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Surprising Archaeological Find:Proof of Jesus

Bendido
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2/26/2015 9:13:16 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
Surprising Archaeological Find: Proof of Jesus' Existence

http://www.ucg.org...

Have scholars found firm evidence of the existence of Jesus Christ, His earthly father and one of His half brothers? An intriguing find bears their names.

First it was the name of the Roman governor Pontius Pilate found in a monument in Caesarea, Israel, in 1961.

Then came the discovery in 1990 in Jerusalem of an ossuary, a burial box for bones, bearing the name of Caiaphas, the high priest who condemned Jesus. Just recently it appears the most spectacular of all archaeological finds relating to Jesus has surfaced.

Another ossuary has come to light, this one bearing the names of Jesus, James and Joseph, three of the most prominent people in the New Testament. The ancient Aramaic words inscribed on the limestone box state that it belonged to "James, son of Joseph, brother of Jesus."

In late October Andre' Lemaire, a specialist in ancient inscriptions and professor at the Sorbonne in Paris, announced the discovery of the stone container with the extraordinary script. An Israeli collector, Oded Golan, had purchased the box from an Arab antiquities dealer more than a decade ago. Mr. Golan had not thought the artifact important until Professor Lemaire examined it. In fact, although Mr. Golan had read the inscription, he hadn't connected it with the biblical Jesus.

The dealer told Mr. Golan that the box had come from a burial site in southern Jerusalem where a bulldozer had accidentally uncovered a site containing tombs and bone boxes dating to the time of Jesus and James.

Much to the disappointment of archaeologists and scholars, the box was not excavated by a trained archaeologist from the spot where it had rested for the last 2,000 years. Instead it was surreptitiously removed and sold on the antiquities market (as is the case with a high percentage of archaeological finds in the Holy Land). Regrettably, this prevents the examination of the box in its proper archaeological context and the elimination of any possibility of fraud.

Strong evidence for authenticity

Yet fraud seems rather unlikely. Before the announcement of the discovery, the limestone box was subjected to rigorous scientific tests to rule out the possibility. A team of experts from the Geological Survey of Israel examined the box and the inscription under a microscope and found no evidence of modern tools or tampering. Like the rest of the box, the inscription, though wiped clean in parts, has a thin sheen of particulate matter formed on it called a patina. This particular patina shows that it developed in a cave environment and that it is consistent with an age of 2,000 years.

By its very nature the artifact can be dated to within a few decades. Such bone boxes were in use from about 20 B.C. to A.D. 70, when according to Jewish custom the dead were first sealed in caves or rock-cut tombs, then their bones later transferred to a limestone bone box after the body had decayed.

Professor Lemaire further narrowed the dating by verifying that the inscription was in a cursive style used only in the few decades before A.D. 70, when Jerusalem was destroyed by the Romans. Thus the inscription fits the style used around A.D. 62, when James, Jesus' half brother, died.

Hershel Shanks, editor of Biblical Archaeology Review , which announced the discovery, explained that the inscription was reviewed by Joseph Fitzmyer, one of the world's foremost experts on first-century Aramaic and a preeminent Dead Sea Scrolls editor. Professor Fitzmyer was at first troubled by the spelling of the word for brother, because it was a plural form used centuries later. But further research yielded the same form in one of the Dead Sea Scrolls and on another first-century ossuary. "I stand corrected," Professor Fitzmyer said.

A putative forger would have to know Aramaic better than Professor Fitzmyer, which seems rather unlikely. "To my mind," wrote Mr. Shanks, "this is one of the strongest arguments for the authenticity of the James inscription" ( Biblical Archaeology Review , November-December 2002, p. 33).

Many factors pointing in one direction

"It seems very probable," Professor Lemaire concludes, "that this is the ossuary of the James in the New Testament" (ibid.).

What makes the case that this is indeed the ossuary of Jesus' half brother so convincing is the combination of factors that point in the same direction. Dr. Lemaire notes that Joseph (Hebrew Yosef ) and Jesus ( Yeshua , or Joshua) were common names in the A.D. 60s and James (Ya'akov or Jacob) less so, but a brother would not ordinarily be named in an inscription unless he were prominent.

Dr. Lemaire says the likelihood of more than one person named James with a father named Joseph and a prominent brother named Jesus in that precise time period is minuscule.

"It is one thing to have scattered probabilities," explains John Meier, professor of New Testament at The Catholic University of America in Washington, D.C., and an authority on first-century Palestinian Judaism; "it's another thing to have lines of probabilities all converging at one point" (UPI report, Oct. 25).

Mr. Shanks stated that the "clincher" for him was the naming of the brother of the deceased. Of some 800 bone boxes discovered, 233 have inscriptions on the outside. Of these, few are inscribed with the name of a brother"only one other in Aramaic. Mr. Shanks said if one accepts the theory that the deceased was a prominent person associated with him"rather than simply associated because the brother presided over the secondary interment"the probability that the inscription refers to Jesus of Nazareth seems overwhelming.

The life of James

Who was James? Let's consider the intriguing story of this half brother of Jesus.

We first read of James in the New Testament as one of Jesus' half brothers (Jesus was born of Mary, miraculously begotten of God the Father through the Holy Spirit while Mary was a betrothed virgin, as explained in Matthew:1:18-25). Yet Mary and her husband, Joseph, later had other children. In Matthew:13:55-56

we see that some residents of Nazareth asked: "Is this not the carpenter's son? Is not His mother called Mary? And His brothers James , Joses, Simon, and Judas? And His sisters, are they not all with us?" (emphasis added throughout).

During Jesus' life, the Bible candidly reveals that His half brothers did not believe in Him as Savior and Messiah (John:7:5). Yet, after His resurrection, Jesus appeared to His half brother James (1 Corinthians:15:7), who then became a prominent believer. In Acts:1:14 James is pictured, along with his other brothers and his mother,Mary, as original members of the Church. This was the same group that received God's Spirit on the day of Pentecost (Acts:2:1-4).

James later became an apostle and leader of the Jerusalem congregation. He played a prominent role in the conference of Acts 15 (see verses 13-21). Paul later visited James in Jerusalem where he oversaw the elders there (Acts:21:18). In Galatians:2:9 Paul refers to James as a "pillar" of the Church, and in 1 Corinthians:9:5 he mentions that "the brothers of the Lord" were married, which apparently included James. (More of James' life is detailed in "James: Half Brother of Jesus," beginning on page 22.)

James also wrote the New Testament epistle that bears his name (James:1:1). Another brother, Judas or Judah (Matthew:13:55), wrote the short epistle of Jude (Jude 1).

The death of James

The death of James, the Lord's brother"not to be confused with the two original apostles named James (see Matthew:10:2-3

)"is not mentioned in the New Testament. But Josephus, the first-century Jewish historian, does record it.
Bendido
Posts: 421
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2/26/2015 9:13:26 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
He writes: "Festus [the Roman procurator] was now dead, and Albinus [his successor] was but upon the road; so he [Ananas II, the high priest] assembled the Sanhedrin of the judges, and brought before them the brother of Jesus, who was called Christ, whose name was James, and some others, and when he had formed an accusation against them as breakers of the law, he delivered them to be stoned" ( Antiquities of the Jews , Book 20, chap. 9, sec. 1).

Eusebius, a fourth-century church historian, records even more of the details of James' death: "Conducting him [James] into a public place, they demanded that he should renounce the faith of Christ before all the people; but contrary to the sentiments of all, with a firm voice, and much beyond their expectation, he declared himself fully before the whole multitude, and confessed that Jesus Christ was the Son of God, our Savior and Lord.

"Unable to bear any longer the testimony of the man, who, on account of his elevated virtue and piety was deemed the most just of men, they . . . slew him . . . But, as to the manner of James's death, it has been already stated in the words of Clement, that he was thrown from a wing of the temple, [to be stoned] and beaten to death with a club" ( Ecclesiastical History , 1995, pp. 75-76).

Names of other biblical figures found

Although the evidence so far points to the listing of Jesus, James and Joseph on the newfound ossuary as being the same persons mentioned in the New Testament, it cannot be proven with absolute certainty. Perhaps testing methods yet to be developed will be carried out that can further confirm the find.

In the meantime, the find nevertheless appears to be powerful evidence for the accuracy of the Gospel accounts and the literal existence of Jesus of Nazareth, the Son of God, and His earthly family.

And by no means is this find unique; the existence of many biblical figures has been proven by archaeological finds. So far biblical names that have been positively confirmed include Herod the Great, Herod Agrippa, Pontius Pilate, Caiaphas, David, many of the kings of Judah and Israel, and even Jeremiah's scribe, Baruch. Many of these finds have been discussed in our 24-part series "The Bible and Archaeology."

Jesus once said, "If these should keep silent, the stones would immediately cry out" (Luke:19:40). He spoke of His disciples'testimony, but it is interesting that, through the discoveries of archaeology, there are stones that are now figuratively crying out as witnesses to the authenticity of the biblical account. GN
Gentorev
Posts: 2,924
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2/27/2015 1:01:45 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 2/26/2015 9:13:26 PM, Bendido wrote:
He writes: "Festus [the Roman procurator] was now dead, and Albinus [his successor] was but upon the road; so he [Ananas II, the high priest] assembled the Sanhedrin of the judges, and brought before them the brother of Jesus, who was called Christ, whose name was James, and some others, and when he had formed an accusation against them as breakers of the law, he delivered them to be stoned" ( Antiquities of the Jews , Book 20, chap. 9, sec. 1).

Eusebius, a fourth-century church historian, records even more of the details of James' death: "Conducting him [James] into a public place, they demanded that he should renounce the faith of Christ before all the people; but contrary to the sentiments of all, with a firm voice, and much beyond their expectation, he declared himself fully before the whole multitude, and confessed that Jesus Christ was the Son of God, our Savior and Lord.

"Unable to bear any longer the testimony of the man, who, on account of his elevated virtue and piety was deemed the most just of men, they . . . slew him . . . But, as to the manner of James's death, it has been already stated in the words of Clement, that he was thrown from a wing of the temple, [to be stoned] and beaten to death with a club" ( Ecclesiastical History , 1995, pp. 75-76).

Names of other biblical figures found

Although the evidence so far points to the listing of Jesus, James and Joseph on the newfound ossuary as being the same persons mentioned in the New Testament, it cannot be proven with absolute certainty. Perhaps testing methods yet to be developed will be carried out that can further confirm the find.

In the meantime, the find nevertheless appears to be powerful evidence for the accuracy of the Gospel accounts and the literal existence of Jesus of Nazareth, the Son of God, and His earthly family.

And by no means is this find unique; the existence of many biblical figures has been proven by archaeological finds. So far biblical names that have been positively confirmed include Herod the Great, Herod Agrippa, Pontius Pilate, Caiaphas, David, many of the kings of Judah and Israel, and even Jeremiah's scribe, Baruch. Many of these finds have been discussed in our 24-part series "The Bible and Archaeology."

Jesus once said, "If these should keep silent, the stones would immediately cry out" (Luke:19:40). He spoke of His disciples'testimony, but it is interestingthat, through the discoveries of archaeology, there are stones that are now figuratively crying out as witnesses to the authenticity of the biblical account. GN

Jesus, Joseph, and James the younger of the three, were all born of the womb of Mary,
Jesus was the biological son of Joseph the son of Alexander Helios=Heli, who was a father of renown, as Heli=Alexander Helios was the son of Mark Antony and Cleopatra.

Joseph, the son of Heli (A father of renown) is a Hebrew name, It was not uncommon for men who lived in Israel in those days to have three names: one in Hebrew, one in Greek and one in Aramaic, Joseph the son of Heli, was also given the Greek name, "Cleophas" which name in Greek, means "Of a renown father." His Aramaic name was Alpheaus, which also means "Of a renown father."

The catholic Encyclopedia suggests that Alpheaus and Cleophas are one and the same person, whereas in the Subject Guide to Young's Analytical Concordance, Cleophas is said to be the same person Alpheaus.

Alpheaus=Cleophas is the biological father of James the Younger who is the full brother to Jesus, (Born of the same womb and sired by the same father.)

Alpheaus=Cleophas the carpenter, is also the father of Simeon and Jude, but they are not the biological sons of Mary. After the death of James, the brother of Jesus in 62 AD, it was Simon the son of Cleophas who succeeded James to the episcopal throne of the church of the circumcision in Jerusalem.

Jude the son of Alpheaus=Cleophas, was also given three names, Judas, his Hebrew name, Didymus, his Greek name which means "TWIN." and Thomas=Tau"ma, the Aramiac for "TWIN". Thomas Didymus Jude, the half brother of Jesus is the son of the carpenter Alpheaus/Cleophas the second Husband Of Mary the mother of Jesus.

Matthew 13: 55; "isn't he the carpenter's son? Isn't Mary his mother, and aren't James, Joseph, Simon and Judas his brothers?"

Knowing that in ART, Thomas Didymus Jude, the son of Alpheaus/Cleophas, is depicted with a carpenters rule and square, we must ask the question, "Who is the Carpenter to whom Mary was married at that time, when her family consisted of Jesus, James, Joseph, Simon and Judas? Was it Joseph the son of Jacob from the tribe of Judah, who was her first husband? Or was it Alpheaus/Cleophas the second husband of Mary and the Father of James the biological son of Mary and the youngest boy in the family, plus Simon and Jude, who is also called Judas Thomas, meaning twin?

In "The Acts of Thomas, sometime called by its full name, "The Acts of Judas Thomas," 2nd-3rd century CE, "The Apostles cast lots as to where they should go, and to Thomas, Judas, brother to Jesus fell India. Thomas was taken to King Goddophares the ruler of Indo-Pathian Kingdom as an architect and carpenter by Habban."
(
John 19: 25; "Standing close to the cross of Jesus, were his mother, and his mother"s "Adelphe" (Sister, daughter-in-law, close relative) -------(And they were) Mary the wife of Cleophas, and Mary Magdalene, who are the only two women by the name "MARY" who are mentioned, at the cross, the burial, and the empty tomb of Jesus.

One would expect the risen Jesus to appear to the family of Jesus first, and this is exactly what we see.

The first to see the risen Christ, were his Mother, Mary the wife of Cleophas and her "Adelphe" Mary Magdalene, who, although looking straight at him, thought that he was the gardener, until he spoke her name.

The next to who the risen body of Christ appeared, were Cleophas who is also called Alpheas, who is the biological father of James the youngest of Mary's three biological sons, and the husband of Mary, who was walking to Emmaus with his son Simon, 'to another marriage,' who was to inherit the Episcopal throne of the church of the circumcision after his half brother, 'James the righteous,' was killed at the instigation of the same Sadducee sect that had his full brother Jesus killed.

Although Cleophas and Simon walked and talked with the risen body of Christ for some 11 kilometres, they did not recognise him for who he was, until Simon saw the manner in which he broke the bread, Cleophas then returned to Jerusalem, where eleven of the disciples, which included Simon Peter and Simon the Patriot, were cowering in a darkened room, the only one absent that evening when Jesus appeared in that dimly lit room in the form that they recognised as Jesus, was Thomas Didymus Jude another half brother of Jesus, who was called the Twin, although nowhere does the bible say that he was an actual twin or whether he just held a striking resemblance to someone else. But back to Cleophas, who said to the eleven, "He has risen, he appeared to Simon," who was of course Simon the half brother of Jesus, and not Simon Peter or Simon the Patriot

I believe that Judas was called the twin, because he held such a striking resemblance to Jesus, which would suggest that they shared a common Father, Joseph the son of Alexander Helios=Heli, who is also called Cleophas and Alpheaus.
bulproof
Posts: 25,249
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2/27/2015 1:20:48 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
They found a grave containing his bones.
Religion is just mind control. George Carlin
Bendido
Posts: 421
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2/27/2015 1:52:20 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 2/27/2015 1:20:48 AM, bulproof wrote:
They found a grave containing his bones.

wrong:

Acts 2:30-31
30.But he was a prophet and knew that God had promised him on oath that he would place one of his descendants on his throne.
31.Seeing what was to come, he spoke of the resurrection of the Messiah, that he was not abandoned to the realm of the dead, nor did his body see decay.
bulproof
Posts: 25,249
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2/27/2015 3:12:51 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 2/27/2015 1:52:20 AM, Bendido wrote:
At 2/27/2015 1:20:48 AM, bulproof wrote:
They found a grave containing his bones.

wrong:

Acts 2:30-31
30.But he was a prophet and knew that God had promised him on oath that he would place one of his descendants on his throne.
31.Seeing what was to come, he spoke of the resurrection of the Messiah, that he was not abandoned to the realm of the dead, nor did his body see decay.

Nah the DNA tests prove it was jesus.
Religion is just mind control. George Carlin
MadCornishBiker
Posts: 23,302
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2/27/2015 4:05:44 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 2/26/2015 9:13:16 PM, Bendido wrote:
Surprising Archaeological Find: Proof of Jesus' Existence

http://www.ucg.org...


Sorry, I don;t see what's so surprising about it. It was inevitable that proof would turn up one day. If this isn't it, something else will be, and failing al that, Armageddon will be the real clincher.

Of course it is also inevitable that those who do not want to believe will desperately try and discredit it.

Still, truth will out as they say
Gentorev
Posts: 2,924
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2/27/2015 4:08:48 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 2/27/2015 3:12:51 AM, bulproof wrote:
At 2/27/2015 1:52:20 AM, Bendido wrote:
At 2/27/2015 1:20:48 AM, bulproof wrote:
They found a grave containing his bones.

wrong:

Acts 2:30-31
30.But he was a prophet and knew that God had promised him on oath that he would place one of his descendants on his throne.
31.Seeing what was to come, he spoke of the resurrection of the Messiah, that he was not abandoned to the realm of the dead, nor did his body see decay.

Nah the DNA tests prove it was jesus.

The wanker's at it again.
MadCornishBiker
Posts: 23,302
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2/27/2015 4:39:28 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 2/27/2015 3:12:51 AM, bulproof wrote:
At 2/27/2015 1:52:20 AM, Bendido wrote:
At 2/27/2015 1:20:48 AM, bulproof wrote:
They found a grave containing his bones.

wrong:

Acts 2:30-31
30.But he was a prophet and knew that God had promised him on oath that he would place one of his descendants on his throne.
31.Seeing what was to come, he spoke of the resurrection of the Messiah, that he was not abandoned to the realm of the dead, nor did his body see decay.

Nah the DNA tests prove it was jesus.

Sorry, much as I would love it if your were right, where did they get Jesus DNA from? Comparing it to Joseph's would do no Good because Jesus had no paternal DNA.
dee-em
Posts: 6,473
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2/27/2015 5:52:54 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
Firstly, this story is 13 years old. There is nothing new here.

Secondly, the scholarly concensus is that the inscription on the ossuary is a forgery.

Thirdly, most if not all of the claims for authenticity originate from a single source, the Biblical Archeology Review, a magazine that has a vested interest in promoting the biblical aspect of archeology.

Lastly, of the scholars pro authenticity, none have published anything on the James Ossuary in peer reviewed journals.

The tradition of Christian forgery and fakery continues ...
MadCornishBiker
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2/27/2015 6:19:15 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 2/27/2015 5:52:54 AM, dee-em wrote:
Firstly, this story is 13 years old. There is nothing new here.

Secondly, the scholarly concensus is that the inscription on the ossuary is a forgery.

Thirdly, most if not all of the claims for authenticity originate from a single source, the Biblical Archeology Review, a magazine that has a vested interest in promoting the biblical aspect of archeology.

Lastly, of the scholars pro authenticity, none have published anything on the James Ossuary in peer reviewed journals.

The tradition of Christian forgery and fakery continues ...

I have to admit I believe you are right there.

God hid, possibly destroyed Jesus remains, so I doubt they would be that easy to find.

But despite the fakery of false Christians, the truth will out, God and Christ will be found true even if all men should be prove liars, as Paul rightly said.

That is absolutely certain, and none can prevent it.
dee-em
Posts: 6,473
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2/27/2015 6:29:00 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 2/27/2015 6:19:15 AM, MadCornishBiker wrote:
At 2/27/2015 5:52:54 AM, dee-em wrote:
Firstly, this story is 13 years old. There is nothing new here.

Secondly, the scholarly concensus is that the inscription on the ossuary is a forgery.

Thirdly, most if not all of the claims for authenticity originate from a single source, the Biblical Archeology Review, a magazine that has a vested interest in promoting the biblical aspect of archeology.

Lastly, of the scholars pro authenticity, none have published anything on the James Ossuary in peer reviewed journals.

The tradition of Christian forgery and fakery continues ...

I have to admit I believe you are right there.

God hid, possibly destroyed Jesus remains, so I doubt they would be that easy to find.

MCB, you are confused. The ossuary is allegedly of James, the brother of Jesus. There can't be any remains for Jesus since he is supposed to have resurrected himsef and then ascended to heaven! If you buy that fairy tale, of course.

But despite the fakery of false Christians, the truth will out, God and Christ will be found true even if all men should be prove liars, as Paul rightly said.

That is absolutely certain, and none can prevent it.
MadCornishBiker
Posts: 23,302
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2/27/2015 7:02:04 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 2/27/2015 6:29:00 AM, dee-em wrote:
At 2/27/2015 6:19:15 AM, MadCornishBiker wrote:
At 2/27/2015 5:52:54 AM, dee-em wrote:
Firstly, this story is 13 years old. There is nothing new here.

Secondly, the scholarly concensus is that the inscription on the ossuary is a forgery.

Thirdly, most if not all of the claims for authenticity originate from a single source, the Biblical Archeology Review, a magazine that has a vested interest in promoting the biblical aspect of archeology.

Lastly, of the scholars pro authenticity, none have published anything on the James Ossuary in peer reviewed journals.

The tradition of Christian forgery and fakery continues ...

I have to admit I believe you are right there.

God hid, possibly destroyed Jesus remains, so I doubt they would be that easy to find.

MCB, you are confused. The ossuary is allegedly of James, the brother of Jesus. There can't be any remains for Jesus since he is supposed to have resurrected himsef and then ascended to heaven! If you buy that fairy tale, of course.

But despite the fakery of false Christians, the truth will out, God and Christ will be found true even if all men should be prove liars, as Paul rightly said.

That is absolutely certain, and none can prevent it.

No it is not entirely me who is confused.

Ok I may have got teh "owner" of the ossary wrong.

but:

1) Jesus did not and could not resurrect himself, he was dead.
2) his father resurrected him, but not in physical form, in spirit form as Peter points out at 1 Peter 3:18,19.
3)P Jesus ascended, in Spirit form, as he told Mary, to his God and Father.

Despite what those who either don't now the truth from scripture, don't care about the truth from scripture, or possibly both, try to tell you, Jesus was never God and never could be.

Jesus was the specially prepared human body that God son came to earth in to become incarnate and do his father's will.

Don;t worry, you aren't alone. There are millions of others equally confused because of being taught lies such as the Trinity.

However scripture is not confused, despite teh attempts of men, at Satan's behest, to confuse it, and it is very clear that God's was was literally his son being his only solo creation. This son then worked with him and the rest ofc reation was done through him as Colossians 1:16 makes very clear also:

YLT(i) 16 because in him were the all things created, those in the heavens, and those upon the earth, those visible, and those invisible, whether thrones, whether lordships, whether principalities, whether authorities; all things through him, and for him, have been created,

Note, not by him, but through him and for him.
celestialtorahteacher
Posts: 1,369
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2/27/2015 7:21:58 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
It's a fake:
http://content.time.com...

Every relic of Jesus Christ of the Gospel Story will prove to be fakes as Jesus Christ of the Gospels didn't exist in real life. Yeishu ben Pantera existed in real life but his legendary embellishment later as the Jesus Christ of the Gospels is pure literary construction using Old Testament verses and plots wrapped around a core Sayings ("Q") Gospel that probably did filter down from Yeishu's teachings that got him stoned to death for blasphemy and "leading many astray" according to the Talmud accounts.

Pauline Christianity was a Church Father pushed enterprise and had little to do with telling the truthful origins and theology of Jewish Christianity in earliest ancient Hebrew worship of God and the Messiah, that kind of Jewish religion gone with the later priests of Judah's takeover and makeover. See Prof. Margaret Barker's book The Great Angel showing how ancient Hebrews first worshiped God Most High through His Son, Yahweh, as a Great Angel of God. This spiritual relationship was destroyed with Judah's war challenge lie, "Hear O Israel, our God is one", when "Israel" was all the believers in Isis, RA, and EL. The challenge was to meld them together as One God and One Tribe, Israel. Thus capturing the three top gods worshiped in that region of the Near East for the then new Hebrew/Israelite tribal nation. Abrahamic religions are all about capturing pagan gods to serve the Israelite god and Hebrew peoples. Christianity continued this god capturing business by capturing Rome's Invisible Sun with Jesus' new birthday of Dec 25th, always a Sun God's birthday..
JJ50
Posts: 2,144
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2/27/2015 7:35:27 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 2/27/2015 4:39:28 AM, MadCornishBiker wrote:
At 2/27/2015 3:12:51 AM, bulproof wrote:
At 2/27/2015 1:52:20 AM, Bendido wrote:
At 2/27/2015 1:20:48 AM, bulproof wrote:
They found a grave containing his bones.

wrong:

Acts 2:30-31
30.But he was a prophet and knew that God had promised him on oath that he would place one of his descendants on his throne.
31.Seeing what was to come, he spoke of the resurrection of the Messiah, that he was not abandoned to the realm of the dead, nor did his body see decay.

Nah the DNA tests prove it was jesus.

Sorry, much as I would love it if your were right, where did they get Jesus DNA from? Comparing it to Joseph's would do no Good because Jesus had no paternal DNA.

Of course he did, he was ALL human. Mary was got in the family way by Joseph or anther man. The crazy 'virgin' birth nonsense was probably put about to cover the fact Jesus was conceived out of wedlock, which would have been shocking in those days.
celestialtorahteacher
Posts: 1,369
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2/27/2015 7:35:32 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
What would Debate do without me here to correct so many myths spun out around ancient personalities and ancient religious theologies. Probably nothing different as my religious information gathered over 36 years of God-guided research is really aimed at future generations who won't be so highly prejudiced in their traditional belief systems be they Jewish, Pauline Christian, Muhammadan,, or atheist, as these man-made ideologies are beginning their End Times now and will be museum relics themselves for future generations worshiping God properly again in the eternal Celestial Torah Christian way not dependent on eternally lying priesthoods no more morally sound than a bunch of lawyers or used car salesmen. Actually, we can add Reavers to modern religious expression with ISIS crisis showing the ease with which violent religious lunatics come streaming out of the Abrahamic woodwork when they smell blood in the offing. Bloodthirst accompanies all Abrahamic religious where their top god demands bloodshed for appeasement.
MadCornishBiker
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2/27/2015 7:37:35 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 2/27/2015 7:35:27 AM, JJ50 wrote:
At 2/27/2015 4:39:28 AM, MadCornishBiker wrote:
At 2/27/2015 3:12:51 AM, bulproof wrote:
At 2/27/2015 1:52:20 AM, Bendido wrote:
At 2/27/2015 1:20:48 AM, bulproof wrote:
They found a grave containing his bones.

wrong:

Acts 2:30-31
30.But he was a prophet and knew that God had promised him on oath that he would place one of his descendants on his throne.
31.Seeing what was to come, he spoke of the resurrection of the Messiah, that he was not abandoned to the realm of the dead, nor did his body see decay.

Nah the DNA tests prove it was jesus.

Sorry, much as I would love it if your were right, where did they get Jesus DNA from? Comparing it to Joseph's would do no Good because Jesus had no paternal DNA.

Of course he did, he was ALL human. Mary was got in the family way by Joseph or anther man. The crazy 'virgin' birth nonsense was probably put about to cover the fact Jesus was conceived out of wedlock, which would have been shocking in those days.

Wrong again, as always.
MadCornishBiker
Posts: 23,302
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2/27/2015 7:38:49 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 2/27/2015 7:35:32 AM, celestialtorahteacher wrote:
What would Debate do without me here to correct so many myths spun out around ancient personalities and ancient religious theologies.

Enjoy ourselves? lol.
dee-em
Posts: 6,473
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2/27/2015 7:46:50 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 2/27/2015 7:21:58 AM, celestialtorahteacher wrote:
It's a fake:
http://content.time.com...

Every relic of Jesus Christ of the Gospel Story will prove to be fakes as Jesus Christ of the Gospels didn't exist in real life. Yeishu ben Pantera existed in real life but his legendary embellishment later as the Jesus Christ of the Gospels is pure literary construction using Old Testament verses and plots wrapped around a core Sayings ("Q") Gospel that probably did filter down from Yeishu's teachings that got him stoned to death for blasphemy and "leading many astray" according to the Talmud accounts.

I don't often agree with you but you may have something here. What's more these stories were stitched together as gospels late into the 2nd century at the earliest.

Pauline Christianity was a Church Father pushed enterprise and had little to do with telling the truthful origins and theology of Jewish Christianity in earliest ancient Hebrew worship of God and the Messiah, that kind of Jewish religion gone with the later priests of Judah's takeover and makeover. See Prof. Margaret Barker's book The Great Angel showing how ancient Hebrews first worshiped God Most High through His Son, Yahweh, as a Great Angel of God. This spiritual relationship was destroyed with Judah's war challenge lie, "Hear O Israel, our God is one", when "Israel" was all the believers in Isis, RA, and EL. The challenge was to meld them together as One God and One Tribe, Israel. Thus capturing the three top gods worshiped in that region of the Near East for the then new Hebrew/Israelite tribal nation. Abrahamic religions are all about capturing pagan gods to serve the Israelite god and Hebrew peoples. Christianity continued this god capturing business by capturing Rome's Invisible Sun with Jesus' new birthday of Dec 25th, always a Sun God's birthday..
dee-em
Posts: 6,473
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2/27/2015 7:49:52 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 2/27/2015 7:02:04 AM, MadCornishBiker wrote:
At 2/27/2015 6:29:00 AM, dee-em wrote:
At 2/27/2015 6:19:15 AM, MadCornishBiker wrote:
At 2/27/2015 5:52:54 AM, dee-em wrote:
Firstly, this story is 13 years old. There is nothing new here.

Secondly, the scholarly concensus is that the inscription on the ossuary is a forgery.

Thirdly, most if not all of the claims for authenticity originate from a single source, the Biblical Archeology Review, a magazine that has a vested interest in promoting the biblical aspect of archeology.

Lastly, of the scholars pro authenticity, none have published anything on the James Ossuary in peer reviewed journals.

The tradition of Christian forgery and fakery continues ...

I have to admit I believe you are right there.

God hid, possibly destroyed Jesus remains, so I doubt they would be that easy to find.

MCB, you are confused. The ossuary is allegedly of James, the brother of Jesus. There can't be any remains for Jesus since he is supposed to have resurrected himsef and then ascended to heaven! If you buy that fairy tale, of course.

But despite the fakery of false Christians, the truth will out, God and Christ will be found true even if all men should be prove liars, as Paul rightly said.

That is absolutely certain, and none can prevent it.

No it is not entirely me who is confused.

Ok I may have got teh "owner" of the ossary wrong.

but:

1) Jesus did not and could not resurrect himself, he was dead.
2) his father resurrected him, but not in physical form, in spirit form as Peter points out at 1 Peter 3:18,19.
3)P Jesus ascended, in Spirit form, as he told Mary, to his God and Father.

Despite what those who either don't now the truth from scripture, don't care about the truth from scripture, or possibly both, try to tell you, Jesus was never God and never could be.

Jesus was the specially prepared human body that God son came to earth in to become incarnate and do his father's will.

Don;t worry, you aren't alone. There are millions of others equally confused because of being taught lies such as the Trinity.

However scripture is not confused, despite teh attempts of men, at Satan's behest, to confuse it, and it is very clear that God's was was literally his son being his only solo creation. This son then worked with him and the rest ofc reation was done through him as Colossians 1:16 makes very clear also:

YLT(i) 16 because in him were the all things created, those in the heavens, and those upon the earth, those visible, and those invisible, whether thrones, whether lordships, whether principalities, whether authorities; all things through him, and for him, have been created,

Note, not by him, but through him and for him.

Sorry MCB, I'm going on what most Christians believe, not your crazy sect.
Harikrish
Posts: 11,009
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2/27/2015 7:53:21 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 2/27/2015 4:05:44 AM, MadCornishBiker wrote:
At 2/26/2015 9:13:16 PM, Bendido wrote:
Surprising Archaeological Find: Proof of Jesus' Existence

http://www.ucg.org...



Sorry, I don;t see what's so surprising about it. It was inevitable that proof would turn up one day. If this isn't it, something else will be, and failing al that, Armageddon will be the real clincher.

Of course it is also inevitable that those who do not want to believe will desperately try and discredit it.

Still, truth will out as they say

This really blows a hole in your resurrection of Jesus as a spirit. How many have you deceived unwittingly.
MadCornishBiker
Posts: 23,302
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2/27/2015 8:17:36 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 2/27/2015 7:35:32 AM, celestialtorahteacher wrote:
What would Debate do without me here to correct so many myths spun out around ancient personalities and ancient religious theologies. Probably nothing different as my religious information gathered over 36 years of God-guided research is really aimed at future generations who won't be so highly prejudiced in their traditional belief systems be they Jewish, Pauline Christian, Muhammadan,, or atheist, as these man-made ideologies are beginning their End Times now and will be museum relics themselves for future generations worshiping God properly again in the eternal Celestial Torah Christian way not dependent on eternally lying priesthoods no more morally sound than a bunch of lawyers or used car salesmen. Actually, we can add Reavers to modern religious expression with ISIS crisis showing the ease with which violent religious lunatics come streaming out of the Abrahamic woodwork when they smell blood in the offing. Bloodthirst accompanies all Abrahamic religious where their top god demands bloodshed for appeasement.

Youreally are way out with this.

The whole of teh Hebrew Scriptures were based around teh production of teh Messiah.

Jesus was not executed for Blasphemy.

The trial by the Sanhedrin at which he was accused of blasphemy fell flat because they could not get two witnesses to support their lies.

Jesus committed no blasphemy at all.

He was executed by the Romans on an equally false trial for Sedition,, another charge trumped up by his opponents but which actually fit in completely with Isaiah's prophecy of the event.

Everything he taught came from the Hebrew Scriptures, as did the teachings of the Apostles after him.

He worships the same God that the Israelites were supposed to worship but failed to stay faithful to for any length of time despite all Jehovah did for them, and that is why they were allowed to split into two, with 10 tribes being taken into captivity by Assyria, and assimilated into their people, and the other two tribes amalgamating to leave only Judah remaining.

Judah was protected by God, despite their continued unfaithfulness to him, purely and simply to protect the line in which the Messiah was to come, and in fact did come.

After the Christ's successful birth, ministry and sacrifice, Judah was finally completely forsaken itself, it's city taken by the Romans and it's temple destroyed and desecrated. Christ was successful in pulling those few Israelites, from Judah and Samaria, into a new, Spiritual Israel, which eventually became known as Christianity, and by the end of the 1st century had proven just as unfaithful as their Jewish forerunners proved, and continued to prove to be.

Despite all that had been allowed to happen to them, brought on by their own unfaithfulness, including the dissolution of Israel, the destruction of Jerusalem and the temple, and the Diaspora, the Jews, as a group, have still refused to admit their error and repent.

True some individuals have done so, from Jesus time through to today, and they have been accepted in to Christ's new, replacement people on earth.

Because of the continued disobedience of the Jews and their determination to reform and rebuild the temple, when they could, Jehovah took the final step of allowing Islam to permanently desecrate the temple site by erecting the Dome on the Rock there.

After all of that they till insisted on regrouping in what had once been their promised land and creating an imitation state of Israel.

Everything that has happened to them has been the result of their refusing to listen to the warnings of the prophets of old, and still they refuse to listen.

No wonder God called them stiff necked.

However the time is soon to come when those who choose to be faithful to Jehovah, the God of Abraham and Isaac, Christ and the Apostles, will be granted the peace and security they deserve to worship their God in peace and security.

At that time, Jews, unfaithful Christians, and all who fail to obey Jehovah will be done away with, leaving the earth cleansed of all of Satan's works, and ready to be returned to the paradise state it was always intended to be.

The all who died in ignorance of God's ways will be resurrected and given a second chance in much better circumstances, and n bodies such as Adam and Eve enjoyed before the fall with all the advantages they threw away.

The door is still open for all who want to be on God's side and enjoy the benefits of what he has to offer, but it won't be open much longer.
MadCornishBiker
Posts: 23,302
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2/27/2015 8:21:04 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 2/27/2015 7:53:21 AM, Harikrish wrote:
At 2/27/2015 4:05:44 AM, MadCornishBiker wrote:
At 2/26/2015 9:13:16 PM, Bendido wrote:
Surprising Archaeological Find: Proof of Jesus' Existence

http://www.ucg.org...



Sorry, I don;t see what's so surprising about it. It was inevitable that proof would turn up one day. If this isn't it, something else will be, and failing al that, Armageddon will be the real clincher.

Of course it is also inevitable that those who do not want to believe will desperately try and discredit it.

Still, truth will out as they say

This really blows a hole in your resurrection of Jesus as a spirit. How many have you deceived unwittingly.

Nope, it doesn't, if it were true it would support it, and it's not "mine" it is scriptures, coming from God's word, not me.

I have not deceived any. Even if they did find remains of Jesus that would simply be extra proof that he was not resurrected in the flesh, so it would agree even more with what scripture says.
Composer
Posts: 5,858
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2/27/2015 8:34:17 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 2/27/2015 8:17:36 AM, MadCornishBiker wrote:
The all who died in ignorance of God's ways will be resurrected and given a second chance in much better circumstances, and n bodies such as Adam and Eve enjoyed before the fall with all the advantages they threw away.
More of your ideological garbage!

A & Eve YOU already capitulated to admit were Created Mortal hence innately subject to Death!

At 2/23/2015 8:02:21 AM, MadCornishBiker wrote: (Thread: Is the Creation account Literal?)
For once you are almost right.

Yes they were created mortal, but with the potential for eternal life had they remained faithful.

So their bodies enjoyed NOTHING special as you stupidly claimed!

It is manifest that your alleged divine supporters jebus, god & h-s are of no worthwhile value whatsoever in attempting to preach your Psychotic ideology!

Facts remain, you are merely delusional with Psychotic, sexually deviant & suicidal tendencies, culminating with your admission your actual Saviour is your DOG!
PolyCarp
Posts: 63
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2/27/2015 9:00:29 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 2/27/2015 8:34:17 AM, Composer wrote:
At 2/27/2015 8:17:36 AM, MadCornishBiker wrote:
The all who died in ignorance of God's ways will be resurrected and given a second chance in much better circumstances, and n bodies such as Adam and Eve enjoyed before the fall with all the advantages they threw away.
More of your ideological garbage!

A & Eve YOU already capitulated to admit were Created Mortal hence innately subject to Death!

At 2/23/2015 8:02:21 AM, MadCornishBiker wrote: (Thread: Is the Creation account Literal?)
For once you are almost right.

Yes they were created mortal, but with the potential for eternal life had they remained faithful.

So their bodies enjoyed NOTHING special as you stupidly claimed!

It is manifest that your alleged divine supporters jebus, god & h-s are of no worthwhile value whatsoever in attempting to preach your Psychotic ideology!

Facts remain, you are merely delusional with Psychotic, sexually deviant & suicidal tendencies, culminating with your admission your actual Saviour is your DOG!

Are you David Berkowitz?
"Perhaps the atheist cannot find God for the same reason the thief cannot find a policeman"

--G.K Chesterton
MadCornishBiker
Posts: 23,302
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2/27/2015 10:59:17 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 2/27/2015 8:34:17 AM, Composer wrote:
At 2/27/2015 8:17:36 AM, MadCornishBiker wrote:
The all who died in ignorance of God's ways will be resurrected and given a second chance in much better circumstances, and n bodies such as Adam and Eve enjoyed before the fall with all the advantages they threw away.
More of your ideological garbage!

A & Eve YOU already capitulated to admit were Created Mortal hence innately subject to Death!

At 2/23/2015 8:02:21 AM, MadCornishBiker wrote: (Thread: Is the Creation account Literal?)
For once you are almost right.

Yes they were created mortal, but with the potential for eternal life had they remained faithful.

So their bodies enjoyed NOTHING special as you stupidly claimed!

It is manifest that your alleged divine supporters jebus, god & h-s are of no worthwhile value whatsoever in attempting to preach your Psychotic ideology!

Facts remain, you are merely delusional with Psychotic, sexually deviant & suicidal tendencies, culminating with your admission your actual Saviour is your DOG!

Their bodies contained precisely what I have always taught that they claimed.

Both the Angels and Adam and Eve contained the potential of eternal life, it was never guaranteed but dependent, as God made very clear, on their obedience.

That is what I have always taught and always will.

And as always you lie and make yourself look a fool fo r so doing, lol.
JJ50
Posts: 2,144
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2/27/2015 11:09:24 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 2/27/2015 7:37:35 AM, MadCornishBiker wrote:
At 2/27/2015 7:35:27 AM, JJ50 wrote:
At 2/27/2015 4:39:28 AM, MadCornishBiker wrote:
At 2/27/2015 3:12:51 AM, bulproof wrote:
At 2/27/2015 1:52:20 AM, Bendido wrote:
At 2/27/2015 1:20:48 AM, bulproof wrote:
They found a grave containing his bones.

wrong:

Acts 2:30-31
30.But he was a prophet and knew that God had promised him on oath that he would place one of his descendants on his throne.
31.Seeing what was to come, he spoke of the resurrection of the Messiah, that he was not abandoned to the realm of the dead, nor did his body see decay.

Nah the DNA tests prove it was jesus.

Sorry, much as I would love it if your were right, where did they get Jesus DNA from? Comparing it to Joseph's would do no Good because Jesus had no paternal DNA.

Of course he did, he was ALL human. Mary was got in the family way by Joseph or anther man. The crazy 'virgin' birth nonsense was probably put about to cover the fact Jesus was conceived out of wedlock, which would have been shocking in those days.

Wrong again, as always.

And you know the deity knocked up Mary for a fact do you? LIAR!
bornofgod
Posts: 11,322
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2/27/2015 11:44:59 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 2/26/2015 9:13:16 PM, Bendido wrote:
Surprising Archaeological Find: Proof of Jesus' Existence

http://www.ucg.org...


Have scholars found firm evidence of the existence of Jesus Christ, His earthly father and one of His half brothers? An intriguing find bears their names.

First it was the name of the Roman governor Pontius Pilate found in a monument in Caesarea, Israel, in 1961.

Then came the discovery in 1990 in Jerusalem of an ossuary, a burial box for bones, bearing the name of Caiaphas, the high priest who condemned Jesus. Just recently it appears the most spectacular of all archaeological finds relating to Jesus has surfaced.

Another ossuary has come to light, this one bearing the names of Jesus, James and Joseph, three of the most prominent people in the New Testament. The ancient Aramaic words inscribed on the limestone box state that it belonged to "James, son of Joseph, brother of Jesus."

In late October Andre' Lemaire, a specialist in ancient inscriptions and professor at the Sorbonne in Paris, announced the discovery of the stone container with the extraordinary script. An Israeli collector, Oded Golan, had purchased the box from an Arab antiquities dealer more than a decade ago. Mr. Golan had not thought the artifact important until Professor Lemaire examined it. In fact, although Mr. Golan had read the inscription, he hadn't connected it with the biblical Jesus.

The dealer told Mr. Golan that the box had come from a burial site in southern Jerusalem where a bulldozer had accidentally uncovered a site containing tombs and bone boxes dating to the time of Jesus and James.

Much to the disappointment of archaeologists and scholars, the box was not excavated by a trained archaeologist from the spot where it had rested for the last 2,000 years. Instead it was surreptitiously removed and sold on the antiquities market (as is the case with a high percentage of archaeological finds in the Holy Land). Regrettably, this prevents the examination of the box in its proper archaeological context and the elimination of any possibility of fraud.

Strong evidence for authenticity

Yet fraud seems rather unlikely. Before the announcement of the discovery, the limestone box was subjected to rigorous scientific tests to rule out the possibility. A team of experts from the Geological Survey of Israel examined the box and the inscription under a microscope and found no evidence of modern tools or tampering. Like the rest of the box, the inscription, though wiped clean in parts, has a thin sheen of particulate matter formed on it called a patina. This particular patina shows that it developed in a cave environment and that it is consistent with an age of 2,000 years.

By its very nature the artifact can be dated to within a few decades. Such bone boxes were in use from about 20 B.C. to A.D. 70, when according to Jewish custom the dead were first sealed in caves or rock-cut tombs, then their bones later transferred to a limestone bone box after the body had decayed.

Professor Lemaire further narrowed the dating by verifying that the inscription was in a cursive style used only in the few decades before A.D. 70, when Jerusalem was destroyed by the Romans. Thus the inscription fits the style used around A.D. 62, when James, Jesus' half brother, died.

Hershel Shanks, editor of Biblical Archaeology Review , which announced the discovery, explained that the inscription was reviewed by Joseph Fitzmyer, one of the world's foremost experts on first-century Aramaic and a preeminent Dead Sea Scrolls editor. Professor Fitzmyer was at first troubled by the spelling of the word for brother, because it was a plural form used centuries later. But further research yielded the same form in one of the Dead Sea Scrolls and on another first-century ossuary. "I stand corrected," Professor Fitzmyer said.

A putative forger would have to know Aramaic better than Professor Fitzmyer, which seems rather unlikely. "To my mind," wrote Mr. Shanks, "this is one of the strongest arguments for the authenticity of the James inscription" ( Biblical Archaeology Review , November-December 2002, p. 33).

Many factors pointing in one direction

"It seems very probable," Professor Lemaire concludes, "that this is the ossuary of the James in the New Testament" (ibid.).

What makes the case that this is indeed the ossuary of Jesus' half brother so
James later became an apostle and leader of the Jerusalem congregation. He played a prominent role in the conference of Acts 15 (see verses 13-21). Paul later visited James in Jerusalem where he oversaw the elders there (Acts:21:18). In Galatians:2:9 Paul refers to James as a "pillar" of the Church, and in 1 Corinthians:9:5 he mentions that "the brothers of the Lord" were married, which apparently included James. (More of James' life is detailed in "James: Half Brother of Jesus," beginning on page 22.)

James also wrote the New Testament epistle that bears his name (James:1:1). Another brother, Judas or Judah (Matthew:13:55), wrote the short epistle of Jude (Jude 1).

The death of James

The death of James, the Lord's brother"not to be confused with the two original apostles named James (see Matthew:10:2-3

)"is not mentioned in the New Testament. But Josephus, the first-century Jewish historian, does record it.

No bones or caskets are living proof that God used His prophets and saints to testify to His invisible Word to teach us who we are and how He created us.