Total Posts:30|Showing Posts:1-30
Jump to topic:

The real reason I believe in God

drpiek
Posts: 589
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
2/24/2015 7:21:06 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
For many years I was agnostic. My life had gone very well and believing that I was the entire reason for that was causing me to become a bit conceited. I then though of all the ways it could have gone wrong yet, it did not. The reason i believe in god is because doing so allows me to be humble and know that I could not have done it without the grace of god.
JJ50
Posts: 2,144
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
2/24/2015 7:38:17 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
The real reason I am agnostic is because when I was a 'born again' believer as a young person it was not a nice experience, and I was happy to kick it all into touch when the doubts became too overwhelming.

As for humility, whilst one shouldn't be too arrogant, I don't see any point in being too humble either!
Envisage
Posts: 3,646
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
2/24/2015 7:40:36 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 2/24/2015 7:21:06 AM, drpiek wrote:
For many years I was agnostic. My life had gone very well and believing that I was the entire reason for that was causing me to become a bit conceited. I then though of all the ways it could have gone wrong yet, it did not. The reason i believe in god is because doing so allows me to be humble and know that I could not have done it without the grace of god.

You don't need God to be humble. Look at me, I am the humblest man in the world, and that is a fact.
dee-em
Posts: 6,446
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
2/24/2015 8:30:15 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 2/24/2015 7:21:06 AM, drpiek wrote:
For many years I was agnostic. My life had gone very well and believing that I was the entire reason for that was causing me to become a bit conceited. I then though of all the ways it could have gone wrong yet, it did not. The reason i believe in god is because doing so allows me to be humble and know that I could not have done it without the grace of god.

So the conclusion must be that for those who do experience some hardship in their lives, there must be no god? The hardship would have destroyed any possibility of conceit (so already humble) and they certainly couldn't claim to have done it with help since it went wrong (so no grace of god). Correct?
JJ50
Posts: 2,144
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
2/24/2015 8:47:58 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 2/24/2015 8:30:15 AM, dee-em wrote:
At 2/24/2015 7:21:06 AM, drpiek wrote:
For many years I was agnostic. My life had gone very well and believing that I was the entire reason for that was causing me to become a bit conceited. I then though of all the ways it could have gone wrong yet, it did not. The reason i believe in god is because doing so allows me to be humble and know that I could not have done it without the grace of god.

So the conclusion must be that for those who do experience some hardship in their lives, there must be no god? The hardship would have destroyed any possibility of conceit (so already humble) and they certainly couldn't claim to have done it with help since it went wrong (so no grace of god). Correct?

The only hardship I experienced as a young person was religion!
drpiek
Posts: 589
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
2/24/2015 8:57:49 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 2/24/2015 8:30:15 AM, dee-em wrote:
At 2/24/2015 7:21:06 AM, drpiek wrote:
For many years I was agnostic. My life had gone very well and believing that I was the entire reason for that was causing me to become a bit conceited. I then though of all the ways it could have gone wrong yet, it did not. The reason i believe in god is because doing so allows me to be humble and know that I could not have done it without the grace of god.

So the conclusion must be that for those who do experience some hardship in their lives, there must be no god? The hardship would have destroyed any possibility of conceit (so already humble) and they certainly couldn't claim to have done it with help since it went wrong (so no grace of god). Correct?

I don't know I cannot speak for them. That said it does seem like that is the way many atheists think. There thinking usually seems to focus on that they did not deserve those hardships so either there is no god, or god is no good.
drpiek
Posts: 589
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
2/24/2015 9:00:25 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 2/24/2015 8:47:58 AM, JJ50 wrote:
At 2/24/2015 8:30:15 AM, dee-em wrote:
At 2/24/2015 7:21:06 AM, drpiek wrote:
For many years I was agnostic. My life had gone very well and believing that I was the entire reason for that was causing me to become a bit conceited. I then though of all the ways it could have gone wrong yet, it did not. The reason i believe in god is because doing so allows me to be humble and know that I could not have done it without the grace of god.

So the conclusion must be that for those who do experience some hardship in their lives, there must be no god? The hardship would have destroyed any possibility of conceit (so already humble) and they certainly couldn't claim to have done it with help since it went wrong (so no grace of god). Correct?

The only hardship I experienced as a young person was religion!

I agree, that's why I am not religious, but as they say don't throw the baby out with the bath water. Ditch religion love god.
Harikrish
Posts: 11,005
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
2/24/2015 11:03:32 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 2/24/2015 7:21:06 AM, drpiek wrote:
For many years I was agnostic. My life had gone very well and believing that I was the entire reason for that was causing me to become a bit conceited. I then though of all the ways it could have gone wrong yet, it did not. The reason i believe in god is because doing so allows me to be humble and know that I could not have done it without the grace of god.

It would be more practical to share your good grace and give to charity where the need exists. Being humble before God doesn't cost you anything. You just took the cheap way out.
JJ50
Posts: 2,144
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
2/24/2015 11:07:06 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 2/24/2015 9:00:25 AM, drpiek wrote:
At 2/24/2015 8:47:58 AM, JJ50 wrote:
At 2/24/2015 8:30:15 AM, dee-em wrote:
At 2/24/2015 7:21:06 AM, drpiek wrote:
For many years I was agnostic. My life had gone very well and believing that I was the entire reason for that was causing me to become a bit conceited. I then though of all the ways it could have gone wrong yet, it did not. The reason i believe in god is because doing so allows me to be humble and know that I could not have done it without the grace of god.

So the conclusion must be that for those who do experience some hardship in their lives, there must be no god? The hardship would have destroyed any possibility of conceit (so already humble) and they certainly couldn't claim to have done it with help since it went wrong (so no grace of god). Correct?

The only hardship I experienced as a young person was religion!

I agree, that's why I am not religious, but as they say don't throw the baby out with the bath water. Ditch religion love god.

What is there to love about the ghastly deity portrayed in the Bible?
drpiek
Posts: 589
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
2/24/2015 11:47:24 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 2/24/2015 11:03:32 AM, Harikrish wrote:
At 2/24/2015 7:21:06 AM, drpiek wrote:
For many years I was agnostic. My life had gone very well and believing that I was the entire reason for that was causing me to become a bit conceited. I then though of all the ways it could have gone wrong yet, it did not. The reason i believe in god is because doing so allows me to be humble and know that I could not have done it without the grace of god.

It would be more practical to share your good grace and give to charity where the need exists. Being humble before God doesn't cost you anything. You just took the cheap way out.

You make many assumptions. I give in many ways.
drpiek
Posts: 589
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
2/24/2015 11:50:38 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 2/24/2015 11:07:06 AM, JJ50 wrote:
At 2/24/2015 9:00:25 AM, drpiek wrote:
At 2/24/2015 8:47:58 AM, JJ50 wrote:
At 2/24/2015 8:30:15 AM, dee-em wrote:
At 2/24/2015 7:21:06 AM, drpiek wrote:
For many years I was agnostic. My life had gone very well and believing that I was the entire reason for that was causing me to become a bit conceited. I then though of all the ways it could have gone wrong yet, it did not. The reason i believe in god is because doing so allows me to be humble and know that I could not have done it without the grace of god.

So the conclusion must be that for those who do experience some hardship in their lives, there must be no god? The hardship would have destroyed any possibility of conceit (so already humble) and they certainly couldn't claim to have done it with help since it went wrong (so no grace of god). Correct?

The only hardship I experienced as a young person was religion!

I agree, that's why I am not religious, but as they say don't throw the baby out with the bath water. Ditch religion love god.

What is there to love about the ghastly deity portrayed in the Bible?

I did not say anything about the bible.
Skepticalone
Posts: 6,093
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
2/24/2015 12:36:49 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 2/24/2015 7:21:06 AM, drpiek wrote:
For many years I was agnostic. My life had gone very well and believing that I was the entire reason for that was causing me to become a bit conceited. I then though of all the ways it could have gone wrong yet, it did not. The reason i believe in god is because doing so allows me to be humble and know that I could not have done it without the grace of god.

How do you explain devout believers having rough lives? This seems to be a fairly weak reason to believe in my estimation.
This thread is like eavesdropping on a conversation in a mental asylum. - Bulproof

You can call your invisible friends whatever you like. - Desmac

What the hell kind of coked up sideshow has this thread turned into. - Casten
debate_power
Posts: 726
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
2/24/2015 1:37:22 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 2/24/2015 7:21:06 AM, drpiek wrote:
For many years I was agnostic. My life had gone very well and believing that I was the entire reason for that was causing me to become a bit conceited. I then though of all the ways it could have gone wrong yet, it did not. The reason i believe in god is because doing so allows me to be humble and know that I could not have done it without the grace of god.

How do you know that you required an infinitely powerful being to accomplish such a mundane task?
You can call me Mark if you like.
debate_power
Posts: 726
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
2/24/2015 1:38:14 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 2/24/2015 7:40:36 AM, Envisage wrote:
At 2/24/2015 7:21:06 AM, drpiek wrote:
For many years I was agnostic. My life had gone very well and believing that I was the entire reason for that was causing me to become a bit conceited. I then though of all the ways it could have gone wrong yet, it did not. The reason i believe in god is because doing so allows me to be humble and know that I could not have done it without the grace of god.

You don't need God to be humble. Look at me, I am the humblest man in the world, and that is a fact.

You also must be the most honest man in the world.
You can call me Mark if you like.
drpiek
Posts: 589
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
2/24/2015 2:18:48 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 2/24/2015 12:36:49 PM, Skepticalone wrote:
At 2/24/2015 7:21:06 AM, drpiek wrote:
For many years I was agnostic. My life had gone very well and believing that I was the entire reason for that was causing me to become a bit conceited. I then though of all the ways it could have gone wrong yet, it did not. The reason i believe in god is because doing so allows me to be humble and know that I could not have done it without the grace of god.

How do you explain devout believers having rough lives? This seems to be a fairly weak reason to believe in my estimation.

Some seem to choose rough lives because there religion glorifies it, others well I don't know.
drpiek
Posts: 589
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
2/24/2015 2:20:54 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 2/24/2015 1:37:22 PM, debate_power wrote:
At 2/24/2015 7:21:06 AM, drpiek wrote:
For many years I was agnostic. My life had gone very well and believing that I was the entire reason for that was causing me to become a bit conceited. I then though of all the ways it could have gone wrong yet, it did not. The reason i believe in god is because doing so allows me to be humble and know that I could not have done it without the grace of god.

How do you know that you required an infinitely powerful being to accomplish such a mundane task?

I do not see it as mundane.
debate_power
Posts: 726
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
2/24/2015 2:35:03 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 2/24/2015 2:20:54 PM, drpiek wrote:
At 2/24/2015 1:37:22 PM, debate_power wrote:
At 2/24/2015 7:21:06 AM, drpiek wrote:
For many years I was agnostic. My life had gone very well and believing that I was the entire reason for that was causing me to become a bit conceited. I then though of all the ways it could have gone wrong yet, it did not. The reason i believe in god is because doing so allows me to be humble and know that I could not have done it without the grace of god.

How do you know that you required an infinitely powerful being to accomplish such a mundane task?

I do not see it as mundane.

Why do you think it requires an all-powerful being? That's one hell of an unfounded assumption, don't you think?
You can call me Mark if you like.
UndeniableReality
Posts: 1,897
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
2/24/2015 2:45:02 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 2/24/2015 7:21:06 AM, drpiek wrote:
For many years I was agnostic. My life had gone very well and believing that I was the entire reason for that was causing me to become a bit conceited. I then though of all the ways it could have gone wrong yet, it did not. The reason i believe in god is because doing so allows me to be humble and know that I could not have done it without the grace of god.

You couldn't have done it without all the people in your life either. You were never the entire reason for your success.
Skepticalone
Posts: 6,093
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
2/24/2015 4:37:06 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 2/24/2015 2:18:48 PM, drpiek wrote:
At 2/24/2015 12:36:49 PM, Skepticalone wrote:
At 2/24/2015 7:21:06 AM, drpiek wrote:
For many years I was agnostic. My life had gone very well and believing that I was the entire reason for that was causing me to become a bit conceited. I then though of all the ways it could have gone wrong yet, it did not. The reason i believe in god is because doing so allows me to be humble and know that I could not have done it without the grace of god.

How do you explain devout believers having rough lives? This seems to be a fairly weak reason to believe in my estimation.

Some seem to choose rough lives because there religion glorifies it, others well I don't know.

That's an honest answer.
This thread is like eavesdropping on a conversation in a mental asylum. - Bulproof

You can call your invisible friends whatever you like. - Desmac

What the hell kind of coked up sideshow has this thread turned into. - Casten
Skepticalone
Posts: 6,093
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
2/24/2015 4:51:46 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 2/24/2015 7:40:36 AM, Envisage wrote:
At 2/24/2015 7:21:06 AM, drpiek wrote:
For many years I was agnostic. My life had gone very well and believing that I was the entire reason for that was causing me to become a bit conceited. I then though of all the ways it could have gone wrong yet, it did not. The reason i believe in god is because doing so allows me to be humble and know that I could not have done it without the grace of god.

You don't need God to be humble. Look at me, I am the humblest man in the world, and that is a fact.

This --^
This thread is like eavesdropping on a conversation in a mental asylum. - Bulproof

You can call your invisible friends whatever you like. - Desmac

What the hell kind of coked up sideshow has this thread turned into. - Casten
bornofgod
Posts: 11,322
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
2/24/2015 7:53:16 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 2/24/2015 2:18:48 PM, drpiek wrote:
At 2/24/2015 12:36:49 PM, Skepticalone wrote:
At 2/24/2015 7:21:06 AM, drpiek wrote:
For many years I was agnostic. My life had gone very well and believing that I was the entire reason for that was causing me to become a bit conceited. I then though of all the ways it could have gone wrong yet, it did not. The reason i believe in god is because doing so allows me to be humble and know that I could not have done it without the grace of god.

How do you explain devout believers having rough lives? This seems to be a fairly weak reason to believe in my estimation.

Some seem to choose rough lives because there religion glorifies it, others well I don't know.

No man chooses what life he wants in this world. Our Creator is the one who created life experiences and the people who experience life.

Amos 4
13: For lo, he who forms the mountains, and creates the wind, and declares to man what is his thought;

Deuteronomy 32
39: "`See now that I, even I, am he, and there is no god beside me; I kill and I make alive; I wound and I heal; and there is none that can deliver out of my hand.

Exodus 4:
10: But Moses said to the LORD, "Oh, my Lord, I am not eloquent, either heretofore or since thou hast spoken to thy servant; but I am slow of speech and of tongue."
11: Then the LORD said to him, "Who has made man's mouth? Who makes him dumb, or deaf, or seeing, or blind? Is it not I, the LORD?

I Samuel 2
2: There is none holy like the Lord, there is none besides thee; there is no rock like our God.
3: Talk no more so very proudly, let not arrogance come from your mouth; for the Lord is a God of knowledge, and by him actions are weighed.
4: The bows of the mighty are broken, but the feeble gird on strength.
5: Those who were full have hired themselves out for bread but those who were hungry have ceased to hunger. The barren has borne seven, but she who has many children is forlorn.
6: The Lord kills and brings to life; he brings down to Sheol and raises up.
7: The Lord makes poor and makes rich; he brings low, he also exalts.
8: He raises up the poor from the dust; he lifts the needy from the ask heap, to make them sit with princes and inherit a seat of honor. For the pillars of the earth are the Lord"s, and on them he has set the world.
9: "He will guard the feet of his faithful ones; but the wicked shall be cut off in darkness; for not by might shall a man pervail.
10: The adversaries of the Lord shall be broken to pieces; against them he will thunder in heaven. The Lord will judge the ends of the earth; he will give strength to his king, and exalt the power of his anointed."

Psalm 94
7: and they say, "The LORD does not see; the God of Jacob does not perceive."
8: Understand, O dullest of the people! Fools, when will you be wise?
9: He who planted the ear, does he not hear? He who formed the eye, does he not see?
10: He who chastens the nations, does he not chastise? He who teaches men knowledge,
11: the LORD, knows the thoughts of man, that they are but a breath.

I Corinthians 1:
25: For the foolishness of God is wiser than men, and the weakness of God is stronger than men.
26: For consider your call, brethren; not many of you were wise according to worldly standards, not many were powerful, not many were of noble birth;
27: but God chose what is foolish in the world to shame the wise, God chose what is weak in the world to shame the strong,
28: God chose what is low and despised in the world, even things that are not, to bring to nothing things that are,
29: so that no human being might boast in the presence of God.
drpiek
Posts: 589
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
2/24/2015 8:00:18 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 2/24/2015 2:35:03 PM, debate_power wrote:
At 2/24/2015 2:20:54 PM, drpiek wrote:
At 2/24/2015 1:37:22 PM, debate_power wrote:
At 2/24/2015 7:21:06 AM, drpiek wrote:
For many years I was agnostic. My life had gone very well and believing that I was the entire reason for that was causing me to become a bit conceited. I then though of all the ways it could have gone wrong yet, it did not. The reason i believe in god is because doing so allows me to be humble and know that I could not have done it without the grace of god.

How do you know that you required an infinitely powerful being to accomplish such a mundane task?

I do not see it as mundane.

Why do you think it requires an all-powerful being? That's one hell of an unfounded assumption, don't you think?

Because that is what it took to humble me. Nothing else.
drpiek
Posts: 589
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
2/24/2015 8:01:35 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 2/24/2015 2:45:02 PM, UndeniableReality wrote:
At 2/24/2015 7:21:06 AM, drpiek wrote:
For many years I was agnostic. My life had gone very well and believing that I was the entire reason for that was causing me to become a bit conceited. I then though of all the ways it could have gone wrong yet, it did not. The reason i believe in god is because doing so allows me to be humble and know that I could not have done it without the grace of god.

You couldn't have done it without all the people in your life either. You were never the entire reason for your success.
I agree now, but I would have argued it was all me in the past.
Idealist
Posts: 2,520
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
2/24/2015 8:08:41 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 2/24/2015 7:21:06 AM, drpiek wrote:
For many years I was agnostic. My life had gone very well and believing that I was the entire reason for that was causing me to become a bit conceited. I then though of all the ways it could have gone wrong yet, it did not. The reason i believe in god is because doing so allows me to be humble and know that I could not have done it without the grace of god.

Humility is definitely a good thing, at least in my book. I doubt that any of us could survive for long totally on our own.
RuvDraba
Posts: 6,033
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
2/24/2015 8:09:07 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 2/24/2015 7:21:06 AM, drpiek wrote:
The reason i believe in god is because doing so allows me to be humble:

...except possibly about the purpose of the universe, the eternal nature of the soul, the preciousness of your existence, the truth of personal revelation, and the existence of a perfect afterlife Especially for You.

[;)]
drpiek
Posts: 589
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
2/24/2015 9:20:17 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 2/24/2015 8:09:07 PM, RuvDraba wrote:
At 2/24/2015 7:21:06 AM, drpiek wrote:
The reason i believe in god is because doing so allows me to be humble:

...except possibly about the purpose of the universe, the eternal nature of the soul, the preciousness of your existence, the truth of personal revelation, and the existence of a perfect afterlife Especially for You.

[;)]
nope that is all ancillary fun stuff to ponder.
Skyangel
Posts: 8,234
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
2/24/2015 9:38:49 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 2/24/2015 7:21:06 AM, drpiek wrote:
For many years I was agnostic. My life had gone very well and believing that I was the entire reason for that was causing me to become a bit conceited. I then though of all the ways it could have gone wrong yet, it did not. The reason i believe in god is because doing so allows me to be humble and know that I could not have done it without the grace of god.

How does a belief in a personification of the universe make anyone humble?

Many believe in the universe and are still not very humble people in spite of understanding the universe and Nature is more powerful than mere people.
drpiek
Posts: 589
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
2/24/2015 9:41:48 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 2/24/2015 9:38:49 PM, Skyangel wrote:
At 2/24/2015 7:21:06 AM, drpiek wrote:
For many years I was agnostic. My life had gone very well and believing that I was the entire reason for that was causing me to become a bit conceited. I then though of all the ways it could have gone wrong yet, it did not. The reason i believe in god is because doing so allows me to be humble and know that I could not have done it without the grace of god.

How does a belief in a personification of the universe make anyone humble?

Many believe in the universe and are still not very humble people in spite of understanding the universe and Nature is more powerful than mere people.

I cannot say it would work for everyone, but it works for me.
Skyangel
Posts: 8,234
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
2/24/2015 9:43:03 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 2/24/2015 9:41:48 PM, drpiek wrote:
At 2/24/2015 9:38:49 PM, Skyangel wrote:
At 2/24/2015 7:21:06 AM, drpiek wrote:
For many years I was agnostic. My life had gone very well and believing that I was the entire reason for that was causing me to become a bit conceited. I then though of all the ways it could have gone wrong yet, it did not. The reason i believe in god is because doing so allows me to be humble and know that I could not have done it without the grace of god.

How does a belief in a personification of the universe make anyone humble?

Many believe in the universe and are still not very humble people in spite of understanding the universe and Nature is more powerful than mere people.

I cannot say it would work for everyone, but it works for me.

That does not answer the question. HOW does a belief in a personification of the universe make anyone humble?
dee-em
Posts: 6,446
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
2/24/2015 11:07:08 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 2/24/2015 8:57:49 AM, drpiek wrote:
At 2/24/2015 8:30:15 AM, dee-em wrote:
At 2/24/2015 7:21:06 AM, drpiek wrote:
For many years I was agnostic. My life had gone very well and believing that I was the entire reason for that was causing me to become a bit conceited. I then though of all the ways it could have gone wrong yet, it did not. The reason i believe in god is because doing so allows me to be humble and know that I could not have done it without the grace of god.

So the conclusion must be that for those who do experience some hardship in their lives, there must be no god? The hardship would have destroyed any possibility of conceit (so already humble) and they certainly couldn't claim to have done it with help since it went wrong (so no grace of god). Correct?

I don't know I cannot speak for them. That said it does seem like that is the way many atheists think. There thinking usually seems to focus on that they did not deserve those hardships so either there is no god, or god is no good.

How do you explain that religion is strongest amongst that very demographic - the poor, sick and downtrodden?

http://www.cbc.ca...

The USA seems to be the only exception but even within the country, religiosity follows the same trend with the Bible Belt corresponding with the less well-off states.