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Convince Me There's No God

slo1
Posts: 4,364
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2/25/2015 10:36:06 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
I dont know why anyone would try to convince you of that. What I would say is that your interpretation of God has greater odds of being wrong than right, if you were to assume all interpetations of God are equally possible.

If your interpretation of rules to abide by or what to believe in is most likely wrong you are just as screwed as an atheist is when it come to a satisfactory after life. Thus what is the point of haveing a belief in the matter?
Proving_a_Negative
Posts: 88
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2/25/2015 10:56:32 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 2/25/2015 10:17:24 PM, ChristianPunk wrote:
I am interested to see what an atheist could say that could make me not be one anymore.

The burden of proof is on the theist. The correct statement would be "convince me to believe in god."
RuvDraba
Posts: 6,033
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2/25/2015 10:58:37 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 2/25/2015 10:17:24 PM, ChristianPunk wrote:
I am interested to see what an atheist could say that could make me not be one anymore.

Thank you for a fun idea, CP. :D

CP, a deity isn't simply a supernatural agency, because not every supernatural agency is worshiped. Poltergeists for example, aren't normally thought of as gods.

Chiefly, what makes any being a deity is its moral authority. Such authority can't be assumed by any amount of agency -- not omnipotence, omniscience, or having created the earth. It must actually be granted by its worshipers.

People being what they are, worshipers can grant moral authority through fear, greed or moral respect. But in each case they want something in return: the servile want protection; the greedy want reward; and the moral want testable, actionable, meaningful insights into wisdom and compassion.

And finally, no matter how supernatural gods may or may not be, they cannot be ordinary. Their punishments, rewards and wisdom must be beyond compare.

So, if you are a god, then who fears you more than death itself and what inhuman callousness and anguish have you driven them to in demonstration of this? Or if you have a coterie of greedy worshipers, how have you rewarded them, and what barbaric obscenities have you driven them to in proof of their devotion? Else, whom have you inspired with your wisdom and compassion, and what actionable, testable and generally confirmed insights have you offered for the furtherment of humanity that are unavailable elsewhere?

I hope that helps. :)
intellectuallyprimitive
Posts: 1,000
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2/25/2015 11:09:09 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 2/25/2015 10:17:24 PM, ChristianPunk wrote:
I am interested to see what an atheist could say that could make me not be one anymore.

I may not be able to convince you that there is no god, but I am certain that there has been no discovery of evidence. What does this suggest to you?
dee-em
Posts: 6,495
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2/26/2015 12:09:07 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 2/25/2015 10:17:24 PM, ChristianPunk wrote:
I am interested to see what an atheist could say that could make me not be one anymore.

Do you believe in Allah?
No?
Then you are already convinced of the non-existence of a God.
Illegalcombatant
Posts: 4,008
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2/26/2015 12:45:56 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 2/25/2015 10:17:24 PM, ChristianPunk wrote:
I am interested to see what an atheist could say that could make me not be one anymore.

Think about all the other things you DON"T believe in.

One of my personal favorites are the alien over lords propositions. They walk amongst us, some of our leaders are even them (in disguise of course). There true form being reptilian for some reason.

Can you prove with 100% certainty they don't exist ? nope.

Can people come up with all sorts of rationlizations to get around any objections ? you bet.

Will this convince you ? or will it just confirm that excuse after excuse is needed to justify the aliens overlords who are not there ?

This is what it is like for people who don't believe in the various claims that go under the banner of "God"
"Seems like another attempt to insert God into areas our knowledge has yet to penetrate. You figure God would be bigger than the gaps of our ignorance." Drafterman 19/5/12
PolyCarp
Posts: 63
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2/26/2015 12:46:52 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 2/25/2015 10:56:32 PM, Proving_a_Negative wrote:
At 2/25/2015 10:17:24 PM, ChristianPunk wrote:
I am interested to see what an atheist could say that could make me not be one anymore.

The burden of proof is on the theist. The correct statement would be "convince me to believe in god."

The burden of proof also partly falls on the atheist, especially when dealing with the religious person. Atheism is denial of the existence of God (plato.stanford.edu/entries/atheism-agnosticism/#1) when a religious person presents a tradition and book, they could justify their belief as coming from historical enounters with the divine. Then you must show why their books and teachings are invalid reasons to believe in God.
"Perhaps the atheist cannot find God for the same reason the thief cannot find a policeman"

--G.K Chesterton
Gump
Posts: 67
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2/26/2015 12:48:40 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
God wouldnt allow any c.p to be freely handed out on debate.org like what is happening
Proving_a_Negative
Posts: 88
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2/26/2015 1:00:01 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 2/26/2015 12:46:52 AM, PolyCarp wrote:
At 2/25/2015 10:56:32 PM, Proving_a_Negative wrote:
At 2/25/2015 10:17:24 PM, ChristianPunk wrote:
I am interested to see what an atheist could say that could make me not be one anymore.

The burden of proof is on the theist. The correct statement would be "convince me to believe in god."

The burden of proof also partly falls on the atheist, especially when dealing with the religious person. Atheism is denial of the existence of God (plato.stanford.edu/entries/atheism-agnosticism/#1) when a religious person presents a tradition and book, they could justify their belief as coming from historical enounters with the divine. Then you must show why their books and teachings are invalid reasons to believe in God.

I suppose there is room to say "god (like unicorns) is possible, but not likely." That is the best I can give you. I disagree though with some characteristics attributed to god if it did exist. I don't believe that it is possible for an all powerful being to exist. There are far too many paradoxes for such an ability to be possible.
Bennett91
Posts: 4,237
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2/26/2015 1:08:04 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 2/25/2015 10:17:24 PM, ChristianPunk wrote:
I am interested to see what an atheist could say that could make me not be one anymore.

This is a silly request. You're not asking to be challenged; you're looking for arguments to refute to strengthen your faith.But I'll give it a whack for fun.

What does it mean to believe in God? Does God make demands of you? How can you be sure what those demands are, if any?
ChristianPunk
Posts: 1,710
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2/26/2015 2:31:03 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 2/25/2015 10:56:32 PM, Proving_a_Negative wrote:
At 2/25/2015 10:17:24 PM, ChristianPunk wrote:
I am interested to see what an atheist could say that could make me not be one anymore.

The burden of proof is on the theist. The correct statement would be "convince me to believe in god."

I know, which is why the challenge should be somewhat difficult since I am convinced that God exists, but is there a way to be convinced that what I believe is not true?
JJ50
Posts: 2,144
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2/26/2015 2:32:16 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 2/25/2015 10:17:24 PM, ChristianPunk wrote:
I am interested to see what an atheist could say that could make me not be one anymore.

No one can say for sure there is no deity existing in some dimension. However it is highly unlikely the ones which humans worship exist, imo. If people want to believe in some higher power that is their choice. Stating for a fact it exists and all that is attributed to it is true, is a lie as they can't produce verifiable evidence to back it up.
ChristianPunk
Posts: 1,710
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2/26/2015 2:36:55 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 2/26/2015 12:09:07 AM, dee-em wrote:
At 2/25/2015 10:17:24 PM, ChristianPunk wrote:
I am interested to see what an atheist could say that could make me not be one anymore.

Do you believe in Allah?
No?
Then you are already convinced of the non-existence of a God.

I'm talking about the belief that there's a deity out there at all. I believe one exists and that that God is from the Bible.
ChristianPunk
Posts: 1,710
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2/26/2015 2:39:33 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 2/26/2015 12:46:52 AM, PolyCarp wrote:
At 2/25/2015 10:56:32 PM, Proving_a_Negative wrote:
At 2/25/2015 10:17:24 PM, ChristianPunk wrote:
I am interested to see what an atheist could say that could make me not be one anymore.

The burden of proof is on the theist. The correct statement would be "convince me to believe in god."

The burden of proof also partly falls on the atheist, especially when dealing with the religious person. Atheism is denial of the existence of God (plato.stanford.edu/entries/atheism-agnosticism/#1) when a religious person presents a tradition and book, they could justify their belief as coming from historical enounters with the divine. Then you must show why their books and teachings are invalid reasons to believe in God.

A denial of God would have to mean that atheists know God exists? Are you claiming they do?
RuvDraba
Posts: 6,033
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2/26/2015 2:47:14 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 2/26/2015 2:39:33 AM, ChristianPunk wrote:
A denial of God would have to mean that atheists know God exists? Are you claiming they do?

This could be semantic quibbling, CP. Some atheists (myself included) believe theists don't actually have a claim worth considering -- i.e. despite believing what they say, they don't know what they're actually talking about.
ChristianPunk
Posts: 1,710
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2/26/2015 2:50:12 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 2/26/2015 1:08:04 AM, Bennett91 wrote:
At 2/25/2015 10:17:24 PM, ChristianPunk wrote:
I am interested to see what an atheist could say that could make me not be one anymore.

This is a silly request. You're not asking to be challenged; you're looking for arguments to refute to strengthen your faith.But I'll give it a whack for fun.

What does it mean to believe in God? Does God make demands of you? How can you be sure what those demands are, if any?

No. I'm actually looking to be convinced that there is no God. I'm pretty sure you would've said the same to Matt Dilahunty or Dusty Smith (cultofdusty) when they were christians. Then it took arguments and looking into their religion to be convinced otherwise.

What does it mean to believe in God? It means a great deal of understanding spirituality and grasping what this God can do.

As far as I'm concerned, if the God is from the bible, he doesn't make demands. It seems though as he used to with one group of people but now we have a new contract (covenant) that says we are all free from the law of our Israelite ancestors. So while an afterlife punishment and reward system is in place, it all depends on how you care for not just society, but yourself. But if we didn't have a book or means of communication to the God, we wouldn't know what He or She wants.
ChristianPunk
Posts: 1,710
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2/26/2015 2:51:22 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 2/26/2015 2:47:14 AM, RuvDraba wrote:
At 2/26/2015 2:39:33 AM, ChristianPunk wrote:
A denial of God would have to mean that atheists know God exists? Are you claiming they do?

This could be semantic quibbling, CP. Some atheists (myself included) believe theists don't actually have a claim worth considering -- i.e. despite believing what they say, they don't know what they're actually talking about.

Do you believe the same can come from me?
dee-em
Posts: 6,495
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2/26/2015 3:21:10 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 2/26/2015 2:36:55 AM, ChristianPunk wrote:
At 2/26/2015 12:09:07 AM, dee-em wrote:
At 2/25/2015 10:17:24 PM, ChristianPunk wrote:
I am interested to see what an atheist could say that could make me not be one anymore.

Do you believe in Allah?
No?
Then you are already convinced of the non-existence of a God.

I'm talking about the belief that there's a deity out there at all.

So was I. If Allah exists, he is it. You reject that so you have rejected the existence of a God on a par to your own. So something about the question of the existence of Allah has been unconvincing to you. I'm suggesting you take the reason(s) which convinced you in the case of Allah and apply it to your God. You already have the ability to convince yourself that there is no God. You are just selective about how you apply it.

I believe one exists and that that God is from the Bible.

How does a statement of belief/faith accomplish anything? You asked to be convinced that there's no God yet here you acknowledge that yours is a faith-based position. That means no argument could possibly sway you since there is no rational basis for your belief. I can't use reason against blind faith.
Bennett91
Posts: 4,237
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2/26/2015 3:22:48 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 2/26/2015 2:50:12 AM, ChristianPunk wrote:
At 2/26/2015 1:08:04 AM, Bennett91 wrote:
At 2/25/2015 10:17:24 PM, ChristianPunk wrote:
I am interested to see what an atheist could say that could make me not be one anymore.

This is a silly request. You're not asking to be challenged; you're looking for arguments to refute to strengthen your faith.But I'll give it a whack for fun.

What does it mean to believe in God? Does God make demands of you? How can you be sure what those demands are, if any?

No. I'm actually looking to be convinced that there is no God. I'm pretty sure you would've said the same to Matt Dilahunty or Dusty Smith (cultofdusty) when they were christians. Then it took arguments and looking into their religion to be convinced otherwise.

I'm not familiar with either of these folks.

What does it mean to believe in God? It means a great deal of understanding spirituality and grasping what this God can do.

I feel that is an understatement.

Have you read the Bible in it's entirety?

As far as I'm concerned, if the God is from the bible, he doesn't make demands.

You have not read the Bible. The both Old and New Testaments are full of rules and regulations that one must live by. And before you say Old Testament no longer applies, "Do not think that I have come to abolish the Law or the Prophets; I have not come to abolish them but to fulfill them. For truly, I say to you, until heaven and earth pass away, not an iota, not a dot, will pass from the Law until all is accomplished." (Mathew 5:17-18)

Furthermore what makes you think God is the God of the Bible?

It seems though as he used to with one group of people but now we have a new contract (covenant) that says we are all free from the law of our Israelite ancestors. So while an afterlife punishment and reward system is in place, it all depends on how you care for not just society, but yourself. But if we didn't have a book or means of communication to the God, we wouldn't know what He or She wants.

And if you punish and hurt yourself, God finds that you should be punished in the afterlife too? Such is the reward/punishment system you describe.
ChristianPunk
Posts: 1,710
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2/26/2015 3:23:54 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 2/26/2015 3:21:10 AM, dee-em wrote:
At 2/26/2015 2:36:55 AM, ChristianPunk wrote:
At 2/26/2015 12:09:07 AM, dee-em wrote:
At 2/25/2015 10:17:24 PM, ChristianPunk wrote:
I am interested to see what an atheist could say that could make me not be one anymore.

Do you believe in Allah?
No?
Then you are already convinced of the non-existence of a God.

I'm talking about the belief that there's a deity out there at all.

So was I. If Allah exists, he is it. You reject that so you have rejected the existence of a God on a par to your own. So something about the question of the existence of Allah has been unconvincing to you. I'm suggesting you take the reason(s) which convinced you in the case of Allah and apply it to your God. You already have the ability to convince yourself that there is no God. You are just selective about how you apply it.

I believe one exists and that that God is from the Bible.

How does a statement of belief/faith accomplish anything? You asked to be convinced that there's no God yet here you acknowledge that yours is a faith-based position. That means no argument could possibly sway you since there is no rational basis for your belief. I can't use reason against blind faith.

Try telling that to Matt Dillahunty and Dusty Smith when they were christians. Now they're atheists.
dee-em
Posts: 6,495
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2/26/2015 3:27:37 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 2/26/2015 3:23:54 AM, ChristianPunk wrote:
At 2/26/2015 3:21:10 AM, dee-em wrote:
At 2/26/2015 2:36:55 AM, ChristianPunk wrote:
At 2/26/2015 12:09:07 AM, dee-em wrote:
At 2/25/2015 10:17:24 PM, ChristianPunk wrote:
I am interested to see what an atheist could say that could make me not be one anymore.

Do you believe in Allah?
No?
Then you are already convinced of the non-existence of a God.

I'm talking about the belief that there's a deity out there at all.

So was I. If Allah exists, he is it. You reject that so you have rejected the existence of a God on a par to your own. So something about the question of the existence of Allah has been unconvincing to you. I'm suggesting you take the reason(s) which convinced you in the case of Allah and apply it to your God. You already have the ability to convince yourself that there is no God. You are just selective about how you apply it.

I believe one exists and that that God is from the Bible.

How does a statement of belief/faith accomplish anything? You asked to be convinced that there's no God yet here you acknowledge that yours is a faith-based position. That means no argument could possibly sway you since there is no rational basis for your belief. I can't use reason against blind faith.

Try telling that to Matt Dillahunty and Dusty Smith when they were christians. Now they're atheists.

I don't know who they are but obviously some people are, or become, amenable to reason. The question is, are you?
Bennett91
Posts: 4,237
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2/26/2015 3:32:06 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 2/26/2015 3:23:54 AM, ChristianPunk wrote:

Try telling that to Matt Dillahunty and Dusty Smith when they were christians. Now they're atheists.

This is why I don't take you seriously. I just looked them up.

If you cared at all about these guys and why they are atheists you'd listen to them and why they no longer believe. What do you need us in your own person revelation? We can't do the work for you. If you want to believe none of us can convince you.
ChristianPunk
Posts: 1,710
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2/26/2015 3:33:14 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 2/26/2015 3:22:48 AM, Bennett91 wrote:
At 2/26/2015 2:50:12 AM, ChristianPunk wrote:
At 2/26/2015 1:08:04 AM, Bennett91 wrote:
At 2/25/2015 10:17:24 PM, ChristianPunk wrote:
I am interested to see what an atheist could say that could make me not be one anymore.

This is a silly request. You're not asking to be challenged; you're looking for arguments to refute to strengthen your faith.But I'll give it a whack for fun.

What does it mean to believe in God? Does God make demands of you? How can you be sure what those demands are, if any?

No. I'm actually looking to be convinced that there is no God. I'm pretty sure you would've said the same to Matt Dilahunty or Dusty Smith (cultofdusty) when they were christians. Then it took arguments and looking into their religion to be convinced otherwise.

I'm not familiar with either of these folks.

What does it mean to believe in God? It means a great deal of understanding spirituality and grasping what this God can do.

I feel that is an understatement.

Have you read the Bible in it's entirety?

As far as I'm concerned, if the God is from the bible, he doesn't make demands.

You have not read the Bible. The both Old and New Testaments are full of rules and regulations that one must live by. And before you say Old Testament no longer applies, "Do not think that I have come to abolish the Law or the Prophets; I have not come to abolish them but to fulfill them. For truly, I say to you, until heaven and earth pass away, not an iota, not a dot, will pass from the Law until all is accomplished." (Mathew 5:17-18)

Furthermore what makes you think God is the God of the Bible?

It seems though as he used to with one group of people but now we have a new contract (covenant) that says we are all free from the law of our Israelite ancestors. So while an afterlife punishment and reward system is in place, it all depends on how you care for not just society, but yourself. But if we didn't have a book or means of communication to the God, we wouldn't know what He or She wants.

And if you punish and hurt yourself, God finds that you should be punished in the afterlife too? Such is the reward/punishment system you describe.

I have not read the bible in its entirety, but I've read the shocking parts and the so called contradictions.

The bible states in the New Testament that we are dead to the old law and that we are saved through Grace and by faith alone. So there is where freedom comes. Not freedom to just do the things, but that we can at least ask for forgiveness in a more simpler way.

Based on experiences I have had, the bible always gives the best explainations to what I've felt.

Well, the way it is, the person who didn't change their life and enjoyed the pain and suffering they were inflicting, then they deserve the place where they can get more of what they enjoy? So it sounds like a reward system. I'd consider it unfair, but I also consider capital punishment unfair and prison in general.
Proving_a_Negative
Posts: 88
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2/26/2015 3:34:02 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 2/26/2015 2:31:03 AM, ChristianPunk wrote:
At 2/25/2015 10:56:32 PM, Proving_a_Negative wrote:
At 2/25/2015 10:17:24 PM, ChristianPunk wrote:
I am interested to see what an atheist could say that could make me not be one anymore.

The burden of proof is on the theist. The correct statement would be "convince me to believe in god."

I know, which is why the challenge should be somewhat difficult since I am convinced that God exists, but is there a way to be convinced that what I believe is not true?

Ask yourself why you believe it. I used to be a christian myself. I eventually began looking for evidence of god's existence and couldn't find any. I decide to think reasonably and critically and I gave up my belief in god until evidence is presented.
ChristianPunk
Posts: 1,710
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2/26/2015 3:40:02 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 2/26/2015 3:32:06 AM, Bennett91 wrote:
At 2/26/2015 3:23:54 AM, ChristianPunk wrote:

Try telling that to Matt Dillahunty and Dusty Smith when they were christians. Now they're atheists.

This is why I don't take you seriously. I just looked them up.

If you cared at all about these guys and why they are atheists you'd listen to them and why they no longer believe. What do you need us in your own person revelation? We can't do the work for you. If you want to believe none of us can convince you.

Dusty got convinced to be an atheist because of an argument. He was asked to provide the evidence of Jesus historically. He found none and I admit it. The only reason I come different is my anarchism. I believe it is highly possible that Pilate and the Jewish Council burned the books or intimidated people to keep hush hush. There are some Jewish scholars that claim or believe that Jesus existed. So as an anarchist, I believe the government didn't like the idea since it spoke of a different ruler and was immediately silenced by the government at that time. Just like I believe conservatives will try to do with gay rights. I believe they'll burn any evidence that gays are good and that they asked for marriage. Heck they'll start killing soon.

And I'll ask this as to why I am doing this? Does it matter to you what I believe?
ChristianPunk
Posts: 1,710
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2/26/2015 3:42:31 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 2/26/2015 3:34:02 AM, Proving_a_Negative wrote:
At 2/26/2015 2:31:03 AM, ChristianPunk wrote:
At 2/25/2015 10:56:32 PM, Proving_a_Negative wrote:
At 2/25/2015 10:17:24 PM, ChristianPunk wrote:
I am interested to see what an atheist could say that could make me not be one anymore.

The burden of proof is on the theist. The correct statement would be "convince me to believe in god."

I know, which is why the challenge should be somewhat difficult since I am convinced that God exists, but is there a way to be convinced that what I believe is not true?

Ask yourself why you believe it. I used to be a christian myself. I eventually began looking for evidence of god's existence and couldn't find any. I decide to think reasonably and critically and I gave up my belief in god until evidence is presented.

I believe because of the change it brought in my life.

Let me ask. If you find evidence of God, would you worship him out of fear and discomfort or would you worship him because you really honestly wanted to?
Bennett91
Posts: 4,237
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2/26/2015 3:47:27 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 2/26/2015 3:33:14 AM, ChristianPunk wrote:
At 2/26/2015 3:22:48 AM, Bennett91 wrote:
At 2/26/2015 2:50:12 AM, ChristianPunk wrote:
At 2/26/2015 1:08:04 AM, Bennett91 wrote:
At 2/25/2015 10:17:24 PM, ChristianPunk wrote:
I am interested to see what an atheist could say that could make me not be one anymore.

This is a silly request. You're not asking to be challenged; you're looking for arguments to refute to strengthen your faith.But I'll give it a whack for fun.

What does it mean to believe in God? Does God make demands of you? How can you be sure what those demands are, if any?

No. I'm actually looking to be convinced that there is no God. I'm pretty sure you would've said the same to Matt Dilahunty or Dusty Smith (cultofdusty) when they were christians. Then it took arguments and looking into their religion to be convinced otherwise.

I'm not familiar with either of these folks.

What does it mean to believe in God? It means a great deal of understanding spirituality and grasping what this God can do.

I feel that is an understatement.

Have you read the Bible in it's entirety?

As far as I'm concerned, if the God is from the bible, he doesn't make demands.

You have not read the Bible. The both Old and New Testaments are full of rules and regulations that one must live by. And before you say Old Testament no longer applies, "Do not think that I have come to abolish the Law or the Prophets; I have not come to abolish them but to fulfill them. For truly, I say to you, until heaven and earth pass away, not an iota, not a dot, will pass from the Law until all is accomplished." (Mathew 5:17-18)

Furthermore what makes you think God is the God of the Bible?

It seems though as he used to with one group of people but now we have a new contract (covenant) that says we are all free from the law of our Israelite ancestors. So while an afterlife punishment and reward system is in place, it all depends on how you care for not just society, but yourself. But if we didn't have a book or means of communication to the God, we wouldn't know what He or She wants.

And if you punish and hurt yourself, God finds that you should be punished in the afterlife too? Such is the reward/punishment system you describe.

I have not read the bible in its entirety, but I've read the shocking parts and the so called contradictions.

The bible states in the New Testament that we are dead to the old law and that we are saved through Grace and by faith alone. So there is where freedom comes. Not freedom to just do the things, but that we can at least ask for forgiveness in a more simpler way.

Except you miss the part that says faith alone is not enough, "For the Son of Man will come in the glory of His Father with His angels, and then He will reward each according to his works." (Mathew 16:27) "Who will render to each one according to his deeds ... For not the hearers of the law are just in the sight of God, but the doers of the law will be justified." (Roman 2:6, 13) "What does it profit, my brethren, if someone says he has faith but does not have works? Can faith save him?" (James 2:14)

Based on experiences I have had, the bible always gives the best explainations to what I've felt.

I'm going to assume you've never even tried to read any other holy text.

Well, the way it is, the person who didn't change their life and enjoyed the pain and suffering they were inflicting, then they deserve the place where they can get more of what they enjoy? So it sounds like a reward system. I'd consider it unfair, but I also consider capital punishment unfair and prison in general.

It's a pity you're just an average Christian, you've skimmed the Bible and bothered with nothing else and have turned to Christianity not out of reason but out of convenience and statistics.
Bennett91
Posts: 4,237
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2/26/2015 3:49:55 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 2/26/2015 3:40:02 AM, ChristianPunk wrote:
At 2/26/2015 3:32:06 AM, Bennett91 wrote:
At 2/26/2015 3:23:54 AM, ChristianPunk wrote:

Try telling that to Matt Dillahunty and Dusty Smith when they were christians. Now they're atheists.

This is why I don't take you seriously. I just looked them up.

If you cared at all about these guys and why they are atheists you'd listen to them and why they no longer believe. What do you need us in your own person revelation? We can't do the work for you. If you want to believe none of us can convince you.

Dusty got convinced to be an atheist because of an argument. He was asked to provide the evidence of Jesus historically. He found none and I admit it. The only reason I come different is my anarchism. I believe it is highly possible that Pilate and the Jewish Council burned the books or intimidated people to keep hush hush. There are some Jewish scholars that claim or believe that Jesus existed. So as an anarchist, I believe the government didn't like the idea since it spoke of a different ruler and was immediately silenced by the government at that time. Just like I believe conservatives will try to do with gay rights. I believe they'll burn any evidence that gays are good and that they asked for marriage. Heck they'll start killing soon.

And I'll ask this as to why I am doing this? Does it matter to you what I believe?

An anarchist who believes in an ultimate singular authority .... lol. Never thought about applying that anarchy to the existential realm eh? hahahaha

Does it matter what you believe? No, I'm just pointing how how nonsensical your beliefs are. Entertainment on my part.
ChristianPunk
Posts: 1,710
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2/26/2015 4:32:42 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 2/26/2015 3:47:27 AM, Bennett91 wrote:
At 2/26/2015 3:33:14 AM, ChristianPunk wrote:
At 2/26/2015 3:22:48 AM, Bennett91 wrote:
At 2/26/2015 2:50:12 AM, ChristianPunk wrote:
At 2/26/2015 1:08:04 AM, Bennett91 wrote:
At 2/25/2015 10:17:24 PM, ChristianPunk wrote:
I am interested to see what an atheist could say that could make me not be one anymore.

This is a silly request. You're not asking to be challenged; you're looking for arguments to refute to strengthen your faith.But I'll give it a whack for fun.

What does it mean to believe in God? Does God make demands of you? How can you be sure what those demands are, if any?

No. I'm actually looking to be convinced that there is no God. I'm pretty sure you would've said the same to Matt Dilahunty or Dusty Smith (cultofdusty) when they were christians. Then it took arguments and looking into their religion to be convinced otherwise.

I'm not familiar with either of these folks.

What does it mean to believe in God? It means a great deal of understanding spirituality and grasping what this God can do.

I feel that is an understatement.

Have you read the Bible in it's entirety?

As far as I'm concerned, if the God is from the bible, he doesn't make demands.

You have not read the Bible. The both Old and New Testaments are full of rules and regulations that one must live by. And before you say Old Testament no longer applies, "Do not think that I have come to abolish the Law or the Prophets; I have not come to abolish them but to fulfill them. For truly, I say to you, until heaven and earth pass away, not an iota, not a dot, will pass from the Law until all is accomplished." (Mathew 5:17-18)

Furthermore what makes you think God is the God of the Bible?

It seems though as he used to with one group of people but now we have a new contract (covenant) that says we are all free from the law of our Israelite ancestors. So while an afterlife punishment and reward system is in place, it all depends on how you care for not just society, but yourself. But if we didn't have a book or means of communication to the God, we wouldn't know what He or She wants.

And if you punish and hurt yourself, God finds that you should be punished in the afterlife too? Such is the reward/punishment system you describe.

I have not read the bible in its entirety, but I've read the shocking parts and the so called contradictions.

The bible states in the New Testament that we are dead to the old law and that we are saved through Grace and by faith alone. So there is where freedom comes. Not freedom to just do the things, but that we can at least ask for forgiveness in a more simpler way.

Except you miss the part that says faith alone is not enough, "For the Son of Man will come in the glory of His Father with His angels, and then He will reward each according to his works." (Mathew 16:27) "Who will render to each one according to his deeds ... For not the hearers of the law are just in the sight of God, but the doers of the law will be justified." (Roman 2:6, 13) "What does it profit, my brethren, if someone says he has faith but does not have works? Can faith save him?" (James 2:14)

Based on experiences I have had, the bible always gives the best explainations to what I've felt.

I'm going to assume you've never even tried to read any other holy text.

Well, the way it is, the person who didn't change their life and enjoyed the pain and suffering they were inflicting, then they deserve the place where they can get more of what they enjoy? So it sounds like a reward system. I'd consider it unfair, but I also consider capital punishment unfair and prison in general.

It's a pity you're just an average Christian, you've skimmed the Bible and bothered with nothing else and have turned to Christianity not out of reason but out of convenience and statistics.

In Matthew, what is being rewarded to them? It doesn't mention heaven, so what about rewards on earth? Obviously you get a reward if you work out. As for the rest, it's all saying while faith saves us, our works show if we are truly saved. If somebody is a serial killer and they soon become christians, the killer can't just go back to killing. It goes against what he is taught of salvation. It's like learning about the harms of ciggerettes and drugs. Why do them if you know you won't get a permanent reward?

I've tried reading the Quran, which went to support the bible with verses like 5:47. I'd need to know what else is considered a holy text.

Well you can assume what you want, but I haven't read the entire bible because I've already read the gospels to know what it means to be saved and how. And it doesn't involvr following rules. It just shows that once my faith is in Him, my life will change on its own due to my own renewing (Romams 12:2). I'm not ashamed to just be an average. It's better than a fundamentalist who goes around killing souls and taking away LGBT rights which is against biblical teachings.