospel. I've seen quite a few movies that she's persuaded me into watching: God's Not Dead, Heaven is for Real, Left Behind, among others that I can't remember off the top of my head.

In an attempt to appease my wife, I brought forth the following compromise: I would read three books and form my decision after I finished them. The books are as follows: The New Evidence That Demands a Verdict, the King James' Old Testimate, and the King James New Testimate.

I am struggling to read these books due to the fact that I counter argue each and every point that I read. I'm about a quarter of the way through the Evidence book. I would like to open a forum topic and discuss whether or not there is any ground or logic behind the Christian God.

I was a 'born again' Christian as a young person having been force fed the dogma from birth. However the more I questioned it and actually read the Bible from cover to cover, not just listening to the sound bites the more the doubts became overwhelming. I lost my faith as I couldn't reconcile the Biblical with any form of logic. I have read the Bible many times in my 65 years and continue to do so. The more I read it the more convinced I am that it is wholly the work of its human authors, with no input from any deity. I believe Jesus was human with faults and failings like the rest of us. He may have had a charismatic personality, which is why he had followers, but the tales created about him are the work of fiction.
Siladheil
Posts: 23
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2/19/2015 10:55:26 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 2/19/2015 10:50:43 AM, Ragnar wrote:
You don't need to believe, to support her partaking in faith (so long as it's a healthy part of her life).

Maybe focus on the points you and her can agree on, like the influence of the historical Jesus.

I fully support her decision to follow her religion. If that is what she needs to be happy, then I fully encourage her to follow her path. I even encourage her to go to church on Sundays. I will not go to church every Sunday, but I have told her that I will go with her to church on Easter Sunday and Christmas. I know this isn't an advice column, but I'm attempting to bring logical discussions to light.
"Give a man a match, and he'll be warm for a minute, but set him on fire,
and he'll be warm for the rest of his life." ~ Anonymous
heart_of_the_matter
Posts: 408
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2/19/2015 10:56:31 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 2/19/2015 10:46:20 AM, Siladheil wrote:
At 2/19/2015 10:43:57 AM, heart_of_the_matter wrote:
At 2/19/2015 10:33:50 AM, Siladheil wrote:
I am an Atheist. I am one who refuses to believe in a higher power until the evidence is presented to me and an undeniable omnipotent being is in front of me.

My wife, however, is a devout Christian. She takes every opportunity to attempt to persuade me to turn myself to Christianity and follow the gospel. I've seen quite a few movies that she's persuaded me into watching: God's Not Dead, Heaven is for Real, Left Behind, among others that I can't remember off the top of my head.

In an attempt to appease my wife, I brought forth the following compromise: I would read three books and form my decision after I finished them. The books are as follows: The New Evidence That Demands a Verdict, the King James' Old Testimate, and the King James New Testimate.

I am struggling to read these books due to the fact that I counter argue each and every point that I read. I'm about a quarter of the way through the Evidence book. I would like to open a forum topic and discuss whether or not there is any ground or logic behind the Christian God.

Of course there is logic behind the Christian God.
You seek proof of God...that is a logical desire...
Have you prayed and asked God for knowledge concerning the matter?
that would be a good first step if you have not done that...ask God about Jesus Christ also, ask God which Church is His...
Because think of it this way...If God allows freedom (and He does) He isn't going to FORCE anyone to believe---if someone doesn't WANT to know and God gives people what they want...then.............however...if someone WANTS to know and God gives that person what they want....
the question comes down to...do you want to really know?
If you do...ask God....and you shall receive

Matthew 7: 7 "Ask, and it shall be given you; seek, and ye shall find; knock, and it shall be opened unto you:

James 1: 5 If any of you lack wisdom, let him ask of God, that giveth to all men liberally, and upbraideth not; and it shall be given him.

That, however, is the problem, I'm not going to ask something that I do not believe in to help me believe. That seems illogical to me as nothing will happen.

Ok lets examine the 2 possible scenarios a bit:
1. There is not a God.
2. There is a God.

1. There is not a God.

In this case, nothing anyone does would matter at all in the slightest (as far as eternity goes) -once dead that would be it and just blackness and nonexistence after that....if this was true, asking God would be pointless, because there would be no God to answer you and so obviously you would not even get any answers at all....so why even waste that 5minutes of time?

In case #2 - There is a God.

Lets examine 2 ways He may be:

1. He can FORCE people to believe in Him.

If God can do this and MAKE people believe in Him (by revealing Himself to everyone and all His awesome powers) and it would make people believe in Him and be saved...Would He do this?

2. He CANNOT FORCE people to believe in Him.

What if God cannot FORCE people to do things? That would be slavery right?? Making people do stuff for you...Because a perfect God couldn't be a slave master right?

But He would b bound by certain laws....such as - He lets every being be free, and choose for themselves... and He does not force anyone to do anything in even the slightest degree, He has to wait for people to choose first.

-----
well those are some options to consider...If you don't have faith enough to use a little of your time to ask, then...the consequence would be (If situation #2/2nd option is real) then the result will be that you have no promise to get an answer, because you wouldn't have done your part, and God would respect you freedom.
Siladheil
Posts: 23
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2/19/2015 10:59:15 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 2/19/2015 10:52:42 AM, JJ50 wrote:
At 2/19/2015 10:33:50 AM, Siladheil wrote:
I am an Atheist. I am one who refuses to believe in a higher power until the evidence is presented to me and an undeniable omnipotent being is in front of me.

My wife, however, is a devout Christian. She takes every opportunity to attempt to persuade me to turn myself to Christianity and follow the gospel. I've seen quite a few movies that she's persuaded me into watching: God's Not Dead, Heaven is for Real, Left Behind, among others that I can't remember off the top of my head.

In an attempt to appease my wife, I brought forth the following compromise: I would read three books and form my decision after I finished them. The books are as follows: The New Evidence That Demands a Verdict, the King James' Old Testimate, and the King James New Testimate.

I am struggling to read these books due to the fact that I counter argue each and every point that I read. I'm about a quarter of the way through the Evidence book. I would like to open a forum topic and discuss whether or not there is any ground or logic behind the Christian God.

I was a 'born again' Christian as a young person having been force fed the dogma from birth. However the more I questioned it and actually read the Bible from cover to cover, not just listening to the sound bites the more the doubts became overwhelming. I lost my faith as I couldn't reconcile the Biblical with any form of logic. I have read the Bible many times in my 65 years and continue to do so. The more I read it the more convinced I am that it is wholly the work of its human authors, with no input from any deity. I believe Jesus was human with faults and failings like the rest of us. He may have had a charismatic personality, which is why he had followers, but the tales created about him are the work of fiction.

Thank you for your input. I fully agree with you. I believe that there was a man named Jesus who was alive around 2040 some odd years ago and that he did have a very charismatic personality and was able to convince people of many things, but I do not believe that the bible has any actual historical significance. It's a bunch of stories riddled with some good things that a man named Jesus did, as well as a lot of bad things that were used to strike fear into the hearts of those who had to believe in something higher to give their life purpose. I believe the bible was used as a tool to make loyal servants out of the lower/middle class people and ensure that chaos didn't break out everywhere.
"Give a man a match, and he'll be warm for a minute, but set him on fire,
and he'll be warm for the rest of his life." ~ Anonymous
dhardage
Posts: 4,545
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2/19/2015 11:02:32 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
I was born and raised Southern Baptist and left that denomination when I turned about 16. I told my mother and father that I was no longer going to go to church with them and had a pretty serious discussion about it. They wanted to believe it was a phase. Well, I'm 40 years older now and still not back in the fold, as they say.

Christianity, while it has some good parts, is based on nothing but fiction, selective reading, and wishful thinking. It is interpreted in so many different ways, often solely to support the ideology of the individual. I hope your wife is happy with her faith, I know many who are. It can be comforting against the stark realities of life. That said, she is living with a false hope that somehow life will continue after this one ends.

Christianity is a couple of facts and mostly fiction.
Siladheil
Posts: 23
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2/19/2015 11:04:49 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 2/19/2015 10:56:31 AM, heart_of_the_matter wrote:
At 2/19/2015 10:46:20 AM, Siladheil wrote:
At 2/19/2015 10:43:57 AM, heart_of_the_matter wrote:
At 2/19/2015 10:33:50 AM, Siladheil wrote:
I am an Atheist. I am one who refuses to believe in a higher power until the evidence is presented to me and an undeniable omnipotent being is in front of me.

My wife, however, is a devout Christian. She takes every opportunity to attempt to persuade me to turn myself to Christianity and follow the gospel. I've seen quite a few movies that she's persuaded me into watching: God's Not Dead, Heaven is for Real, Left Behind, among others that I can't remember off the top of my head.

In an attempt to appease my wife, I brought forth the following compromise: I would read three books and form my decision after I finished them. The books are as follows: The New Evidence That Demands a Verdict, the King James' Old Testimate, and the King James New Testimate.

I am struggling to read these books due to the fact that I counter argue each and every point that I read. I'm about a quarter of the way through the Evidence book. I would like to open a forum topic and discuss whether or not there is any ground or logic behind the Christian God.

Of course there is logic behind the Christian God.
You seek proof of God...that is a logical desire...
Have you prayed and asked God for knowledge concerning the matter?
that would be a good first step if you have not done that...ask God about Jesus Christ also, ask God which Church is His...
Because think of it this way...If God allows freedom (and He does) He isn't going to FORCE anyone to believe---if someone doesn't WANT to know and God gives people what they want...then.............however...if someone WANTS to know and God gives that person what they want....
the question comes down to...do you want to really know?
If you do...ask God....and you shall receive

Matthew 7: 7 "Ask, and it shall be given you; seek, and ye shall find; knock, and it shall be opened unto you:

James 1: 5 If any of you lack wisdom, let him ask of God, that giveth to all men liberally, and upbraideth not; and it shall be given him.

That, however, is the problem, I'm not going to ask something that I do not believe in to help me believe. That seems illogical to me as nothing will happen.

Ok lets examine the 2 possible scenarios a bit:
1. There is not a God.
2. There is a God.

1. There is not a God.

In this case, nothing anyone does would matter at all in the slightest (as far as eternity goes) -once dead that would be it and just blackness and nonexistence after that....if this was true, asking God would be pointless, because there would be no God to answer you and so obviously you would not even get any answers at all....so why even waste that 5minutes of time?

In case #2 - There is a God.

Lets examine 2 ways He may be:

1. He can FORCE people to believe in Him.

If God can do this and MAKE people believe in Him (by revealing Himself to everyone and all His awesome powers) and it would make people believe in Him and be saved...Would He do this?

2. He CANNOT FORCE people to believe in Him.

What if God cannot FORCE people to do things? That would be slavery right?? Making people do stuff for you...Because a perfect God couldn't be a slave master right?

But He would b bound by certain laws....such as - He lets every being be free, and choose for themselves... and He does not force anyone to do anything in even the slightest degree, He has to wait for people to choose first.

-----
well those are some options to consider...If you don't have faith enough to use a little of your time to ask, then...the consequence would be (If situation #2/2nd option is real) then the result will be that you have no promise to get an answer, because you wouldn't have done your part, and God would respect you freedom.

What you just described to me is a summarized version of Pascal's Wager. Pretty much if there's even 1 billionth of a chance that there is a God and that he could save your soul from salvation for all of eternity, wouldn't you rather side with that belief than to spend the rest of eternity in the pits of hellfire.

I am a firm believer that once you die, that's it. There isn't anymore. Your body goes into the ground to become food for maggots, worms, and other insects. You cease to exist except in the memory of your loved ones. Eventually even your deeds and those who loved you die out with the history of time as well. I'm not saying it's pointless to continue living, but to make the best of what you can while you on this little blue ball.
"Give a man a match, and he'll be warm for a minute, but set him on fire,
and he'll be warm for the rest of his life." ~ Anonymous
Siladheil
Posts: 23
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2/19/2015 11:08:14 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 2/19/2015 11:02:32 AM, dhardage wrote:
I was born and raised Southern Baptist and left that denomination when I turned about 16. I told my mother and father that I was no longer going to go to church with them and had a pretty serious discussion about it. They wanted to believe it was a phase. Well, I'm 40 years older now and still not back in the fold, as they say.

Christianity, while it has some good parts, is based on nothing but fiction, selective reading, and wishful thinking. It is interpreted in so many different ways, often solely to support the ideology of the individual. I hope your wife is happy with her faith, I know many who are. It can be comforting against the stark realities of life. That said, she is living with a false hope that somehow life will continue after this one ends.

Christianity is a couple of facts and mostly fiction.

And that is why I choose to accept her happiness in following religion. I firmly believe that there is nothing after your heart stops beating and if it makes her happy to believe that she's going to have eternal life afterwards, then I see nothing wrong with her following that believe. The biggest concern that I have is that she's going to push her religion on our children (when we do have children) and not really give them an option to decide for themselves.
"Give a man a match, and he'll be warm for a minute, but set him on fire,
and he'll be warm for the rest of his life." ~ Anonymous
DanneJeRusse
Posts: 12,623
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2/19/2015 11:14:07 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 2/19/2015 10:43:31 AM, Siladheil wrote:
At 2/19/2015 10:40:55 AM, DanneJeRusse wrote:
At 2/19/2015 10:33:50 AM, Siladheil wrote:
I am an Atheist. I am one who refuses to believe in a higher power until the evidence is presented to me and an undeniable omnipotent being is in front of me.

My wife, however, is a devout Christian. She takes every opportunity to attempt to persuade me to turn myself to Christianity and follow the gospel. I've seen quite a few movies that she's persuaded me into watching: God's Not Dead, Heaven is for Real, Left Behind, among others that I can't remember off the top of my head.

In an attempt to appease my wife, I brought forth the following compromise: I would read three books and form my decision after I finished them. The books are as follows: The New Evidence That Demands a Verdict, the King James' Old Testimate, and the King James New Testimate.

I am struggling to read these books due to the fact that I counter argue each and every point that I read. I'm about a quarter of the way through the Evidence book. I would like to open a forum topic and discuss whether or not there is any ground or logic behind the Christian God.

No grounds or logic whatsoever. Divorce your wife. ;)

I love my wife very much and would not divorce her over something as small or insignificant as the religion she follows. I understand you're attempting a joke, but I'm seriously looking for answers here and I hope it is a thought provoking topic and that I can learn a lot from what is posted on this forum.

You do realize that you and your future children will always be second to Jesus in your wife's worldview? Jesus will always be first and foremost, no matter what. This will create a huge problem when she begins to indoctrinate your children into Christianity usually with divorce being the only option left open.
Marrying a 6 year old and waiting until she reaches puberty and maturity before having consensual sex is better than walking up to
a stranger in a bar and proceeding to have relations with no valid proof of the intent of the person. Muhammad wins. ~ Fatihah
If they don't want to be killed then they have to subdue to the Islamic laws. - Uncung
Without God, you are lower than sh!t. ~ SpiritandTruth
JJ50
Posts: 2,144
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2/19/2015 11:15:14 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 2/19/2015 10:59:15 AM, Siladheil wrote:
At 2/19/2015 10:52:42 AM, JJ50 wrote:
At 2/19/2015 10:33:50 AM, Siladheil wrote:
I am an Atheist. I am one who refuses to believe in a higher power until the evidence is presented to me and an undeniable omnipotent being is in front of me.

My wife, however, is a devout Christian. She takes every opportunity to attempt to persuade me to turn myself to Christianity and follow the gospel. I've seen quite a few movies that she's persuaded me into watching: God's Not Dead, Heaven is for Real, Left Behind, among others that I can't remember off the top of my head.

In an attempt to appease my wife, I brought forth the following compromise: I would read three books and form my decision after I finished them. The books are as follows: The New Evidence That Demands a Verdict, the King James' Old Testimate, and the King James New Testimate.

I am struggling to read these books due to the fact that I counter argue each and every point that I read. I'm about a quarter of the way through the Evidence book. I would like to open a forum topic and discuss whether or not there is any ground or logic behind the Christian God.

I was a 'born again' Christian as a young person having been force fed the dogma from birth. However the more I questioned it and actually read the Bible from cover to cover, not just listening to the sound bites the more the doubts became overwhelming. I lost my faith as I couldn't reconcile the Biblical with any form of logic. I have read the Bible many times in my 65 years and continue to do so. The more I read it the more convinced I am that it is wholly the work of its human authors, with no input from any deity. I believe Jesus was human with faults and failings like the rest of us. He may have had a charismatic personality, which is why he had followers, but the tales created about him are the work of fiction.

Thank you for your input. I fully agree with you. I believe that there was a man named Jesus who was alive around 2040 some odd years ago and that he did have a very charismatic personality and was able to convince people of many things, but I do not believe that the bible has any actual historical significance. It's a bunch of stories riddled with some good things that a man named Jesus did, as well as a lot of bad things that were used to strike fear into the hearts of those who had to believe in something higher to give their life purpose. I believe the bible was used as a tool to make loyal servants out of the lower/middle class people and ensure that chaos didn't break out everywhere.

The Bible has certainly been used as a scare tactic over the centuries. I had a sadist paternal grandmother who derived great pleasure from describing the tortures of hell to me from the age of two! She beat religion into her own six children!
Siladheil
Posts: 23
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2/19/2015 11:18:27 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 2/19/2015 11:14:07 AM, DanneJeRusse wrote:
At 2/19/2015 10:43:31 AM, Siladheil wrote:
At 2/19/2015 10:40:55 AM, DanneJeRusse wrote:
At 2/19/2015 10:33:50 AM, Siladheil wrote:
I am an Atheist. I am one who refuses to believe in a higher power until the evidence is presented to me and an undeniable omnipotent being is in front of me.

My wife, however, is a devout Christian. She takes every opportunity to attempt to persuade me to turn myself to Christianity and follow the gospel. I've seen quite a few movies that she's persuaded me into watching: God's Not Dead, Heaven is for Real, Left Behind, among others that I can't remember off the top of my head.

In an attempt to appease my wife, I brought forth the following compromise: I would read three books and form my decision after I finished them. The books are as follows: The New Evidence That Demands a Verdict, the King James' Old Testimate, and the King James New Testimate.

I am struggling to read these books due to the fact that I counter argue each and every point that I read. I'm about a quarter of the way through the Evidence book. I would like to open a forum topic and discuss whether or not there is any ground or logic behind the Christian God.

No grounds or logic whatsoever. Divorce your wife. ;)

I love my wife very much and would not divorce her over something as small or insignificant as the religion she follows. I understand you're attempting a joke, but I'm seriously looking for answers here and I hope it is a thought provoking topic and that I can learn a lot from what is posted on this forum.

You do realize that you and your future children will always be second to Jesus in your wife's worldview? Jesus will always be first and foremost, no matter what. This will create a huge problem when she begins to indoctrinate your children into Christianity usually with divorce being the only option left open.

That is not always true. My children are free to choose whatever they would like to choose. If I must. I will take my children to multiple religious establishments and let them form a decision for themselves once they are old enough. If they choose Christianity, that is their decision. If they decide they'd rather be Buddist I will fully support them as they grow into adulthood and beyond. My dad and step mom have been married for 20 years and he is an Atheist while she is a devout Christian. Their marriage has worked well for them for the past 20 years and I don't see any reason as to why my marriage with my wife wouldn't work as well.
"Give a man a match, and he'll be warm for a minute, but set him on fire,
and he'll be warm for the rest of his life." ~ Anonymous
Siladheil
Posts: 23
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2/19/2015 11:23:57 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 2/19/2015 11:15:14 AM, JJ50 wrote:
At 2/19/2015 10:59:15 AM, Siladheil wrote:
At 2/19/2015 10:52:42 AM, JJ50 wrote:
At 2/19/2015 10:33:50 AM, Siladheil wrote:
I am an Atheist. I am one who refuses to believe in a higher power until the evidence is presented to me and an undeniable omnipotent being is in front of me.

My wife, however, is a devout Christian. She takes every opportunity to attempt to persuade me to turn myself to Christianity and follow the gospel. I've seen quite a few movies that she's persuaded me into watching: God's Not Dead, Heaven is for Real, Left Behind, among others that I can't remember off the top of my head.

In an attempt to appease my wife, I brought forth the following compromise: I would read three books and form my decision after I finished them. The books are as follows: The New Evidence That Demands a Verdict, the King James' Old Testimate, and the King James New Testimate.

I am struggling to read these books due to the fact that I counter argue each and every point that I read. I'm about a quarter of the way through the Evidence book. I would like to open a forum topic and discuss whether or not there is any ground or logic behind the Christian God.

I was a 'born again' Christian as a young person having been force fed the dogma from birth. However the more I questioned it and actually read the Bible from cover to cover, not just listening to the sound bites the more the doubts became overwhelming. I lost my faith as I couldn't reconcile the Biblical with any form of logic. I have read the Bible many times in my 65 years and continue to do so. The more I read it the more convinced I am that it is wholly the work of its human authors, with no input from any deity. I believe Jesus was human with faults and failings like the rest of us. He may have had a charismatic personality, which is why he had followers, but the tales created about him are the work of fiction.

Thank you for your input. I fully agree with you. I believe that there was a man named Jesus who was alive around 2040 some odd years ago and that he did have a very charismatic personality and was able to convince people of many things, but I do not believe that the bible has any actual historical significance. It's a bunch of stories riddled with some good things that a man named Jesus did, as well as a lot of bad things that were used to strike fear into the hearts of those who had to believe in something higher to give their life purpose. I believe the bible was used as a tool to make loyal servants out of the lower/middle class people and ensure that chaos didn't break out everywhere.

The Bible has certainly been used as a scare tactic over the centuries. I had a sadist paternal grandmother who derived great pleasure from describing the tortures of hell to me from the age of two! She beat religion into her own six children!

When I was a child, my mother used to take me to an evangelical church where every Sunday I was told the hellfire and how if I did one thing wrong, I would be doomed to them for the rest of eternity. That was a huge turnoff to me and when I was 12, I decided that religion wasn't for me. I started studying up on different scientific theories that would explain the universe. When I was 15, I read Hawking's A Brief History of Time and that book really opened my eyes as to what the scientific community thought and my thirst for information only grew.
"Give a man a match, and he'll be warm for a minute, but set him on fire,
and he'll be warm for the rest of his life." ~ Anonymous
bornofgod
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2/19/2015 11:26:42 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 2/19/2015 10:33:50 AM, Siladheil wrote:
I am an Atheist. I am one who refuses to believe in a higher power until the evidence is presented to me and an undeniable omnipotent being is in front of me.

My wife, however, is a devout Christian. She takes every opportunity to attempt to persuade me to turn myself to Christianity and follow the gospel. I've seen quite a few movies that she's persuaded me into watching: God's Not Dead, Heaven is for Real, Left Behind, among others that I can't remember off the top of my head.

In an attempt to appease my wife, I brought forth the following compromise: I would read three books and form my decision after I finished them. The books are as follows: The New Evidence That Demands a Verdict, the King James' Old Testimate, and the King James New Testimate.

I am struggling to read these books due to the fact that I counter argue each and every point that I read. I'm about a quarter of the way through the Evidence book. I would like to open a forum topic and discuss whether or not there is any ground or logic behind the Christian God.

The Christian gods have deceived man ever since man began to believe in them. The God who created Christianity from His plan called the beast used Christianity to teach His people how to build false gods ( objects built with human hands ) until we had the modern technology today to figure out that everything we observe comes from invisible vibrations.
Envisage
Posts: 3,646
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2/19/2015 11:34:07 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 2/19/2015 10:33:50 AM, Siladheil wrote:
I am an Atheist. I am one who refuses to believe in a higher power until the evidence is presented to me and an undeniable omnipotent being is in front of me.

My wife, however, is a devout Christian. She takes every opportunity to attempt to persuade me to turn myself to Christianity and follow the gospel. I've seen quite a few movies that she's persuaded me into watching: God's Not Dead, Heaven is for Real, Left Behind, among others that I can't remember off the top of my head.

In an attempt to appease my wife, I brought forth the following compromise: I would read three books and form my decision after I finished them. The books are as follows: The New Evidence That Demands a Verdict, the King James' Old Testimate, and the King James New Testimate.

I am struggling to read these books due to the fact that I counter argue each and every point that I read. I'm about a quarter of the way through the Evidence book. I would like to open a forum topic and discuss whether or not there is any ground or logic behind the Christian God.

Read them with an open mind, try to be the author and think what he is thinking. It is a learning exercise for you, even if you don;t agree with what he is saying. It is just as valuable to learn *how* another is thinking as it it to learn *what* they are thinking.

For example, Ajab made me read Immanuel Kant, with whom I disagree very strongly on a number of issues in epistemology, and despite my reservations, I have taken a number of things home form his thinking. While I deviate on the logical progression, I have gained significantly from understanding it to a small degree. I have still yet to finish it though...

So, I advise to read first, and fact-check later. Perhaps write down the most interesting/key points made, and then look them up later. Continually critiquing a book while you are reading it will make it disjointed and hard to grasp it's message.

I made that mistake when I read the Book of Daniel (in preparation for my debate that you voted on), after each chapter I looked up the scholarship on each chapter. But in doing so I missed out on the general message of the book. So I had to read it all over again to grasp it. I must say, I actually enjoyed reading the Book of Daniel.

P.S. Noah is a 100x better film than God is not Great. The latter is basically badly done propaganda, the former is entertainment.
Skepticalone
Posts: 6,125
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2/19/2015 11:48:42 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 2/19/2015 11:34:07 AM, Envisage wrote:
At 2/19/2015 10:33:50 AM, Siladheil wrote:
I am an Atheist. I am one who refuses to believe in a higher power until the evidence is presented to me and an undeniable omnipotent being is in front of me.

My wife, however, is a devout Christian. She takes every opportunity to attempt to persuade me to turn myself to Christianity and follow the gospel. I've seen quite a few movies that she's persuaded me into watching: God's Not Dead, Heaven is for Real, Left Behind, among others that I can't remember off the top of my head.

In an attempt to appease my wife, I brought forth the following compromise: I would read three books and form my decision after I finished them. The books are as follows: The New Evidence That Demands a Verdict, the King James' Old Testimate, and the King James New Testimate.

I am struggling to read these books due to the fact that I counter argue each and every point that I read. I'm about a quarter of the way through the Evidence book. I would like to open a forum topic and discuss whether or not there is any ground or logic behind the Christian God.

Read them with an open mind, try to be the author and think what he is thinking. It is a learning exercise for you, even if you don;t agree with what he is saying. It is just as valuable to learn *how* another is thinking as it it to learn *what* they are thinking.

For example, Ajab made me read Immanuel Kant, with whom I disagree very strongly on a number of issues in epistemology, and despite my reservations, I have taken a number of things home form his thinking. While I deviate on the logical progression, I have gained significantly from understanding it to a small degree. I have still yet to finish it though...

So, I advise to read first, and fact-check later. Perhaps write down the most interesting/key points made, and then look them up later. Continually critiquing a book while you are reading it will make it disjointed and hard to grasp it's message.

I made that mistake when I read the Book of Daniel (in preparation for my debate that you voted on), after each chapter I looked up the scholarship on each chapter. But in doing so I missed out on the general message of the book. So I had to read it all over again to grasp it. I must say, I actually enjoyed reading the Book of Daniel.

P.S. Noah is a 100x better film than God is not Great. The latter is basically badly done propaganda, the former is entertainment.

Agree on Noah vs God is not *dead*. Was that a Freudian slip? ;-)
This thread is like eavesdropping on a conversation in a mental asylum. - Bulproof

You can call your invisible friends whatever you like. - Desmac

What the hell kind of coked up sideshow has this thread turned into. - Casten
bornofgod
Posts: 11,322
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2/19/2015 11:53:18 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 2/19/2015 11:34:07 AM, Envisage wrote:
At 2/19/2015 10:33:50 AM, Siladheil wrote:
I am an Atheist. I am one who refuses to believe in a higher power until the evidence is presented to me and an undeniable omnipotent being is in front of me.

My wife, however, is a devout Christian. She takes every opportunity to attempt to persuade me to turn myself to Christianity and follow the gospel. I've seen quite a few movies that she's persuaded me into watching: God's Not Dead, Heaven is for Real, Left Behind, among others that I can't remember off the top of my head.

In an attempt to appease my wife, I brought forth the following compromise: I would read three books and form my decision after I finished them. The books are as follows: The New Evidence That Demands a Verdict, the King James' Old Testimate, and the King James New Testimate.

I am struggling to read these books due to the fact that I counter argue each and every point that I read. I'm about a quarter of the way through the Evidence book. I would like to open a forum topic and discuss whether or not there is any ground or logic behind the Christian God.

Read them with an open mind, try to be the author and think what he is thinking. It is a learning exercise for you, even if you don;t agree with what he is saying. It is just as valuable to learn *how* another is thinking as it it to learn *what* they are thinking.

For example, Ajab made me read Immanuel Kant, with whom I disagree very strongly on a number of issues in epistemology, and despite my reservations, I have taken a number of things home form his thinking. While I deviate on the logical progression, I have gained significantly from understanding it to a small degree. I have still yet to finish it though...

So, I advise to read first, and fact-check later. Perhaps write down the most interesting/key points made, and then look them up later. Continually critiquing a book while you are reading it will make it disjointed and hard to grasp it's message.

I made that mistake when I read the Book of Daniel (in preparation for my debate that you voted on), after each chapter I looked up the scholarship on each chapter. But in doing so I missed out on the general message of the book. So I had to read it all over again to grasp it. I must say, I actually enjoyed reading the Book of Daniel.

P.S. Noah is a 100x better film than God is not Great. The latter is basically badly done propaganda, the former is entertainment.

No Christian understands the prophecies in Daniel. It's like reading a comic book to them and this is the reason it's so enjoyable. Do you think it's enjoyable to know that God planned on destroying this world that includes the beast and ALL flesh that is roaming around on the earth?
annanicole
Posts: 19,787
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2/19/2015 11:56:36 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 2/19/2015 10:46:20 AM, Siladheil wrote:
At 2/19/2015 10:43:57 AM, heart_of_the_matter wrote:
At 2/19/2015 10:33:50 AM, Siladheil wrote:
I am an Atheist. I am one who refuses to believe in a higher power until the evidence is presented to me and an undeniable omnipotent being is in front of me.

My wife, however, is a devout Christian. She takes every opportunity to attempt to persuade me to turn myself to Christianity and follow the gospel. I've seen quite a few movies that she's persuaded me into watching: God's Not Dead, Heaven is for Real, Left Behind, among others that I can't remember off the top of my head.

In an attempt to appease my wife, I brought forth the following compromise: I would read three books and form my decision after I finished them. The books are as follows: The New Evidence That Demands a Verdict, the King James' Old Testimate, and the King James New Testimate.

I am struggling to read these books due to the fact that I counter argue each and every point that I read. I'm about a quarter of the way through the Evidence book. I would like to open a forum topic and discuss whether or not there is any ground or logic behind the Christian God.

Of course there is logic behind the Christian God.
You seek proof of God...that is a logical desire...
Have you prayed and asked God for knowledge concerning the matter?
that would be a good first step if you have not done that...ask God about Jesus Christ also, ask God which Church is His...
Because think of it this way...If God allows freedom (and He does) He isn't going to FORCE anyone to believe---if someone doesn't WANT to know and God gives people what they want...then.............however...if someone WANTS to know and God gives that person what they want....
the question comes down to...do you want to really know?
If you do...ask God....and you shall receive

Matthew 7: 7 "Ask, and it shall be given you; seek, and ye shall find; knock, and it shall be opened unto you:

James 1: 5 If any of you lack wisdom, let him ask of God, that giveth to all men liberally, and upbraideth not; and it shall be given him.

That, however, is the problem, I'm not going to ask something that I do not believe in to help me believe. That seems illogical to me as nothing will happen.

It is ... I'm a Christian, and the suggestion was ridiculous.
Madcornishbiker: "No, I don't need a dictionary, I know how scripture uses words and that is all I need to now."
Envisage
Posts: 3,646
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2/19/2015 12:02:12 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 2/19/2015 11:48:42 AM, Skepticalone wrote:
At 2/19/2015 11:34:07 AM, Envisage wrote:
At 2/19/2015 10:33:50 AM, Siladheil wrote:
I am an Atheist. I am one who refuses to believe in a higher power until the evidence is presented to me and an undeniable omnipotent being is in front of me.

My wife, however, is a devout Christian. She takes every opportunity to attempt to persuade me to turn myself to Christianity and follow the gospel. I've seen quite a few movies that she's persuaded me into watching: God's Not Dead, Heaven is for Real, Left Behind, among others that I can't remember off the top of my head.

In an attempt to appease my wife, I brought forth the following compromise: I would read three books and form my decision after I finished them. The books are as follows: The New Evidence That Demands a Verdict, the King James' Old Testimate, and the King James New Testimate.

I am struggling to read these books due to the fact that I counter argue each and every point that I read. I'm about a quarter of the way through the Evidence book. I would like to open a forum topic and discuss whether or not there is any ground or logic behind the Christian God.

Read them with an open mind, try to be the author and think what he is thinking. It is a learning exercise for you, even if you don;t agree with what he is saying. It is just as valuable to learn *how* another is thinking as it it to learn *what* they are thinking.

For example, Ajab made me read Immanuel Kant, with whom I disagree very strongly on a number of issues in epistemology, and despite my reservations, I have taken a number of things home form his thinking. While I deviate on the logical progression, I have gained significantly from understanding it to a small degree. I have still yet to finish it though...

So, I advise to read first, and fact-check later. Perhaps write down the most interesting/key points made, and then look them up later. Continually critiquing a book while you are reading it will make it disjointed and hard to grasp it's message.

I made that mistake when I read the Book of Daniel (in preparation for my debate that you voted on), after each chapter I looked up the scholarship on each chapter. But in doing so I missed out on the general message of the book. So I had to read it all over again to grasp it. I must say, I actually enjoyed reading the Book of Daniel.

P.S. Noah is a 100x better film than God is not Great. The latter is basically badly done propaganda, the former is entertainment.

Agree on Noah vs God is not *dead*. Was that a Freudian slip? ;-)

I urbandictionaried that term, and I still don't understand it....
bornofgod
Posts: 11,322
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2/19/2015 12:07:31 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 2/19/2015 11:15:14 AM, JJ50 wrote:
At 2/19/2015 10:59:15 AM, Siladheil wrote:
At 2/19/2015 10:52:42 AM, JJ50 wrote:
At 2/19/2015 10:33:50 AM, Siladheil wrote:
I am an Atheist. I am one who refuses to believe in a higher power until the evidence is presented to me and an undeniable omnipotent being is in front of me.

My wife, however, is a devout Christian. She takes every opportunity to attempt to persuade me to turn myself to Christianity and follow the gospel. I've seen quite a few movies that she's persuaded me into watching: God's Not Dead, Heaven is for Real, Left Behind, among others that I can't remember off the top of my head.

In an attempt to appease my wife, I brought forth the following compromise: I would read three books and form my decision after I finished them. The books are as follows: The New Evidence That Demands a Verdict, the King James' Old Testimate, and the King James New Testimate.

I am struggling to read these books due to the fact that I counter argue each and every point that I read. I'm about a quarter of the way through the Evidence book. I would like to open a forum topic and discuss whether or not there is any ground or logic behind the Christian God.

I was a 'born again' Christian as a young person having been force fed the dogma from birth. However the more I questioned it and actually read the Bible from cover to cover, not just listening to the sound bites the more the doubts became overwhelming. I lost my faith as I couldn't reconcile the Biblical with any form of logic. I have read the Bible many times in my 65 years and continue to do so. The more I read it the more convinced I am that it is wholly the work of its human authors, with no input from any deity. I believe Jesus was human with faults and failings like the rest of us. He may have had a charismatic personality, which is why he had followers, but the tales created about him are the work of fiction.

Thank you for your input. I fully agree with you. I believe that there was a man named Jesus who was alive around 2040 some odd years ago and that he did have a very charismatic personality and was able to convince people of many things, but I do not believe that the bible has any actual historical significance. It's a bunch of stories riddled with some good things that a man named Jesus did, as well as a lot of bad things that were used to strike fear into the hearts of those who had to believe in something higher to give their life purpose. I believe the bible was used as a tool to make loyal servants out of the lower/middle class people and ensure that chaos didn't break out everywhere.

The Bible has certainly been used as a scare tactic over the centuries. I had a sadist paternal grandmother who derived great pleasure from describing the tortures of hell to me from the age of two! She beat religion into her own six children!

The Bible has certainly been used as a scare tactic over the centuries.

Especially by people who don't know our Creator and added all their religious teachings in the new testament that the Vatican approved. Those heathen Roman Catholic leaders should be ashamed and guilt-ridden for pretending to be God's chosen servants.
Skepticalone
Posts: 6,125
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2/19/2015 12:09:42 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 2/19/2015 10:33:50 AM, Siladheil wrote:
I am an Atheist. I am one who refuses to believe in a higher power until the evidence is presented to me and an undeniable omnipotent being is in front of me.

My wife, however, is a devout Christian. She takes every opportunity to attempt to persuade me to turn myself to Christianity and follow the gospel. I've seen quite a few movies that she's persuaded me into watching: God's Not Dead, Heaven is for Real, Left Behind, among others that I can't remember off the top of my head.

In an attempt to appease my wife, I brought forth the following compromise: I would read three books and form my decision after I finished them. The books are as follows: The New Evidence That Demands a Verdict, the King James' Old Testimate, and the King James New Testimate.

First off, I am an atheist as well. All that I about to suggest is only to help you exMine your views ( an unexamined life is not worth living). If I were in your wife's position, I would have insisted on books other than the King James (which should only count for one book, lol). A more modern translation would have been better, for instance, the New American Standard. I know many people like the poetic language in KJV, but it is not a very good translation since it is a translation of a translation in some aspects. Also, even though some of the information is scientifically out of date, I found a lot of good philosophical meat with CS Lewis.

That being said, if you are reading three books is your wife doing the same? I would insist on it. ;-)

My wife and I have the same type of relationship, although I would not consider her to be devout. (When we were married, I was the more devout between the two of us). My children go to church sometimes, and I encourage them to find their own way. I respect the compromise you have struck.

Now as to Christianity, I personally have a problem with the major flaws in the Bible - the contradictions, the absurdities, the scientific inaccuracies, the anachronisms, etc. If the Bible was inspired by an omnipotent omniscient god, then these are problematic.


I am struggling to read these books due to the fact that I counter argue each and every point that I read. I'm about a quarter of the way through the Evidence book. I would like to open a forum topic and discuss whether or not there is any ground or logic behind the Christian God.
This thread is like eavesdropping on a conversation in a mental asylum. - Bulproof

You can call your invisible friends whatever you like. - Desmac

What the hell kind of coked up sideshow has this thread turned into. - Casten
Siladheil
Posts: 23
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2/19/2015 12:11:20 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 2/19/2015 11:34:07 AM, Envisage wrote:
At 2/19/2015 10:33:50 AM, Siladheil wrote:
I am an Atheist. I am one who refuses to believe in a higher power until the evidence is presented to me and an undeniable omnipotent being is in front of me.

My wife, however, is a devout Christian. She takes every opportunity to attempt to persuade me to turn myself to Christianity and follow the gospel. I've seen quite a few movies that she's persuaded me into watching: God's Not Dead, Heaven is for Real, Left Behind, among others that I can't remember off the top of my head.

In an attempt to appease my wife, I brought forth the following compromise: I would read three books and form my decision after I finished them. The books are as follows: The New Evidence That Demands a Verdict, the King James' Old Testimate, and the King James New Testimate.

I am struggling to read these books due to the fact that I counter argue each and every point that I read. I'm about a quarter of the way through the Evidence book. I would like to open a forum topic and discuss whether or not there is any ground or logic behind the Christian God.

Read them with an open mind, try to be the author and think what he is thinking. It is a learning exercise for you, even if you don;t agree with what he is saying. It is just as valuable to learn *how* another is thinking as it it to learn *what* they are thinking.

For example, Ajab made me read Immanuel Kant, with whom I disagree very strongly on a number of issues in epistemology, and despite my reservations, I have taken a number of things home form his thinking. While I deviate on the logical progression, I have gained significantly from understanding it to a small degree. I have still yet to finish it though...

So, I advise to read first, and fact-check later. Perhaps write down the most interesting/key points made, and then look them up later. Continually critiquing a book while you are reading it will make it disjointed and hard to grasp it's message.

I made that mistake when I read the Book of Daniel (in preparation for my debate that you voted on), after each chapter I looked up the scholarship on each chapter. But in doing so I missed out on the general message of the book. So I had to read it all over again to grasp it. I must say, I actually enjoyed reading the Book of Daniel.

P.S. Noah is a 100x better film than God is not Great. The latter is basically badly done propaganda, the former is entertainment.

Thank you for the advice. However tough it's going to be for me to read those books with an already biased opinion, I'm down to give it another shot.
"Give a man a match, and he'll be warm for a minute, but set him on fire,
and he'll be warm for the rest of his life." ~ Anonymous
Skepticalone
Posts: 6,125
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2/19/2015 12:17:19 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 2/19/2015 12:02:12 PM, Envisage wrote:
At 2/19/2015 11:48:42 AM, Skepticalone wrote:
At 2/19/2015 11:34:07 AM, Envisage wrote:
At 2/19/2015 10:33:50 AM, Siladheil wrote:
I am an Atheist. I am one who refuses to believe in a higher power until the evidence is presented to me and an undeniable omnipotent being is in front of me.

My wife, however, is a devout Christian. She takes every opportunity to attempt to persuade me to turn myself to Christianity and follow the gospel. I've seen quite a few movies that she's persuaded me into watching: God's Not Dead, Heaven is for Real, Left Behind, among others that I can't remember off the top of my head.

In an attempt to appease my wife, I brought forth the following compromise: I would read three books and form my decision after I finished them. The books are as follows: The New Evidence That Demands a Verdict, the King James' Old Testimate, and the King James New Testimate.

I am struggling to read these books due to the fact that I counter argue each and every point that I read. I'm about a quarter of the way through the Evidence book. I would like to open a forum topic and discuss whether or not there is any ground or logic behind the Christian God.

Read them with an open mind, try to be the author and think what he is thinking. It is a learning exercise for you, even if you don;t agree with what he is saying. It is just as valuable to learn *how* another is thinking as it it to learn *what* they are thinking.

For example, Ajab made me read Immanuel Kant, with whom I disagree very strongly on a number of issues in epistemology, and despite my reservations, I have taken a number of things home form his thinking. While I deviate on the logical progression, I have gained significantly from understanding it to a small degree. I have still yet to finish it though...

So, I advise to read first, and fact-check later. Perhaps write down the most interesting/key points made, and then look them up later. Continually critiquing a book while you are reading it will make it disjointed and hard to grasp it's message.

I made that mistake when I read the Book of Daniel (in preparation for my debate that you voted on), after each chapter I looked up the scholarship on each chapter. But in doing so I missed out on the general message of the book. So I had to read it all over again to grasp it. I must say, I actually enjoyed reading the Book of Daniel.

P.S. Noah is a 100x better film than God is not Great. The latter is basically badly done propaganda, the former is entertainment.

Agree on Noah vs God is not *dead*. Was that a Freudian slip? ;-)

I urbandictionaried that term, and I still don't understand it....

I was poking fun since you typed "God is not great" instead of "God is not dead". (Unless there actually is a movie called "God is not great") A Freudian slip would be expressing your true feelings unintentionally with a slip of the tongue or pen (or keystroke).
This thread is like eavesdropping on a conversation in a mental asylum. - Bulproof

You can call your invisible friends whatever you like. - Desmac

What the hell kind of coked up sideshow has this thread turned into. - Casten
Siladheil
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2/19/2015 12:17:37 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 2/19/2015 12:09:42 PM, Skepticalone wrote:
At 2/19/2015 10:33:50 AM, Siladheil wrote:
I am an Atheist. I am one who refuses to believe in a higher power until the evidence is presented to me and an undeniable omnipotent being is in front of me.

My wife, however, is a devout Christian. She takes every opportunity to attempt to persuade me to turn myself to Christianity and follow the gospel. I've seen quite a few movies that she's persuaded me into watching: God's Not Dead, Heaven is for Real, Left Behind, among others that I can't remember off the top of my head.

In an attempt to appease my wife, I brought forth the following compromise: I would read three books and form my decision after I finished them. The books are as follows: The New Evidence That Demands a Verdict, the King James' Old Testimate, and the King James New Testimate.

First off, I am an atheist as well. All that I about to suggest is only to help you exMine your views ( an unexamined life is not worth living). If I were in your wife's position, I would have insisted on books other than the King James (which should only count for one book, lol). A more modern translation would have been better, for instance, the New American Standard. I know many people like the poetic language in KJV, but it is not a very good translation since it is a translation of a translation in some aspects. Also, even though some of the information is scientifically out of date, I found a lot of good philosophical meat with CS Lewis.

That being said, if you are reading three books is your wife doing the same? I would insist on it. ;-)

My wife and I have the same type of relationship, although I would not consider her to be devout. (When we were married, I was the more devout between the two of us). My children go to church sometimes, and I encourage them to find their own way. I respect the compromise you have struck.

Now as to Christianity, I personally have a problem with the major flaws in the Bible - the contradictions, the absurdities, the scientific inaccuracies, the anachronisms, etc. If the Bible was inspired by an omnipotent omniscient god, then these are problematic.



I am struggling to read these books due to the fact that I counter argue each and every point that I read. I'm about a quarter of the way through the Evidence book. I would like to open a forum topic and discuss whether or not there is any ground or logic behind the Christian God.

Perhaps I will press the issue once I have finished reading my books. I feel like having her reading my recommended books would only cause her grief. If I took away from her the feeling of eternity, I fear she would slip into a depressive state that she won't be able to get out of. I don't think she's able to handle the thought that there is nothing after you die.
"Give a man a match, and he'll be warm for a minute, but set him on fire,
and he'll be warm for the rest of his life." ~ Anonymous
Envisage
Posts: 3,646
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2/19/2015 12:18:49 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 2/19/2015 12:17:19 PM, Skepticalone wrote:
At 2/19/2015 12:02:12 PM, Envisage wrote:
At 2/19/2015 11:48:42 AM, Skepticalone wrote:
At 2/19/2015 11:34:07 AM, Envisage wrote:
At 2/19/2015 10:33:50 AM, Siladheil wrote:
I am an Atheist. I am one who refuses to believe in a higher power until the evidence is presented to me and an undeniable omnipotent being is in front of me.

My wife, however, is a devout Christian. She takes every opportunity to attempt to persuade me to turn myself to Christianity and follow the gospel. I've seen quite a few movies that she's persuaded me into watching: God's Not Dead, Heaven is for Real, Left Behind, among others that I can't remember off the top of my head.

In an attempt to appease my wife, I brought forth the following compromise: I would read three books and form my decision after I finished them. The books are as follows: The New Evidence That Demands a Verdict, the King James' Old Testimate, and the King James New Testimate.

I am struggling to read these books due to the fact that I counter argue each and every point that I read. I'm about a quarter of the way through the Evidence book. I would like to open a forum topic and discuss whether or not there is any ground or logic behind the Christian God.

Read them with an open mind, try to be the author and think what he is thinking. It is a learning exercise for you, even if you don;t agree with what he is saying. It is just as valuable to learn *how* another is thinking as it it to learn *what* they are thinking.

For example, Ajab made me read Immanuel Kant, with whom I disagree very strongly on a number of issues in epistemology, and despite my reservations, I have taken a number of things home form his thinking. While I deviate on the logical progression, I have gained significantly from understanding it to a small degree. I have still yet to finish it though...

So, I advise to read first, and fact-check later. Perhaps write down the most interesting/key points made, and then look them up later. Continually critiquing a book while you are reading it will make it disjointed and hard to grasp it's message.

I made that mistake when I read the Book of Daniel (in preparation for my debate that you voted on), after each chapter I looked up the scholarship on each chapter. But in doing so I missed out on the general message of the book. So I had to read it all over again to grasp it. I must say, I actually enjoyed reading the Book of Daniel.

P.S. Noah is a 100x better film than God is not Great. The latter is basically badly done propaganda, the former is entertainment.

Agree on Noah vs God is not *dead*. Was that a Freudian slip? ;-)

I urbandictionaried that term, and I still don't understand it....

I was poking fun since you typed "God is not great" instead of "God is not dead". (Unless there actually is a movie called "God is not great") A Freudian slip would be expressing your true feelings unintentionally with a slip of the tongue or pen (or keystroke).

I get it now. Well, maybe, I don't know. It by definition is in my subconsciousness :-p
Envisage
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2/19/2015 12:20:34 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 2/19/2015 12:11:20 PM, Siladheil wrote:
At 2/19/2015 11:34:07 AM, Envisage wrote:
At 2/19/2015 10:33:50 AM, Siladheil wrote:
I am an Atheist. I am one who refuses to believe in a higher power until the evidence is presented to me and an undeniable omnipotent being is in front of me.

My wife, however, is a devout Christian. She takes every opportunity to attempt to persuade me to turn myself to Christianity and follow the gospel. I've seen quite a few movies that she's persuaded me into watching: God's Not Dead, Heaven is for Real, Left Behind, among others that I can't remember off the top of my head.

In an attempt to appease my wife, I brought forth the following compromise: I would read three books and form my decision after I finished them. The books are as follows: The New Evidence That Demands a Verdict, the King James' Old Testimate, and the King James New Testimate.

I am struggling to read these books due to the fact that I counter argue each and every point that I read. I'm about a quarter of the way through the Evidence book. I would like to open a forum topic and discuss whether or not there is any ground or logic behind the Christian God.

Read them with an open mind, try to be the author and think what he is thinking. It is a learning exercise for you, even if you don;t agree with what he is saying. It is just as valuable to learn *how* another is thinking as it it to learn *what* they are thinking.

For example, Ajab made me read Immanuel Kant, with whom I disagree very strongly on a number of issues in epistemology, and despite my reservations, I have taken a number of things home form his thinking. While I deviate on the logical progression, I have gained significantly from understanding it to a small degree. I have still yet to finish it though...

So, I advise to read first, and fact-check later. Perhaps write down the most interesting/key points made, and then look them up later. Continually critiquing a book while you are reading it will make it disjointed and hard to grasp it's message.

I made that mistake when I read the Book of Daniel (in preparation for my debate that you voted on), after each chapter I looked up the scholarship on each chapter. But in doing so I missed out on the general message of the book. So I had to read it all over again to grasp it. I must say, I actually enjoyed reading the Book of Daniel.

P.S. Noah is a 100x better film than God is not Great. The latter is basically badly done propaganda, the former is entertainment.

Thank you for the advice. However tough it's going to be for me to read those books with an already biased opinion, I'm down to give it another shot.

If you can't read those without a biased opinion then you are committing the same fallacy of reasoning in enquiry that theists do. Confirmation bias is ingrained into all of us, not just theists. You have to read stuff you don't agree with if you want to have an objective opinion about reality.