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# Challenge to Non-Muslims...

 Posts: 2,908 Add as FriendChallenge to a DebateSend a Message 2/23/2015 1:50:34 PMPosted: 3 years agoObviously you believe the Quran is man made book... Today we find many mathimatical structures or patterns (if not hundreds or more..) in the Quran which we didnt know before... so we have 2 options that answers where these stuff came from -1) God/Allah as we muslims believe..2) Humans put these stuff3) The prophet which is absurd to say that.keep in mind that in our time we are using the decimal numeral system (base ten), which used by the muslims after approximately 200 years of demise of the Prophet and many years after the compilation of the Quran by Uthman (a companion)...here for examples:1) There are 114 Surahs/Chapters in the Quran. we divide it into 2 groups: repetetive nummerical values and non-repetetive nummerical values.repetetive numbers means group of numbers that if we add surah's number and its verses we get the same result. for example chapters 85 and 99 have same nummerical value 107 (chapter number + its number of verses), we summerize all repetitive nummerical values in the Quran and we get 7906.the rest (non-repetetive nummerical values) we add also and we have the sum 4885.the ratio between Reptitive and non-repetitive nummerical values is - 7906/4885 = 1.618. as you see its the Golden Ratio.some say its a coincidence and in my humble opinion its nonsense. others say humans put it in. if so you can give any evidence for that? by who when where? atleast they knew the number 1.618 at that time? i know greeks (or others) used it but what number they used or precisely they got it right to the digit 8?. (1.618)2) we dividing again into 2 groups - evens and odds. we adding each chapter with its number veres and if we get even number it goes to the group of even and vice versa.for example chapter 1 has 7 verses so - 1+7=8 --> to the group of evens.the sum of all the numbers of the evens is - 6236.the sum of all the numbers of the odds is - 6555.now we add of the chapters one by one (1+2+3...+114) and same for the verses.sum of the chapters is 6555.sum of the verses is 6236.we have the same results, so its pretty awesome. and from the series we have 57 odd and 57 even numbers.dont fart
 Posts: 13,644 Add as FriendChallenge to a DebateSend a Message 2/23/2015 2:26:32 PMPosted: 3 years agoAt 2/23/2015 1:50:34 PM, POPOO5560 wrote:Obviously you believe the Quran is man made book... Today we find many mathimatical structures or patterns (if not hundreds or more..) in the Quran which we didnt know before... so we have 2 options that answers where these stuff came from -1) God/Allah as we muslims believe..2) Humans put these stuff3) The prophet which is absurd to say that.keep in mind that in our time we are using the decimal numeral system (base ten), which used by the muslims after approximately 200 years of demise of the Prophet and many years after the compilation of the Quran by Uthman (a companion)...here for examples:1) There are 114 Surahs/Chapters in the Quran. we divide it into 2 groups: repetetive nummerical values and non-repetetive nummerical values.repetetive numbers means group of numbers that if we add surah's number and its verses we get the same result. for example chapters 85 and 99 have same nummerical value 107 (chapter number + its number of verses), we summerize all repetitive nummerical values in the Quran and we get 7906.the rest (non-repetetive nummerical values) we add also and we have the sum 4885.the ratio between Reptitive and non-repetitive nummerical values is - 7906/4885 = 1.618. as you see its the Golden Ratio.some say its a coincidence and in my humble opinion its nonsense. others say humans put it in. if so you can give any evidence for that? by who when where? atleast they knew the number 1.618 at that time? i know greeks (or others) used it but what number they used or precisely they got it right to the digit 8?. (1.618)2) we dividing again into 2 groups - evens and odds. we adding each chapter with its number veres and if we get even number it goes to the group of even and vice versa.for example chapter 1 has 7 verses so - 1+7=8 --> to the group of evens.the sum of all the numbers of the evens is - 6236.the sum of all the numbers of the odds is - 6555.now we add of the chapters one by one (1+2+3...+114) and same for the verses.sum of the chapters is 6555.sum of the verses is 6236.we have the same results, so its pretty awesome. and from the series we have 57 odd and 57 even numbers.Dude, we can take numbers from anything and make anything we want from them, but that doesn't mean squat. It's completely irrelevant to the horrors contained in the Quran.Marrying a 6 year old and waiting until she reaches puberty and maturity before having consensual sex is better than walking up to a stranger in a bar and proceeding to have relations with no valid proof of the intent of the person. Muhammad wins. ~ Fatihah If they don't want to be killed then they have to subdue to the Islamic laws. - Uncung There would be peace if you obeyed us.~Uncung Without God, you are lower than sh!t. ~ SpiritandTruth
 Posts: 2,908 Add as FriendChallenge to a DebateSend a Message 2/23/2015 3:23:31 PMPosted: 3 years agoAt 2/23/2015 2:26:32 PM, DanneJeRusse wrote:At 2/23/2015 1:50:34 PM, POPOO5560 wrote:Obviously you believe the Quran is man made book... Today we find many mathimatical structures or patterns (if not hundreds or more..) in the Quran which we didnt know before... so we have 2 options that answers where these stuff came from -1) God/Allah as we muslims believe..2) Humans put these stuff3) The prophet which is absurd to say that.keep in mind that in our time we are using the decimal numeral system (base ten), which used by the muslims after approximately 200 years of demise of the Prophet and many years after the compilation of the Quran by Uthman (a companion)...here for examples:1) There are 114 Surahs/Chapters in the Quran. we divide it into 2 groups: repetetive nummerical values and non-repetetive nummerical values.repetetive numbers means group of numbers that if we add surah's number and its verses we get the same result. for example chapters 85 and 99 have same nummerical value 107 (chapter number + its number of verses), we summerize all repetitive nummerical values in the Quran and we get 7906.the rest (non-repetetive nummerical values) we add also and we have the sum 4885.the ratio between Reptitive and non-repetitive nummerical values is - 7906/4885 = 1.618. as you see its the Golden Ratio.some say its a coincidence and in my humble opinion its nonsense. others say humans put it in. if so you can give any evidence for that? by who when where? atleast they knew the number 1.618 at that time? i know greeks (or others) used it but what number they used or precisely they got it right to the digit 8?. (1.618)2) we dividing again into 2 groups - evens and odds. we adding each chapter with its number veres and if we get even number it goes to the group of even and vice versa.for example chapter 1 has 7 verses so - 1+7=8 --> to the group of evens.the sum of all the numbers of the evens is - 6236.the sum of all the numbers of the odds is - 6555.now we add of the chapters one by one (1+2+3...+114) and same for the verses.sum of the chapters is 6555.sum of the verses is 6236.we have the same results, so its pretty awesome. and from the series we have 57 odd and 57 even numbers.Dude, we can take numbers from anything and make anything we want from them, but that doesn't mean squat. It's completely irrelevant to the horrors contained in the Quran.So how the Author of the Quran knew about 1.618?dont fart
 Posts: 2,908 Add as FriendChallenge to a DebateSend a Message 2/23/2015 3:41:09 PMPosted: 3 years agoAt 2/23/2015 3:23:31 PM, POPOO5560 wrote:At 2/23/2015 2:26:32 PM, DanneJeRusse wrote:if we look at chapter 16 verse 18 (16:18) it says:And if you should count the favors of Allah , you could not enumerate them. Indeed, Allah is Forgiving and Merciful.how long the Golden ratio goes? limitless (1.618...) what the verse is saying?And if you should count the favors of Allah , you could not enumerate them. Indeed, Allah is Forgiving and Merciful.Again! boom. the author knows the number 1.618 and this verse implying that its limitless. now what you have to do is show if they knew the 1.618 (to digit 8) and secondly if they had the idea that this number is limitless. if you do so, it would be garbage and we move on. if you cant show that, its from God because you dont have any other source to know such information... go ahead.dont fart
 Posts: 13,644 Add as FriendChallenge to a DebateSend a Message 2/23/2015 3:45:46 PMPosted: 3 years agoAt 2/23/2015 3:23:31 PM, POPOO5560 wrote:At 2/23/2015 2:26:32 PM, DanneJeRusse wrote:At 2/23/2015 1:50:34 PM, POPOO5560 wrote:Obviously you believe the Quran is man made book... Today we find many mathimatical structures or patterns (if not hundreds or more..) in the Quran which we didnt know before... so we have 2 options that answers where these stuff came from -1) God/Allah as we muslims believe..2) Humans put these stuff3) The prophet which is absurd to say that.keep in mind that in our time we are using the decimal numeral system (base ten), which used by the muslims after approximately 200 years of demise of the Prophet and many years after the compilation of the Quran by Uthman (a companion)...here for examples:1) There are 114 Surahs/Chapters in the Quran. we divide it into 2 groups: repetetive nummerical values and non-repetetive nummerical values.repetetive numbers means group of numbers that if we add surah's number and its verses we get the same result. for example chapters 85 and 99 have same nummerical value 107 (chapter number + its number of verses), we summerize all repetitive nummerical values in the Quran and we get 7906.the rest (non-repetetive nummerical values) we add also and we have the sum 4885.the ratio between Reptitive and non-repetitive nummerical values is - 7906/4885 = 1.618. as you see its the Golden Ratio.some say its a coincidence and in my humble opinion its nonsense. others say humans put it in. if so you can give any evidence for that? by who when where? atleast they knew the number 1.618 at that time? i know greeks (or others) used it but what number they used or precisely they got it right to the digit 8?. (1.618)2) we dividing again into 2 groups - evens and odds. we adding each chapter with its number veres and if we get even number it goes to the group of even and vice versa.for example chapter 1 has 7 verses so - 1+7=8 --> to the group of evens.the sum of all the numbers of the evens is - 6236.the sum of all the numbers of the odds is - 6555.now we add of the chapters one by one (1+2+3...+114) and same for the verses.sum of the chapters is 6555.sum of the verses is 6236.we have the same results, so its pretty awesome. and from the series we have 57 odd and 57 even numbers.Dude, we can take numbers from anything and make anything we want from them, but that doesn't mean squat. It's completely irrelevant to the horrors contained in the Quran.So how the Author of the Quran knew about 1.618?He probably didn't know and had no reason to because it's irrelevant.Marrying a 6 year old and waiting until she reaches puberty and maturity before having consensual sex is better than walking up to a stranger in a bar and proceeding to have relations with no valid proof of the intent of the person. Muhammad wins. ~ Fatihah If they don't want to be killed then they have to subdue to the Islamic laws. - Uncung There would be peace if you obeyed us.~Uncung Without God, you are lower than sh!t. ~ SpiritandTruth
 Posts: 2,908 Add as FriendChallenge to a DebateSend a Message 2/23/2015 3:59:16 PMPosted: 3 years agoAt 2/23/2015 3:45:46 PM, DanneJeRusse wrote:At 2/23/2015 3:23:31 PM, POPOO5560 wrote:At 2/23/2015 2:26:32 PM, DanneJeRusse wrote:At 2/23/2015 1:50:34 PM, POPOO5560 wrote:Obviously you believe the Quran is man made book... Today we find many mathimatical structures or patterns (if not hundreds or more..) in the Quran which we didnt know before... so we have 2 options that answers where these stuff came from -1) God/Allah as we muslims believe..2) Humans put these stuff3) The prophet which is absurd to say that.keep in mind that in our time we are using the decimal numeral system (base ten), which used by the muslims after approximately 200 years of demise of the Prophet and many years after the compilation of the Quran by Uthman (a companion)...here for examples:1) There are 114 Surahs/Chapters in the Quran. we divide it into 2 groups: repetetive nummerical values and non-repetetive nummerical values.repetetive numbers means group of numbers that if we add surah's number and its verses we get the same result. for example chapters 85 and 99 have same nummerical value 107 (chapter number + its number of verses), we summerize all repetitive nummerical values in the Quran and we get 7906.the rest (non-repetetive nummerical values) we add also and we have the sum 4885.the ratio between Reptitive and non-repetitive nummerical values is - 7906/4885 = 1.618. as you see its the Golden Ratio.some say its a coincidence and in my humble opinion its nonsense. others say humans put it in. if so you can give any evidence for that? by who when where? atleast they knew the number 1.618 at that time? i know greeks (or others) used it but what number they used or precisely they got it right to the digit 8?. (1.618)2) we dividing again into 2 groups - evens and odds. we adding each chapter with its number veres and if we get even number it goes to the group of even and vice versa.for example chapter 1 has 7 verses so - 1+7=8 --> to the group of evens.the sum of all the numbers of the evens is - 6236.the sum of all the numbers of the odds is - 6555.now we add of the chapters one by one (1+2+3...+114) and same for the verses.sum of the chapters is 6555.sum of the verses is 6236.we have the same results, so its pretty awesome. and from the series we have 57 odd and 57 even numbers.Dude, we can take numbers from anything and make anything we want from them, but that doesn't mean squat. It's completely irrelevant to the horrors contained in the Quran.So how the Author of the Quran knew about 1.618?He probably didn't know and had no reason to because it's irrelevant.ok you cant figure out how the author knew it, so give others a chance instead of writing things beside the point.dont fart
 Posts: 2,908 Add as FriendChallenge to a DebateSend a Message 2/23/2015 5:17:31 PMPosted: 3 years agooh come on only idiots here?dont fart
 Posts: 6,033 Add as FriendChallenge to a DebateSend a Message 2/23/2015 5:44:45 PMPosted: 3 years agoAt 2/23/2015 1:50:34 PM, POPOO5560 wrote:we have the same results, so its pretty awesome. and from the series we have 57 odd and 57 even numbers.Hi Popoo,I think you've made an argument that the beauty you've discovered is so improbable that it must speak to truth.But that presupposes you've proven it's improbable, and still begs the question: how much beauty is truthful?The proof of improbability isn't in the beauty. It's actually in proving whether the beauty were deliberate or spontaneous, and exhaustively looking for similar beauty in other books -- especially other literature written in Arabic. As you surely know, Muhammad himself did not write the Q'uran -- rather it had been compiled and transcribed from oral recitation and written fragments by scribes working at the behest of the Caliph Abu Bakr, notably including the scribe Zayd ibn Thabit, who later supervised a panel to prepare a standard copy.Knowing the Arab love of mathematics and poetry, and their mystification of astrology, and recognising the need to standardise, I don't think it inconceivable that Zayd or perhaps a poetically-minded scribe working for Zayd, may have deliberately introduced this structure. As you know, the non-standard copies that had proliferated in different Arabic dialects were subsequently ordered destroyed, and so we don't know whether any of them originally had the structure we now see in the standard Qu'ran. The deliberate revisionist destruction of your own religious history has seen to that.So now the burden of proof resides with you. You must show, not the inexplicable, but evidence that ordinary processes produced extraordinary results. So you must yourself eliminate ordinary sources of beauty, not by dogma but by evidence, and so far you haven't done that.And then you must make some argument from beauty to truth, and that's a harder step still.But all that challenge doesn't reside with unbelievers, but with you.I hope that may help. :)
 Posts: 3,880 Add as FriendChallenge to a DebateSend a Message 2/23/2015 5:46:00 PMPosted: 3 years agoAt 2/23/2015 1:50:34 PM, POPOO5560 wrote:Obviously you believe the Quran is man made book... Today we find many mathimatical structures or patterns (if not hundreds or more..) in the Quran which we didnt know before... so we have 2 options that answers where these stuff came from -1) God/Allah as we muslims believe..2) Humans put these stuff3) The prophet which is absurd to say that.keep in mind that in our time we are using the decimal numeral system (base ten), which used by the muslims after approximately 200 years of demise of the Prophet and many years after the compilation of the Quran by Uthman (a companion)...here for examples:1) There are 114 Surahs/Chapters in the Quran. we divide it into 2 groups: repetetive nummerical values and non-repetetive nummerical values.repetetive numbers means group of numbers that if we add surah's number and its verses we get the same result. for example chapters 85 and 99 have same nummerical value 107 (chapter number + its number of verses), we summerize all repetitive nummerical values in the Quran and we get 7906.the rest (non-repetetive nummerical values) we add also and we have the sum 4885.the ratio between Reptitive and non-repetitive nummerical values is - 7906/4885 = 1.618. as you see its the Golden Ratio.some say its a coincidence and in my humble opinion its nonsense. others say humans put it in. if so you can give any evidence for that? by who when where? atleast they knew the number 1.618 at that time? i know greeks (or others) used it but what number they used or precisely they got it right to the digit 8?. (1.618)2) we dividing again into 2 groups - evens and odds. we adding each chapter with its number veres and if we get even number it goes to the group of even and vice versa.for example chapter 1 has 7 verses so - 1+7=8 --> to the group of evens.the sum of all the numbers of the evens is - 6236.the sum of all the numbers of the odds is - 6555.now we add of the chapters one by one (1+2+3...+114) and same for the verses.sum of the chapters is 6555.sum of the verses is 6236.we have the same results, so its pretty awesome. and from the series we have 57 odd and 57 even numbers.Also, the value of the golden ratio is:1. An irrational number, thus cannot be expressed as a fraction2. Has a value of ~ 1.618033 [http://en.wikipedia.org...]Furthermore, you quote the fraction of: 7906/4885 which = 1.618423However, fractions of 7905/4885 (1.618219), 7904/4885 (1.618014) and even 7903/4885 (1.617810) are closer to the golden ratio, so we already have a spread of values which would elicit cognitive bias.Thus, if you had 7904 repetitive sum you would me making this exact same argument, which is absurd.Terrible argument....
 Posts: 9,723 Add as FriendChallenge to a DebateSend a Message 2/23/2015 6:11:14 PMPosted: 3 years agoAt 2/23/2015 1:50:34 PM, POPOO5560 wrote:Obviously you believe the Quran is man made book... Today we find many mathimatical structures or patterns (if not hundreds or more..) in the Quran which we didnt know before... so we have 2 options that answers where these stuff came from -1) God/Allah as we muslims believe..2) Humans put these stuff3) The prophet which is absurd to say that.keep in mind that in our time we are using the decimal numeral system (base ten), which used by the muslims after approximately 200 years of demise of the Prophet and many years after the compilation of the Quran by Uthman (a companion)...here for examples:1) There are 114 Surahs/Chapters in the Quran. we divide it into 2 groups: repetetive nummerical values and non-repetetive nummerical values.repetetive numbers means group of numbers that if we add surah's number and its verses we get the same result. for example chapters 85 and 99 have same nummerical value 107 (chapter number + its number of verses), we summerize all repetitive nummerical values in the Quran and we get 7906.the rest (non-repetetive nummerical values) we add also and we have the sum 4885.the ratio between Reptitive and non-repetitive nummerical values is - 7906/4885 = 1.618. as you see its the Golden Ratio.some say its a coincidence and in my humble opinion its nonsense. others say humans put it in. if so you can give any evidence for that? by who when where? atleast they knew the number 1.618 at that time? i know greeks (or others) used it but what number they used or precisely they got it right to the digit 8?. (1.618)2) we dividing again into 2 groups - evens and odds. we adding each chapter with its number veres and if we get even number it goes to the group of even and vice versa.for example chapter 1 has 7 verses so - 1+7=8 --> to the group of evens.the sum of all the numbers of the evens is - 6236.the sum of all the numbers of the odds is - 6555.now we add of the chapters one by one (1+2+3...+114) and same for the verses.sum of the chapters is 6555.sum of the verses is 6236.we have the same results, so its pretty awesome. and from the series we have 57 odd and 57 even numbers.Your sig says it all.Fungus: "Here we have a wasp and spider trapped in amber. No visible evolutionary changes". Reality: Both spider and wasp are extinct. Sub-species of same wasp parasitizes spider eggs.