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Ask a Trinitarian

philochristos
Posts: 2,614
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2/23/2015 1:51:24 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
I'm a Trinitarian. Grill me!
"Not to know of what things one should demand demonstration, and of what one should not, argues want of education." ~Aristotle

"It is the mark of an educated mind to be able to entertain a thought without accepting it." ~Aristotle
POPOO5560
Posts: 2,487
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2/23/2015 2:03:15 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 2/23/2015 1:51:24 PM, philochristos wrote:
I'm a Trinitarian. Grill me!

1) why there is no mentioning of the Trinity in the Bible
2) why always "the Father" is described as the Only true God specifically and the others (Jesus and the Holy ghost) not?
3) why Jesus never taught he was God/part of it or some stuff relating to the Trinity?
4) if he didnt say nothing about the Trinity to his disciples or about himself to be a God how you figure that stuff? 3 years and couldnt say it in a clear manner? what he was playing hide and seek expecting people to find out that he was a God? really?
Never fart near dog
philochristos
Posts: 2,614
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2/23/2015 2:40:52 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 2/23/2015 2:03:15 PM, POPOO5560 wrote:
At 2/23/2015 1:51:24 PM, philochristos wrote:
I'm a Trinitarian. Grill me!

1) why there is no mentioning of the Trinity in the Bible

The Bible contains all the claims of the Trinity--that there is only one God, that the Father is God, the Son is God, and the Holy Spirit is God, and that the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit are distinct persons. What the formal doctrine of the Trinity accomplished was giving a philosophical framework with which to understand these various Biblical principles and how they all fit together logically. The Bible is simply not a deeply philosophical book. The Bible makes it clear that people have immaterial souls, for example, but it doesn't attempt to resolve the interaction problem. The Bible also says that dead people who have decomposed will rise from the dead, but it doesn't explain the problem of personal identity.

2) why always "the Father" is described as the Only true God specifically and the others (Jesus and the Holy ghost) not?

I only know of one place that explicitly says the Father is the only true God, and that is John 17:3. One might just as readily question why the same statement is not made in any other book. But as far as arriving at that conclusion, as long as the Bible says there is only one true God (which is does in many places), then all that's required to arrive at the conclusion that Jesus and the Holy Spirit are also the only true God is some statement or argument from the Bible showing that both Jesus and the Holy Spirit are God. If Jesus is God, and if there's only one true God, then Jesus is the only true God. It is easier to say why somebody DOES say something than why they do NOT say something. If some doctrine is a necessary part of Christianity, then we ought to be able to glean that doctrine from scripture. In the case of the Trinity, that doctrine can be gleaned from scripture even without the explicit statement that "Jesus is the only true God" or "The Holy Spirit is the only true God," so it was not necessary for the scriptures to make those explicit statements.

3) why Jesus never taught he was God/part of it or some stuff relating to the Trinity?

This question commits the fallacy of the complex question because it facts not in evidence, namely that in fact Jesus never taught he was God. You've assumed, but haven't shown, that that is the case. In fact, Jesus did teach that he is God, and he did so in various ways.

4) if he didnt say nothing about the Trinity to his disciples or about himself to be a God how you figure that stuff? 3 years and couldnt say it in a clear manner? what he was playing hide and seek expecting people to find out that he was a God? really?

There was a point in Jesus' ministry, after he had gone about teaching in parables about the kingdom of God and healing the sick that he sat down with his disciples and asked them, "Who do people say that I am?" The disciples then went on to tell Jesus the various things people had been saying about him. Some thought he was John the Baptist, some that he was Elijah, and some that he was an old prophet risen from the dead. Then Jesus asked who they thought he was, and Peter confessed that he was the Christ. Clearly, up to that point, Jesus had no made it clear to the people that he was the messiah. He did not go around saying, "I am the messiah." But even Muslims agree that Jesus was Christ. So surely you can see that Jesus' reluctance to go around saying things like "I am the Christ" or "I am God" does not amount to an argument against Jesus being those things.

Jesus was a prophet, and like many of the prophets before him, he conveyed his message not only in words, but in actions. Rather than going around claiming to be the messiah, Jesus behaved in such a way that it would lead discerning people to believe that he was. When the disciples of John the Baptist asked him if he was the chosen one, he pointed to his actions rather than give an explicit answer.

Jesus did not intend for everybody to understand him or the significance of his ministry. In fact, on one occasion when the disciples asked him why he spoken in parables, Jesus said it was so people wouldn't understand him. John records an incident with the Jews in which the Jews were exasperated with Jesus because he had not made his identity clear. They said, "How long will You keep us in suspense? If You are the Christ, tell us plainly." Even on this occasion, Jesus didn't tell them explicitly that he was the messiah. Instead, he against pointed to his actions. Then he told them the reason they didn't believe is because they were not his sheep. So only his sheep could discern his true identity which is why when Jesus asked his disciples who they thought he was, Peter said, "You are the Christ." And Jesus said, "Flesh and blood did not reveal this to you, but my Father in heaven."

Jesus also said that after he left, the Holy Spirit would continue to teach them. Consequently, we have more affirmation of Jesus' identity (including his deity) in the new testament documents outside of the gospels.
"Not to know of what things one should demand demonstration, and of what one should not, argues want of education." ~Aristotle

"It is the mark of an educated mind to be able to entertain a thought without accepting it." ~Aristotle
philochristos
Posts: 2,614
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2/23/2015 6:47:50 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
This thread is not getting any love.
"Not to know of what things one should demand demonstration, and of what one should not, argues want of education." ~Aristotle

"It is the mark of an educated mind to be able to entertain a thought without accepting it." ~Aristotle
Rant
Posts: 1,674
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2/23/2015 9:40:20 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
The people on this forum are going to jump right into Jacobs troubles with both feet and loving it , and a few will repent and get their heads taken off and the rest will take the mark and go to their fate. the delusion is in full force on this forum. Enjoy
philochristos
Posts: 2,614
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2/24/2015 12:31:46 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
Last call. Going once. . . going twice. . .
"Not to know of what things one should demand demonstration, and of what one should not, argues want of education." ~Aristotle

"It is the mark of an educated mind to be able to entertain a thought without accepting it." ~Aristotle
shaddamcorrinoIV
Posts: 106
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12/1/2015 2:31:13 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
I quit believing in the trinity because of the following argument:

1) God cannot die. 1 Timothy 6:16 who only hath immortality, dwelling in light unapproachable; whom no man hath seen, nor can see: to whom be honor and power eternal. Amen.

2) Jesus died on the cross: When Jesus had received the sour wine, he said, "It is finished," and he bowed his head and gave up his spirit.

3) According to Trintarians: Jesus is God: We believe (I believe) in one God, the Father Almighty, maker of heaven and earth, and of all things visible and invisible. And in one Lord Jesus Christ, the only begotten Son of God, and born of the Father before all ages. (God of God) light of light, true God of true God. Begotten not made, consubstantial to the Father, by whom all things were made. Who for us men and for our salvation came down from heaven. And was incarnate of the Holy Ghost and of the Virgin Mary and was made man; was crucified also for us under Pontius Pilate, suffered and was buried; and the third day rose again according to the Scriptures. And ascended into heaven, sits at the right hand of the Father, and shall come again with glory to judge the living and the dead, of whose Kingdom there shall be no end. And (I believe) in the Holy Ghost, the Lord and Giver of life, who proceeds from the Father (and the Son), who together with the Father and the Son is to be adored and glorified, who spoke by the Prophets. And one holy, catholic, and apostolic Church. We confess (I confess) one baptism for the remission of sins. And we look for (I look for) the resurrection of the dead and the life of the world to come. Amen. (Catholic Encyclopedia.)

4) According to the logic of the Nicene creed God and Jesus must have died on the cross together and that is impossible since as stated above, God cannot die,

Therefore, the claim that Jesus is God is false.
tstor
Posts: 1,467
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12/1/2015 9:46:23 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 2/23/2015 1:51:24 PM, philochristos wrote:
I'm a Trinitarian. Grill me!
How do you explain the following verses?:

John 14:28 - "You heard me say, 'I am going away and I am coming back to you.' If you loved me, you would be glad that I am going to the Father, for the Father is greater than I."

John 17:3 - Now this is eternal life: that they know you, the only true God, and Jesus Christ, whom you have sent.

John 20:17 - Jesus said, "Do not hold on to me, for I have not yet ascended to the Father. Go instead to my brothers and tell them, 'I am ascending to my Father and your Father, to my God and your God.'"

2 Corinthians 1:3
- Praise be to the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, the Father of compassion and the God of all comfort,

1 Corinthians 8:6
- yet for us there is but one God, the Father, from whom all things came and for whom we live; and there is but one Lord, Jesus Christ, through whom all things came and through whom we live.

1 Corinthians 11:3 - "But I want you to realize that the head of every man is Christ, and the head of the woman is man, and the head of Christ is God."

All verses are NIV renditions.
"The afternoon came down as imperceptibly as age comes to a happy man. A little gold entered into the sunlight. The bay became bluer and dimpled with shore-wind ripples. Those lonely fishermen who believe that the fish bite at high tide left their rocks, and their places were taken by others, who were convinced that the fish bite at low tide." (John Steinbeck; Tortilla Flat, 1935)