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'Existence'

preprurmind
Posts: 1
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2/24/2015 7:16:41 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
Let's get this straight, is it possible to disprove a supernatural being's 'existence'? Or can we only reduce the probability of the existence of something?
Bendido
Posts: 421
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2/24/2015 7:35:34 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 2/24/2015 7:16:41 PM, preprurmind wrote:
Let's get this straight, is it possible to disprove a supernatural being's 'existence'? Or can we only reduce the probability of the existence of something?

Romans 1:19-22

19.They know the truth about God because he has made it obvious to them.

20.For since the creation of the world God's invisible qualities--his eternal power and divine nature--have been clearly seen, being understood from what has been made, so that people are without excuse.

21.For although they knew God, they neither glorified him as God nor gave thanks to him, but their thinking became futile and their foolish hearts were darkened.

22.Although they claimed to be wise, they became fools
bornofgod
Posts: 11,322
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2/24/2015 7:36:44 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 2/24/2015 7:16:41 PM, preprurmind wrote:
Let's get this straight, is it possible to disprove a supernatural being's 'existence'? Or can we only reduce the probability of the existence of something?

It's impossible to prove or disprove that our Creator exists with hard physical evidence. But with everything we now know of the invisible and visible realms, it's almost impossible to listen to people who don't believe that a designer of it all exists.
RuvDraba
Posts: 6,033
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2/24/2015 7:46:45 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 2/24/2015 7:16:41 PM, preprurmind wrote:
Let's get this straight, is it possible to disprove a supernatural being's 'existence'? Or can we only reduce the probability of the existence of something?

Within a reasonable definition of proof, disproof and possibility, I think we can do the former, PPM. Let me try and explain why.

I think we have two different meanings of 'possible' to work with.

One meaning -- a philosophical one -- is 'I cannot discount this as being true under incomprehensible circumstances.' This nonconstructive meaning ('it might be true, but I'm not sure why') is popular among philosophers, politicians, theologians, authors, confidence tricksters, and other users of rhetoric.

But another meaning of 'possible' is: 'I appreciate how this might occur under familiar or credible circumstances.' This meaning is used by experimental scientists, police, criminal lawyers, parents, mechanics, plumbers and virtually everyone with a real job.

I want to suggest that proof and disproof really only apply to what we think is possible. In particular, we don't have to disprove anything that isn't shown to be possible in the first place -- in fact, we don't have to consider it at all! It's not that lack of disproof makes it possible; rather than absent evidence of possibility it demands no disproof.

That being so, which meaning of possibility do you want to live with?

When I read science fiction, fantasy or thrillers I like the first meaning, but when I live my life, I prefer the second. I'll happily read on if JRR Tolkien tells me how Il"vatar created the universe, but if a Poky Little Man knocks on my door one Saturday to tell me the same, then I don't feel the need to disprove it or even consider it until said PLM convinces me in specific, constructive, mutually-understood terms that he knows what the heck he's talking about.

And that's not judged by his conviction, but by my examination of his knowledge and rigour against our shared experience of reality.

I hope this may help. :)
Idealist
Posts: 2,520
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2/24/2015 8:14:48 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 2/24/2015 7:16:41 PM, preprurmind wrote:
Let's get this straight, is it possible to disprove a supernatural being's 'existence'? Or can we only reduce the probability of the existence of something?

We can only increase or reduce the probability of a thing. You are standing on a planet made of countless quantum particles, not two of which ever meet, and you are made of identical particles. What separates you from the planet, or keeps you for merely sinking-in? We can create theories with various values, but there are no absolutes.
Illegalcombatant
Posts: 4,008
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2/24/2015 8:38:29 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 2/24/2015 7:16:41 PM, preprurmind wrote:
Let's get this straight, is it possible to disprove a supernatural being's 'existence'? Or can we only reduce the probability of the existence of something?

We can't disprove all supernatural being propositions.

We can't even disprove that their are aliens walking among us, they are just really good at hiding, those sneaky sneaky aliens !!!

But we can disprove some such propositions depending on certain specifics.

Eg: We can disprove that their exists an all powerful, all knowing supernatural being who stops baby cancer cause of the existence of baby cancer.
"Seems like another attempt to insert God into areas our knowledge has yet to penetrate. You figure God would be bigger than the gaps of our ignorance." Drafterman 19/5/12
dee-em
Posts: 6,458
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2/25/2015 12:47:06 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 2/24/2015 7:16:41 PM, preprurmind wrote:
Let's get this straight, is it possible to disprove a supernatural being's 'existence'? Or can we only reduce the probability of the existence of something?

Yes, if you can get a list of attributes for this supernatural being. If two or more of these attributes are mutually exclusive, ie you can establish a contradiction, then this would make such a being an incoherent concept. For example, this can be done with the properties 'omnipotent' and 'omniscient' which are usually attributed to God. Logically. it can be demonstrated that one entity cannot possess both of these attributes.
ethang5
Posts: 4,093
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2/25/2015 10:08:44 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 2/25/2015 12:47:06 AM, dee-em wrote:
At 2/24/2015 7:16:41 PM, preprurmind wrote:
Let's get this straight, is it possible to disprove a supernatural being's 'existence'? Or can we only reduce the probability of the existence of something?

Yes, if you can get a list of attributes for this supernatural being. If two or more of these attributes are mutually exclusive, ie you can establish a contradiction, then this would make such a being an incoherent concept. For example, this can be done with the properties 'omnipotent' and 'omniscient' which are usually attributed to God. Logically. it can be demonstrated that one entity cannot possess both of these attributes.

How?
PolyCarp
Posts: 63
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2/25/2015 12:33:14 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
Of course we can disprove the existence of a supernatural being. If its existence is paradoxical, then it can't exist. Also if it can't be proven there is a supernatural (I prefer to say supranatural) reality, then the best thing to do is to not believe in it because it doesn't meet the burden of proof and it fails occams razor to postulate its existence.
"Perhaps the atheist cannot find God for the same reason the thief cannot find a policeman"

--G.K Chesterton
JJ50
Posts: 2,144
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2/25/2015 12:46:12 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 2/24/2015 7:16:41 PM, preprurmind wrote:
Let's get this straight, is it possible to disprove a supernatural being's 'existence'? Or can we only reduce the probability of the existence of something?

There is no verifiable evidence a deity exists, or has ever existed. It is remotely possible one could exist in another dimension somewhere, but I am of the opinion all those worshiped by people on this planet are human creations.
dee-em
Posts: 6,458
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2/25/2015 6:18:45 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 2/25/2015 10:08:44 AM, ethang5 wrote:
At 2/25/2015 12:47:06 AM, dee-em wrote:
At 2/24/2015 7:16:41 PM, preprurmind wrote:
Let's get this straight, is it possible to disprove a supernatural being's 'existence'? Or can we only reduce the probability of the existence of something?

Yes, if you can get a list of attributes for this supernatural being. If two or more of these attributes are mutually exclusive, ie you can establish a contradiction, then this would make such a being an incoherent concept. For example, this can be done with the properties 'omnipotent' and 'omniscient' which are usually attributed to God. Logically. it can be demonstrated that one entity cannot possess both of these attributes.

How?

http://wiki.ironchariots.org...

Even worse, these attributes are paradoxes within themselves:

www3.nd.edu/~jspeaks/courses/2009.../15-omnipotence-omniscience-2.pdf
ethang5
Posts: 4,093
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2/26/2015 8:32:31 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 2/25/2015 6:18:45 PM, dee-em wrote:
At 2/25/2015 10:08:44 AM, ethang5 wrote:
At 2/25/2015 12:47:06 AM, dee-em wrote:
At 2/24/2015 7:16:41 PM, preprurmind wrote:
Let's get this straight, is it possible to disprove a supernatural being's 'existence'? Or can we only reduce the probability of the existence of something?

Yes, if you can get a list of attributes for this supernatural being. If two or more of these attributes are mutually exclusive, ie you can establish a contradiction, then this would make such a being an incoherent concept. For example, this can be done with the properties 'omnipotent' and 'omniscient' which are usually attributed to God. Logically. it can be demonstrated that one entity cannot possess both of these attributes.

How?

http://wiki.ironchariots.org...

Even worse, these attributes are paradoxes within themselves:

www3.nd.edu/~jspeaks/courses/2009.../15-omnipotence-omniscience-2.pdf

lol, I'm rolling on the floor laughing. Who posted that website? Your 12 year old cousin? The page you cited is a study in illogic. There is no paradox of omnipotence.

My God, that this sort of thing puzzles some people is amazing. The site actually posted the old clunker of "Can God make a stone so heavy that He can't lift it?"

Really?? you don't see the total lack of logic in the question?

Here is a hint. The "heaviness" (how much the rock is gravitationally attracted by another body) of the rock has nothing to do with God's ability to "lift" it.

One might as well ask, "Can God make a rock so yellow that He can't lift it?" Both questions are equally nonsensical.
dee-em
Posts: 6,458
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2/26/2015 7:10:46 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 2/26/2015 8:32:31 AM, ethang5 wrote:
At 2/25/2015 6:18:45 PM, dee-em wrote:
At 2/25/2015 10:08:44 AM, ethang5 wrote:
At 2/25/2015 12:47:06 AM, dee-em wrote:
At 2/24/2015 7:16:41 PM, preprurmind wrote:
Let's get this straight, is it possible to disprove a supernatural being's 'existence'? Or can we only reduce the probability of the existence of something?

Yes, if you can get a list of attributes for this supernatural being. If two or more of these attributes are mutually exclusive, ie you can establish a contradiction, then this would make such a being an incoherent concept. For example, this can be done with the properties 'omnipotent' and 'omniscient' which are usually attributed to God. Logically. it can be demonstrated that one entity cannot possess both of these attributes.

How?

http://wiki.ironchariots.org...

Even worse, these attributes are paradoxes within themselves:

www3.nd.edu/~jspeaks/courses/2009.../15-omnipotence-omniscience-2.pdf

lol, I'm rolling on the floor laughing. Who posted that website? Your 12 year old cousin? The page you cited is a study in illogic. There is no paradox of omnipotence.

My God, that this sort of thing puzzles some people is amazing. The site actually posted the old clunker of "Can God make a stone so heavy that He can't lift it?"

Really?? you don't see the total lack of logic in the question?

Here is a hint. The "heaviness" (how much the rock is gravitationally attracted by another body) of the rock has nothing to do with God's ability to "lift" it.

One might as well ask, "Can God make a rock so yellow that He can't lift it?" Both questions are equally nonsensical.

Thank you for producing exactly the response I expected from you. You never fail to deliver in low expectations. It's why I don't bother with you. Dismissed.