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Biblical female submission and consequences

dee-em
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3/1/2015 8:39:59 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
The Bible insists women should be submissive to their men. The priesthood reinforce the message and tell women to tough it out when domestic violence rears its ugly head. Great advice when you are being dragged by the hair across a room and being repeatedly punched.

http://www.smh.com.au...

When will the church get over its role in continuing the oppression of women and truly recognize female social equality with men?
celestialtorahteacher
Posts: 1,369
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3/1/2015 9:31:02 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
When Abrahamic religions are museum relics of ancient male patriarchal fascism. All Abrahamic religions attack women's position in society as fallout from their attack on Goddess worship and worshipers. After stripping EL and Yahweh too of wives they both enjoyed when ancient Hebrews were still worshiping God in the Canaanite way, Abrahamics made sure women were stripped of political and economic power in Jewish society, this stripping of power alleviated by Jesus Christ but then reinstalled by Paul who seems to have had a serious mental problem with women. Muhammad of course, wanting to be another Moses, reinstalled a most vicious form of Mosaic Law as Sharia Law with tokenism bits thrown to Muslim women as they are imprisoned literally in cloth by Muslim men and have learned Stockholm Syndrome pleasing of their captors throughout Muslim history.

As long as our world suffers from non-stop Abrahamic religious warfare going on somewhere in the world at all times screwing up peoples' lives and killing innocents, we won't have any feminine energy to offset males out of control as they are now (again). I teach Celestial Torah Christianity which is a modern Gnostic belief system. Only in the Gnostic Christian beliefs was the Divine Feminine honored while the Abrahamics tried their best to crush Her. As if it were possible for human beings to blot out the sun or remove the planet Venus.
Ragnar
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3/1/2015 10:22:02 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 3/1/2015 8:39:59 PM, dee-em wrote:
The Bible insists women should be submissive to their men. The priesthood reinforce the message and tell women to tough it out when domestic violence rears its ugly head. Great advice when you are being dragged by the hair across a room and being repeatedly punched.

http://www.smh.com.au...

When will the church get over its role in continuing the oppression of women and truly recognize female social equality with men?

'This type of situation doesn't happen in our church' Given the statistics on how common domestic abuse is in that area, I wonder if they include the parking lot in that statement.
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dee-em
Posts: 6,473
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3/2/2015 1:02:49 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 3/1/2015 10:22:02 PM, Ragnar wrote:
At 3/1/2015 8:39:59 PM, dee-em wrote:
The Bible insists women should be submissive to their men. The priesthood reinforce the message and tell women to tough it out when domestic violence rears its ugly head. Great advice when you are being dragged by the hair across a room and being repeatedly punched.

http://www.smh.com.au...

When will the church get over its role in continuing the oppression of women and truly recognize female social equality with men?

'This type of situation doesn't happen in our church' Given the statistics on how common domestic abuse is in that area, I wonder if they include the parking lot in that statement.

Yep.

Domestic violence is one of those sleeper issues. People don't talk about it much but it is pervasive in the community. I'm not saying that DV is any more prevalent amongst Christians as a sector of the population. My concern is that the male dominated focus on the Christian family and the pastors giving poor, untrained advice on how to deal with the problem exacerbates the suffering of women. Attitudes need to change and Christianity has a long, long history of being very slow to recognize social issues and adapt itself.
JJ50
Posts: 2,144
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3/2/2015 5:34:16 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
Some religious extremists still believe women should be submissive to the male of the species. Nasty guys who practise this evil garbage should be dragged kicking and screaming by their dangly bits into the 21st century, and realise women are equal to men!
PureX
Posts: 1,528
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3/2/2015 7:23:33 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 3/1/2015 8:39:59 PM, dee-em wrote:
The Bible insists women should be submissive to their men. The priesthood reinforce the message and tell women to tough it out when domestic violence rears its ugly head. Great advice when you are being dragged by the hair across a room and being repeatedly punched.

When will the church get over its role in continuing the oppression of women and truly recognize female social equality with men?

Keep in mind that religions reflect the beliefs and desires of those who hold them. These abusive patriarchal religious views persist because the people who hold to them want it that way.

My point is that I think you are just confusing the problem by blaming it on religion. Because if we could somehow magically erase religion from human consciousness, the same men and women who hold to these abusive patriarchal religions would simply find another form of justification to maintain their way of life.

Religion is the reflection of their mindset, not the cause.
dee-em
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3/2/2015 7:38:18 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 3/2/2015 7:23:33 AM, PureX wrote:
At 3/1/2015 8:39:59 PM, dee-em wrote:
The Bible insists women should be submissive to their men. The priesthood reinforce the message and tell women to tough it out when domestic violence rears its ugly head. Great advice when you are being dragged by the hair across a room and being repeatedly punched.

When will the church get over its role in continuing the oppression of women and truly recognize female social equality with men?

Keep in mind that religions reflect the beliefs and desires of those who hold them. These abusive patriarchal religious views persist because the people who hold to them want it that way.

My point is that I think you are just confusing the problem by blaming it on religion. Because if we could somehow magically erase religion from human consciousness, the same men and women who hold to these abusive patriarchal religions would simply find another form of justification to maintain their way of life.

Religion is the reflection of their mindset, not the cause.

I don't disagree but religion, with its claim to be the upholder of moral values and supposed insight into the human condition, only prolongs the suffering when women do seek help. Read post #4 and the story in the article. Without religion women might have the initiative and courage to act earlier and get out of these abusive relationships.
GamrDeb8rBbrH8r
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3/2/2015 7:48:01 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 3/1/2015 8:39:59 PM, dee-em wrote:
The Bible insists women should be submissive to their men. The priesthood reinforce the message and tell women to tough it out when domestic violence rears its ugly head. Great advice when you are being dragged by the hair across a room and being repeatedly punched.

http://www.smh.com.au...

When will the church get over its role in continuing the oppression of women and truly recognize female social equality with men?

They will stahp it when logic crawls up their @$$es and convinces them to treat women like equals.
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PureX
Posts: 1,528
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3/2/2015 9:33:23 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 3/2/2015 7:38:18 AM, dee-em wrote:
At 3/2/2015 7:23:33 AM, PureX wrote:

Religion is the reflection of their mindset, not the cause.

I don't disagree but religion, with its claim to be the upholder of moral values and supposed insight into the human condition, only prolongs the suffering when women do seek help. Read post #4 and the story in the article. Without religion women might have the initiative and courage to act earlier and get out of these abusive relationships.

But religion does not give or take away initiative or courage. People are doing that to each other. Religion (the appeal to absolute righteousness) is just one of the ways we justify it. People could just as easily use social tradition, or even science to do the same things.

My point is that I think we need to look into ourselves for the solutions to these abuses. Women need to see that they are too often giving their power away and allowing themselves to be victimized. Men need to see that they are using their physical strength to hide and excuse weak moral character. My point is that the solution is self-honesty, not religion or no-religion.
dee-em
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3/3/2015 1:11:36 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 3/2/2015 9:33:23 AM, PureX wrote:
At 3/2/2015 7:38:18 AM, dee-em wrote:
At 3/2/2015 7:23:33 AM, PureX wrote:

Religion is the reflection of their mindset, not the cause.

I don't disagree but religion, with its claim to be the upholder of moral values and supposed insight into the human condition, only prolongs the suffering when women do seek help. Read post #4 and the story in the article. Without religion women might have the initiative and courage to act earlier and get out of these abusive relationships.

But religion does not give or take away initiative or courage. People are doing that to each other. Religion (the appeal to absolute righteousness) is just one of the ways we justify it. People could just as easily use social tradition, or even science to do the same things.

I disagree. When the message you get from the Bible and the pulpit is that women should be submissive to their men and this is reinforced on a continual basis for all of your life, it is going to be hard to break out of that conditioning. That's exactly the message that comes from the personal story of the woman in the news link I provided.

Sure, you can do other things as well such as general education. However, when you have a definite issue, you address it, not worry about what might or might not replace it. That's a defeatest attitude and sounds very much like a form of apology for religion.

My point is that I think we need to look into ourselves for the solutions to these abuses. Women need to see that they are too often giving their power away and allowing themselves to be victimized. Men need to see that they are using their physical strength to hide and excuse weak moral character. My point is that the solution is self-honesty, not religion or no-religion.

See above. You really need to go back and read the woman's story carefully. She tells you the problem and the solution. You seem to be telling us that she has it wrong and you know better. I could make a comment about men purporting to know better than women what is in their best interests, but I'll resist.
PureX
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3/3/2015 7:45:27 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 3/3/2015 1:11:36 AM, dee-em wrote:

I disagree. When the message you get from the Bible and the pulpit is that women should be submissive to their men and this is reinforced on a continual basis for all of your life, it is going to be hard to break out of that conditioning. That's exactly the message that comes from the personal story of the woman in the news link I provided.

I grew up in Catholicism. Was an 'alter boy', went to a Catholic grade school and middle school. Yet I had no problem rejecting those ideas that I did not believe were true or fair. Maybe I'm exceptional, but I doubt it. Because it seemed to me that most of the kids I went to school with ignored all that religious ideology if not outright rejected it.

No one owns our minds. We are not robots. We may have to "act as if" when we are kids because we have no choice, but none of us have to believe anything we don't want to.
dee-em
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3/3/2015 8:05:02 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 3/3/2015 7:45:27 AM, PureX wrote:
At 3/3/2015 1:11:36 AM, dee-em wrote:

I disagree. When the message you get from the Bible and the pulpit is that women should be submissive to their men and this is reinforced on a continual basis for all of your life, it is going to be hard to break out of that conditioning. That's exactly the message that comes from the personal story of the woman in the news link I provided.

I grew up in Catholicism. Was an 'alter boy', went to a Catholic grade school and middle school. Yet I had no problem rejecting those ideas that I did not believe were true or fair. Maybe I'm exceptional, but I doubt it. Because it seemed to me that most of the kids I went to school with ignored all that religious ideology if not outright rejected it.

No one owns our minds. We are not robots. We may have to "act as if" when we are kids because we have no choice, but none of us have to believe anything we don't want to.

Believe me, you are an exception to the rule. Consider yoursef lucky to have a strong will and be born male. Indoctrination works and religion has had all the indoctrination techniques sown up for millennia.

"Give me the child for the first seven years and I'll give you the man."
---- Jesuit maxim
dhardage
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3/3/2015 8:20:47 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 3/3/2015 7:45:27 AM, PureX wrote:
At 3/3/2015 1:11:36 AM, dee-em wrote:

I disagree. When the message you get from the Bible and the pulpit is that women should be submissive to their men and this is reinforced on a continual basis for all of your life, it is going to be hard to break out of that conditioning. That's exactly the message that comes from the personal story of the woman in the news link I provided.

I grew up in Catholicism. Was an 'alter boy', went to a Catholic grade school and middle school. Yet I had no problem rejecting those ideas that I did not believe were true or fair. Maybe I'm exceptional, but I doubt it. Because it seemed to me that most of the kids I went to school with ignored all that religious ideology if not outright rejected it.

No one owns our minds. We are not robots. We may have to "act as if" when we are kids because we have no choice, but none of us have to believe anything we don't want to.

You should really look into the syndrome of abuse before you make such pronunciations. Breaking away is not an easy thing to do, particularly if you've been told all your life that you're the one to blame and no one else will love you if you leave. Talk to a few battered women and ask why they stayed so long. Check out a few case histories of battered families and find out why they stayed with their abuser. It's not a pretty story in any shape, way, form or fashion.
PureX
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3/3/2015 8:54:18 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 3/3/2015 8:20:47 AM, dhardage wrote:
At 3/3/2015 7:45:27 AM, PureX wrote:
At 3/3/2015 1:11:36 AM, dee-em wrote:

I disagree. When the message you get from the Bible and the pulpit is that women should be submissive to their men and this is reinforced on a continual basis for all of your life, it is going to be hard to break out of that conditioning. That's exactly the message that comes from the personal story of the woman in the news link I provided.

I grew up in Catholicism. Was an 'alter boy', went to a Catholic grade school and middle school. Yet I had no problem rejecting those ideas that I did not believe were true or fair. Maybe I'm exceptional, but I doubt it. Because it seemed to me that most of the kids I went to school with ignored all that religious ideology if not outright rejected it.

No one owns our minds. We are not robots. We may have to "act as if" when we are kids because we have no choice, but none of us have to believe anything we don't want to.

You should really look into the syndrome of abuse before you make such pronunciations. Breaking away is not an easy thing to do, particularly if you've been told all your life that you're the one to blame and no one else will love you if you leave. Talk to a few battered women and ask why they stayed so long. Check out a few case histories of battered families and find out why they stayed with their abuser. It's not a pretty story in any shape, way, form or fashion.

I understand all this. I just don't think the origin is religion. I think religion is being abuse by these abusers just as they abuse everything else. The problem is not the religion, it's the abuse.

Some human being like to abuse other human beings. They didn't get this way because religion told them to like it. They are this way because it's who they choose to be, and they use religion because it helps them justify their choice.

The Bible was created by a male-dominated society, and therefor reflects the ancient male view of everything. Of God, of women, or morality, of justice; of everything. Modern men and women should reject this view and over the course of their lives, work out their own understanding of these things. And if they can't or won't do that, then they are likely to become the victims of the views of others. That's just the way it is.

Everybody's got to fight to be free in this world, because there is always someone nearby looking to enslave anyone who doesn't.
dhardage
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3/3/2015 9:01:56 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 3/3/2015 8:54:18 AM, PureX wrote:
At 3/3/2015 8:20:47 AM, dhardage wrote:
At 3/3/2015 7:45:27 AM, PureX wrote:
At 3/3/2015 1:11:36 AM, dee-em wrote:

I disagree. When the message you get from the Bible and the pulpit is that women should be submissive to their men and this is reinforced on a continual basis for all of your life, it is going to be hard to break out of that conditioning. That's exactly the message that comes from the personal story of the woman in the news link I provided.

I grew up in Catholicism. Was an 'alter boy', went to a Catholic grade school and middle school. Yet I had no problem rejecting those ideas that I did not believe were true or fair. Maybe I'm exceptional, but I doubt it. Because it seemed to me that most of the kids I went to school with ignored all that religious ideology if not outright rejected it.

No one owns our minds. We are not robots. We may have to "act as if" when we are kids because we have no choice, but none of us have to believe anything we don't want to.

You should really look into the syndrome of abuse before you make such pronunciations. Breaking away is not an easy thing to do, particularly if you've been told all your life that you're the one to blame and no one else will love you if you leave. Talk to a few battered women and ask why they stayed so long. Check out a few case histories of battered families and find out why they stayed with their abuser. It's not a pretty story in any shape, way, form or fashion.

I understand all this. I just don't think the origin is religion. I think religion is being abuse by these abusers just as they abuse everything else. The problem is not the religion, it's the abuse.

Some human being like to abuse other human beings. They didn't get this way because religion told them to like it. They are this way because it's who they choose to be, and they use religion because it helps them justify their choice.

The Bible was created by a male-dominated society, and therefor reflects the ancient male view of everything. Of God, of women, or morality, of justice; of everything. Modern men and women should reject this view and over the course of their lives, work out their own understanding of these things. And if they can't or won't do that, then they are likely to become the victims of the views of others. That's just the way it is.

Everybody's got to fight to be free in this world, because there is always someone nearby looking to enslave anyone who doesn't.

You still act as if everyone has a choice. Abused children don't and they often become either abusers or abused as adults as well. It's not an easy cycle to break and much of it stems from religion. Is religion the cause? No, you're right, it's not, but it gives the abuser both self justification and make the abused feel as if it's all their fault because they are sinful, unworthy beings. Abuse is a lot easier to overcome if you don't feel like God is on the side of your abuser. Heck, God is an abusive parent, if you really think about it.
PureX
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3/3/2015 9:58:20 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 3/3/2015 9:01:56 AM, dhardage wrote:

You still act as if everyone has a choice. Abused children don't and they often become either abusers or abused as adults as well. It's not an easy cycle to break and much of it stems from religion. Is religion the cause? No, you're right, it's not, but it gives the abuser both self justification and make the abused feel as if it's all their fault because they are sinful, unworthy beings. Abuse is a lot easier to overcome if you don't feel like God is on the side of your abuser. Heck, God is an abusive parent, if you really think about it.

I agree that it's very difficult to break the cycle when we are born into abuse. But that is the burden and the challenge that befalls some among us. And so that is the burden they must overcome. And we should help them to the degree that we can. But until they want to be helped, there is little we can do.

The truth is that we are each given a life, with difficulties. And it's up to us how we will respond to this. I am a recovered alcoholic, and it breaks my heart to see other people suffering and dying from a disease that I know can be overcome. But in the end, it's their life. And for some reason, they are not going to overcome their addiction. Many will never even try. I don't know why.

At some point we have to face our own limitations, and see why they matter, even though it breaks our hearts not to be able to "fix" those we see hurting, and see hurting others. The fact is that we are creating and defining ourselves by the choices we make in this life, and it's an endeavor that seems to be written into the mechanics of the human experience. So although I want to help, and hope for healing, I also have to respect the limitations involved, and other people's right to 'fail'.
dhardage
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3/3/2015 10:03:06 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 3/3/2015 9:58:20 AM, PureX wrote:
At 3/3/2015 9:01:56 AM, dhardage wrote:

You still act as if everyone has a choice. Abused children don't and they often become either abusers or abused as adults as well. It's not an easy cycle to break and much of it stems from religion. Is religion the cause? No, you're right, it's not, but it gives the abuser both self justification and make the abused feel as if it's all their fault because they are sinful, unworthy beings. Abuse is a lot easier to overcome if you don't feel like God is on the side of your abuser. Heck, God is an abusive parent, if you really think about it.

I agree that it's very difficult to break the cycle when we are born into abuse. But that is the burden and the challenge that befalls some among us. And so that is the burden they must overcome. And we should help them to the degree that we can. But until they want to be helped, there is little we can do.

The truth is that we are each given a life, with difficulties. And it's up to us how we will respond to this. I am a recovered alcoholic, and it breaks my heart to see other people suffering and dying from a disease that I know can be overcome. But in the end, it's their life. And for some reason, they are not going to overcome their addiction. Many will never even try. I don't know why.

At some point we have to face our own limitations, and see why they matter, even though it breaks our hearts not to be able to "fix" those we see hurting, and see hurting others. The fact is that we are creating and defining ourselves by the choices we make in this life, and it's an endeavor that seems to be written into the mechanics of the human experience. So although I want to help, and hope for healing, I also have to respect the limitations involved, and other people's right to 'fail'.

By your plan, we just ignore it and let it happen, wish them good luck in their struggle. Sorry, I'm a great believer in an even playing field so I will do what I can and advocate for those who work at that same goal. I want everyone to have the same chance to make their personal journeys without being beaten down by anyone else. Just my opinion, of course, but there you are.
MadCornishBiker
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3/3/2015 2:42:33 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 3/1/2015 8:39:59 PM, dee-em wrote:
The Bible insists women should be submissive to their men. The priesthood reinforce the message and tell women to tough it out when domestic violence rears its ugly head. Great advice when you are being dragged by the hair across a room and being repeatedly punched.

http://www.smh.com.au...

When will the church get over its role in continuing the oppression of women and truly recognize female social equality with men?

Giving to domestic violence has nothing to do with biblical submission.

Biblical submission basically means cooperation.

It also means that in the final analysis it is the man who answers to God for any errors in the family.

Example:

Eve first ate the forbidden fruit and then persuaded Adam to rake some.

But who is held responsible.

Adam is.

Since that is the case it is only fair that in any disagreement which cannot be resolved by discussion and compromise it is the man who gets the final say, since he carries the can for the results.

After al, God created man first, and created Eve for him.

The problem is that too many people want life to be what they want it to be, rather than what it is.

And then they accuse me of not facing reality, lol.

In fact few people really do face reality, they make their own little world wit their own little rules and anything outside it is wrong.

God created this whole shebang, like it or not.

He sets the rules, like them or not.

Deal with it.
bornofgod
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3/3/2015 2:48:24 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 3/3/2015 2:42:33 PM, MadCornishBiker wrote:
At 3/1/2015 8:39:59 PM, dee-em wrote:
The Bible insists women should be submissive to their men. The priesthood reinforce the message and tell women to tough it out when domestic violence rears its ugly head. Great advice when you are being dragged by the hair across a room and being repeatedly punched.

http://www.smh.com.au...

When will the church get over its role in continuing the oppression of women and truly recognize female social equality with men?

Giving to domestic violence has nothing to do with biblical submission.

Biblical submission basically means cooperation.

It also means that in the final analysis it is the man who answers to God for any errors in the family.

Example:

Eve first ate the forbidden fruit and then persuaded Adam to rake some.

But who is held responsible.

Adam is.

Since that is the case it is only fair that in any disagreement which cannot be resolved by discussion and compromise it is the man who gets the final say, since he carries the can for the results.

After al, God created man first, and created Eve for him.

The problem is that too many people want life to be what they want it to be, rather than what it is.

And then they accuse me of not facing reality, lol.

In fact few people really do face reality, they make their own little world wit their own little rules and anything outside it is wrong.

God created this whole shebang, like it or not.

He sets the rules, like them or not.

Deal with it.

Our Creator who planned, created and formed all the illusions for us to observe is to blame for everything that happens in His program called Eternal Life. Adam and Eve blamed each other instead of our Creator. Ever since then, man has been blaming each other instead of our Creator who created everything, including the tree of the knowledge of GOOD AND EVIL.
dee-em
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3/3/2015 5:44:30 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 3/3/2015 2:42:33 PM, MadCornishBiker wrote:
At 3/1/2015 8:39:59 PM, dee-em wrote:
The Bible insists women should be submissive to their men. The priesthood reinforce the message and tell women to tough it out when domestic violence rears its ugly head. Great advice when you are being dragged by the hair across a room and being repeatedly punched.

http://www.smh.com.au...

When will the church get over its role in continuing the oppression of women and truly recognize female social equality with men?

Giving to domestic violence has nothing to do with biblical submission.

Biblical submission basically means cooperation.

Way to go. Redefine words as it suits you. Lol.

It also means that in the final analysis it is the man who answers to God for any errors in the family.

Example:

Eve first ate the forbidden fruit and then persuaded Adam to rake some.

But who is held responsible.

Adam is.

Argument by fairy tale. I love it. I'm convinced!

Since that is the case it is only fair that in any disagreement which cannot be resolved by discussion and compromise it is the man who gets the final say, since he carries the can for the results.

We're talking about physical abuse of women here - domestic violence. It has nothing to do with the occasional squabble between couples. Did you even read the article?

After al, God created man first, and created Eve for him.

More argument by fairy tale.

The problem is that too many people want life to be what they want it to be, rather than what it is.

And then they accuse me of not facing reality, lol.

In fact few people really do face reality, they make their own little world wit their own little rules and anything outside it is wrong.

God created this whole shebang, like it or not.

He sets the rules, like them or not.

Deal with it.

I do. I deal with it by ignoring it as being outdated BS from a male-dominated bronze-age society with customs and practices totally irrelevant to modern civilized life. You deal with it by clinging to the past. Let's see who survival favours.

Be an apologist for domestic violence against women. And when women rise up and complain, you just tell them it's a male God who sets the rules. That's such a compelling argument. Women will flock to your church with neanderthal arguments like this.
bulproof
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3/3/2015 6:01:18 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 3/3/2015 2:42:33 PM, MadCornishBiker wrote:
At 3/1/2015 8:39:59 PM, dee-em wrote:
The Bible insists women should be submissive to their men. The priesthood reinforce the message and tell women to tough it out when domestic violence rears its ugly head. Great advice when you are being dragged by the hair across a room and being repeatedly punched.

http://www.smh.com.au...

When will the church get over its role in continuing the oppression of women and truly recognize female social equality with men?

Giving to domestic violence has nothing to do with biblical submission.

Biblical submission basically means cooperation.

It also means that in the final analysis it is the man who answers to God for any errors in the family.

Example:

Eve first ate the forbidden fruit and then persuaded Adam to rake some.

But who is held responsible.

Adam is.

Since that is the case it is only fair that in any disagreement which cannot be resolved by discussion and compromise it is the man who gets the final say, since he carries the can for the results.

After al, God created man first, and created Eve for him.

The problem is that too many people want life to be what they want it to be, rather than what it is.

And then they accuse me of not facing reality, lol.

In fact few people really do face reality, they make their own little world wit their own little rules and anything outside it is wrong.

God created this whole shebang, like it or not.

He sets the rules, like them or not.

Deal with it.

Careful, there's a sabre tooth roaming the woods.
Religion is just mind control. George Carlin
MadCornishBiker
Posts: 23,302
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3/3/2015 7:09:33 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 3/3/2015 5:44:30 PM, dee-em wrote:
At 3/3/2015 2:42:33 PM, MadCornishBiker wrote:
At 3/1/2015 8:39:59 PM, dee-em wrote:
The Bible insists women should be submissive to their men. The priesthood reinforce the message and tell women to tough it out when domestic violence rears its ugly head. Great advice when you are being dragged by the hair across a room and being repeatedly punched.

http://www.smh.com.au...

When will the church get over its role in continuing the oppression of women and truly recognize female social equality with men?

Giving to domestic violence has nothing to do with biblical submission.

Biblical submission basically means cooperation.

Way to go. Redefine words as it suits you. Lol.

I am not, because that is what it does mean.

The submission of a wife to her husband is the same as the submission of a man to Christ, and the Christ to God.

It should not be harsh or cruel or domineering, but exercised with love and care, just as Jehovah, through his son, treated Abraham when he negotiated with him about Sodom and Gomorrah.


It also means that in the final analysis it is the man who answers to God for any errors in the family.

Example:

Eve first ate the forbidden fruit and then persuaded Adam to rake some.

But who is held responsible.

Adam is.

Argument by fairy tale. I love it. I'm convinced!

No fairytale, scripture, and we are talking about biblical subjection / submission here so it is relevant to the topic.


Since that is the case it is only fair that in any disagreement which cannot be resolved by discussion and compromise it is the man who gets the final say, since he carries the can for the results.

We're talking about physical abuse of women here - domestic violence. It has nothing to do with the occasional squabble between couples. Did you even read the article?

That's not what ti says in the topic title line, and spousal abuse does not come under the heading of biblical subjection / submission. It is simply not allowed.

I am speaking abut what the topic title is, and abuse is not a consequence of it, and has no place in it.


After al, God created man first, and created Eve for him.

More argument by fairy tale.

Again no fairy tale, and the topic title is biblical subjection / submission. so it is relevant.


The problem is that too many people want life to be what they want it to be, rather than what it is.

And then they accuse me of not facing reality, lol.

In fact few people really do face reality, they make their own little world wit their own little rules and anything outside it is wrong.

God created this whole shebang, like it or not.

He sets the rules, like them or not.

Deal with it.

I do. I deal with it by ignoring it as being outdated BS from a male-dominated bronze-age society with customs and practices totally irrelevant to modern civilized life. You deal with it by clinging to the past. Let's see who survival favours.

Be an apologist for domestic violence against women. And when women rise up and complain, you just tell them it's a male God who sets the rules. That's such a compelling argument. Women will flock to your church with neanderthal arguments like this.

If you ignore it you are not dealing with it. You also malign it with your highly inaccurate comments.
MadCornishBiker
Posts: 23,302
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3/3/2015 7:10:17 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 3/3/2015 6:01:18 PM, bulproof wrote:
At 3/3/2015 2:42:33 PM, MadCornishBiker wrote:
At 3/1/2015 8:39:59 PM, dee-em wrote:
The Bible insists women should be submissive to their men. The priesthood reinforce the message and tell women to tough it out when domestic violence rears its ugly head. Great advice when you are being dragged by the hair across a room and being repeatedly punched.

http://www.smh.com.au...

When will the church get over its role in continuing the oppression of women and truly recognize female social equality with men?

Giving to domestic violence has nothing to do with biblical submission.

Biblical submission basically means cooperation.

It also means that in the final analysis it is the man who answers to God for any errors in the family.

Example:

Eve first ate the forbidden fruit and then persuaded Adam to rake some.

But who is held responsible.

Adam is.

Since that is the case it is only fair that in any disagreement which cannot be resolved by discussion and compromise it is the man who gets the final say, since he carries the can for the results.

After al, God created man first, and created Eve for him.

The problem is that too many people want life to be what they want it to be, rather than what it is.

And then they accuse me of not facing reality, lol.

In fact few people really do face reality, they make their own little world wit their own little rules and anything outside it is wrong.

God created this whole shebang, like it or not.

He sets the rules, like them or not.

Deal with it.

Careful, there's a sabre tooth roaming the woods.

Should be interesting when it meets the lion then.
dee-em
Posts: 6,473
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3/3/2015 8:26:34 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 3/3/2015 7:09:33 PM, MadCornishBiker wrote:
At 3/3/2015 5:44:30 PM, dee-em wrote:
At 3/3/2015 2:42:33 PM, MadCornishBiker wrote:
At 3/1/2015 8:39:59 PM, dee-em wrote:
The Bible insists women should be submissive to their men. The priesthood reinforce the message and tell women to tough it out when domestic violence rears its ugly head. Great advice when you are being dragged by the hair across a room and being repeatedly punched.

http://www.smh.com.au...

When will the church get over its role in continuing the oppression of women and truly recognize female social equality with men?

Giving to domestic violence has nothing to do with biblical submission.

Biblical submission basically means cooperation.

Way to go. Redefine words as it suits you. Lol.

I am not, because that is what it does mean.

The submission of a wife to her husband is the same as the submission of a man to Christ, and the Christ to God.

It should not be harsh or cruel or domineering, but exercised with love and care, just as Jehovah, through his son, treated Abraham when he negotiated with him about Sodom and Gomorrah.


It also means that in the final analysis it is the man who answers to God for any errors in the family.

Example:

Eve first ate the forbidden fruit and then persuaded Adam to rake some.

But who is held responsible.

Adam is.

Argument by fairy tale. I love it. I'm convinced!

No fairytale, scripture, and we are talking about biblical subjection / submission here so it is relevant to the topic.


Since that is the case it is only fair that in any disagreement which cannot be resolved by discussion and compromise it is the man who gets the final say, since he carries the can for the results.

We're talking about physical abuse of women here - domestic violence. It has nothing to do with the occasional squabble between couples. Did you even read the article?

That's not what ti says in the topic title line, and spousal abuse does not come under the heading of biblical subjection / submission. It is simply not allowed.

I am speaking abut what the topic title is, and abuse is not a consequence of it, and has no place in it.


After al, God created man first, and created Eve for him.

More argument by fairy tale.

Again no fairy tale, and the topic title is biblical subjection / submission. so it is relevant.


The problem is that too many people want life to be what they want it to be, rather than what it is.

And then they accuse me of not facing reality, lol.

In fact few people really do face reality, they make their own little world wit their own little rules and anything outside it is wrong.

God created this whole shebang, like it or not.

He sets the rules, like them or not.

Deal with it.

I do. I deal with it by ignoring it as being outdated BS from a male-dominated bronze-age society with customs and practices totally irrelevant to modern civilized life. You deal with it by clinging to the past. Let's see who survival favours.

Be an apologist for domestic violence against women. And when women rise up and complain, you just tell them it's a male God who sets the rules. That's such a compelling argument. Women will flock to your church with neanderthal arguments like this.

If you ignore it you are not dealing with it. You also malign it with your highly inaccurate comments.

Just for the record folks, MCB addresses topic titles only. He doesn't bother reading your OP. That means you had better put everything you want to say into 10 words or less so that he is capable of processing it. And don't bother with links. He won't click on them.

Also, if you reference the Bible in any way, watch out. That means you implicitly accept that everything in the Bible is 100% true.

Lol.
dee-em
Posts: 6,473
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3/3/2015 10:02:10 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 3/1/2015 8:39:59 PM, dee-em wrote:
The Bible insists women should be submissive to their men. The priesthood reinforce the message and tell women to tough it out when domestic violence rears its ugly head. Great advice when you are being dragged by the hair across a room and being repeatedly punched.

http://www.smh.com.au...

When will the church get over its role in continuing the oppression of women and truly recognize female social equality with men?

The right of reply:

http://www.smh.com.au...

I found it unconvincing.
MadCornishBiker
Posts: 23,302
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3/4/2015 4:50:13 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 3/3/2015 8:26:34 PM, dee-em wrote:
At 3/3/2015 7:09:33 PM, MadCornishBiker wrote:
At 3/3/2015 5:44:30 PM, dee-em wrote:
At 3/3/2015 2:42:33 PM, MadCornishBiker wrote:
At 3/1/2015 8:39:59 PM, dee-em wrote:
The Bible insists women should be submissive to their men. The priesthood reinforce the message and tell women to tough it out when domestic violence rears its ugly head. Great advice when you are being dragged by the hair across a room and being repeatedly punched.

http://www.smh.com.au...

When will the church get over its role in continuing the oppression of women and truly recognize female social equality with men?

Giving to domestic violence has nothing to do with biblical submission.

Biblical submission basically means cooperation.

Way to go. Redefine words as it suits you. Lol.

I am not, because that is what it does mean.

The submission of a wife to her husband is the same as the submission of a man to Christ, and the Christ to God.

It should not be harsh or cruel or domineering, but exercised with love and care, just as Jehovah, through his son, treated Abraham when he negotiated with him about Sodom and Gomorrah.


It also means that in the final analysis it is the man who answers to God for any errors in the family.

Example:

Eve first ate the forbidden fruit and then persuaded Adam to rake some.

But who is held responsible.

Adam is.

Argument by fairy tale. I love it. I'm convinced!

No fairytale, scripture, and we are talking about biblical subjection / submission here so it is relevant to the topic.


Since that is the case it is only fair that in any disagreement which cannot be resolved by discussion and compromise it is the man who gets the final say, since he carries the can for the results.

We're talking about physical abuse of women here - domestic violence. It has nothing to do with the occasional squabble between couples. Did you even read the article?

That's not what ti says in the topic title line, and spousal abuse does not come under the heading of biblical subjection / submission. It is simply not allowed.

I am speaking abut what the topic title is, and abuse is not a consequence of it, and has no place in it.


After al, God created man first, and created Eve for him.

More argument by fairy tale.

Again no fairy tale, and the topic title is biblical subjection / submission. so it is relevant.


The problem is that too many people want life to be what they want it to be, rather than what it is.

And then they accuse me of not facing reality, lol.

In fact few people really do face reality, they make their own little world wit their own little rules and anything outside it is wrong.

God created this whole shebang, like it or not.

He sets the rules, like them or not.

Deal with it.

I do. I deal with it by ignoring it as being outdated BS from a male-dominated bronze-age society with customs and practices totally irrelevant to modern civilized life. You deal with it by clinging to the past. Let's see who survival favours.

Be an apologist for domestic violence against women. And when women rise up and complain, you just tell them it's a male God who sets the rules. That's such a compelling argument. Women will flock to your church with neanderthal arguments like this.

If you ignore it you are not dealing with it. You also malign it with your highly inaccurate comments.

Just for the record folks, MCB addresses topic titles only. He doesn't bother reading your OP. That means you had better put everything you want to say into 10 words or less so that he is capable of processing it. And don't bother with links. He won't click on them.

Also, if you reference the Bible in any way, watch out. That means you implicitly accept that everything in the Bible is 100% true.

Lol.

For the record that is not entirely true, but the topic title tells us what the topic is, and I address that where possible.

If the topic title does not tell us what the topic is then it is a lie.

Since spousal abuse is not a consequence of biblical female submission / subjection, and is in fact an abuse of it, then it is not part of the declared topic.

If anyone wants to know what biblical submission, subjection is really like, as a JW wife. The last time I did the answer I got was a broad grin and "I love it because my husband has to take the blame". See what responses you get from them. I don't doubt you'll have one knock on your door sometime.

All JW wives are willingly under headship and most appreciate the provision and the load of responsibility it takes off their shoulders.

The trouble is that all too many want the benefits, and then when things go wrong try to palm the responsibility off onto someone else.

Mind you, in my experience most so-called men do that as well.
bulproof
Posts: 25,249
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3/4/2015 5:14:40 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 3/3/2015 7:10:17 PM, MadCornishBiker wrote:
At 3/3/2015 6:01:18 PM, bulproof wrote:
At 3/3/2015 2:42:33 PM, MadCornishBiker wrote:
At 3/1/2015 8:39:59 PM, dee-em wrote:
The Bible insists women should be submissive to their men. The priesthood reinforce the message and tell women to tough it out when domestic violence rears its ugly head. Great advice when you are being dragged by the hair across a room and being repeatedly punched.

http://www.smh.com.au...

When will the church get over its role in continuing the oppression of women and truly recognize female social equality with men?

Giving to domestic violence has nothing to do with biblical submission.

Biblical submission basically means cooperation.

It also means that in the final analysis it is the man who answers to God for any errors in the family.

Example:

Eve first ate the forbidden fruit and then persuaded Adam to rake some.

But who is held responsible.

Adam is.

Since that is the case it is only fair that in any disagreement which cannot be resolved by discussion and compromise it is the man who gets the final say, since he carries the can for the results.

After al, God created man first, and created Eve for him.

The problem is that too many people want life to be what they want it to be, rather than what it is.

And then they accuse me of not facing reality, lol.

In fact few people really do face reality, they make their own little world wit their own little rules and anything outside it is wrong.

God created this whole shebang, like it or not.

He sets the rules, like them or not.

Deal with it.

Careful, there's a sabre tooth roaming the woods.

Should be interesting when it meets the lion then.

You are such a frightened little pissant, just like the cavemen who invented your god.
You're most fervently prayed for armageddon is just the pathetic attempt by you to not die.
You are such a pathetic little coward.
Religion is just mind control. George Carlin
MadCornishBiker
Posts: 23,302
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3/4/2015 5:35:46 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 3/4/2015 5:12:51 AM, JJ50 wrote:
Your sexism knows no bounds! It just goes to prove how very evil that nasty JW cult is!

Not mine, God's, as scripture shows.

If you don't like God's ways, fine, just don;t complain when the consequences catch up with you.

I have to admit I can't help but wonder what is missing from you life that has made you so bitter.
MadCornishBiker
Posts: 23,302
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3/4/2015 5:36:40 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 3/4/2015 5:14:40 AM, bulproof wrote:


You are such a frightened little pissant, just like the cavemen who invented your god.
You're most fervently prayed for armageddon is just the pathetic attempt by you to not die.
You are such a pathetic little coward.

You are welcome to your opinion, but at least I am not afraid of the truth, as you are, lol.