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Gay-men and omnipotence

Ragnar
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2/22/2015 1:02:59 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
So some very common claims about God seem to contradict. All knowing, all powerful, and gay sex is against his will. It seems to me God logically cannot be all three (not that God claims to be, this is about claims made by the devote).

If all knowing, he knows all. If all knowing and all powerful, his will is everywhere at all times. If all knowing and all powerful and gay sex is against his will, than it seems impossible for gay sex to exist.

If any one of the three claims are removed, the other two can co-exist. Such as if not all knowing, than he just doesn't know what people are getting up to. If not all powerful his will can be rebelled against. Or gay sex is simply not against his will.

Now this isn't to say God likes gay sex, merely that if it is outright against God's will as many claim, than God is clearly not all powerful and all knowing.

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For reference, what got me thinking about this was a recent debate: http://www.debate.org...
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lannan13
Posts: 23,111
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2/22/2015 1:11:36 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 2/22/2015 1:02:59 PM, Ragnar wrote:
So some very common claims about God seem to contradict. All knowing, all powerful, and gay sex is against his will. It seems to me God logically cannot be all three (not that God claims to be, this is about claims made by the devote).

If all knowing, he knows all. If all knowing and all powerful, his will is everywhere at all times. If all knowing and all powerful and gay sex is against his will, than it seems impossible for gay sex to exist.

If any one of the three claims are removed, the other two can co-exist. Such as if not all knowing, than he just doesn't know what people are getting up to. If not all powerful his will can be rebelled against. Or gay sex is simply not against his will.

Now this isn't to say God likes gay sex, merely that if it is outright against God's will as many claim, than God is clearly not all powerful and all knowing.

---

For reference, what got me thinking about this was a recent debate: http://www.debate.org...

Unfortunately it's a mirage that the early church adopted that Gay Sex is immoral.

Now before we look at Genesis 2:21-24 and automatically condemn Gay Marriage let's take one more look at it. It states that Eve came from the rib of Adam so that the man shall leave his parents and find women. This doesn't mean that a man has to marry a women, but actually fallows Plato's theory of androgyne. Escentially it is that the man leaves his parents to go out and to look for their other half. Now this means that the person can look for a male or female. It matters not their sexuality as long as it they find their other half. This is a methaor throughout the Bible.

Now many Christians believe that men and women are meant to have sex and that anything else would be against God's will, but that is simply not so. Why's that you may ask? Well let's look further in the Book of Genesis and observe Lot and his wife. In Genesis 16 Lot's wife ask's him to find another wife to impregnate as she is barren. In Genesis 25, he marries Hagar and Katurah whom of which the Bible describes her as being concubine. Now what that means is that the person is polygamous, but they have a status lesser than that of a wife. So we can see that God permitted Lot to enter a Polygamous marriage with now 3 wives. The Bible shows here that it cannot be true about what Pro is saying in terms of Furtality as Lot maintains his marriage to his first wife even if she is infertile.

Sodom

Now let's observe Sodom and the acts of Sodomy.

They called to Lot, "Where are the men who came to you tonight? Bring them out to us so that we can have sex with them. Genesis 19:5

Look, I have two daughters who have never slept with a man. Let me bring them out to you, and you can do what you like with them. But don't do anything to these men, for they have come under the protection of my roof." Genesis 19:8

Now one immidately rushes to say, "Ha, there, that condems it," but once again that is incorrect. Sodomy was orginially a sexual act of anal and/or oral sex between two people. This happens between heterosexual couples on an everday basis. it's wasn't until the Mid Evil times that the Christian and Jewish communities used this to attack homosexual couples due to the Pagan acceptance of homosexuality during this time.

"Be not forgetful to entertain strangers: for thereby some have entertained angels unawares." [Heb. 13:2]

The Bible actually uses Lot's story to show that one must entertain guests and treat them well. That not doing so is a violation. Sodom is actually rementioned in the New Testiment in the Book of Ezekiel.

"Saith the Lord GOD...Behold, this was the iniquity of ... Sodom, pride, fulness of bread, and abundance of idleness ... neither did she strengthen the hand of the poor and needy. And they were haughty and committed abomination before me: therefore I took them away as I saw good". - Ezekiel 16:48-50

Now look closely and we can see that the abomination is idol worshipping and human sacrafice, not homosexual acts. The society of Sodom was known for its materialistic and uncharitable nature. There is a story in the BIble when a starving man is coated in honey only to be stung to death by bees.

Leviticus

Now this is the greatest part in the BIble that "condems" homosexuality to say that they must be stone to death. (Leviticus 20:13) What people don't know is that during this time there was a great number of Pagans living in the Palestine area. These Pagan Priests were called Kedoshim. What they would do in their practices is cross dress and take on the role of a female. They would even casterate themselves, but where it get's to the highest relivence is during the holy rites they would do anal sex. Leviticu's condeming this practice was not condeming homosexuality, but actually this Pagan religion. It was later misinterperated for the condeming of homosexuality
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If the sky's the limit then why do we have footprints on the Moon? I'm shooting my aspirations for the stars.

"If you are going through hell, keep going." "Sir Winston Churchill

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Ragnar
Posts: 1,658
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2/23/2015 12:17:41 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 2/22/2015 1:11:36 PM, lannan13 wrote:
Unfortunately it's a mirage that the early church adopted that Gay Sex is immoral. ...

That was a lot of good information, on context being overlooked. Thank you for your thoughts on the matter.
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lannan13
Posts: 23,111
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2/23/2015 1:03:54 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 2/23/2015 12:17:41 PM, Ragnar wrote:
At 2/22/2015 1:11:36 PM, lannan13 wrote:
Unfortunately it's a mirage that the early church adopted that Gay Sex is immoral. ...

That was a lot of good information, on context being overlooked. Thank you for your thoughts on the matter.

There are a ton of other things that Christians ignore. The book of Luke (though I can't remember the exact verse) states that Jesus had said that once the second covenant was made the first covenant is nullified. Meaning that Leviticus and the entire Old Testiment's condemnations are null and void by Jesus's own words.
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If the sky's the limit then why do we have footprints on the Moon? I'm shooting my aspirations for the stars.

"If you are going through hell, keep going." "Sir Winston Churchill

"No one can make you feel inferior without your consent." "Eleanor Roosevelt

Topics I want to debate. (http://tinyurl.com...)
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