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Why I hate most religions

YamaVonKarma
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3/9/2015 12:43:49 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
Why do I hate most religions? It's quite simple really. I hate anyone forcing their religion on another person and most religious cultures I have seen command such.

You see, I was raised in a heavily Christian family. And from a young age, I was told to study the bible. At one point, I could recite the book of Psalms entirely from memory. And every single time those words came of my tongue, they sickened me. Knowing all the hatred and crimes that had been inspired by those words soured my taste for religions.

Luckily, my family began noticing my growing discontent and allowed me to stop being subjugated to that life. Yet the world is still bound by the chains I once was. Bigotry, and racism are still being fueled by these worthless books.

In America, homosexuals and people of miscellaneous sexes are being refused their human rights in the name of Christianity.

http://www.theblaze.com...

http://www.huffingtonpost.com...

In the Middle East, Islam is being used as a call to savagery.

Hmm... Judaism is a bit more shaky recently. I mean Israel has certainly been a part of some rather shady s**t involving Palestine. But not so much as to warrant hatred as of now.

So I present a challenge. Show me how religion positively impacts this world more than it negatively impacts it.
People who I've called as mafia DP1:
TUF, and YYW
johnlubba
Posts: 2,892
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3/9/2015 1:15:44 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 3/9/2015 12:43:49 PM, YamaVonKarma wrote:
Why do I hate most religions? It's quite simple really. I hate anyone forcing their religion on another person and most religious cultures I have seen command such.

You see, I was raised in a heavily Christian family. And from a young age, I was told to study the bible. At one point, I could recite the book of Psalms entirely from memory. And every single time those words came of my tongue, they sickened me. Knowing all the hatred and crimes that had been inspired by those words soured my taste for religions.

Luckily, my family began noticing my growing discontent and allowed me to stop being subjugated to that life. Yet the world is still bound by the chains I once was. Bigotry, and racism are still being fueled by these worthless books.

In America, homosexuals and people of miscellaneous sexes are being refused their human rights in the name of Christianity.

http://www.theblaze.com...

http://www.huffingtonpost.com...

In the Middle East, Islam is being used as a call to savagery.

Hmm... Judaism is a bit more shaky recently. I mean Israel has certainly been a part of some rather shady s**t involving Palestine. But not so much as to warrant hatred as of now.

So I present a challenge. Show me how religion positively impacts this world more than it negatively impacts it.

What about the millions of people who find solace I religion?
Envisage
Posts: 3,646
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3/9/2015 1:19:49 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
You must embrace nihilism. Otherwise you will be shunned from society, and your soul will be lost for eternity. That is our creed.
Envisage
Posts: 3,646
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3/9/2015 1:22:51 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
On a more serious note, Christopher Hitchens had a challenge:

"Show me a good moral act, that could or was undertaken in the name of religion, that could not have been undertaken without religion"

In contrast to:

"Show me an evil moral act, undertaken because of religion, that could not have been undertaken without religion"

His point was, the former is much harder to answer than the latter, since religion gives people a mandate and self-authority that they simply would not have had otherwise.
Harikrish
Posts: 11,005
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3/9/2015 1:29:46 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 3/9/2015 12:43:49 PM, YamaVonKarma wrote:
Why do I hate most religions? It's quite simple really. I hate anyone forcing their religion on another person and most religious cultures I have seen command such.

You see, I was raised in a heavily Christian family. And from a young age, I was told to study the bible. At one point, I could recite the book of Psalms entirely from memory. And every single time those words came of my tongue, they sickened me. Knowing all the hatred and crimes that had been inspired by those words soured my taste for religions.

Luckily, my family began noticing my growing discontent and allowed me to stop being subjugated to that life. Yet the world is still bound by the chains I once was. Bigotry, and racism are still being fueled by these worthless books.

In America, homosexuals and people of miscellaneous sexes are being refused their human rights in the name of Christianity.

http://www.theblaze.com...

http://www.huffingtonpost.com...

In the Middle East, Islam is being used as a call to savagery.

Hmm... Judaism is a bit more shaky recently. I mean Israel has certainly been a part of some rather shady s**t involving Palestine. But not so much as to warrant hatred as of now.

So I present a challenge. Show me how religion positively impacts this world more than it negatively impacts it.
The positive influence of religions. It helps us separate the crazies from the not so crazy people. You can group the crazies into Christians and Islamists. The not so crazy are the secularists and atheists.
The negative impact of religion. You cannot get rid of the crazies. There are 2 billion Christians and 1.6 billion Muslims.
Give us another challenge. This was too easy.
popculturepooka
Posts: 7,924
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3/9/2015 1:39:14 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 3/9/2015 1:29:46 PM, Harikrish wrote:
At 3/9/2015 12:43:49 PM, YamaVonKarma wrote:
Why do I hate most religions? It's quite simple really. I hate anyone forcing their religion on another person and most religious cultures I have seen command such.

You see, I was raised in a heavily Christian family. And from a young age, I was told to study the bible. At one point, I could recite the book of Psalms entirely from memory. And every single time those words came of my tongue, they sickened me. Knowing all the hatred and crimes that had been inspired by those words soured my taste for religions.

Luckily, my family began noticing my growing discontent and allowed me to stop being subjugated to that life. Yet the world is still bound by the chains I once was. Bigotry, and racism are still being fueled by these worthless books.

In America, homosexuals and people of miscellaneous sexes are being refused their human rights in the name of Christianity.

http://www.theblaze.com...

http://www.huffingtonpost.com...

In the Middle East, Islam is being used as a call to savagery.

Hmm... Judaism is a bit more shaky recently. I mean Israel has certainly been a part of some rather shady s**t involving Palestine. But not so much as to warrant hatred as of now.

So I present a challenge. Show me how religion positively impacts this world more than it negatively impacts it.
The positive influence of religions. It helps us separate the crazies from the not so crazy people. You can group the crazies into Christians and Islamists. The not so crazy are the secularists and atheists.
The negative impact of religion. You cannot get rid of the crazies. There are 2 billion Christians and 1.6 billion Muslims.
Give us another challenge. This was too easy.

Us vs them thinking. Nice. Thought free thinkers were supposed to be against such tribalism.
At 10/3/2016 11:49:13 PM, thett3 wrote:
BLACK LIVES MATTER!
johnlubba
Posts: 2,892
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3/9/2015 1:42:33 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 3/9/2015 1:22:51 PM, Envisage wrote:
On a more serious note, Christopher Hitchens had a challenge:

"Show me a good moral act, that could or was undertaken in the name of religion, that could not have been undertaken without religion"

A good or moral act undertaken in the name of religion that could not have been undertaken without religion,

How about, The fact, that if God exists, It would be moral to offer explanations on how to connect with God spiritually? You can not do this without religion, The essence of every religion is to learn how to love God.

If God exists and we choose to ignore Him, rather than try to live good lives in association with religious rules and regulations, This is something someone who isn't religious can not do, therefore it would be immoral to exclude God from your life.


In contrast to:

"Show me an evil moral act, undertaken because of religion, that could not have been undertaken without religion"

His point was, the former is much harder to answer than the latter, since religion gives people a mandate and self-authority that they simply would not have had otherwise.
Angry_Bird
Posts: 64
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3/9/2015 1:44:08 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 3/9/2015 12:43:49 PM, YamaVonKarma wrote:
Why do I hate most religions? It's quite simple really. I hate anyone forcing their religion on another person and most religious cultures I have seen command such.

You see, I was raised in a heavily Christian family. And from a young age, I was told to study the bible. At one point, I could recite the book of Psalms entirely from memory. And every single time those words came of my tongue, they sickened me. Knowing all the hatred and crimes that had been inspired by those words soured my taste for religions.

Luckily, my family began noticing my growing discontent and allowed me to stop being subjugated to that life. Yet the world is still bound by the chains I once was. Bigotry, and racism are still being fueled by these worthless books.

In America, homosexuals and people of miscellaneous sexes are being refused their human rights in the name of Christianity.

http://www.theblaze.com...

http://www.huffingtonpost.com...

In the Middle East, Islam is being used as a call to savagery.

Hmm... Judaism is a bit more shaky recently. I mean Israel has certainly been a part of some rather shady s**t involving Palestine. But not so much as to warrant hatred as of now.

So I present a challenge. Show me how religion positively impacts this world more than it negatively impacts it.

Religion is like a pill, you can swallow it and it may heal many ailments but if you chew on it, you with throw it up.

Sounds as though you have been doing bit of chewing,, Great !
Envisage
Posts: 3,646
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3/9/2015 1:49:08 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 3/9/2015 1:42:33 PM, johnlubba wrote:
At 3/9/2015 1:22:51 PM, Envisage wrote:
On a more serious note, Christopher Hitchens had a challenge:

"Show me a good moral act, that could or was undertaken in the name of religion, that could not have been undertaken without religion"

A good or moral act undertaken in the name of religion that could not have been undertaken without religion,

How about, The fact, that if God exists, It would be moral to offer explanations on how to connect with God spiritually? You can not do this without religion, The essence of every religion is to learn how to love God.


If God exists and we choose to ignore Him, rather than try to live good lives in association with religious rules and regulations, This is something someone who isn't religious can not do, therefore it would be immoral to exclude God from your life.

If that's the best you got, and what you got is entirely contingent on the premise of God's existence, then Hitchen's point stands pretty strong. Evil acts are done contingently on the premise that someone's specific God exists, too. Jihad being the obvious one, with a specific moral system with God contingent on God's existance is cited.



In contrast to:

"Show me an evil moral act, undertaken because of religion, that could not have been undertaken without religion"

His point was, the former is much harder to answer than the latter, since religion gives people a mandate and self-authority that they simply would not have had otherwise.
Harikrish
Posts: 11,005
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3/9/2015 1:58:35 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 3/9/2015 1:39:14 PM, popculturepooka wrote:
At 3/9/2015 1:29:46 PM, Harikrish wrote:
At 3/9/2015 12:43:49 PM, YamaVonKarma wrote:
Why do I hate most religions? It's quite simple really. I hate anyone forcing their religion on another person and most religious cultures I have seen command such.

You see, I was raised in a heavily Christian family. And from a young age, I was told to study the bible. At one point, I could recite the book of Psalms entirely from memory. And every single time those words came of my tongue, they sickened me. Knowing all the hatred and crimes that had been inspired by those words soured my taste for religions.

Luckily, my family began noticing my growing discontent and allowed me to stop being subjugated to that life. Yet the world is still bound by the chains I once was. Bigotry, and racism are still being fueled by these worthless books.

In America, homosexuals and people of miscellaneous sexes are being refused their human rights in the name of Christianity.

http://www.theblaze.com...

http://www.huffingtonpost.com...

In the Middle East, Islam is being used as a call to savagery.

Hmm... Judaism is a bit more shaky recently. I mean Israel has certainly been a part of some rather shady s**t involving Palestine. But not so much as to warrant hatred as of now.

So I present a challenge. Show me how religion positively impacts this world more than it negatively impacts it.
The positive influence of religions. It helps us separate the crazies from the not so crazy people. You can group the crazies into Christians and Islamists. The not so crazy are the secularists and atheists.
The negative impact of religion. You cannot get rid of the crazies. There are 2 billion Christians and 1.6 billion Muslims.
Give us another challenge. This was too easy.

Us vs them thinking. Nice. Thought free thinkers were supposed to be against such tribalism.

I gave a balanced view. Pro and Cons of religion just as the thread requested.
johnlubba
Posts: 2,892
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3/9/2015 2:03:38 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 3/9/2015 1:49:08 PM, Envisage wrote:
At 3/9/2015 1:42:33 PM, johnlubba wrote:
At 3/9/2015 1:22:51 PM, Envisage wrote:
On a more serious note, Christopher Hitchens had a challenge:

"Show me a good moral act, that could or was undertaken in the name of religion, that could not have been undertaken without religion"

A good or moral act undertaken in the name of religion that could not have been undertaken without religion,

How about, The fact, that if God exists, It would be moral to offer explanations on how to connect with God spiritually? You can not do this without religion, The essence of every religion is to learn how to love God.


If God exists and we choose to ignore Him, rather than try to live good lives in association with religious rules and regulations, This is something someone who isn't religious can not do, therefore it would be immoral to exclude God from your life.

If that's the best you got, and what you got is entirely contingent on the premise of God's existence, then Hitchen's point stands pretty strong. Evil acts are done contingently on the premise that someone's specific God exists, too. Jihad being the obvious one, with a specific moral system with God contingent on God's existance is cited.

That's really beside the point, regardless if people do some atrocious things in the name of religion, That's shifting the goal posts, The question was not, do good things outweigh bad things regarding religion. The question was,

Name A good or moral act undertaken in the name of religion that could not have been undertaken without religion,

I just did that. Of course the reality rests on weather God exists or not, in which case if He didn't, all religion would be called into question. I take it the question assumes some authenticity to religion.

He can't claim to ask the use of it, Which in the case of God's existence would be very meaningful.




In contrast to:

"Show me an evil moral act, undertaken because of religion, that could not have been undertaken without religion"

His point was, the former is much harder to answer than the latter, since religion gives people a mandate and self-authority that they simply would not have had otherwise.
popculturepooka
Posts: 7,924
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3/9/2015 2:43:15 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 3/9/2015 1:58:35 PM, Harikrish wrote:
At 3/9/2015 1:39:14 PM, popculturepooka wrote:
At 3/9/2015 1:29:46 PM, Harikrish wrote:
At 3/9/2015 12:43:49 PM, YamaVonKarma wrote:
Why do I hate most religions? It's quite simple really. I hate anyone forcing their religion on another person and most religious cultures I have seen command such.

You see, I was raised in a heavily Christian family. And from a young age, I was told to study the bible. At one point, I could recite the book of Psalms entirely from memory. And every single time those words came of my tongue, they sickened me. Knowing all the hatred and crimes that had been inspired by those words soured my taste for religions.

Luckily, my family began noticing my growing discontent and allowed me to stop being subjugated to that life. Yet the world is still bound by the chains I once was. Bigotry, and racism are still being fueled by these worthless books.

In America, homosexuals and people of miscellaneous sexes are being refused their human rights in the name of Christianity.

http://www.theblaze.com...

http://www.huffingtonpost.com...

In the Middle East, Islam is being used as a call to savagery.

Hmm... Judaism is a bit more shaky recently. I mean Israel has certainly been a part of some rather shady s**t involving Palestine. But not so much as to warrant hatred as of now.

So I present a challenge. Show me how religion positively impacts this world more than it negatively impacts it.
The positive influence of religions. It helps us separate the crazies from the not so crazy people. You can group the crazies into Christians and Islamists. The not so crazy are the secularists and atheists.
The negative impact of religion. You cannot get rid of the crazies. There are 2 billion Christians and 1.6 billion Muslims.
Give us another challenge. This was too easy.

Us vs them thinking. Nice. Thought free thinkers were supposed to be against such tribalism.

I gave a balanced view. Pro and Cons of religion just as the thread requested.

You defended tribalism. Nice.
At 10/3/2016 11:49:13 PM, thett3 wrote:
BLACK LIVES MATTER!
RuvDraba
Posts: 6,033
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3/9/2015 3:13:30 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 3/9/2015 12:43:49 PM, YamaVonKarma wrote:
Show me how religion positively impacts this world more than it negatively impacts it.

I'm antitheistic YVK, so I can't make the case over-all.

As I see it, the problem with religion isn't just that it 'forces' beliefs onto others (though it's an abuse to indoctrinate the young and vulnerable, not all faiths force beliefs onto outsiders, and some won't let you in at all unless you're born to the faith.)

The bigger problem is that religion privileges its own, sanctifies willful ignorance, fabricates history, contaminates reason and compassion, fosters anxiety, subjugates the ignorant, exploits the vulnerable, promotes nationalistic supremacism, discourages diversity and persecutes dissent, and provides pseudomoralistic justification to mobilise populations to hatred, bigotry and violence.

There was a time when the rule of law was weak or ineffective, and I think religion helped make nations cohesive. When you don't have a national police-force, and traveling from one side of the nation to the could take weeks, you need something to anchor national identity and morality. I recognise that a shared faith can help with that: a national morality, national myths, national rites, customs and symbols, all bundled into a sacred package.

But that's a legacy benefit. In a modern, multicultural world we have a different understanding of nationhood, a different interpretation of cohesion, and better ways to build it. These days I can see no humanistic benefit religion offers that can't be offered secularly: even religious art is essentially based on nature, relationships and psychology. So we have a lot of very expensive costs and risks, and some atavistic 'benefits' that the religious keep trying to persuade us we still require today.

Some argue that a need for religion is endemic, but I don't think that's quite true. I think people benefit from a degree of self-delusion, and many think magically even knowing it can be misleading. But translating that to a need for religion is like saying everyone has an inner need to smoke drugs. Truer would be to say that if you raise your kids to smoke drugs, they're likely to keep smoking them as adults.
Harikrish
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3/9/2015 3:17:33 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 3/9/2015 2:43:15 PM, popculturepooka wrote:
At 3/9/2015 1:58:35 PM, Harikrish wrote:
At 3/9/2015 1:39:14 PM, popculturepooka wrote:
At 3/9/2015 1:29:46 PM, Harikrish wrote:
At 3/9/2015 12:43:49 PM, YamaVonKarma wrote:
Why do I hate most religions? It's quite simple really. I hate anyone forcing their religion on another person and most religious cultures I have seen command such.

You see, I was raised in a heavily Christian family. And from a young age, I was told to study the bible. At one point, I could recite the book of Psalms entirely from memory. And every single time those words came of my tongue, they sickened me. Knowing all the hatred and crimes that had been inspired by those words soured my taste for religions.

Luckily, my family began noticing my growing discontent and allowed me to stop being subjugated to that life. Yet the world is still bound by the chains I once was. Bigotry, and racism are still being fueled by these worthless books.

In America, homosexuals and people of miscellaneous sexes are being refused their human rights in the name of Christianity.

http://www.theblaze.com...

http://www.huffingtonpost.com...

In the Middle East, Islam is being used as a call to savagery.

Hmm... Judaism is a bit more shaky recently. I mean Israel has certainly been a part of some rather shady s**t involving Palestine. But not so much as to warrant hatred as of now.

So I present a challenge. Show me how religion positively impacts this world more than it negatively impacts it.
The positive influence of religions. It helps us separate the crazies from the not so crazy people. You can group the crazies into Christians and Islamists. The not so crazy are the secularists and atheists.
The negative impact of religion. You cannot get rid of the crazies. There are 2 billion Christians and 1.6 billion Muslims.
Give us another challenge. This was too easy.

Us vs them thinking. Nice. Thought free thinkers were supposed to be against such tribalism.

I gave a balanced view. Pro and Cons of religion just as the thread requested.

You defended tribalism. Nice.
Thanks, I am trying to make friend here. I had a terrible time on all the skeptic forums trying to make skeptics less skeptical..
POPOO5560
Posts: 2,481
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3/9/2015 4:49:13 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 3/9/2015 12:43:49 PM, YamaVonKarma wrote:
Why do I hate most religions? It's quite simple really. I hate anyone forcing their religion on another person and most religious cultures I have seen command such.

You see, I was raised in a heavily Christian family. And from a young age, I was told to study the bible. At one point, I could recite the book of Psalms entirely from memory. And every single time those words came of my tongue, they sickened me. Knowing all the hatred and crimes that had been inspired by those words soured my taste for religions.

Luckily, my family began noticing my growing discontent and allowed me to stop being subjugated to that life. Yet the world is still bound by the chains I once was. Bigotry, and racism are still being fueled by these worthless books.

In America, homosexuals and people of miscellaneous sexes are being refused their human rights in the name of Christianity.

http://www.theblaze.com...

http://www.huffingtonpost.com...

In the Middle East, Islam is being used as a call to savagery.

Hmm... Judaism is a bit more shaky recently. I mean Israel has certainly been a part of some rather shady s**t involving Palestine. But not so much as to warrant hatred as of now.

So I present a challenge. Show me how religion positively impacts this world more than it negatively impacts it.

LOL look who is talking... first you generalizing every group of billions? thats shows how stupid person can become, seconly do you know what Buddhists doing to Muslims in burma? to Communists? Thailand? in Myanmar? in Sri Lanka?Tibet? now i going to blame like a kid "everywhere you guys living in you just making problems"?? the hypocrite cant see his own hypocrisy.

Of mankind we may say in general they are fickle, hypocritical, and greedy of gain.

Niccolo Machiavelli
Never fart near dog
Vox_Veritas
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3/9/2015 5:03:07 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 3/9/2015 12:43:49 PM, YamaVonKarma wrote:
Why do I hate most religions? It's quite simple really. I hate anyone forcing their religion on another person and most religious cultures I have seen command such.

You see, I was raised in a heavily Christian family. And from a young age, I was told to study the bible. At one point, I could recite the book of Psalms entirely from memory. And every single time those words came of my tongue, they sickened me. Knowing all the hatred and crimes that had been inspired by those words soured my taste for religions.

Luckily, my family began noticing my growing discontent and allowed me to stop being subjugated to that life. Yet the world is still bound by the chains I once was. Bigotry, and racism are still being fueled by these worthless books.

In America, homosexuals and people of miscellaneous sexes are being refused their human rights in the name of Christianity.

http://www.theblaze.com...

http://www.huffingtonpost.com...

In the Middle East, Islam is being used as a call to savagery.

Hmm... Judaism is a bit more shaky recently. I mean Israel has certainly been a part of some rather shady s**t involving Palestine. But not so much as to warrant hatred as of now.

So I present a challenge. Show me how religion positively impacts this world more than it negatively impacts it.

Religion has served as a stabilizing forces throughout history. People believed that their King had a divine right to rule, and that they'd pretty much go to Hell if they rebelled against their King who God had established. Without such a religious influence, people would've likely revolted against their leaders every decade or two. Mighty kingdoms like Ancient China and Ancient Egypt would not exist, or if they did they would not be nearly as strong. Great wonders which lasted to this day would not have been built. That is, it brought about unquestioning obedience to authority for all but the criminal aspects of society. In a democratic world we look down upon this concept, but authoritarian kingships have had several advantages, such as unity and strength. Such a degree of this historically would not be possible without organized religion. It would only be a slight exaggeration to say that if there were never religion we might be living in a chaotic, anarchist world today.
Also, there's morality. The idea of "Let's be moral just for the heck of it" is a modern one and is not rooted in human nature. Though professing religion, most people today do not take their religion nearly as seriously as people historically did. In societies where most people believed that they'd be struck down from Heaven for "wicked thoughts" there was probably a lower crime rate. In the absence of a comfortable modern society, religion has been quite useful for this purpose. Those who did criminal stuff historically were generally those who stayed away from churches.
And, of course, there's the matter of it providing a sense of purpose to those people who would otherwise feel their lives are without meaning, something that even modern society has failed to cure.
And also, historically diseases like Syphilis would probably be a lot more rampant had it not been for church teachings on sexuality.
Historically, religion has even been beneficial to intellectual matters. Clergymen historically have been disproportionately represented among intellectuals. The reason for this, in part, was because Holy Texts and theological concepts were studied almost obsessively by holymen, which made for an environment ripe for intellectual thinking. During the Middle Ages, many manuscripts were preserved by religious groups and clergymen.
A unified Islamic world obviously would not have happened without Islam; this brought about increased communications and exchange of knowledge from area to area in the Islamic world; without this, it's possible that many of the great Islamic thinkers would not have been. Also, the Renaissance happened because the forces of Islam conquered Constantinople and forced Byzantine intellectuals to flee to Europe.

So you see, in spite of religious wars, historically religion has been a glue which held societies together and influenced them positively overall.

Of course, that was in the past. The question that you seem to be asking is whether or not religion is good today.
Well, let's look at the facts.
Religion still provides that sense of purpose. So it does that. Comfortable modern society, while convenient, cannot solve this problem, as even people who have everything have expressed a sense of meaninglessness. Even if many people don't seem to need a purpose or sense of purpose, others do.
The average religious person still does, on average, give more money to charitable endeavors. Even money donated to churches often ends up in the form of charity.
You might protest by mentioning something like Creationism. While I do not believe Creationism to be false, even if I accepted that it were, it is not significantly influential enough to hold American society back that much, and its influence is declining, if ever slowly.
The Religious Right's treatment of gay people has been harsh at times, but this is lessening, and it's not enough to negate the positive influence that religion plays on American society. Besides, this can be reversed by simply changing the perspective of the Church.

Ah yes; the Muslim World. While human nature, poverty, and tribalism plays a bigger role in their condition than Islam itself, Islam has provided the diversity (Sunni vs. Shia) needed for encouraging conflict.
Don't forget that until 1922 the Muslim world was not filled with civil war, so surely it can change.
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TN05
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3/9/2015 5:12:24 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 3/9/2015 12:43:49 PM, YamaVonKarma wrote:
Why do I hate most religions? It's quite simple really. I hate anyone forcing their religion on another person and most religious cultures I have seen command such.

You see, I was raised in a heavily Christian family. And from a young age, I was told to study the bible. At one point, I could recite the book of Psalms entirely from memory. And every single time those words came of my tongue, they sickened me. Knowing all the hatred and crimes that had been inspired by those words soured my taste for religions.

Luckily, my family began noticing my growing discontent and allowed me to stop being subjugated to that life. Yet the world is still bound by the chains I once was. Bigotry, and racism are still being fueled by these worthless books.

In America, homosexuals and people of miscellaneous sexes are being refused their human rights in the name of Christianity.

http://www.theblaze.com...

http://www.huffingtonpost.com...

In the Middle East, Islam is being used as a call to savagery.

Hmm... Judaism is a bit more shaky recently. I mean Israel has certainly been a part of some rather shady s**t involving Palestine. But not so much as to warrant hatred as of now.

So I present a challenge. Show me how religion positively impacts this world more than it negatively impacts it.

Charity work.
Skepsikyma
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3/9/2015 6:07:51 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 3/9/2015 5:03:07 PM, Vox_Veritas wrote:
At 3/9/2015 12:43:49 PM, YamaVonKarma wrote:
Why do I hate most religions? It's quite simple really. I hate anyone forcing their religion on another person and most religious cultures I have seen command such.

You see, I was raised in a heavily Christian family. And from a young age, I was told to study the bible. At one point, I could recite the book of Psalms entirely from memory. And every single time those words came of my tongue, they sickened me. Knowing all the hatred and crimes that had been inspired by those words soured my taste for religions.

Luckily, my family began noticing my growing discontent and allowed me to stop being subjugated to that life. Yet the world is still bound by the chains I once was. Bigotry, and racism are still being fueled by these worthless books.

In America, homosexuals and people of miscellaneous sexes are being refused their human rights in the name of Christianity.

http://www.theblaze.com...

http://www.huffingtonpost.com...

In the Middle East, Islam is being used as a call to savagery.

Hmm... Judaism is a bit more shaky recently. I mean Israel has certainly been a part of some rather shady s**t involving Palestine. But not so much as to warrant hatred as of now.

So I present a challenge. Show me how religion positively impacts this world more than it negatively impacts it.

Religion has served as a stabilizing forces throughout history. [...]

This post sums up a lot of what I wanted to say. I see Kurt Vonnegut's Cat's Cradle as, in part, an exploration of the necessity of religious belief, especially through the allegorical religion of Bokononism. This is a religion which admits that it is utterly fabricated ('foma', meaning harmless untruths), but which gave the people of a fictional, destitute island meaning which they could not have found elsewhere. It's sacred texts are laid out in calypso form, and this is probably the most apt one for the topic of hand is:

Tiger got to hunt,
Bird got to fly;
Man got to sit and wonder, "Why, why, why?"

Tiger got to sleep,
Bird got to land;
Man got to tell himself he understand.

Religion is just a set of answers which many people give themselves. That makes it useful in a variety of ways, not entirely good or bad.
"The Collectivist experiment is thoroughly suited (in appearance at least) to the Capitalist society which it proposes to replace. It works with the existing machinery of Capitalism, talks and thinks in the existing terms of Capitalism, appeals to just those appetites which Capitalism has aroused, and ridicules as fantastic and unheard-of just those things in society the memory of which Capitalism has killed among men wherever the blight of it has spread."
- Hilaire Belloc -
UtherPenguin
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3/9/2015 6:09:26 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 3/9/2015 12:43:49 PM, YamaVonKarma wrote:
Why do I hate most religions? It's quite simple really. I hate anyone forcing their religion on another person and most religious cultures I have seen command such.

You see, I was raised in a heavily Christian family. And from a young age, I was told to study the bible. At one point, I could recite the book of Psalms entirely from memory. And every single time those words came of my tongue, they sickened me. Knowing all the hatred and crimes that had been inspired by those words soured my taste for religions.

Luckily, my family began noticing my growing discontent and allowed me to stop being subjugated to that life. Yet the world is still bound by the chains I once was. Bigotry, and racism are still being fueled by these worthless books.

In America, homosexuals and people of miscellaneous sexes are being refused their human rights in the name of Christianity.

http://www.theblaze.com...

http://www.huffingtonpost.com...

In the Middle East, Islam is being used as a call to savagery.

Hmm... Judaism is a bit more shaky recently. I mean Israel has certainly been a part of some rather shady s**t involving Palestine. But not so much as to warrant hatred as of now.

So I present a challenge. Show me how religion positively impacts this world more than it negatively impacts it.

I'm not sure if it is late too join this discussion but I'll go over a few of my basic arguments:

1. Religion appeals to morality.

When done correctly religion appeals to a person own morality, it gives them restraint and teaches them self control, In Christianity you have various commandments of the Bible such as " Thou shall not Kill" "Thou shall not steal" and "Thou shall not bear false witness to thine neighbour"
Despite the Crusades when people misused religion for their own gain, that only occurred when religious authority abused their power.

This isn't only present in Christianity, In Islam there are 5 pillars (actions required to be a muslim) of one of those five pillars is "Zakat", Muslims with income are obligated to give monthly charity to the poor (amount of which depends on income)

2. Religion teaches self-control

This is more like an extension to my previous argument, religion people self control and appeals to ones selfless emotions. Like Christianity, Islam does not allow sexual intercourse until marriage. This leads to a Muslim being forced to suppress sexual tendencies until the age of marriage and encourages modesty; look at Western Media for example, Society has a tendency to profusely over-sexualize women, treating them as sex-objects who are supposed to submit to you. This is why Muslim women are obligated to where the hijab, it helps suppress her sexual urges as it does for a man. Compare this to many Muslim societies in which women are not treated in an overly sexuality manner.

3. Religion teaches modesty and respect

Many followers of Confucianism strive to reach of becoming "Junzi" meaning "gentleman" or "better person", to reach this point one is obligated to know their hierarchical standing in society and appropriately act accordingly, the son is obligated to respect the father and the father is obligated to take care of the son. Filial piety in which the Son is obligated to uphold their father with reverential respect. Hence through this piety society becomes modest and respectful.
"Change your sig."
~YYW
Vox_Veritas
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3/9/2015 6:15:25 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 3/9/2015 6:07:51 PM, Skepsikyma wrote:
At 3/9/2015 5:03:07 PM, Vox_Veritas wrote:
At 3/9/2015 12:43:49 PM, YamaVonKarma wrote:
Why do I hate most religions? It's quite simple really. I hate anyone forcing their religion on another person and most religious cultures I have seen command such.

You see, I was raised in a heavily Christian family. And from a young age, I was told to study the bible. At one point, I could recite the book of Psalms entirely from memory. And every single time those words came of my tongue, they sickened me. Knowing all the hatred and crimes that had been inspired by those words soured my taste for religions.

Luckily, my family began noticing my growing discontent and allowed me to stop being subjugated to that life. Yet the world is still bound by the chains I once was. Bigotry, and racism are still being fueled by these worthless books.

In America, homosexuals and people of miscellaneous sexes are being refused their human rights in the name of Christianity.

http://www.theblaze.com...

http://www.huffingtonpost.com...

In the Middle East, Islam is being used as a call to savagery.

Hmm... Judaism is a bit more shaky recently. I mean Israel has certainly been a part of some rather shady s**t involving Palestine. But not so much as to warrant hatred as of now.

So I present a challenge. Show me how religion positively impacts this world more than it negatively impacts it.

Religion has served as a stabilizing forces throughout history. [...]

This post sums up a lot of what I wanted to say. I see Kurt Vonnegut's Cat's Cradle as, in part, an exploration of the necessity of religious belief, especially through the allegorical religion of Bokononism. This is a religion which admits that it is utterly fabricated ('foma', meaning harmless untruths), but which gave the people of a fictional, destitute island meaning which they could not have found elsewhere. It's sacred texts are laid out in calypso form, and this is probably the most apt one for the topic of hand is:

Tiger got to hunt,
Bird got to fly;
Man got to sit and wonder, "Why, why, why?"

Tiger got to sleep,
Bird got to land;
Man got to tell himself he understand.

Religion is just a set of answers which many people give themselves. That makes it useful in a variety of ways, not entirely good or bad.

I made no "admission" of religion being false; I was merely stating its physical benefits.
Call me Vox, the Resident Contrarian of debate.org.

The DDO Blog:
https://debatedotorg.wordpress.com...

#drinkthecoffeenotthekoolaid
Skepsikyma
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3/9/2015 6:19:17 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 3/9/2015 6:15:25 PM, Vox_Veritas wrote:
At 3/9/2015 6:07:51 PM, Skepsikyma wrote:
At 3/9/2015 5:03:07 PM, Vox_Veritas wrote:
At 3/9/2015 12:43:49 PM, YamaVonKarma wrote:
Why do I hate most religions? It's quite simple really. I hate anyone forcing their religion on another person and most religious cultures I have seen command such.

You see, I was raised in a heavily Christian family. And from a young age, I was told to study the bible. At one point, I could recite the book of Psalms entirely from memory. And every single time those words came of my tongue, they sickened me. Knowing all the hatred and crimes that had been inspired by those words soured my taste for religions.

Luckily, my family began noticing my growing discontent and allowed me to stop being subjugated to that life. Yet the world is still bound by the chains I once was. Bigotry, and racism are still being fueled by these worthless books.

In America, homosexuals and people of miscellaneous sexes are being refused their human rights in the name of Christianity.

http://www.theblaze.com...

http://www.huffingtonpost.com...

In the Middle East, Islam is being used as a call to savagery.

Hmm... Judaism is a bit more shaky recently. I mean Israel has certainly been a part of some rather shady s**t involving Palestine. But not so much as to warrant hatred as of now.

So I present a challenge. Show me how religion positively impacts this world more than it negatively impacts it.

Religion has served as a stabilizing forces throughout history. [...]

This post sums up a lot of what I wanted to say. I see Kurt Vonnegut's Cat's Cradle as, in part, an exploration of the necessity of religious belief, especially through the allegorical religion of Bokononism. This is a religion which admits that it is utterly fabricated ('foma', meaning harmless untruths), but which gave the people of a fictional, destitute island meaning which they could not have found elsewhere. It's sacred texts are laid out in calypso form, and this is probably the most apt one for the topic of hand is:

Tiger got to hunt,
Bird got to fly;
Man got to sit and wonder, "Why, why, why?"

Tiger got to sleep,
Bird got to land;
Man got to tell himself he understand.

Religion is just a set of answers which many people give themselves. That makes it useful in a variety of ways, not entirely good or bad.

I made no "admission" of religion being false; I was merely stating its physical benefits.

I know. I was just underlining the fact that, even if the claims of religion are false, it can still be beneficial. That its good qualities do not depend on its truth. Your post touched on most of the relevant examples of the benefits which religion can provide.
"The Collectivist experiment is thoroughly suited (in appearance at least) to the Capitalist society which it proposes to replace. It works with the existing machinery of Capitalism, talks and thinks in the existing terms of Capitalism, appeals to just those appetites which Capitalism has aroused, and ridicules as fantastic and unheard-of just those things in society the memory of which Capitalism has killed among men wherever the blight of it has spread."
- Hilaire Belloc -
Vox_Veritas
Posts: 7,065
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3/9/2015 6:20:26 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 3/9/2015 6:19:17 PM, Skepsikyma wrote:
At 3/9/2015 6:15:25 PM, Vox_Veritas wrote:
At 3/9/2015 6:07:51 PM, Skepsikyma wrote:
At 3/9/2015 5:03:07 PM, Vox_Veritas wrote:
At 3/9/2015 12:43:49 PM, YamaVonKarma wrote:
Why do I hate most religions? It's quite simple really. I hate anyone forcing their religion on another person and most religious cultures I have seen command such.

You see, I was raised in a heavily Christian family. And from a young age, I was told to study the bible. At one point, I could recite the book of Psalms entirely from memory. And every single time those words came of my tongue, they sickened me. Knowing all the hatred and crimes that had been inspired by those words soured my taste for religions.

Luckily, my family began noticing my growing discontent and allowed me to stop being subjugated to that life. Yet the world is still bound by the chains I once was. Bigotry, and racism are still being fueled by these worthless books.

In America, homosexuals and people of miscellaneous sexes are being refused their human rights in the name of Christianity.

http://www.theblaze.com...

http://www.huffingtonpost.com...

In the Middle East, Islam is being used as a call to savagery.

Hmm... Judaism is a bit more shaky recently. I mean Israel has certainly been a part of some rather shady s**t involving Palestine. But not so much as to warrant hatred as of now.

So I present a challenge. Show me how religion positively impacts this world more than it negatively impacts it.

Religion has served as a stabilizing forces throughout history. [...]

This post sums up a lot of what I wanted to say. I see Kurt Vonnegut's Cat's Cradle as, in part, an exploration of the necessity of religious belief, especially through the allegorical religion of Bokononism. This is a religion which admits that it is utterly fabricated ('foma', meaning harmless untruths), but which gave the people of a fictional, destitute island meaning which they could not have found elsewhere. It's sacred texts are laid out in calypso form, and this is probably the most apt one for the topic of hand is:

Tiger got to hunt,
Bird got to fly;
Man got to sit and wonder, "Why, why, why?"

Tiger got to sleep,
Bird got to land;
Man got to tell himself he understand.

Religion is just a set of answers which many people give themselves. That makes it useful in a variety of ways, not entirely good or bad.

I made no "admission" of religion being false; I was merely stating its physical benefits.

I know. I was just underlining the fact that, even if the claims of religion are false, it can still be beneficial. That its good qualities do not depend on its truth. Your post touched on most of the relevant examples of the benefits which religion can provide.

Okay.
Call me Vox, the Resident Contrarian of debate.org.

The DDO Blog:
https://debatedotorg.wordpress.com...

#drinkthecoffeenotthekoolaid
tkubok
Posts: 5,044
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3/9/2015 6:54:15 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 3/9/2015 2:03:38 PM, johnlubba wrote:
At 3/9/2015 1:49:08 PM, Envisage wrote:
At 3/9/2015 1:42:33 PM, johnlubba wrote:
At 3/9/2015 1:22:51 PM, Envisage wrote:
On a more serious note, Christopher Hitchens had a challenge:

"Show me a good moral act, that could or was undertaken in the name of religion, that could not have been undertaken without religion"

A good or moral act undertaken in the name of religion that could not have been undertaken without religion,

How about, The fact, that if God exists, It would be moral to offer explanations on how to connect with God spiritually? You can not do this without religion, The essence of every religion is to learn how to love God.


If God exists and we choose to ignore Him, rather than try to live good lives in association with religious rules and regulations, This is something someone who isn't religious can not do, therefore it would be immoral to exclude God from your life.

If that's the best you got, and what you got is entirely contingent on the premise of God's existence, then Hitchen's point stands pretty strong. Evil acts are done contingently on the premise that someone's specific God exists, too. Jihad being the obvious one, with a specific moral system with God contingent on God's existance is cited.

That's really beside the point, regardless if people do some atrocious things in the name of religion, That's shifting the goal posts, The question was not, do good things outweigh bad things regarding religion. The question was,

Name A good or moral act undertaken in the name of religion that could not have been undertaken without religion,

I just did that. Of course the reality rests on weather God exists or not, in which case if He didn't, all religion would be called into question. I take it the question assumes some authenticity to religion.

He can't claim to ask the use of it, Which in the case of God's existence would be very meaningful.

I think you missed the whole "In contrast to" part. That part isnt just an addendum, its part of the argument.
RuvDraba
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3/9/2015 7:06:27 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 3/9/2015 6:09:26 PM, UtherPenguin wrote:
1. Religion appeals to morality.

As does a secular moral education.

2. Religion teaches self-control

As do sports or martial arts.

3. Religion teaches modesty and respect

As does any values-based leadership training.
DanneJeRusse
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3/9/2015 7:56:48 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 3/9/2015 6:09:26 PM, UtherPenguin wrote:

1. Religion appeals to morality.

When done correctly religion appeals to a person own morality, it gives them restraint and teaches them self control, In Christianity you have various commandments of the Bible such as " Thou shall not Kill" "Thou shall not steal" and "Thou shall not bear false witness to thine neighbour"

Unfortunately, religions don't explain why you shouldn't kill or steal, it simply commands you not to do so, kind of like programming a robot.

Without religion, one must use their brains to think and rationalize why they shouldn't kill or steal, hence they understand as opposed to being commanded and not understanding.

Despite the Crusades when people misused religion for their own gain, that only occurred when religious authority abused their power.

Religious authorities constantly abuse their power.

This isn't only present in Christianity, In Islam there are 5 pillars (actions required to be a muslim) of one of those five pillars is "Zakat", Muslims with income are obligated to give monthly charity to the poor (amount of which depends on income)

Yes, they MUST give money to the poor as opposed to those without religion who give to the poor because they understand their predicament and want to help as opposed to being commanded to help and not understanding why.

2. Religion teaches self-control

This is more like an extension to my previous argument, religion people self control and appeals to ones selfless emotions. Like Christianity, Islam does not allow sexual intercourse until marriage. This leads to a Muslim being forced to suppress sexual tendencies until the age of marriage and encourages modesty;

Yet, Muslim countries are the highest users of internet porn because they're sexually repressed by their religion and just can't seem to control themselves. Fancy that.

look at Western Media for example, Society has a tendency to profusely over-sexualize women, treating them as sex-objects who are supposed to submit to you.

LOL. Where have you been hiding these past fifty years?

This is why Muslim women are obligated to where the hijab, it helps suppress her sexual urges as it does for a man.

LOL. Sorry, but the hijab is a misogynist throwback from long ago, when men treated women like cattle and furniture. I guess they still do in Muslim countries.

Compare this to many Muslim societies in which women are not treated in an overly sexuality manner.

There is no comparison. It's an insult to women.

3. Religion teaches modesty and respect

Many followers of Confucianism strive to reach of becoming "Junzi" meaning "gentleman" or "better person", to reach this point one is obligated to know their hierarchical standing in society and appropriately act accordingly, the son is obligated to respect the father and the father is obligated to take care of the son. Filial piety in which the Son is obligated to uphold their father with reverential respect. Hence through this piety society becomes modest and respectful.

Sorry, but none of your examples of what religion is supposed to teach actually has any bearing on reality, and usually winds up making things worse for societies.

There was a story today about an Imam who beat senseless a pregnant women, killing the unborn child as a result, all in the name of religion.

It was a nice attempt at religious propaganda, but it failed miserably.
Marrying a 6 year old and waiting until she reaches puberty and maturity before having consensual sex is better than walking up to
a stranger in a bar and proceeding to have relations with no valid proof of the intent of the person. Muhammad wins. ~ Fatihah
If they don't want to be killed then they have to subdue to the Islamic laws. - Uncung
Without God, you are lower than sh!t. ~ SpiritandTruth
UtherPenguin
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3/9/2015 7:56:58 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 3/9/2015 7:06:27 PM, RuvDraba wrote:
At 3/9/2015 6:09:26 PM, UtherPenguin wrote:
1. Religion appeals to morality.

As does a secular moral education.

2. Religion teaches self-control

As do sports or martial arts.

3. Religion teaches modesty and respect

As does any values-based leadership training.

True, but such is not a reason to disregard Religion's positive impact.
"Change your sig."
~YYW
RuvDraba
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3/9/2015 8:03:02 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 3/9/2015 7:56:58 PM, UtherPenguin wrote:
At 3/9/2015 7:06:27 PM, RuvDraba wrote:
At 3/9/2015 6:09:26 PM, UtherPenguin wrote:
1. Religion appeals to morality.
As does a secular moral education.
2. Religion teaches self-control
As do sports or martial arts.
3. Religion teaches modesty and respect
As does any values-based leadership training.
True, but such is not a reason to disregard Religion's positive impact.

Obesity can have a positive impact too -- it's great in tug-of-war matches, for example, or for making a big splash in swimming-pools -- but it's still an unhealthy way to live, and we don't normally focus on potential benefits while ignoring real costs. :)
Illegalcombatant
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3/9/2015 8:03:47 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
If people have good reasons or think they do for supporting what ever they will tell what those reasons are.

When they don't........................then they play the God/faith card.
"Seems like another attempt to insert God into areas our knowledge has yet to penetrate. You figure God would be bigger than the gaps of our ignorance." Drafterman 19/5/12
UtherPenguin
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3/9/2015 8:16:29 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 3/9/2015 8:03:02 PM, RuvDraba wrote:
At 3/9/2015 7:56:58 PM, UtherPenguin wrote:
At 3/9/2015 7:06:27 PM, RuvDraba wrote:
At 3/9/2015 6:09:26 PM, UtherPenguin wrote:
1. Religion appeals to morality.
As does a secular moral education.
2. Religion teaches self-control
As do sports or martial arts.
3. Religion teaches modesty and respect
As does any values-based leadership training.
True, but such is not a reason to disregard Religion's positive impact.

Obesity can have a positive impact too -- it's great in tug-of-war matches, for example, or for making a big splash in swimming-pools -- but it's still an unhealthy way to live, and we don't normally focus on potential benefits while ignoring real costs. :)

Whether or not Religion is beneficial in the same manner as obesity is debatable.
"Change your sig."
~YYW
dee-em
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3/9/2015 8:27:46 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 3/9/2015 1:22:51 PM, Envisage wrote:
On a more serious note, Christopher Hitchens had a challenge:

"Show me a good moral act, that could or was undertaken in the name of religion, that could not have been undertaken without religion"

In contrast to:

"Show me an evil moral act, undertaken because of religion, that could not have been undertaken without religion"

His point was, the former is much harder to answer than the latter, since religion gives people a mandate and self-authority that they simply would not have had otherwise.

I'm fairly sure the bolded underlined word should not be there.