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Let us Discover God

Bennett91
Posts: 4,237
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3/14/2015 1:13:44 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
I would like this forum to be an attempt to discuss and attempt to discuss what a universal being could be. May we as the religious thread try to "find" and define what God is. People of all faiths are allowed to participate**;

The goal of this thread is to find universal truths, truths that we all could live by to the betterment of all humans (however subjectivity may tread). Regardless if there is or is not a God, could we agree upon certain premises? Sure, subjectivity is rampant, I want ideas that we can all test (challenge) upon.

What is God? What does God want with us? Is God a singular being?

Let us discuss and question and learn, may we find out what God truly is?

I ask that all those who participate please, test yourself before you post. Expect to be tested. I want us to talk, maybe find a god. From the humanist perspective, what is our highest value?

What is GOD?

**BoG, MCB, Bendito, & all other preachers fuk off, I have no desire to hear preaching. I want a real discussion about what could be, not what you already posit to believe.
FaustianJustice
Posts: 6,239
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3/14/2015 1:26:57 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 3/14/2015 1:13:44 AM, Bennett91 wrote:
I would like this forum to be an attempt to discuss and attempt to discuss what a universal being could be. May we as the religious thread try to "find" and define what God is. People of all faiths are allowed to participate**;

The goal of this thread is to find universal truths, truths that we all could live by to the betterment of all humans (however subjectivity may tread). Regardless if there is or is not a God, could we agree upon certain premises? Sure, subjectivity is rampant, I want ideas that we can all test (challenge) upon.

What is God? What does God want with us? Is God a singular being?

Let us discuss and question and learn, may we find out what God truly is?

I ask that all those who participate please, test yourself before you post. Expect to be tested. I want us to talk, maybe find a god. From the humanist perspective, what is our highest value?

Highest value... hm. Equality, at least to me. That all are equal on some level, and through personal accomplishment or demonstrated worth does that field change.

Speaking from a practical position, does this God have an afterlife in its purview? I can't imagine a fair entity making an -eternal- reward or punishment for what happens on Earth, should It exist. I could see It being interested in human affairs, but I don't think to the point of direct or indirect intervention.

What is GOD?

**BoG, MCB, Bendito, & all other preachers fuk off, I have no desire to hear preaching. I want a real discussion about what could be, not what you already posit to believe.
Here we have an advocate for Islamic arranged marriages demonstrating that children can consent to sex.
http://www.debate.org...
Skyangel
Posts: 8,234
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3/14/2015 1:40:05 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 3/14/2015 1:13:44 AM, Bennett91 wrote:
I would like this forum to be an attempt to discuss and attempt to discuss what a universal being could be. May we as the religious thread try to "find" and define what God is. People of all faiths are allowed to participate**;

What do you define as a "universal being"?
The word "being" defined by http://www.merriam-webster.com...
as
*a living thing
*the state of existing
* the most important or basic part of a person's mind or self.

Is a "universal being" a "universally living thing" which has always existed in the universe and which is literally everywhere and in everything?
Is it a "universal state of existence" of ALL things in the universe ?
Is it about the basic part of mankind?
Is it about people becoming "of the same mind" universally? I somehow doubt that will ever happen due to opposite ideas being the "spice of life" which makes life fascinating and makes people think in a different and opposite way to that which they are accustomed.
Skyangel
Posts: 8,234
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3/14/2015 1:50:04 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 3/14/2015 1:13:44 AM, Bennett91 wrote:

The goal of this thread is to find universal truths, truths that we all could live by to the betterment of all humans (however subjectivity may tread). Regardless if there is or is not a God, could we agree upon certain premises? Sure, subjectivity is rampant, I want ideas that we can all test (challenge) upon.

Universal Truth? That would be something every person would need to believe and agree is 100% correct.
Here are some universal truths..... Please add to them.

1. Life reproduces life and also destroys life.
2. All people die at some stage of life even if it is before they are born.
3. Life has many CYCLES of reproduction.
4. Opposites exist and do not necessarily contradict each other.

Does anyone disagree or deny any of those truths so far?
Gentorev
Posts: 2,948
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3/14/2015 1:57:35 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 3/14/2015 1:40:05 AM, Skyangel wrote:
At 3/14/2015 1:13:44 AM, Bennett91 wrote:
I would like this forum to be an attempt to discuss and attempt to discuss what a universal being could be. May we as the religious thread try to "find" and define what God is. People of all faiths are allowed to participate**;

What do you define as a "universal being"?
The word "being" defined by http://www.merriam-webster.com...
as
*a living thing
*the state of existing
* the most important or basic part of a person's mind or self.

Is a "universal being" a "universally living thing" which has always existed in the universe and which is literally everywhere and in everything?
Is it a "universal state of existence" of ALL things in the universe ?
Is it about the basic part of mankind?
Is it about people becoming "of the same mind" universally? I somehow doubt that will ever happen due to opposite ideas being the "spice of life" which makes life fascinating and makes people think in a different and opposite way to that which they are accustomed.

Well you certainly do that Skyangel, you definitely think in a different and opposite way to everyone else. No one will ever become one with someone who refuses to believe in either creation or evolution, and who believes that human beings can only come from human beings, and that human beings have existed from all eternity, which means that all that sustains human life has always existed without change, in an ever changing=evolving universe.
Skyangel
Posts: 8,234
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3/14/2015 2:09:54 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 3/14/2015 1:13:44 AM, Bennett91 wrote:

What is God?

Your post IMPLIES that God is a "UNIVERSAL BEING".
I am waiting to see how you define your "universal being".

God is many different things to many different people. There are many ways to define and describe God/gods.

What does God want with us?

What makes anyone think any God wants or needs anything ? Is there some existing thing other than humans and animals in the universe trying to get human attention or have its "needs" met ?

Is God a singular being?
Not in my perception or opinion but God seems to be a singular supernatural person in the perception of other people. I gather that from the way they talk about "HIM" The word "HIM" in English refers to a singular individual. If they were talking about a group they would use the word THEM, THEY and THEIRS, not HE, HIM and HIS.

I ask that all those who participate please, test yourself before you post. Expect to be tested. I want us to talk, maybe find a god. From the humanist perspective, what is our highest value?

Different people have different values which they place on their lists of importance.
I personally place the TRUTH on top of my list of values. I am referring to HONESTY not to some speculation about what might be true about someones perception of "X" and what might not.

What is GOD?

In my perception God is all the ENERGY/ POWER of the universe which cannot be created or destroyed but simply recycles itself in various forms. It is not a person. It is a CYCLE, a PRINCIPLE, a POWER, a FORCE or whatever other words you would like to use to describe EXISTENCE RECYCLING itself in a self sustaining, self perpetuating cycle.
Gentorev
Posts: 2,948
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3/14/2015 3:02:19 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 3/14/2015 2:09:54 AM, Skyangel wrote:
At 3/14/2015 1:13:44 AM, Bennett91 wrote:

What is God?

Your post IMPLIES that God is a "UNIVERSAL BEING".
I am waiting to see how you define your "universal being".

God is many different things to many different people. There are many ways to define and describe God/gods.

What does God want with us?

What makes anyone think any God wants or needs anything ? Is there some existing thing other than humans and animals in the universe trying to get human attention or have its "needs" met ?

Is God a singular being?
Not in my perception or opinion but God seems to be a singular supernatural person in the perception of other people. I gather that from the way they talk about "HIM" The word "HIM" in English refers to a singular individual. If they were talking about a group they would use the word THEM, THEY and THEIRS, not HE, HIM and HIS.


I ask that all those who participate please, test yourself before you post. Expect to be tested. I want us to talk, maybe find a god. From the humanist perspective, what is our highest value?

Different people have different values which they place on their lists of importance.
I personally place the TRUTH on top of my list of values. I am referring to HONESTY not to some speculation about what might be true about someones perception of "X" and what might not.

What is GOD?

In my perception God is all the ENERGY/ POWER of the universe which cannot be created or destroyed but simply recycles itself in various forms. It is not a person. It is a CYCLE, a PRINCIPLE, a POWER, a FORCE or whatever other words you would like to use to describe EXISTENCE RECYCLING itself in a self sustaining, self perpetuating cycle.

And every single form that the ENERGY/POWER takes including human beings have a beginning and an end.
YassineB
Posts: 1,003
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3/14/2015 3:19:20 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 3/14/2015 1:13:44 AM, Bennett91 wrote:
I would like this forum to be an attempt to discuss and attempt to discuss what a universal being could be. May we as the religious thread try to "find" and define what God is. People of all faiths are allowed to participate**;

The goal of this thread is to find universal truths, truths that we all could live by to the betterment of all humans (however subjectivity may tread). Regardless if there is or is not a God, could we agree upon certain premises? Sure, subjectivity is rampant, I want ideas that we can all test (challenge) upon.

What is God?

- Only God knows Himself.

What does God want with us?

- God wants with us whatever He pleases.

Is God a singular being?

- He must be.

Let us discuss and question and learn, may we find out what God truly is?

- God is a concept that doesn't admit an opposite, so He is already outside the realm of Logic. Still, we can discuss His Attributes instead of Himself.

I ask that all those who participate please, test yourself before you post. Expect to be tested. I want us to talk, maybe find a god. From the humanist perspective, what is our highest value?

- If God exists, then the highest & only value is being not God.

What is GOD?

- Please elaborate this question, what do you mean what is God!
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Electric-Eccentric
Posts: 1,309
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3/14/2015 3:21:50 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
Where do milk and eggs come from?

When younger if you asked "city kids" that question, most would say that they "come from the store".

They put little or no thought into where the milk and eggs may of come from before the store as that wasn't important or required for them to eat and drink the items so that they may Live Life..

Does it really matter where milk and eggs come from before they get to the store to those that have no requirement for knowing beyond the store?

When superstitious minded people go about doing the maths, measuring and weighing they are MOSTLY using illusions and fictions as their FOUNDATIONS and starting points and such.

I look at the topic of where we come from and where we are going in much the same way that I look at outer space and how it can just go on and on and on and on and on and on and then more on and on and never ending.

If that is possible then humans always being humans also makes PERFECT sense.

That superstitious mindset sure makes a human stupid and ignorant when they get lost in their make believe and pretend realities.

Load em up move em out

rawhide

yahhh

moving those doggies
moving those doggies
moving along

yahh yahh.
Life is what YOU make it,
Most just try and fake it...
Skyangel
Posts: 8,234
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3/14/2015 3:25:28 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 3/14/2015 1:57:35 AM, Gentorev wrote:
At 3/14/2015 1:40:05 AM, Skyangel wrote:
At 3/14/2015 1:13:44 AM, Bennett91 wrote:
I would like this forum to be an attempt to discuss and attempt to discuss what a universal being could be. May we as the religious thread try to "find" and define what God is. People of all faiths are allowed to participate**;

What do you define as a "universal being"?
The word "being" defined by http://www.merriam-webster.com...
as
*a living thing
*the state of existing
* the most important or basic part of a person's mind or self.

Is a "universal being" a "universally living thing" which has always existed in the universe and which is literally everywhere and in everything?
Is it a "universal state of existence" of ALL things in the universe ?
Is it about the basic part of mankind?
Is it about people becoming "of the same mind" universally? I somehow doubt that will ever happen due to opposite ideas being the "spice of life" which makes life fascinating and makes people think in a different and opposite way to that which they are accustomed.

Well you certainly do that Skyangel, you definitely think in a different and opposite way to everyone else. No one will ever become one with someone who refuses to believe in either creation or evolution, and who believes that human beings can only come from human beings, and that human beings have existed from all eternity, which means that all that sustains human life has always existed without change, in an ever changing=evolving universe.

That just proves my mind is not stuck in the same ruts that most minds are stuck in. I have chosen to NOT be stuck in a religious rut or a scientific rut but am FREE from both ruts. Some people are stuck in both ruts and attempt to explain how their God created things through the process of evolution and then decided to change his mind and use a different process after the process of evolution had ended. I think those people are as confused as anyone can get.

Some of the BEST minds in history are those who did not think like everyone else but took a totally different path to the WIDE one that MOST follow.
I do not care if MOST people do not agree with me or become one with me due to MANY and MOST being on the WIDE path which leads to their ultimate destruction anyway.
I have been there and done that.
I have evolved or GROWN past that immature stage of my life. Others can catch up or not as they wish.
CREATION and EVOLUTION are obviously NOT the only two choices regarding LIFE in general. They are merely the only two MOST POPULARLY ACCEPTED choices.
MANY have been incorrect before and history tends to repeat itself due to MANY being like sheep which need to be LED. There are always MORE followers of other people in LIFE than leaders in LIFE.

Who believes that human beings can only come from human beings? Those who face REALITY and TRUTH rather than live in fantasy land where once upon a time humans did not exist at all but were magically created by some random phenomenon or supernatural entity who was bored with being alone.

Who believes that human beings have existed from all eternity? Those who can manage to do the math which proves humans increase as much into the past as they do into the future. The "Family Tree" has as many roots as it does leaves. Both keep growing larger as time goes by. There are more dead ancestors than there are living people on the planet and there will be more people in future generations than you can ever count in one human lifetime. Eternity is a LONG time and ETERNAL LIFE is a LIFE which has no beginning or end but has ALWAYS existed. It is INFINTE. It has no boundaries. It is not limited by a finite human mind which is stuck in the rut of linear thinking that begins at point A and ends at point Z.
INFINITY has no A and Z. It IS where the First IS the Last and the Last IS the First. A is Z and Z is A. It is the SAME point in the "time" of eternity.

The ENERGY of the universe is all that sustains human life. That ENERGY has always existed. It is not without change. The ENERGY itself a CYCLE of constant change. It is not stagnant. It is constantly RECYCLING itself in its SELF SUSTAINING LIFE CYCLE where birth leads to death and death of the old leads to the birth of new things which are not really New but merely a recycled version of what has always existed in the past. Such is the REALITY of LIFE.
It is all ENERGY which cannot be created or destroyed but is ETERNALLY EXISTING and eternally recycling itself in constant motion where darkness changes to light and light changes to darkness.

Think about that outside the box of finite thinking patterns.
Electric-Eccentric
Posts: 1,309
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3/14/2015 3:33:28 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
Reading over your post Sky made me think about how Princess Piggy Poo would have a odd look on her face and look at her butt when she farted.

It seemed to surprise her every time.
Life is what YOU make it,
Most just try and fake it...
Skyangel
Posts: 8,234
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3/14/2015 3:42:57 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 3/14/2015 3:02:19 AM, Gentorev wrote:
At 3/14/2015 2:09:54 AM, Skyangel wrote:
At 3/14/2015 1:13:44 AM, Bennett91 wrote:

What is God?

Your post IMPLIES that God is a "UNIVERSAL BEING".
I am waiting to see how you define your "universal being".

God is many different things to many different people. There are many ways to define and describe God/gods.

What does God want with us?

What makes anyone think any God wants or needs anything ? Is there some existing thing other than humans and animals in the universe trying to get human attention or have its "needs" met ?

Is God a singular being?
Not in my perception or opinion but God seems to be a singular supernatural person in the perception of other people. I gather that from the way they talk about "HIM" The word "HIM" in English refers to a singular individual. If they were talking about a group they would use the word THEM, THEY and THEIRS, not HE, HIM and HIS.


I ask that all those who participate please, test yourself before you post. Expect to be tested. I want us to talk, maybe find a god. From the humanist perspective, what is our highest value?

Different people have different values which they place on their lists of importance.
I personally place the TRUTH on top of my list of values. I am referring to HONESTY not to some speculation about what might be true about someones perception of "X" and what might not.

What is GOD?

In my perception God is all the ENERGY/ POWER of the universe which cannot be created or destroyed but simply recycles itself in various forms. It is not a person. It is a CYCLE, a PRINCIPLE, a POWER, a FORCE or whatever other words you would like to use to describe EXISTENCE RECYCLING itself in a self sustaining, self perpetuating cycle.

And every single form that the ENERGY/POWER takes including human beings have a beginning and an end.

Of course individual life forms have a beginning and end in the sense of being born and dying but LIFE in general does not. The physical perishes but the CYCLE, the PRINCIPLE, the ENERGY continues. It cannot be destroyed. It is self sustaining.
Life has BOTH a finite aspect as well as an infinite aspect.
You need to understand BOTH if you wish to understand the FULLNESS of ETERNAL LIFE and what it means in reality.
It does not mean that individual life forms live eternally. It means Life in general goes on in spite of individual death. No matter how many life forms die, the living keep on living because the LIFE before them reproduced them before it died.
The "NEW" is always replacing the "OLD" except when humans refuse to let go of OLD traditions and continue to live in the "dark ages" of superstition and myths due to not wanting to let go of them. It seems FEAR of losing what they are trying to hold on to so badly hinders their progress.
Skyangel
Posts: 8,234
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3/14/2015 3:53:20 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 3/14/2015 3:33:28 AM, Electric-Eccentric wrote:
Reading over your post Sky made me think about how Princess Piggy Poo would have a odd look on her face and look at her butt when she farted.

It seemed to surprise her every time.

Maybe she never understood that what goes in must come out somewhere sooner or later.
A princess can always blame a dog for any natural disasters. ;-)
JJ50
Posts: 2,144
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3/14/2015 3:53:22 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
I am of the opinion that all the deities worshipped by people are human creations. I reckon that if any deity actually exists its nature is well beyond human imaginings.
Electric-Eccentric
Posts: 1,309
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3/14/2015 4:13:17 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 3/14/2015 3:53:22 AM, JJ50 wrote:
I am of the opinion that all the deities worshipped by people are human creations. I reckon that if any deity actually exists its nature is well beyond human imaginings.

EE: If plants and lower animals don't require Gods and deities,

WHY would humans that want to believe that they are wise and smarter then the plants and lower animals?

Seems that the plants, lower animals and those of the Few humans are the ones on the proper path of Life.

Now some superstitious religious fanatic may say that their God choose to ONLY speak His Word to humans.

And the superstitious science fanatics will come up with something about their being proof that some plants have feelings and how the sunflower is intelligent and how if your have a large space of air that in scientific theory there should be some swiss cheese around it and other such make believe and pretend.
Life is what YOU make it,
Most just try and fake it...
Illegalcombatant
Posts: 4,008
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3/14/2015 5:04:43 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 3/14/2015 1:13:44 AM, Bennett91 wrote:
I would like this forum to be an attempt to discuss and attempt to discuss what a universal being could be. May we as the religious thread try to "find" and define what God is. People of all faiths are allowed to participate**;

The goal of this thread is to find universal truths, truths that we all could live by to the betterment of all humans (however subjectivity may tread). Regardless if there is or is not a God, could we agree upon certain premises? Sure, subjectivity is rampant, I want ideas that we can all test (challenge) upon.

If a God proposition could be tested, then well it's science, science loves things we can test.

In case you have not noticed religion as created God/s that are beyond testability Hence the catch cry.............YOU CAN"T PROVE THAT GOD DOESN"T EXIST.


What is God? What does God want with us? Is God a singular being?

Let us discuss and question and learn, may we find out what God truly is?

I ask that all those who participate please, test yourself before you post. Expect to be tested. I want us to talk, maybe find a god. From the humanist perspective, what is our highest value?

What is GOD?

**BoG, MCB, Bendito, & all other preachers fuk off, I have no desire to hear preaching. I want a real discussion about what could be, not what you already posit to believe.
"Seems like another attempt to insert God into areas our knowledge has yet to penetrate. You figure God would be bigger than the gaps of our ignorance." Drafterman 19/5/12
Gentorev
Posts: 2,948
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3/14/2015 6:21:14 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 3/14/2015 4:13:17 AM, Electric-Eccentric wrote:
At 3/14/2015 3:53:22 AM, JJ50 wrote:
I am of the opinion that all the deities worshipped by people are human creations. I reckon that if any deity actually exists its nature is well beyond human imaginings.

EE: If plants and lower animals don't require Gods and deities,

WHY would humans that want to believe that they are wise and smarter then the plants and lower animals?

Seems that the plants, lower animals and those of the Few humans are the ones on the proper path of Life.

Now some superstitious religious fanatic may say that their God choose to ONLY speak His Word to humans.

And the superstitious science fanatics will come up with something about their being proof that some plants have feelings and how the sunflower is intelligent and how if your have a large space of air that in scientific theory there should be some swiss cheese around it and other such make believe and pretend.

Reveal to us all, what plant or animal life form that developed before mankind, who has the ability to scan the heavens, and identify any incoming celestial body which threatens all life on earth, and can then begin to develop some method of destroying or diverting the path of that potential impacting body and be the saviour of all life on earth.

Or, if that cosmic catastrophic event cannot be averted, what life form has the intelligence to create a genetic bank of the many earthly life forms and send them with human observers to a place of safety, from which they may return when the earth is once again able to sustain physical life forms, and create anew, the earth as it was before?
Bennett91
Posts: 4,237
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3/14/2015 11:21:03 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 3/14/2015 1:26:57 AM, FaustianJustice wrote:

Highest value... hm. Equality, at least to me. That all are equal on some level, and through personal accomplishment or demonstrated worth does that field change.

What does this equality entail? Through merit we become unequal, but should that basic level of humaness grant us any entitlements? How does the concept of equality stack against the concept of God, who would probably be superior to us? Is God better than us through merit?

Speaking from a practical position, does this God have an afterlife in its purview? I can't imagine a fair entity making an -eternal- reward or punishment for what happens on Earth, should It exist. I could see It being interested in human affairs, but I don't think to the point of direct or indirect intervention.

Why not? Why would God, if interested, not have at least some hands on approach? Do you reject the idea of the Great Flood?
Bennett91
Posts: 4,237
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3/14/2015 11:28:11 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 3/14/2015 1:40:05 AM, Skyangel wrote:

What do you define as a "universal being"?
The word "being" defined by http://www.merriam-webster.com...
as
*a living thing
*the state of existing
* the most important or basic part of a person's mind or self.

I have no given definition. Universal being could mean an anthropomorphic character living beyond this dimension or it could humanity as a whole, as a macro-organism.

Is a "universal being" a "universally living thing" which has always existed in the universe and which is literally everywhere and in everything?
Is it a "universal state of existence" of ALL things in the universe ?
Is it about the basic part of mankind?
Is it about people becoming "of the same mind" universally? I somehow doubt that will ever happen due to opposite ideas being the "spice of life" which makes life fascinating and makes people think in a different and opposite way to that which they are accustomed.

These are question I wish discussed, as is the purpose of this thread.

Universal Truth? That would be something every person would need to believe and agree is 100% correct.

One can always disagree, that does not invalidate said truth. But what I meant was a truth that we could live by,if one were to go against it then they would invariably suffer. Truths that if we followed we could be happy. Of course this sets up many inherent challenges but hey, that's the point of this forum to discuss.

Here are some universal truths..... Please add to them.

1. Life reproduces life and also destroys life.
2. All people die at some stage of life even if it is before they are born.
3. Life has many CYCLES of reproduction.
4. Opposites exist and do not necessarily contradict each other.

Does anyone disagree or deny any of those truths so far?

Very interesting. I withhold judgment. Given these truths, what does this mean towards how we should live?
Envisage
Posts: 3,646
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3/14/2015 11:29:30 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
This is completely wrong. You do not start with the conclusion and try to find ways to justify it, that's an asinine way to approach investigation of the world. This should be a natural outcome of our general investigation of the world. Anything else is leading the evidence to the conclusion.

All of our important discoveries have been a result of investigation of where the evidence leads us. Religion/theism all to often gets this entirely backwards.
Bennett91
Posts: 4,237
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3/14/2015 11:35:00 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 3/14/2015 3:19:20 AM, YassineB wrote:

What is God?

- Only God knows Himself.

I would imagine being part of God, we could have some direct incite. Or would you say that we are wholly separate from God?

What does God want with us?

- God wants with us whatever He pleases.

May we have some incite as to what He pleases? If God wants arbitrary or cruel things is that not important to know?

Is God a singular being?

- He must be.

Why? Why must we reject a pantheon? Or perhaps a singular God of many beings such as Hinduism or Christianity?

Let us discuss and question and learn, may we find out what God truly is?

- God is a concept that doesn't admit an opposite, so He is already outside the realm of Logic. Still, we can discuss His Attributes instead of Himself.

Then there is room for incite. Besides the Quran, how could we tap into such incite? Can we observe God's attribute through perhaps nature? Human interaction?

I ask that all those who participate please, test yourself before you post. Expect to be tested. I want us to talk, maybe find a god. From the humanist perspective, what is our highest value?

- If God exists, then the highest & only value is being not God.

Not being God? I would think the highest value WOULD be to be like God.

What is GOD?

- Please elaborate this question, what do you mean what is God!

The question needs no elaboration, simply an answer (however complex that may be).
Bennett91
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3/14/2015 11:40:10 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 3/14/2015 3:21:50 AM, Electric-Eccentric wrote:
Where do milk and eggs come from?

A cow and duck respectively.

When younger if you asked "city kids" that question, most would say that they "come from the store".

They put little or no thought into where the milk and eggs may of come from before the store as that wasn't important or required for them to eat and drink the items so that they may Live Life..

Does it really matter where milk and eggs come from before they get to the store to those that have no requirement for knowing beyond the store?

Obviously yes, that is the point of this thread, to ask what makes the milk and eggs and how do we discover such answers.

When superstitious minded people go about doing the maths, measuring and weighing they are MOSTLY using illusions and fictions as their FOUNDATIONS and starting points and such.

What about non superstitious folk?

I look at the topic of where we come from and where we are going in much the same way that I look at outer space and how it can just go on and on and on and on and on and on and then more on and on and never ending.

How do you respond to the paradox of the infinite regress?

If that is possible then humans always being humans also makes PERFECT sense.

If evolution is true, then technically humans will evolve to a point that we are not "human" anymore. Of course given our bias as we gradually change we'll always call ourselves human, not fully remembering our past being, but from an outside perspective we'd be different.

That superstitious mindset sure makes a human stupid and ignorant when they get lost in their make believe and pretend realities.

Load em up move em out

rawhide

yahhh

moving those doggies
moving those doggies
moving along

yahh yahh.

Any incites to offer as to what could be considered God?
Electric-Eccentric
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3/14/2015 11:44:53 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 3/14/2015 6:21:14 AM, Gentorev wrote:
At 3/14/2015 4:13:17 AM, Electric-Eccentric wrote:
At 3/14/2015 3:53:22 AM, JJ50 wrote:
I am of the opinion that all the deities worshipped by people are human creations. I reckon that if any deity actually exists its nature is well beyond human imaginings.

EE: If plants and lower animals don't require Gods and deities,

WHY would humans that want to believe that they are wise and smarter then the plants and lower animals?

Seems that the plants, lower animals and those of the Few humans are the ones on the proper path of Life.

Now some superstitious religious fanatic may say that their God choose to ONLY speak His Word to humans.

And the superstitious science fanatics will come up with something about their being proof that some plants have feelings and how the sunflower is intelligent and how if your have a large space of air that in scientific theory there should be some swiss cheese around it and other such make believe and pretend.

Reveal to us all, what plant or animal life form that developed before mankind, who has the ability to scan the heavens, and identify any incoming celestial body which threatens all life on earth, and can then begin to develop some method of destroying or diverting the path of that potential impacting body and be the saviour of all life on earth.

Or, if that cosmic catastrophic event cannot be averted, what life form has the intelligence to create a genetic bank of the many earthly life forms and send them with human observers to a place of safety, from which they may return when the earth is once again able to sustain physical life forms, and create anew, the earth as it was before?

EE: That's some pretty superstitious stuff you taking there.

Only self deceived humans believe in and follow the ways of superstition.

Plants, animals and those humans of the Few don't require the escape of make believe and pretend realities.

You need to GROW UP and leave the childish ways behind you and get a real clue or 2.
Life is what YOU make it,
Most just try and fake it...
Bennett91
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3/14/2015 11:45:02 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 3/14/2015 5:04:43 AM, Illegalcombatant wrote:
At 3/14/2015 1:13:44 AM, Bennett91 wrote:
I would like this forum to be an attempt to discuss and attempt to discuss what a universal being could be. May we as the religious thread try to "find" and define what God is. People of all faiths are allowed to participate**;

The goal of this thread is to find universal truths, truths that we all could live by to the betterment of all humans (however subjectivity may tread). Regardless if there is or is not a God, could we agree upon certain premises? Sure, subjectivity is rampant, I want ideas that we can all test (challenge) upon.

If a God proposition could be tested, then well it's science, science loves things we can test.

True. But I imagine God could create scenarios that defy testability. For example, he could make a table levitate and have scientists say "by no rational means could this be happening." Or if you take the more 'collective conscious' approach things like the mind can't be tested. Like how do the inanimate atoms that make our body form the animate body?

In case you have not noticed religion as created God/s that are beyond testability Hence the catch cry.............YOU CAN"T PROVE THAT GOD DOESN"T EXIST.

We'll have to assume that something that can be defined as God exists. Is there any way in which we can glean incite?
Bennett91
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3/14/2015 11:46:48 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 3/14/2015 3:53:22 AM, JJ50 wrote:
I am of the opinion that all the deities worshipped by people are human creations. I reckon that if any deity actually exists its nature is well beyond human imaginings.

An acceptable answer.

But could we some how posit that we are connected to God in some way? As a child to his mother? And perhaps through this connection we can somehow imagine its nature?
Bennett91
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3/14/2015 11:51:43 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 3/14/2015 11:29:30 AM, Envisage wrote:
This is completely wrong. You do not start with the conclusion and try to find ways to justify it, that's an asinine way to approach investigation of the world. This should be a natural outcome of our general investigation of the world. Anything else is leading the evidence to the conclusion.

I never posited a definition or even answer to the question of God. I am merely asking if we can, through dialogue, come to a definition as to what God is or could be. This definition does not need to be a sky daddy watching above us (although could be), it could simply be humanity in general, or God could be a cynical term for materialistic/survivalist instinct.

So in other words I am inducing that natural outcome through dialogue to lead towards an an answer, just as you prescribe.

All of our important discoveries have been a result of investigation of where the evidence leads us. Religion/theism all to often gets this entirely backwards.

Then let us investigate.
Electric-Eccentric
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3/14/2015 12:24:06 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
EE; Where do milk and eggs come from?

Ben: A cow and duck respectively.

EE; "When younger if you asked "city kids" that question, most would say that they "come from the store".

They put little or no thought into where the milk and eggs may of come from before the store as that wasn't important or required for them to eat and drink the items so that they may Live Life..

Does it really matter where milk and eggs come from before they get to the store to those that have no requirement for knowing beyond the store?"

The point I was making is DOES it really matter if "city folks" don't put much thought in the direction of where the milk and eggs come from beyond the store?

I don't believe it does. They will still get their milk and eggs from the store as there are ALWAYS more "others" that want to supply milk and eggs then there is people that buy milk and eggs.

Ben: What about non superstitious folk?

EE: Do you know of any besides Skyangel and I?

Ben: How do you respond to the paradox of the infinite regress?

EE: If there is a large void of space, there must be some swiss cheese around it.

I'm saying that the theories of so called science are no different then regular everyday theories. They just have the real cheese logo on them.

Ben: If evolution is true, then technically humans will evolve to a point that we are not "human" anymore. Of course given our bias as we gradually change we'll always call ourselves human, not fully remembering our past being, but from an outside perspective we'd be different.

EE: When we deal in the fantasy and science fiction genre, we can come up with whatever we can day dream up within our make believe and pretend realities.

Ben: Any incites to offer as to what could be considered God?

EE: Depends on if you are talking about a make believe and pretend God/god or The True Living God/god

The make believe and pretend God/god is invisible or made of sticks stuck in the mud and such.

The One True Living God/god is Life it's self simply put.

If plants and animals don't require invisible Gods/gods and such,

WHY should humans unless they were brainwashed and programed with superstitious concepts.

When people limit their free will choices to a few things on a popular list, they become limited in understanding the BIGGER picture that is right in front of us and within us.

Always has been, is and will always be.

When that is the mindset of a human they are not confused by the deceptions and lies called good by the many superstitious.
Life is what YOU make it,
Most just try and fake it...
Skyangel
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3/14/2015 3:53:16 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 3/14/2015 11:28:11 AM, Bennett91 wrote:
At 3/14/2015 1:40:05 AM, Skyangel wrote:

What do you define as a "universal being"?

I have no given definition. Universal being could mean an anthropomorphic character living beyond this dimension or it could humanity as a whole, as a macro-organism.

Anthropomorphic characters live only in the dimension of fantasy. Many people already worship an anthropomorphic character as God.
How about the whole universe as a macoorganism? At least the universe is real.

Is a "universal being" a "universally living thing" which has always existed in the universe and which is literally everywhere and in everything?
Is it a "universal state of existence" of ALL things in the universe ?
Is it about the basic part of mankind?
Is it about people becoming "of the same mind" universally? I somehow doubt that will ever happen due to opposite ideas being the "spice of life" which makes life fascinating and makes people think in a different and opposite way to that which they are accustomed.

These are question I wish discussed, as is the purpose of this thread.

Then discuss them. Don't you have any thoughts or answers to the questions?

Universal Truth? That would be something every person would need to believe and agree is 100% correct.

One can always disagree, that does not invalidate said truth. But what I meant was a truth that we could live by,if one were to go against it then they would invariably suffer. Truths that if we followed we could be happy. Of course this sets up many inherent challenges but hey, that's the point of this forum to discuss.

People live life the way they see fit. Mostly to fulfill their own desires and survive the best they can. All actions have consequences. Whether people suffer from the consequences of their own actions or not depends on whether the result of their actions is what they intended or not.
An ancient writer put it this way ...... Eat, drink and be happy for "tomorrow" we die.

Here are some universal truths..... Please add to them.

1. Life reproduces life and also destroys life.
2. All people die at some stage of life even if it is before they are born.
3. Life has many CYCLES of reproduction.
4. Opposites exist and do not necessarily contradict each other.

Does anyone disagree or deny any of those truths so far?

Very interesting. I withhold judgment. Given these truths, what does this mean towards how we should live?

Do as the ancient writer said... Eat drink and be happy because sooner or later all end up in the grave.
Life is about survival and caring for one another.
Simply accept life as it is. Have the courage to change what you can change. Accept what cannot be changed. Make sure you have the wisdom to know the difference.
Skyangel
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3/14/2015 4:01:10 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 3/14/2015 11:44:53 AM, Electric-Eccentric wrote:
At 3/14/2015 6:21:14 AM, Gentorev wrote:

Reveal to us all, what plant or animal life form that developed before mankind, who has the ability to scan the heavens, and identify any incoming celestial body which threatens all life on earth, and can then begin to develop some method of destroying or diverting the path of that potential impacting body and be the saviour of all life on earth.

Or, if that cosmic catastrophic event cannot be averted, what life form has the intelligence to create a genetic bank of the many earthly life forms and send them with human observers to a place of safety, from which they may return when the earth is once again able to sustain physical life forms, and create anew, the earth as it was before?

EE: That's some pretty superstitious stuff you taking there.

Only self deceived humans believe in and follow the ways of superstition.

Plants, animals and those humans of the Few don't require the escape of make believe and pretend realities.

You need to GROW UP and leave the childish ways behind you and get a real clue or 2.

Gentorev is a space cadet. He likes to fly to infinity and beyond... to explore the far reaches of outer space... to go where no man has been before... to find a planet of safety so he can hide from all Earthly destruction.
bornofgod
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3/14/2015 4:14:07 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 3/14/2015 1:13:44 AM, Bennett91 wrote:
I would like this forum to be an attempt to discuss and attempt to discuss what a universal being could be. May we as the religious thread try to "find" and define what God is. People of all faiths are allowed to participate**;

The goal of this thread is to find universal truths, truths that we all could live by to the betterment of all humans (however subjectivity may tread). Regardless if there is or is not a God, could we agree upon certain premises? Sure, subjectivity is rampant, I want ideas that we can all test (challenge) upon.

What is God? What does God want with us? Is God a singular being?

Let us discuss and question and learn, may we find out what God truly is?

I ask that all those who participate please, test yourself before you post. Expect to be tested. I want us to talk, maybe find a god. From the humanist perspective, what is our highest value?

What is GOD?

GOD is the TRUTH you IDIOT. That's why you're called a liar because you do NOT SPEAK the TRUTH.

**BoG, MCB, Bendito, & all other preachers fuk off, I have no desire to hear preaching. I want a real discussion about what could be, not what you already posit to believe.