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Atheists & Religions Power

drpiek
Posts: 589
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3/5/2015 2:57:44 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
If you are an Atheist you believe there is no ultimate judgment other than death for all. With that said, then this life is the most important thing possible. For Atheists Good and Bad are subjective and situational. Ultimately the goal for any true atheist would be a good life for them and those they care about. Power over other people would obviously be beneficial in achieving that goal. The two most powerful devices for controlling people are Religion and Government. So, how come atheists do not just leverage the power of religion regardless of their beliefs? Maybe most of them already do, and it"s only the ones who cannot see the value in the power of religion that declare themselves atheist to the public.
dhardage
Posts: 4,545
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3/5/2015 3:15:07 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 3/5/2015 2:57:44 PM, drpiek wrote:
If you are an Atheist you believe there is no ultimate judgment other than death for all. With that said, then this life is the most important thing possible. For Atheists Good and Bad are subjective and situational. Ultimately the goal for any true atheist would be a good life for them and those they care about. Power over other people would obviously be beneficial in achieving that goal. The two most powerful devices for controlling people are Religion and Government. So, how come atheists do not just leverage the power of religion regardless of their beliefs? Maybe most of them already do, and it"s only the ones who cannot see the value in the power of religion that declare themselves atheist to the public.

" Maybe most of them already do, and it"s only the ones who cannot see the value in the power of religion that declare themselves atheist to the public."

How do you think all of those televangelists live like kings? They sure aren't giving the money donated to them to the poor. Glad someone sees through it.
RuvDraba
Posts: 6,033
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3/5/2015 3:46:09 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 3/5/2015 2:57:44 PM, drpiek wrote:
If you are an Atheist you believe there is no ultimate judgment other than death for all.

Define 'ultimate'. History and society for example, can pass judgement on people, and often do. If, as Napoleon has said, men will die for ribbons, why can't atheists care for example, about how future generations may judge them?

With that said, then this life is the most important thing possible.

What about the lives of one's children or future generations? What about the preservation of environment or species? What about the legacy of knowledge to possible species beyond this planet?

For Atheists Good and Bad are subjective and situational.

Three problems with this:

1. Atheism isn't itself a doctrine but a rejection of doctrine, so atheists may adhere to various moral doctrines independently of their religious beliefs;
2. When you played atheist, several atheists (myself included) told you it was a very insipid and self-absorbed rendition. Nevertheless, you seem to have ignored this feedback and projected your own interpretation of atheism onto all atheists;
3. Absent any doctrinal knowledge or special insight, how about doing atheists the courtesy of asking a question instead of putting words into their mouths?

how come atheists do not just leverage the power of religion regardless of their beliefs?

For me, it's a mixture of personal reaction and morality. I find theistic behaviour personally distasteful, and also believe theism is bad for people. I don't like encouraging harm, or benefiting from harm done to others. I suppose I might benefit personally by pretending to some faith (many atheists in public office in the US are obliged to do this due to discrimination, for example -- much as mixed-race blacks used to do it in the early 20th century), but for me the benefit isn't worth the moral or emotional discomfort.

At this point, I'd normally say "I hope that helps", Dr P, but what I really want to say here is: please check your privilege and get a clue.
drpiek
Posts: 589
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3/5/2015 7:40:13 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 3/5/2015 3:46:09 PM, RuvDraba wrote:
At 3/5/2015 2:57:44 PM, drpiek wrote:
If you are an Atheist you believe there is no ultimate judgment other than death for all.

Define 'ultimate'. History and society for example, can pass judgement on people, and often do. If, as Napoleon has said, men will die for ribbons, why can't atheists care for example, about how future generations may judge them?

With that said, then this life is the most important thing possible.

What about the lives of one's children or future generations? What about the preservation of environment or species? What about the legacy of knowledge to possible species beyond this planet?

For Atheists Good and Bad are subjective and situational.

Three problems with this:

1. Atheism isn't itself a doctrine but a rejection of doctrine, so atheists may adhere to various moral doctrines independently of their religious beliefs;
2. When you played atheist, several atheists (myself included) told you it was a very insipid and self-absorbed rendition. Nevertheless, you seem to have ignored this feedback and projected your own interpretation of atheism onto all atheists;
3. Absent any doctrinal knowledge or special insight, how about doing atheists the courtesy of asking a question instead of putting words into their mouths?

how come atheists do not just leverage the power of religion regardless of their beliefs?

For me, it's a mixture of personal reaction and morality. I find theistic behaviour personally distasteful, and also believe theism is bad for people. I don't like encouraging harm, or benefiting from harm done to others. I suppose I might benefit personally by pretending to some faith (many atheists in public office in the US are obliged to do this due to discrimination, for example -- much as mixed-race blacks used to do it in the early 20th century), but for me the benefit isn't worth the moral or emotional discomfort.

At this point, I'd normally say "I hope that helps", Dr P, but what I really want to say here is: please check your privilege and get a clue.

Thanks for the feedback.