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Rational arguments for an unspecified God?

Skepticalone
Posts: 6,648
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2/26/2015 3:37:53 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
I'm looking for arguments that are logically valid/sound for any God.
The moment you declare a set of ideas to be immune from criticism, satire, derision, or contempt, freedom of thought becomes impossible. - Salman Rushdie

The whole problem with the world is that fools and fanatics are always so certain of themselves, and wiser people so full of doubts. - Bertrand Russell
PolyCarp
Posts: 63
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2/26/2015 4:22:46 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 2/26/2015 3:37:53 PM, Skepticalone wrote:
I'm looking for arguments that are logically valid/sound for any God.

Impossible. Logical arguments without an episemological basis have zero value. If you're not arguing for a specific thing you cannot determine if it is sound or valid. For example

1. marmalade is a city in Spain
2. Spain is a mushroom
3. therefore mushrooms have cities

If there's no definition of any of the terms used in this argument, it is a sound and valid one because it follows logical rules and it doesn't equivocate on any of it's terms.

Really we have to define what God we are discussing before we argue for it.
"Perhaps the atheist cannot find God for the same reason the thief cannot find a policeman"

--G.K Chesterton
Burzmali
Posts: 1,310
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2/26/2015 4:33:36 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
What's the definition of "unspecified God?" You still have to define what a god is before any argument can be made. Otherwise your request is indistinguishable from asking for rational arguments for X.
Skepticalone
Posts: 6,648
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2/26/2015 4:43:04 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 2/26/2015 4:33:36 PM, Burzmali wrote:
What's the definition of "unspecified God?" You still have to define what a god is before any argument can be made. Otherwise your request is indistinguishable from asking for rational arguments for X.

I am trying to avoid arguments that argue exclusively for the Abrahamic god. I realize some Christians/Muslims may believe you cannot argue for god without arguing for their god, and that is fine. If they have valid arguments that do argue for traits specific to Yahweh/Allah I would still be interested. I am just looking for good arguments for god.
The moment you declare a set of ideas to be immune from criticism, satire, derision, or contempt, freedom of thought becomes impossible. - Salman Rushdie

The whole problem with the world is that fools and fanatics are always so certain of themselves, and wiser people so full of doubts. - Bertrand Russell
Skepticalone
Posts: 6,648
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2/26/2015 4:55:09 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 2/26/2015 4:22:46 PM, PolyCarp wrote:
At 2/26/2015 3:37:53 PM, Skepticalone wrote:
I'm looking for arguments that are logically valid/sound for any God.

Impossible. Logical arguments without an episemological basis have zero value. If you're not arguing for a specific thing you cannot determine if it is sound or valid. For example

1. marmalade is a city in Spain
2. Spain is a mushroom
3. therefore mushrooms have cities

You misunderstand the request. I am looking for valid/sound arguments that do not specifically argue for traits specific to the Abrahamic god (ie, a personal god). However, I am not seeking to exclude any god, so any arguments that can argue for Yahweh, Allah, and/or a deistic god, etc., would be acceptable.

For example, the argument from contingency does not argue for a god exclusive to Christianity or Islam, but Pascal's wager pretty much can only apply to an Abrahamic god.

If there's no definition of any of the terms used in this argument, it is a sound and valid one because it follows logical rules and it doesn't equivocate on any of it's terms.

Really we have to define what God we are discussing before we argue for it.
The moment you declare a set of ideas to be immune from criticism, satire, derision, or contempt, freedom of thought becomes impossible. - Salman Rushdie

The whole problem with the world is that fools and fanatics are always so certain of themselves, and wiser people so full of doubts. - Bertrand Russell
Skepticalone
Posts: 6,648
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2/26/2015 4:56:33 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 2/26/2015 4:43:04 PM, Skepticalone wrote:
At 2/26/2015 4:33:36 PM, Burzmali wrote:
What's the definition of "unspecified God?" You still have to define what a god is before any argument can be made. Otherwise your request is indistinguishable from asking for rational arguments for X.

I am trying to avoid arguments that argue exclusively for the Abrahamic god. I realize some Christians/Muslims may believe you cannot argue for god without arguing for their god, and that is fine. If they have valid arguments that don't argue for traits specific to Yahweh/Allah I would still be interested. I am just looking for good arguments for god.

Correction
The moment you declare a set of ideas to be immune from criticism, satire, derision, or contempt, freedom of thought becomes impossible. - Salman Rushdie

The whole problem with the world is that fools and fanatics are always so certain of themselves, and wiser people so full of doubts. - Bertrand Russell
Mhykiel
Posts: 5,993
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2/26/2015 5:46:52 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 2/26/2015 3:37:53 PM, Skepticalone wrote:
I'm looking for arguments that are logically valid/sound for any God.

That's many arguments

Goedel's thoerem of God. Defines God as a being maximally great. (also mathematically shown to be logical and valid)

Kalam Argument defines God as being un-caused outside space and time.

I would say most arguments put forth for God equally justify any monotheistic God, Deist to Muslim.

That life is Intelligently designed can support mono or polytheism. In that the agency can also be a collective.
Skepticalone
Posts: 6,648
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2/26/2015 5:57:08 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 2/26/2015 5:46:52 PM, Mhykiel wrote:
At 2/26/2015 3:37:53 PM, Skepticalone wrote:
I'm looking for arguments that are logically valid/sound for any God.

That's many arguments

Goedel's thoerem of God. Defines God as a being maximally great. (also mathematically shown to be logical and valid)

Kalam Argument defines God as being un-caused outside space and time.

I would say most arguments put forth for God equally justify any monotheistic God, Deist to Muslim.

That life is Intelligently designed can support mono or polytheism. In that the agency can also be a collective.

Thank you for your input.
The moment you declare a set of ideas to be immune from criticism, satire, derision, or contempt, freedom of thought becomes impossible. - Salman Rushdie

The whole problem with the world is that fools and fanatics are always so certain of themselves, and wiser people so full of doubts. - Bertrand Russell