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Didn't sin, couldn't sin ?

Angry_Bird
Posts: 64
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3/12/2015 5:19:47 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
Romans 5:19(KJV)
19)
For as by one man's disobedience many were made sinners, so by the obedience of one shall many be made righteous.

"One man" and "One".. Adam and Jesus?, One man and One what?, God ?

Acts 13:25(KJV)
25)
And as John (the Baptizer) fulfilled his course, he said, Whom think ye that I am? I am not he. But, behold, there cometh "ONE" after me, whose shoes of his feet I am not worthy to loose.

1John 5:7(KJV)
7)
For there are three that bear record in Heaven: the Father, the Word, and the Holy Ghost; and these three are "ONE".

Could Jesus have been three in "One", the Fullness of the Godhead ?, Jesus being the "word". that dwelt among us.

Colossians 2:9
9)
For in him dwelleth all the fulness of the Godhead bodily.

(THE NAME ELOHIM (GOD) IN THE TANAKH IS IN HEBREW PLURAL, IT IS PLURAL FOR EL, OR POSSIBLY ELOAH, PLURAL IN HEBREW MEANS AT LEAST THREE OR MORE)

On the strength of these verses which I believe to have taken in the correct context, I conclude that in biblical terms , Jesus is the "One God" who has made (and may continue to make) "Many righteous"

"One" had to firstly live and die "sin free". fulfill the law, thus fulfill all righteousness,

How could "One" manage to do this when everybody beforehand had failed to do so in this fallen world?
Romans 3:23(KJV)
23)
For all have sinned, and come short of the glory of God;

Please note, Romans 5:19 provides no reference to Eve (Woman) playing a part in making anyone a "sinner" through her actions.

The Woman eve was beguiled, but Adam the Man on the other hand was not, he freely and openly sinned through choice, disobeying his God by opting to partake of the forbidden fruit, presented by the spiritually dead Woman.

So by Adam's disobedience, Men pass on the sin nature to their offspring.

The Father of Jesus was God the Father, who had no sin nature to pass, and Mary being a Woman, as written in scripture, was unable to pass on her inherited sin nature to Jesus, "BY ONE MAN'S (Adam's) DISOBEDIENCE MANY WERE MADE SINNERS".

If I you feel I have taken these bible scriptures out of context, Please show me where the (kjv) scriptures contradict my understanding.
JJ50
Posts: 2,144
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3/12/2015 5:32:46 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
'Sin' is a very silly little word as it often describes as 'sinful' things that no reasonable person would think wrong, like homosexuality or adult sex before marriage .

We all do things which are wrong and should try to make amends to anyone we have wronged. The deity, if it exists, should be apologising to the human race for screwing up so badly if the deeds attributed to it in the Bible have any veracity!
Angry_Bird
Posts: 64
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3/12/2015 5:58:28 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 3/12/2015 5:32:46 AM, JJ50 wrote:
'Sin' is a very silly little word as it often describes as 'sinful' things that no reasonable person would think wrong, like homosexuality or adult sex before marriage .

We all do things which are wrong and should try to make amends to anyone we have wronged. The deity, if it exists, should be apologising to the human race for screwing up so badly if the deeds attributed to it in the Bible have any veracity!

People have a right to label "sin" as being whatever they choose, I know a man with layers of Fat on his body who calls leaving a silly little cake on the table uneaten is a sin, but it doesn't mean he is right,

So for me God and not the overweight cake eater must be the source for truth.

John 3:4
Whosoever committeth sin transgresseth also the law: for sin is the transgression of the law.

So to conclude, whoever treats the word "sin" as being a "silly little word" is guilty of being brainwashed by silly little people, some of whom eat silly little cakes.
Thank you for your reply, Victim!.
Composer
Posts: 5,858
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3/12/2015 7:04:53 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 3/12/2015 5:19:47 AM, Angry_Bird wrote:
Romans 5:19(KJV)
19)
For as by one man's disobedience many were made sinners, . . . .
Deut. 24:16 & Ezek. 18:20 contradict that!

At 3/12/2015 5:19:47 AM, Angry_Bird wrote:
1John 5:7(KJV)
7)
For there are three that bear record in Heaven: the Father, the Word, and the Holy Ghost; and these three are "ONE".

If I you feel I have taken these bible scriptures out of context, Please show me where the (kjv) scriptures contradict my understanding.
Diaglott Footnotes p. 803 reads: The received text reads, "For there are three that bear witness in heaven, the Father, the Word, and the Holy Spirit, and these three are one. And there are three that bear witness in earth." This text concerning the heavenly witnesses is not contained in any Greek manuscript, which was written earlier than the 15th century. It is not cited by any of the Greek ecclesiastical writers; nor by any of the early Latin Fathers, even when the subjects upon which they treat would naturally have led them to appeal to its authority. It is therefore evidently spurious ; and was first cited (though not as it now reads) by Vigilius Tapsensis, a Latin writer of no credit, in the latter end of the fifth century ; but by whom forged, is of no great moment, as its design must be obvious to all. - Improved Version.

In other words, it is a fake!
JJ50
Posts: 2,144
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3/12/2015 7:45:54 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 3/12/2015 5:58:28 AM, Angry_Bird wrote:
At 3/12/2015 5:32:46 AM, JJ50 wrote:
'Sin' is a very silly little word as it often describes as 'sinful' things that no reasonable person would think wrong, like homosexuality or adult sex before marriage .

We all do things which are wrong and should try to make amends to anyone we have wronged. The deity, if it exists, should be apologising to the human race for screwing up so badly if the deeds attributed to it in the Bible have any veracity!

People have a right to label "sin" as being whatever they choose, I know a man with layers of Fat on his body who calls leaving a silly little cake on the table uneaten is a sin, but it doesn't mean he is right,

So for me God and not the overweight cake eater must be the source for truth.

John 3:4
Whosoever committeth sin transgresseth also the law: for sin is the transgression of the law.

So to conclude, whoever treats the word "sin" as being a "silly little word" is guilty of being brainwashed by silly little people, some of whom eat silly little cakes.
Thank you for your reply, Victim!.

I think you are the victim of being very gullible, you poor thing!
MadCornishBiker
Posts: 23,302
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3/12/2015 9:39:05 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 3/12/2015 5:19:47 AM, Angry_Bird wrote:
Romans 5:19(KJV)
19)
For as by one man's disobedience many were made sinners, so by the obedience of one shall many be made righteous.

"One man" and "One".. Adam and Jesus?, One man and One what?, God ?

Acts 13:25(KJV)
25)
And as John (the Baptizer) fulfilled his course, he said, Whom think ye that I am? I am not he. But, behold, there cometh "ONE" after me, whose shoes of his feet I am not worthy to loose.

1John 5:7(KJV)
7)
For there are three that bear record in Heaven: the Father, the Word, and the Holy Ghost; and these three are "ONE".

Could Jesus have been three in "One", the Fullness of the Godhead ?, Jesus being the "word". that dwelt among us.

Colossians 2:9
9)
For in him dwelleth all the fulness of the Godhead bodily.

(THE NAME ELOHIM (GOD) IN THE TANAKH IS IN HEBREW PLURAL, IT IS PLURAL FOR EL, OR POSSIBLY ELOAH, PLURAL IN HEBREW MEANS AT LEAST THREE OR MORE)

On the strength of these verses which I believe to have taken in the correct context, I conclude that in biblical terms , Jesus is the "One God" who has made (and may continue to make) "Many righteous"

"One" had to firstly live and die "sin free". fulfill the law, thus fulfill all righteousness,

How could "One" manage to do this when everybody beforehand had failed to do so in this fallen world?
Romans 3:23(KJV)
23)
For all have sinned, and come short of the glory of God;

Please note, Romans 5:19 provides no reference to Eve (Woman) playing a part in making anyone a "sinner" through her actions.

The Woman eve was beguiled, but Adam the Man on the other hand was not, he freely and openly sinned through choice, disobeying his God by opting to partake of the forbidden fruit, presented by the spiritually dead Woman.

So by Adam's disobedience, Men pass on the sin nature to their offspring.

The Father of Jesus was God the Father, who had no sin nature to pass, and Mary being a Woman, as written in scripture, was unable to pass on her inherited sin nature to Jesus, "BY ONE MAN'S (Adam's) DISOBEDIENCE MANY WERE MADE SINNERS".

If I you feel I have taken these bible scriptures out of context, Please show me where the (kjv) scriptures contradict my understanding.

I'm not sure you haven't slightly mistaken what scripture says about these things.

It is true Christ was born sinless, because he was especially created in Mary's womb.
However it is not sure whether or not Mary could have passed sin on. The male of the species hold the responsibility for it because of the headship principle, started off by Eve being given to Adam and Adam being given the responsibility to teach Eve, something which has never changed.

Whilst it is very true that Christ did not sin, it is not true to say he could not. Only his loyalty to, and obedience to his loving father and creator prevented him from doing so.

If that were not the case where does obedience some into it?

We know he was tempted to, on a number of occasions, and scripture confirms that, not only by his temptation in the wilderness when he was at his weakest, a typically cowardly Satanic method, but also by his frequent, fervent prayer to his father for help and support, even at one point asking if he could be allowed to escape what was coming, but acquiescing to his father's will.

The real reason his obedience was such a test for God's son is that, in his pre-human existence , when he dealt with humans on his father's behalf, it was relatively easy for him to be obedient, but as a relatively weak, albeit Adam-like in his perfection, he was tested to the limit, and unlike Adam, did not give in.

The false idea of God's son being other than what he was, literally the son of his father, and the confusion that calls, reduces the glory that Christ deserves for his faithfulness, as much as it takes away glory from his father for his provision of his beloved son to come to the earth and become the Christ as the sacrificial lamb.

Always remember that the Apostles repeatedly gave praise and glory to the father (Jehovah) for the provision of salvation through his son. They gave the son relative honour, but never to the same level as the father (Jehovah).

That is why Jesus made it a matter of eternal life or eternal death that we get to know both his father and himself well. (John 17:3), with no mention, you notice, of holy spirit.
Angry_Bird
Posts: 64
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3/12/2015 9:48:06 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 3/12/2015 7:45:54 AM, JJ50 wrote:
At 3/12/2015 5:58:28 AM, Angry_Bird wrote:
At 3/12/2015 5:32:46 AM, JJ50 wrote:
'Sin' is a very silly little word as it often describes as 'sinful' things that no reasonable person would think wrong, like homosexuality or adult sex before marriage .

We all do things which are wrong and should try to make amends to anyone we have wronged. The deity, if it exists, should be apologising to the human race for screwing up so badly if the deeds attributed to it in the Bible have any veracity

People have a right to label "sin" as being whatever they choose, I know a man with layers of Fat on his body who calls leaving a silly little cake on the table uneaten is a sin, but it doesn't mean he is right,

So for me God and not the overweight cake eater must be the source for truth.

John 3:4
Whosoever committeth sin transgresseth also the law: for sin is the transgression of the law.

So to conclude, whoever treats the word "sin" as being a "silly little word" is guilty of being brainwashed by silly little people, some of whom eat silly little cakes.
Thank you for your reply, Victim!.

I think you are the victim of being very gullible, you poor thing!

After reading your last post, your opinion holds no value with me, you pinned your colours to the mast and your ship sank. Now take a bow and stop bubbling.
bornofgod
Posts: 11,322
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3/12/2015 9:49:35 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 3/12/2015 5:19:47 AM, Angry_Bird wrote:
Romans 5:19(KJV)
19)
For as by one man's disobedience many were made sinners, so by the obedience of one shall many be made righteous.

"One man" and "One".. Adam and Jesus?, One man and One what?, God ?

Acts 13:25(KJV)
25)
And as John (the Baptizer) fulfilled his course, he said, Whom think ye that I am? I am not he. But, behold, there cometh "ONE" after me, whose shoes of his feet I am not worthy to loose.

1John 5:7(KJV)
7)
For there are three that bear record in Heaven: the Father, the Word, and the Holy Ghost; and these three are "ONE".

Could Jesus have been three in "One", the Fullness of the Godhead ?, Jesus being the "word". that dwelt among us.

Colossians 2:9
9)
For in him dwelleth all the fulness of the Godhead bodily.

(THE NAME ELOHIM (GOD) IN THE TANAKH IS IN HEBREW PLURAL, IT IS PLURAL FOR EL, OR POSSIBLY ELOAH, PLURAL IN HEBREW MEANS AT LEAST THREE OR MORE)

On the strength of these verses which I believe to have taken in the correct context, I conclude that in biblical terms , Jesus is the "One God" who has made (and may continue to make) "Many righteous"

"One" had to firstly live and die "sin free". fulfill the law, thus fulfill all righteousness,

How could "One" manage to do this when everybody beforehand had failed to do so in this fallen world?
Romans 3:23(KJV)
23)
For all have sinned, and come short of the glory of God;

Please note, Romans 5:19 provides no reference to Eve (Woman) playing a part in making anyone a "sinner" through her actions.

The Woman eve was beguiled, but Adam the Man on the other hand was not, he freely and openly sinned through choice, disobeying his God by opting to partake of the forbidden fruit, presented by the spiritually dead Woman.

So by Adam's disobedience, Men pass on the sin nature to their offspring.

The Father of Jesus was God the Father, who had no sin nature to pass, and Mary being a Woman, as written in scripture, was unable to pass on her inherited sin nature to Jesus, "BY ONE MAN'S (Adam's) DISOBEDIENCE MANY WERE MADE SINNERS".

If I you feel I have taken these bible scriptures out of context, Please show me where the (kjv) scriptures contradict my understanding.

There's a reason the flesh of Jesus died in this world but Christians can't understand it. Most of them are actually waiting for his flesh to appear in the clouds someday.
Angry_Bird
Posts: 64
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3/12/2015 10:48:46 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 3/12/2015 9:39:05 AM, MadCornishBiker wrote:
At 3/12/2015 5:19:47 AM, Angry_Bird wrote:
Romans 5:19(KJV)
19)
For as by one man's disobedience many were made sinners, so by the obedience of one shall many be made righteous.

"One man" and "One".. Adam and Jesus?, One man and One what?, God ?

Acts 13:25(KJV)
25)
And as John (the Baptizer) fulfilled his course, he said, Whom think ye that I am? I am not he. But, behold, there cometh "ONE" after me, whose shoes of his feet I am not worthy to loose.

1John 5:7(KJV)
7)
For there are three that bear record in Heaven: the Father, the Word, and the Holy Ghost; and these three are "ONE".

Could Jesus have been three in "One", the Fullness of the Godhead ?, Jesus being the "word". that dwelt among us.

Colossians 2:9
9)
For in him dwelleth all the fulness of the Godhead bodily.

(THE NAME ELOHIM (GOD) IN THE TANAKH IS IN HEBREW PLURAL, IT IS PLURAL FOR EL, OR POSSIBLY ELOAH, PLURAL IN HEBREW MEANS AT LEAST THREE OR MORE)

On the strength of these verses which I believe to have taken in the correct context, I conclude that in biblical terms , Jesus is the "One God" who has made (and may continue to make) "Many righteous"

"One" had to firstly live and die "sin free". fulfill the law, thus fulfill all righteousness,

How could "One" manage to do this when everybody beforehand had failed to do so in this fallen world?
Romans 3:23(KJV)
23)
For all have sinned, and come short of the glory of God;

Please note, Romans 5:19 provides no reference to Eve (Woman) playing a part in making anyone a "sinner" through her actions.

The Woman eve was beguiled, but Adam the Man on the other hand was not, he freely and openly sinned through choice, disobeying his God by opting to partake of the forbidden fruit, presented by the spiritually dead Woman.

So by Adam's disobedience, Men pass on the sin nature to their offspring.

The Father of Jesus was God the Father, who had no sin nature to pass, and Mary being a Woman, as written in scripture, was unable to pass on her inherited sin nature to Jesus, "BY ONE MAN'S (Adam's) DISOBEDIENCE MANY WERE MADE SINNERS".

If I you feel I have taken these bible scriptures out of context, Please show me where the (kjv) scriptures contradict my understanding.

I'm not sure you haven't slightly mistaken what scripture says about these things.

It is true Christ was born sinless, because he was especially created in Mary's womb.
However it is not sure whether or not Mary could have passed sin on. The male of the species hold the responsibility for it because of the headship principle, started off by Eve being given to Adam and Adam being given the responsibility to teach Eve, something which has never changed.

Whilst it is very true that Christ did not sin, it is not true to say he could not. Only his loyalty to, and obedience to his loving father and creator prevented him from doing so.

If that were not the case where does obedience some into it?

We know he was tempted to, on a number of occasions, and scripture confirms that, not only by his temptation in the wilderness when he was at his weakest, a typically cowardly Satanic method, but also by his frequent, fervent prayer to his father for help and support, even at one point asking if he could be allowed to escape what was coming, but acquiescing to his father's will.

The real reason his obedience was such a test for God's son is that, in his pre-human existence , when he dealt with humans on his father's behalf, it was relatively easy for him to be obedient, but as a relatively weak, albeit Adam-like in his perfection, he was tested to the limit, and unlike Adam, did not give in.

The false idea of God's son being other than what he was, literally the son of his father, and the confusion that calls, reduces the glory that Christ deserves for his faithfulness, as much as it takes away glory from his father for his provision of his beloved son to come to the earth and become the Christ as the sacrificial lamb.

Always remember that the Apostles repeatedly gave praise and glory to the father (Jehovah) for the provision of salvation through his son. They gave the son relative honour, but never to the same level as the father (Jehovah).

That is why Jesus made it a matter of eternal life or eternal death that we get to know both his father and himself well. (John 17:3), with no mention, you notice, of holy spirit.

You choose not to provide scripture to "show me" Where I was in error.
thanks for your reply.

Even the Jews said by Jesus claiming he was the "Son of God", he was claiming he was "equal with God" , Peter said he was the "Son of the living God" again the Jewish belief he was no less than God.
John 17:3 speaks of God, which I showed you scripture of God being "One", Father son HOLY GHOST. (1John 5:7)

Remember Jesus was baptized into identification with the will of the Father, before starting out on his ministry at the age of 30, as all OT priesthood holders were baptized at that age before starting out. Where did Jesus get his priesthood from ?. Why was Jesus able to save ? "God our saviour" (1Tim 1:1).
Angry_Bird
Posts: 64
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3/12/2015 12:14:45 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 3/12/2015 9:49:35 AM, bornofgod wrote:
At 3/12/2015 5:19:47 AM, Angry_Bird wrote:
Romans 5:19(KJV)
19)
For as by one man's disobedience many were made sinners, so by the obedience of one shall many be made righteous.

"One man" and "One".. Adam and Jesus?, One man and One what?, God ?

Acts 13:25(KJV)
25)
And as John (the Baptizer) fulfilled his course, he said, Whom think ye that I am? I am not he. But, behold, there cometh "ONE" after me, whose shoes of his feet I am not worthy to loose.

1John 5:7(KJV)
7)
For there are three that bear record in Heaven: the Father, the Word, and the Holy Ghost; and these three are "ONE".

Could Jesus have been three in "One", the Fullness of the Godhead ?, Jesus being the "word". that dwelt among us.

Colossians 2:9
9)
For in him dwelleth all the fulness of the Godhead bodily.

(THE NAME ELOHIM (GOD) IN THE TANAKH IS IN HEBREW PLURAL, IT IS PLURAL FOR EL, OR POSSIBLY ELOAH, PLURAL IN HEBREW MEANS AT LEAST THREE OR MORE)

On the strength of these verses which I believe to have taken in the correct context, I conclude that in biblical terms , Jesus is the "One God" who has made (and may continue to make) "Many righteous"

"One" had to firstly live and die "sin free". fulfill the law, thus fulfill all righteousness,

How could "One" manage to do this when everybody beforehand had failed to do so in this fallen world?
Romans 3:23(KJV)
23)
For all have sinned, and come short of the glory of God;

Please note, Romans 5:19 provides no reference to Eve (Woman) playing a part in making anyone a "sinner" through her actions.

The Woman eve was beguiled, but Adam the Man on the other hand was not, he freely and openly sinned through choice, disobeying his God by opting to partake of the forbidden fruit, presented by the spiritually dead Woman.

So by Adam's disobedience, Men pass on the sin nature to their offspring.

The Father of Jesus was God the Father, who had no sin nature to pass, and Mary being a Woman, as written in scripture, was unable to pass on her inherited sin nature to Jesus, "BY ONE MAN'S (Adam's) DISOBEDIENCE MANY WERE MADE SINNERS".

If I you feel I have taken these bible scriptures out of context, Please show me where the (kjv) scriptures contradict my understanding.

There's a reason the flesh of Jesus died in this world but Christians can't understand it. Most of them are actually waiting for his flesh to appear in the clouds someday.

Well if Jesus does appear in the clouds one day, you will be the first to see him, because that is where your head is.
bornofgod
Posts: 11,322
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3/12/2015 12:18:12 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 3/12/2015 12:14:45 PM, Angry_Bird wrote:
At 3/12/2015 9:49:35 AM, bornofgod wrote:
At 3/12/2015 5:19:47 AM, Angry_Bird wrote:
Romans 5:19(KJV)
19)
For as by one man's disobedience many were made sinners, so by the obedience of one shall many be made righteous.

"One man" and "One".. Adam and Jesus?, One man and One what?, God ?

Acts 13:25(KJV)
25)
And as John (the Baptizer) fulfilled his course, he said, Whom think ye that I am? I am not he. But, behold, there cometh "ONE" after me, whose shoes of his feet I am not worthy to loose.

1John 5:7(KJV)
7)
For there are three that bear record in Heaven: the Father, the Word, and the Holy Ghost; and these three are "ONE".

Could Jesus have been three in "One", the Fullness of the Godhead ?, Jesus being the "word". that dwelt among us.

Colossians 2:9
9)
For in him dwelleth all the fulness of the Godhead bodily.

(THE NAME ELOHIM (GOD) IN THE TANAKH IS IN HEBREW PLURAL, IT IS PLURAL FOR EL, OR POSSIBLY ELOAH, PLURAL IN HEBREW MEANS AT LEAST THREE OR MORE)

On the strength of these verses which I believe to have taken in the correct context, I conclude that in biblical terms , Jesus is the "One God" who has made (and may continue to make) "Many righteous"

"One" had to firstly live and die "sin free". fulfill the law, thus fulfill all righteousness,

How could "One" manage to do this when everybody beforehand had failed to do so in this fallen world?
Romans 3:23(KJV)
23)
For all have sinned, and come short of the glory of God;

Please note, Romans 5:19 provides no reference to Eve (Woman) playing a part in making anyone a "sinner" through her actions.

The Woman eve was beguiled, but Adam the Man on the other hand was not, he freely and openly sinned through choice, disobeying his God by opting to partake of the forbidden fruit, presented by the spiritually dead Woman.

So by Adam's disobedience, Men pass on the sin nature to their offspring.

The Father of Jesus was God the Father, who had no sin nature to pass, and Mary being a Woman, as written in scripture, was unable to pass on her inherited sin nature to Jesus, "BY ONE MAN'S (Adam's) DISOBEDIENCE MANY WERE MADE SINNERS".

If I you feel I have taken these bible scriptures out of context, Please show me where the (kjv) scriptures contradict my understanding.

There's a reason the flesh of Jesus died in this world but Christians can't understand it. Most of them are actually waiting for his flesh to appear in the clouds someday.

Well if Jesus does appear in the clouds one day, you will be the first to see him, because that is where your head is.

You won't know who I AM until your body dies in this world. Then you still won't see ME but you will get to know ME, very well.
MadCornishBiker
Posts: 23,302
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3/12/2015 12:29:12 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 3/12/2015 10:48:46 AM, Angry_Bird wrote:
At 3/12/2015 9:39:05 AM, MadCornishBiker wrote:


Actually I did give you at least the one, but there are many more.


Even the Jews said by Jesus claiming he was the "Son of God", he was claiming he was "equal with God" , Peter said he was the "Son of the living God" again the Jewish belief he was no less than God.

The Jews accused Christ of claiming not only equality with God, but of claiming to be God. They falsely accused him of many things, including the charge of sedition they made to Pilate.

Nowhere in scripture is God's son, before during or after his earthly sojourn as being anything other than a true son of God, completely separate and submissive.

John 17:3 speaks of God, which I showed you scripture of God being "One", Father son HOLY GHOST. (1John 5:7)

No, John 17:3 speaks of father and son separately, as the rest of scripture does, with no mention of holy spirit.

I take it that you are using the KJV then, because it is the only translation I know which include the spurious verse at 1 John 5:7.

Other translations are more honest than the KJV which refuses even to include God's name in the many places it should.

1 John 5:6-8
KJV(i) 6 This is he that came by water and blood, even Jesus Christ; not by water only, but by water and blood. And it is the Spirit that beareth witness, because the Spirit is truth. 7 For there are three that bear record in heaven, the Father, the Word, and the Holy Ghost: and these three are one. 8 And there are three that bear witness in earth, the Spirit, and the water, and the blood: and these three agree in one.

OK, that's the KJV, no compare with these and spot the error deliberately introduced into the KJV by liars and frauds.

1 John 5:6-8
ALT(i) 6 This is the One having come through water and blood" Jesus Christ; not by the water only, but by the water and the blood. And the Spirit is the One testifying, because the Spirit is the truth. 7 Because three are the Ones testifying: 8 the Spirit and the water and the blood, and the three are into the one [fig., agree as one].

1 John 5:6-8
ASV(i) 6 This is he that came by water and blood, even Jesus Christ; not with the water only, but with the water and with the blood. 7 And it is the Spirit that beareth witness, because the Spirit is the truth. 8 For there are three who bear witness, the Spirit, and the water, and the blood: and the three agree in one.

1 John 5:6-8
Rotherham(i) 6 This, is he that came through means of water and blood, Jesus Christ: not, by the water, only, but, by the water and by the blood,"and, the Spirit, it is, that is bearing witness, because, the Spirit, is the truth. 7 Because, three, are they who are bearing witness" 8 The Spirit, and the Water, and the Blood; and, the three, are, [witnesses], unto one thing.

1 John 5:6-8
Rotherham(i) 6 This, is he that came through means of water and blood, Jesus Christ: not, by the water, only, but, by the water and by the blood,"and, the Spirit, it is, that is bearing witness, because, the Spirit, is the truth. 7 Because, three, are they who are bearing witness" 8 The Spirit, and the Water, and the Blood; and, the three, are, [witnesses], unto one thing.

1 John 5:6-8
WEB(i) 6 This is he who came by water and blood, Jesus Christ; not with the water only, but with the water and the blood. It is the Spirit who testifies, because the Spirit is the truth. 7 For there are three who testify[1]: 8 the Spirit, the water, and the blood; and the three agree as one.

No mention of father and son being one there, however blood and water as as personified as holy spirit.

True scripture speaks of God and Christ being one, but one in what sense?

In the sense you choose to mean?

Or the sense Jesus meant when he prayed that the disciples be one with him and his father?

John 17:20-21
ASV(i) 20 Neither for these only do I pray, but for them also that believe on me through their word; 21 that they may all be one; even as thou, Father, art in me, and I in thee, that they also may be in us: that the world may believe that thou didst send me.

No, Jesus and his father are one in the same sense, as he says, that those who follow him must be, one of purpose, one of religious teaching, one in tier knowledge of God and of Christ, as well as of understanding of scrpture.


Remember Jesus was baptized into identification with the will of the Father, before starting out on his ministry at the age of 30, as all OT priesthood holders were baptized at that age before starting out. Where did Jesus get his priesthood from ?. Why was Jesus able to save ? "God our saviour" (1Tim 1:1).

To deal with 1 Timothy 1:1 first, stop cherry picking to boost what you want to see and read the whole thing.

1 Timothy 1:1
ASV(i) 1 Paul, an apostle of Christ Jesus according to the commandment of God our Saviour, and Christ Jesus our hope;

Noticve.

According to "the commandment of God our Saviour"

God? or Christ? or are the same same?

Hardly because the verse goes on " and Christ Jesus our hope"

So it is God who is our saviour, and Christ our hope, not our saviour.

1 Peter 1:3-4
ASV(i) 3 Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who according to his great mercy begat us again unto a living hope by the resurrection of Jesus Christ from the dead, 4 unto an inheritance incorruptible, and undefiled, and that fadeth not away, reserved in heaven for you,

Notice Peter praises the God and Father. Christ's father was also his God, even then after his resurrection

Also he says that this God, Jehovah in fact, brought us this hope by means of Jesus Christ.

And who was this Jesus that he thanks God for?

John 1:14 ASV(i) 14 And the Word became flesh, and dwelt among us (and we beheld his glory, glory as of the only begotten from the Father), full of grace and truth.

As John points out Jesus Christ was the Word become flesh, God's only begotten son made incarnate.

Not God, but his only begotten son, something which can only apply to his son being the first of his creations and the only one he created alone, and who worked alongside him in creation from then one. (Revelation 3:14, Colossians 1:15,17; Colossians 1:16)

If you want more proof, feel free to ask because the Christian Greek Scriptures are full of it.
Angry_Bird
Posts: 64
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3/12/2015 3:09:31 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
If you want more proof, feel free to ask because the Christian Greek Scriptures are full of it.
First person = The eternal Father, the planner, sustainer, and provider.--- Second person = The Son, the eternal revealed or manifest person. The visible image of the invisible and infinite God.---Third Person = The Holy Spirit, our teacher, the infinite, eternal power of God, God in action.Only the manifest, or Second Person of the Trinity can be seen:--- 2 Cor. 4:4 "Christ is the image of God".--- Col. 1:13-17 Jesus is "the image of the invisible God".--- Col. 2:9 In Jesus "dwelleth all the fullness of the Godhead bodily" (in bodily form).--- Heb. 1:3 Jesus is the "brightness of his (God's) glory and the express image of his person".Any time the Old Testament Scriptures state that someone saw God, they saw the preincarnate Christ, Jesus himself, before he was born and lived as a human being through the virgin birth. John 1:18 states that "no man hath seen God (the Trinity) at any time; the only begotten Son, which is in the bosom of the Father, he hath declared (revealed) him". Appearances of Jesus in the Old Testament are theologically called "Christophanies".Jesus walked in the garden of Eden with Adam and Eve. The word "God" in the book of Genesis speaks of "Elohim" or the Trinity, but "the LORD", and "LORD God", who spoke personally to Adam and Eve, Moses, Abraham, and many of the Old Testament prophets, is the personal and visible manifestation of God, which is Jesus.The personal name of God in the Old Testament is "Yahweh", translated "LORD" (all capitol letters) in the KJV. 1 Cor. 15:47 states that Jesus is "THE Lord" from heaven, (Note: The title "LORD" in this verse has the Greek article "the") Meaning that "The LORD", Hebrew "Yahweh" in the Old Testament, is Jesus, before He left His home in heaven and entered the stream of humanity through the virgin birth. Jesus Christ, of the New Testament, and "Yahweh" of the Old Testament are"one and the same!Jesus appeared personally, face to face with Moses and the Old Testament prophets of God. Check outExodus 33:11, where "the Lord spake unto Moses face to face, as a man speaketh unto his friend", andExodus 24:9-11"where Moses and seventy elders of Israel "saw the God of Israel". Jesus is the visible manifestation of "The God of Israel".God, in the person of Jesus, and two angels walked up to Abraham's tent and had dinner with him before they destroyed Sodom and Gomorrah, Genesis chapter 18.Jesus is the "Ancient of Days", in"Daniel 7:9-14."(Notice the description is basically the same as the glorified Christ in"Rev 1:12-18.Jesus was in the cloud that followed the children of Israel through the Red Sea."1 Cor. 10:4, and Exodus 14:14, 19 & 25.""The "angel of God" literally means "the appearance of God". (Notice Jesus looked out of the cloud, and shot the wheels off of Pharaoh's chariots while they were in the dry bottom of the Red Sea!)Jesus Created the Earth and universes.Jesus, the eternal Second Person of the Trinity created the earth and universes, and is now holding all things together:--- Heb. 1:1-3 God hath spoken to us in these last days and appointed Jesus heir of all things, "by whom he made the worlds".--- Eph. 3:9 God "created all things by (by means of) Jesus Christ".--- John 1:1-3 and 14 Speaking of the eternal Second Person of the Trinity, Jesus, the "Word of God" in verse 14, "All things were made by him; and without him was not any thing made that was made".--- Col. 1:13-17 and 19 Speaking of Jesus, "For by him were all things created, that are in heaven, and that are in earth, visible and invisible, whether they be thrones, or dominions, or principalities, or powers: all things were created by him, and for him".Jesus is "God the Son" (Eternal 2nd person of the triune God) as well as "the Son of God" (The Second Person of the Trinity, who left His place in heaven and entered the stream of humanity through the virgin birth, died on the cross for us and ascended back to heaven in his resurrected glorified human body.--- John 10:30 Jesus said "I and my Father are one".--- John 12:45, Jesus said "he that seeth me seeth him that sent me".--- John 14:9 Jesus told "doubting Thomas" If you have seen me, you have seen the Father.--- Isa. 9:6 In the next age, the Millennial reign of Christ, and then forever, Jesus will be called "the Father".Jesus will be the Judge who sits on the Great White Throne:In Rev. 20:11-15, God sits on the judgement throne. In John 5:22, Jesus states that "The Father judgeth no man, but hath committed all judgement unto the Son".After living as a human being, dying on the Cross for us, having our sins poured out on Him in three hours of darkness on the Cross, being judged in our place, who else deserves to sit on that judgement throne, but Jesus?Rev. 5:12 States "Worthy is the Lamb that was slain to receive power, and riches, and wisdom, and strength, and honor, and glory, and blessing."The word "believe" in the New Testament means "to trust in and rely on". The more you know about Jesus, the more you can trust in and rely on Jesus. The Church is called the "bride" of Christ, and doesn't a "bride" want to know all about her future husband?If this study leaves you with a question of how we should address our prayers:""" a. We are told to address all prayer to God the Father. Matt. 6:9, 1 Pet. 1:17, Eph. 3:14.""" b. We can only approach the Father in the name of Jesus, the Son, John 14:13 & 14.""" c. All prayer, and Christian activity must be empowered by the Holy Spirit to be valid, Eph. 6:18.I certainly hope these Scriptures bless you as they have blessed me! The primary issue in Christianity is "What think ye of Christ", John 22:42. There is salvation and eternal blessing in trusting the Eternal Son of God, Jesus Christ as he is revealed in the Bible.
MadCornishBiker
Posts: 23,302
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3/12/2015 3:46:57 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 3/12/2015 3:09:31 PM, Angry_Bird wrote:
If you want more proof, feel free to ask because the Christian Greek Scriptures are full of it.
First person = The eternal Father, the planner, sustainer, and provider.--- Second person = The Son, the eternal revealed or manifest person. The visible image of the invisible and infinite God.---Third Person = The Holy Spirit, our teacher, the infinite, eternal power of God, God in action.Only the manifest, or Second Person of the Trinity can be seen:--- 2 Cor. 4:4 "Christ is the image of God".--- Col. 1:13-17 Jesus is "the image of the invisible God".--- Col. 2:9 In Jesus "dwelleth all the fullness of the Godhead bodily" (in bodily form).--- Heb. 1:3 Jesus is the "brightness of his (God's) glory and the express image of his person".Any time the Old Testament Scriptures state that someone saw God, they saw the preincarnate Christ, Jesus himself, before he was born and lived as a human being through the virgin birth. John 1:18 states that "no man hath seen God (the Trinity) at any time; the only begotten Son, which is in the bosom of the Father, he hath declared (revealed) him". Appearances of Jesus in the Old Testament are theologically called "Christophanies".Jesus walked in the garden of Eden with Adam and Eve. The word "God" in the book of Genesis speaks of "Elohim" or the Trinity, but "the LORD", and "LORD God", who spoke personally to Adam and Eve, Moses, Abraham, and many of the Old Testament prophets, is the personal and visible manifestation of God, which is Jesus.The personal name of God in the Old Testament is "Yahweh", translated "LORD" (all capitol letters) in the KJV. 1 Cor. 15:47 states that Jesus is "THE Lord" from heaven, (Note: The title "LORD" in this verse has the Greek article "the") Meaning that "The LORD", Hebrew "Yahweh" in the Old Testament, is Jesus, before He left His home in heaven and entered the stream of humanity through the virgin birth. Jesus Christ, of the New Testament, and "Yahweh" of the Old Testament are"one and the same!Jesus appeared personally, face to face with Moses and the Old Testament prophets of God. Check outExodus 33:11, where "the Lord spake unto Moses face to face, as a man speaketh unto his friend", andExodus 24:9-11"where Moses and seventy elders of Israel "saw the God of Israel". Jesus is the visible manifestation of "The God of Israel".God, in the person of Jesus, and two angels walked up to Abraham's tent and had dinner with him before they destroyed Sodom and Gomorrah, Genesis chapter 18.Jesus is the "Ancient of Days", in"Daniel 7:9-14."(Notice the description is basically the same as the glorified Christ in"Rev 1:12-18.Jesus was in the cloud that followed the children of Israel through the Red Sea."1 Cor. 10:4, and Exodus 14:14, 19 & 25.""The "angel of God" literally means "the appearance of God". (Notice Jesus looked out of the cloud, and shot the wheels off of Pharaoh's chariots while they were in the dry bottom of the Red Sea!)Jesus Created the Earth and universes.Jesus, the eternal Second Person of the Trinity created the earth and universes, and is now holding all things together:--- Heb. 1:1-3 God hath spoken to us in these last days and appointed Jesus heir of all things, "by whom he made the worlds".--- Eph. 3:9 God "created all things by (by means of) Jesus Christ".--- John 1:1-3 and 14 Speaking of the eternal Second Person of the Trinity, Jesus, the "Word of God" in verse 14, "All things were made by him; and without him was not any thing made that was made".--- Col. 1:13-17 and 19 Speaking of Jesus, "For by him were all things created, that are in heaven, and that are in earth, visible and invisible, whether they be thrones, or dominions, or principalities, or powers: all things were created by him, and for him".Jesus is "God the Son" (Eternal 2nd person of the triune God) as well as "the Son of God" (The Second Person of the Trinity, who left His place in heaven and entered the stream of humanity through the virgin birth, died on the cross for us and ascended back to heaven in his resurrected glorified human body.--- John 10:30 Jesus said "I and my Father are one".--- John 12:45, Jesus said "he that seeth me seeth him that sent me".--- John 14:9 Jesus told "doubting Thomas" If you have seen me, you have seen the Father.--- Isa. 9:6 In the next age, the Millennial reign of Christ, and then forever, Jesus will be called "the Father".Jesus will be the Judge who sits on the Great White Throne:In Rev. 20:11-15, God sits on the judgement throne. In John 5:22, Jesus states that "The Father judgeth no man, but hath committed all judgement unto the Son".After living as a human being, dying on the Cross for us, having our sins poured out on Him in three hours of darkness on the Cross, being judged in our place, who else deserves to sit on that judgement throne, but Jesus?Rev. 5:12 States "Worthy is the Lamb that was slain to receive power, and riches, and wisdom, and strength, and honor, and glory, and blessing."The word "believe" in the New Testament means "to trust in and rely on". The more you know about Jesus, the more you can trust in and rely on Jesus. The Church is called the "bride" of Christ, and doesn't a "bride" want to know all about her future husband?If this study leaves you with a question of how we should address our prayers:""" a. We are told to address all prayer to God the Father. Matt. 6:9, 1 Pet. 1:17, Eph. 3:14.""" b. We can only approach the Father in the name of Jesus, the Son, John 14:13 & 14.""" c. All prayer, and Christian activity must be empowered by the Holy Spirit to be valid, Eph. 6:18.I certainly hope these Scriptures bless you as they have blessed me! The primary issue in Christianity is "What think ye of Christ", John 22:42. There is salvation and eternal blessing in trusting the Eternal Son of God, Jesus Christ as he is revealed in the Bible.

Well, if you want to believe that load of Apostate tosh who am I to argue with you.

Scripture clearly denotes that God's son was literally the created son of God, and that is the only way he could have ever been God's only begotten son, since God had many more sons before Jesus including Adam the original human son of God.

You can quote the words of men at me all day, but I will still never move away from the word of God.
12_13
Posts: 1,361
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3/12/2015 4:08:38 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 3/12/2015 5:19:47 AM, Angry_Bird wrote:
If I you feel I have taken these bible scriptures out of context, Please show me where the (kjv) scriptures contradict my understanding.

I think you have misunderstood something, if you are claiming that Jesus is the one true God, because it is said:

This is eternal life, that they should know you, the only true God, and him whom you sent, Jesus Christ.
John 17:3

You heard how I told you, 'I go away, and I come to you.' If you loved me, you would have rejoiced, because I said 'I am going to my Father;' for the Father is greater than I.

John 14:28

Jesus therefore answered them, "My teaching is not mine, but his who sent me. If anyone desires to do his will, he will know about the teaching, whether it is from God, or if I am speaking from myself.
John 7:16-17

Therefore concerning the eating of things sacrificed to idols, we know that no idol is anything in the world, and that there is no other God but one. For though there are things that are called "gods," whether in the heavens or on earth; as there are many "gods" and many "lords;" yet to us there is one God, the Father, of whom are all things, and we for him; and one Lord, Jesus Christ, through whom are all things, and we live through him.
1 Corinthians 8:4

For there is one God, and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus,
1 Timothy 2:5

If we say that Elohim means many persons, it can mean all those who were called son"s of God:

Jesus answered them, "Isn't it written in your law, 'I said, you are gods?' If he called them gods, to whom the word of God came (and the Scripture can't be broken), Do you say of him whom the Father sanctified and sent into the world, 'You blaspheme,' because I said, 'I am the Son of God?' If I don't do the works of my Father, don't believe me. But if I do them, though you don't believe me, believe the works; that you may know and believe that the Father is in me, and I in the Father."
John 10:34-38

God presides in the great assembly. He judges among the gods.
Psalms 82:1

I said, "You are gods, All of you are sons of the Most High. Nevertheless you shall die like men, And fall like one of the rulers."

Psalms 82:6-7

Now it happened on the day when the sons of God came to present themselves before Yahweh, that Satan also came among them.
Job 1:6

It happened, when men began to multiply on the surface of the ground, and daughters were born to them, that God's sons saw that men's daughters were beautiful, and they took for themselves wives of all that they chose.
Genesis 6:1-2

Jesus is one with God, same way as disciples of Jesus are one with God. It doesn"t mean that we all are God"s.

I am no more in the world, but these are in the world, and I am coming to you. Holy Father, keep them through your name which you have given me, that they may be one, even as we are.
John 17:11

that they may all be one; even as you, Father, are in me, and I in you, that they also may be one in us; that the world may believe that you sent me.
John 17:21

According to the Bible, Jesus is the temple of God, God dwells in Jesus.

Don't you believe that I am in the Father, and the Father in me? The words that I tell you, I speak not from myself; but the Father who lives in me does his works.
John 14:10-14

For in him all the fullness of the Godhead dwells bodily,
Colossians 2:9

Jesus answered them, "Destroy this temple, and in three days I will raise it up." The Jews therefore said, "Forty-six years was this temple in building, and will you raise it up in three days?" But he spoke of the temple of his body.
John 2:19-21

That is why Jesus could say when he was dying:

About the ninth hour Jesus cried with a loud voice, saying, "Eli, Eli, lima sabachthani?" That is, "My God, my God, why have you forsaken me?"
Mat. 27:46
MadCornishBiker
Posts: 23,302
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3/12/2015 4:23:03 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 3/12/2015 4:08:38 PM, 12_13 wrote:
At 3/12/2015 5:19:47 AM, Angry_Bird wrote:
If I you feel I have taken these bible scriptures out of context, Please show me where the (kjv) scriptures contradict my understanding.

I think you have misunderstood something, if you are claiming that Jesus is the one true God, because it is said:

Yes, and the connective word "and" is there for good reason.


This is eternal life, that they should know you, the only true God, and him whom you sent, Jesus Christ.
John 17:3

You heard how I told you, 'I go away, and I come to you.' If you loved me, you would have rejoiced, because I said 'I am going to my Father;' for the Father is greater than I.

John 14:28

Jesus therefore answered them, "My teaching is not mine, but his who sent me. If anyone desires to do his will, he will know about the teaching, whether it is from God, or if I am speaking from myself.
John 7:16-17

Therefore concerning the eating of things sacrificed to idols, we know that no idol is anything in the world, and that there is no other God but one. For though there are things that are called "gods," whether in the heavens or on earth; as there are many "gods" and many "lords;" yet to us there is one God, the Father, of whom are all things, and we for him; and one Lord, Jesus Christ, through whom are all things, and we live through him.
1 Corinthians 8:4

For there is one God, and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus,
1 Timothy 2:5

If we say that Elohim means many persons, it can mean all those who were called son"s of God:

Jesus answered them, "Isn't it written in your law, 'I said, you are gods?' If he called them gods, to whom the word of God came (and the Scripture can't be broken), Do you say of him whom the Father sanctified and sent into the world, 'You blaspheme,' because I said, 'I am the Son of God?' If I don't do the works of my Father, don't believe me. But if I do them, though you don't believe me, believe the works; that you may know and believe that the Father is in me, and I in the Father."
John 10:34-38

God presides in the great assembly. He judges among the gods.
Psalms 82:1

I said, "You are gods, All of you are sons of the Most High. Nevertheless you shall die like men, And fall like one of the rulers."

Psalms 82:6-7

Now it happened on the day when the sons of God came to present themselves before Yahweh, that Satan also came among them.
Job 1:6

It happened, when men began to multiply on the surface of the ground, and daughters were born to them, that God's sons saw that men's daughters were beautiful, and they took for themselves wives of all that they chose.
Genesis 6:1-2

Jesus is one with God, same way as disciples of Jesus are one with God. It doesn"t mean that we all are God"s.

I am no more in the world, but these are in the world, and I am coming to you. Holy Father, keep them through your name which you have given me, that they may be one, even as we are.
John 17:11

that they may all be one; even as you, Father, are in me, and I in you, that they also may be one in us; that the world may believe that you sent me.
John 17:21

According to the Bible, Jesus is the temple of God, God dwells in Jesus.

Don't you believe that I am in the Father, and the Father in me? The words that I tell you, I speak not from myself; but the Father who lives in me does his works.
John 14:10-14

For in him all the fullness of the Godhead dwells bodily,
Colossians 2:9

Jesus answered them, "Destroy this temple, and in three days I will raise it up." The Jews therefore said, "Forty-six years was this temple in building, and will you raise it up in three days?" But he spoke of the temple of his body.
John 2:19-21

That is why Jesus could say when he was dying:

About the ninth hour Jesus cried with a loud voice, saying, "Eli, Eli, lima sabachthani?" That is, "My God, my God, why have you forsaken me?"
Mat. 27:46

He also told Mary, after his resurrection as a spirit:

John 20:17
ASV(i) 17 Jesus saith to her, Touch me not; for I am not yet ascended unto the Father: but go unto my brethren, and say to them, I ascend unto my Father and your Father, and my God and your God.

Resurrectd as a spirit?

Yes.

1 Peter 3:18-19
ASV(i) 18 Because Christ also suffered for sins once, the righteous for the unrighteous, that he might bring us to God; being put to death in the flesh, but made alive in the spirit; 19 in which also he went and preached unto the spirits in prison,

Scripture makes it very clear that his resurrection was not a bodily one, despite what many wish to believe.

But that's another story, and a long one, which John 21 & 22, and Luke 24 explain carefully.