Total Posts:57|Showing Posts:1-30|Last Page
Jump to topic:

51% of scientists believe in God

drpiek
Posts: 589
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
2/20/2015 6:02:22 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
According to the poll, just over half of scientists (51%) believe in some form of deity or higher power; specifically, 33% of scientists say they believe in God, while 18% believe in a universal spirit or higher power. Give it time and the other half will too because science is just another path to God.

http://www.pewforum.org...
drpiek
Posts: 589
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
2/20/2015 6:18:30 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
98%+ of Elite scientist believe

A study of 642 elite scientists limited their survey to only those born in America. Only 1.4% "listed themselves as atheists or agnostics." But don"t conclude that the rest were avid church attenders. While over three fourths indicated affiliation with a religious body and over one half attended services two or more times per month, 38.5 % of the total number of scientists answered "no" to the question: "Do you believe in life after death?" Of course, many people who believe in God don"t believe in life after death.

http://randalrauser.com...
Envisage
Posts: 3,646
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
2/20/2015 6:34:46 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 2/20/2015 6:02:22 AM, drpiek wrote:
According to the poll, just over half of scientists (51%) believe in some form of deity or higher power; specifically, 33% of scientists say they believe in God, while 18% believe in a universal spirit or higher power. Give it time and the other half will too because science is just another path to God.

http://www.pewforum.org...

Um...

About 150 years ago that number would have been in excess of 90%.

So the trend is going against your prediction it seems. Seems your prediction isn't a scientific one.
RuvDraba
Posts: 6,033
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
2/20/2015 7:02:56 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 2/20/2015 6:02:22 AM, drpiek wrote:
According to the poll, just over half of scientists (51%) believe in some form of deity or higher power; specifically, 33% of scientists say they believe in God, while 18% believe in a universal spirit or higher power. Give it time and the other half will too because science is just another path to God.

There are several problems with this conclusion, Dr P.

From the same article:

members of this group are, on the whole, much less religious than the general public. Indeed, the survey shows that scientists are roughly half as likely as the general public to believe in God or a higher power.

If science were leading humanity back to Jesus, surely Christianity among scientists would be higher than that for society?

And I wouldn't be so quick to claim the 18% as Christian. Many people who believe in a 'universal power' do not hold to the divinity of Jesus, and therefore would fail a basic test for adherence to the Nicene Creed. One could more accurately categorise them as Deists than Christians, and as you may know, Deism has long been viewed as a heresy by Christian sects.

Finally, it may be worse still for the science/religion divide, because the best scientists are even less religious than average scientists. The US National Academy of Science has conducted a religiosity survey of its members for most of the 20th century, and there, theism is down to around 7% -- and this is in the US -- a country where religiosity is highest in the developed world. That figure has dropped consistently over the last century, down from 28% in 1914.

It mightn't be true that science creates atheists -- it might rather be true that atheists are drawn to science. But even if so, then the massively disproportionate success of atheists in science might indicate that religion is either better at attracting the stupid than the smart (as Richard Dawkins suggests), or has the unfortunate consequence of ruining scientific inquiry. :p
RuvDraba
Posts: 6,033
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
2/20/2015 7:27:14 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
Addendum:

Link to the salient table from the survey of "greater" scientists:

http://www.nature.com...

Leading scientists still reject God
Edward J. Larson and Larry Witham
Nature 394, 313 (23 July 1998)
YassineB
Posts: 1,003
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
2/20/2015 7:34:50 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 2/20/2015 6:02:22 AM, drpiek wrote:
According to the poll, just over half of scientists (51%) believe in some form of deity or higher power; specifically, 33% of scientists say they believe in God, while 18% believe in a universal spirit or higher power. Give it time and the other half will too because science is just another path to God.

http://www.pewforum.org...

- I'd like to see the same Poll done in a muslim Country. Believe me, it would look radically different.
Current Debates In Voting Period:

- The Qur'an We Have Today is Not What Muhammad Dictated Verbatim. Vs. @Envisage:
http://www.debate.org...

- Drawing Contest. Vs. @purpleduck:
http://www.debate.org...

"It is perfectly permissible to vote on sources without reading them" bluesteel.
celestialtorahteacher
Posts: 1,369
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
2/20/2015 7:50:14 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
God is leading science to God. As a true prophesy bearer with proof I was alone in 1979 to publicly state that dinosaurs never became extinct, that in fact they were still with us in great numbers, as the birds. One paleontologist came out in support of that idea in 1986 and of course with the Chinese finds through the 90's the dinosaur/bird theory became well established. I have no formal training in paleontology but do have a life long interest in all forms of life, past and present.

Also in 1979 I predicted how a Unified Field Theory could be established by linking atomic bonding with galactic Black Hole compression and this theory can also be found in religious language form in the Gospel of Humanity written last decade. I predict it will become the basis of a Unified Field Theory.

Prophesy bearing by necessity now to address the complexity of New Age social conditions must come from a polymath prophet-at-large and it has, God be praised, Hallelujah! The Spirit of Christ is Alive and well. Let's watch that good sci-fi movie, "Serenity" again and see those cannibal Reavers who our ISIS killer apes so resemble.
JJ50
Posts: 2,144
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
2/20/2015 7:52:48 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 2/20/2015 7:50:14 AM, celestialtorahteacher wrote:
God is leading science to God. As a true prophesy bearer with proof I was alone in 1979 to publicly state that dinosaurs never became extinct, that in fact they were still with us in great numbers, as the birds. One paleontologist came out in support of that idea in 1986 and of course with the Chinese finds through the 90's the dinosaur/bird theory became well established. I have no formal training in paleontology but do have a life long interest in all forms of life, past and present.

Also in 1979 I predicted how a Unified Field Theory could be established by linking atomic bonding with galactic Black Hole compression and this theory can also be found in religious language form in the Gospel of Humanity written last decade. I predict it will become the basis of a Unified Field Theory.

Prophesy bearing by necessity now to address the complexity of New Age social conditions must come from a polymath prophet-at-large and it has, God be praised, Hallelujah! The Spirit of Christ is Alive and well. Let's watch that good sci-fi movie, "Serenity" again and see those cannibal Reavers who our ISIS killer apes so resemble.

Wow a brontosaurus has just passed my window, lol!
Graincruncher
Posts: 2,799
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
2/20/2015 7:58:26 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 2/20/2015 7:50:14 AM, celestialtorahteacher wrote:
God is leading science to God. As a true prophesy bearer with proof I was alone in 1979 to publicly state that dinosaurs never became extinct, that in fact they were still with us in great numbers, as the birds. One paleontologist came out in support of that idea in 1986 and of course with the Chinese finds through the 90's the dinosaur/bird theory became well established. I have no formal training in paleontology but do have a life long interest in all forms of life, past and present.

Also in 1979 I predicted how a Unified Field Theory could be established by linking atomic bonding with galactic Black Hole compression and this theory can also be found in religious language form in the Gospel of Humanity written last decade. I predict it will become the basis of a Unified Field Theory.

Prophesy bearing by necessity now to address the complexity of New Age social conditions must come from a polymath prophet-at-large and it has, God be praised, Hallelujah! The Spirit of Christ is Alive and well. Let's watch that good sci-fi movie, "Serenity" again and see those cannibal Reavers who our ISIS killer apes so resemble.

Sooo... you predicted evolution happens, well after the start of evolutionary theory?

*slow clap*
dee-em
Posts: 6,445
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
2/20/2015 8:08:43 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 2/20/2015 6:18:30 AM, drpiek wrote:
98%+ of Elite scientist believe

A study of 642 elite scientists limited their survey to only those born in America. Only 1.4% "listed themselves as atheists or agnostics." But don"t conclude that the rest were avid church attenders. While over three fourths indicated affiliation with a religious body and over one half attended services two or more times per month, 38.5 % of the total number of scientists answered "no" to the question: "Do you believe in life after death?" Of course, many people who believe in God don"t believe in life after death.

http://randalrauser.com...

That study is from 1966, almost 50 years ago. Hardly still relevant today.

Your "98%+ of Elite scientists believe" is a fabrication since no account is taken of those scientists who were only nominally religious. Many people then, and even today, list their religious affiliation as the religion they were brought up in without necessarily believing.
dee-em
Posts: 6,445
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
2/20/2015 8:28:38 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
The downward trend in religiosity amongst leading scientists is evident here:

https://www.lhup.edu...

Disbelief in God and immortality among NAS biological scientists was 65.2% and 69.0%, respectively, and among NAS physical scientists it was 79.0% and 76.3%. Most of the rest were agnostics on both issues, with few believers. We found the highest percentage of belief among NAS mathematicians (14.3% in God, 15.0% in immortality). Biological scientists had the lowest rate of belief (5.5% in God, 7.1% in immortality), with physicists and astronomers slightly higher (7.5% in God, 7.5% in immortality).
Born.Atheist
Posts: 11
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
2/20/2015 8:44:19 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
I'll just say it now: until death comes knocking on our door, we will never know the existence of God to be true or false. That's why it's called belief.
dee-em
Posts: 6,445
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
2/20/2015 8:49:11 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 2/20/2015 7:50:14 AM, celestialtorahteacher wrote:
God is leading science to God. As a true prophesy bearer with proof I was alone in 1979 to publicly state that dinosaurs never became extinct, that in fact they were still with us in great numbers, as the birds. One paleontologist came out in support of that idea in 1986 and of course with the Chinese finds through the 90's the dinosaur/bird theory became well established. I have no formal training in paleontology but do have a life long interest in all forms of life, past and present.

BS. Thomas Huxley first suggested the link way back in the 1870's.

http://en.wikipedia.org...

Also in 1979 I predicted how a Unified Field Theory could be established by linking atomic bonding with galactic Black Hole compression and this theory can also be found in religious language form in the Gospel of Humanity written last decade. I predict it will become the basis of a Unified Field Theory.

More BS. Where is your paper published? Link to it.

Prophesy bearing by necessity now to address the complexity of New Age social conditions must come from a polymath prophet-at-large and it has, God be praised, Hallelujah! The Spirit of Christ is Alive and well. Let's watch that good sci-fi movie, "Serenity" again and see those cannibal Reavers who our ISIS killer apes so resemble.

You need help, badly.
Graincruncher
Posts: 2,799
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
2/20/2015 8:55:04 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 2/20/2015 8:53:37 AM, Benshapiro wrote:
The majority of scientists believe in God. Good to know.

And now we see how the religious go about their cherry-picking. Namely: with gusto.
Benshapiro
Posts: 3,932
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
2/20/2015 8:56:20 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 2/20/2015 8:55:04 AM, Graincruncher wrote:
At 2/20/2015 8:53:37 AM, Benshapiro wrote:
The majority of scientists believe in God. Good to know.

And now we see how the religious go about their cherry-picking. Namely: with gusto.

(1) it says nothing about religion (2) a portion of a whole that is greater than the remained is the "majority" so it's a simple deduction.
Graincruncher
Posts: 2,799
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
2/20/2015 8:57:31 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 2/20/2015 8:56:20 AM, Benshapiro wrote:
At 2/20/2015 8:55:04 AM, Graincruncher wrote:
At 2/20/2015 8:53:37 AM, Benshapiro wrote:
The majority of scientists believe in God. Good to know.

And now we see how the religious go about their cherry-picking. Namely: with gusto.

(1) it says nothing about religion (2) a portion of a whole that is greater than the remained is the "majority" so it's a simple deduction.

That's quite some non sequitur you've got there. Fancy addressing what I actually said, now?
Benshapiro
Posts: 3,932
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
2/20/2015 9:00:16 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 2/20/2015 8:57:31 AM, Graincruncher wrote:
At 2/20/2015 8:56:20 AM, Benshapiro wrote:
At 2/20/2015 8:55:04 AM, Graincruncher wrote:
At 2/20/2015 8:53:37 AM, Benshapiro wrote:
The majority of scientists believe in God. Good to know.

And now we see how the religious go about their cherry-picking. Namely: with gusto.

(1) it says nothing about religion (2) a portion of a whole that is greater than the remained is the "majority" so it's a simple deduction.

That's quite some non sequitur you've got there. Fancy addressing what I actually said, now?

... This makes no sense. A non sequitur is a statement that does not logically follow from the previous argument or statement. Point out where I made a non sequitur. In my post I had addressed what you said.
Graincruncher
Posts: 2,799
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
2/20/2015 9:04:48 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 2/20/2015 9:00:16 AM, Benshapiro wrote:
At 2/20/2015 8:57:31 AM, Graincruncher wrote:
At 2/20/2015 8:56:20 AM, Benshapiro wrote:
At 2/20/2015 8:55:04 AM, Graincruncher wrote:
At 2/20/2015 8:53:37 AM, Benshapiro wrote:
The majority of scientists believe in God. Good to know.

And now we see how the religious go about their cherry-picking. Namely: with gusto.

(1) it says nothing about religion (2) a portion of a whole that is greater than the remained is the "majority" so it's a simple deduction.

That's quite some non sequitur you've got there. Fancy addressing what I actually said, now?

... This makes no sense. A non sequitur is a statement that does not logically follow from the previous argument or statement. Point out where I made a non sequitur. In my post I had addressed what you said.

Sure thing, champ:

I said 'the religious'. This is not the same thing as 'religion', which is a concept and therefore not capable of processing data at all, let alone exhibiting selection bias in doing so. So while it doesn't say anything about religion itself, pointing out the fact it doesn't say anything about religion when it wasn't attempting to do so is a non sequitur; it does not follow as an objection or even worthwhile comment.

If you'd bothered to read anything other than your very eagerly and obviously selected data point, you'd know that the majority argument is entirely incorrect as the figures show quite the opposite. Not that I mentioned anything about majority or otherwise, of course, so further non sequitur here.
Benshapiro
Posts: 3,932
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
2/20/2015 9:15:14 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 2/20/2015 9:04:48 AM, Graincruncher wrote:
At 2/20/2015 9:00:16 AM, Benshapiro wrote:
At 2/20/2015 8:57:31 AM, Graincruncher wrote:
At 2/20/2015 8:56:20 AM, Benshapiro wrote:
At 2/20/2015 8:55:04 AM, Graincruncher wrote:
At 2/20/2015 8:53:37 AM, Benshapiro wrote:
The majority of scientists believe in God. Good to know.

And now we see how the religious go about their cherry-picking. Namely: with gusto.

(1) it says nothing about religion (2) a portion of a whole that is greater than the remained is the "majority" so it's a simple deduction.

That's quite some non sequitur you've got there. Fancy addressing what I actually said, now?

... This makes no sense. A non sequitur is a statement that does not logically follow from the previous argument or statement. Point out where I made a non sequitur. In my post I had addressed what you said.

Sure thing, champ:

I said 'the religious'. This is not the same thing as 'religion', which is a concept and therefore not capable of processing data at all, let alone exhibiting selection bias in doing so. So while it doesn't say anything about religion itself, pointing out the fact it doesn't say anything about religion when it wasn't attempting to do so is a non sequitur; it does not follow as an objection or even worthwhile comment.

Hold up. "Religious" refers to a specific group of people. When you said that this is how the "religious" go about cherry-picking you're referring to that group. This statistic nothing to do with being religious because not all people who believe in God are religious. Therefore anyone who uses this statistic does not refer to the "religious" as you've claimed.


If you'd bothered to read anything other than your very eagerly and obviously selected data point, you'd know that the majority argument is entirely incorrect as the figures show quite the opposite. Not that I mentioned anything about majority or otherwise, of course, so further non sequitur here.

How is it cherry picking? I can assert stuff all day. It means nothing unless backed by evidence.
Graincruncher
Posts: 2,799
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
2/20/2015 9:19:01 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 2/20/2015 9:15:14 AM, Benshapiro wrote:
Hold up. "Religious" refers to a specific group of people. When you said that this is how the "religious" go about cherry-picking you're referring to that group. This statistic nothing to do with being religious because not all people who believe in God are religious. Therefore anyone who uses this statistic does not refer to the "religious" as you've claimed.

I was talking about you. You're clearly religious. You exhibited a fine example of cherry-picking information.

How is it cherry picking? I can assert stuff all day. It means nothing unless backed by evidence.

Because you completely ignored all the rest of the information in this thread that was to the contrary. You didn't even acknowledge its existence, just saw the bit that backed your pre-existing bias and went with that. That's cherry-picking.
SNP1
Posts: 2,403
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
2/20/2015 9:19:17 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 2/20/2015 6:02:22 AM, drpiek wrote:
According to the poll, just over half of scientists (51%) believe in some form of deity or higher power; specifically, 33% of scientists say they believe in God, while 18% believe in a universal spirit or higher power. Give it time and the other half will too because science is just another path to God.

http://www.pewforum.org...

You know, except that when you look at the top scientists in countries like America, Britain, Sweden, etc., less than 10% of the top scientists believe in a god.

Considering that we are coming from a historical point where religion was ingrained in everything, it is not surprising for religion to still exist in scientists today, but it is expected for that to fall until religious scientists are an extreme minority.
#TheApatheticNihilistPartyofAmerica
#WarOnDDO
SNP1
Posts: 2,403
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
2/20/2015 9:20:46 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 2/20/2015 7:34:50 AM, YassineB wrote:
At 2/20/2015 6:02:22 AM, drpiek wrote:
According to the poll, just over half of scientists (51%) believe in some form of deity or higher power; specifically, 33% of scientists say they believe in God, while 18% believe in a universal spirit or higher power. Give it time and the other half will too because science is just another path to God.

http://www.pewforum.org...

- I'd like to see the same Poll done in a muslim Country. Believe me, it would look radically different.

A country where it is illegal to be an atheist? Yes, it would look a lot different for obvious reasons.
#TheApatheticNihilistPartyofAmerica
#WarOnDDO
Benshapiro
Posts: 3,932
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
2/20/2015 9:24:44 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 2/20/2015 9:19:01 AM, Graincruncher wrote:
At 2/20/2015 9:15:14 AM, Benshapiro wrote:
Hold up. "Religious" refers to a specific group of people. When you said that this is how the "religious" go about cherry-picking you're referring to that group. This statistic nothing to do with being religious because not all people who believe in God are religious. Therefore anyone who uses this statistic does not refer to the "religious" as you've claimed.

I was talking about you. You're clearly religious. You exhibited a fine example of cherry-picking information.

Ha! This perfectly illustrates my point. I'm, in fact, not religious. I'm a non-denominational theist. I'll address your second point below

How is it cherry picking? I can assert stuff all day. It means nothing unless backed by evidence.

Because you completely ignored all the rest of the information in this thread that was to the contrary. You didn't even acknowledge its existence, just saw the bit that backed your pre-existing bias and went with that. That's cherry-picking.

I'm responding to the title of the thread... If you're claiming that it's cherry-picked the onus is on you to provide the other studies.
DanneJeRusse
Posts: 12,576
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
2/20/2015 9:27:04 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 2/20/2015 7:34:50 AM, YassineB wrote:
At 2/20/2015 6:02:22 AM, drpiek wrote:
According to the poll, just over half of scientists (51%) believe in some form of deity or higher power; specifically, 33% of scientists say they believe in God, while 18% believe in a universal spirit or higher power. Give it time and the other half will too because science is just another path to God.

http://www.pewforum.org...

- I'd like to see the same Poll done in a muslim Country. Believe me, it would look radically different.

Is that because the couple of scientists there are Muslims?
Marrying a 6 year old and waiting until she reaches puberty and maturity before having consensual sex is better than walking up to
a stranger in a bar and proceeding to have relations with no valid proof of the intent of the person. Muhammad wins. ~ Fatihah
If they don't want to be killed then they have to subdue to the Islamic laws. - Uncung
Without God, you are lower than sh!t. ~ SpiritandTruth
Graincruncher
Posts: 2,799
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
2/20/2015 9:27:57 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 2/20/2015 9:24:44 AM, Benshapiro wrote:
Ha! This perfectly illustrates my point. I'm, in fact, not religious. I'm a non-denominational theist. I'll address your second point below

So you don't believe in the Christian god?

I'm responding to the title of the thread... If you're claiming that it's cherry-picked the onus is on you to provide the other studies.

They've been provided already, before you posted. The fact you aren't even aware of that is hardly something to be proud of.
UndeniableReality
Posts: 1,897
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
2/20/2015 9:29:21 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 2/20/2015 8:53:37 AM, Benshapiro wrote:
The majority of scientists believe in God. Good to know.

There's something called standard error... Statistically, 51% is not a majority.
YassineB
Posts: 1,003
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
2/20/2015 9:31:15 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 2/20/2015 9:20:46 AM, SNP1 wrote:
At 2/20/2015 7:34:50 AM, YassineB wrote:
At 2/20/2015 6:02:22 AM, drpiek wrote:
According to the poll, just over half of scientists (51%) believe in some form of deity or higher power; specifically, 33% of scientists say they believe in God, while 18% believe in a universal spirit or higher power. Give it time and the other half will too because science is just another path to God.

http://www.pewforum.org...

- I'd like to see the same Poll done in a muslim Country. Believe me, it would look radically different.

A country where it is illegal to be an atheist? Yes, it would look a lot different for obvious reasons.

- That's an ignorant generalisation. There are about 60 muslim countries in the world, & only one where Atheism is illegal. Plus, even in westernised muslim countries such as Turkey, Bosnia, Albania, the results will not change, I guarantee it.

- This phenomenon where Science is against Religion is more a western phenomenon, in other places it's much less present, especially in Islamic countries. & I am thinking: historical reasons maybe.
Current Debates In Voting Period:

- The Qur'an We Have Today is Not What Muhammad Dictated Verbatim. Vs. @Envisage:
http://www.debate.org...

- Drawing Contest. Vs. @purpleduck:
http://www.debate.org...

"It is perfectly permissible to vote on sources without reading them" bluesteel.
PolyCarp
Posts: 63
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
2/20/2015 9:31:25 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 2/20/2015 6:02:22 AM, drpiek wrote:
According to the poll, just over half of scientists (51%) believe in some form of deity or higher power; specifically, 33% of scientists say they believe in God, while 18% believe in a universal spirit or higher power. Give it time and the other half will too because science is just another path to God.

http://www.pewforum.org...

Okay, but what does that show exactly? That believing in science makes you believe in God? This is an argument from authority, I can imagine an "aether believer" saying that most scientists believed in aether 100 years ago, and the argument is fallacious for the exact same reason.
"Perhaps the atheist cannot find God for the same reason the thief cannot find a policeman"

--G.K Chesterton