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God is a sick SOB, apparently

Yvette
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7/17/2010 11:10:47 AM
Posted: 6 years ago
This passage of the Bible has always bothered me:

1 Then the LORD said to Moses, "Go to Pharaoh, for I have hardened his heart and the hearts of his officials so that I may perform these miraculous signs of mine among them 2 that you may tell your children and grandchildren how I dealt harshly with the Egyptians and how I performed my signs among them, and that you may know that I am the LORD."

25 But Moses said, "You must allow us to have sacrifices and burnt offerings to present to the LORD our God. 26 Our livestock too must go with us; not a hoof is to be left behind. We have to use some of them in worshiping the LORD our God, and until we get there we will not know what we are to use to worship the LORD."

27 But the LORD hardened Pharaoh's heart, and he was not willing to let them go. 28 Pharaoh said to Moses, "Get out of my sight! Make sure you do not appear before me again! The day you see my face you will die."

4 So Moses said, "This is what the LORD says: ‘About midnight I will go throughout Egypt. 5 Every firstborn son in Egypt will die, from the firstborn son of Pharaoh, who sits on the throne, to the firstborn son of the slave girl, who is at her hand mill, and all the firstborn of the cattle as well. 6 There will be loud wailing throughout Egypt—worse than there has ever been or ever will be again. 7 But among the Israelites not a dog will bark at any man or animal.' Then you will know that the LORD makes a distinction between Egypt and Israel. 8 All these officials of yours will come to me, bowing down before me and saying, ‘Go, you and all the people who follow you!' After that I will leave." Then Moses, hot with anger, left Pharaoh.

9 The LORD had said to Moses, "Pharaoh will refuse to listen to you—so that my wonders may be multiplied in Egypt." 10 Moses and Aaron performed all these wonders before Pharaoh, but the LORD hardened Pharaoh's heart, and he would not let the Israelites go out of his country.

1 The LORD said to Moses and Aaron in Egypt, 2 "This month is to be for you the first month, the first month of your year. 3 Tell the whole community of Israel that on the tenth day of this month each man is to take a lamb [a] for his family, one for each household. 4 If any household is too small for a whole lamb, they must share one with their nearest neighbor, having taken into account the number of people there are. You are to determine the amount of lamb needed in accordance with what each person will eat. 5 The animals you choose must be year-old males without defect, and you may take them from the sheep or the goats. 6 Take care of them until the fourteenth day of the month, when all the people of the community of Israel must slaughter them at twilight. 7 Then they are to take some of the blood and put it on the sides and tops of the doorframes of the houses where they eat the lambs. 8 That same night they are to eat the meat roasted over the fire, along with bitter herbs, and bread made without yeast. 9 Do not eat the meat raw or cooked in water, but roast it over the fire—head, legs and inner parts. 10 Do not leave any of it till morning; if some is left till morning, you must burn it. 11 This is how you are to eat it: with your cloak tucked into your belt, your sandals on your feet and your staff in your hand. Eat it in haste; it is the LORD's Passover.

12 "On that same night I will pass through Egypt and strike down every firstborn—both men and animals—and I will bring judgment on all the gods of Egypt. I am the LORD. 13 The blood will be a sign for you on the houses where you are; and when I see the blood, I will pass over you. No destructive plague will touch you when I strike Egypt.


Wow, right?

What we have here is God forcing someone's mind--meaning, the Pharaoh would have acted differently had God not forced his mind--so that God could commit genocide against children in order to show how "glorious" he really is.

So, Bible literalists. A few questions:

1. Are you sick or what?

2. Obviously, God doesn't care about free will when it comes to getting people to believe in and worship him. So with that in mind why doesn't God still do this? Why hasn't he killed all the firstborns of Iran so the world believes in him and worships him? He's done it once already.

3. Was it morally acceptable, to you, to not only kill innocents (did they go to Heaven or hell? They were heathens after all) but enjoy the suffering it caused their parents?
In the middle of moving to Washington. 8D

"If God does not exist, then chocolate causing cancer is only true for the society that has evidence for that." --GodSands
Yvette
Posts: 859
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7/17/2010 11:30:11 AM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 7/17/2010 11:23:50 AM, JustCallMeTarzan wrote:
Agreed.

And, http://www.debate.org...

LOL!

I love the title.

/reads
In the middle of moving to Washington. 8D

"If God does not exist, then chocolate causing cancer is only true for the society that has evidence for that." --GodSands
lovelife
Posts: 14,629
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7/17/2010 11:44:30 AM
Posted: 6 years ago
Yeah. I bet it gets "justified" though. They made a movie on it, but made God look like a good guy.
Without Royal there is a hole inside of me, I have no choice but to leave
Cerebral_Narcissist
Posts: 10,806
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7/17/2010 11:48:01 AM
Posted: 6 years ago
So if the judaeo-Christian God was shown to be in some capacity true how would you react? Just accept that reality sucks and get down on your knees? Become a true satanist and hope that the devil is actually the good guy and that he may somehow win? What would be your reaction? Just throwing it out there for a laugh.
I am voting for Innomen because of his intelligence, common sense, humility and the fact that Juggle appears to listen to him. Any other Presidential style would have a large sub-section of the site up in arms. If I was President I would destroy the site though elitism, others would let it run riot. Innomen represents a middle way that works, neither draconian nor anarchic and that is the only way things can work. Plus he does it all without ego trips.
lovelife
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7/17/2010 11:53:35 AM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 7/17/2010 11:48:01 AM, Cerebral_Narcissist wrote:
So if the judaeo-Christian God was shown to be in some capacity true how would you react? Just accept that reality sucks and get down on your knees? Become a true satanist and hope that the devil is actually the good guy and that he may somehow win? What would be your reaction? Just throwing it out there for a laugh.

Oms you know all about my story.

If it was true, I would have, much like Marla (my normal personality and the human form of Apocalypse) form a relationship with both see whose side of the story makes the most sense. But they don't seem to be as chatty as they are in my story.
Without Royal there is a hole inside of me, I have no choice but to leave
Yvette
Posts: 859
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7/17/2010 12:03:14 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 7/17/2010 11:48:01 AM, Cerebral_Narcissist wrote:
So if the judaeo-Christian God was shown to be in some capacity true how would you react? Just accept that reality sucks and get down on your knees? Become a true satanist and hope that the devil is actually the good guy and that he may somehow win? What would be your reaction? Just throwing it out there for a laugh.

Okay, but which Judeo-Christian God? Which Christian God? The religion is so full of inconsistencies that there really is no one Christian God.

If it was a loving and merciful god, great! If it was the god that commits genocide, allows suffering, etc, I would probably help "Satan", depending on how bad Satan was relatively. Satan doesn't sound nearly as bad as God does, though maybe I'm missing the passages where Satan murders children and kills people for giggles.
In the middle of moving to Washington. 8D

"If God does not exist, then chocolate causing cancer is only true for the society that has evidence for that." --GodSands
lovelife
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7/17/2010 12:05:58 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 7/17/2010 12:03:14 PM, Yvette wrote:
At 7/17/2010 11:48:01 AM, Cerebral_Narcissist wrote:
So if the judaeo-Christian God was shown to be in some capacity true how would you react? Just accept that reality sucks and get down on your knees? Become a true satanist and hope that the devil is actually the good guy and that he may somehow win? What would be your reaction? Just throwing it out there for a laugh.

Okay, but which Judeo-Christian God? Which Christian God? The religion is so full of inconsistencies that there really is no one Christian God.

If it was a loving and merciful god, great! If it was the god that commits genocide, allows suffering, etc, I would probably help "Satan", depending on how bad Satan was relatively. Satan doesn't sound nearly as bad as God does, though maybe I'm missing the passages where Satan murders children and kills people for giggles.

Satan doesn't do that, he just makes people want to have some fun while their living, God hates fun and will throw you in a firepit for it.
Without Royal there is a hole inside of me, I have no choice but to leave
Mirza
Posts: 16,992
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7/17/2010 12:29:20 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
Let me tell you something, Yvette.

First of all, I do not care if you believe in dinosaurs, fairies, flying carpets, talking plants, or anything else. What I care about is if you will treat me as a human being not.

In this case, you constantly attack belief in God. You think it ridiculous, horrible, delusional, and whatnot. Maybe the love you share with others is also delusional? You can never fully prove to me that you love anyone, ever. You can try to be an honest person and try to reflect your love, so that I may see signs of it, and I may somewhat believe that you feel it. Similarly, I may not be able to prove God's existence to you, but that should not make you such a disrespectful person who constantly attacks my belief in God. Why do you care what I believe in? Do you ask a person if his sexual orientation is real or a delusion? Why do you ask theists why they believe in God? Why do you bother disproving God to them? Do you know that to some of us, God is the only thing we have? He is our only hope for a better life, perhaps? Do you know this? Have you heard of it? Then why are you trying to attack our hope and only path to happiness?

Why do you not just discuss His existence mannerly instead of being such a tough-hearted person all the time when it comes to God, as if belief in Him was a threat to you? Let me tell you that even if I were an atheist, I would <never> recommend anyone to become an atheist. I think most arrogant people are those with little or no Faith God, and seeing how you and other atheists make these horrible threads instead of showing just a little respect, you are all good examples of this arrogance and disrespect. I do not mind you asking why someone does not accept the theory of evolution, but even if he does not, it is not your business. I can know it but not believe in it, and that is my case, not yours. You cannot and will not ever manage to explain why I should believe in what you believe in, and why I should deny the existence of God. I have no reason to. Do you think it is going to make me a more respectful person? What kind of a respectful person will I become by denying God? It is such horrible nonsense. If you do not want to believe in God, then do you know what? To each his own. If I want to believe in God, then do you know what? To you your way, to me mine. Do you understand this? You are being very disrespectful when you discuss God, because even though one can <know> everything about all scientific theories about how existence came, he does not necessarily have to believe in all of them. It does not even matter. It is <his/her> choice and does not hurt you even a little. I am rather going to know believe in what I think will make me a better person, make me respectful, give me a good conduct, give me the will to wish for others what I would wish for myself, feed the poor, have hope for happiness when I am drowning in sorrow, have hope of a better future when my past and present have been tearing my heart apart, and so forth! This is what I will rather choose as my way in life, and I do not care the slightest if you think that this is weakness or a delusion. Neither do I care if all the love you feel is a delusion. All I care about is if one day I may meet you or other atheists and be greeted, not shunned, only because I choose to believe in God.

Best wishes, I am out of this thread.
lovelife
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7/17/2010 12:33:06 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 7/17/2010 12:29:20 PM, Mirza wrote:

Mirza, not everyone with belief is rude, not every atheist is rude, rude people are on BOTH sides. The same goes for nice caring people. In fact isn't there a story in the bible about that? In this case I see you as the most wrong on this thread.
Without Royal there is a hole inside of me, I have no choice but to leave
InsertNameHere
Posts: 15,699
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7/17/2010 12:35:45 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 7/17/2010 12:33:06 PM, lovelife wrote:
At 7/17/2010 12:29:20 PM, Mirza wrote:

Mirza, not everyone with belief is rude, not every atheist is rude, rude people are on BOTH sides. The same goes for nice caring people. In fact isn't there a story in the bible about that? In this case I see you as the most wrong on this thread.

I'll have to agree with you. I have come across rude people on both sides as well. I have also come across nice people on both sides so really, religion usually has little to do with one's behaviour towards others.
Mirza
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7/17/2010 12:37:34 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 7/17/2010 12:33:06 PM, lovelife wrote:
Mirza, not everyone with belief is rude, not every atheist is rude, rude people are on BOTH sides. The same goes for nice caring people. In fact isn't there a story in the bible about that? In this case I see you as the most wrong on this thread.
Not worth asking me when I said I am out of here, but I will address your pnt.

I am not saying all atheists are bad. I am saying that I find most arrogant people being those who have little or no Faith in God, and that is a fact. Look how most atheists behave when discussing God. Go mind your own business instead of hurting our feelings all the time.

And I am the worst here? Do you know what? If you think I am the worst for thinking that many atheists are arrogant, it is not my fault. It is <their> fault. It is their fault for not letting me think otherwise. Not one single has explained why they act this way at all, and not one has condemned such atheists.
lovelife
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7/17/2010 12:40:56 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
(now I'm pointing out what I find the most offensive)

At 7/17/2010 12:29:20 PM, Mirza wrote:
Let me tell you something, Yvette.

First of all, I do not care if you believe in dinosaurs, fairies, flying carpets, talking plants, or anything else. What I care about is if you will treat me as a human being not.


Okay so thats fine

In this case, you constantly attack belief in God. You think it ridiculous, horrible, delusional, and whatnot. Maybe the love you share with others is also delusional? You can never fully prove to me that you love anyone, ever. You can try to be an honest person and try to reflect your love, so that I may see signs of it, and I may somewhat believe that you feel it. Similarly, I may not be able to prove God's existence to you, but that should not make you such a disrespectful person who constantly attacks my belief in God. Why do you care what I believe in? Do you ask a person if his sexual orientation is real or a delusion? Why do you ask theists why they believe in God? Why do you bother disproving God to them? Do you know that to some of us, God is the only thing we have? He is our only hope for a better life, perhaps? Do you know this? Have you heard of it? Then why are you trying to attack our hope and only path to happiness?


I'm constantly attacked for feeling love, and I don't go b*tching about it.

Why do you not just discuss His existence mannerly instead of being such a tough-hearted person all the time when it comes to God, as if belief in Him was a threat to you? Let me tell you that even if I were an atheist, I would <never> recommend anyone to become an atheist. I think most arrogant people are those with little or no Faith God, and seeing how you and other atheists make these horrible threads instead of showing just a little respect, you are all good examples of this arrogance and disrespect. I do not mind you asking why someone does not accept the theory of evolution, but even if he does not, it is not your business. I can know it but not believe in it, and that is my case, not yours. You cannot and will not ever manage to explain why I should believe in what you believe in, and why I should deny the existence of God. I have no reason to. Do you think it is going to make me a more respectful person? What kind of a respectful person will I become by denying God? It is such horrible nonsense. If you do not want to believe in God, then do you know what? To each his own. If I want to believe in God, then do you know what? To you your way, to me mine. Do you understand this? You are being very disrespectful when you discuss God, because even though one can <know> everything about all scientific theories about how existence came, he does not necessarily have to believe in all of them. It does not even matter. It is <his/her> choice and does not hurt you even a little. I am rather going to know believe in what I think will make me a better person, make me respectful, give me a good conduct, give me the will to wish for others what I would wish for myself, feed the poor, have hope for happiness when I am drowning in sorrow, have hope of a better future when my past and present have been tearing my heart apart, and so forth! (atheists can find things that do this. They can be good people WITHOUT God, yet he hates us cause we don't believe in him. Very NICE God going on there.) This is what I will rather choose as my way in life, and I do not care the slightest if you think that this is weakness or a delusion. Neither do I care if all the love you feel is a delusion. All I care about is if one day I may meet you or other atheists and be greeted, not shunned, only because I choose to believe in God.:
Best wishes, I am out of this thread.

I don't shun anyone just for believeing in God so I really wish you'd get over your stereo-typing of atheists, right now. I'm friends with many people that believe in God. Your Muslim aren't you? INH is too, andI have NO problem getting along with her cause you know what, SHE ACTUALLY HAS GOOD CONDUCT!
Without Royal there is a hole inside of me, I have no choice but to leave
Mirza
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7/17/2010 12:45:37 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 7/17/2010 12:40:56 PM, lovelife wrote:
I don't shun anyone just for believeing in God so I really wish you'd get over your stereo-typing of atheists, right now. I'm friends with many people that believe in God. Your Muslim aren't you? INH is too, andI have NO problem getting along with her cause you know what, SHE ACTUALLY HAS GOOD CONDUCT!
I am not stereotyping anything of atheists. I am saying that when it comes arrogance between them and theists, I believe nothing but that it is mostly on the side of atheists, but not that all atheists are arrogant at all. You seem to be more respectful than others, so you can ignore my post because it is addressed to those who actually hate me or anything similar for believing in God. Those who keep making these threads without a little respect. And I have no problem getting along with anyone who has a good conduct either.
lovelife
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7/17/2010 12:48:08 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 7/17/2010 12:37:34 PM, Mirza wrote:
At 7/17/2010 12:33:06 PM, lovelife wrote:
Mirza, not everyone with belief is rude, not every atheist is rude, rude people are on BOTH sides. The same goes for nice caring people. In fact isn't there a story in the bible about that? In this case I see you as the most wrong on this thread.
Not worth asking me when I said I am out of here, but I will address your pnt.


I only got halfway through it before I got really offended so sorry about that.

I am not saying all atheists are bad. I am saying that I find most arrogant people being those who have little or no Faith in God, and that is a fact. Look how most atheists behave when discussing God. Go mind your own business instead of hurting our feelings all the time.


I'm pretty sure those that believe are pretty arrogant too. Arrogant or rude, you get it on both sides. And many people with belief attack non believers and try and hurt their feelings all the time. Its not worth generalizing.

And I am the worst here? Do you know what? If you think I am the worst for thinking that many atheists are arrogant, it is not my fault. It is <their> fault. It is their fault for not letting me think otherwise. Not one single has explained why they act this way at all, and not one has condemned such atheists.

Stereotyping is bad either way. I don't go around saying that all Christians are hypocratical homophobic scum bags, do I? I don't say that Muslims=suicide bombing nutjob do I? In fact, if I remember right I DEFENDED Muslims.

I don't see me as acting the way you are saying, but if you ask me why I do not believe, the answer is clear, God is supposed to be all good and loving, he burns people for eternity just for not believing he exists. That doesn't sound loving or good to me, so I do not believe. If I find a non contradictory religion that speaks to me and makes me want to believe then sure I'd go for it. I have not so far, but I will search when my mom cannot see that I'm searching. I'm not close minded and arrogant, nor do I say everyone needs to believe my way. I'm a strong supporter of to each his own.
Without Royal there is a hole inside of me, I have no choice but to leave
lovelife
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7/17/2010 12:50:12 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 7/17/2010 12:45:37 PM, Mirza wrote:
At 7/17/2010 12:40:56 PM, lovelife wrote:
I don't shun anyone just for believeing in God so I really wish you'd get over your stereo-typing of atheists, right now. I'm friends with many people that believe in God. Your Muslim aren't you? INH is too, andI have NO problem getting along with her cause you know what, SHE ACTUALLY HAS GOOD CONDUCT!
I am not stereotyping anything of atheists. I am saying that when it comes arrogance between them and theists, I believe nothing but that it is mostly on the side of atheists, but not that all atheists are arrogant at all. You seem to be more respectful than others, so you can ignore my post because it is addressed to those who actually hate me or anything similar for believing in God. Those who keep making these threads without a little respect. And I have no problem getting along with anyone who has a good conduct either.

"All I care about is if one day I may meet you or other atheists and be greeted, not shunned, only because I choose to believe in God"

Just saying, that makes it sound like you were talking about every atheist.
Without Royal there is a hole inside of me, I have no choice but to leave
Mirza
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7/17/2010 12:53:29 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 7/17/2010 12:48:08 PM, lovelife wrote:
I only got halfway through it before I got really offended so sorry about that.
If you are arrogant, then the problem is yours, not mine. If not, need to feel offended, then.

I'm pretty sure those that believe are pretty arrogant too. Arrogant or rude, you get it on both sides. And many people with belief attack non believers and try and hurt their feelings all the time. Its not worth generalizing.
Yes, many theists are arrogant etc. However, I have definitely noticed that those are mostly those who have little Faith in God. If you count the numbers of threads made that are disrespectful, count the ones from atheists and theists, and compare them. Then we will see if we can generalize or not, and we surely can.

Stereotyping is bad either way. I don't go around saying that all Christians are hypocratical homophobic scum bags, do I? I don't say that Muslims=suicide bombing nutjob do I? In fact, if I remember right I DEFENDED Muslims.
Did I say atheists? Never, dear. I am talking about the arrogant ones, and believe they are greater in numbers per "believer" than theists.

PS: Thanks. I appreciate it.

I don't see me as acting the way you are saying, but if you ask me why I do not believe, the answer is clear, God is supposed to be all good and loving, he burns people for eternity just for not believing he exists. That doesn't sound loving or good to me, so I do not believe. If I find a non contradictory religion that speaks to me and makes me want to believe then sure I'd go for it. I have not so far, but I will search when my mom cannot see that I'm searching. I'm not close minded and arrogant, nor do I say everyone needs to believe my way. I'm a strong supporter of to each his own.
And that is a belief of mine, that people who deny Him and do evil thing will suffer as a justification. I have no problem with it, and neither should that belief of mine bother anyone. It does not make me treat you bad at all because you are an atheist. I just want to inform those arrogant atheists that my belief in God is my case, not theirs. It will not harm them.
Mirza
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7/17/2010 12:54:57 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 7/17/2010 12:50:12 PM, lovelife wrote:
"All I care about is if one day I may meet you or other atheists and be greeted, not shunned, only because I choose to believe in God"

Just saying, that makes it sound like you were talking about every atheist.
Firstly, that is nothing bad in any way. Secondly, I just meant that I hope I can meet atheists without being shunned. This is meant in a way that I hope they do not become more and more arrogant when it comes to numbers.

As for some atheists like you, I have nothing against at all. Not a little.
Mirza
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7/17/2010 12:55:45 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
"If you are arrogant, then the problem is yours, not mine. If not, need to feel offended, then."

Sorry, typo, as I said. I meant "no need to feel offended, then."
Yvette
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7/17/2010 12:56:14 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 7/17/2010 12:29:20 PM, Mirza wrote:
Let me tell you something, Yvette.

Sure, but you don't come from any position of authority.

First of all, I do not care if you believe in dinosaurs, fairies, flying carpets, talking plants, or anything else. What I care about is if you will treat me as a human being not.

And if my belief affects how I treat you? Specifically, we're talking about people who worship a god and live their lives by a book which glorifies genocide, human sacrifice, child murder, and forcing of minds. So yes, I think whether or not someone embraces such a book has very much to do with whether or not they'll treat me as a human being, wouldn't you say?

In this case, you constantly attack belief in God. You think it ridiculous, horrible, delusional, and whatnot. Maybe the love you share with others is also delusional? You can never fully prove to me that you love anyone, ever. You can try to be an honest person and try to reflect your love, so that I may see signs of it, and I may somewhat believe that you feel it. Similarly, I may not be able to prove God's existence to you, but that should not make you such a disrespectful person who constantly attacks my belief in God.

So...you're upset because I'm attacking your belief system on a debate site. I'm getting deja vu.

Why do you care what I believe in? Do you ask a person if his sexual orientation is real or a delusion? Why do you ask theists why they believe in God? Why do you bother disproving God to them?

Read above. Keep in mind you're responding to a thread in which I attacked scripture. I care very much if someone worships a god who will give them excuses for genocide and child murder.

Do you know that to some of us, God is the only thing we have? He is our only hope for a better life, perhaps? Do you know this? Have you heard of it? Then why are you trying to attack our hope and only path to happiness?

Why are you on a debate site? Seriously?

Why do you not just discuss His existence mannerly instead of being such a tough-hearted person all the time when it comes to God, as if belief in Him was a threat to you?

Because, let me repeat myself, it is a threat to me! I am sick and tired of religious violence, and your cries of, "respect my beliefs!" don't tug my heartstrings at all. Don't like it? Either don't live your life by scripture which glorifies killing nonbelievers, or stop complaining.

Let me tell you that even if I were an atheist, I would <never> recommend anyone to become an atheist.

You would if you saw that theists valued killing nontheists and children.

I think most arrogant people are those with little or no Faith God, and seeing how you and other atheists make these horrible threads instead of showing just a little respect, you are all good examples of this arrogance and disrespect.

Let me get this straight. People follow a scripture which glorifies murder of nonbelievers, and I'm the one showing disrespect? You have serious blinders on.

I do not mind you asking why someone does not accept the theory of evolution, but even if he does not, it is not your business. I can know it but not believe in it, and that is my case, not yours. You cannot and will not ever manage to explain why I should believe in what you believe in, and why I should deny the existence of God.

You. Are. On. A. Debate. Site.

I have no reason to. Do you think it is going to make me a more respectful person? What kind of a respectful person will I become by denying God? It is such horrible nonsense. If you do not want to believe in God, then do you know what? To each his own.

"To each his own" is apparently not the policy expressed in scripture. And because of that, this is why I fight religious belief.

If I want to believe in God, then do you know what? To you your way, to me mine. Do you understand this?

You're on a debate site. Either debate it or don't. You are acting like CJL, crying when someone challenges your beliefs. You are supposed to be the big scary theist debater of the site, yet you are complaining that religious beliefs are being challenged.

You are being very disrespectful when you discuss God, because even though one can <know> everything about all scientific theories about how existence came, he does not necessarily have to believe in all of them.

I'm being disrespectful? Seriously? Did you read the scripture I just quoted?

It does not even matter. It is <his/her> choice and does not hurt you even a little.

Yes. Yes it does hurt me. Did you read the scriptural quote?

I am rather going to know believe in what I think will make me a better person, make me respectful, give me a good conduct, give me the will to wish for others what I would wish for myself, feed the poor, have hope for happiness when I am drowning in sorrow, have hope of a better future when my past and present have been tearing my heart apart, and so forth!

And I don't need any of that belief to have all the same effects. What you are essentially saying is that you are believing it not because you think it is true but because it benefits you. Congratulations.

This is what I will rather choose as my way in life, and I do not care the slightest if you think that this is weakness or a delusion.

This is why you made a long, upset post, right?

Neither do I care if all the love you feel is a delusion. All I care about is if one day I may meet you or other atheists and be greeted, not shunned, only because I choose to believe in God.

I wish the same of the religious, yet obviously if they're worshipping a god and following scripture which promotes murder of nonbelievers, I can't expect that, can I? You ask respect of atheists yet the scripture calls for us to be murdered. How can you expect us to treat you nicely when you are defending this quote?

Best wishes, I am out of this thread.

Bye-bye.
In the middle of moving to Washington. 8D

"If God does not exist, then chocolate causing cancer is only true for the society that has evidence for that." --GodSands
Yvette
Posts: 859
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7/17/2010 12:57:25 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 7/17/2010 12:35:45 PM, InsertNameHere wrote:
At 7/17/2010 12:33:06 PM, lovelife wrote:
At 7/17/2010 12:29:20 PM, Mirza wrote:

Mirza, not everyone with belief is rude, not every atheist is rude, rude people are on BOTH sides. The same goes for nice caring people. In fact isn't there a story in the bible about that? In this case I see you as the most wrong on this thread.

I'll have to agree with you. I have come across rude people on both sides as well. I have also come across nice people on both sides so really, religion usually has little to do with one's behaviour towards others.

I agree, it is a two-way street, and people who think that only the other side can ever be wrong or mean are delusional.
In the middle of moving to Washington. 8D

"If God does not exist, then chocolate causing cancer is only true for the society that has evidence for that." --GodSands
Yvette
Posts: 859
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7/17/2010 12:59:03 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
So much for being "out of here".

Mirza, how about I write a book talking about how all theists should have their free will stripped from them, their children murdered, and their bodies chucked into flames still alive? And how about I live my life by that book and get others to?

Will you respect my belief and truly thing that my beliefs are not harmful to you?
In the middle of moving to Washington. 8D

"If God does not exist, then chocolate causing cancer is only true for the society that has evidence for that." --GodSands
Mirza
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7/17/2010 1:12:41 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 7/17/2010 12:56:14 PM, Yvette wrote:
Sure, but you don't come from any position of authority.
Neither do you.

And if my belief affects how I treat you? Specifically, we're talking about people who worship a god and live their lives by a book which glorifies genocide, human sacrifice, child murder, and forcing of minds. So yes, I think whether or not someone embraces such a book has very much to do with whether or not they'll treat me as a human being, wouldn't you say?
No. I find very few people in general who are affected negatively by that. In fact, if you dislike all this genocide in OT, fine. However, most of your posts are not about this, but just belief in God, and that is the problem here. You arrogantly attack my belief in God, and it is not your belief, so you can easily drop it.

So...you're upset because I'm attacking your belief system on a debate site. I'm getting deja vu.
No, that is not it. You can criticize it if you want. However, you do it as if I threatened you with my belief, and as if I were deluded. You insult arrogantly, you other negative comments, and so forth. If you just want to disprove God, then what is preventing you from doing it respectfully? You always do it as if you were talking about the negative aspects of belief in murder being good.

Read above. Keep in mind you're responding to a thread in which I attacked scripture. I care very much if someone worships a god who will give them excuses for genocide and child murder.
It is not only about this thread, but the rest of the posts and threads you have made. They are incredibly disrespectful. And if you want to discuss this, fine, but at least do not make such a thread calling what I believe is the Creator as "sick." I do not believe in this genocide being good at all, but I am not attacking all who believe in God. I would rather discuss with those who believe in God loving this.

Why are you on a debate site? Seriously?
I have no problem with <debating>. It is about . If you want to discuss mannerly, fine. <That> is debate. But calling God all kinds of names etc. is <not> debate. It is insult and disrespect. You will get <nothing> good out of it.

Because, let me repeat myself, it is a threat to me! I am sick and tired of religious violence, and your cries of, "respect my beliefs!" don't tug my heartstrings at all. Don't like it? Either don't live your life by scripture which glorifies killing nonbelievers, or stop complaining.
Thank God I do not, and that is what you should think of. Not all theists believe in God who wants murder all the time. If you want to attack the OT, which I also find disturbing at many places, especially when it comes to murder of children, then fine, but there is no need to be arrogant and disrespectful. And there is no need to call God this and that because God is not this way for all of us.

You would if you saw that theists valued killing nontheists and children.
So did and do atheists, and no. Whoever does something that bad is a horrible person. But not all, and not the majority, of theists are like this at all.

Let me get this straight. People follow a scripture which glorifies murder of nonbelievers, and I'm the one showing disrespect? You have serious blinders on.
You are generalizing belief in God, and that is the problem. I have also criticized these parts of OT, but not belief in God. And the main point is that you also act the exact same way even when it comes to theism, not belief in OT or any scripture, but just belief in God.

You. Are. On. A. Debate. Site.
Not on a arrogance-promoting site. You are not debating when you put forward insults.,

"To each his own" is apparently not the policy expressed in scripture. And because of that, this is why I fight religious belief.
You generalize it, and belief in God itself, especially by calling it a delusion etc. and insulting theists, even if they do not follow a scripture.

You're on a debate site. Either debate it or don't. You are acting like CJL, crying when someone challenges your beliefs.
No, never. I have been challenged a discussed all the time, but it is enough right now. You are not <debating> by <insulting>.

You are supposed to be the big scary theist debater of the site, yet you are complaining that religious beliefs are being challenged.
No, but about arrogance.

I'm being disrespectful? Seriously? Did you read the scripture I just quoted?
Yes, did all theists call you being one believer in delusion etc.?

Yes. Yes it does hurt me. Did you read the scriptural quote?
See above.

And I don't need any of that belief to have all the same effects. What you are essentially saying is that you are believing it not because you think it is true but because it benefits you. Congratulations.
Not true. I am talking about the benefits of belief in God vs. the benefits of these theories.

This is why you made a long, upset post, right?
I made it clear.

I wish the same of the religious, yet obviously if they're worshipping a god and following scripture which promotes murder of nonbelievers, I can't expect that, can I? You ask respect of atheists yet the scripture calls for us to be murdered. How can you expect us to treat you nicely when you are defending this quote?
I am not defending it. It is a bad quote. However, you generally attack and insult theists, and laugh at them, and that is the problem.

Bye-bye.
I have to go. All in all, I just wish that we can all respect each other. Goodbye.
popculturepooka
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7/17/2010 1:13:15 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
Allright one issue at a time...

At 7/17/2010 11:10:47 AM, Yvette wrote:

What we have here is God forcing someone's mind--meaning, the Pharaoh would have acted differently had God not forced his mind--so that God could commit genocide against children in order to show how "glorious" he really is.


2. Obviously, God doesn't care about free will when it comes to getting people to believe in and worship him. So with that in mind why doesn't God still do this? Why hasn't he killed all the firstborns of Iran so the world believes in him and worships him? He's done it once already.


Exodus 8:15: "But when Pharaoh saw that there was relief, he hardened his heart and would not listen to Moses and Aaron, just as the LORD had said."

Exodus 8:32: "But this time also Pharaoh hardened his heart and would not let the people go."

Exodus 9:34: "When Pharaoh saw that the rain and hail and thunder had stopped, he sinned again: He and his officials hardened their hearts."

1 Samuel 6:6: "Why do you harden your hearts as the Egyptians and Pharaoh did? When he [a] treated them harshly, did they not send the Israelites out so they could go on their way?"

And these passages didn't say who hardened Pharoah's heart:

Exodus 7:14: "Then the LORD said to Moses, "Pharaoh's heart is unyielding; he refuses to let the people go."

Exodus 8:19: "The magicians said to Pharaoh, "This is the finger of God." But Pharaoh's heart was hard and he would not listen, just as the LORD had said."

Exodus 9:7: " Pharaoh sent men to investigate and found that not even one of the animals of the Israelites had died. Yet his heart was unyielding and he would not let the people go."

Exodus 9:35: "So Pharaoh's heart was hard and he would not let the Israelites go, just as the LORD had said through Moses."

Besides those initial counterexamples that it was actually the Pharoah who hardened his own heart you fail to take into account Hebrew literary tradition which was highly, highly, idiomatic, poetic, and non-literal.

Taking that all into account it'd be more like Pharoah hardened his heart and God used it to achieve his own ends of freeing the slaves.

It'd be like saying that the police are caused the death of John Doe. Well, yeah, they killed him but that was only because he kidnapped 5 girls, refused negotiations but then got taken down by a police sniper. It's really Doe's fault in the first place.

Your claims about the Pharoah would've "acted differently" had God not "forced" him otherwise are false.

The standard way to interpret scripture is to look for more examples throughout the bible of how a particular phrase or word is used so you can get a fuller sense of the context. There are numerous descriptions throughout the Bible of the people hardening their own hearts. When we look at other passages it's pretty clear that God did not harden Pharoah's heart ....
At 10/3/2016 11:49:13 PM, thett3 wrote:
BLACK LIVES MATTER!
annhasle
Posts: 6,657
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7/17/2010 1:17:22 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 7/17/2010 12:37:34 PM, Mirza wrote:
At 7/17/2010 12:33:06 PM, lovelife wrote:
Mirza, not everyone with belief is rude, not every atheist is rude, rude people are on BOTH sides. The same goes for nice caring people. In fact isn't there a story in the bible about that? In this case I see you as the most wrong on this thread.
Not worth asking me when I said I am out of here, but I will address your pnt.

I am not saying all atheists are bad. I am saying that I find most arrogant people being those who have little or no Faith in God, and that is a fact. Look how most atheists behave when discussing God. Go mind your own business instead of hurting our feelings all the time.

And I am the worst here? Do you know what? If you think I am the worst for thinking that many atheists are arrogant, it is not my fault. It is <their> fault. It is their fault for not letting me think otherwise. Not one single has explained why they act this way at all, and not one has condemned such atheists.

I know you are "out of this thread" but for others reading this, I want to say as an atheist, "Wtf?" When I debate God, it's not to hurt your feelings at all. I want to see the logic in something I view as control of the weak. Do I find theists delusional? Some, yes. Do I believe as an atheist, I have more logic? Yes. But if you took the time to actually read all of the atheists' posts, then you'd see why we are here. We're here to debate something that affects our daily lives (in politics and society) even though we don't believe in it! That is upsetting if you are devoted to your non-belief like Yvette!

To those who feel attacked because of their beliefs... get over yourself. I'm sorry, but it's true. You have the right to not post on threads you don't like. You do no have to enter in debate that harms you in any way. And if you see debate as a personal attack, then go to other sites where the religious forums are for theists.

And Mirza, if you read this, here's a link to when I explained to Godsands why I was not a theist. So when you stated this, " Not one single has explained why they act this way at all...", you obviously haven't been looking for explanations. You're too wrapped up in your preconceived notions of atheists.

http://www.debate.org...
I'm not back. This idiot just upset me which made me stop lurking.
JustCallMeTarzan
Posts: 1,922
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7/17/2010 2:00:41 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 7/17/2010 11:30:11 AM, Yvette wrote:
At 7/17/2010 11:23:50 AM, JustCallMeTarzan wrote:
Agreed.

And, http://www.debate.org...

LOL!
I love the title.
/reads

There are some funnier ones I think...

This one I think is hysterical - http://www.debate.org...
This one too - http://www.debate.org...
And one of my favorites - http://www.debate.org...
annhasle
Posts: 6,657
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7/17/2010 2:33:00 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 7/17/2010 2:29:41 PM, tvellalott wrote:
Arrogence is relative.

Agreed.
I'm not back. This idiot just upset me which made me stop lurking.