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Morals can't "exist" without God....

Envisage
Posts: 3,646
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2/24/2015 5:48:59 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
... and they cannot exist with a God either.

You now may commence embracing nihilism.

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Alright... I'll make some argument, for pragmatic relativism rather than nihilism:

1. Morals prescribe situations that ought to be preferred over others
2. All situations that ought to be preferred over others are either inherently subjective or decreed by fiat
3. All decrees by fiat are arbitary
C. Either morals prescribe inherently subjective situations, or arbitary situations

Thus, we have a choice. Either we:

1. Use the pragmatic subjective moral terminology and link morality directly to the subject
2. Use the arbitary, and divorced from human/subjective interest decrees

The former clearly is a much more useful umbrella from which morals can be scaled and labelled under, the latter are simply orders which we may or may not care about, and thus are functionally useless. One can claim that "that is wrong!" but then they are equivocating their decree concept of morality, with your subjective concept of morality, when they refer to two different things. Thus one can simply reject their definition of "wrong" with a clear conscience.
bornofgod
Posts: 11,322
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2/24/2015 7:43:27 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 2/24/2015 5:48:59 PM, Envisage wrote:
... and they cannot exist with a God either.

You now may commence embracing nihilism.

.
.
.

Alright... I'll make some argument, for pragmatic relativism rather than nihilism:

1. Morals prescribe situations that ought to be preferred over others
2. All situations that ought to be preferred over others are either inherently subjective or decreed by fiat
3. All decrees by fiat are arbitary
C. Either morals prescribe inherently subjective situations, or arbitary situations

Thus, we have a choice. Either we:

1. Use the pragmatic subjective moral terminology and link morality directly to the subject
2. Use the arbitary, and divorced from human/subjective interest decrees

The former clearly is a much more useful umbrella from which morals can be scaled and labelled under, the latter are simply orders which we may or may not care about, and thus are functionally useless. One can claim that "that is wrong!" but then they are equivocating their decree concept of morality, with your subjective concept of morality, when they refer to two different things. Thus one can simply reject their definition of "wrong" with a clear conscience.

The universe we humans experience cannot exist without our Creator because the universe is only an illusion that isn't real. What is real is our Creator's thoughts where everything exists as information.