Total Posts:17|Showing Posts:1-17
Jump to topic:

Truth has no objective value if no God exists

Benshapiro
Posts: 3,941
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
2/26/2015 12:28:33 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
By objective value I mean definitively desired or preferred over ignorance. Discuss.
drpiek
Posts: 589
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
2/26/2015 12:36:40 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 2/26/2015 12:28:33 PM, Benshapiro wrote:
By objective value I mean definitively desired or preferred over ignorance. Discuss.

Objective means truth not beliefs or feelings. So if I drop an egg and it breaks that is an objective truth. If you think what I did was bad, that is subjective.
Envisage
Posts: 3,646
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
2/26/2015 12:38:59 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 2/26/2015 12:28:33 PM, Benshapiro wrote:
By objective value I mean definitively desired or preferred over ignorance. Discuss.

Truth has no objective value if God exists either.

/thread

<Embrace nihilism>
Benshapiro
Posts: 3,941
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
2/26/2015 1:16:28 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
If something is valuable, it's useful towards some end.

If human beings have an inherent purpose, whatever is useful towards that end is valuable.

The only possible way for humanity to have an inherent purpose is if God created mankind for a purpose.

Therefore truth can't have any objective value if God doesn't exist.
Burzmali
Posts: 1,310
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
2/26/2015 1:36:23 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 2/26/2015 12:28:33 PM, Benshapiro wrote:
By objective value I mean definitively desired or preferred over ignorance. Discuss.

Desire and preference are both subjective. How can you use those two words to define something that means the exact opposite?
Burzmali
Posts: 1,310
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
2/26/2015 1:39:48 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
Forget my previous post. Answer or don't, it doesn't really matter.

I'll go ahead and agree truth has no objective value. I'm fine with that. So what?
drpiek
Posts: 589
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
2/26/2015 2:15:41 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 2/26/2015 1:16:28 PM, Benshapiro wrote:
If something is valuable, it's useful towards some end.

If human beings have an inherent purpose, whatever is useful towards that end is valuable.

The only possible way for humanity to have an inherent purpose is if God created mankind for a purpose.

Therefore truth can't have any objective value if God doesn't exist.

If god does not exist, who would be the next person in the chain of command to make the decision of objectivity? It would be Man.
dhardage
Posts: 4,545
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
2/26/2015 2:17:20 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 2/26/2015 1:16:28 PM, Benshapiro wrote:
If something is valuable, it's useful towards some end.

If human beings have an inherent purpose, whatever is useful towards that end is valuable.

Human being have no more inherent purpose than any other life form on this planet. I know that scares you but that's how it is.

The only possible way for humanity to have an inherent purpose is if God created mankind for a purpose.

Irrelevant since no 'inherent' purpose' for humanity has been proven

Therefore truth can't have any objective value if God doesn't exist.

No link between premises and conclusion. There is no correlation between 'truth' and 'humanity'.
Harikrish
Posts: 11,005
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
2/26/2015 2:32:43 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 2/26/2015 12:36:40 PM, drpiek wrote:
At 2/26/2015 12:28:33 PM, Benshapiro wrote:
By objective value I mean definitively desired or preferred over ignorance. Discuss.

Objective means truth not beliefs or feelings. So if I drop an egg and it breaks that is an objective truth. If you think what I did was bad, that is subjective.

If the egg broke, it becomes a fact. It is no more objective or less objective if the egg did not break anymore than if the egg did brake.
Truth does not mean objective. Truth can be relative. Is water a solid, liquid or vapour.?The truth is it is all three depending on the circumstances.
drpiek
Posts: 589
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
2/26/2015 2:47:30 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 2/26/2015 2:32:43 PM, Harikrish wrote:
At 2/26/2015 12:36:40 PM, drpiek wrote:
At 2/26/2015 12:28:33 PM, Benshapiro wrote:
By objective value I mean definitively desired or preferred over ignorance. Discuss.

Objective means truth not beliefs or feelings. So if I drop an egg and it breaks that is an objective truth. If you think what I did was bad, that is subjective.

If the egg broke, it becomes a fact. It is no more objective or less objective if the egg did not break anymore than if the egg did brake.
Truth does not mean objective. Truth can be relative. Is water a solid, liquid or vapour.?The truth is it is all three depending on the circumstances.

It is you that does not understand the meaning of the term objective. Something is objective when it is truth that is not influenced by how you feel about it. See my other response to you for the full definition, or look it up yourself.

When water is frozen it is objectively solid.
Bennett91
Posts: 4,199
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
2/26/2015 2:49:42 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 2/26/2015 1:16:28 PM, Benshapiro wrote:
If something is valuable, it's useful towards some end.

If human beings have an inherent purpose, whatever is useful towards that end is valuable.

The only possible way for humanity to have an inherent purpose is if God created mankind for a purpose.

Therefore truth can't have any objective value if God doesn't exist.

So humans cant value truth on their own accord? C'mon ben you're like a broken record. Your logic doesn't even follow.

P1 Whatever is useful towards an end is valuable
P2 People can only be useful if God created us to be used for an end
C Truth can't have objective value w/o God.

^^^^ nonsense argument, truth doesn't even appear in your premises. You've yet to even show objective morals or inherent purpose even even exist!! And this is like the 5th thread you've started on the subject and who knows how many times it's been brought up in other threads. Give it a rest.
Otokage
Posts: 2,347
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
2/26/2015 2:54:49 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 2/26/2015 12:28:33 PM, Benshapiro wrote:
By objective value I mean definitively desired or preferred over ignorance. Discuss.

Truth will always be definitively desired over ignorance because ignorance decreases fitness.
Graincruncher
Posts: 2,799
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
2/26/2015 2:58:13 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
Truth is useful from a survival perspective, as a more accurate description of the world is more likely to provide a sound basis for decision-making.
Harikrish
Posts: 11,005
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
2/26/2015 3:00:44 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 2/26/2015 2:47:30 PM, drpiek wrote:
At 2/26/2015 2:32:43 PM, Harikrish wrote:
At 2/26/2015 12:36:40 PM, drpiek wrote:
At 2/26/2015 12:28:33 PM, Benshapiro wrote:
By objective value I mean definitively desired or preferred over ignorance. Discuss.

Objective means truth not beliefs or feelings. So if I drop an egg and it breaks that is an objective truth. If you think what I did was bad, that is subjective.

If the egg broke, it becomes a fact. It is no more objective or less objective if the egg did not break anymore than if the egg did brake.
Truth does not mean objective. Truth can be relative. Is water a solid, liquid or vapour.?The truth is it is all three depending on the circumstances.

It is you that does not understand the meaning of the term objective. Something is objective when it is truth that is not influenced by how you feel about it. See my other response to you for the full definition, or look it up yourself.

When water is frozen it is objectively solid.

How is it objectively solid? When water is frozen it becomes solid. There is nothing objective solid about that. You are using the word objective incorrectly.
Something is not objective when it is the truth.
"Objective truth" is truth that is not influenced by how you feel about it. Get an education.
DarthVitiosus
Posts: 624
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
2/26/2015 5:37:49 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 2/26/2015 12:38:59 PM, Envisage wrote:
At 2/26/2015 12:28:33 PM, Benshapiro wrote:
By objective value I mean definitively desired or preferred over ignorance. Discuss.

Truth has no objective value if God exists either.

/thread

<Embrace nihilism>

Interesting, why are you a nihilist?
WILL NOT BE REMOVED UNTIL:
#1. I have met 10 people worth discussing with on DDO who are not interested in ideological or romantic visions of the world we all live in.
#2. 10 people admit they have no interest in any one else's opinion other than their own.
#3. 10 people admit they are products of their environment and their ideas derive from said environment rather than doing any serious critical thinking and search for answers themselves.
Envisage
Posts: 3,646
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
2/26/2015 5:38:54 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 2/26/2015 5:37:49 PM, DarthVitiosus wrote:
At 2/26/2015 12:38:59 PM, Envisage wrote:
At 2/26/2015 12:28:33 PM, Benshapiro wrote:
By objective value I mean definitively desired or preferred over ignorance. Discuss.

Truth has no objective value if God exists either.

/thread

<Embrace nihilism>

Interesting, why are you a nihilist?

Because I don't think truth has objective value.
DarthVitiosus
Posts: 624
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
2/26/2015 5:40:24 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 2/26/2015 5:38:54 PM, Envisage wrote:
At 2/26/2015 5:37:49 PM, DarthVitiosus wrote:
At 2/26/2015 12:38:59 PM, Envisage wrote:
At 2/26/2015 12:28:33 PM, Benshapiro wrote:
By objective value I mean definitively desired or preferred over ignorance. Discuss.

Truth has no objective value if God exists either.

/thread

<Embrace nihilism>

Interesting, why are you a nihilist?

Because I don't think truth has objective value.

Fair enough. I have more questions but I am not derailing this thread.
WILL NOT BE REMOVED UNTIL:
#1. I have met 10 people worth discussing with on DDO who are not interested in ideological or romantic visions of the world we all live in.
#2. 10 people admit they have no interest in any one else's opinion other than their own.
#3. 10 people admit they are products of their environment and their ideas derive from said environment rather than doing any serious critical thinking and search for answers themselves.