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Letting children decide for themselves

JJ50
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2/19/2015 11:27:21 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
My husband, an atheist, and I an agnostic, decided that when our children came along we would let them decide for themselves about religion. As none of it is provable we think it is a matter of personal choice and should NEVER be forced on anyone. We had religion forced on us as children, and it was not a comfortable experience.

Suffice to say our three daughters consider themselves Christians. The eldest is an Anglican priest. Fortunately they aren't Biblical literalists, and they are good upstanding people. They wouldn't dream of pushing their faith down the throats of their father and I, or the married ones, their husbands and children.

Do others see it our way?
popculturepooka
Posts: 7,924
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2/19/2015 11:31:05 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 2/19/2015 11:27:21 AM, JJ50 wrote:
My husband, an atheist, and I an agnostic, decided that when our children came along we would let them decide for themselves about religion. As none of it is provable we think it is a matter of personal choice and should NEVER be forced on anyone. We had religion forced on us as children, and it was not a comfortable experience.

Suffice to say our three daughters consider themselves Christians. The eldest is an Anglican priest. Fortunately they aren't Biblical literalists, and they are good upstanding people. They wouldn't dream of pushing their faith down the throats of their father and I, or the married ones, their husbands and children.

Do others see it our way?

Depends on what you mean by "pushing their faith down throats" (would trying to give your reasons to become Christian constitute that?) but I agree with your approach in general.
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UndeniableReality
Posts: 1,897
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2/19/2015 11:32:00 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 2/19/2015 11:27:21 AM, JJ50 wrote:
My husband, an atheist, and I an agnostic, decided that when our children came along we would let them decide for themselves about religion. As none of it is provable we think it is a matter of personal choice and should NEVER be forced on anyone. We had religion forced on us as children, and it was not a comfortable experience.

Suffice to say our three daughters consider themselves Christians. The eldest is an Anglican priest. Fortunately they aren't Biblical literalists, and they are good upstanding people. They wouldn't dream of pushing their faith down the throats of their father and I, or the married ones, their husbands and children.

Do others see it our way?

I do agree with this approach, but if one of my children did become religious, I might feel that I had failed to educate them well.
Ragnar
Posts: 1,658
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2/19/2015 11:37:25 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
Sounds like a good way to do it. And I am glad you are happy with their lifestyle choices.
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bornofgod
Posts: 11,322
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2/19/2015 11:41:35 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 2/19/2015 11:27:21 AM, JJ50 wrote:
My husband, an atheist, and I an agnostic, decided that when our children came along we would let them decide for themselves about religion. As none of it is provable we think it is a matter of personal choice and should NEVER be forced on anyone. We had religion forced on us as children, and it was not a comfortable experience.

Suffice to say our three daughters consider themselves Christians. The eldest is an Anglican priest. Fortunately they aren't Biblical literalists, and they are good upstanding people. They wouldn't dream of pushing their faith down the throats of their father and I, or the married ones, their husbands and children.

Do others see it our way?

You will do exactly as God planned for you to do.
popculturepooka
Posts: 7,924
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2/19/2015 11:57:49 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 2/19/2015 11:32:00 AM, UndeniableReality wrote:
At 2/19/2015 11:27:21 AM, JJ50 wrote:
My husband, an atheist, and I an agnostic, decided that when our children came along we would let them decide for themselves about religion. As none of it is provable we think it is a matter of personal choice and should NEVER be forced on anyone. We had religion forced on us as children, and it was not a comfortable experience.

Suffice to say our three daughters consider themselves Christians. The eldest is an Anglican priest. Fortunately they aren't Biblical literalists, and they are good upstanding people. They wouldn't dream of pushing their faith down the throats of their father and I, or the married ones, their husbands and children.

Do others see it our way?

I do agree with this approach, but if one of my children did become religious, I might feel that I had failed to educate them well.

Are you implying that being religious is a simple matter of not being educated well enough?
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UndeniableReality
Posts: 1,897
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2/19/2015 12:03:36 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 2/19/2015 11:57:49 AM, popculturepooka wrote:
At 2/19/2015 11:32:00 AM, UndeniableReality wrote:
At 2/19/2015 11:27:21 AM, JJ50 wrote:
My husband, an atheist, and I an agnostic, decided that when our children came along we would let them decide for themselves about religion. As none of it is provable we think it is a matter of personal choice and should NEVER be forced on anyone. We had religion forced on us as children, and it was not a comfortable experience.

Suffice to say our three daughters consider themselves Christians. The eldest is an Anglican priest. Fortunately they aren't Biblical literalists, and they are good upstanding people. They wouldn't dream of pushing their faith down the throats of their father and I, or the married ones, their husbands and children.

Do others see it our way?

I do agree with this approach, but if one of my children did become religious, I might feel that I had failed to educate them well.

Are you implying that being religious is a simple matter of not being educated well enough?

Not quite. My personal approach to educating my children would be founded on teaching them to think scientifically. My wife and I are both scientists, and we believe that the scientific approach to the evaluation of claims is the best approach so far devised in terms of minimizing the acquisition of false or unjustified beliefs. Thus, if one of my children became religious, I would personally feel that I had not taught them how to think critically in a scientific sense well enough. That isn't to say that all parents must raise their kids to think scientifically, or that religious people are uneducated (though I would argue that it would be difficult to hold religious beliefs and to think scientifically without compartmentalization). But it is to say that that would be my personal feeling in that situation.
bornofgod
Posts: 11,322
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2/19/2015 12:04:45 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 2/19/2015 11:32:00 AM, UndeniableReality wrote:
At 2/19/2015 11:27:21 AM, JJ50 wrote:
My husband, an atheist, and I an agnostic, decided that when our children came along we would let them decide for themselves about religion. As none of it is provable we think it is a matter of personal choice and should NEVER be forced on anyone. We had religion forced on us as children, and it was not a comfortable experience.

Suffice to say our three daughters consider themselves Christians. The eldest is an Anglican priest. Fortunately they aren't Biblical literalists, and they are good upstanding people. They wouldn't dream of pushing their faith down the throats of their father and I, or the married ones, their husbands and children.

Do others see it our way?

I do agree with this approach, but if one of my children did become religious, I might feel that I had failed to educate them well.

Don't feel bad about how God planned for your child to become religious. He planned for me to become a saint long before He came into my mind and spoke these words, "I AM YOUR CREATOR", just before I went out to get drunk that night on December 7th, 1979. In fact, he took away my desire to drink alcohol two days later. I was amazed at this because I was thinking I would die an alcoholic within five years.
DanneJeRusse
Posts: 12,609
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2/19/2015 12:08:38 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 2/19/2015 11:32:00 AM, UndeniableReality wrote:
At 2/19/2015 11:27:21 AM, JJ50 wrote:
My husband, an atheist, and I an agnostic, decided that when our children came along we would let them decide for themselves about religion. As none of it is provable we think it is a matter of personal choice and should NEVER be forced on anyone. We had religion forced on us as children, and it was not a comfortable experience.

Suffice to say our three daughters consider themselves Christians. The eldest is an Anglican priest. Fortunately they aren't Biblical literalists, and they are good upstanding people. They wouldn't dream of pushing their faith down the throats of their father and I, or the married ones, their husbands and children.

Do others see it our way?

I do agree with this approach, but if one of my children did become religious, I might feel that I had failed to educate them well.

I would have to agree with that. If a child accepts a religion, they are accepting a system of belief in the irrational and illogical, a system of magical thinking over a system of thinking, a system of believing over a system of understanding.

Yeah, I would feel I have failed to teach my children to think if they accepted a religion.
Marrying a 6 year old and waiting until she reaches puberty and maturity before having consensual sex is better than walking up to
a stranger in a bar and proceeding to have relations with no valid proof of the intent of the person. Muhammad wins. ~ Fatihah
If they don't want to be killed then they have to subdue to the Islamic laws. - Uncung
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UndeniableReality
Posts: 1,897
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2/19/2015 12:10:46 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 2/19/2015 12:04:45 PM, bornofgod wrote:
At 2/19/2015 11:32:00 AM, UndeniableReality wrote:
At 2/19/2015 11:27:21 AM, JJ50 wrote:
My husband, an atheist, and I an agnostic, decided that when our children came along we would let them decide for themselves about religion. As none of it is provable we think it is a matter of personal choice and should NEVER be forced on anyone. We had religion forced on us as children, and it was not a comfortable experience.

Suffice to say our three daughters consider themselves Christians. The eldest is an Anglican priest. Fortunately they aren't Biblical literalists, and they are good upstanding people. They wouldn't dream of pushing their faith down the throats of their father and I, or the married ones, their husbands and children.

Do others see it our way?

I do agree with this approach, but if one of my children did become religious, I might feel that I had failed to educate them well.

Don't feel bad about how God planned for your child to become religious. He planned for me to become a saint long before He came into my mind and spoke these words, "I AM YOUR CREATOR", just before I went out to get drunk that night on December 7th, 1979. In fact, he took away my desire to drink alcohol two days later. I was amazed at this because I was thinking I would die an alcoholic within five years.

Did god plan to make sure I had never heard of god until I was too old to be indoctrinated? In my opinion, the difference between a 'saint' or a 'swami' and someone with psychosis is the title given to them by the people around them.

I don't know why your story about being an alcoholic has any meaning or relevance here.
UndeniableReality
Posts: 1,897
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2/19/2015 12:11:50 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 2/19/2015 12:08:38 PM, DanneJeRusse wrote:
At 2/19/2015 11:32:00 AM, UndeniableReality wrote:
At 2/19/2015 11:27:21 AM, JJ50 wrote:
My husband, an atheist, and I an agnostic, decided that when our children came along we would let them decide for themselves about religion. As none of it is provable we think it is a matter of personal choice and should NEVER be forced on anyone. We had religion forced on us as children, and it was not a comfortable experience.

Suffice to say our three daughters consider themselves Christians. The eldest is an Anglican priest. Fortunately they aren't Biblical literalists, and they are good upstanding people. They wouldn't dream of pushing their faith down the throats of their father and I, or the married ones, their husbands and children.

Do others see it our way?

I do agree with this approach, but if one of my children did become religious, I might feel that I had failed to educate them well.

I would have to agree with that. If a child accepts a religion, they are accepting a system of belief in the irrational and illogical, a system of magical thinking over a system of thinking, a system of believing over a system of understanding.

Yeah, I would feel I have failed to teach my children to think if they accepted a religion.

Thank you for phrasing it more eloquently than I did.
bornofgod
Posts: 11,322
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2/19/2015 12:12:30 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 2/19/2015 12:10:46 PM, UndeniableReality wrote:
At 2/19/2015 12:04:45 PM, bornofgod wrote:
At 2/19/2015 11:32:00 AM, UndeniableReality wrote:
At 2/19/2015 11:27:21 AM, JJ50 wrote:
My husband, an atheist, and I an agnostic, decided that when our children came along we would let them decide for themselves about religion. As none of it is provable we think it is a matter of personal choice and should NEVER be forced on anyone. We had religion forced on us as children, and it was not a comfortable experience.

Suffice to say our three daughters consider themselves Christians. The eldest is an Anglican priest. Fortunately they aren't Biblical literalists, and they are good upstanding people. They wouldn't dream of pushing their faith down the throats of their father and I, or the married ones, their husbands and children.

Do others see it our way?

I do agree with this approach, but if one of my children did become religious, I might feel that I had failed to educate them well.

Don't feel bad about how God planned for your child to become religious. He planned for me to become a saint long before He came into my mind and spoke these words, "I AM YOUR CREATOR", just before I went out to get drunk that night on December 7th, 1979. In fact, he took away my desire to drink alcohol two days later. I was amazed at this because I was thinking I would die an alcoholic within five years.

Did god plan to make sure I had never heard of god until I was too old to be indoctrinated? In my opinion, the difference between a 'saint' or a 'swami' and someone with psychosis is the title given to them by the people around them.

I don't know why your story about being an alcoholic has any meaning or relevance here.

Just to let you know that our Creator planned everything before His program called Eternal Life went into play mode.
GamrDeb8rBbrH8r
Posts: 341
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2/19/2015 12:14:55 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 2/19/2015 11:27:21 AM, JJ50 wrote:
My husband, an atheist, and I an agnostic, decided that when our children came along we would let them decide for themselves about religion. As none of it is provable we think it is a matter of personal choice and should NEVER be forced on anyone. We had religion forced on us as children, and it was not a comfortable experience.

Suffice to say our three daughters consider themselves Christians. The eldest is an Anglican priest. Fortunately they aren't Biblical literalists, and they are good upstanding people. They wouldn't dream of pushing their faith down the throats of their father and I, or the married ones, their husbands and children.

Do others see it our way?

I see it ur way.
"There's no diversity because we're burning in the melting pot."

-Immortal Technique

Rap battle VS Truth_Seeker: http://www.debate.org...
GamrDeb8rBbrH8r
Posts: 341
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2/19/2015 12:15:38 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 2/19/2015 11:41:35 AM, bornofgod wrote:
At 2/19/2015 11:27:21 AM, JJ50 wrote:
My husband, an atheist, and I an agnostic, decided that when our children came along we would let them decide for themselves about religion. As none of it is provable we think it is a matter of personal choice and should NEVER be forced on anyone. We had religion forced on us as children, and it was not a comfortable experience.

Suffice to say our three daughters consider themselves Christians. The eldest is an Anglican priest. Fortunately they aren't Biblical literalists, and they are good upstanding people. They wouldn't dream of pushing their faith down the throats of their father and I, or the married ones, their husbands and children.

Do others see it our way?

You will do exactly as God planned for you to do.

He will do exactly as he chooses for himself.
"There's no diversity because we're burning in the melting pot."

-Immortal Technique

Rap battle VS Truth_Seeker: http://www.debate.org...
UndeniableReality
Posts: 1,897
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2/19/2015 12:26:00 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 2/19/2015 12:12:30 PM, bornofgod wrote:
At 2/19/2015 12:10:46 PM, UndeniableReality wrote:
At 2/19/2015 12:04:45 PM, bornofgod wrote:
At 2/19/2015 11:32:00 AM, UndeniableReality wrote:
At 2/19/2015 11:27:21 AM, JJ50 wrote:
My husband, an atheist, and I an agnostic, decided that when our children came along we would let them decide for themselves about religion. As none of it is provable we think it is a matter of personal choice and should NEVER be forced on anyone. We had religion forced on us as children, and it was not a comfortable experience.

Suffice to say our three daughters consider themselves Christians. The eldest is an Anglican priest. Fortunately they aren't Biblical literalists, and they are good upstanding people. They wouldn't dream of pushing their faith down the throats of their father and I, or the married ones, their husbands and children.

Do others see it our way?

I do agree with this approach, but if one of my children did become religious, I might feel that I had failed to educate them well.

Don't feel bad about how God planned for your child to become religious. He planned for me to become a saint long before He came into my mind and spoke these words, "I AM YOUR CREATOR", just before I went out to get drunk that night on December 7th, 1979. In fact, he took away my desire to drink alcohol two days later. I was amazed at this because I was thinking I would die an alcoholic within five years.

Did god plan to make sure I had never heard of god until I was too old to be indoctrinated? In my opinion, the difference between a 'saint' or a 'swami' and someone with psychosis is the title given to them by the people around them.

I don't know why your story about being an alcoholic has any meaning or relevance here.

Just to let you know that our Creator planned everything before His program called Eternal Life went into play mode.

This is an absolutely useless comment. Whether or not what you say is true, it has zero impact on our subject experience of reality.
ford_prefect
Posts: 4,138
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2/19/2015 2:34:05 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
I decided that when my children come along I will let them decide for themselves about morality. As none of it is provable, I think it is a matter of personal choice and should NEVER be forced on anyone. I had morality forced on me as a child, and it was not a comfortable experience.

Do others see it my way?
LostintheEcho1498
Posts: 234
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2/19/2015 2:41:52 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 2/19/2015 11:27:21 AM, JJ50 wrote:
My husband, an atheist, and I an agnostic, decided that when our children came along we would let them decide for themselves about religion. As none of it is provable we think it is a matter of personal choice and should NEVER be forced on anyone. We had religion forced on us as children, and it was not a comfortable experience.

Suffice to say our three daughters consider themselves Christians. The eldest is an Anglican priest. Fortunately they aren't Biblical literalists, and they are good upstanding people. They wouldn't dream of pushing their faith down the throats of their father and I, or the married ones, their husbands and children.

Do others see it our way?

I practice a very quiet way of preaching and it only involves asking. If someone wants to know about my religion, I tell them. I don't actively proselyte to people I personally know to ensure that I don't use personal friendships as leverage to get others into my religion. If they are a complete stranger, however, I feel it is more acceptable to openly teach as you are doing it in name of religion only, not as a peer pressure activity. Just my opinion.
UndeniableReality
Posts: 1,897
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2/19/2015 2:45:33 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 2/19/2015 2:34:05 PM, ford_prefect wrote:
I decided that when my children come along I will let them decide for themselves about morality. As none of it is provable, I think it is a matter of personal choice and should NEVER be forced on anyone. I had morality forced on me as a child, and it was not a comfortable experience.

Do others see it my way?

Are you somehow under the impression that that was a meaningful analogy?
ford_prefect
Posts: 4,138
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2/19/2015 2:46:53 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 2/19/2015 2:45:33 PM, UndeniableReality wrote:
At 2/19/2015 2:34:05 PM, ford_prefect wrote:
I decided that when my children come along I will let them decide for themselves about morality. As none of it is provable, I think it is a matter of personal choice and should NEVER be forced on anyone. I had morality forced on me as a child, and it was not a comfortable experience.

Do others see it my way?

Are you somehow under the impression that that was a meaningful analogy?

Are you somehow under the impression that morality is objectively provable without religion?
UndeniableReality
Posts: 1,897
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2/19/2015 2:57:46 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 2/19/2015 2:46:53 PM, ford_prefect wrote:
At 2/19/2015 2:45:33 PM, UndeniableReality wrote:
At 2/19/2015 2:34:05 PM, ford_prefect wrote:
I decided that when my children come along I will let them decide for themselves about morality. As none of it is provable, I think it is a matter of personal choice and should NEVER be forced on anyone. I had morality forced on me as a child, and it was not a comfortable experience.

Do others see it my way?

Are you somehow under the impression that that was a meaningful analogy?

Are you somehow under the impression that morality is objectively provable without religion?

Are you somehow under the impression that morality can only either be statically predefined or whimsically a matter of personal choice? Is your world that absurdly binary?
ChristianPunk
Posts: 1,710
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2/19/2015 3:00:49 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 2/19/2015 11:27:21 AM, JJ50 wrote:
My husband, an atheist, and I an agnostic, decided that when our children came along we would let them decide for themselves about religion. As none of it is provable we think it is a matter of personal choice and should NEVER be forced on anyone. We had religion forced on us as children, and it was not a comfortable experience.

Suffice to say our three daughters consider themselves Christians. The eldest is an Anglican priest. Fortunately they aren't Biblical literalists, and they are good upstanding people. They wouldn't dream of pushing their faith down the throats of their father and I, or the married ones, their husbands and children.

Do others see it our way?

You have done what I would've done. Not only did your daughters became christians, but became educated. They learned how to utilize their brains and read for themselves instead of letting the preachers or parents read for them. I'm glad they had you as a parent because you are willing to allow them to decide what religious path to choose and like most decisions, is hard for a parent to allow their kid to do. I only wish fundamentalists knew of you so they could learn being raised in an atheist/agnostic home is not bad or a threat to religion.
ford_prefect
Posts: 4,138
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2/19/2015 3:07:35 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 2/19/2015 2:57:46 PM, UndeniableReality wrote:
At 2/19/2015 2:46:53 PM, ford_prefect wrote:
At 2/19/2015 2:45:33 PM, UndeniableReality wrote:
At 2/19/2015 2:34:05 PM, ford_prefect wrote:
I decided that when my children come along I will let them decide for themselves about morality. As none of it is provable, I think it is a matter of personal choice and should NEVER be forced on anyone. I had morality forced on me as a child, and it was not a comfortable experience.

Do others see it my way?

Are you somehow under the impression that that was a meaningful analogy?

Are you somehow under the impression that morality is objectively provable without religion?

Are you somehow under the impression that morality can only either be statically predefined or whimsically a matter of personal choice? Is your world that absurdly binary?

I obviously don't believe morality is a whimsical matter of personal choice. It's called sarcasm. However, atheists' faith that there is no God paints them into a corner where they must either abandon all morality, or accept that it's completely subjective and therefore meaningless.
UndeniableReality
Posts: 1,897
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2/19/2015 3:13:47 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 2/19/2015 3:07:35 PM, ford_prefect wrote:
At 2/19/2015 2:57:46 PM, UndeniableReality wrote:
At 2/19/2015 2:46:53 PM, ford_prefect wrote:
At 2/19/2015 2:45:33 PM, UndeniableReality wrote:
At 2/19/2015 2:34:05 PM, ford_prefect wrote:
I decided that when my children come along I will let them decide for themselves about morality. As none of it is provable, I think it is a matter of personal choice and should NEVER be forced on anyone. I had morality forced on me as a child, and it was not a comfortable experience.

Do others see it my way?

Are you somehow under the impression that that was a meaningful analogy?

Are you somehow under the impression that morality is objectively provable without religion?

Are you somehow under the impression that morality can only either be statically predefined or whimsically a matter of personal choice? Is your world that absurdly binary?

I obviously don't believe morality is a whimsical matter of personal choice. It's called sarcasm. However, atheists' faith that there is no God paints them into a corner where they must either abandon all morality, or accept that it's completely subjective and therefore meaningless.

I don't think you understood my comment. I'm asking why you believe those are the only two options.
ford_prefect
Posts: 4,138
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2/19/2015 3:15:36 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 2/19/2015 3:13:47 PM, UndeniableReality wrote:
At 2/19/2015 3:07:35 PM, ford_prefect wrote:
At 2/19/2015 2:57:46 PM, UndeniableReality wrote:
At 2/19/2015 2:46:53 PM, ford_prefect wrote:
At 2/19/2015 2:45:33 PM, UndeniableReality wrote:
At 2/19/2015 2:34:05 PM, ford_prefect wrote:
I decided that when my children come along I will let them decide for themselves about morality. As none of it is provable, I think it is a matter of personal choice and should NEVER be forced on anyone. I had morality forced on me as a child, and it was not a comfortable experience.

Do others see it my way?

Are you somehow under the impression that that was a meaningful analogy?

Are you somehow under the impression that morality is objectively provable without religion?

Are you somehow under the impression that morality can only either be statically predefined or whimsically a matter of personal choice? Is your world that absurdly binary?

I obviously don't believe morality is a whimsical matter of personal choice. It's called sarcasm. However, atheists' faith that there is no God paints them into a corner where they must either abandon all morality, or accept that it's completely subjective and therefore meaningless.

I don't think you understood my comment. I'm asking why you believe those are the only two options.

I don't think you understood my reply. I'm explaining that there is only one correct option. The other option is not only incorrect, it is also a danger to civilized society.
Harikrish
Posts: 11,005
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2/19/2015 3:16:09 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 2/19/2015 12:04:45 PM, bornofgod wrote:
At 2/19/2015 11:32:00 AM, UndeniableReality wrote:
At 2/19/2015 11:27:21 AM, JJ50 wrote:
My husband, an atheist, and I an agnostic, decided that when our children came along we would let them decide for themselves about religion. As none of it is provable we think it is a matter of personal choice and should NEVER be forced on anyone. We had religion forced on us as children, and it was not a comfortable experience.

Suffice to say our three daughters consider themselves Christians. The eldest is an Anglican priest. Fortunately they aren't Biblical literalists, and they are good upstanding people. They wouldn't dream of pushing their faith down the throats of their father and I, or the married ones, their husbands and children.

Do others see it our way?

I do agree with this approach, but if one of my children did become religious, I might feel that I had failed to educate them well.

Don't feel bad about how God planned for your child to become religious. He planned for me to become a saint long before He came into my mind and spoke these words, "I AM YOUR CREATOR", just before I went out to get drunk that night on December 7th, 1979. In fact, he took away my desire to drink alcohol two days later. I was amazed at this because I was thinking I would die an alcoholic within five years.
Brad, get your story straight. It took 29 years before God removed your dependence on alcohol which caused you great pains and lots of deep crying. But your sins(alcohol) dependence was reduced over a period of 29 years, not 2 days.
The 2 days was after you came clean that you received God. By then you had lost your possessions, dumped by your family and ended up homeless with serious brain damage. It was also when your delusions began.

Here in your own words: " God is nothing but thoughts so there is no evidence of his existence. This is why God chose his people before creation and created them together as the Word. This Word is actually light energy that was needed to take his plans and create everything else according to these plans. I just happen to be one of those he chose. He revealed himself to me on Dec. 8, 1979 while I was still an alcoholic.

It took him 29 more years of giving me many different commands for me to obey. His main objective was to get me sinless through the process of confession, repentance and forgiveness of sins. He actually changes the genetic sin traits to stop the power of sin so he had me on the floor eight different times while he was removing my sins. This caused me great pain and lots of deep crying.

Two days after he got me sinless, I started getting new thoughts and within a short time, he began teaching me what was happening to me. I soon learned I was his saint but it took another year before I learned I was created together with Jesus, the prophets and the other saints."
DanneJeRusse
Posts: 12,609
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2/19/2015 3:19:31 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 2/19/2015 3:07:35 PM, ford_prefect wrote:
However, atheists' faith that there is no God paints them into a corner where they must either abandon all morality, or accept that it's completely subjective and therefore meaningless.

I'm somewhat puzzled as to what moralities you refer and what exactly is subjective and meaningless?
Marrying a 6 year old and waiting until she reaches puberty and maturity before having consensual sex is better than walking up to
a stranger in a bar and proceeding to have relations with no valid proof of the intent of the person. Muhammad wins. ~ Fatihah
If they don't want to be killed then they have to subdue to the Islamic laws. - Uncung
Without God, you are lower than sh!t. ~ SpiritandTruth
ford_prefect
Posts: 4,138
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2/19/2015 3:25:20 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 2/19/2015 3:19:31 PM, DanneJeRusse wrote:
At 2/19/2015 3:07:35 PM, ford_prefect wrote:
However, atheists' faith that there is no God paints them into a corner where they must either abandon all morality, or accept that it's completely subjective and therefore meaningless.

I'm somewhat puzzled as to what moralities you refer and what exactly is subjective and meaningless?

For example: Is it wrong for me to painlessly kill a hermit while he sleeps? If so, why is that wrong? He does not support anyone financially, and he is not beloved or even known by any other people. Nobody will mourn him. According to atheists, he will not go to an afterlife of any sort, and he will never even know he died. He will not suffer at all. How can you say my killing him is wrong? What harm am I doing? Is life better than death? If so, why? Who says so? Is it the hermit who says so? If he says so, why is his word more important than mine, if I believe death is better than life? If it is society who says so, what if society also says slavery is better than free labor? Or persecution and holocaust is better than tolerance? Societies have decided these things in the past, you know.
UndeniableReality
Posts: 1,897
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2/19/2015 3:29:28 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 2/19/2015 3:15:36 PM, ford_prefect wrote:
At 2/19/2015 3:13:47 PM, UndeniableReality wrote:
At 2/19/2015 3:07:35 PM, ford_prefect wrote:
At 2/19/2015 2:57:46 PM, UndeniableReality wrote:
At 2/19/2015 2:46:53 PM, ford_prefect wrote:
At 2/19/2015 2:45:33 PM, UndeniableReality wrote:
At 2/19/2015 2:34:05 PM, ford_prefect wrote:
I decided that when my children come along I will let them decide for themselves about morality. As none of it is provable, I think it is a matter of personal choice and should NEVER be forced on anyone. I had morality forced on me as a child, and it was not a comfortable experience.

Do others see it my way?

Are you somehow under the impression that that was a meaningful analogy?

Are you somehow under the impression that morality is objectively provable without religion?

Are you somehow under the impression that morality can only either be statically predefined or whimsically a matter of personal choice? Is your world that absurdly binary?

I obviously don't believe morality is a whimsical matter of personal choice. It's called sarcasm. However, atheists' faith that there is no God paints them into a corner where they must either abandon all morality, or accept that it's completely subjective and therefore meaningless.

I don't think you understood my comment. I'm asking why you believe those are the only two options.

I don't think you understood my reply. I'm explaining that there is only one correct option. The other option is not only incorrect, it is also a danger to civilized society.

Again, on what basis do you presume those are the only two options?
Harikrish
Posts: 11,005
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2/19/2015 3:36:59 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 2/19/2015 11:27:21 AM, JJ50 wrote:
My husband, an atheist, and I an agnostic, decided that when our children came along we would let them decide for themselves about religion. As none of it is provable we think it is a matter of personal choice and should NEVER be forced on anyone. We had religion forced on us as children, and it was not a comfortable experience.

Suffice to say our three daughters consider themselves Christians. The eldest is an Anglican priest. Fortunately they aren't Biblical literalists, and they are good upstanding people. They wouldn't dream of pushing their faith down the throats of their father and I, or the married ones, their husbands and children.

Do others see it our way?

I hope it works out for your girls. If I had girls I would not encourage them to go to church or read tbe bible. My boys go to church to pickup girls. And since tbe girls are already exposed to virgin birth, incest, rape, sin and eternal forgiveness. There is little my boys have left to teach them.
Parents of these girls call me to send their girls home. But I refuse because my sons will stop going to church if I take their source of spirituality away from them.
I feel for the parents of girls going to church. But it works for my boys.
ford_prefect
Posts: 4,138
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2/19/2015 3:44:04 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 2/19/2015 3:29:28 PM, UndeniableReality wrote:
At 2/19/2015 3:15:36 PM, ford_prefect wrote:
At 2/19/2015 3:13:47 PM, UndeniableReality wrote:
At 2/19/2015 3:07:35 PM, ford_prefect wrote:
At 2/19/2015 2:57:46 PM, UndeniableReality wrote:
At 2/19/2015 2:46:53 PM, ford_prefect wrote:
At 2/19/2015 2:45:33 PM, UndeniableReality wrote:
At 2/19/2015 2:34:05 PM, ford_prefect wrote:
I decided that when my children come along I will let them decide for themselves about morality. As none of it is provable, I think it is a matter of personal choice and should NEVER be forced on anyone. I had morality forced on me as a child, and it was not a comfortable experience.

Do others see it my way?

Are you somehow under the impression that that was a meaningful analogy?

Are you somehow under the impression that morality is objectively provable without religion?

Are you somehow under the impression that morality can only either be statically predefined or whimsically a matter of personal choice? Is your world that absurdly binary?

I obviously don't believe morality is a whimsical matter of personal choice. It's called sarcasm. However, atheists' faith that there is no God paints them into a corner where they must either abandon all morality, or accept that it's completely subjective and therefore meaningless.

I don't think you understood my comment. I'm asking why you believe those are the only two options.

I don't think you understood my reply. I'm explaining that there is only one correct option. The other option is not only incorrect, it is also a danger to civilized society.

Again, on what basis do you presume those are the only two options?

On the same basis that I presume the only two options of a coinflip's result are heads and tails. On what basis do you presume that there can be another option?