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The Christian Creation account

Skepticalone
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3/7/2015 11:50:58 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
This post is directed to Christians who believe the Creation account is more or less accurate and will apply to views of a literal creation/seven distinct periods of time equally. If you hold the creation account is metaphorical, then #3 might interest you.

The Biblical god is said to be a perfect, omnipotent, omniscient, and an eternal being that spoke all of creation into existence over a period of six days/six periods of time. I have three questions in regards to this:

1. Why did it take so long?
He is all-powerful. He could have popped all of creation into existence with the snap of his fingers, yet we have this extended creation process with no audience. Why the dramatic reveal? I realize this is fairly subjective, but I thought it worth mentioning as I would like to hear your thoughts.

2. Why did he need to rest?!
Was his power running low after this exertion? That would seem contrary to the nature to an omnipotent being.

3. What was the purpose of creating the universe?
I believe the common answer from believers is for "His glorification", but I find this to be a problematic answer. Why did an all powerful being need or want glorification? A perfect being would have no use for this. Also, what disturbed his previous state of equilibrium and possessed him (no pun intended) to begin creating? Can a perfect being become bored or lonely? I don't think so - that would imply imperfection - so, I would like to hear your alternative explanations.

I am of the opinion these issues would point to a flaws in man-made story of origins, but I could be wrong. Let's hear what you have to say about it.
This thread is like eavesdropping on a conversation in a mental asylum. - Bulproof

You can call your invisible friends whatever you like. - Desmac

What the hell kind of coked up sideshow has this thread turned into. - Casten
bornofgod
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3/8/2015 3:08:03 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 3/7/2015 11:50:58 PM, Skepticalone wrote:
This post is directed to Christians who believe the Creation account is more or less accurate and will apply to views of a literal creation/seven distinct periods of time equally. If you hold the creation account is metaphorical, then #3 might interest you.

The Biblical god is said to be a perfect, omnipotent, omniscient, and an eternal being that spoke all of creation into existence over a period of six days/six periods of time. I have three questions in regards to this:

1. Why did it take so long?
He is all-powerful. He could have popped all of creation into existence with the snap of his fingers, yet we have this extended creation process with no audience. Why the dramatic reveal? I realize this is fairly subjective, but I thought it worth mentioning as I would like to hear your thoughts.

2. Why did he need to rest?!
Was his power running low after this exertion? That would seem contrary to the nature to an omnipotent being.

3. What was the purpose of creating the universe?
I believe the common answer from believers is for "His glorification", but I find this to be a problematic answer. Why did an all powerful being need or want glorification? A perfect being would have no use for this. Also, what disturbed his previous state of equilibrium and possessed him (no pun intended) to begin creating? Can a perfect being become bored or lonely? I don't think so - that would imply imperfection - so, I would like to hear your alternative explanations.

I am of the opinion these issues would point to a flaws in man-made story of origins, but I could be wrong. Let's hear what you have to say about it.

You're asking Christians to lie to you. Did you know that?
EtrnlVw
Posts: 2,307
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3/8/2015 7:27:35 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 3/7/2015 11:50:58 PM, Skepticalone wrote:
This post is directed to Christians who believe the Creation account is more or less accurate and will apply to views of a literal creation/seven distinct periods of time equally. If you hold the creation account is metaphorical, then #3 might interest you.

I've been reading scripture of my own accord since I was a young kid, IDK why it just interested me lol, I have always believed in God and it is just something that is a part of me but anyway even when I was a young kid never did it ever cross my mind that the creation story in Genesis was meant to be some literal scientific perfect description of what God did, it is a PICTURE of what God did, it is an idea meant to produce simple images into the mind of the reader. Once you get used to the way the Bible uses different forms of writing and how numbers have meaning and how it uses imagery and analogies it's really very simple I think some people are missing the fact that the scriptures weave in and out between literal statements visions symbols and parables, it's not a mistake it's just the way they communicated. The Bible is also not necessarily perfect in a physical sense but it's spiritually perfect and that is the focus within all the accounts and stories, it's projecting spiritual truths, lessons and principles through the hands of faulty men.

The Biblical god is said to be a perfect, omnipotent, omniscient, and an eternal being that spoke all of creation into existence over a period of six days/six periods of time. I have three questions in regards to this:

1. Why did it take so long?
He is all-powerful. He could have popped all of creation into existence with the snap of his fingers, yet we have this extended creation process with no audience. Why the dramatic reveal? I realize this is fairly subjective, but I thought it worth mentioning as I would like to hear your thoughts.

Why do you assume that just because He is God that He can just "pop" things into existence? When God creates there is thought and function behind it, things don't just magically appear out of nothing, God arranges things and has an intelligent approach. When we study our physical world we see that in science, how we can break down what it's components are and how it operates. God created the physical world to maintain and function independently.
When the scripture says for example "God says let there be light" and there was light it is simply a picture of what God did, it doesn't mean it just popped out of nowhere once again it's simple imagery, instead of the scripture explaining things in boring lengthy detail explaining exactly how God did it rather it just says what God did. It just gives us a simple model of creation, simple to where a kid to get could understand it.

2. Why did he need to rest?!
Was his power running low after this exertion? That would seem contrary to the nature to an omnipotent being.

Lol really? Come on you have to know it doesn't mean God needed a nap! It's symbolic, numbers have meaning and usually some purpose. The 6 day thing and the day of rest IS SIMPLY a model!

3. What was the purpose of creating the universe?
I believe the common answer from believers is for "His glorification", but I find this to be a problematic answer. Why did an all powerful being need or want glorification? A perfect being would have no use for this. Also, what disturbed his previous state of equilibrium and possessed him (no pun intended) to begin creating? Can a perfect being become bored or lonely? I don't think so - that would imply imperfection - so, I would like to hear your alternative explanations.

Well it's hard for us to imagine anything outside of what we know of Earth and existence but who could possibly know what a God has been doing all this time, maybe He does all kinds of things, maybe He has, been and will continue to create. If you study scripture there are all sorts of spiritual beings and creatures.
I think that is precisely the point, I think God is a creative Person to say the least sometimes I think we overlook that but God is extremely creative if you really get a good look around. The diversity and levels of knowledge of just our physical world are astounding, not to mention the spirit and eternity, the spirit has much more dimension and depth.
I think God created the universe for several reasons but not just for "glorification" I agree with you I don't think that's the bottom line although we should give God glory, I think that is rightfully placed. But I think God loves fellowship more than just glorifying Himself, I think He desires a connection with creatures that are completely independent from Himself, in other words an intelligent free thinking being choosing Him. Why not? You say how can an "all-powerful" God need this? I say how could He NOT?

I am of the opinion these issues would point to a flaws in man-made story of origins, but I could be wrong. Let's hear what you have to say about it.
JJ50
Posts: 2,144
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3/8/2015 7:30:33 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
I doubt many mainstream Christians believe the Biblical creation accounts have any validity, you have to be pretty gullible to be a Biblical literalist.
EtrnlVw
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3/8/2015 7:43:03 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 3/8/2015 7:30:33 AM, JJ50 wrote:
I doubt many mainstream Christians believe the Biblical creation accounts have any validity, you have to be pretty gullible to be a Biblical literalist.

Validity? The idea of creation has plenty of validity and that is what the creation account does, it gives us an idea of creation. It's not a science book nor was it written by any modern scientist, it is a picture of what God created not a scientific examination of how He created it. Again there is nothing about the idea of creation that lacks "validity".
JJ50
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3/8/2015 9:28:39 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 3/8/2015 7:43:03 AM, EtrnlVw wrote:
At 3/8/2015 7:30:33 AM, JJ50 wrote:
I doubt many mainstream Christians believe the Biblical creation accounts have any validity, you have to be pretty gullible to be a Biblical literalist.

Validity? The idea of creation has plenty of validity and that is what the creation account does, it gives us an idea of creation. It's not a science book nor was it written by any modern scientist, it is a picture of what God created not a scientific examination of how He created it. Again there is nothing about the idea of creation that lacks "validity".

As there is no evidence any deity exists, let alone the evil one depicted in the Bible, of course it lacks any validity!
Skepticalone
Posts: 6,095
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3/8/2015 10:40:04 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 3/8/2015 7:27:35 AM, EtrnlVw wrote:
At 3/7/2015 11:50:58 PM, Skepticalone wrote:
This post is directed to Christians who believe the Creation account is more or less accurate and will apply to views of a literal creation/seven distinct periods of time equally. If you hold the creation account is metaphorical, then #3 might interest you.

I've been reading scripture of my own accord since I was a young kid, IDK why it just interested me lol, I have always believed in God and it is just something that is a part of me but anyway even when I was a young kid never did it ever cross my mind that the creation story in Genesis was meant to be some literal scientific perfect description of what God did, it is a PICTURE of what God did, it is an idea meant to produce simple images into the mind of the reader. Once you get used to the way the Bible uses different forms of writing and how numbers have meaning and how it uses imagery and analogies it's really very simple I think some people are missing the fact that the scriptures weave in and out between literal statements visions symbols and parables, it's not a mistake it's just the way they communicated. The Bible is also not necessarily perfect in a physical sense but it's spiritually perfect and that is the focus within all the accounts and stories, it's projecting spiritual truths, lessons and principles through the hands of faulty men.

The Biblical god is said to be a perfect, omnipotent, omniscient, and an eternal being that spoke all of creation into existence over a period of six days/six periods of time. I have three questions in regards to this:

1. Why did it take so long?
He is all-powerful. He could have popped all of creation into existence with the snap of his fingers, yet we have this extended creation process with no audience. Why the dramatic reveal? I realize this is fairly subjective, but I thought it worth mentioning as I would like to hear your thoughts.

Why do you assume that just because He is God that He can just "pop" things into existence? When God creates there is thought and function behind it, things don't just magically appear out of nothing, God arranges things and has an intelligent approach. When we study our physical world we see that in science, how we can break down what it's components are and how it operates. God created the physical world to maintain and function independently.

Well, I can see you're speaking from a position of certainty. I would point out unless you have direct two way communication with your god that your certainty is irrational, and maybe even then. However, it is true I assume an all powerful being should be able to "pop" things into existence. Why do you assume otherwise?

When the scripture says for example "God says let there be light" and there was light it is simply a picture of what God did, it doesn't mean it just popped out of nowhere once again it's simple imagery, instead of the scripture explaining things in boring lengthy detail explaining exactly how God did it rather it just says what God did. It just gives us a simple model of creation, simple to where a kid to get could understand it.

2. Why did he need to rest?!
Was his power running low after this exertion? That would seem contrary to the nature to an omnipotent being.

Lol really? Come on you have to know it doesn't mean God needed a nap! It's symbolic, numbers have meaning and usually some purpose. The 6 day thing and the day of rest IS SIMPLY a model!

This question wasn't directed at those who hold a metaphorical view of Creation. If only I had warned you away in some fashion.... ;-)

3. What was the purpose of creating the universe?
I believe the common answer from believers is for "His glorification", but I find this to be a problematic answer. Why did an all powerful being need or want glorification? A perfect being would have no use for this. Also, what disturbed his previous state of equilibrium and possessed him (no pun intended) to begin creating? Can a perfect being become bored or lonely? I don't think so - that would imply imperfection - so, I would like to hear your alternative explanations.

Well it's hard for us to imagine anything outside of what we know of Earth and existence but who could possibly know what a God has been doing all this time, maybe He does all kinds of things, maybe He has, been and will continue to create. If you study scripture there are all sorts of spiritual beings and creatures.
I think that is precisely the point, I think God is a creative Person to say the least sometimes I think we overlook that but God is extremely creative if you really get a good look around. The diversity and levels of knowledge of just our physical world are astounding, not to mention the spirit and eternity, the spirit has much more dimension and depth.
I think God created the universe for several reasons but not just for "glorification" I agree with you I don't think that's the bottom line although we should give God glory, I think that is rightfully placed. But I think God loves fellowship more than just glorifying Himself, I think He desires a connection with creatures that are completely independent from Himself, in other words an intelligent free thinking being choosing Him. Why not? You say how can an "all-powerful" God need this? I say how could He NOT?

A perfect being by definition does not need anything.

I am of the opinion these issues would point to a flaws in man-made story of origins, but I could be wrong. Let's hear what you have to say about it.
This thread is like eavesdropping on a conversation in a mental asylum. - Bulproof

You can call your invisible friends whatever you like. - Desmac

What the hell kind of coked up sideshow has this thread turned into. - Casten
12_13
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3/8/2015 12:44:30 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 3/7/2015 11:50:58 PM, Skepticalone wrote:
1. Why did it take so long?

Long is very subjective thing. In my opinion it didn"t take long time. And I don"t see why things should have popped up instantly at the same time.

2. Why did he need to rest?!
Was his power running low after this exertion?

Rest can be understood also to mean that he didn"t create after he had created what was intend to be created. Same way as you can put for example hammer to rest, when you don"t use it. Hammer doesn"t need rest, but still the saying is that it is put to rest.

3. What was the purpose of creating the universe?

I believe it is love.
Skepticalone
Posts: 6,095
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3/8/2015 12:59:04 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 3/8/2015 12:44:30 PM, 12_13 wrote:
At 3/7/2015 11:50:58 PM, Skepticalone wrote:
1. Why did it take so long?

Long is very subjective thing. In my opinion it didn"t take long time. And I don"t see why things should have popped up instantly at the same time.

2. Why did he need to rest?!
Was his power running low after this exertion?

Rest can be understood also to mean that he didn"t create after he had created what was intend to be created. Same way as you can put for example hammer to rest, when you don"t use it. Hammer doesn"t need rest, but still the saying is that it is put to rest.

You're taking a metaphorical meaning to this then? If so, then this question didn't really apply to you.

3. What was the purpose of creating the universe?

I believe it is love.

A need would suggest a being that was not perfect.
This thread is like eavesdropping on a conversation in a mental asylum. - Bulproof

You can call your invisible friends whatever you like. - Desmac

What the hell kind of coked up sideshow has this thread turned into. - Casten
ChristianPunk
Posts: 1,710
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3/8/2015 1:20:38 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 3/7/2015 11:50:58 PM, Skepticalone wrote:
This post is directed to Christians who believe the Creation account is more or less accurate and will apply to views of a literal creation/seven distinct periods of time equally. If you hold the creation account is metaphorical, then #3 might interest you.

The Biblical god is said to be a perfect, omnipotent, omniscient, and an eternal being that spoke all of creation into existence over a period of six days/six periods of time. I have three questions in regards to this:

1. Why did it take so long?
He is all-powerful. He could have popped all of creation into existence with the snap of his fingers, yet we have this extended creation process with no audience. Why the dramatic reveal? I realize this is fairly subjective, but I thought it worth mentioning as I would like to hear your thoughts.

2. Why did he need to rest?!
Was his power running low after this exertion? That would seem contrary to the nature to an omnipotent being.

3. What was the purpose of creating the universe?
I believe the common answer from believers is for "His glorification", but I find this to be a problematic answer. Why did an all powerful being need or want glorification? A perfect being would have no use for this. Also, what disturbed his previous state of equilibrium and possessed him (no pun intended) to begin creating? Can a perfect being become bored or lonely? I don't think so - that would imply imperfection - so, I would like to hear your alternative explanations.

I am of the opinion these issues would point to a flaws in man-made story of origins, but I could be wrong. Let's hear what you have to say about it.

1. Not so sure why it took so long. Maybe He wanted us to experience some of creation being created or growing.

2. He didn't. That's why I think that's a metaphor to label the 7 day work week.

3. A question i'll ask God in the end.
Skepticalone
Posts: 6,095
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3/8/2015 2:45:42 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 3/8/2015 1:20:38 PM, ChristianPunk wrote:
At 3/7/2015 11:50:58 PM, Skepticalone wrote:
This post is directed to Christians who believe the Creation account is more or less accurate and will apply to views of a literal creation/seven distinct periods of time equally. If you hold the creation account is metaphorical, then #3 might interest you.

The Biblical god is said to be a perfect, omnipotent, omniscient, and an eternal being that spoke all of creation into existence over a period of six days/six periods of time. I have three questions in regards to this:

1. Why did it take so long?
He is all-powerful. He could have popped all of creation into existence with the snap of his fingers, yet we have this extended creation process with no audience. Why the dramatic reveal? I realize this is fairly subjective, but I thought it worth mentioning as I would like to hear your thoughts.

2. Why did he need to rest?!
Was his power running low after this exertion? That would seem contrary to the nature to an omnipotent being.

3. What was the purpose of creating the universe?
I believe the common answer from believers is for "His glorification", but I find this to be a problematic answer. Why did an all powerful being need or want glorification? A perfect being would have no use for this. Also, what disturbed his previous state of equilibrium and possessed him (no pun intended) to begin creating? Can a perfect being become bored or lonely? I don't think so - that would imply imperfection - so, I would like to hear your alternative explanations.

I am of the opinion these issues would point to a flaws in man-made story of origins, but I could be wrong. Let's hear what you have to say about it.

1. Not so sure why it took so long. Maybe He wanted us to experience some of creation being created or growing.

I don't really have an issue with this explanation except that I am not sure how we have experienced creation being created. There was no one there to watch if such an event actually took place.

2. He didn't. That's why I think that's a metaphor to label the 7 day work week.

3. A question i'll ask God in the end.
This thread is like eavesdropping on a conversation in a mental asylum. - Bulproof

You can call your invisible friends whatever you like. - Desmac

What the hell kind of coked up sideshow has this thread turned into. - Casten
ChristianPunk
Posts: 1,710
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3/8/2015 2:50:55 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 3/8/2015 2:45:42 PM, Skepticalone wrote:
At 3/8/2015 1:20:38 PM, ChristianPunk wrote:
At 3/7/2015 11:50:58 PM, Skepticalone wrote:
This post is directed to Christians who believe the Creation account is more or less accurate and will apply to views of a literal creation/seven distinct periods of time equally. If you hold the creation account is metaphorical, then #3 might interest you.

The Biblical god is said to be a perfect, omnipotent, omniscient, and an eternal being that spoke all of creation into existence over a period of six days/six periods of time. I have three questions in regards to this:

1. Why did it take so long?
He is all-powerful. He could have popped all of creation into existence with the snap of his fingers, yet we have this extended creation process with no audience. Why the dramatic reveal? I realize this is fairly subjective, but I thought it worth mentioning as I would like to hear your thoughts.

2. Why did he need to rest?!
Was his power running low after this exertion? That would seem contrary to the nature to an omnipotent being.

3. What was the purpose of creating the universe?
I believe the common answer from believers is for "His glorification", but I find this to be a problematic answer. Why did an all powerful being need or want glorification? A perfect being would have no use for this. Also, what disturbed his previous state of equilibrium and possessed him (no pun intended) to begin creating? Can a perfect being become bored or lonely? I don't think so - that would imply imperfection - so, I would like to hear your alternative explanations.

I am of the opinion these issues would point to a flaws in man-made story of origins, but I could be wrong. Let's hear what you have to say about it.

1. Not so sure why it took so long. Maybe He wanted us to experience some of creation being created or growing.

I don't really have an issue with this explanation except that I am not sure how we have experienced creation being created. There was no one there to watch if such an event actually took place.

2. He didn't. That's why I think that's a metaphor to label the 7 day work week.

3. A question i'll ask God in the end.

Example. Plants growing and children growing. People get a joy at watching these things develop from small to big. That's what I am referring to.
Skepticalone
Posts: 6,095
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3/8/2015 2:53:35 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 3/8/2015 2:50:55 PM, ChristianPunk wrote:
At 3/8/2015 2:45:42 PM, Skepticalone wrote:
At 3/8/2015 1:20:38 PM, ChristianPunk wrote:
At 3/7/2015 11:50:58 PM, Skepticalone wrote:
This post is directed to Christians who believe the Creation account is more or less accurate and will apply to views of a literal creation/seven distinct periods of time equally. If you hold the creation account is metaphorical, then #3 might interest you.

The Biblical god is said to be a perfect, omnipotent, omniscient, and an eternal being that spoke all of creation into existence over a period of six days/six periods of time. I have three questions in regards to this:

1. Why did it take so long?
He is all-powerful. He could have popped all of creation into existence with the snap of his fingers, yet we have this extended creation process with no audience. Why the dramatic reveal? I realize this is fairly subjective, but I thought it worth mentioning as I would like to hear your thoughts.

2. Why did he need to rest?!
Was his power running low after this exertion? That would seem contrary to the nature to an omnipotent being.

3. What was the purpose of creating the universe?
I believe the common answer from believers is for "His glorification", but I find this to be a problematic answer. Why did an all powerful being need or want glorification? A perfect being would have no use for this. Also, what disturbed his previous state of equilibrium and possessed him (no pun intended) to begin creating? Can a perfect being become bored or lonely? I don't think so - that would imply imperfection - so, I would like to hear your alternative explanations.

I am of the opinion these issues would point to a flaws in man-made story of origins, but I could be wrong. Let's hear what you have to say about it.

1. Not so sure why it took so long. Maybe He wanted us to experience some of creation being created or growing.

I don't really have an issue with this explanation except that I am not sure how we have experienced creation being created. There was no one there to watch if such an event actually took place.

2. He didn't. That's why I think that's a metaphor to label the 7 day work week.

3. A question i'll ask God in the end.

Example. Plants growing and children growing. People get a joy at watching these things develop from small to big. That's what I am referring to.

Except that is not creation. That is transformation of energy to matter.
This thread is like eavesdropping on a conversation in a mental asylum. - Bulproof

You can call your invisible friends whatever you like. - Desmac

What the hell kind of coked up sideshow has this thread turned into. - Casten
ChristianPunk
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3/8/2015 2:56:25 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 3/8/2015 2:53:35 PM, Skepticalone wrote:
At 3/8/2015 2:50:55 PM, ChristianPunk wrote:
At 3/8/2015 2:45:42 PM, Skepticalone wrote:
At 3/8/2015 1:20:38 PM, ChristianPunk wrote:
At 3/7/2015 11:50:58 PM, Skepticalone wrote:
This post is directed to Christians who believe the Creation account is more or less accurate and will apply to views of a literal creation/seven distinct periods of time equally. If you hold the creation account is metaphorical, then #3 might interest you.

The Biblical god is said to be a perfect, omnipotent, omniscient, and an eternal being that spoke all of creation into existence over a period of six days/six periods of time. I have three questions in regards to this:

1. Why did it take so long?
He is all-powerful. He could have popped all of creation into existence with the snap of his fingers, yet we have this extended creation process with no audience. Why the dramatic reveal? I realize this is fairly subjective, but I thought it worth mentioning as I would like to hear your thoughts.

2. Why did he need to rest?!
Was his power running low after this exertion? That would seem contrary to the nature to an omnipotent being.

3. What was the purpose of creating the universe?
I believe the common answer from believers is for "His glorification", but I find this to be a problematic answer. Why did an all powerful being need or want glorification? A perfect being would have no use for this. Also, what disturbed his previous state of equilibrium and possessed him (no pun intended) to begin creating? Can a perfect being become bored or lonely? I don't think so - that would imply imperfection - so, I would like to hear your alternative explanations.

I am of the opinion these issues would point to a flaws in man-made story of origins, but I could be wrong. Let's hear what you have to say about it.

1. Not so sure why it took so long. Maybe He wanted us to experience some of creation being created or growing.

I don't really have an issue with this explanation except that I am not sure how we have experienced creation being created. There was no one there to watch if such an event actually took place.

2. He didn't. That's why I think that's a metaphor to label the 7 day work week.

3. A question i'll ask God in the end.

Example. Plants growing and children growing. People get a joy at watching these things develop from small to big. That's what I am referring to.

Except that is not creation. That is transformation of energy to matter.

The point is, that is an explaination as to why he would probably do the creation in so much time. Not that he was literally working on it, but that he already created it and decided to let the blueprints work on their own naturally. And the beauty of it is amazing.
Skepticalone
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3/8/2015 10:31:55 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
Bump
This thread is like eavesdropping on a conversation in a mental asylum. - Bulproof

You can call your invisible friends whatever you like. - Desmac

What the hell kind of coked up sideshow has this thread turned into. - Casten
celestialtorahteacher
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3/8/2015 10:59:20 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 3/8/2015 9:28:39 AM, JJ50 wrote:
At 3/8/2015 7:43:03 AM, EtrnlVw wrote:
At 3/8/2015 7:30:33 AM, JJ50 wrote:
I doubt many mainstream Christians believe the Biblical creation accounts have any validity, you have to be pretty gullible to be a Biblical literalist.

Validity? The idea of creation has plenty of validity and that is what the creation account does, it gives us an idea of creation. It's not a science book nor was it written by any modern scientist, it is a picture of what God created not a scientific examination of how He created it. Again there is nothing about the idea of creation that lacks "validity".

As there is no evidence any deity exists, let alone the evil one depicted in the Bible, of course it lacks any validity!

Hey, that's only your atheist opinion and don't you remember you atheists are a fairly small (5%) minority of the population? So what you say has no validity to what the majority of people think about the existence of God. Plus there's the fact that without spiritual experience there is no comprehension of spiritual phenomena, another reason why its senseless to listen to atheists without knowledge of spiritual events having never had them. But atheist egos are fairly immune to rational criticism so you'll ignore these facts about atheist lack of knowledge of the subject they so dearly "believe" they have all the answers to, as outsiders to the phenomena. This is why atheism is actually a fundamentalist religiously held belief system as atheists shun facts that derail their cherished beliefs based on the atheist ego trip: "If I can't find God, no God exists."
Composer
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3/9/2015 4:26:00 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 3/8/2015 10:59:20 PM, celestialtorahteacher wrote:
Hey, that's only your atheist opinion and don't you remember you atheists are a fairly small (5%) minority of the population?
People with no religious affiliation now make up the third-largest global group in a new study of the world's faiths - coming after Christians and Muslims but just before Hindus.

Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk...

So please refrain from preaching your offensive lies that we atheists don't want, nor your offensive propaganda, because we prefer the Truth that Posts like yours prove we have, as opposed to those like you only still wish you had but don't!
dee-em
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3/9/2015 5:14:42 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 3/8/2015 7:27:35 AM, EtrnlVw wrote:
At 3/7/2015 11:50:58 PM, Skepticalone wrote:
This post is directed to Christians who believe the Creation account is more or less accurate and will apply to views of a literal creation/seven distinct periods of time equally. If you hold the creation account is metaphorical, then #3 might interest you.

I've been reading scripture of my own accord since I was a young kid, IDK why it just interested me lol, I have always believed in God and it is just something that is a part of me but anyway even when I was a young kid never did it ever cross my mind that the creation story in Genesis was meant to be some literal scientific perfect description of what God did, it is a PICTURE of what God did, it is an idea meant to produce simple images into the mind of the reader. Once you get used to the way the Bible uses different forms of writing and how numbers have meaning and how it uses imagery and analogies it's really very simple I think some people are missing the fact that the scriptures weave in and out between literal statements visions symbols and parables, it's not a mistake it's just the way they communicated. The Bible is also not necessarily perfect in a physical sense but it's spiritually perfect and that is the focus within all the accounts and stories, it's projecting spiritual truths, lessons and principles through the hands of faulty men.

The Biblical god is said to be a perfect, omnipotent, omniscient, and an eternal being that spoke all of creation into existence over a period of six days/six periods of time. I have three questions in regards to this:

1. Why did it take so long?
He is all-powerful. He could have popped all of creation into existence with the snap of his fingers, yet we have this extended creation process with no audience. Why the dramatic reveal? I realize this is fairly subjective, but I thought it worth mentioning as I would like to hear your thoughts.

Why do you assume that just because He is God that He can just "pop" things into existence? When God creates there is thought and function behind it, things don't just magically appear out of nothing, God arranges things and has an intelligent approach. When we study our physical world we see that in science, how we can break down what it's components are and how it operates. God created the physical world to maintain and function independently.
When the scripture says for example "God says let there be light" and there was light it is simply a picture of what God did, it doesn't mean it just popped out of nowhere once again it's simple imagery, instead of the scripture explaining things in boring lengthy detail explaining exactly how God did it rather it just says what God did. It just gives us a simple model of creation, simple to where a kid to get could understand it.

2. Why did he need to rest?!
Was his power running low after this exertion? That would seem contrary to the nature to an omnipotent being.

Lol really? Come on you have to know it doesn't mean God needed a nap! It's symbolic, numbers have meaning and usually some purpose. The 6 day thing and the day of rest IS SIMPLY a model!

3. What was the purpose of creating the universe?
I believe the common answer from believers is for "His glorification", but I find this to be a problematic answer. Why did an all powerful being need or want glorification? A perfect being would have no use for this. Also, what disturbed his previous state of equilibrium and possessed him (no pun intended) to begin creating? Can a perfect being become bored or lonely? I don't think so - that would imply imperfection - so, I would like to hear your alternative explanations.

Well it's hard for us to imagine anything outside of what we know of Earth and existence but who could possibly know what a God has been doing all this time, maybe He does all kinds of things, maybe He has, been and will continue to create. If you study scripture there are all sorts of spiritual beings and creatures.
I think that is precisely the point, I think God is a creative Person to say the least sometimes I think we overlook that but God is extremely creative if you really get a good look around. The diversity and levels of knowledge of just our physical world are astounding, not to mention the spirit and eternity, the spirit has much more dimension and depth.
I think God created the universe for several reasons but not just for "glorification" I agree with you I don't think that's the bottom line although we should give God glory, I think that is rightfully placed. But I think God loves fellowship more than just glorifying Himself, I think He desires a connection with creatures that are completely independent from Himself, in other words an intelligent free thinking being choosing Him. Why not? You say how can an "all-powerful" God need this? I say how could He NOT?

I am of the opinion these issues would point to a flaws in man-made story of origins, but I could be wrong. Let's hear what you have to say about it.

It's interesting that you entertain the idea of God experiencing time. That would make time independent of God (amongst other problems). How do you explain that?
dee-em
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3/9/2015 5:21:38 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 3/8/2015 2:50:55 PM, ChristianPunk wrote:
At 3/8/2015 2:45:42 PM, Skepticalone wrote:
At 3/8/2015 1:20:38 PM, ChristianPunk wrote:
At 3/7/2015 11:50:58 PM, Skepticalone wrote:
This post is directed to Christians who believe the Creation account is more or less accurate and will apply to views of a literal creation/seven distinct periods of time equally. If you hold the creation account is metaphorical, then #3 might interest you.

The Biblical god is said to be a perfect, omnipotent, omniscient, and an eternal being that spoke all of creation into existence over a period of six days/six periods of time. I have three questions in regards to this:

1. Why did it take so long?
He is all-powerful. He could have popped all of creation into existence with the snap of his fingers, yet we have this extended creation process with no audience. Why the dramatic reveal? I realize this is fairly subjective, but I thought it worth mentioning as I would like to hear your thoughts.

2. Why did he need to rest?!
Was his power running low after this exertion? That would seem contrary to the nature to an omnipotent being.

3. What was the purpose of creating the universe?
I believe the common answer from believers is for "His glorification", but I find this to be a problematic answer. Why did an all powerful being need or want glorification? A perfect being would have no use for this. Also, what disturbed his previous state of equilibrium and possessed him (no pun intended) to begin creating? Can a perfect being become bored or lonely? I don't think so - that would imply imperfection - so, I would like to hear your alternative explanations.

I am of the opinion these issues would point to a flaws in man-made story of origins, but I could be wrong. Let's hear what you have to say about it.

1. Not so sure why it took so long. Maybe He wanted us to experience some of creation being created or growing.

I don't really have an issue with this explanation except that I am not sure how we have experienced creation being created. There was no one there to watch if such an event actually took place.

2. He didn't. That's why I think that's a metaphor to label the 7 day work week.

3. A question i'll ask God in the end.

Example. Plants growing and children growing. People get a joy at watching these things develop from small to big. That's what I am referring to.

Punk, what are you talking about? There were no humans until about half a million years ago. Plants and trees had existed for hundreds of millions of years before we appeared on the scene. What do you think the herbivore dinosaurs lived on?
ChristianPunk
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3/9/2015 8:45:08 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 3/9/2015 5:21:38 AM, dee-em wrote:
At 3/8/2015 2:50:55 PM, ChristianPunk wrote:
At 3/8/2015 2:45:42 PM, Skepticalone wrote:
At 3/8/2015 1:20:38 PM, ChristianPunk wrote:
At 3/7/2015 11:50:58 PM, Skepticalone wrote:
This post is directed to Christians who believe the Creation account is more or less accurate and will apply to views of a literal creation/seven distinct periods of time equally. If you hold the creation account is metaphorical, then #3 might interest you.

The Biblical god is said to be a perfect, omnipotent, omniscient, and an eternal being that spoke all of creation into existence over a period of six days/six periods of time. I have three questions in regards to this:

1. Why did it take so long?
He is all-powerful. He could have popped all of creation into existence with the snap of his fingers, yet we have this extended creation process with no audience. Why the dramatic reveal? I realize this is fairly subjective, but I thought it worth mentioning as I would like to hear your thoughts.

2. Why did he need to rest?!
Was his power running low after this exertion? That would seem contrary to the nature to an omnipotent being.

3. What was the purpose of creating the universe?
I believe the common answer from believers is for "His glorification", but I find this to be a problematic answer. Why did an all powerful being need or want glorification? A perfect being would have no use for this. Also, what disturbed his previous state of equilibrium and possessed him (no pun intended) to begin creating? Can a perfect being become bored or lonely? I don't think so - that would imply imperfection - so, I would like to hear your alternative explanations.

I am of the opinion these issues would point to a flaws in man-made story of origins, but I could be wrong. Let's hear what you have to say about it.

1. Not so sure why it took so long. Maybe He wanted us to experience some of creation being created or growing.

I don't really have an issue with this explanation except that I am not sure how we have experienced creation being created. There was no one there to watch if such an event actually took place.

2. He didn't. That's why I think that's a metaphor to label the 7 day work week.

3. A question i'll ask God in the end.

Example. Plants growing and children growing. People get a joy at watching these things develop from small to big. That's what I am referring to.

Punk, what are you talking about? There were no humans until about half a million years ago. Plants and trees had existed for hundreds of millions of years before we appeared on the scene. What do you think the herbivore dinosaurs lived on?

But humans would come later and that's why the slow process was used. Naturally.
JJ50
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3/9/2015 8:54:14 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 3/8/2015 10:59:20 PM, celestialtorahteacher wrote:
At 3/8/2015 9:28:39 AM, JJ50 wrote:
At 3/8/2015 7:43:03 AM, EtrnlVw wrote:
At 3/8/2015 7:30:33 AM, JJ50 wrote:
I doubt many mainstream Christians believe the Biblical creation accounts have any validity, you have to be pretty gullible to be a Biblical literalist.

Validity? The idea of creation has plenty of validity and that is what the creation account does, it gives us an idea of creation. It's not a science book nor was it written by any modern scientist, it is a picture of what God created not a scientific examination of how He created it. Again there is nothing about the idea of creation that lacks "validity".

As there is no evidence any deity exists, let alone the evil one depicted in the Bible, of course it lacks any validity!

Hey, that's only your atheist opinion and don't you remember you atheists are a fairly small (5%) minority of the population? So what you say has no validity to what the majority of people think about the existence of God. Plus there's the fact that without spiritual experience there is no comprehension of spiritual phenomena, another reason why its senseless to listen to atheists without knowledge of spiritual events having never had them. But atheist egos are fairly immune to rational criticism so you'll ignore these facts about atheist lack of knowledge of the subject they so dearly "believe" they have all the answers to, as outsiders to the phenomena. This is why atheism is actually a fundamentalist religiously held belief system as atheists shun facts that derail their cherished beliefs based on the atheist ego trip: "If I can't find God, no God exists."

I think the number of unbelievers is far higher than 5% here in the UK, unlike the US where many of the population seem so very, very gullible where religion is concerned, which is sad! But even if the whole world believed the in creation account in the Bible, it doesn't make it true, as there is NO verifiable evidence that any deity exists!
dee-em
Posts: 6,469
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3/9/2015 9:38:49 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 3/9/2015 8:45:08 AM, ChristianPunk wrote:
At 3/9/2015 5:21:38 AM, dee-em wrote:
At 3/8/2015 2:50:55 PM, ChristianPunk wrote:
At 3/8/2015 2:45:42 PM, Skepticalone wrote:
At 3/8/2015 1:20:38 PM, ChristianPunk wrote:
At 3/7/2015 11:50:58 PM, Skepticalone wrote:
This post is directed to Christians who believe the Creation account is more or less accurate and will apply to views of a literal creation/seven distinct periods of time equally. If you hold the creation account is metaphorical, then #3 might interest you.

The Biblical god is said to be a perfect, omnipotent, omniscient, and an eternal being that spoke all of creation into existence over a period of six days/six periods of time. I have three questions in regards to this:

1. Why did it take so long?
He is all-powerful. He could have popped all of creation into existence with the snap of his fingers, yet we have this extended creation process with no audience. Why the dramatic reveal? I realize this is fairly subjective, but I thought it worth mentioning as I would like to hear your thoughts.

2. Why did he need to rest?!
Was his power running low after this exertion? That would seem contrary to the nature to an omnipotent being.

3. What was the purpose of creating the universe?
I believe the common answer from believers is for "His glorification", but I find this to be a problematic answer. Why did an all powerful being need or want glorification? A perfect being would have no use for this. Also, what disturbed his previous state of equilibrium and possessed him (no pun intended) to begin creating? Can a perfect being become bored or lonely? I don't think so - that would imply imperfection - so, I would like to hear your alternative explanations.

I am of the opinion these issues would point to a flaws in man-made story of origins, but I could be wrong. Let's hear what you have to say about it.

1. Not so sure why it took so long. Maybe He wanted us to experience some of creation being created or growing.

I don't really have an issue with this explanation except that I am not sure how we have experienced creation being created. There was no one there to watch if such an event actually took place.

2. He didn't. That's why I think that's a metaphor to label the 7 day work week.

3. A question i'll ask God in the end.

Example. Plants growing and children growing. People get a joy at watching these things develop from small to big. That's what I am referring to.

Punk, what are you talking about? There were no humans until about half a million years ago. Plants and trees had existed for hundreds of millions of years before we appeared on the scene. What do you think the herbivore dinosaurs lived on?

But humans would come later and that's why the slow process was used. Naturally.

Be real, dude. You show that you are rational in other posts but here you can't seem to face facts. Humans have barely been here for an eye-blink in the history of life on Earth. It would be the height of folly to think the Earth was made specifically for us but was devoid of humans for 99.99% of its existence. We wouldn't be here at all if it wasn't for a wayward meteor 65 million years ago!
ChristianPunk
Posts: 1,710
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3/9/2015 10:49:28 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 3/9/2015 9:38:49 AM, dee-em wrote:
At 3/9/2015 8:45:08 AM, ChristianPunk wrote:
At 3/9/2015 5:21:38 AM, dee-em wrote:
At 3/8/2015 2:50:55 PM, ChristianPunk wrote:
At 3/8/2015 2:45:42 PM, Skepticalone wrote:
At 3/8/2015 1:20:38 PM, ChristianPunk wrote:
At 3/7/2015 11:50:58 PM, Skepticalone wrote:
This post is directed to Christians who believe the Creation account is more or less accurate and will apply to views of a literal creation/seven distinct periods of time equally. If you hold the creation account is metaphorical, then #3 might interest you.

The Biblical god is said to be a perfect, omnipotent, omniscient, and an eternal being that spoke all of creation into existence over a period of six days/six periods of time. I have three questions in regards to this:

1. Why did it take so long?
He is all-powerful. He could have popped all of creation into existence with the snap of his fingers, yet we have this extended creation process with no audience. Why the dramatic reveal? I realize this is fairly subjective, but I thought it worth mentioning as I would like to hear your thoughts.

2. Why did he need to rest?!
Was his power running low after this exertion? That would seem contrary to the nature to an omnipotent being.

3. What was the purpose of creating the universe?
I believe the common answer from believers is for "His glorification", but I find this to be a problematic answer. Why did an all powerful being need or want glorification? A perfect being would have no use for this. Also, what disturbed his previous state of equilibrium and possessed him (no pun intended) to begin creating? Can a perfect being become bored or lonely? I don't think so - that would imply imperfection - so, I would like to hear your alternative explanations.

I am of the opinion these issues would point to a flaws in man-made story of origins, but I could be wrong. Let's hear what you have to say about it.

1. Not so sure why it took so long. Maybe He wanted us to experience some of creation being created or growing.

I don't really have an issue with this explanation except that I am not sure how we have experienced creation being created. There was no one there to watch if such an event actually took place.

2. He didn't. That's why I think that's a metaphor to label the 7 day work week.

3. A question i'll ask God in the end.

Example. Plants growing and children growing. People get a joy at watching these things develop from small to big. That's what I am referring to.

Punk, what are you talking about? There were no humans until about half a million years ago. Plants and trees had existed for hundreds of millions of years before we appeared on the scene. What do you think the herbivore dinosaurs lived on?

But humans would come later and that's why the slow process was used. Naturally.

Be real, dude. You show that you are rational in other posts but here you can't seem to face facts. Humans have barely been here for an eye-blink in the history of life on Earth. It would be the height of folly to think the Earth was made specifically for us but was devoid of humans for 99.99% of its existence. We wouldn't be here at all if it wasn't for a wayward meteor 65 million years ago!

I only pointed out a benefit for humans. I'm not saying that this means the earth was specifically designed for humans. There are plenty of things that make us weak and others strong. My point is that there is beauty for us to watch when we see things grow and develop. Maybe God had the same feeling and wanted to watch his creation grow rather than to instantly create it and take the fun out of it. It's much more fun for me to watch a chia pet grow grass than to get instant 1 second grass.
Hawkins
Posts: 21
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3/9/2015 11:38:49 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
1. Why did it take so long?
He is all-powerful. He could have popped all of creation into existence with the snap of his fingers, yet we have this extended creation process with no audience. Why the dramatic reveal? I realize this is fairly subjective, but I thought it worth mentioning as I would like to hear your thoughts.

He's also responsible for creating sets of rules such as physical laws applicable to multiple dimension time-space and etc. The most efficient way for things to be created may be to make use of certain rules.

As we don't know these rules, we have no way to judge if it's the most efficient way to get things done.


2. Why did he need to rest?!
Was his power running low after this exertion? That would seem contrary to the nature to an omnipotent being.


He's setting forth a rule of thumb by example such that today's human will rest in the same pattern. That is, in our universal calendar, we all have 7 days a week. You can claim anywhere with legitimacy that you will rest at least one day in a week. You boss is futile in resisting your this request.

He also demonstrates through this that He's the God of this planet and humans on it in terms of sovereignty.

3. What was the purpose of creating the universe?
I believe the common answer from believers is for "His glorification", but I find this to be a problematic answer. Why did an all powerful being need or want glorification? A perfect being would have no use for this. Also, what disturbed his previous state of equilibrium and possessed him (no pun intended) to begin creating? Can a perfect being become bored or lonely? I don't think so - that would imply imperfection - so, I would like to hear your alternative explanations.


This universe is just a temporary place. This universe acts as God's field of harvest. He grows souls here. Those qualified will be brought to the next universe (new heaven and new earth). God's ultimate plan is to build an eternity where angels and humans will be living with God. We call this place Heaven.
EtrnlVw
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3/9/2015 11:58:43 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 3/8/2015 10:40:04 AM, Skepticalone wrote:
At 3/8/2015 7:27:35 AM, EtrnlVw wrote:
At 3/7/2015 11:50:58 PM, Skepticalone wrote:
This post is directed to Christians who believe the Creation account is more or less accurate and will apply to views of a literal creation/seven distinct periods of time equally. If you hold the creation account is metaphorical, then #3 might interest you.

I've been reading scripture of my own accord since I was a young kid, IDK why it just interested me lol, I have always believed in God and it is just something that is a part of me but anyway even when I was a young kid never did it ever cross my mind that the creation story in Genesis was meant to be some literal scientific perfect description of what God did, it is a PICTURE of what God did, it is an idea meant to produce simple images into the mind of the reader. Once you get used to the way the Bible uses different forms of writing and how numbers have meaning and how it uses imagery and analogies it's really very simple I think some people are missing the fact that the scriptures weave in and out between literal statements visions symbols and parables, it's not a mistake it's just the way they communicated. The Bible is also not necessarily perfect in a physical sense but it's spiritually perfect and that is the focus within all the accounts and stories, it's projecting spiritual truths, lessons and principles through the hands of faulty men.

The Biblical god is said to be a perfect, omnipotent, omniscient, and an eternal being that spoke all of creation into existence over a period of six days/six periods of time. I have three questions in regards to this:

1. Why did it take so long?
He is all-powerful. He could have popped all of creation into existence with the snap of his fingers, yet we have this extended creation process with no audience. Why the dramatic reveal? I realize this is fairly subjective, but I thought it worth mentioning as I would like to hear your thoughts.

Why do you assume that just because He is God that He can just "pop" things into existence? When God creates there is thought and function behind it, things don't just magically appear out of nothing, God arranges things and has an intelligent approach. When we study our physical world we see that in science, how we can break down what it's components are and how it operates. God created the physical world to maintain and function independently.

Well, I can see you're speaking from a position of certainty. I would point out unless you have direct two way communication with your god that your certainty is irrational, and maybe even then. However, it is true I assume an all powerful being should be able to "pop" things into existence. Why do you assume otherwise?

If we stick to logic and reality there is no reason why we should believe what you are saying. The assumption here is that God has no process by which He creates, to me that is simply ignorant, everything we see in creation and the way the world is framed speaks the opposite. Why would you negate the intelligence behind the work? Does God not have a mind and or intelligence?

When the scripture says for example "God says let there be light" and there was light it is simply a picture of what God did, it doesn't mean it just popped out of nowhere once again it's simple imagery, instead of the scripture explaining things in boring lengthy detail explaining exactly how God did it rather it just says what God did. It just gives us a simple model of creation, simple to where a kid to get could understand it.

2. Why did he need to rest?!
Was his power running low after this exertion? That would seem contrary to the nature to an omnipotent being.

Lol really? Come on you have to know it doesn't mean God needed a nap! It's symbolic, numbers have meaning and usually some purpose. The 6 day thing and the day of rest IS SIMPLY a model!

This question wasn't directed at those who hold a metaphorical view of Creation. If only I had warned you away in some fashion.... ;-)

'Metaphorical" or not lol, one does not have to take the position of a non literalist to see that it's symbolic. BTW, one doesn't have to be a literalist to understand how the scripture uses writing styles. Just because I understand this does not make me a "non-literalist".

3. What was the purpose of creating the universe?
I believe the common answer from believers is for "His glorification", but I find this to be a problematic answer. Why did an all powerful being need or want glorification? A perfect being would have no use for this. Also, what disturbed his previous state of equilibrium and possessed him (no pun intended) to begin creating? Can a perfect being become bored or lonely? I don't think so - that would imply imperfection - so, I would like to hear your alternative explanations.

Well it's hard for us to imagine anything outside of what we know of Earth and existence but who could possibly know what a God has been doing all this time, maybe He does all kinds of things, maybe He has, been and will continue to create. If you study scripture there are all sorts of spiritual beings and creatures.
I think that is precisely the point, I think God is a creative Person to say the least sometimes I think we overlook that but God is extremely creative if you really get a good look around. The diversity and levels of knowledge of just our physical world are astounding, not to mention the spirit and eternity, the spirit has much more dimension and depth.
I think God created the universe for several reasons but not just for "glorification" I agree with you I don't think that's the bottom line although we should give God glory, I think that is rightfully placed. But I think God loves fellowship more than just glorifying Himself, I think He desires a connection with creatures that are completely independent from Himself, in other words an intelligent free thinking being choosing Him. Why not? You say how can an "all-powerful" God need this? I say how could He NOT?

A perfect being by definition does not need anything.

How would you know what a "perfect" Being would need. Is a "perfect" Being a robot?? devoid of wanting??? I don't see any logic in this at all as it does not follow. I mean I get what you are trying to say but think about it....why do you devoid God of attributes, such as that of having desires?

I am of the opinion these issues would point to a flaws in man-made story of origins, but I could be wrong. Let's hear what you have to say about it.
EtrnlVw
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3/9/2015 12:03:21 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 3/8/2015 9:28:39 AM, JJ50 wrote:
At 3/8/2015 7:43:03 AM, EtrnlVw wrote:
At 3/8/2015 7:30:33 AM, JJ50 wrote:
I doubt many mainstream Christians believe the Biblical creation accounts have any validity, you have to be pretty gullible to be a Biblical literalist.

Validity? The idea of creation has plenty of validity and that is what the creation account does, it gives us an idea of creation. It's not a science book nor was it written by any modern scientist, it is a picture of what God created not a scientific examination of how He created it. Again there is nothing about the idea of creation that lacks "validity".

As there is no evidence any deity exists, let alone the evil one depicted in the Bible, of course it lacks any validity!

You continually miss the point that God is a Spirit and DEFIES "evidence" SUCH AS the evidence that you require. God is not compatible nor is His existence accountable to the scientific method, which is to observe PHYSICAL things.

I repeat, the idea of creation lacks NO validity, as it is only your opinion that life is merely physical, so enjoy you rational thinking.
JJ50
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3/9/2015 12:20:51 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 3/9/2015 12:03:21 PM, EtrnlVw wrote:
At 3/8/2015 9:28:39 AM, JJ50 wrote:
At 3/8/2015 7:43:03 AM, EtrnlVw wrote:
At 3/8/2015 7:30:33 AM, JJ50 wrote:
I doubt many mainstream Christians believe the Biblical creation accounts have any validity, you have to be pretty gullible to be a Biblical literalist.

Validity? The idea of creation has plenty of validity and that is what the creation account does, it gives us an idea of creation. It's not a science book nor was it written by any modern scientist, it is a picture of what God created not a scientific examination of how He created it. Again there is nothing about the idea of creation that lacks "validity".

As there is no evidence any deity exists, let alone the evil one depicted in the Bible, of course it lacks any validity!

You continually miss the point that God is a Spirit and DEFIES "evidence" SUCH AS the evidence that you require. God is not compatible nor is His existence accountable to the scientific method, which is to observe PHYSICAL things.

I repeat, the idea of creation lacks NO validity, as it is only your opinion that life is merely physical, so enjoy you rational thinking.

You can't prove your deity exists, let alone anything else about it! You are making your belief system fit what you wish it to be like!
Skepticalone
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3/9/2015 12:34:30 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 3/9/2015 11:38:49 AM, Hawkins wrote:
1. Why did it take so long?
He is all-powerful. He could have popped all of creation into existence with the snap of his fingers, yet we have this extended creation process with no audience. Why the dramatic reveal? I realize this is fairly subjective, but I thought it worth mentioning as I would like to hear your thoughts.

He's also responsible for creating sets of rules such as physical laws applicable to multiple dimension time-space and etc. The most efficient way for things to be created may be to make use of certain rules.

As we don't know these rules, we have no way to judge if it's the most efficient way to get things done.

That is a fair point.



2. Why did he need to rest?!
Was his power running low after this exertion? That would seem contrary to the nature to an omnipotent being.


He's setting forth a rule of thumb by example such that today's human will rest in the same pattern. That is, in our universal calendar, we all have 7 days a week. You can claim anywhere with legitimacy that you will rest at least one day in a week. You boss is futile in resisting your this request.

He also demonstrates through this that He's the God of this planet and humans on it in terms of sovereignty.

Are you arguing for a literal creation week?

3. What was the purpose of creating the universe?
I believe the common answer from believers is for "His glorification", but I find this to be a problematic answer. Why did an all powerful being need or want glorification? A perfect being would have no use for this. Also, what disturbed his previous state of equilibrium and possessed him (no pun intended) to begin creating? Can a perfect being become bored or lonely? I don't think so - that would imply imperfection - so, I would like to hear your alternative explanations.


This universe is just a temporary place. This universe acts as God's field of harvest. He grows souls here. Those qualified will be brought to the next universe (new heaven and new earth). God's ultimate plan is to build an eternity where angels and humans will be living with God. We call this place Heaven.

Why are souls needed, and what disturbed his eternal equilibrium that he suddenly decided to begin creating this universe?
This thread is like eavesdropping on a conversation in a mental asylum. - Bulproof

You can call your invisible friends whatever you like. - Desmac

What the hell kind of coked up sideshow has this thread turned into. - Casten
popculturepooka
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3/9/2015 12:39:08 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 3/7/2015 11:50:58 PM, Skepticalone wrote:
This post is directed to Christians who believe the Creation account is more or less accurate and will apply to views of a literal creation/seven distinct periods of time equally. If you hold the creation account is metaphorical, then #3 might interest you.

The Biblical god is said to be a perfect, omnipotent, omniscient, and an eternal being that spoke all of creation into existence over a period of six days/six periods of time. I have three questions in regards to this:

1. Why did it take so long?
He is all-powerful. He could have popped all of creation into existence with the snap of his fingers, yet we have this extended creation process with no audience. Why the dramatic reveal? I realize this is fairly subjective, but I thought it worth mentioning as I would like to hear your thoughts.

2. Why did he need to rest?!
Was his power running low after this exertion? That would seem contrary to the nature to an omnipotent being.

3. What was the purpose of creating the universe?
I believe the common answer from believers is for "His glorification", but I find this to be a problematic answer. Why did an all powerful being need or want glorification? A perfect being would have no use for this. Also, what disturbed his previous state of equilibrium and possessed him (no pun intended) to begin creating? Can a perfect being become bored or lonely? I don't think so - that would imply imperfection - so, I would like to hear your alternative explanations.

I am of the opinion these issues would point to a flaws in man-made story of origins, but I could be wrong. Let's hear what you have to say about it.

Because he wanted to created good things with immense value. Creating beings who can display such virtues as love, courage, faith, hope, compassion, etc is a good thing.

Plus, God could just be artistic. Wanting to create things for their aesthetic value.
At 10/3/2016 11:49:13 PM, thett3 wrote:
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Skepticalone
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3/9/2015 12:59:46 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 3/9/2015 11:58:43 AM, EtrnlVw wrote:
At 3/8/2015 10:40:04 AM, Skepticalone wrote:
At 3/8/2015 7:27:35 AM, EtrnlVw wrote:
At 3/7/2015 11:50:58 PM, Skepticalone wrote:
This post is directed to Christians who believe the Creation account is more or less accurate and will apply to views of a literal creation/seven distinct periods of time equally. If you hold the creation account is metaphorical, then #3 might interest you.

I've been reading scripture of my own accord since I was a young kid, IDK why it just interested me lol, I have always believed in God and it is just something that is a part of me but anyway even when I was a young kid never did it ever cross my mind that the creation story in Genesis was meant to be some literal scientific perfect description of what God did, it is a PICTURE of what God did, it is an idea meant to produce simple images into the mind of the reader. Once you get used to the way the Bible uses different forms of writing and how numbers have meaning and how it uses imagery and analogies it's really very simple I think some people are missing the fact that the scriptures weave in and out between literal statements visions symbols and parables, it's not a mistake it's just the way they communicated. The Bible is also not necessarily perfect in a physical sense but it's spiritually perfect and that is the focus within all the accounts and stories, it's projecting spiritual truths, lessons and principles through the hands of faulty men.

The Biblical god is said to be a perfect, omnipotent, omniscient, and an eternal being that spoke all of creation into existence over a period of six days/six periods of time. I have three questions in regards to this:

1. Why did it take so long?
He is all-powerful. He could have popped all of creation into existence with the snap of his fingers, yet we have this extended creation process with no audience. Why the dramatic reveal? I realize this is fairly subjective, but I thought it worth mentioning as I would like to hear your thoughts.

Why do you assume that just because He is God that He can just "pop" things into existence? When God creates there is thought and function behind it, things don't just magically appear out of nothing, God arranges things and has an intelligent approach. When we study our physical world we see that in science, how we can break down what it's components are and how it operates. God created the physical world to maintain and function independently.

Well, I can see you're speaking from a position of certainty. I would point out unless you have direct two way communication with your god that your certainty is irrational, and maybe even then. However, it is true I assume an all powerful being should be able to "pop" things into existence. Why do you assume otherwise?

If we stick to logic and reality there is no reason why we should believe what you are saying. The assumption here is that God has no process by which He creates, to me that is simply ignorant, everything we see in creation and the way the world is framed speaks the opposite. Why would you negate the intelligence behind the work? Does God not have a mind and or intelligence?

What is illogical about asking questions? The 'process' of creation in the Bible does not appear to be valid. (Plants need sunlight to live, etc) Plus, it seems to me I am giving your God more credit than you give him. Do you assume he must have a process? I see no reason why an omnipotent being must operate in a specific way. And I do not conflate natural processes to a god. That is a conclusion built on your preconceived beliefs. That being said, I realize the original question was subjective to begin with, and you are entitled to your own subjective opinions.

When the scripture says for example "God says let there be light" and there was light it is simply a picture of what God did, it doesn't mean it just popped out of nowhere once again it's simple imagery, instead of the scripture explaining things in boring lengthy detail explaining exactly how God did it rather it just says what God did. It just gives us a simple model of creation, simple to where a kid to get could understand it.

2. Why did he need to rest?!
Was his power running low after this exertion? That would seem contrary to the nature to an omnipotent being.

Lol really? Come on you have to know it doesn't mean God needed a nap! It's symbolic, numbers have meaning and usually some purpose. The 6 day thing and the day of rest IS SIMPLY a model!

This question wasn't directed at those who hold a metaphorical view of Creation. If only I had warned you away in some fashion.... ;-)

'Metaphorical" or not lol, one does not have to take the position of a non literalist to see that it's symbolic. BTW, one doesn't have to be a literalist to understand how the scripture uses writing styles. Just because I understand this does not make me a "non-literalist".

If you want to take the "rest" of God as metaphorical, then you'll need to take the entire creation as metaphorical. After all, the writing style is consistent throughout. Where do you stand on creation? Is it literal or metaphorical?

3. What was the purpose of creating the universe?
I believe the common answer from believers is for "His glorification", but I find this to be a problematic answer. Why did an all powerful being need or want glorification? A perfect being would have no use for this. Also, what disturbed his previous state of equilibrium and possessed him (no pun intended) to begin creating? Can a perfect being become bored or lonely? I don't think so - that would imply imperfection - so, I would like to hear your alternative explanations.

Well it's hard for us to imagine anything outside of what we know of Earth and existence but who could possibly know what a God has been doing all this time, maybe He does all kinds of things, maybe He has, been and will continue to create. If you study scripture there are all sorts of spiritual beings and creatures.
I think that is precisely the point, I think God is a creative Person to say the least sometimes I think we overlook that but God is extremely creative if you really get a good look around. The diversity and levels of knowledge of just our physical world are astounding, not to mention the spirit and eternity, the spirit has much more dimension and depth.
I think God created the universe for several reasons but not just for "glorification" I agree with you I don't think that's the bottom line although we should give God glory, I think that is rightfully placed. But I think God loves fellowship more than just glorifying Himself, I think He desires a connection with creatures that are completely independent from Himself, in other words an intelligent free thinking being choosing Him. Why not? You say how can an "all-powerful" God need this? I say how could He NOT?

A perfect being by definition does not need anything.

How would you know what a "perfect" Being would need. Is a "perfect" Being a robot?? devoid of wanting??? I don't see any logic in this at all as it does not follow. I mean I get what you are trying to say but think about it....why do you devoid God of attributes, such as that of having desires?

A being in need of something is incomplete. It strikes me as fairly arrogant to suggest God was completed by humanity, and smacks of a 'god' created by man instead of the other way around.

I am of the opinion these issues would point to a flaws in man-made story of origins, but I could be wrong. Let's hear what you have to say about it.
This thread is like eavesdropping on a conversation in a mental asylum. - Bulproof

You can call your invisible friends whatever you like. - Desmac

What the hell kind of coked up sideshow has this thread turned into. - Casten