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If you get your morality from religion...

twocupcakes
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3/14/2015 10:26:54 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
If you get your morality from religion you are a psychopath. Good people develop a consciousness and empathy. They know it is wrong to steal, assault or insult people because it causes others pain and is not fair to them.

If someone learns what is right or wrong from reading a text they are a psychopath. Good people do not do good because that is what the read in a book or that is what they are "told" to do, they do it because they intrinsically know that it is good. Psychopaths have a man in their head telling them what to do. For example, the guy in the Bible who was ready to kill his son because God said so is a psychopath.
Skepsikyma
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3/14/2015 10:33:18 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 3/14/2015 10:26:54 AM, twocupcakes wrote:
If you get your morality from religion you are a psychopath. Good people develop a consciousness and empathy. They know it is wrong to steal, assault or insult people because it causes others pain and is not fair to them.

If someone learns what is right or wrong from reading a text they are a psychopath. Good people do not do good because that is what the read in a book or that is what they are "told" to do, they do it because they intrinsically know that it is good. Psychopaths have a man in their head telling them what to do. For example, the guy in the Bible who was ready to kill his son because God said so is a psychopath.

I'm pretty sure you have no idea what the word psychopath means.
"The Collectivist experiment is thoroughly suited (in appearance at least) to the Capitalist society which it proposes to replace. It works with the existing machinery of Capitalism, talks and thinks in the existing terms of Capitalism, appeals to just those appetites which Capitalism has aroused, and ridicules as fantastic and unheard-of just those things in society the memory of which Capitalism has killed among men wherever the blight of it has spread."
- Hilaire Belloc -
twocupcakes
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3/14/2015 11:31:17 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 3/14/2015 10:33:18 AM, Skepsikyma wrote:
At 3/14/2015 10:26:54 AM, twocupcakes wrote:
If you get your morality from religion you are a psychopath. Good people develop a consciousness and empathy. They know it is wrong to steal, assault or insult people because it causes others pain and is not fair to them.

If someone learns what is right or wrong from reading a text they are a psychopath. Good people do not do good because that is what the read in a book or that is what they are "told" to do, they do it because they intrinsically know that it is good. Psychopaths have a man in their head telling them what to do. For example, the guy in the Bible who was ready to kill his son because God said so is a psychopath.

I'm pretty sure you have no idea what the word psychopath means.

Maybe I don't. But, I think my point is pretty clear.

I use psychopath to mean someone who is capable of doing inhumane things like killing people because of a voice in their head.
Skepsikyma
Posts: 8,286
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3/14/2015 11:41:03 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 3/14/2015 11:31:17 AM, twocupcakes wrote:
At 3/14/2015 10:33:18 AM, Skepsikyma wrote:
At 3/14/2015 10:26:54 AM, twocupcakes wrote:
If you get your morality from religion you are a psychopath. Good people develop a consciousness and empathy. They know it is wrong to steal, assault or insult people because it causes others pain and is not fair to them.

If someone learns what is right or wrong from reading a text they are a psychopath. Good people do not do good because that is what the read in a book or that is what they are "told" to do, they do it because they intrinsically know that it is good. Psychopaths have a man in their head telling them what to do. For example, the guy in the Bible who was ready to kill his son because God said so is a psychopath.

I'm pretty sure you have no idea what the word psychopath means.

Maybe I don't. But, I think my point is pretty clear.

I use psychopath to mean someone who is capable of doing inhumane things like killing people because of a voice in their head.

Most religious people don't claim to hear God talk back. In fact, in Islam one of the basic tenets is that God's revelation to Muhammad was the final one (Khatam an-Nabiyyin, or the Seal of the Prophets), so to claim to hear God's voice (to receive a new revelation) would be tantamount to leaving Islam by violating a basic tenet. Even most Christians don't make that claim.
"The Collectivist experiment is thoroughly suited (in appearance at least) to the Capitalist society which it proposes to replace. It works with the existing machinery of Capitalism, talks and thinks in the existing terms of Capitalism, appeals to just those appetites which Capitalism has aroused, and ridicules as fantastic and unheard-of just those things in society the memory of which Capitalism has killed among men wherever the blight of it has spread."
- Hilaire Belloc -
Skepsikyma
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3/14/2015 11:43:37 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 3/14/2015 11:31:17 AM, twocupcakes wrote:
At 3/14/2015 10:33:18 AM, Skepsikyma wrote:
At 3/14/2015 10:26:54 AM, twocupcakes wrote:
If you get your morality from religion you are a psychopath. Good people develop a consciousness and empathy. They know it is wrong to steal, assault or insult people because it causes others pain and is not fair to them.

If someone learns what is right or wrong from reading a text they are a psychopath. Good people do not do good because that is what the read in a book or that is what they are "told" to do, they do it because they intrinsically know that it is good. Psychopaths have a man in their head telling them what to do. For example, the guy in the Bible who was ready to kill his son because God said so is a psychopath.

I'm pretty sure you have no idea what the word psychopath means.

Maybe I don't. But, I think my point is pretty clear.

I use psychopath to mean someone who is capable of doing inhumane things like killing people because of a voice in their head.

And killing people is sometimes permitted my book any way, so it's not that big of a deal to me that religious people kill some people, nor do I attribute all such killings solely to religion. You can't make an omelet without breaking a few eggs.
"The Collectivist experiment is thoroughly suited (in appearance at least) to the Capitalist society which it proposes to replace. It works with the existing machinery of Capitalism, talks and thinks in the existing terms of Capitalism, appeals to just those appetites which Capitalism has aroused, and ridicules as fantastic and unheard-of just those things in society the memory of which Capitalism has killed among men wherever the blight of it has spread."
- Hilaire Belloc -
twocupcakes
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3/15/2015 9:53:02 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 3/14/2015 11:41:03 AM, Skepsikyma wrote:
At 3/14/2015 11:31:17 AM, twocupcakes wrote:
At 3/14/2015 10:33:18 AM, Skepsikyma wrote:
At 3/14/2015 10:26:54 AM, twocupcakes wrote:
If you get your morality from religion you are a psychopath. Good people develop a consciousness and empathy. They know it is wrong to steal, assault or insult people because it causes others pain and is not fair to them.

If someone learns what is right or wrong from reading a text they are a psychopath. Good people do not do good because that is what the read in a book or that is what they are "told" to do, they do it because they intrinsically know that it is good. Psychopaths have a man in their head telling them what to do. For example, the guy in the Bible who was ready to kill his son because God said so is a psychopath.

I'm pretty sure you have no idea what the word psychopath means.

Maybe I don't. But, I think my point is pretty clear.

I use psychopath to mean someone who is capable of doing inhumane things like killing people because of a voice in their head.

Most religious people don't claim to hear God talk back. In fact, in Islam one of the basic tenets is that God's revelation to Muhammad was the final one (Khatam an-Nabiyyin, or the Seal of the Prophets), so to claim to hear God's voice (to receive a new revelation) would be tantamount to leaving Islam by violating a basic tenet. Even most Christians don't make that claim.

My point is the same whether Christians read a text to get morality or God tells them. Good people get morality from their their conscience/reasoning/empathy. They do not go to read a book on what is right and wrong. They intrinsically know.

In fact, people who read a religious text worse then people who get morality from "god tells them". I suspect that most people who claim to hear God are just listening to their own conscience.
twocupcakes
Posts: 2,750
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3/15/2015 9:54:34 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 3/14/2015 11:43:37 AM, Skepsikyma wrote:
At 3/14/2015 11:31:17 AM, twocupcakes wrote:
At 3/14/2015 10:33:18 AM, Skepsikyma wrote:
At 3/14/2015 10:26:54 AM, twocupcakes wrote:
If you get your morality from religion you are a psychopath. Good people develop a consciousness and empathy. They know it is wrong to steal, assault or insult people because it causes others pain and is not fair to them.

If someone learns what is right or wrong from reading a text they are a psychopath. Good people do not do good because that is what the read in a book or that is what they are "told" to do, they do it because they intrinsically know that it is good. Psychopaths have a man in their head telling them what to do. For example, the guy in the Bible who was ready to kill his son because God said so is a psychopath.

I'm pretty sure you have no idea what the word psychopath means.

Maybe I don't. But, I think my point is pretty clear.

I use psychopath to mean someone who is capable of doing inhumane things like killing people because of a voice in their head.

And killing people is sometimes permitted my book any way, so it's not that big of a deal to me that religious people kill some people, nor do I attribute all such killings solely to religion. You can't make an omelet without breaking a few eggs.

It is so fvcked up that someone would read a text to learn what is right or wrong? What does your conscience permit?
RoderickSpode
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3/15/2015 11:14:42 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 3/14/2015 10:26:54 AM, twocupcakes wrote:
If you get your morality from religion you are a psychopath. Good people develop a consciousness and empathy. They know it is wrong to steal, assault or insult people because it causes others pain and is not fair to them.

If someone learns what is right or wrong from reading a text they are a psychopath. Good people do not do good because that is what the read in a book or that is what they are "told" to do, they do it because they intrinsically know that it is good. Psychopaths have a man in their head telling them what to do. For example, the guy in the Bible who was ready to kill his son because God said so is a psychopath.
Jesus actually referenced man's general goodness apart from what scripture states. The idea of not killing, not stealing, being good to one's children did not bother those who heard Jesus speak. What probably bothered many was the idea of turning one's cheek, refusing to look at another person with sexual lust, etc.
Ragnar
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3/15/2015 11:18:43 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 3/15/2015 9:53:02 AM, twocupcakes wrote:
In fact, people who read a religious text worse then people who get morality from "god tells them". I suspect that most people who claim to hear God are just listening to their own conscience.

Which they may have developed from empathy for others, such as not wanting to cause them pain, as well as a base sense of fairness.
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PureX
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3/15/2015 11:30:31 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 3/14/2015 10:33:18 AM, Skepsikyma wrote:
At 3/14/2015 10:26:54 AM, twocupcakes wrote:
If you get your morality from religion you are a psychopath. Good people develop a consciousness and empathy. They know it is wrong to steal, assault or insult people because it causes others pain and is not fair to them.

If someone learns what is right or wrong from reading a text they are a psychopath. Good people do not do good because that is what the read in a book or that is what they are "told" to do, they do it because they intrinsically know that it is good. Psychopaths have a man in their head telling them what to do. For example, the guy in the Bible who was ready to kill his son because God said so is a psychopath.

I'm pretty sure you have no idea what the word psychopath means.

I agree. I think the poster may have mean 'sociopath', rather than psychopath. But even then I don't agree with the basic premise.

I don't think people "get their morality" from anywhere. I think they develop it through their experience of life. And that includes all sorts of influencing factors, even internal genetic proclivities.

How this relates to religion, I think is that people choose the (religious, political, or otherwise) ideologies that they feel resonates with the moral imperatives and proclivities that they have already developed. So that angry people choose to believe in an angry God. Lonely people choose to believe God is their friend. Resentful people choose to believe that God will punish all those who crossed them. And so on and so on.

Religion is not the cause of our moral stance, but the result.
Skepsikyma
Posts: 8,286
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3/15/2015 1:17:10 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 3/15/2015 11:30:31 AM, PureX wrote:
At 3/14/2015 10:33:18 AM, Skepsikyma wrote:
At 3/14/2015 10:26:54 AM, twocupcakes wrote:
If you get your morality from religion you are a psychopath. Good people develop a consciousness and empathy. They know it is wrong to steal, assault or insult people because it causes others pain and is not fair to them.

If someone learns what is right or wrong from reading a text they are a psychopath. Good people do not do good because that is what the read in a book or that is what they are "told" to do, they do it because they intrinsically know that it is good. Psychopaths have a man in their head telling them what to do. For example, the guy in the Bible who was ready to kill his son because God said so is a psychopath.

I'm pretty sure you have no idea what the word psychopath means.

I agree. I think the poster may have mean 'sociopath', rather than psychopath. But even then I don't agree with the basic premise.

I don't think people "get their morality" from anywhere. I think they develop it through their experience of life. And that includes all sorts of influencing factors, even internal genetic proclivities.

How this relates to religion, I think is that people choose the (religious, political, or otherwise) ideologies that they feel resonates with the moral imperatives and proclivities that they have already developed. So that angry people choose to believe in an angry God. Lonely people choose to believe God is their friend. Resentful people choose to believe that God will punish all those who crossed them. And so on and so on.

Religion is not the cause of our moral stance, but the result.

Fantastic summation. In fact, I see the casting of religion as an evil to be combated by some new atheists to be a starkly religious worldview. It dispenses with the nuances of both human nature and history in favor of a fantasy view which casts them as the 'heroes' of a dualistic battle between primal superstition and impending enlightenment.
"The Collectivist experiment is thoroughly suited (in appearance at least) to the Capitalist society which it proposes to replace. It works with the existing machinery of Capitalism, talks and thinks in the existing terms of Capitalism, appeals to just those appetites which Capitalism has aroused, and ridicules as fantastic and unheard-of just those things in society the memory of which Capitalism has killed among men wherever the blight of it has spread."
- Hilaire Belloc -
Skepsikyma
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3/15/2015 1:24:37 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 3/15/2015 9:53:02 AM, twocupcakes wrote:
At 3/14/2015 11:41:03 AM, Skepsikyma wrote:
At 3/14/2015 11:31:17 AM, twocupcakes wrote:
At 3/14/2015 10:33:18 AM, Skepsikyma wrote:
At 3/14/2015 10:26:54 AM, twocupcakes wrote:
If you get your morality from religion you are a psychopath. Good people develop a consciousness and empathy. They know it is wrong to steal, assault or insult people because it causes others pain and is not fair to them.

If someone learns what is right or wrong from reading a text they are a psychopath. Good people do not do good because that is what the read in a book or that is what they are "told" to do, they do it because they intrinsically know that it is good. Psychopaths have a man in their head telling them what to do. For example, the guy in the Bible who was ready to kill his son because God said so is a psychopath.

I'm pretty sure you have no idea what the word psychopath means.

Maybe I don't. But, I think my point is pretty clear.

I use psychopath to mean someone who is capable of doing inhumane things like killing people because of a voice in their head.

Most religious people don't claim to hear God talk back. In fact, in Islam one of the basic tenets is that God's revelation to Muhammad was the final one (Khatam an-Nabiyyin, or the Seal of the Prophets), so to claim to hear God's voice (to receive a new revelation) would be tantamount to leaving Islam by violating a basic tenet. Even most Christians don't make that claim.

My point is the same whether Christians read a text to get morality or God tells them. Good people get morality from their their conscience/reasoning/empathy. They do not go to read a book on what is right and wrong. They intrinsically know.

Lol, no they don't. If so, history would look a LOT different. Your moral views are a result of millennia of societal development, which shaped you during your upbringing. From the individual perspective, beliefs inculcated through pervasive societal conditioning and instinct are difficult to distinguish from one another. In many other societies, and in your own society's history, those social conditioners were distinctly religious, and the current ones to which you have been subjected (humanism) are vestiges of religious morality, not something which supplants them.

And empathy is a force of social binding, is never universal, and actual enables othering and a lot of other nasty social phenomena at the root of a lot of suffering over the ages. I see it as a horrible basis for morality.

In fact, people who read a religious text worse then people who get morality from "god tells them". I suspect that most people who claim to hear God are just listening to their own conscience.

PureX covered this quite well already.
"The Collectivist experiment is thoroughly suited (in appearance at least) to the Capitalist society which it proposes to replace. It works with the existing machinery of Capitalism, talks and thinks in the existing terms of Capitalism, appeals to just those appetites which Capitalism has aroused, and ridicules as fantastic and unheard-of just those things in society the memory of which Capitalism has killed among men wherever the blight of it has spread."
- Hilaire Belloc -
Skepsikyma
Posts: 8,286
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3/15/2015 1:29:54 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 3/15/2015 9:54:34 AM, twocupcakes wrote:
At 3/14/2015 11:43:37 AM, Skepsikyma wrote:
At 3/14/2015 11:31:17 AM, twocupcakes wrote:
At 3/14/2015 10:33:18 AM, Skepsikyma wrote:
At 3/14/2015 10:26:54 AM, twocupcakes wrote:
If you get your morality from religion you are a psychopath. Good people develop a consciousness and empathy. They know it is wrong to steal, assault or insult people because it causes others pain and is not fair to them.

If someone learns what is right or wrong from reading a text they are a psychopath. Good people do not do good because that is what the read in a book or that is what they are "told" to do, they do it because they intrinsically know that it is good. Psychopaths have a man in their head telling them what to do. For example, the guy in the Bible who was ready to kill his son because God said so is a psychopath.

I'm pretty sure you have no idea what the word psychopath means.

Maybe I don't. But, I think my point is pretty clear.

I use psychopath to mean someone who is capable of doing inhumane things like killing people because of a voice in their head.

And killing people is sometimes permitted my book any way, so it's not that big of a deal to me that religious people kill some people, nor do I attribute all such killings solely to religion. You can't make an omelet without breaking a few eggs.

It is so fvcked up that someone would read a text to learn what is right or wrong? What does your conscience permit?

I've tried to squash my conscience as much as possible, as it's unreliable. As Camus puts it, "The evil that is in the world almost always comes of ignorance, and good intentions may do as much harm as malevolence if they lack understanding." Understanding the world is the most important moral imperative which any person faces, as without clarity, morality is useless. Following the 'conscience' which has been foisted upon you by society is to stumble through life blindly.

My point on death is that any society requires death to function. As I've said, can't make an omelet without breaking a few eggs.
"The Collectivist experiment is thoroughly suited (in appearance at least) to the Capitalist society which it proposes to replace. It works with the existing machinery of Capitalism, talks and thinks in the existing terms of Capitalism, appeals to just those appetites which Capitalism has aroused, and ridicules as fantastic and unheard-of just those things in society the memory of which Capitalism has killed among men wherever the blight of it has spread."
- Hilaire Belloc -
twocupcakes
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3/15/2015 2:25:57 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 3/15/2015 11:18:43 AM, Ragnar wrote:
At 3/15/2015 9:53:02 AM, twocupcakes wrote:
In fact, people who read a religious text worse then people who get morality from "god tells them". I suspect that most people who claim to hear God are just listening to their own conscience.

Which they may have developed from empathy for others, such as not wanting to cause them pain, as well as a base sense of fairness.

I agree. I think many people who claim to hear God are just listening to their own conscience.
twocupcakes
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3/15/2015 2:32:28 PM
Posted: 1 year ago

Lol, no they don't. If so, history would look a LOT different. Your moral views are a result of millennia of societal development, which shaped you during your upbringing. From the individual perspective, beliefs inculcated through pervasive societal conditioning and instinct are difficult to distinguish from one another. In many other societies, and in your own society's history, those social conditioners were distinctly religious, and the current ones to which you have been subjected (humanism) are vestiges of religious morality, not something which supplants them.

And empathy is a force of social binding, is never universal, and actual enables othering and a lot of other nasty social phenomena at the root of a lot of suffering over the ages. I see it as a horrible basis for morality.


PureX covered this quite well already.

You say that morality is developing with society, yet religious texts stay the same.I'd say that thisis because most people get morality from their conscience and empathy rather than religious texts. However, people that look read a rule from a book for moral choices are sociopaths (or whatever the correct word is for evilish guy)
twocupcakes
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3/15/2015 2:42:28 PM
Posted: 1 year ago

I agree. I think the poster may have mean 'sociopath', rather than psychopath. But even then I don't agree with the basic premise.

I don't think people "get their morality" from anywhere. I think they develop it through their experience of life. And that includes all sorts of influencing factors, even internal genetic proclivities.

How this relates to religion, I think is that people choose the (religious, political, or otherwise) ideologies that they feel resonates with the moral imperatives and proclivities that they have already developed. So that angry people choose to believe in an angry God. Lonely people choose to believe God is their friend. Resentful people choose to believe that God will punish all those who crossed them. And so on and so on.

Religion is not the cause of our moral stance, but the result.

Maybe I got the word "psychopath" (sociopath instead?) wrong, but my point is the same.

I do not think most people get their morality from religious text. I agree with you in general on how people get their morality. I just am arguing that if someone does get their morality from reading a text that they are a sociapath
PureX
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3/15/2015 3:44:37 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 3/15/2015 2:42:28 PM, twocupcakes wrote:

Maybe I got the word "psychopath" (sociopath instead?) wrong, but my point is the same.

I do not think most people get their morality from religious text. I agree with you in general on how people get their morality. I just am arguing that if someone does get their morality from reading a text that they are a sociopath

Well, I think it's true that the religions we grow up with certainly inform our moral choices. I suppose it must also be true that a sociopath (a person lacking the capacity for empathy) would have difficulty grasping the emotional necessity for morality-based behavior. But I rather doubt that there is a great number of sociopaths out there who adhere to religious moral codes because they are unable to grasp morality without them. I would think even a sociopath could at least grasp morality in principal, even if not on a personal level.

Instead, I think what happens with a lot of the more severe sociopaths is that they become fascinated by the suffering of others because they are so unable to empathize with it, themselves. They know they are lacking something (empathy) that others feel when they see someone suffering, but they can't feel it, themselves. And they become obsessed with what they cannot feel. It's why severe sociopaths have a tendency to begin torturing animals at a young age, and sometimes later graduate to torturing and killing other human beings. Most serial killers are severe sociopaths. They torture and kill because they are fascinated with the suffering of others, and with the power they feel inflicting that suffering, instead of feeling empathy.

But all this is quite rare " thank God!
twocupcakes
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3/15/2015 4:13:23 PM
Posted: 1 year ago


Well, I think it's true that the religions we grow up with certainly inform our moral choices. I suppose it must also be true that a sociopath (a person lacking the capacity for empathy) would have difficulty grasping the emotional necessity for morality-based behavior. But I rather doubt that there is a great number of sociopaths out there who adhere to religious moral codes because they are unable to grasp morality without them. I would think even a sociopath could at least grasp morality in principal, even if not on a personal level.

I agree. I do not think that there are many people out there that adhere to religious moral codes because they are unable to grasp morality without them.I never said that there was. I was just arguing that if someone goes to religious text rules to get morality they are a sociopath/fvcked up people.

Instead, I think what happens with a lot of the more severe sociopaths is that they become fascinated by the suffering of others because they are so unable to empathize with it, themselves. They know they are lacking something (empathy) that others feel when they see someone suffering, but they can't feel it, themselves. And they become obsessed with what they cannot feel. It's why severe sociopaths have a tendency to begin torturing animals at a young age, and sometimes later graduate to torturing and killing other human beings. Most serial killers are severe sociopaths. They torture and kill because they are fascinated with the suffering of others, and with the power they feel inflicting that suffering, instead of feeling empathy.

But all this is quite rare " thank God!
Skepsikyma
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3/15/2015 4:20:03 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 3/15/2015 2:32:28 PM, twocupcakes wrote:

Lol, no they don't. If so, history would look a LOT different. Your moral views are a result of millennia of societal development, which shaped you during your upbringing. From the individual perspective, beliefs inculcated through pervasive societal conditioning and instinct are difficult to distinguish from one another. In many other societies, and in your own society's history, those social conditioners were distinctly religious, and the current ones to which you have been subjected (humanism) are vestiges of religious morality, not something which supplants them.

And empathy is a force of social binding, is never universal, and actual enables othering and a lot of other nasty social phenomena at the root of a lot of suffering over the ages. I see it as a horrible basis for morality.


PureX covered this quite well already.

You say that morality is developing with society, yet religious texts stay the same.I'd say that thisis because most people get morality from their conscience and empathy rather than religious texts. However, people that look read a rule from a book for moral choices are sociopaths (or whatever the correct word is for evilish guy)

If there were people who actually took their moral beliefs from religious texts, then moral beliefs among the religious, or at least the orthodox religious, would be identical or at least largely uniform. That isn't the case, and never has been the case. PureX is correct that morality comes before religion, that people choose those rules to follow which fit their preexisting moral code. This is why the interactions between culture and religion have created new sects all over the world.

Also, those people who come closest to following such rules (Orthodox Jews, the Amish, Anabaptists, Catholic and Buddhist Monks and Nuns) hardly come into sociopath territory. These groups actually have extremely tight-knit communities and largely remove themselves from worldly affairs. Also, since children are often brought up into this lifestyle from infancy, in the case of Orthodox Jews, Anabaptists, and the Amish, you'd have to argue that these sort of cohesive, religious rule-based groups have some sort of genetic defect which causes them to be devoid of a 'conscience'.
"The Collectivist experiment is thoroughly suited (in appearance at least) to the Capitalist society which it proposes to replace. It works with the existing machinery of Capitalism, talks and thinks in the existing terms of Capitalism, appeals to just those appetites which Capitalism has aroused, and ridicules as fantastic and unheard-of just those things in society the memory of which Capitalism has killed among men wherever the blight of it has spread."
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ChristianPunk
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3/15/2015 4:25:46 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 3/14/2015 10:26:54 AM, twocupcakes wrote:
If you get your morality from religion you are a psychopath. Good people develop a consciousness and empathy. They know it is wrong to steal, assault or insult people because it causes others pain and is not fair to them.

If someone learns what is right or wrong from reading a text they are a psychopath. Good people do not do good because that is what the read in a book or that is what they are "told" to do, they do it because they intrinsically know that it is good. Psychopaths have a man in their head telling them what to do. For example, the guy in the Bible who was ready to kill his son because God said so is a psychopath.
twocupcakes
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3/15/2015 5:40:30 PM
Posted: 1 year ago

If there were people who actually took their moral beliefs from religious texts, then moral beliefs among the religious, or at least the orthodox religious, would be identical or at least largely uniform. That isn't the case, and never has been the case. PureX is correct that morality comes before religion, that people choose those rules to follow which fit their preexisting moral code. This is why the interactions between culture and religion have created new sects all over the world.

I agree, I do not think many people take moral beliefs from religious texts. I never have argued that people did get their morality from religious texts. I do not mind the discussion going this way. But, I just want to be clear for people that did not read the whole thread. I never claimed that people get morality from religious texts.

Also, those people who come closest to following such rules (Orthodox Jews, the Amish, Anabaptists, Catholic and Buddhist Monks and Nuns) hardly come into sociopath territory. These groups actually have extremely tight-knit communities and largely remove themselves from worldly affairs. Also, since children are often brought up into this lifestyle from infancy, in the case of Orthodox Jews, Anabaptists, and the Amish, you'd have to argue that these sort of cohesive, religious rule-based groups have some sort of genetic defect which causes them to be devoid of a 'conscience'.
PureX
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3/15/2015 8:10:12 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 3/15/2015 4:13:23 PM, twocupcakes wrote:
I do not think that there are many people out there that adhere to religious moral codes because they are unable to grasp morality without them.I never said that there was. I was just arguing that if someone goes to religious text rules to get morality they are a sociopath/fvcked up people.

Sadly, I think there are a lot of people who have been raised not to trust their own minds and inclinations. They were raised by authoritarians, to worship obedience. Those are the folks who have to have the Bible tell them what to think all the time, and how to behave. I don't think they're sociopaths, though. I just think they've been abused by their caretakers while growing up.
Ragnar
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3/18/2015 11:23:26 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 3/15/2015 2:25:57 PM, twocupcakes wrote:
At 3/15/2015 11:18:43 AM, Ragnar wrote:
At 3/15/2015 9:53:02 AM, twocupcakes wrote:
In fact, people who read a religious text worse then people who get morality from "god tells them". I suspect that most people who claim to hear God are just listening to their own conscience.

Which they may have developed from empathy for others, such as not wanting to cause them pain, as well as a base sense of fairness.

I agree. I think many people who claim to hear God are just listening to their own conscience.

You do see the problem of calling them psychopaths for that right?
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